Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[Lovesick]

ICs can be any alignment I believe, they're here to help the new, troubled players with the ways things work and etc however no more than that - correct me if I'm wrong though. Hopefully we have a spike of activity at one point otherwise this game may get difficult.

[Lovesick]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

Nachos, to answer your post where you had replied to me, it was simply a post of acknowledgement that we had started as I was out of town and I didn't have the time in my day to make a more decent reply than give (Whoever had asked about ICs) a brief explanation and an opinion/thought - not very contributive but it's the least i could do.

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

[Lovesick]

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

Before I get into it, I am a female hence why my preferable pronoun is a she and not a he - sorry for being petty but it angers me a little on the inside.

How can you possibly want a 'lurker' to act aggressively if you had not seen their playstyle so you have no idea if their preferable playstyle is exactly what you want? It has never made sense to me as to why people pressure vote so early when there is minimal content related to them. Playstyle/reaction also barely defines what alignment they may be - especially in a newbie game where there can be relatively new players who have no idea as to how to react and respond to things.

[Lovesick]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

Nachos, to answer your post where you had replied to me, it was simply a post of acknowledgement that we had started as I was out of town and I didn't have the time in my day to make a more decent reply than give (Whoever had asked about ICs) a brief explanation and an opinion/thought - not very contributive but it's the least i could do.

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

YO LOVESICK tell us your scum/town reads from reading all the posts you were 'lurking' (probably sleeping) through.

There are no scum or town reads not ones which can be based from a logical stand point based on facts, ony ones made from opinion and thoughs. The only person I have ill feelings to are Nacho as i feel as though he is trying very hard to lead this game and is coming off as a little too strong for me however what have you had to offer which could be of serious use other than this bandwagon on me?

[Lovesick]

I didn't say that I would unvote one Lovesick had posted. I said I would unvote once Lovesick had offered an original scum/town diagnosis.
...
UNVOTE: LoveSick

But, Lovesick hasn't offered any reads/thoughts. Why the unvote?

As a matter of fact, Lovesick's only contributions are defending herself. Not one post actively participating in the 'find scum' part of mafia.
VOTE: LoveSick

(L-2)

Lovesick did offer a contribution. She stated that Nacho is sketchy.
I said I'd jump off the Lovesick Wagon once Lovesick offered some original and judgemental content.

@Lovesick + everyone else, can we brainstorm the possibility of Nachomamma, an IC, being mafia. Is this likely, anyone getting any Town reads off of him.

Personal opinion is that I find Nacho unsettling because of how calculating he seems (post #64 for instance) but it isn't logical, more of a gut feeling.

I never said he is sketchy why are you taking my post out of context? I simply said i have ill feelings towards his playstyle, that's all. It's not me being OMGUS, i just literally am not fond of that playstyle for many reasons

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

[Lovesick]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

The point of it not having much context is to avoid accusing or throwing the shift onto someone else. The reason i also only mentioned nacho was because those were my only thoughts, i honestly dont believe anyone has acted enough to be proven town or scum in my book

However I am wary of Superhans and his constant jumping from one player to another within instant but that may just be his playstyle

[Lovesick]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

The point of it not having much context is to avoid accusing or throwing the shift onto someone else. The reason i also only mentioned nacho was because those were my only thoughts, i honestly dont believe anyone has acted enough to be proven town or scum in my book

However I am wary of Superhans and his constant jumping from one player to another within instant but that may just be his playstyle

Actually, throwing the shift on someone else is EXACTLY what you should do if you are A) a PR or B) Scum. Especially if you have no clue how to get yourself Town read. I remember the days where getting lynched day 1 was a common occurrence. To be naive again...

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

[Lovesick]

N1 kill is not the only source of logical reasoning. As a matter of fact, I'd argue night kills (especially in newbie games) are a fairly poor source of information.

Arguably so, I have yet to understand what happens after a night phase on here and in particular the newbie games

[Lovesick]

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

Wasting a day on introductions only helps scum, not town.

As i have stated, this was all on a different website where letting a kill go through was very informative and sometimes even essential for town. I really rather not argue about the way i played mafia on another website compared to how its played here lol

[Lovesick]

In my opinion Lovesick's post contained barely any content. Pointing out one player is sketchy isn't really contributing much.

@LoveSick @toblerone187 please contribute some thoughts on who's scum/town and why

The point of it not having much context is to avoid accusing or throwing the shift onto someone else. The reason i also only mentioned nacho was because those were my only thoughts, i honestly dont believe anyone has acted enough to be proven town or scum in my book

However I am wary of Superhans and his constant jumping from one player to another within instant but that may just be his playstyle

Actually, throwing the shift on someone else is EXACTLY what you should do if you are A) a PR or B) Scum. Especially if you have no clue how to get yourself Town read. I remember the days where getting lynched day 1 was a common occurrence. To be naive again...

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

LOL. You don't think much of RVS, well, I think its never too early to develop reads - use that to your advantage.

No i don't, it's usually a pressure vote to get someone talking especially one day 1. However as I said i try to hold off on concluding on things so early in game because of the things mentioned previously.

[Lovesick]

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

Ok sorry Lovesick is not such a newbie as I had thought

I may have gotten rusty/out of touch with it all since the last time I have played was about 3 years ago lol

[Lovesick]

The goal for day one is to create conversation. A self-vote doesn't really have the ability to do that. Which is why it's considered scummy to vote for yourself.

It seems to be working rn

I don't like this attempt to take credit for starting conversation; it should be obvious that very little (if any at all) discussion is centering around your self-vote.

I also don't like the vote on Superhaus; seems like an easy vote to make with LQ backing you up.

Vote: TheDominator37

I'm not going to deny, the way Superhans has been acting makes it reasonable to raise some suspicion. After all, if you vote for someone to put pressure and get more content from them then why give that up the second they say something arguably informative? Surely you would pursue further on with questioning to get the maximum you can from that person before unvoting? I would like to believe that the vote was to get me to post but I am aware that it was to put pressure on me and get my input on some of the players and the situation.

I feel as those these vote swings are not as useful as you would like them to be, considering that people just join the wagon and forcibly get the player to post content with the danger of the scum jumping in on that vote. So why not question them before voting them if there is a refusal of disposing of answers to your questions?

[Lovesick]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

[Lovesick]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

Eyup, just a couple posts above your own vote. Nacho had simply voted for his inactivity and his self provlaimed activity starting self vote. He may be having troubles with interacting and picking players out and which ones to question - I know I sometimes have this feelinng which causes me to go silent in games as i feel its not my turn to speak.

[Lovesick]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

I got townreads on a few of the players who were around early game because it seemed like they were hitting the ground running; you didn't. I made the vote with the knowledge that I could be taking it off shortly after you showed up and posted; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time wasted.

This is a bit of an old post, but as I had stated. I had made a post to aknowledge the fact that the game has started instead of just not posting at all as I knew my day would be busy and I wasn't aware at which time the activity would spike up since I have never played with any of the people here. My problem wasn't with you voting, it was Superhan's wagon which troubled me as I believe that two (Arguably three as Connor later on hopped onto it) players trying to pressure me is a bit too much and time wasting as those other two votes could've been used on other players to get a rise out of them as well, hurrying the process of gathering information

[Lovesick]

I like keeping the pressure in inactive players to give us some content. I can't read what I can't read.
For now I'll keep LoveSick in the back of my mind. I'd like to see more scumhunting and less self-defense from her, though.

UNVOTE: LoveSick
VOTE: TheDominator37

Here's the wagon. Why not pressure other players instead of chasing after the ones Nacho keeps picking? It seems to be a trend of yours to do so. Obviously this cant just be you siding with a scum buddy but why waste time on the same person rather than pursue on other players' cases?

Wait, am I following nacho's votes? I didn't intend to do so.

I've been scumreading dom for awhile now, and its lack of content is starting to look scummier and scummier.

Eyup, just a couple posts above your own vote. Nacho had simply voted for his inactivity and his self provlaimed activity starting self vote. He may be having troubles with interacting and picking players out and which ones to question - I know I sometimes have this feelinng which causes me to go silent in games as i feel its not my turn to speak.

I know nacho did in that instance - you claimed it was a pattern.

A quick observation is all it was, for future reference more or less and to perhaps get you to target another player instead to save time (Not that we will be running out of it anytime soon..)

[Lovesick]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

I got townreads on a few of the players who were around early game because it seemed like they were hitting the ground running; you didn't. I made the vote with the knowledge that I could be taking it off shortly after you showed up and posted; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time wasted.

This is a bit of an old post, but as I had stated. I had made a post to aknowledge the fact that the game has started instead of just not posting at all as I knew my day would be busy and I wasn't aware at which time the activity would spike up since I have never played with any of the people here. My problem wasn't with you voting, it was Superhan's wagon which troubled me as I believe that two (Arguably three as Connor later on hopped onto it) players trying to pressure me is a bit too much and time wasting as those other two votes could've been used on other players to get a rise out of them as well, hurrying the process of gathering information

I'd argue that getting information from exceptionally lurky players is better than gettting some out of an active one.

Now, can you please start contributing to finding scum and stop solely defending yourself

Have my recent posts other than the one which you just quoted based on defending myself? I simply responded to Nacho as he had quoted my post.

I'd argue that pursuing information from more than one player at once is much more reasonable and logical than ganging up on one member who at that time wasnt reachable, is that not true?

[Lovesick]

A quick observation is all it was, for future reference more or less and to perhaps get you to target another player instead to save time (Not that we will be running out of it anytime soon..)

Why do you want me to target another player?

Why do you persist on targeting the same player? Is it going to double or triple the amount of information you gather? You're more likely to get information whilst reaching out to a number of players than solely one. That's like having 5 cleaners at a restaurant clean one spot all together when they could all go to different areas and clean them at the same time

[Lovesick]

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

I got townreads on a few of the players who were around early game because it seemed like they were hitting the ground running; you didn't. I made the vote with the knowledge that I could be taking it off shortly after you showed up and posted; that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time wasted.

This is a bit of an old post, but as I had stated. I had made a post to aknowledge the fact that the game has started instead of just not posting at all as I knew my day would be busy and I wasn't aware at which time the activity would spike up since I have never played with any of the people here. My problem wasn't with you voting, it was Superhan's wagon which troubled me as I believe that two (Arguably three as Connor later on hopped onto it) players trying to pressure me is a bit too much and time wasting as those other two votes could've been used on other players to get a rise out of them as well, hurrying the process of gathering information

I'd argue that getting information from exceptionally lurky players is better than gettting some out of an active one.

Now, can you please start contributing to finding scum and stop solely defending yourself

Have my recent posts other than the one which you just quoted based on defending myself? I simply responded to Nacho as he had quoted my post.

I'd argue that pursuing information from more than one player at once is much more reasonable and logical than ganging up on one member who at that time wasnt reachable, is that not true?

Actually, reviewing your ISO, I do agree you're contributing more. It's weird you brought up such an old post just to defend yourself tbh.

It wasn't me, Nacho had quoted it out of the blue a couple of minutes ago so i responded to him.

[Lovesick]

Have my recent posts other than the one which you just quoted based on defending myself? I simply responded to Nacho as he had quoted my post.

I'd argue that pursuing information from more than one player at once is much more reasonable and logical than ganging up on one member who at that time wasnt reachable, is that not true?

The reason we were all on a single wagon was because of this post:

RVS (the opening stage) is typically characterized by voting people for silly reasons. Sometimes I participate, sometimes I don't, but voting early game for a silly reason is as alignment-neutral as alignment-neutral gets.

It's okay to hunt multiple lurkers at once but if one deserves suspicion more than the other two then it seems smarter to combine efforts on one.

Looking back that may not have been the best strategy.

Combining your votes on a player who is not reachable is not a smart move at all, it's quite dumb as you could reach out to other players whilst having one player keep pressure on the lurking player and once a certain time period has passed and the player has not responded, that's when you put more pressure on the player. Only because Nacho has a preferred way of playing, it doesnt make it right or logical in some scenarions nor justifiable to follow through with his actions

[Lovesick]

Having 3 votes on one player is way more pressure than having 1 vote on every player.

But had a reasonable amount of time passed where the player had not responded to the original voter to assume that they are willingly keeping inactive?

We have over a week to discuss and scumhunt so why would you feel the need to rush and wagon in on votes? Other players have lives and things going on as well. Hence why you should give them a chance to redeem themselves before jumping in on a wagon that can easily be jumped on by scum and be placed at a disadvantage.

[Lovesick]

Superhans, anyone you think is mafia/town right now?

Finding Lovesick insufferable, but that doesn't mean she is mafia, just a terrible townie.

TheDominator is mafia (not an original insight).

LQ is definitely snakelike, but not sure that makes him mafia. Slightly scum leaning I would say for now.

Does me trying to help gather information in a more efficient way make me more of a horrible townie? I feel as though you are ignoring what I'm trying to point out which is a flaw of both yours and Connor's but whatever I suppose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lovesick]

Let's just stop discussing the lurker trains now. It's not productive and a waste of time, as it already happened awhile ago, and nobody really seems to be able to find anything exceptionally scummy in them.

Is there any other reason you find Denominator scummy or is the activity/lack of content the only reason? Who do you think is likely town and why?

[Lovesick]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

[Lovesick]

@ Lovesick,

TheDominator also voted for me with 0 explanation in the post. (e.g. jumping on the Superhans wagon for no apparent reason).

Im aware but I'm not going to pursue a player which is already being pursued. Which is why I asked Connor about who he thinks is town.

[Lovesick]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

Forced? I'm waiting on him to provide any reasoning behind his vote before concluding on anything, i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

[Lovesick]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

Forced? I'm waiting on him to provide any reasoning behind his vote before concluding on anything, i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems you think Town has the ability to multitask their Scum reads as a whole better than you know how to do yourself. So how does that work exactly?

what do you mean by multitask their scum reads?

[Lovesick]

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them

Superhans - His very switchy behaviour where he hops from one thing to another, almost indecisively and usually dropping down on the people which he pursues after minimal effort ( Almost as if trying to blend town but trying to not get involved too much )

Connor - Continues to request reads from people after providing minimal ones himself, pursuing after players which are already being pursued. In my opinion following after Nacho a bit too much

Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.

These are some observations which I have made which make me cautious of the players.

[Lovesick]

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

Believe it or not, i wasn't talking about myself but denominator in those instances as the only reason that discussion has spiked up was because of the immediate 'accidental' wagon on him.

i have no opinion on the vote as he provided no reasoning behind it?

I'm not liking this, this seems (yes I'm going to say it) forced!

Forced? I'm waiting on him to provide any reasoning behind his vote before concluding on anything, i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems you think Town has the ability to multitask their Scum reads as a whole better than you know how to do yourself. So how does that work exactly?

what do you mean by multitask their scum reads?

I'll give you an example:

VOTE: Lovesick

Lovesick, I'll be super happy to unvote on the condition that you read through all the comments posted so far tell us your opinions on scum/town reads. Cheers

Scum post.

Yeah I think that smiley face does seem pretty scummy now that you mention it.

In all seriousness what I did may appear scummy, and perhaps I rushed too quickly onto the lurker Wagon. my reasoning was that if lots of people vote for someone who's lurking, they'll freak out when they log in, and play more aggressively.

In all seriousness, I was voting Lovesick to put pressure on him

1) You said you would unvote them once they posted, so not only is this a non-committal vote, but it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.
2) You are asking something of someone that you haven't done adequately enough yourself ie. reads. You make it sound like the lurker should have definite stances at this point in the game, when you yourself are not doing anything close to that.

3) You make jokes about the smiley being Scummy when I actually didn't list any reasons for why I thought it was a Scummy post. You then go on to interpret why I read the post as Scummy, so you clearly know at least part of the reason for why it is Scummy, which leaves me wondering why you made the post in the first place as Town... Unless you knew it could be interpreted as Scummy when/shortly after you made the post, which is what I am thinking, which is why I think you are Scum.
4) The you give a second reason for your vote. This is over explaining your position. You were Sitting there thinking what you could say to defend yourself and prolly came up with the second bit first then went back and added more of an explanation to you vote which is what we see as the first reason. Either one of these answers wouldn't been too Scummy on their own, but put together, both saying about the same thing (one just more elaborate) and that makes for an over explanation and over explanations (in defence) are Scummy in my book.

Probably. He's the IC, it was likely a conversation starter.

I take issue with this... Nacho is a much much better player than myself. I also detailed that I am NOT the IC this game because I didn't/don't want the responsibility.

VOTE: Rautherdir

You are not paying attention.

Note that these posts were made one directly after the other.

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

[Lovesick]

Million dollar question, is Lovesick a genius mafia, or goofiest townie ever?

Also Connor, by logical i mean with evidence from night phases which we can use to deduce and conclude things with ease other than make assumptions purely made on the first few posts in Day 1. Normally (At least where i played) Day 1 is a warm up, we get cozy and slowly introduce our playstyles to eachother hence my not so contribution to the actual objective. As also as a norm, I never do reads day 1 because it's too early to judge, too early to analyse, deduce, conclude and speak so confidently about my own thoughts when it comes to other players however I do understand why that may not be the case here because of the length of the days which personally i think is ridiculous but also logical in its own ways

^"I never do reads day one" & "We get cozy and make slowly introduce our playstyles".

I don't rate that comment at all.

Well i never did do reads day one as on the website i played days lasted from 24 to 48 hours xD Im sorry if im contradicting myself, i have a tendency to be goofy and go back on my words but this is longer than the usual time lol xD im sorry

[Lovesick]

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them

Superhans - His very switchy behaviour where he hops from one thing to another, almost indecisively and usually dropping down on the people which he pursues after minimal effort ( Almost as if trying to blend town but trying to not get involved too much )

Connor - Continues to request reads from people after providing minimal ones himself, pursuing after players which are already being pursued. In my opinion following after Nacho a bit too much

Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.

These are some observations which I have made which make me cautious of the players.

Asking in depth questions =/= pursuing, and asking multiple people questions, and scum hunting different people doesn't mean that I'm not going to follow up.

The reason I'm because of your behaviour is because you dont follow up in the heat of the moment - I'm not saying that it makes you scum however I am saying that I'm cautious of you because of it

[Lovesick]

Im wary*

[Lovesick]

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

[Lovesick]

Im still not sure what you mean but I think scum reads can be multitasked to an extent, if you cannot put pressure on two players then let another player deal with one of them? (Im sorry if Im miles off about what i understood from your post but im talking to someone on the phone )

Nope, exactly.

I think i had too much today because now im just sitting here a little puzzled at this response, congratulations I suppose on confusing the heck out of me right here

And I'm back to Town reading you.

Im not gonna lie, i had already lost you back when i asked you to explain it and none of it had helped but i tried to understand and reply accordingly but im pretty sure i didnt

[Lovesick]

I'm reviewing LoveSick's ISO at the moment. I'm early into analyzing the posts, but as far as I can see LoveSick has defended TheDom a lot. I find this weird because TheDom has contributed very little, so I wonder why LoveSick would prop it up so much. This could be a response to getting hammered pretty hard as a lurker herself though.

I don't find it that surprising. Lovesick was very anti-lurk-lynching (just see how angry she is that we are picking on random lurkers)

What's the cause of this bandwagon on me again? Inactivity? That's a bit unfair if you ask me considering i was asleep during all of the activity. (I wont be quoting posts because my only available source of playing this is my phone so I don't know how to format my posts with quotations on this particular forum)

[...]

Now i wont continue with the excuses as the bottom line is that it was very inconvenient of the time the game started and when the activity had spiked up. So Nachos, how is it a good idea to start hunting for lurkers when 24 hours hasn't past, not giving the players enough time to post as they may have things going on in their lives or are simply asleep? Also for the others which had jumped the wagon on myself, explain to me what type of evidence are you trying to gather from this?

Personally in my opinion, the only right moment for lurker hunting is if they had contributed nothing at all and half of our given time has gone. I mean otherwise, hunting for lurkers is a very easy way of lynching players and if done right, can be an advantage to the scum more so than the town as the ratio of mafia to town is 2:7.

However, if Lovesick continues to defend TheDominator, it could be a very legitimate scum read.

At this point I'm not going to defend him as he has posted but ignored the votes made against him. Dont see why I should defend someone who has had the chance to redeem themself and even showed that he has been paying attention but instead of doing so, he continues to go back to this state. (For future reference - not that you would want to remember - I only defend players who show a genuine lack of activity not someone who gets questioned, posts something related to way back and then once again disappears)

[Lovesick]

Just putting together a post with my thoughts and reads on everyone

Who would you like to speak up right now and about what?

[Lovesick]

Who would you like to speak up right now and about what?

Obviously Fancypants and Dominator but I guess everyone feels the same.

LQ I would like to hear more sense from and Connor I would like to know what he thinks of what I think of him

What would you like them to speak up about once they are here?

I doubt that LQ will change his style just for ome game and that's something which you will have to accept unless he proves me wrong in that - Which i doubt he will

[Lovesick]

TheDominator37

- a total of 4 posts since the start of the game! Just seems to be doing enough to not get prodded. The frustrating thing is that it

has

been online but has totally ignored the game. Either a lazy irresponsible town or a very shy scum

I agree here - I'm going to put down TheDom as scum until it gives me a reason not to.

LicketyQuickety

- frankly I simply cannot understand half of what he is saying. His posts are confusing and full of game theory and Self-aggrandisement. IMO this does not help town at all. And after all the "non-traditional methods" crap it turns out he just uses gut reactions! Well welcome to the club - I'm a noob and that is what I do! No real read because I find reading his posts boring and confusing but gut reaction is that he is trying to bury town under a moutain of "paperwork" therefore scum. I don;t think he is helping town hunt scum.

Where is everyone getting this LQ's reads are 100% gut reaction thing from? His posts can be confusing though, I wish he'd clarify - as his reasoning appears to be good, just his way of saying it is bad.

Nachomamma8

- my gut reaction here is town. He seems to be questioning people in a sensible manner and trying to get clarification from them on things. Ok I am inexperienced but that seems to me to be the way to go about things.

I don't know here. I originally thought a LQ-Nacho scumteam might be a possibility, but I'm fairly sure this isn't the case now; however, I'm not ready to write off Nacho as town just yet.

Rautherdir

- no strong read. One thing I liked was that when he voted LQ and said he would come back with a variety of reasons. And he did - he had clearly analysed LQ's posts

I don't - I thought his reasons were nearly non-existent.

Lovesick

- still leaning town but would like to see more scumhunting and less fluff

I think if Lovesick is scum there's a good chance her partner is TheDom.

FancyPants

- definitely leaning scum. So little content posted (I know he said he would not be very active at the weekend but still very little on Friday). Of all the possible questions he could ask and all the content he could comment on, he just wanted to know who I would kill and why Connor thought Dom was scum!

I actually thought he said he would be active on the weekend (That's why I asked for the prod). It looks like I was wrong, he said

after

the weekend. I'll look for more of his content come Monday.

Superhans

- no real suspicions here. Generally town feel

My theory is that this is because Superhans asked toblerone for his reads.

ConnorJC

- this is one that I have a strong scum feel for. Mainly gut feel but there were a couple of things such as when LQ said he was agreeing with him a lot and he quickly defended himself. Also I keep going back to him answering questions on behalf of others

My nacho vote was a pretty bad play, I'll admit. I'm surprised you have a strong scum feel for me with that reasoning though, especially with LoveSick's early posts.

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick, excluding yourself, who do you think has the best reads right now and why?

Im unsure of whether by this you mean the reads made on people or the person they are made by, I'm going go with the first assumption though feel free to nudge me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

Well not many people have had published a full list of reads which makes matters quite difficult ( I should eventually get to publishing actual reads on people but I rather withdraw until Denominator and Fancy contribute a bit more to give me a more rounded and fair overview on them ) I think the person which has had the best reads so far is Superhans - despite my wariness of his jumpy playstyle, he has managed to actually get a quite townish/neutral read from Tob and no one other than myself has found his playstyle that scummy. Though once again it's very hard to decide as some reads are outdated and should be updated along with two members being inactive and not full reads made on all players.

[Lovesick]

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

I don't think it was that obvious until reviewed after the fact. It certainly wasn't mentioned until several pages after it happened.
I expect that scum, at least at the beginning of the game, are far more likely to defend their own rather than a random player, just because it's the natural thing to do.

Oh.. Do you consider utter voidance and distance inbetween two players during a game a scumplay or disregard as just no aknowledgement from either towards eachother?

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick, excluding yourself, who do you think has the best reads right now and why?

Im unsure of whether by this you mean the reads made on people or the person they are made by, I'm going go with the first assumption though feel free to nudge me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

Well not many people have had published a full list of reads which makes matters quite difficult ( I should eventually get to publishing actual reads on people but I rather withdraw until Denominator and Fancy contribute a bit more to give me a more rounded and fair overview on them ) I think the person which has had the best reads so far is Superhans - despite my wariness of his jumpy playstyle, he has managed to actually get a quite townish/neutral read from Tob and no one other than myself has found his playstyle that scummy. Though once again it's very hard to decide as some reads are outdated and should be updated along with two members being inactive and not full reads made on all players.

I didn't mean who is getting townread the most - I meant who has the best reads.

Assumption being that you weren't in the element to pursue on my behaviour towards Denominator, why do you think that I would associate myself with a player so strongly? Do you think a scum would blantantly and boldly defend their own? - This is not me defending myself but trying to gather what Connor thinks.

I don't think it was that obvious until reviewed after the fact. It certainly wasn't mentioned until several pages after it happened.
I expect that scum, at least at the beginning of the game, are far more likely to defend their own rather than a random player, just because it's the natural thing to do.

Oh.. Do you consider utter voidance and distance inbetween two players during a game a scumplay or disregard as just no aknowledgement from either towards eachother?

That's more dependent on context. Also, I'm not looking for "plays", or what players do intentionally. I think scum players instinctively (aka an unintentional pattern) help their buddies in the period following RVS more than other players.

Getting to the second page now.

Well I dropped hints throughout my explanation that deciding who has the best reads would be difficult w as Tob is the only person with a full list that is updated so Im going to say him.

If its more dependent on the context then why try to bring up a point which is all based on play? I don't think me defending Denominator was unintentional as that was my purpose and i was well aware that it was what I was doing. I mean personally I think that it was pretty obvious from the getgo that I was defending him in the sense that he shouldn't be bombarded with votes. A scum team can just as easily argue and bring points against each other as can two townies, it's all about play and motives.

[Lovesick]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

Haven't you been doing the same though? Isn't there much hypocrisy as you haven't stuck with votes which could get some good content out of them, Eg. Your vote on Nacho. However you jumped on every lurker wagon and stuck with it for longer than you should have?

[Lovesick]

You're very noncommittal, almost like you're a scum trying to blend in. I don't like the part of the game where you jump on every lurker bandwagon one after another. I like you voting LQ, but I don't like the reasons you ended up providing for it.

how many games have you played? I am interested because IMO you show great promise.

This is my first forum mafia game. I've played a little of SC2 Mafia/Town of Salem.

Don't know how good or how close SC2 mafia is to representing forum mafia but I definitely advise to not bring your plays into here from Town of Salem. The game is filled with a huge amount of players who play idiotically and lynch anyone who crosses them even if it's a confirmed townie. However I do suppose you could get good kicks out of th game as you do stumble across great players where the game could be very fun so I guess if you are being careful then you can bring parts of it in.

[Lovesick]

LQ, are you still townreading lovesick?

yup.

Is there any other reason for townreading me other than my emotional response due to my votes?

[Lovesick]

LQ, are you still townreading lovesick?

yup.

Is there any other reason for townreading me other than my emotional response due to my votes?

That is all I need.

I'm just curious to learn more if any of my other actions have swung you in that direction or not

[Lovesick]

Hi all if you have anything specific to ask me ask now. I apologise for my absence but this thread has exploded in a very busy weekend for me, and has ceased to become a game I can follow in idle moments.
I'll do a full read list and my game analysis this evening when I have a solid three hours to read and think. Until then as I said bring your most pertinent questions to the fore.

Have you read any of the posts over the weekend (Just want to know before i asked anything)

[Lovesick]

OK fully caught up, I was as thorough as I could be but may have missed something in all the chaos.

Secondly I understand I've been away and that might be frustrating for some but I'm here now and here to play.
I've been on a hot streak as town lately and would like that to continue, I want to win.

I'm here to engage and be engaged with, I find it's much easier to sort people when you are personally having a back and forth with them, which is what I am looking for.

On to my reads (In the order found on the first page):

Connor, I found Connor pretty scummy from the beginning of the game, mostly due to his voting patterns. He hopped on to a wagon with momentum, and then hopped onto the next one when it lost steam, he votes nacho, then hops off before Nacho even says anything when it's clear the wagon won't gain traction. I do however like his current push on Rautherdir (more on that later). I also found his tunnelling on lovesick vaguely town despite the fact that I disagreed with the wagon (tunneling in Newbs is a town tell for me). The jury is out here.

Rautherdir
Has flailed a lot this game in terms of his ability to read people, I've played a few games recently where I found this behaviour in newb-scum, basically they know their reads are wrong so they are paralysed to give them. Strikes me as posting the bare minimum and shows no real desire to catch and lynch scum, his case on LQ was essentially an ISO and I feel he may have been trying to capitalise on the LQ hate. The fact that he hopped onto the Dom wagon actually makes me question it's validity (and it's not a bad wagon). Top scum read.

toblerone187
Originally had him as a scum read for the same reasons I found Rautherdir scummy, has improved a lot in terms of apparent desire to catch scum. Still need to interact some more and on that note.

@Toblerone

You accused me of being scummy for asking you who you would kill earlier, can you explain what you feel my scum intent was here?

Superhan
Top town read, strong desire to game solve, easy to follow thought process. From an experienced player I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion but if he's newb-scum it's one hell of a performance.

Lovesick
Hard to say, tonally town in terms of outrage but as people have mentioned I don't see much desire to actually catch scum from her.

@Lovesick

, if you had to kill someone right now who would it be?

LicketyQuickety (SE)
The village idiot or the scummy mastermind, that is the question!
Probably the former, don't see a sinister scum plot from him. Could be wrong, and I've disagreed with A LOT he has said but that's not scummy. Probably town.

TheDominator37 (SE)
Scum due to process of elimination from town reads. Can't say anything else, need content obviously.

Nachomamma8 (IC)
Good questions, I see a clear thought process at scum hunting, genuinely wants to game solve. Strong town read, would be stronger if he wasn't an IC.

tl:dr
Nacho, Superhans and probably LQ are town.
Rautherdir is my best bet for scum for today.

VOTE: Rautherdir

I'm now excited for the game, feel free to ask questions and please answer mine.

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

[Lovesick]

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

I remember you talking about Superhan's behaviour before, can you summarise for me what about it you find scummy?

It is way too flaky, it's almost as if he can't make his mind up on one thing. He tries to pursue after a player but easily backs away as if to not be read by others, to not be put into the centre of attention and eventually put on the spot by others which I find that kind of play usually done by scum hence me not being convinced that he is a townie

[Lovesick]

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

I remember you talking about Superhan's behaviour before, can you summarise for me what about it you find scummy?

It is way too flaky, it's almost as if he can't make his mind up on one thing. He tries to pursue after a player but easily backs away as if to not be read by others, to not be put into the centre of attention and eventually put on the spot by others which I find that kind of play usually done by scum hence me not being convinced that he is a townie

Can you provide and example?

Earliest example I can think of is when he jumped the guns on me then after I made a minimal post he gave up and retreated instead of pursuing further like Connor did, as he could've gotten more content from me than he had as after one or two posts he unvoted.

[Lovesick]

Earliest example I can think of is when he jumped the guns on me then after I made a minimal post he gave up and retreated instead of pursuing further like Connor did, as he could've gotten more content from me than he had as after one or two posts he unvoted.

Hmm I suspect this is personal. Not buying scum Superhans from that.

I will find other examples later, i dont have that much time to be flipping through pages

[Lovesick]

@LicketyQuickety
This is D1, anyone could be scum, however, much you

want to suck them off

idolise them.

I have a Town read on Nacho, for really no reason at all.

Also,

@NachoMomma8,

I'd like you to critique my game after this game is over. It would be amazing to here what I have done horribly wrong in this game.

This is not anything to do with the game so count this post as fluff, but why are you repetitively insulting LQ throughout the game? You seem mad at him and it's getting quite excessive

[Lovesick]

Voting for yourself is scummy imho.
Join the Dominator bandwagon.

VOTE: TheDominator27

Shhould I vote toblerone187 because saying silly things are scummy is scummy (in this case saying silly things are scummy is scummy)?

UNVOTE: TheDominator37

May I have a reason with that unvote?

I voted TheDominator37 because the game had started and there was no solid evidence to base a lynching.

I actually voted TheDominator37 just because he had happened to have voted for himself that I joked was a slightly scummy thing to do.

I'm unvoting because I'm fairly sure I'll be voting more constructively, (I have my eyes on ConnorJC and LQ). I also will be happy to focus on any lurkers (although will probably wait a bit longer before considering the Lurker Wagon).

@ConnorJC, I'm struggling to keep up with Lovesicks constant barrage of waffle about how innocent she is.

Lovesick, no one cares about you being a lurker.
No one cares that you think it was a bad strategy to gang up on a random lurker (btw I think the strategy was kinda harmless).

Please can your next post have some original insight on who you suspect could be town/mafia.
What do you think about Rautherdir and the LQ vote?

For a variety of reasons, I would like to VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I'll have to leave for a bit, give me questions and I'll answer them in an hour or two.

^ You're such a tease Rautherdir
Pumped up for whatever logic (or whacky logic) you have for us.

I'm not hiding them, they are just too hard to say.

Scum read.

Kinda think my English teacher actually described the English language as being limited by the imagination, not limited by how "outside-of-the-box" your methods are.
Explain, also explain clearly (because you also have a habit of confusing everyone with even the simplest comments).

I don't care how long your explanation is, as long as it is sincere, and makes some sense.

F

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OK, so story time (yay!) When I first started playing the game, I got Scum read... a lot. I was lynched Day 1 8 times out of my first 16 games. People never understood my logic, barring few, and the ones who understood, really understood - they knew exactly where I was coming from and how to interpret my posts. Fast forward ~8ish months. I start seeing myself get Town read, not dying so early so often and generally having decent reads. Made it to late game a few times in my career and I am rarely wrong in Lylo as Town (never made it to Lylo as Scum). IDK when this was, but at some point when I was playing a Mafia game that was not really a Mafia game and I was 3p, I found that I am not too bad at breaking the system. My win con for that game is seen here:

Welcome to DragonCon, TheQuickOne!

You are the Indestructible 3p. That's right, YOU CANNOT DIE. (Unless you are modkilled. Don't make me!) Wincon is to be hit by a kill, investigated, and successfully target someone to protect them from Con Crud. You may choose one target to protect each cycle.

You are now a part of the Third Party team. You can hang out with them during the day here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/svsEDj2CzWC

You are sharing a room here: Room E - http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/HRnquyjjFCXXS

Your Roommates:
StaceofBass
hawkataine
Earthious
Tsubaki

You must choose a daytime destination in here no later than two hours before phase change. Violators will be fined and locked in the basement with the unwashed carriers of con funk. Or worse.

You have $100 to spend. You may borrow and lend, or buy, sell, and trade with other players.

All actions, day or night, must be in bold so I can find them easily, thank you very much.

I only had an inclination to it looking back, but this was really the game that I learned just how crazy I could play and not get Lynched/NKed. At the very start of the game I claimed that I was a treestump who got a passive guilty on someone N0. That person was lynched, while I was not. I ended up actually investigating myself and NKing my partner fulfilling my win con IDK when I did the curd thing but I think it was N1 or N2.

I was then stuck in no man's land for a long time, not really knowing how to use my weird style to my advantage. Suffice to say, I now play in a way where I know people are either going to get what I am saying, or they are not. The ones that don't I am going to try and learn how to use subliminal messaging to get them to understand what I am saying.

Story sounds great, but I actually don't care to read it, because I can't see how it can be that relevant to this game. Although Mafia is a complex game, the fundamental idea of the game is very simple, and honestly what is the point of that story?

I'm sure you're a creative genius, but honestly when you mention "Subliminal messaging" I couldn't help but snort with laughter. The only Subliminal messages you are sending to me with this post is that you think we're too stupid to understand your reads, which is why you couldn't possibly even consider explaining them.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I will unvote once you explain in DEPTH (two pages of A4 handwritten (thats four sides)) of

why you had a townread on ConnorJC post #30

(waay back)

Solid outside of the box analysis you have there Dr Freud.
UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

Basically your read is just gut, then... hmmm.

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

@FancyPants

Here's some earlier posts of Superhans where he acted flaky/indecisive and retreating on some of his claims. There's also somewhere among the quotations where Superhans tells me (I believe) to go get 'original' scum reads or something along those lines and he continues to tell players throughout the game to get original reads/posts which may be why players like Tob and Rauth hold back from speaking as things which they have thought or have an opinion about been spoke. I might be speculating way too far in this but yeah.

@Superhans what did you mean thoughout your posts by 'original'?

[Lovesick]

LQ defended it. Lovesick defended it, but then took that back. So I'm going to say one of them. Here's a suggestion though: don't flip-flop. It gets you lynched.

I didnt take me defending denominator back, i said i would no longer defend him because he's acknowledged whats going on but made no advances on proving himself what so ever.

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick
In response to post 672
In my opinion none of the votes/unvotes are flaky.
Post 18 & 20 were jokes during the early game.
Post 100 explains itself.
Post 246 is me excited for reads.
Post 350 is me trying to bait LQ.
Post 355 illustrates that it wasn't a serious vote.

Original means a read that is not a rehash, or a development of someone elses read.

I dont need an explanation for them. I was providing evidence for my claims.

Rehashing is frequent in mafia games as the players all see the same thing which iswhy similar thoughts and opinions are made. It's all because we get the same content unless there's a secret message/motive in them

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick,

After rereading the posts that just came in, I know don't think that Lovesick is as town. I'd say maybe leaning town.

@Lovesick, please provide some of your own reads.

I particularly don't think anyone is leaning town or mafia as of right now, however there are certain parts of people's playstyles which make me wary/cautious of them
[...]
Rautherdir - Justifying actions of others through Nacho's words and playstyle which I think is never justifiable as it is a preferred playstyle rather than something which should be followed.
[...]

What do you mean by this read?

That Nacho had said something about a certain playstyle and his preference and Rauth quoted his response to a pointi was making against you or connor, justifying yours or connor's actions because of Nacho's preferred way of playing

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick, what are your thoughts on a town (maybe PR?) Rautherdir?

Possible. He's a new player who's currently fumbling on his words out of pressure being put on him.. I've seen it happen to town and scum and all sorts of roles that these players come out as.
The more important thing here is how people would react to him making a claim on a power role.

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick
In post 686 I offer explanations to your argument in post 672. In 692 I get the impression that you didn't care for my explanation:

@Lovesick
In response to post 672
In my opinion none of the votes/unvotes are flaky.
Post 18 & 20 were jokes during the early game.
Post 100 explains itself.
Post 246 is me excited for reads.
Post 350 is me trying to bait LQ.
Post 355 illustrates that it wasn't a serious vote.
Original means a read that is not a rehash, or a development of someone elses read.

I dont need an explanation for them. I was providing evidence for my claims.

Lovesick are you saying you would rather I didn't respond, if not this, then what did you mean when saying "I don't need an explanation"? Also surely if your evidence can stand on its own two feet you would welcome any attempts to challenge it from me. You say that:

i like letting players speak their mind before I come to a conclusion on their action and possible alignment

So why didn't you welcome 686?

Reason I didn't want an explanation right at that moment was because I had throughout the game mentioned about how I don't like the flakiness of your behaviour and you had not addressed it until now. Which personally I dont think was a suitable time as I was simply providing evidence of what I had said, it didn't need an explanation from you as the question and request were for me. Had I or FancyPants saw the evidence as invalid that's where you should've came in providing explanations or If i had asked you for that moment to explain your behaviour. Notice in the post that you quoted that i said "conclusion", i had not concluded on you being scum or town; it was a simple observation which may lead to an conclusion had I asked you to explain it along with quite possibly a debate over your motives and what had encouraged you to act the way you did.

[...]
@FancyPants
Here's some earlier posts of Superhans where he acted flaky/indecisive and retreating on some of his claims. There's also somewhere among the quotations where Superhans tells me (I believe) to go get 'original' scum reads or something along those lines and he continues to tell players throughout the game to get original reads/posts which may be why players like Tob and Rauth hold back from speaking as things which they have thought or have an opinion about been spoke. I might be speculating way too far in this but yeah.
[...]

I distinguish between what is original and what is re-hashing in post 626. I think it is fine to re-instate a view which isn't your own, as long as you give credit, or it is relatively clear that you didn't create the view.

You're making it seem as though once someone posts a view, it's automatically copyrighted by them? Which is utterly bonkers. They don't need to credit anyone at all for having their own view and opinion which happens to be quite similar or the same as another player. Reason being is that we're all viewing the same content, the same responses, the same attacks which means that we all will have a lot of the same views unless someone pays close attention and analyses a post deeply where a conclusion might differ from everyone else. It is not helpful to say what someone else has said and it definitely would be more useful if they add more content if their view is similar to someone but if that's all they have then it's fine to post it as it is better than having a clean slate where we don't know their thoughts or opinions.

I know how to play however i stand by my point of not wanting to shift it the reason being there is not enough information or evidence which throws my scum radars off the face of Earth. I'm not someone who likes to follow or throw blame on someone else blindly without any form of evident supporting it as it's a risky move which could cost the game even if the ratio is 2:7

I would either kill Denominator for his constant absence from the game or Superhans because I don't like his flaky behaviour, it's way too careful almost as if trying to grasp attention but trying not to put himself in the spotlight which personally seems to me pretty scummy

I remember you talking about Superhan's behaviour before, can you summarise for me what about it you find scummy?

It is way too flaky, it's almost as if he can't make his mind up on one thing. He tries to pursue after a player but easily backs away as if to not be read by others, to not be put into the centre of attention and eventually put on the spot by others which I find that kind of play usually done by scum hence me not being convinced that he is a townie

Right now, do I throw your "scum radars off the face of Earth" or have you changed your gameplay to be more aggressive?
As you've clearly changed the standard of evidence you need to make reads, and the game has developed significantly since 132 where you say that at the time very was only enough evidence to cast one read.
Content has increased six fold, so you should be able to make a read on everybody.

Only because I don't like your behaviour doesn't mean that I automatically find you to be scum. It's the same scenario with Nacho about me not liking his playstyle but I didn't scumread him for that. As far as I'm aware my style hasn't changed, all I did was answer a question and you decided to defend yourself for some reason despite me not attacking you.

(I will write reads and post them when I finish)

[Lovesick]

If a player produces lots of original ideas that is a town read. Not producing original ideas can be a scum read, because scum players struggle to produce their own (good quality) reads, as they are based on something the scum player knows isn't true.

You haven't contributed enough imho, my post wasn't a defensive post, it was more of a nascent scum read on you.

[...]

Players You Haven't Made Reads On

These players you haven't made a read on at all. Now I think would be a good time.
1) Toblerone
2) LicketyQuickety
3) FancyPants
4) Nacho (You say that you have ill feelings about him in post 132 but then get annoyed at me I say you think he is sketchy, post 157.)

(Anyone know who to embed Youtube videos, I was gonna embed High Contrast's Lovesick, an absolute banger.

Answer these.

No not really, having good reads can literally mean nothing other than the opinion and thoughts on others. It's easy to see the flaws in other players' posts and etc; it's equally as easy to point them out. Clearly you haven't seen or played in a game full of players that have the same kind of experience as Nacho if you think that originality automatically means town.

I think in terms of posts and in terms of reading my playstyle, emotions; opinions on matters it has been enough. Your post trying to counteract what I had said - which was purely speculation and observation - is trying to defend yourself along with trying to make it seem like I automatically feel that you are scum only because I dont like the way you have been behaving. Just to prove your flakiness, the situation wih dominator is a prime example. He hadn't responded throughout the game and you were pushing him towards scum now that he has made posts which are literally of him agreeing with things, asking questions and putting some input into old conversations he is suddenly now town for you. I think you've proven my own point here but that may just be me

[Lovesick]

Omg lovestick its the dominator not denominator

Oh shit, im sorry its just some words click for me as others, didnt mean to do that lol

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

[Lovesick]

I messed up.

[Lovesick]

However continuing on from that awkward misclick.

To make up for it's absence and eventually redeem it? The only link i can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator however I think this link was unintentional as it was a mutual agreement on a disagreement of Nacho's views and points.

TL;DR some complex speculation with a link with no leads.

Null, waiting on more content from it

[Lovesick]

My post 781 is challenging Lovesick's lack of any meaningful content, and although the first half of 781 is me defending myself, the post is mainly (for me at least) an attack on how Lovesick has been playing so far. It is a nascent scum read post. Lovesick then responds 810, without addressing the fact that she hasn't contributed. (She says 'I'll write reads and post them when i finish, but so far this hasn't happened).

I'm worried that without applying pressure, (I'm not going to apply pressure through voting, as I think Dominator is more scummy), Lovesick will be able to weasel her way out, by posting low substance reads.

Hopefully, if I can convince more players to apply pressure onto Lovesick, she'll be forced into being more open with what she is thinking, and not just get away with a half-ass response.

Majority of this post is bullshit and you're simply trying to divert the attention of the players by trying to use a speculation which has no evidence behind it self other than a post where I said i had no clear reads on players other than dome thing which stuck out to me into pressuring me despite me addressing the fact that i need to post reads. As at the bottom you literally admit to trying to get players to pressure me on groundless speculations despite YOU yourself not posting much of a content filled read list

VOTE: SuperHans

Sorry if the vote doesn't work out^^ if it doesnt then could you @Plotinus fix it?

[Lovesick]

Some things*

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick, you're holding players to vastly different standards (On mobile right now, will post a more detailed explanation when at a computer). Also, as usual, you go straight for the self-defense.

Don't think there's an excuse for being on mobile unless you are out of the house (all my posts have be written on my phone)

Also the reason for me holding players on different standards is because of their situations. Dominator and Fancy came late into the game, Toblerone and Rautherdir are new but are showing genuine progress, Nacho and LQ are in the worlds of their own along with you and whilst I believe Superhans is also new, his behaviour has been nothing but scum like to me. I don't understand how I'm being defensive as I think I'm more or less pointing out the obvious whilst also acting all on frustration of him discrediting me throughout that post, constantly telling me to hurry up (despite me already showing acknowledgement to his requests and telling him that I will post them as I've finished them), unnecessarily trying to convince other players to also pressure me for "trying to weasel my way out" even though i had already promised to post my reads.

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

And I thought I was hard to understand. There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lets start with what should appearently be the elephant in the room: Nacho and I have sooooo soooooo little reason to use Scum theatre there its not even funny. I don't think I am going to say anything more on this right now, I will let Superhan dish it out on you first.

It's a theory in practice. Eliminating a possibility because there's little reason to do so isn't useful at all. It's not like it's my main read on the two of you, it's something im keeping in the back of my head

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

And I thought I was hard to understand. There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lets start with what should appearently be the elephant in the room: Nacho and I have sooooo soooooo little reason to use Scum theatre there its not even funny. I don't think I am going to say anything more on this right now, I will let Superhan dish it out on you first.

It's a theory in practice. Eliminating a possibility because there's little reason to do so isn't useful at all. It's not like it's my main read on the two of you, it's something im keeping in the back of my head

You have not proven that you can actually think on that level, ma'am.

Think on what level exactly? Everyone in this game has theories and no one is there to say whether they are plausible or not as they cannot be proven to be false unless one of the people in the theory die to prove their innocence or guilt depending on the theory. However my point stands that even if the two of you have very little reason to act that way, it still is a plausible theory until proven otherwise and the only otherwise here is death or if there is a cop. The latter less likely happening as in order for it to be proven false the cop would have to come out, that is

if

there even is a cop

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

And I thought I was hard to understand. There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lets start with what should appearently be the elephant in the room: Nacho and I have sooooo soooooo little reason to use Scum theatre there its not even funny. I don't think I am going to say anything more on this right now, I will let Superhan dish it out on you first.

It's a theory in practice. Eliminating a possibility because there's little reason to do so isn't useful at all. It's not like it's my main read on the two of you, it's something im keeping in the back of my head

You have not proven that you can actually think on that level, ma'am.

Think on what level exactly? Everyone in this game has theories and no one is there to say whether they are plausible or not as they cannot be proven to be false unless one of the people in the theory die to prove their innocence or guilt depending on the theory. However my point stands that even if the two of you have very little reason to act that way, it still is a plausible theory until proven otherwise and the only otherwise here is death or if there is a cop. The latter less likely happening as in order for it to be proven false the cop would have to come out, that is

if

there even is a cop

Plurality rule. You were already once proven wrong on your outlook of theory of the game. This happened when the argument came up on whether to pile on votes on lurkers or spread out the votes on different lurkers. So you have shown that your theory is not the norm. So you can't argue that your theory is just as valid as everyone else until flips because there are more people in this game that can die who disagree with you than agree with you.

Proven wrong? How so? As far as I'm aware the conclusion was that everyone has a preferable style of play and that my style differed from Nacho's and Hans'. That same logic which you applied can be reflected right back reason being as I mentioned I doubt everyone has only one theory - That would quite literally be nuts. Which means that there is a chance that almost everyone has a theory which more people disagree with than agree with simply based on the reads provided by other players. As reads themselves which conclude with the players' possible alignment are theories. Though i never suggested that the theory which i presented should be tested or kept in everyone's minds especially since I townread Nacho and said that the chance of ST between you and Nacho is low as was everyone else who was put together with Nacho on the ST.

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

And I thought I was hard to understand. There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lets start with what should appearently be the elephant in the room: Nacho and I have sooooo soooooo little reason to use Scum theatre there its not even funny. I don't think I am going to say anything more on this right now, I will let Superhan dish it out on you first.

It's a theory in practice. Eliminating a possibility because there's little reason to do so isn't useful at all. It's not like it's my main read on the two of you, it's something im keeping in the back of my head

You have not proven that you can actually think on that level, ma'am.

Think on what level exactly? Everyone in this game has theories and no one is there to say whether they are plausible or not as they cannot be proven to be false unless one of the people in the theory die to prove their innocence or guilt depending on the theory. However my point stands that even if the two of you have very little reason to act that way, it still is a plausible theory until proven otherwise and the only otherwise here is death or if there is a cop. The latter less likely happening as in order for it to be proven false the cop would have to come out, that is

if

there even is a cop

Plurality rule. You were already once proven wrong on your outlook of theory of the game. This happened when the argument came up on whether to pile on votes on lurkers or spread out the votes on different lurkers. So you have shown that your theory is not the norm. So you can't argue that your theory is just as valid as everyone else until flips because there are more people in this game that can die who disagree with you than agree with you.

Proven wrong? How so? As far as I'm aware the conclusion was that everyone has a preferable style of play and that my style differed from Nacho's and Hans'. That same logic which you applied can be reflected right back reason being as I mentioned I doubt everyone has only one theory - That would quite literally be nuts. Which means that there is a chance that almost everyone has a theory which more people disagree with than agree with simply based on the reads provided by other players. As reads themselves which conclude with the players' possible alignment are theories. Though i never suggested that the theory which i presented should be tested or kept in everyone's minds especially since I townread Nacho and said that the chance of ST between you and Nacho is low as was everyone else who was put together with Nacho on the ST.

How does that make you not Scum?

The proper question here is, how does having a theory make me scum?

[Lovesick]

@Lovesick
Post 997.
You make some logical observations, that is good town play. I also disagree with some of your logic which is why lots of this post will be me nitpicking.

(Also not being IC)

What do you mean by this?

That by him not being an IC, he could've had a motive to not help them but leave them helpless. Taken in consideration its not his role in this game to explain things but more so Nacho's.

However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

Hmm? What about 933 where Nacho reads Toblerone, and then suggests he needs to develop his Connor read. What about post 932 which is even longer? Also can you explain what you mean by "As Superhans or reven Nacho himself feel the need to"?

There are occasional posts where they are speaking to eachother but my point here was that Nacho's engagement with Toblerone was very minimal unlike with the rest of players where he usually nitpicks and questions them.

By that sentence I mean your and/or Nacho's tendency to nitpick at things which are said considering that you two do it often, basically its an example.

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)

Have I linked myself to any players in your opinion?

I feel as though there is a hard case link with you and Dominator as he has been the player which you've wanted to hear so long from and question himself about things. However I'm not exactly sure if you have done so with other players other than the times where you are constantly nitpicking and questioning people.

SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts.

^Interesting assessment of my character, how would you describe the tone in your content? @all the other players, how would you describe the tone of Lovesick's content? The word i would use if I were trying to write a character assassination would be "Indignant" and "Overly sensitive". People have previously described your content as being angry.

The tone in my posts definitely varies, in this particular post for example i tried to keep the tone quite neutral when writing each read however (Not sure if any other player has made this observation) my tone just grows more tired and somewhat impatient. Unlike my follow up post where the tone was simply angry. Im someone who's very influeneced by emotions so usually my posts are a resemblance of my emotions hence personally me thinking that it varies.

There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

<- The reason I unvoted Rautherdir was because i began to question whether he was scum.

That's understandable but here's a question, do you understand my point about you being indecisive/flaky?

SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

I post 626 specifically to encourage Toblerone to share his viewpoints. @Toblerone, at any point have I made you shy to post?

I'm still hung up on the the post where you corneres and attacked toblerone about his read on me and not being original which is why I said that as despite any encouragement a user may get scared to post their thoughts after once being attacked for it. Have you never felt like not doing something in these games after being attacked by another player for it?

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

This is a new read correct?

Yes

To make up for it's absence and eventually redeem it? The only link i can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator however I think this link was unintentional as it was a mutual agreement on a disagreement of Nacho's views and points.

Qhat do you mean by the only link I can find is LQ when it comes to Dominator, can you elaborate what you mean.

As i mentioned somewhere above about tone, by the time I had got to writing Dominator's read I was tired and impatient however upon reflecting back on your posts, you have also linked yoursef with Dominator.

Your Vote on Me

1001 Indignation Station. You think my post is bullshit, I personally think post 1001 is bullshit. Your main reason for voting on me (or at least what it all boils down to), is me accusing you? My accusations are 100% justifiable in the context that until your recent read list, your posts have been terrible and it was completely within my rights to pressure you as hard as I can to coughing up some legitimate reads. I feel I have succeeded, you'll say that you would have provided those reads regardless of my pressure. maybe.

You state the purpose of my post is to divert attention onto you, yes that is obviously what I am doing. I even explain why I am doing that.

My post 781 is challenging Lovesick's lack of any meaningful content, and although the first half of 781 is me defending myself, the post is mainly (for me at least) an attack on how Lovesick has been playing so far. It is a nascent scum read post. Lovesick then responds 810, without addressing the fact that she hasn't contributed. (She says 'I'll write reads and post them when i finish, but so far this hasn't happened).

I'm worried that without applying pressure, (I'm not going to apply pressure through voting, as I think Dominator is more scummy), Lovesick will be able to weasel her way out, by posting low substance reads.

Hopefully, if I can convince more players to apply pressure onto Lovesick, she'll be forced into being more open with what she is thinking, and not just get away with a half-ass response.

Majority of this post is bullshit and you're simply trying to divert the attention of the players by trying to use a speculation which has no evidence behind it self other than a post where I said i had no clear reads on players other than dome thing which stuck out to me into pressuring me despite me addressing the fact that i need to post reads. As at the bottom you literally admit to trying to get players to pressure me on groundless speculations despite YOU yourself not posting much of a content filled read list

VOTE: SuperHans

Sorry if the vote doesn't work out^^ if it doesnt then could you @Plotinus fix it?

My 'evidence' wasn't a post of you saying you had no scum reads, it was the fact that you literally did not have scum reads.

@Lovesick
My final question to you is a fluffy question: Are you finding this game fun?

I will respond to this and all the other posts directed at me tomorrow.

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum


Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.


Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)


LicketyQuickety - Right from the start he makes it obvious that his playstyle and judgement on players' is more outside the box and unique from the traditional ways or variations of so. Throughout the game, he posts his opinion of players or rather what he thinks their alignment is - as if constantly upgrading his read list. His playstyle almost being the exact opposite of Nacho's where he keeps his posts minimal but at the same time posting content by addressing usually more than one person in his posts; forcing them to post more content and defnd themselves in doing so. Right from the start, he seens to have a scum feel about SuperHans and seems to not like his playstyle or his actions; small commentary/remarks about Hans' posts with things such as 'Scum Post' (PST). Expressing his own thoughts in the simplest ways without much explanation behind them. Once again with the same point I made in Nacho's read, when him and LicketyQuickety were arguing (Over Rautherdir) this could've been an instinctive ploy into drawing the line between the two even thicker and deeper, dissociating themselves with each other however with my town read on Nacho, this is only a speculation if Nacho does turn out to be scum

TL;DR Playstyle unique, opposite to Nacho (PST), strong tension and disagreement with Superhans, interesting way of posting.

Null, I think it's more dependent on if Nacho turns out to be scum or not. Along with LicketyQuickety being quite hard to read due to the lack of emotion in his responses.


SuperHans - Started off as very passive and friendly however his playstyle being very silly - to say the least. After a while the silliness turns into flakiness where he is voting and unvoting frequently and giving up on leads after shortlived attempts of pursuing them. From the start SuperHans is seen questioning players frequenty and trying to interact with a lot of them at once, this is great as it is a display of how SuperHans felt then compared to now especially with players however this can also be seen as him just being distrustful towards his peers in the game and questioning them frequently to try and understand their motives. Talking about behaviour and playstyle, this changes for SuperHans drastically as he went from a passive, friendly player to a quite aggressive, irritable player. This is evident in his and Lickety's behaviour towards eachother within frequent posts. There is a questionable lynch which was made on Rautherdir however what was more questionable was the unvote to it. Rautherdir simply said "im not scum" to which Superhans replied with an unvote and just "K", this is followed up by SuperHans saying he is confused about what alignment Rautherdir is (Displayal of indecisiveness in his own actions) as if you have a lead on someone and you get confused about their alignment; why let them get away by unvoting? I feel as though his indecisiveness is definitely starting to rise my suspicion up and should rise the suspicion of other players up.

TL;DR Playstyle changed drastically, comments on flakiness, observation of distrust towards others (?), indecisiveness.

Definitely leaning scum, want a proper read list from him..


Toblerone187 - A lot of fluff from the start which might show confusion (Plead for guidance?) as his posts do not server a purpose other than to be a conversation start such as the joke votes right at the start. It feels as though he really starts to try and make posts with content which can be contributive, Eg. His very early (somewhat) reads list; making observatory posts which can used as references for him later in the game. His interactions are mostly with FancyPants, however I feel no link betwen these two due to Toblerone's disapproval of Fancy's actions early and throughout the game. His disagreement to it is very.. neutral? He doesn't seem to completely disregard and disagree with what FancyPants has to say and even takes some of his points in consideration which seems to me like he's learning from FancyPants. However his interaction with SuperHans has seemed to shy Toblerone away from posting his own thoughts and opinions (Specifically about players) which I honestly would like to see a bit more of.

TL;DR Fluff from start, genuinely tried to get into the conversations and participate, no link with other players other than Fancy, seems to be taking this game as a learning session

If he is as genuine as my observations have made him be then I think he's 100% town. However I want him to posts reads listing everything he thinks but his conclusions only being based on things which definitely swing the players into an alignment.


FancyPants - I suppose somehow ironically in terms of posts and their content FancyPants is very much like Toblerone with frequent opinions and thoughts on others being in his posts. Gradually making up as a reads list if you take the information from his posts on other players. His interactions with players seem to be evenly spread across, paying attention to what is being said and pursuing players who he finds are being quite "dodgy". However there isn't much more than that to him I'm afraid as he hasn't made any links with any players in particular nor acted in a questionable way.

TL;DR Being informative, need more.

Null however if he provides more posts with more content than im more than willing to redo this read.

TheDenominator37

TheDominator37 - I feel as though its self vote and then absence was purposeful. It was to stir conflict in other players and sit on the edge on whether it would come back, if it was scum or just speculation in general. My own speculation on its actions however are that knowingly that it was busy, it made 'controversial' posts and acted in an abnormal way; purpose? To create content and questions for it to come back to and make posts full of content and detail to make up for it'e

And I thought I was hard to understand. There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lets start with what should appearently be the elephant in the room: Nacho and I have sooooo soooooo little reason to use Scum theatre there its not even funny. I don't think I am going to say anything more on this right now, I will let Superhan dish it out on you first.

It's a theory in practice. Eliminating a possibility because there's little reason to do so isn't useful at all. It's not like it's my main read on the two of you, it's something im keeping in the back of my head

You have not proven that you can actually think on that level, ma'am.

Think on what level exactly? Everyone in this game has theories and no one is there to say whether they are plausible or not as they cannot be proven to be false unless one of the people in the theory die to prove their innocence or guilt depending on the theory. However my point stands that even if the two of you have very little reason to act that way, it still is a plausible theory until proven otherwise and the only otherwise here is death or if there is a cop. The latter less likely happening as in order for it to be proven false the cop would have to come out, that is

if

there even is a cop

Plurality rule. You were already once proven wrong on your outlook of theory of the game. This happened when the argument came up on whether to pile on votes on lurkers or spread out the votes on different lurkers. So you have shown that your theory is not the norm. So you can't argue that your theory is just as valid as everyone else until flips because there are more people in this game that can die who disagree with you than agree with you.

Proven wrong? How so? As far as I'm aware the conclusion was that everyone has a preferable style of play and that my style differed from Nacho's and Hans'. That same logic which you applied can be reflected right back reason being as I mentioned I doubt everyone has only one theory - That would quite literally be nuts. Which means that there is a chance that almost everyone has a theory which more people disagree with than agree with simply based on the reads provided by other players. As reads themselves which conclude with the players' possible alignment are theories. Though i never suggested that the theory which i presented should be tested or kept in everyone's minds especially since I townread Nacho and said that the chance of ST between you and Nacho is low as was everyone else who was put together with Nacho on the ST.

How does that make you not Scum?

The proper question here is, how does having a theory make me scum?

I am 95% Town right now, can you say the same?

No, but I can say that i am 100% town without a theory

[Lovesick]

ConnorJc - He started confidentally with an opening post where he immediately went to pressure LQ. I personally concluded to two scenarios, either ConnorJC overreacted and jumped the gun; using his own overreaction to pressure LQ or he was looking for a flaw instantly to then be able to nitpick on. This made it difficult for me to actually have any thoughts on him at the start. However throughout the next few posts he is helping some players and explaining things which leaned him to be town as I find it that if he were to scum (Also not being IC) he could've used their cluelessness as an advantage however he hadn't. However much later he is constantly asking for reads after providing minimal ones himself, this behaviour is followed by him acting like a puppy and following Nacho and LQ switching back and forth between the two. This pushed him more towards scum as that behaviour can be seen as a play of him trying to hide under their radar by playing a puppet. During this behaviour, Connor actually posted minimal amounts of contents with his replies consisting of 1 or 2 sentences. He ended up changing this to lengthy and detailed posts however recently he has relapsed into the short responses. As a matter of fact Connor has yet to post a proper reads list as his last one consisted of 3/4 people.

TL;DR he's switching between minimality and detail, followed LQ and Nacho around, hasnt posted proper reads.

Starting to lean towards Scum

The hypocrisy in this is amazing. You've barely posted reads this game and also flip flop between short and long posts (And how is that even scummy?). Plenty of people haven't posted a reads list since the Rautherdir/TheDom/FP stuff, but you go after only me?

Also, I'll admit I was sheeping nacho/LQ at the beginning of the game, but after I realized I was doing that it stopped. Please look at my recent posts for examples.

It was a build up from situations, behaviour and actions which piled up causing you to swing that way in my eyes. Thing is that with this, it was totally intentional to post reads later and I made that clear from the getgo that I was NOT going to post reads any earlier. Scream wolf all you want but my intentions with reads was obvious.

It isn't about the length necessarily but the content within those posts. Whenever you see fit, you put a certain amount of effort/content in your posts however when you dont see the opportunity you change to the one sentece or so posts. Either laziness on some parts or you just grabbing at chances to prove your worth when you see fit.

[Lovesick]

Rautherdir - As allegedly a newbie, he presented himself quite well at the start, posting minimal content; increasing getting longer and better. Rautherdir actually tried to participate the best he can at the start - making little notes to himself in his own posts and sometimes even wording his posts as if he were speaking to himself. His reads (Both times) were very minimal with either a piece of commentary or a short observation such as "You've been doing a good job so far" which doesn't help us at all as Rauth doesn't go into proper detail which makes it difficult to understand what he sees about the player's style which is good or what about it makes them town. However when I questioned about bandwagons, instead of Rauth creating his own reasons/opinions or even taking pieces of reasons from another player, he blatantly said that it was because of what Nacho had said. This to me seems as though Nacho has influence over Rauth and his actions. Potential scum team or noob move.

TL;DR good start, notes in his posts, minimal/almost useless reads, following Nacho like a pup (PST).

Null, need more lengthy/detailed content from him with proper reads.

You're ignoring his soft PR claim, which is possibly the most important play he's made this game. Why is Rauth agreeing with Nacho make him scum? Are you saying Rauth-Nacho are a scumteam?

Becase I think it was a mistake made by a new player out of pressure put on him.

He didn't agree with Nacho, he made it blatant that he was justifying his actions/others actions because Nacho said something about lynching as if using his as a wikia. Hence why i think Nacho has some sort of influence over Rauth. Small possibility of them being a scum team because I townread Nacho. Please refer next time to my other reads on players because this is just a repeat of what i said in Nacho's read.

[Lovesick]

Nachomamma8 - Had a strong start with almost instantly jumping onto pressuring players whilst also explaining things to the newer players, Nothing wrong it so far. However I do find early lynches to pressure players as bad sportsmanship especially if the player hasn't posted anything at all. Throughout the game Nacho is interacting with everyone, whether it is to pressure or question them about things - responses varying from long to medium. However right from the start LQ and Nacho start clashing because of their different styles of play, almost bickering within each response as they continue to disgree with each other this happens so frequently (With Connor hopping in between them) that it makes me think that it's planned? They're trying to draw a line between themselves so hard that this is either SvS or TvT as it seems too consistent. However I found another link between Nacho and Toblerone187 as Nacho makes very little conversation with him despite his engaging and active playstyle (Trying to be as separate as possible?) there's no reason for their avoidant behaviour of eachother unless they genuinely have nothing to question about eachothers' posts as much as SuperHans or even Nacho himself feel the need to.

TL;DR encouraged players to pressure and vote eachother, always posts content, suspicion on his and LQ's frequent disagreeing with eachother, suspicion on him avoiding toblerone's posts more so than other players'

Despite my suspicions, i feel as though he is town because there are simply too many links between him and other players (Something which in my experience, Scum avoid linking themselves to players)

Why can't the Nacho-LQ fight be SvT? What about Nacho tunneling TheDom?

Also, why is encouraging voting towny? Scum's entire goal is to convince town to vote town.

Because i said so. I dont think they are the opposite alignment that's why. Which is why if you think about it, i townread nacho so that means LQ is leaning town for me. What about the tunneling? What do you want me to comment on? I think it was justified after a certain point? And what the fuck is this vote thing town? The only time i mentioned voting was lurker voting and saying its bad sportsmanship.

[Lovesick]

First of all,

@Plotinus I am genuinely sorry for causing any stress during my absence

Second of all,
@everyone it was an enjoyable experience to be play with you but the fact that I live in a catholic household caused my time to be consumed with the festivity and celebration of christmas/new year.