Newbie 1717: Newbies Through the Looking Glass (Game Over)

[Simoyd]

Hello

[Simoyd]

I had to eat my shawarma. It's in my stomach now

[Simoyd]

If you don't eat shawarma right now I'm voting you

[Simoyd]

still trying to understand the 2nd half of page two and forward... sorry. Right now I don't like grace, but not enough to add a vote.... Still thinking

[Simoyd]

I don't like Lycanfire either.

[Simoyd]

IV is setting up multiple stories to justify his meta difference

[Simoyd]

Mizzy made a similar post, the third to do so.

Why not Meepo and Mizzy? Not Meepo because he is responding to pressure. That's just the way he chose to respond, and I don't disagree with the response on its own. IV had no meat in his post and I am hungry. Mizzy offered a lot more and seems more in character than IV is.

@Lycanfire: I'm not sure if I'm reading this right. Can you clarify? Are you saying three people made posts leading the conversation, then you eliminated two through process of elimination? If not, what was Mizzy the third to do? I've read back in the thread and I'm totally lost. Maybe I'm stoopid

[Simoyd]

I am pretty sure

Deferring your certainty until it matters? Setting the stage for future slips?

[Simoyd]

there's not a whole lot of seriousness other than this. Not sure what else to ask.... I'm liking Grace and Meepo for scum right now... Meepo started it so...

VOTE: Meepo

I'm off to play with my oculus. I'll be back later tonight

[Simoyd]

I still read a scum lean on meepo. maybe I'm stoopid

[Simoyd]

Pants98: Do you have anything more to add other than an RVS vote?

[Simoyd]

I don't like that Mizzytastic is justifying her vote based on waiting for someone else for her to sheep (81). I think town would start a wagon and wait to see who sheeps instead. Is that playstyle/NAI?

[Simoyd]

I take everything seriously. Even a joke has a motivation behind it. I didn't take his words seriously, but I think his motivation for the joke is up for debate. Mizzytastic, what were you more afraid of: the possibility that your opinion wouldn't be popular, or the possibility that you might be attacking town?

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Accountant

I consistently don't like the direction of your reads. I think you can only hide behind reaction testing for so long... Still a long time left for today so things might change, but you've definitely made my top scum read.

[Simoyd]

I've never done a single reaction test this entire game

Oof, I'm going to hold you to that.

Okay, lemme post a wall on your ISO. I'm at work right now sorry so I can't spend a bunch of time putting it together. I'll do it first thing when I get home around 5pm EST. Sorry :S.

And yes I meet my promises, unlike everyone else I've seen who says shit like this.....

[Simoyd]

rofl! yes!

[Simoyd]

Town
Meepo

People please don`t voice your town reads so obviously just yet, because it will be easier to determine for scum who to kill during the night.

This seems pretty town motivated from Meepo.

[Simoyd]

Accountant:

Post 9 looks like you might be bussing your partner, innocentvillager. You certainly don't think this is enough to wrap up the game. If not bussing, then is this a reaction test?

In post 12 through 26 you're tunneling really hard on Grace. I feel that post 13 and at the very latest post 16 clearly show her true colors, and continuing to tunnel seems to have yielded very little, if any value. I just get the impression that your motivation to tunnel was to keep up the bussing facade and not to find scum like town would.

How is post 76 not a reaction test? Why would town OMGUS (post 80)?

post 78 you flip around and write a pretty big section dedicated to not only defending innocentvillager, but trying to make people feel stupid for reading him badly. Why defend? Didn't he already basically say everything you said already, other than making other people feel stupid? And making people feel stupid like that isn't a reaction test how?

In the same post you also attack Mizzy, saying her post 30 is bad when 80% of it basically just looks like parroting of your own opinion earlier in the game, other than attacking your buddy innocentvillager. How is anyone expected to strike the heart of someone at this point? Why is jabbing and poking any different than what RC has done? Why no mention of that being bad for RC? So again, what is this then... reaction test? How do you differentiate between Mizzy appearing to look active and actually looking active at this point in the game?

For post 89 I think you're right and are trying to get RC to help you drive the town in the wrong direction. Since when does town ever ask someone to sheep them? AGAIN is this a reaction test? What is this? Why did you say this?

post 90: again defending innocentvillager. This seems to be a reoccuring theme...

post 98: for all the seriousness you've been portraying why say this? Maybe I'm missing something here. @Lycanfire: was post 99 serious?

post 103: Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town. Attacking mizzie again for no good reason... I think the meepo wagon has really bottomed out and there's not really anything to push. This is besides the fact that I was voting meepo and not pushing either, but you like me?

post 105: I would like to see a detailed explaination on why you think that post seems nowbie townie and meaningful... I think IV is your buddy. You immidiatly respond positivly and defend him again in 107 the moment he's under fire... What is that!

[Simoyd]

oh I forgot to put:

in b4 newb ergo wrong

[Simoyd]

oh shit I missed that in 92 my bad :S

[Simoyd]

I'd like to hear more from RC and Pants. Nothing really to go on.

[Simoyd]

Note that Accountant hasn't said anything to me.

What's there to say? You basically have one unquantified read to analyse and he already OMGUS'd it... Not sure what response you'd expect?

[Simoyd]

It certainly was enough to wrap up the game if Meepo had been serious.

Do you really believe that?

[Simoyd]

Please explain how my post made people feel stupid.

ok...

currently I'm convinced that anyone who reads him anything but null is:
1) Scum making up a read
2) Misguided town who feels they have to have a strong read on everyone
3) Confused

Any talk of InnocentVillager at this point is a distraction and if you're town you should focus on the people that matter.

What I mostly meant was #2 and #3 which are straight up personal attacks on anyone who was considering IV. The rest I've quoted here is of the same tone.

You either think it's a scum read, or you think it's NAI. This stuff you said is only to manipulate. Now everyone has to see if they read a town or scum motivation from that manipulation.

[Simoyd]

I don't expect Mizzy to strike at the heart of anyone. If she doesn't have something real to scumhunt, she be honest and say that she can't find any openings to question rather than trying to look good by jabbing aimlessly.

I'm really trying to understand your read on Mizzy...

Would you prefer for her to just say "I can't find any opening to question" every 48 hours instead of at least trying to question and analyse? Wouldn't activity from her be good for town, regardless if she's scum or not, instead of making her feel bad about her direction and post less?

I think it would be accurate to quantify almost everything that happened before post 30 as "jabbing aimlessly", including your posts. I think everything I did before post 112 was "jabbing aimlessly" trying to hit something. Can you explain to me why you think this is a scum tell?

[Simoyd]

It makes no sense to characterize this as a desperate move.

Do you feel like you're under pressure right now?

[Simoyd]

if a town member is confident they've found a good player to vote, they should want the rest of the town to vote with them.

I think the "how" is questionable. You chose the "ask someone directly to sheep me" route. I'm concerned with what motivated you to choose that.

[Simoyd]

Why do you think that me defending IV means that we both have to be scum together?

You seem to be doing it an unusually high amount, and your defense has no substance other than the defense he had already said, with a few personal attacks on top. I don't think it's certainly enough to wrap up the game, but I think it's unusual and I wonder about the motivation behind it.

All town would defend another player who they feel to be unfairly attacked

I wouldn't... I would attack the person who attacked my town read. Does that mean you think I'm scum?

[Simoyd]

How else would I get RC to vote with me?

I'm not sure one exists, but did you really expect to yield any fruit for this effort?

[Simoyd]

Although your chainsaw in 90 is NAI on it's own, I'm still a bit concerned about the quantity of defenses.

[Simoyd]

I don't like his newest post#154 because it sounds like a "validate my scumread" post.

If Grace goes "hey Mizzy is obvtown" and lists a bunch of reasons wouldn't that completely defeat the purpose of it?

Does scumAccountant have anything to lose at this point?

scum!Accountant has quite a lot to lose. The wagon on me was dead in the water after Grace backed off; like you said, nobody was applying a lot of pressure. It makes no sense to characterize this as a desperate move.

Wait, so first you say there's a lot to lose, then you say the wagon is dead, so what is there to lose then?

[Simoyd]

I don't think desperate is synonymous with "nothing to lose". Performing an action with a possible upside and no risk of a downside is still a valuable action in a non-desperate situation.

[Simoyd]

Some content from other people would be nice...

[Simoyd]

Titus has nothing to do with this game. RC's signature says he's a alt of Titus (another member on this forum). Some people read into that meta, but it's a lie so there's no meta to read into.

NAI is "not alignment indicative".

[Simoyd]

@Lycan: I got a few minor scum tells from Meepo at the beginning, but later I got a larger town tell (see 119). He's certainly not in my top two for scum at this time. I think he's about mid-field or null. Maybe a slight town read because the minor scum tells could be ego... I can go into more specifics if you'd like, not sure how much you're wanting.

[Simoyd]

I feel like RC must know that if accountant flips town then RC would be next for lynch (assuming RC isn't NK'd). He even said that he'd be okay with both of them dying after day two. This gives me a town lean on RC (at least until accountant flips).

[Simoyd]

I found one:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64821

(Drixx is the other goon not listed in post 1 in that game)

[Simoyd]

those first two pages of this game make it really hard not to confirmation bias the rest... :S

[Simoyd]

@Lycanfire: What is your read on grace?
@RC: What is your read on grace?

Even if it's just off the top of your head...

[Simoyd]

Getting prodded once then replaced is a town tell right?

[Simoyd]

*dramatic pause*

[Simoyd]

Town
Meepo

People please don`t voice your town reads so obviously just yet, because it will be easier to determine for scum who to kill during the night.

This seems pretty town motivated from Meepo.

In the end I was town-lean on meepo. This was a bigger tell to me than anything else I had on him.

[Simoyd]

I'm hoping pants will get replaced so that we don't have to lynch him...

[Simoyd]

@Accountant: what is your read on Lycanfire?

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Pants98

[Simoyd]

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-06-22 07:25:57)

^ I think I did that right and it should update...

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Pants98

No. We're not doing this for the very reasons Lycan suggested. I hate to admit it, but he's right on that part. tl;dr Pants's flip tells us nothing.

We are running out time. More votes on Lycan plz

Or Accountant if need be

Just trying to apply some pressure, but I guess he's already got a free ride at this point anyways... Gunna spend some time to ISO you and lycan tomorrow evening and change my vote then.

[Simoyd]

oh whoops missed the mod post cause I"m tired. UNVOTE:

[Simoyd]

snoe replaces Pants98

Thank Jesus!

[Simoyd]

"Scum don't have incentive to post while pressured, obv"

^ Can someone explain this to me. I guess I'm missing the obvious but wouldn't scum be more motivated to defend themselves because they have more to lose from dying? Even in this game people have commented that forced or excessive defending is a scum tell. How is the opposite (not posting, so not defending) also a scum tell??

[Simoyd]

Simoyd, can you give context for the quote?

Sure:

I didn't need to do any more defense of myself when Accountant had given basically the same defense I would've given, why put in the extra time?

Scum don't have incentive to post while pressured, obv

^ He effed up the quote in 260, so I fixed it in my quote

But like IV said, you contradicted yourself:

260: Lycan continues on IV. I think Lycan is tunneling here, but it may be townish tunneling. Lycan says “Scum don't have incentive to post while pressured, obv”, which is true but ignores that IV may be as busy as Lycan is.

I guess scum have more to lose and hence a greater incentive to defend themselves in this setup

[Simoyd]

Scum have incentive to lie low when under pressure

Can you elaborate on that incentive? I don't understand why scum would be motivated to do that.

[Simoyd]

And here I thought 209 was pretty good...

[Simoyd]

What's your read on me?

Thoughts?

You're definitely not today's lynch, but certain flips would make me very suspicious later (for example accountant flipping town). Your reads seem consistent with mine, except I'm still working on ISOing IV and lycan. Not sure where they fit in right this second, but they've posted a lot more for me to work with. Will be done in a couple hours, sorry just got back from work.

Other thoughts... uhh not liking snoe's "stream of consciousness" notes. Maybe he just missed some things, but maybe he's trying to spread mis-information...

I'm not following this hate on mizzy. Not sure what the scum tells were there, looked like scum hunting to me...

let me know if you want more detail anywhere

[Simoyd]

Why would an accountant townflip make you scumread me?

You were shitting on him really hard without communicating your justification. Everything you said for the first while was basically "I vote accountant" over and over. Not sure how this is different from pants getting his free ride, other than that you're associated with accountant. My understanding is that getting a free ride is a scum tell. This would let town fight and lynch each other.

[Simoyd]

I 'got a free ride' because I was V/LA and people townread my playstyle.

I don't think it matters why... You agree that you were getting a free ride...

Pants didn't get a free ride at all and was in fact heavily scumread.

My understanding is the lack of posting is the biggest tell on him. Yes he did that L-1 and yes his shit was shallow, but he ended up getting replaced so I think that all seems NAI because he could have just not been reading carefully/completely. That being said, the consensus was not to lynch pants today. How is that not a free ride?

[Simoyd]

I'm baffled at why Lycan is not getting shitstormed by you guys. Can just one of you, even one of you just be like "hey IV, your case is full of shit and here's why: *makes intelligent case on why IV is full of shit and Lycan is not scum* ". If not, I don't see why you're not voting Lycan.

I think that the problem between you two is 92. Lycan chose 3 people in 46 who were arguing about joke posts, then weighed them against each other to find the scummiest. You weighed the highest in his eyes simply because you didn't post much. Although he mentioned the meta in 46, he clarifies in 92 that the comment on meta was more of a minor addition than a central point.

After that you continued to focus on meta, starting with [posts]104[/posts] and in many posts after that.

Not saying I agree or disagree with either of your sides. Just trying to stop any unfounded motivations (from my perspective, noise).

It doesn't help that lycan's wordings are almost always confusing... Maybe that's a scum tell because it's forced?

You're still ignoring my tell I pointed out in my first post. If you called my premise silly rather than complain all game I would have unvoted you ages ago.

I can't figure out what you're saying by this post, decrypt it for me plz?

Sure... I considered you or Mizzy as directing attention towards Meepo/Accountant/Grace for no reason. Mizzy offered a lot more and seemed well enough in line with her usual play. You left a question that was already answered twice and it seemed clear to me that you were happy if people kept talking about useless things. At this point, the IC was busy ripping into a newbie and another newbie had no idea what was going on. It's fine if they wanted to have a go at one another, but others needed to drag more people in this. I stepped up to the plate and chose you.

The question he answered twice was what I just said here above. I think Lycan sees your raising the meta item in 104 and after as complaining.

---

Hopefully that helped... My perspective to follow

[Simoyd]

Pants98 you're replaced. Talking about ongoing games is against the rules. Stop posting.

[Simoyd]

IV

You've been tunneling on Lycan. Based on both your wordings it really feels like a misunderstanding. I think the whole topic of meta between you two is NAI. I think any time the meta topic is used in one of either of your arguments as a motivator is NAI. The tunnelling bugs me a bit (which you admit in 262)... Spending so much effort arguing it and missing the meat of 92 bugs me a bit... Not a huge indicator for me though. For reference: 104, 248, 261, 267

Pretty early in the game 52 you're talking about manipulating the pace of the game. Not a big fan of this.

In 104 you say "Accountant is playing the classic null IC", but in 33 you said the game start doesn't usually look like this. If accountant is playing in a "classic" way, then how is the game unusual? Can you elaborate on this?

You seem to be undecided on pants and RC votes. Not liking RC for the unvote in 229 then recanting in 239. Same with pants, hating the L-1 in 146, then moving away in 291. Now for pants, there's a good reason I think. But I'm curious what caused you to be okay with your previous RC hate, as no real explaination was provided? Or do you still lean scum on RC? This waffling around gives me a slight scum read too. Wondering if you're just feeling the crowd to see what's safe.

The first paragraph of 321 feels very town motivated to me. And the recent snoe pressure feels like scum hunting.

[Simoyd]

Lycan

I don't see how IV could possibly be manipulating the game by post 46. Trying to pick someone on vacation as an easy target?

I feel like your communication is often convoluted (post 75, 92 and 306). Also in 226 and 269 you killed the votes on pants, but these feel really forced and convoluted as well. You could have conveyed the idea with much fewer words. You basically just repeated yourself over and over... Additionally in 269 you say "I questioned why you were voting me at all if you were going to defend rather than attack all game". I've read it a dozen times, what does that mean? I wonder if the wording choices are complicated because you're hiding that you're scum.

I don't like the logic for your initial read on IV (92, 106, 118 and 260). I don't think scum would post less under pressure, and as the game went on he has posted plenty even without pressure despite disagreeing with you on this anyways.

In 130 you parroted part of my wall regarding Accountant defending IV, without adding anything. And in 156 you claim this to be your reason ("my own misgivings"), but it was already said... Trying to slide onto the wagon without a post-flip association happening on you later? Later In 260 you said you'd let accountant slide, but that's not what happened in 130 and 156. You did pressure him. This back and forth bugs me. What is your read on accountant now?

Also in 156 you mention that noone pressuring accountant, then say "Reeks of scum". Are you saying accountant reeks of scum? Or the situation reeks of scum?

Through 255 and 259 you claim to be able to call his alignment 100%! I would love to hear the explanation behind that! How was Accountant's answer not definitive?

[Simoyd]

Well those were a lot shorter than I expected. The meta topic being NAI to me cleaned them up a lot. Here's my shit:

Town: { Postie }
Town Lean: { Harkonnen97 }
Mid: { Innocentvillager, Grace, RadiantCowbells }
Scum Lean: { Lycanfire }
Scum: { Snoe, Accountant }

VOTE: Accountant L-2

Spoiler: Unofficial Vote Count

postie (1): snoe
snoe (1): Accountant
Accountant (3): Postie, RadiantCowbells, Simoyd
innocentvillager (1): Lycanfire
Lycanfire (1): innocentvillager

Not Voting: Grace, Harkonnen97

[Simoyd]

Hey Simoyd, I think you're sheeping RC and hiding behind your newbness to justify it. Your readslist is very similar to his and you're voting the same person as him without strong reasoning. I'd like to hear your defense against this.

If anything I'm sheeping postie, not RC. I have RC as null, and postie as town. I value postie's opinion more at this point, but I think my read list is consistent with my past posting and justified as best as I know how to.

I don't really follow/understand this "hiding behind my newbness" thing you guys are talking about... I assume you're just parroting this post:

How else would I get RC to vote with me?

I'm not sure one exists, but did you really expect to yield any fruit for this effort?

Titus has nothing to do with this game. RC's signature says he's a alt of Titus (another member on this forum). Some people read into that meta, but it's a lie so there's no meta to read into.

NAI is "not alignment indicative".

I feel like RC must know that if accountant flips town then RC would be next for lynch (assuming RC isn't NK'd). He even said that he'd be okay with both of them dying after day two. This gives me a town lean on RC (at least until accountant flips).

Getting prodded once then replaced is a town tell right?

*dramatic pause*

Stuff like this. I don't like the approach to the game.

I can write it off as a playstyle dislike thing for now though.

For your benefit, accountant:
173: I think this is a valid question searching for motivation.
186: This is a direct reply to someone's question. I think everything in there is precise and accurate.
209: I think this is a rational tell based on behavior. Someone please enlighten me if it's not...
234: I was thinking people like to play power roles and become disinterested if they are VT, but I haven't read that anywhere so I worded it as a question to see what people think.
243: This was emotion. I was really sick of pants not playing... I think everyone gets emotional now and then in threads regardless of experience. I don't think it has been excessive for me.

You guys are saying this is influencing your decision towards me because of it's newbness? Yes I lack experience but if you're letting that influence you that's your problem, not mine... Feel free to ask me any questions about any post that seems newby and I'll gladly explain my rational thought process.

---

Going back to the quote at the top, I think I've provided my reasoning for voting you already pretty clearly. I think "strong reasoning" is relative. My reasoning for you is the strongest reasoning I have, but I am also willing to lynch snoe at this point.

[Simoyd]

The tunnelling bugs me a bit (which you admit in 262)... Spending so much effort arguing it and missing the meat of 92 bugs me a bit... Not a huge indicator for me though. For reference: 104, 248, 261, 267

Okay, what does THIS mean? Missing the meat of 92? I'm not sure what this is referring to, or why this is relevant. Why are you quoting those posts?

"Missing the meat of 92" is referring to my explanation in 372. 104, 248, 261 and 267 are posts where you brought up the meta argument again after lycan had already explained it in 92.

[Simoyd]

Accountant is scum. stop voting people who aren't accountant and start voting people who are.

[Simoyd]

What he's doing here, though, is kind-of asking people to be suspicious of him after an Accountant townflip. I'm pretty sure he's town.

So then there was nothing wrong with my 209.

[Simoyd]

@Simoyd: Just to avoid confusion, can you restate your case on me?

Today is really busy for me, but it sounds like we'll get an extension, so I'll post details on this tomorrow evening (~32 hours from now)

[Simoyd]

I'm not really happy with his responses either... Lycanfire: Is English your first language?

[Simoyd]

Accountant/Lycan/snoe

I feel like we have a really high chance of both scum being in those three as well.

[Simoyd]

I don't see it as a first language issue I just think he's got really weird reads.

I feel like his reads make some sense in a weird backwards convoluted way, but there are simpler ways to convey the same deductions. Makes me think he's hiding something and I wonder if that is because he's having difficulty expressing his thoughts or if he really is working around the secret...

[Simoyd]

@Harkonnen97: What's your read on IV and on Lycan?
@Accountant: What's your read on Lycan?

[Simoyd]

I don't see it as a first language issue I just think he's got really weird reads.

I feel like his reads make some sense in a weird backwards convoluted way, but there are simpler ways to convey the same deductions. Makes me think he's hiding something and I wonder if that is because he's having difficulty expressing his thoughts or if he really is working around the secret...

no, you're right RC I'm dumb, it's just WIFOM...

[Simoyd]

If snoe flips town we kill lycan, if he flips scum, then kill accountant.

If we kill accountant today and and he flips scum then I think we don't have a good direction.
If we kill lycan today and and he flips town then I think we don't have a good direction.

I kinda don't want to put him at L-1 tho cause he's being replaced. Should I?

UNVOTE:

[Simoyd]

Yes...

VOTE: Accountant

[Simoyd]

I limited my thoughts to associative tells for a second which was dumb. Obviously the original data still exists when no additional association data is provided:S. this game is hard

[Simoyd]

My question for you is:
What would we ask you?

[Simoyd]

I think the most popular question for snoe was probably:
How would you like to die, hanging or lethal injection?

On a more constructive note, a read list would be cool. Maybe your top 2 scum and top 1 town every 6 pages?

[Simoyd]

then we can ask some questions based on that

[Simoyd]

It really looks the same as snoe's reads...

I want to hear Harkonnen97's opinion on blankface, and grace's slot's opinion on both snoe and blankface.

[Simoyd]

Harkonnen: I assume your vote (snoe/blank) is still your top scum read. Who is your second highest scum read?

[Simoyd]

What is PT? pre-game thread? Is there daytalk in this game?

[Simoyd]

yes

[Simoyd]

Case on accountant in your own words?

I don't like her reads. I don't like her defence of IV early on, although I'm not sure IV is scum right now, but it still speaks to accountant knowing IV is town. I don't like her smug defence of herself, not just with the conclusion paragraph, but of her flaky reasoning throughout the entire game. Hasn't done any scum hunting at all in the last 10 pages or more: Only clarification questions and answers to other's questions. Her last question was to ask about my case which is just an interest in her own well being. I'm not happy with the answers provided to my first wall: just because I debated things that were debatable, doesn't mean that her explanations of of the things I didn't question weren't suspicious. I suggest everyone go back and read her responses again (124) if you're really concerned about it. I'm only really okay with 2 maybe 3 of those responses tops... The rest is total garbage that she should have just admitted was garbage instead of making up stuff to explain it.

Now, she said snoe looked scummy, but only after everyone else jumped on that, and she didn't scum hunt there at all... not that I did either though... But both snoe and blank are doing some kind of odd befriending of accountant, so there's definately some association there, and I think that gives us more reason to find out what it is

[Simoyd]

@lycan: Who is your second scum pick after snoe?

[Simoyd]

That's not a slip unless he claimed to scumread you.

which is why I want to know lycan's second choice now

[Simoyd]

but he's been scumreading/tunneling on me basically this entire game

I think you've been tunneling on him, not him on you.

[Simoyd]

You or Postie. Reason: on the Accountant wagon instead of the Pants/Snoe/Blank one.

Why not RC then?

This makes me feel like you're working against me rather than considering the possibility we're on the same team.

I read a scum lean on you.

[Simoyd]

@mod: Those votes are on blank, not on titus, right? Titus replaced grace, right? blank replaced snoe?

[Simoyd]

@mod: blank also unvoted and titus/grace didn't have a vote

[Simoyd]

The only one of those that might be scum to me is Blank...

Ok, then that means we can't get a lynch on Accountant. Harkonnen97, Lycanfire, innocentvillager and titus won't vote accountant (correct me if I'm mistaken), which means he can't get 5 votes. So I'm going with my second choice.

VOTE: BlankFace

pretty sure that puts him at

> L-1 <

[Simoyd]

=\ Getting told by two people means one must be town... I do still prefer an Accountant lynch.

VOTE: Accountant

[Simoyd]

Unless we're scumpartners, but even in that case Snoe would be town.

Yea, I'm thinking that less now because I doubt both of you would jump in and yell at me if you were both town. I think scum pair as you two would just let snoe die and say "I told you so" to get the accountant lynch tomorrow. I think it's very unlikely for both of you to be scum.

[Simoyd]

EBWOP:


Yea, I'm thinking that less now because I doubt both of you would jump in and yell at me if you were both

scum

. I think scum pair as you two would just let snoe die and say "I told you so" to get the accountant lynch tomorrow. I think it's very unlikely for both of you to be scum.

[Simoyd]

I could go here at deadline.

I would hammer snoe last second to avoid a no-lynch...

[Simoyd]

We should have Snoe's vote by default

Blank is very town reading accountant though...

[Simoyd]

RC: who's your second scum pick?

[Simoyd]

yea, Harkonnen97 and IV should vote Accountant.

[Simoyd]

Simoyd’s 209 is pretty gross.

No, it's a beautiful snowflake.

[Simoyd]

and I'm very proud of it.

[Simoyd]

Accountant’s 103, which is the post he is referring to, is asking Mizzy to explain a scum read. Shutting down someone else’s scumhunting is scummy as hell. There is no benefit as town to ever attack someone for asking for elaboration.

I made no claim that accountant's question was bad to ask mizzy. I was asking about his motivation for questioning Mizzy over me. Just because I ask accountant a question doesn't mean that Mizzy shouldn't answer Accountant's question. I shut down nothing: mizzy responded 108.

[Simoyd]

Simoyd went from his case in 120 to entertaining the possibility that Accountant could be town

I think considering both sides is a town tell isn't it? That post was about my suspicions on RC, not accountant. I don't think it's possible for both RC and accountant to be scum, but I don't think RC is certainly town, so I can't not consider this...

[Simoyd]

what I'm trying to say is: vote for Accountant

[Simoyd]

Why do you feel Accountant was pushing for Mizzy to explain the Meebo read?

I'm glad you asked that question. Let me explain: I have no idea!!! That's why I asked. That's why I made the statement that you hate.

[Simoyd]

How do you feel about since Postie entered the game or his back and forth between Titus?

I feel like they are scum hunting and accountant is not.

[Simoyd]

Symond

I've used this nick since I was 14, and I'm always surprised how that 'n' ends up in there...

[Simoyd]

We should probably L-1 someone today right? To give enough time for possible claim and possible counter claim? *glares at harkonnen*

[Simoyd]

I still think Accountant should go first

[Simoyd]

even if blank flips town?

[Simoyd]

Really, really like my Accountant vote.

I guess your record of being able to perfectly read my alignment has finally come to an end

Accountant admitted it was perfect

[Simoyd]

at least 3 people are scum leaning me

[Simoyd]

so vote accountant then IV

[Simoyd]

HoS

IV&Titus for that L-1 and intent before I'm even caught up fully.

We're don't have a whole lot of time left. And people tend to go awol on weekends... We should really put accountant at L-1 asap

[Simoyd]

how about we just hammer now so that night time doesn't bleed into monday, so that we can play monday instead!

[Simoyd]

if I die, kill blank, then either RC or titus based on that

[Simoyd]

So blank: done your read-through? Can we get your reads?

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Postie

[Simoyd]

I think the other scum is either harkonnen97 (due to late day pressure), or not on accountant's wagon (Lycanfire / BlankFace).

[Simoyd]

Why do you think scum wasn't on Accountant's wagon yesterday?

Based on people's reads, especially titus' reads, I don't think anyone else on the wagon fits. I'm thinking Postie/BlankFace scum team (favoring postie), lycan and you i have a slight scum lean on but I don't think either of you should be lynched today.

[Simoyd]

Titus is confirmed town, and so is accountant. So I value their reads from day one more than anyone else's reads. postie's reads were inconclusive and undecided, which i think is scummy. blank's/snoe's reads were just confusing, which reads scum to me.

[Simoyd]

Looks to me like you said that you suspect Lycan and Blank because they weren't on the wagon, not because the people on the wagon were scumclean.

I think scum often try to distance themselves by having different opinions. This means a higher chance of one on the wagon and one off. But this is minor to my other point.

[Simoyd]

You said the same thing yesterday, and yet Accountant is the one that died.

And he provided the reason when he changed his vote... Why raise this?

[Simoyd]

Titus, Doctor, Killed Night 1

I'm 100% sure that titus is confirmed town.

[Simoyd]

Why didn't you start with this in the first place?

As I said, it's minor compared to my other point, so I started with the more significant point.

[Simoyd]

The problem Simoyd is that Titus was obvtown yesterday, and read Accountant as town. This let me ignore a lot of the bullshit noise and consider people like Postie, or yourself, esp. since Accountant/Titus liked mostly everyone else.

What I'm trying to say is that we knew all of this yesterday, but people were too busy sheeping RC to care.

I don't like this posturing.

[Simoyd]

Sorry

Looks like a town slip to me, reinforced by the "LOL" and "Sorry". Scum would know she was dead, and playing an obvious newb card here I think would unusual for scum.

[Simoyd]

don't be sorry for trying to scum hunt =D

[Simoyd]

@Postie: What is your current position on Lycan?
@Blank: What is your current position on Lycan?

Starting to like lycan/blank more as 752 left out blank

[Simoyd]

and by "like" i mean "read as scum"

[Simoyd]

smacking my head into my desk

Pics or it's fake

[Simoyd]

You say this like you know I'm town.

You say this like Harkonnen97 isn't in your town pool.

[Simoyd]

I think you're getting a free pass cause titus read you as town.

[Simoyd]

we'll have to sort that out day 3 I guess

[Simoyd]

RC, I want you to take a moment to think about how much sense that nightkill would have actually made from my perspective.

I think that not attacking it head on is more shady than the WIFOM reasoning that you're implying is to begin with.

[Simoyd]

Killing titus makes sense because she thought you were scum, and people thought she was town.

[Simoyd]

I don't think you have nothing to work with. You could choose anyone really... that also assumes lycan and snoe aren't ur buddies you were bussing. None of this makes sense to me.

[Simoyd]

who did scum postie think was PR then?

[Simoyd]

blank: we really need ur top 2 scum reads

[Simoyd]

I don't think the post of mine you quoted was useless, and it wasn't directed towards you.

[Simoyd]

being called on what?

[Simoyd]

Trying to scumread for something I could have quoted from day1 had I not been on my phone, then lynching Accountant anyway.

I did indeed have a scum lean on you yesterday. Today I mentioned that the posts you made today were suspicious. In 763 I'm testing the bounds of various possible setups, because people's opinions change post-flip. How is that useless?

[Simoyd]

What do we gain from lynching him and losing a townie?

So you think postie is town? You think titus' read was wrong?

[Simoyd]

You were suspicious of Accountant all day yesterday. And now her reads hold more value that anyone elses?

because accountant is confirmed town now, so along with titus and my own opinion, I have 3 distinct opinions which I reconcile to make a decision

Also interesting is that your real last mention of Postie was her as your top town read 377. What made that sudden change? The fact that two confirmed town suspected her? Because that's weak as hell.

I don't think it's weak. I think both players are more experienced than I am, and I know they aren't scum. What makes this weak exactly?

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Lycanfire

>> L-1 <<

*hands innocentvillager the hammer*

Your dream just came true

[Simoyd]

okay

[Simoyd]

lycan has been doing nothing but positioning. Admitting that his posts are useless, but ultimately something motivates him to keep hitting that 'submit' button...

[Simoyd]

If it's ego, then he's disguising his ego as a scumread on me. How is that town?

[Simoyd]

what about blank/lycan? With a side of everyone on the postie wagon getting mislynched day 3?

[Simoyd]

Not the first time blank friended lycan. Looks like lycan is omitting blank 752

[Simoyd]

How is no one else seeing how opportunistic he is being right now.

But postie is not being opportunistic?

[Simoyd]

blank: who is your second scumread?

[Simoyd]

anyone: why the fuck did titus think postie was scum?

[Simoyd]

Not until you answer the question you skipped from my 804.

ok

[Simoyd]

I just want to say for the record Accountant refusing to engage me at all is pretty shameful.

I'm with you on that one. It's like he quit half way through the game when you finally stepped in...

[Simoyd]

Spoiler: For Blank

Don’t like Simoyd’s slot so far. Didn’t really show up until page 3, and it was a flurry of fluff with absolutely no pressure behind it. Doesn’t feel like scumhuning, just active lurking.

You're an SE so you should know that 6 hours is hardly lurking. This has nothing to do with that the read is on me, just that you picked this out of the other things that happened.

Accountant is town as hell, Lycan is a bit behind her.

accountant is town as hell? I don't know how accountant normally plays, but I know I'm not the only one who was shocked when she said she hadn't done a reaction test the whole game. Lycan is town so early? Most had him as null at the time. This confuses me because it's inconsistent with everyone. Makes me think there's a motivation for the difference...

I can’t say that I would call that tunneling just yet, especially when half of the other players haven’t even got a word in.

You think I was lurking for not posting, then you think it's inappropriate to declare tunneling because other people hadn't posted much? How does this make sense?

responses I already made to your confusingness: 601, 603, 604

At the top of 597 you say you slightly like me, list one reason to like me, then half a dozen reasons why you think I'm suspicious. Why not "this post from simoyd is good, but the rest is crap" or something similar? This just sounds forced.

606 just ignores what I said. Not sure what you're talking about here or why it matters...

Accountant and Simoyd are at the top right now

considering how hard I pushed him (even at the point you read) this makes no sense. We couldn't both be scum.

I'm also incredibly drunk right now

and you have a job interview, and you start a new job soon. I get it, RL interferes with the game sometimes, but it's also convienient...

also feel free to read 806 again...

There is a lot of inconsistency in your posts, and it worries me. This is all besides the fact that I'm scum reading the slot based on pants and snoe, too.

I can haz ur second scum read nao plz?

[Simoyd]

Two of which are jokes.

none of those are jokes

[Simoyd]

I never said you were a scum team.

so your two top reads aren't on the same team? I find that odd...

[Simoyd]

Playing up the "I'm new and they know so much more then me!" card. That is what is weak about it.

Even if I wasn't new, I would still value them more than others.

[Simoyd]

You weren't actually pushing anything

define pushing? I posted some vague feelers based on the nothing that there was, then followed up the next day. Sounds like normal play, from every game I've read, to me...

[Simoyd]

So me having a differing opinion on a player makes me scum?

no, you having an irrational opinion on someone makes you scum.

[Simoyd]

And yet here I am, posting. IV got away with lurking day 1 for vacation. Me being drunk didn't stop me from posting, me having an interview didn't stop me from posting, me starting a new job [earlier today actually] hasn't stopped me from posting. So what exactly is your point?

If it's not affecting your play, why do you feel the need to keep stating excuses? Sounds like you're admitting you're scum.

[Simoyd]

Takes 4 to lynch when there's 7 total. Blank is L-1

[Simoyd]

UNVOTE:

[Simoyd]

What about postie/IV scumteam? They both seem to be hanging back letting us lynch each-other. Thoughts?

[Simoyd]

Yes. Either postie or blank has to die today. I think both provide about the same information once they flip.

I favor blank for my vote, but since I get yelled at whenever I put someone at L-1, I'll leave myself unvoted for now...

I no longer think Lycan should be lynched today, but I will be questioning his shit once I get home.

[Simoyd]

811

[Simoyd]

Trying to scumread for something I could have quoted from day1 had I not been on my phone, then lynching Accountant anyway.

I did indeed have a scum lean on you yesterday. Today I mentioned that the posts you made today were suspicious. In 763 I'm testing the bounds of various possible setups, because

people's opinions change post-flip.

How is that useless?

All you're doing is testing whether they read the previous day (hint: at least one claimed they haven't. Yes it's very useless. Meanwhile I was brought to L-1 right afterwards, by yourself no less. What does this do for the town?

As I stated: people's opinions change post-flip. Analysing people's opinions is good for town.

What do we gain from lynching him and losing a townie?

So you think postie is town? You think titus' read was wrong?

People were voting Blank and leaving. You want me to say nothing when I should be scum incarnate if I let this lynch go through after killing the Blank lynch for the same reason day 1. The same reasoning applies. We need for fight and find scum #2, debate the two flips and pick apart the Accountant wagon. Voting without doing this is lazy at worst and.. No it's just lazy regardless of alignment. And bad.

Who are you talking about exactly here? Who do you think is being lazy?

Spoiler: The rest

lycan has been doing nothing but positioning. Admitting that his posts are useless, but ultimately something motivates him to keep hitting that 'submit' button...

So I shouldn't post at all while I'm at work? I have a damn good reason to keep hitting that submit button, like how I know there must be scum on the Accountant wagon. You, IV, RC, Postie, Hark. You're all fair game to me. Make a post I don't like and I'm going to jump on you. So far, RC is good. IV has gone missing, no thanks to you for pulling out your chainsaw. Consider misreping me not just today, but the "tonal" arguments from yesterday to be one hell of a good scum lean on you. Whether Postie is the second scum, I'm not sure, beyond sheeping RC again today she isn't giving me anything beyond killing town, that's pretty bad Postie! Hark is still good, because paradoxically hammering Accountant proves he was paranoid about Titus on the trigger

Not the first time blank friended lycan. Looks like lycan is omitting blank 752

@Postie: What is your current position on Lycan?
@Blank: What is your current position on Lycan?

Starting to like lycan/blank more as 752 left out blank

I replied to a post of yours yesterday of my second choice behind Blank. I said Postie or yourself. You could have scumread that yesterday.

More useless posts. Here's another.

Upset at being called on it?

being called on what?

Trying to scumread for something I could have quoted from day1 had I not been on my phone, then lynching Accountant anyway.

I'm obv not at home at the time but misrepresenting the argument in the above exchange when I don't have the time to cut and paste quotes on my phone sure is helping us a lot today

because i have no intention of making a helpful post until i get home tonight, and if others want to do the same i'm happy to point it out

Kicker:

@Simoyd

You or Postie. Reason: on the Accountant wagon instead of the Pants/Snoe/Blank one. Postie basically said she would go along with RC's read, meanwhile you've been on Accountant for awhile now, but you keep questioning my tone. These are one-sided comments. What do you want me to say, if anything? This makes me feel like you're working against me rather than considering the possibility we're on the same team. Meepo/Hark is good. RC is probably ok. Grace's slot was in a good position if she was scum, all she had to do was post. Most liked her. I have doubts that Accountant or IV are Blank's partner.

You *or* Postie. I said Titus/Accountant let me pursue other leads, like you and Postie, and this quote proves I wasn't saying Postie/Simoyd scumteam. This was in reply to you no less day 1.

This whole debate between us popped up because of 748 followed by 752. You're right, a mistake was made. I assumed that the combination of those two posts meant that you no longer thought of blank as scum. Then instead of just stating the contradiction directly, you decided to rant on and make some crazy convoluted argument against our misunderstanding (see the spoiler above). So thanks for finally clearing that up three pages later. I still think 743 made by IV was reasonable, and 748, 752 and 753 (all made by you, IV) are all just posturing, which you even admitted in 753. I don't see how this posturing is good for town.

[Simoyd]

I still wanna lynch Blank. Is it still too early for L-1? What else would people like to discuss?

[Simoyd]

Postie, I think if your town pool was static such that you only left enough room for fake scum reads when you were scum, then that would be an immediate tell day 1 if you were town or not. The fact that you brought it up means you're aware of it, so I doubt that scum-postie would leave room and display such a tell. With this context, pointing it out seems like posturing.

[Simoyd]

This is even more suspicious coming from you when you've made such an attempt to hide other people's tells, saying you're sure I'm town but don't want to say why, and you're sure RC is town but not saying what he does when he's scum. I think most people would value keeping their own tells secret more than keeping other people's tells secret. If you value being able to read other people's tells so much, then I would think you'd value keeping your own tells secret even more.

The whole thing just sounds manipulative

[Simoyd]

RC: Are you defending blank? Day 1 I put him at L-1 and u freaked, and today you hit postie, then lycan, then me. What is your read on Blank right now?

[Simoyd]

^disregard that.

[Simoyd]

I feel like RC is sheeping me. Postie, what do you think?

[Simoyd]

I think blank should have more votes than postie

VOTE: BlankFace

>> L-1 <<

[Simoyd]

you didn't post your reasoning on accountant until I had already posted two walls. The reasoning you specified was stuff I already said. Today I voted postie, followed by you.

In your defense you voted lycan before me, but I said I didn't think he should be lynched and now he's out of our lynch pool.

So either we think alike or you're sheeping scum. I think we will have to sort that out tomorrow

[Simoyd]

also nobody hammer without intent and claim opportunity, obviously...

[Simoyd]

I'm okay with a postie lynch, but I would prefer blank.

[Simoyd]

pretty sure that RC has never voted blank. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Simoyd]

pretty sure that RC has never voted blank. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Where are you going with this..?

RC/Blank

That's another reason I want to lynch blank

[Simoyd]

Now that I think about it, sure it's theoretically possible that Simoyd L-1'd one of his partners to deflect suspicion from their wagon, given that he's done it twice in the span like 2 IRL days.

But I still think Simoyd is probably newbtown. His posting mostly screams newbtown. Some of his actions are pretty scummy but they can all be explained plausibly under the context of newbtown.

stop.

newbtown is very rarely newbtown. not when they're being like this.

OK how about this: You tell me what you guys think I've done that's newbtown, I'll explain the reasoning behind my actions and we talk it out? All I've heard (in both my games) is the word "newbtown" over and over with no reasoning...

[Simoyd]

to try to defend her.

all my day 2 posts on postie have been attacking her I'm pretty sure, right? Which ones do you think are defending her?

[Simoyd]

I don't think I'm rushing lynches. I'm putting people at L-1.

[Simoyd]

I had a wall on day 1 about lycan. and I had just debated things with him before making that vote. I trusted IV to handle the hammer appropriately because I town read him. I know he's smart enough to be scum read if he hammered.

Lets face it, IV has in fact been dreaming of killing lycan.

[Simoyd]

Please calm down RC.

Simoyd please unvote Blank and put Postie on L-1.

I think you're town, but I'm not sure that his proves anything for me. I guess we'll see.

VOTE: Postie

>> L-1 <<

For the record, I'd still prefer a blank lynch today, but postie is certainly my second choice.

[Simoyd]

after recognizing he was presenting a flawed argument in our exchange.

My argument wasn't flawed. Your exchange was flawed. but yes your point still applies I guess

[Simoyd]

Postie please claim in your next post :^)

but noone has intent to hammer.

[Simoyd]

screw your blank/postie scumteam tbh fam.

postie/lycan?

[Simoyd]

defend her by discrediting me when I start trying to lynch her again

I'm attacking you for the blank defense, not the postie attack. As I said, my second lynch choice is postie.

[Simoyd]

Hold on bro, didn't you very recently suggest a me/postie scumteam

yes. That possibility has been very low on my list. I wanted to see what others think. You are currently my second top townread under harkonnen

[Simoyd]

Okay, why?

I want to answer this but maybe you can be more specific? I'm not sure which part you're asking "why" to exactly.

[Simoyd]

little bit confusing.

let me know if there's anything I can help clear up

[Simoyd]

How did I all of a sudden become your second biggest scumread for pushing someone that you were scumreading?

You're not my biggest scumread. Is discussing the option bad? You're tied with Lycan for 4th/5th

[Simoyd]

Is there a problem with that?

[Simoyd]

also since postie is no longer L-1 (defeating the reason why harkonnen wanted me to L-1 her), and blank only has 1 vote on him (he's my preferred vote).

VOTE: BlankFace (L-2)

Spoiler: Unofficial Vote Count

BlankFace (2): innocentvillager, Simoyd
Lycanfire (1): Postie
Simoyd (1): BlankFace, RadiantCowbells
Postie (1): Harkonnen97

Not Voting: Lycanfire

[Simoyd]

I went from L-2 to L-1 and Simoyd, who clearly wants me lynched, unvotes

That is not what happened. I unvoted lycan before you went L-1, citing the getting yelled at and that I no longer thought he deserved a lynch, then I L-1'd you after postie had two votes. So what you said is backwards and wrong.

[Simoyd]

RC puts Postie to L-2 in 688 and Simoyd's immediate response is to say that RC is sheeping him [lolwat]

someone already brought this up. You parroted them, and I already described my reasoning. Let me know if you want me to repeat myself, or if you have a separate concern.

[Simoyd]

So basically, his scumpool was tied at votes, which if he was town and actually hunting would be great for him.

why is having my first choice of lynch at the same number of votes as my second choice good for town when I'm voting nothing? I would like to pressure my highest scum read, so I did.

Instead, he sees Postie put under the same pressure as me and puts me a L-1. Makes me think he's either sheeping everyone else's suspicions of Postie or is her partner. Reading over RC's posts about Simoyd rushing every lynch besides Postie, I have to agree. Happened with the Lycan vote, and conveniently now that Lycan isn't under threat of being lynched anymore he isn't suspicious of Lycan anymore, and it happened with me as well. If Simoyd was serious about me/Postie as a scum team, he would have been fine with either one of us.

I am fine with either one of you. I would prefer you though.

[Simoyd]

The only argument I see for lynching me is defending postie. Correct me if I'm wrong?

I thought pre-flip associative tells were generally considered a bad thing.

How about we lynch blank for actually being scummy himself? He jumps on my wagon with nothing but parroting and nonsense.

[Simoyd]

I have made no claim of any kind.

[Simoyd]

I never once resisted a postie lynch, but I do prefer a blank lynch.

[Simoyd]

I think Harkonnen is town based on the town slip earlier. I'm not getting any manipulative vibes from him, which I think I would if he was cunning enough to fake that slip.

[Simoyd]

I think I can defend myself, postie.

p-edit: oh gawd u did it