Newbie 1677 (Game Over)

[hawkleader3]

What's up guys. I'm hawkleader3 but I could go by hawk. Maybe I can't unless this guy is done. Good luck to you all.

VOTE: jachawk

[hawkleader3]

Ok, should we get to work on finding the scum now we've all made random votes.

Unvote

The point of RVS usually leads to some type of pressure. Seeing how other players react to wagons on them at the start of game is generally how you tell if someone is town or scum. The quickness and reasons for people jumping on and off these one or two wagons also gives us good reads. Then it becomes reads and counter reads and reactions and so forth, so not voting doesn't help this cause, but I'll just assume you did this because you don't want any kind of questioning for your votes, because it leads to reactions and if you, scum, do not imitate a town reaction correctly, it's off to the block you go. This seems like a swiss cheese reason for voting, but it's enough to switch my vote in page two of the game

VOTE: tojam2

[hawkleader3]

@tojam2: you have not given a response to my vote on you. Sure most of us were in RVS, but I'm concerned as to why my vote got no attention at all. A simple rolling-eyed emoticon would've sufficed in this situation. Now tojam2, with you at L-1, it is time for a claim

NO OTHER PLAYERS NEED TO VOTE TOJAM2 UNTIL A CONSENSUS IS MADE FIRST! Hammering quickly is bad for the hammerer because it looks scummy, bad for tojam2 because he will be dead, and if he flips town, it is bad for the town. THE ONLY PERSON WHO BENEFITS BY HAMMERING QUICKLY IS SCUM so no quick hammers please.

I wish more people were less experienced at mafiascum. I was really in a teaching kind of mood this game.

[hawkleader3]

Whoops, I didn't see the unvote, but the information above is still beneficial to newbies

[hawkleader3]

Him getting to L-1 this early isn't beneficial to town, and an opertunistic Mafia might just to hammer him off.

Him just being at L-1, doesn't mean he should just claim. He needs to make a defense and only claim at the last moment before the final hammer. It was something the IC said earlier in his introduction post.

This strikes me as odd, as it was clearly spoke about earlier on the day. This is could be Mafia fishing for PRs.

Hawkleader is leaning scummier and I really didn't like that post.

I just thought he posted basic rules and read the first few sentences. Once I realized it was directed at newbies, I stopped reading. I must have been overconfident thinking I don't need help. I don't think this mistake could be seen as scummy, and you not voting shows that. Mochaman on the other hand agrees with what you say, but puts a vote on the back end of it. Does he know something about tojam2 and is trying to move the wagon off him? His vote to put him at L-1 seems contradictory if they were a scum team unless he knew someone would unvote or ask to claim. I would love to assume they are a scum team, but it isn't that easy. Tojam2 still looks scummy until proven otherwise, so my vote shall not change

[hawkleader3]

Prod dodge and I just asked for a claim when I thought someone was at L-1. That has been the procedure in all my other games, but I will I will admit the only person to get L-1 that quickly was me in my last game. And I did claim. That may have been because the suspicions casted on me were way more concrete than the ones on tojam2

[hawkleader3]

Whoops, I thought I deleted the vote and was going to follow up with my voting post on hawkleader instead. -.-

UNVOTE:

I think that hawkleader is making a lot of newbie mistakes that I would expect from someone who's played a lot of games and is an SE. It just feels really weird.

VOTE: hawkleader

It's my second game back from a long leave of absence. Fifth game overall I believe. I had my first game which was awesome, second game was a perfect win for town, third game I was scum and did terrible, left, the game I played before this one was where I got night killed one the first night, so I don't want you to perceive me as someone who isn't capable of making some newbie mistakes. I'm not saying these mistakes should be tolerated, but just don't expect some well-developed gameplay from me. "It just feels really weird" is a gut feeling and gut feelings on day 1 are what determine most votes, but usually it isn't strictly gut feeling

I'm going to go with hawkleader for now. Very few posts and none have seemed like town to me. Plus there's the potential role-fishing on Tojam.

VOTE: hawkleader3

My post count is low indeed with school starting back up, but I try not to make it seem too apparent with the RL excuses. It shouldn't be an excuse and I will manage my time more wisely to post more on this site in the future. In fact, ISOs on everyone should be READ by tonight. Hopefully posted by tomorrow morning.

What defines a post as not seeming town? I think any post that isn't seen as scummy is town, so if that's what you are trying to say, it would be clearer if it was written as "every post by hawkleader3 seems scummy to me" so I can ask the obvious follow-up question "How?".

hawkleader3 -
Part of my read on him is because he's a SE. He was eager to go after tojam2 in #30

@tojam2: you have not given a response to my vote on you. Sure most of us were in RVS, but I'm concerned as to why my vote got no attention at all. A simple rolling-eyed emoticon would've sufficed in this situation. Now tojam2, with you at L-1, it is time for a claim

NO OTHER PLAYERS NEED TO VOTE TOJAM2 UNTIL A CONSENSUS IS MADE FIRST! Hammering quickly is bad for the hammerer because it looks scummy, bad for tojam2 because he will be dead, and if he flips town, it is bad for the town. THE ONLY PERSON WHO BENEFITS BY HAMMERING QUICKLY IS SCUM so no quick hammers please.

I wish more people were less experienced at mafiascum. I was really in a teaching kind of mood this game.

Am I the only one that thinks that this was ridiculously opportunistic?

I thought it was opportunistic of me to make sure nobody lynched tojam2 without knowing he was at L-1. I just happened to get online at that time, yes. Very

An SE, asking for a claim in the middle of the third page, when not everyone has even posted yet.

SE is a technical term, but I understand that status comes with some responsibility. No more complaining about being an SE. I swear lol.

And wouldn't the fact that someone is at L-1 in the middle of the third page when not everyone has posted yet be strange in the same sense? Maybe the fact that my one post 30 is a pinpoint target for how weird this situation was when him getting to L-1 could have been the work of some very convincing mafia members and it goes unseen, but now I'm shooting in the dark. Still, keep an eye out on that.

Scum

I see hawkleader leaning towards town at this point. Possibly null. I'll have to do an ISO

Why were you so hasty to get a claim from tojam2 without considering the possibility of others unvoting?

There's two ways I read this question, so I'll answer it both ways in one response. Hopefully.

If I don't make that post and a PR gets lynched, I feel guilty for not saying anything.

If I make the post and people say "Woah chill out. We aren't going to lynch him", then I am just seen as overcautious and apparently scummy. I'm okay dying if it means a power role doesn't get lynched, but of course. I would love to lynch scum like everyone else.

If I don't make that post and people unvote, I say "phew. Close one"

If I make the post and he claims whatever he claims, I assess his claim and see if he is scum or not.

I would rather be too safe when it comes to that post to make sure we all know who is potentially being lynched than not being safe and some newbie quickhammers him. I had not considered other more experienced players seeing this mistake like I did and unvoting because of it. It was a case of tunnel vision I guess. The thought of others unvoting was not significant enough for me not take action.

I know this is WIFOM, but it doesn't seem like I would make my note of no quick hammering so obvious if I wanted there to be some newbie quickhammer mistake. (Then comes the argument "Well then wouldn't scum want to do that to act as town" which turns to "well maybe town did it anyway knowing he would look scummy for doing it, meaning he is telling the truth" and then "Wouldn't that be what scum wants you to think" and for those new to MafiaScum, that is WIFOM)

Now I know this argument goes right out the window if I was an IC as that is bending the rules and I claimed to be in a "teaching mood" (I'm not sure if I put that in my posts before, but at the time, I was thinking about it), but still. Making it clear to not mislynch until he claims seems weird. Those who think I did so just to try to lynch a PR role on day 1 and I'm a very ambitious scum member, you may choose to believe that.

If anyone has any questions with my responses due to contradictions or lack of clarity, please let me know.

[hawkleader3]

My claim is

vanilla townie

, a claim that should've been expected since I said in one of my posts that I wasn't a power role. Or the way I made it come off. I'm also not scum, so this is my claim. I didn't get to talk much in this game due to the busy schedule, but my defense is that people are voting me for role-fishing for tojam2 early into a game which I claimed was because I didn't know or think about people retracting their votes. The lurking was RL getting in the way. Someone voted me because "Idk" which is fine because it's D-1 and someone has to get lynched. I hope you guys find scum in your endeavors and I guess I'll end with who I think is scum. Mochaman and tojam are scum and they easily flipped you guys into believing that asking for a claim too early is scummy in every way and mocha turned me into easy lynch bait whole tojam waited until the wagon was at L-2 before he jumped on. Perfect timing.

[hawkleader3]

Moachamian, if I flip scum, who's my partner?

[hawkleader3]

Well I just figured you thought I was confirmed Mafia. It would be the next logical step

[hawkleader3]

Time for a seriously considered vote based on everyone's evidence, the 2 of the 3 players I trust (and if I vote wrong and I'm scum that means only 1 of them is scum) have voted hawkleader so...

Vote:hawkleader3

hmm, I dig this wagon, and I think you are at L-1. It's time for a claim, hawk.

Proof that tojam's vote put me at L-1

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: Mochaman

because it seems like out of my two scum reads, Mochaman could be the one closest to being lynched today because the only two votes on tojam2 are me and jachawk who I don't think has participated in a while. Maybe he has no profile picture and I'm confusing his posts with tojam2s. I have no clue.

[hawkleader3]

I think mochaman has voted tojam to counter my argument that he is partnered with tojam, but it isn't going to work

PhantomColbat, what do you mean when you say "intent to hammer" when at the time you posted it, nobody was at L-1

[hawkleader3]

Intent to hammer Lia if no claim is made soon. Should we give any time limit for her? I'll give her 12 hours at least, but I want an opinion from others on this

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: tojam2 for being the scummiest looking player on the Lia wagon

[hawkleader3]

Prod dodge, was kind of expecting hawkleader to defend himself or attack me by now though.

Your vote on me is just saying I look scummy. The difference between being scummy and being on the lia wagon and being scummy and not on the wagon is that Lia is town and any opportunity to lynch town on day 1 should be taken advantage of by scum. Scum wants town lynched mistakenly as much as possible. That's why those who were on the Lia have a better chance of being scum in my mind than those not on the wagon, but then this could turn to WIFOM again

@Mochaman the answer to this question is irrelevant because I'm not voting for you because of that reason, and me telling you this reason does not help the scum hunting anymore, so I chose to ignore it until you forgot about it and moved on to more important tasks. Which you had for a period of time. I was wondering if light suspicion casted on you would affect your scum hunting in any way if I ignored you.

[hawkleader3]

@ratsu I think applying pressure for the sake of applying it is only effective during a very inactive scum game or the beginning of eveey scum game

[hawkleader3]

@Mochaman your two scum subjects are at L-2. Are you still deciding which one to vote on or are you waiting on purpose for a claim?

[hawkleader3]

THIS PUTS TOJAM2 AT L-1

[hawkleader3]

mykonian: null
Natsu: leaning town
tojam2: Scum
jachawk: leaning scum
Ruku: leaning town
Mochaman: leaning scum