Newbie 1767 | Winter | Endgame

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Selynee for some made up reason.

[Loopdan]

I'm at L-2.

@Huntress-- You had a choice of putting the third vote on either Selynee or me. Why'd you go with the more experienced player?

[Loopdan]

I'm at L-2.

@Huntress-- You had a choice of putting the third vote on either Selynee or me. Why'd you go with the more experienced player?

Why must we have a wagon?

Early pressure gets us out of RVS and people start taking stands.

[Loopdan]

I'm at L-2.

@Huntress-- You had a choice of putting the third vote on either Selynee or me. Why'd you go with the more experienced player?

Why must we have a wagon?

Early pressure gets us out of RVS and people start taking stands.

Doesn't seem to be working

Like I was implying... it usually works better on newbies than SE's.

[Loopdan]

Checking in.

I'll join Loopdan on voting Selynee since he's been here a while.

Vote: Selynee

Can you explain the bolded part?

[Loopdan]

Sure. Piggybacked on your vote since (I think) you were the oldest member who had checked in.

Why?

[Loopdan]

Two reasons:
I wasn't sure if it was a real or random reason for your vote.
I didn't get why, given your join date, you would sheep my experience (especially on an RVS vote).

[Loopdan]

Given my join date, did you expect I was making a

serious

vote based on sheeping your experience?

I'm not sure what I expected. Your vote reason looked close enough to a real reason, so I asked.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: TheBrie

[Loopdan]

@TheBrie-- Who do you think is most likely scum at this point?

[Loopdan]

I don't see what people are seeing about Brie so much.

I see a null player. Don't know what made people so eager to vote her. But I don't think that was scum motived.

If you don't know what made people so eager to vote Brie, why do you think it isn't scum motivated?

[Loopdan]

I'm slightly suspicious of SensFan and Loopdan. Perhaps because they seem to be trying hard to implicate me. Raskolnikov sounds more like a scum hunter. Suscious, but not trying to make everyone think people are guilty.

And now that three people have voted for me I'm a little nervous, because I'd rather not die just yet.

I've voted you, yes. But please point out where I've been "trying hard to implicate you" and "trying to make everyone think people are guilty."

I'll make it easy. Here is everything I've posted that is in any way related to you:

Spoiler:

VOTE: TheBrie

@TheBrie-- Who do you think is most likely scum at this point?

I don't see what people are seeing about Brie so much.

I see a null player. Don't know what made people so eager to vote her. But I don't think that was scum motived.

If you don't know what made people so eager to vote Brie, why do you think it isn't scum motivated?

@Brie
Assuming those voting you are town, why do you think they would be voting you right now, based on your posts so far?

[Loopdan]

Frederick/Brie scum-team

Lock up the thread and hit the Newbie Queue for your next /in.

[Loopdan]

I just used my

1-shot Game Solve Attempt

.

Once a game you can message the mod and they will confirm or deny your guess at the scum-team. You have to get both partners right or they just say "You are wrong." So like you can't just get partial credit for knowing one scum player.

It's rare to use it this early but I thought I'd give it a try. Penguin confirmed I nailed it and he should be along soon to lock up the thread and post the game ending. But we can continue to talk during this twilight period.

gg

[Loopdan]

At least three people know that.

Which three?

[Loopdan]

Also, Brie, your vote doesn't mean anything there in post 97. The game is over. Sorry it was so short.

I've honestly never seen a game solve shot hit so early, but I guess I got lucky.

@Huntress-- Is it poor form to take the game-solve shot early Day 1 in a Newbie game? If that's frowned upon I apologize. I know this is the Queue to teach newbies so I get it if that was bad play.

[Loopdan]

@Brie-- Why did you wait until after you checked the wiki before you voted me?

[Loopdan]

@Fredrick-- Why do you believe post 95 is more likely to come from scum than town?

[Loopdan]

@Brie-- Why did you wait until after you checked the wiki before you voted me?

Because even if the thing existed you were still lying.

That wasn't an answer to the question.

You said I was lying in 96. But you didn't vote. Then you checked the wiki and posted 97 with a vote.

My question is why didn't you vote for me in 96 if you knew I was lying about the 1-shot Game Solve Attempt?

Spoiler: relevant quotes here

I just used my

1-shot Game Solve Attempt

.

Once a game you can message the mod and they will confirm or deny your guess at the scum-team. You have to get both partners right or they just say "You are wrong." So like you can't just get partial credit for knowing one scum player.

It's rare to use it this early but I thought I'd give it a try. Penguin confirmed I nailed it and he should be along soon to lock up the thread and post the game ending. But we can continue to talk during this twilight period.

gg

I've never heard of such a thing. And you're lying about the answer. At least three people know that.

(Unless there was a mistake with the set up)

There's nothing about a game solve attempt in the wiki that I can find.
VOTE: Loopdan

[Loopdan]

@Huntress-- Echo has one completed game on site. He was cop. I replaced in as scum near the end. My buddy (Dunn) fake-claimed a cop guilty in lylo. Echo had a real guilty on me, but we were able to turn the lynch on him for the win.

I think his posts so far are bad in a lynchbaity way. You better have something more incriminating than what's out there now before he sees a rope.

[Loopdan]

I didn't answer your question. As you just said, "that is not what I was asking him about."

[Loopdan]

@Fredrick-- Why do you believe post 95 is more likely to come from scum than town?

I still want an answer to this.
VOTE: Fredrick

[Loopdan]

Rask is right. Echo's 125 is terrible.

[Loopdan]

@Fredrick-- Why do you believe post 95 is more likely to come from scum than town?

I still want an answer to this.
VOTE: Fredrick

What could town possibly do with a post like that? From what I see, the answer is plenty though. It has sparked up conversation, and of course makes analysis much more easier. But then, what was your intent?

You didn't answer the question. Why is scum likelier than town to write 95? If you don't think this, is there a different reason you are voting me?

[Loopdan]

@Fred-- I was focused on sorting Brie.

[Loopdan]

I intend to hammer Echo. I'll wait a couple days so he can claim and everyone can say their peace.

[Loopdan]

or just trying to read me by my reactions

This one.

If you are still unsure what I was up to, here's the explanation: It started as a joke in 92, saying I'd solved the game. You were confused and your "Even if you do know" comment in 93 made me wonder if I might actually be correct. So I milked it by half-jokingly claiming 1-shot Game Solve. SensFan played along. Then Penguin showed up with a post-count in 102 and ruined all the fun.

[Loopdan]

Huntress, what do you think of Sensfan and Loopdan. I'm sure they're not a team, but everything else about them is uncertain.

I haven't got a good read on Sensfan yet but he's looking townish so far. Loopdan I'm beginning to think may be scum. That question about Sensfan's vote felt weird, then there was the defence of Echo.


There's more I need to follow up on. I'll do that tomorrow.

What did you need to follow up on?

[Loopdan]

@lucca-- If you wanted more time, why did you point out the hammer didn't count?

[Loopdan]

I mean I'm not exactly up to date on my ancient site meta history but cmon. Newbie game.

a) I've seen a lot go wrong from letting people draw out a claim
b) I'm not convinced there's any claim that would have changed my mind on lynching him anyways

a) Like what? What have you seen go so wrong from letting people draw out a claim that this overrides the town benefit of getting a claim?
b) If he'd claimed a PR and there was no counterclaim you would still lynch? With that much time left in Day 1?

I don't see the town motive in what you did. I can see the scum motive.

[Loopdan]

@Brie-- Good players can look very townie. You should have the

least

certainty in your reads on the best players. That's my way of saying Rask is not likely to give up anything AI at this point in the game, so if you are town I'd encourage you to continue to revisit that read.

[Loopdan]

Huntress, what do you think of Sensfan and Loopdan. I'm sure they're not a team, but everything else about them is uncertain.

I haven't got a good read on Sensfan yet but he's looking townish so far. Loopdan I'm beginning to think may be scum. That question about Sensfan's vote felt weird, then there was the defence of Echo.


There's more I need to follow up on. I'll do that tomorrow.

What did you need to follow up on?

@Huntress-- We need content from you.

[Loopdan]

@Selynee-- Can you tell us about your game with Fredrick? You said before you couldn't read him. Impressions on him so far here?

[Loopdan]

^That is not a scum post for a player in her first game.

Brie and Selynee are both probably town.

[Loopdan]

I mean I'm not exactly up to date on my ancient site meta history but cmon. Newbie game.

a) I've seen a lot go wrong from letting people draw out a claim
b) I'm not convinced there's any claim that would have changed my mind on lynching him anyways

a) Like what? What have you seen go so wrong from letting people draw out a claim that this overrides the town benefit of getting a claim?
b) If he'd claimed a PR and there was no counterclaim you would still lynch? With that much time left in Day 1?

I don't see the town motive in what you did. I can see the scum motive.

a) Well, for one, apparently you won't lynch a Scum on D1 if you let them claim? (based on your b)
b) Uh, yes? 100% yes. This isn't an open set-up. Every Scum in here will claim a PR, and you won't lynch them if you back off on that. It's also probably not worth outing a Town PR to counterclaim a Scum that got run up this early.

I've seen countless people chicken the heck out of lynching someone based on a Cop claim or something similar.

I disagree with some of this, but that's not the point.

You didn't answer "a)". The question was what have you seen go wrong "from letting people draw out a claim"?

Your answer is about letting people claim, which is irrelevant. You demanded Echo claim, remember?

[Loopdan]

@Rask-- Do you agree with 253?

[Loopdan]

^That post is one giant scumclaim.

VOTE: lucca

Die.

[Loopdan]

In the history of this website there has never been a single post that said "weird" 5x and "I'm paranoid" 2x that ended up being town.
Says everyone is suspicious.
Fake wagon analysis "The wagon looks town except Huntress..." but no vote there.
And the @ questions are hollow attempts at looking town.

[Loopdan]

@Sens & @Brie -- Let's townbloc this for the win. Requesting more votes on lucca.

@Rask & @Sickofit -- You are the backup townbloc. Be prepared to be called up if the situation deteriorates.

@Huntress, @Fred, @Lucca -- sry fam

[Loopdan]

Looking back at Sens' posts so I can better answer Rask, and I realized I still have a question...

@Sens-- Was your first hammer attempt on Echo intentionally messed up or a mistake? (Re: 224)

[Loopdan]

@sickofit-- I knew I had a good feeling about your slot. I'm calling you up to the townbloc.

Scum is in:
Rask
Huntress
Fred
lucca

Also nobody should claim unless put at L-1 with an intent to hammer

.
@Huntress - In your role as IC, would you mind explaining optimal town play regarding town PR claims?

[Loopdan]

I mean I understand doctor not claiming would be good but why not BP? Waiting for L-1 to claim BP does nothing.

A BP claim after a no-kill night tells scum more than it tells town.

[Loopdan]

@Loopdan you put Rask as backup town then a little later said Rask was more likely scummy. I admit I'm uncertain on Rask too, but could you explain that? Also where is your town read on Sensfan coming from?

Rask is null. I included Rask in the possible scum list not because Rask looks scummy, but from POE after I started TRing sickofit.

[Loopdan]

Your townblock is Sens and Brie. Can you explain your sudden realization that Brie is Newbie Town?

Not a sudden realization. I think I first expressed that read in VOTE: 253.

[Loopdan]

Townblocks, especially where there's no solid information, tend to be either led by or include scum, which I think is very likel

I've said I have three TRs and, yeah, it's possible one of them could be scum. That's ok. Townblocks evolve as the game progresses.

I'd like to know who you think is town.

[Loopdan]

@Huntress-- Why aren't you answering 356? Who are your town reads?

[Loopdan]

If Fred flips scum, that vote by Huntress looks like a bus combined with the foundation for her mislynch push on me tomorrow.

So let's make this L-1.

VOTE: Fred

[Loopdan]

Someone asked why Sens is town.
In a nutshell, he is transparent and is making plays to catch scum. His reads are similar to mine. He also pretty early on eliminated in my mind the possibility that he is scum with either Fred or Brie. And I'm buying that his uncounted hammer was intentionally messed up to extend the day. To be fair, he's dropped a little bit the last page, but is still on the town side of my reads.

[Loopdan]

Where did your lucca scumread go?

It's weakened but still there.

[Loopdan]

I disagree nadpool

Who is nadpool?

[Loopdan]

@Huntress-- Why aren't you answering 356? Who are your town reads?

Why do you need to know? I don't often do full read lists in the first Day or two of a game, but at the moment my town reads are basically everyone who I'm not calling scum.

Scum often prefer not giving townreads as it limits their lynch options. You have noticeably not offered TRs.

[Loopdan]

So I put Fred at L-1. Then all hell breaks loose with accusations and votes moving around.

Yeah, I feel pretty good about the Fred wagon. If Fred is town I don't think the game loses focus off him like that. And if Fred flips scum, we need to examine the last couple pages Tomorrow.

[Loopdan]

So I put Fred at L-1. Then all hell breaks loose with accusations and votes moving around.

Yeah, I feel pretty good about the Fred wagon. If Fred is town I don't think the game loses focus off him like that. And if Fred flips scum, we need to examine the last couple pages Tomorrow.

Quoting myself because it is important.

I'm concerned with how Rask moved from Fred to Sens and then unvoted Sens shortly thereafter without moving back to Fred. With no stated read change on Fred.

I want to flip Fred.

[Loopdan]

@Loopdan I'm figuring you're partly doing it to get a read on Rask. What do you expect to find out either way he flips?

Rask is a helluva player, so while a scum flip of Fred looks bad for Rask, it certainly isn't 100%. I'm more marking it in case I am the NK so others can go back and look if I'm not around.

Whether or not Rask is scum, the way the counter-wagons sprung up so fast after Fred was put at L-1 is telling.

[Loopdan]

@Sobolev (which name do you prefer btw? Space is easier to type on the phone.)

I've looked at Fred's other game and he did better in it than this one. If you want to understand him, read it yourself. I'm going to go read your game. Wish people could do the same for me.

Brie is towniest of town. Never lynch this slot.

[Loopdan]

Less than 4 days left.

@Sobolev-- Please claim now.

[Loopdan]

Doc needs to claim today, as a doc would have an inno from N1. 2/6 conftown today would be great. And if doc doesn't claim today and gets NK'd, town loses the Night 1 save info.

BP should definitely wait to for L-1 with intent before claiming. If BP is NK'd tonight town loses no info. If BP survives tonight having a conftown tomorrow is better than having a conftown today. Also a BP claim at L-1 is very unlikely to be a scum fakeclaim as it is results in a 1-for-1 with only one scum left. Likewise, scum are unlikely to CC a BP claim.

tl/dr: If you are doc you should consider claiming at some point today. If you are BP you can hold off until you are about to be lynched.

[Loopdan]

I would argue, if BP exists, no death n1 implies BP was hit n1 and therefore scum would already be aware of who it is, so them claiming only gives town information.

Scum knows who they targeted N1, but scum doesn't know if their target was BP or if a doc made a save. If there is a doc they need to save that player again tonight, as scum will try to hit them again in case it was the BP.

Or am I missing something?

[Loopdan]

wait. misread something.

UNVOTE: Loopdan

what did you misread?

[Loopdan]

Basically what Rask did at EoD would have been scummy (and stupid) if Sobolev had flipped town.

With a scum flip it is NAI.

[Loopdan]

380 and 396.

weird.

yep.
Huntress needs to get more involved today.

[Loopdan]

NO DONT HAMMER SOBLEV

Unless he does something REALLY bad today, Soblev is NOT our lynch for today.

I think it's likely Sick tracked Fred/Soblev night one and Soblev didn't do the kill attempt.
I think scum thought ^those posts weree Sick saying he doc'd Soblev and that's why scum NK'd Sick.

[Loopdan]

NO DONT HAMMER SOBLEV

Unless he does something REALLY bad today, Soblev is NOT our lynch for today.

I think it's likely Sick tracked Fred/Soblev night one and Soblev didn't do the kill attempt.
I think scum thought ^those posts weree Sick saying he doc'd Soblev and that's why scum NK'd Sick.

I'm going to backtrack on this. Just went through Sick's iso and he had Fred/Sob in his lynch pool yesterday. His reluctance to lynch the slot was most likely because he was pushing hard for a lucca lynch. He thought scum was in Sens, lucca, Fred and didn't waver from that the whole day.

[Loopdan]

Because I was pretty much useless D1 and didn't vote (though I wanted to vote Echo), my starting vote is going to be pretty risky, but I guess at this point a 50-50 read is worth it.

VOTE: Raskolnikov

I really hope you didn't just do what I think you did...

Actually nvm.

I interpreted Selynee's post as meaning that she had either blocked or tracked Rask:
1. A block would mean that Rask was either the target or mafia who tried to kill,
2. A track would mean that Rask was either the doctor or mafia who tried to kill,
hence why it was a 50-50 read and a risk.

Rask's responses looked like a town reaction to me, but not that of a VT. However, now that we know Selynee was a tracker, and Sickofit wasn't protected, it looks like Rask was the one who tried to make the kill night one.

Vote: Rask

The above was the reason I was town reading Sickofit and Rask yesterDay, and also the reason I didn't want to to discuss my townreads when Loopdan asked me for them. And he still hasn't answered my question as to why he wanted them.

I've got to go out now so I'll follow up the other posts in a few hours.

If your interpretation is correct (and I think it likely is) and we have a BP, they should be voting Rask if they are not already. Actually a Doc should be too.

Based on this, the only way Rask is town is if he is Doc, right? But Rask already rescinded the "soft" CC to BP.

I said I wanted your TRs because scum doesn't like outing their TRs.

[Loopdan]

I believe selynee misunderstood her role; the most likely is she had 3 scumreads, she tracked one of these and got a "no-result" but interpreted it as as innocent. Then in her remaining pool was me and another which is probably why she took a shot in the dark with that read.

Show us textual evidence of this theory.

[Loopdan]

Sickofit's play also doesn't match that.

Why not?

[Loopdan]

if sickofit tracked me to someone I'd imagine he'd have been a little more suspect of me.

Unless he correctly realized there was a 50/50 chance you doc saved the player you targeted.

[Loopdan]

I agree that doc should out so we have 2/6 conftown.

[Loopdan]

This is stupid, a "50-50" read is an expression not a role crumb. Not from a new player like selynee anyways, if we're arguing that a newbie advance crumbed in their first game.

At the time I made the same mistake, though I thought it was a jailkeeper save, but now I know it's not true because it simply doesn't make sense with tracker.

I believe selynee misunderstood her role; the most likely is she had 3 scumreads, she tracked one of these and got a "no-result" but interpreted it as as innocent. Then in her remaining pool was me and another which is probably why she took a shot in the dark with that read.

There is no way Rask believes this.

VOTE: Rask

L-1

Please no derphammers. I can't see moving my vote elsewhere, but we need to talk about this more.

[Loopdan]

Rasko, are you the PR?

Rasko won't claim.

scum!Rasko can't fake-claim, as scum loses the game here with a 1-for-1 trade with PR.
town!Rasko wouldn't have rescinded the soft PR claim.

[Loopdan]

I believe selynee misunderstood her role; the most likely is she had 3 scumreads, she tracked one of these and got a "no-result" but interpreted it as as innocent. Then in her remaining pool was me and another which is probably why she took a shot in the dark with that read.

Show us textual evidence of this theory.

How am I supposed to know what was going through her head?

You said this theory was "most-likely." Show evidence to back this up. If there is no evidence for this then I don't see your theory as more likely than the simpler explanation that Selynee tracked you N1 and you visited someone who didn't die.

I can't explain something I'm not sure of myself... I know I'm town and I can only speculate as to this. Either she misunderstood something or it's not a crumb, one or the other, idk what else to say.

...or you are scum.

[Loopdan]

Loopdan, of the other players who do you think is most likely to be scum?

I'd like to know that too.

If Rask is town then Huntress needs looking at.

But I'm very confident that Rask is scum.

[Loopdan]

town!Rasko wouldn't have rescinded the soft PR claim.

This is false. The point of that gambit is to bait the nk for that specific night and prevent CCs as-of-then. It failed in the former sense and retraction was 100% necessary on remaining alive as having the actual pr claim entirely defeats the purpose.

Yes, if you were VT that fake soft and rescind makes sense, but you aren't VT.

What I'm saying is that you are either doc or scum. And if you were actually doc you wouldn't have rescinded the claim.

[Loopdan]

Sicko thought Rasko was the doc. You can read the underlines on his posts. Observe that in no post Sicko tries to read Rasko. He thought 100% that Rasko was the PR, probably because of Rasko reaction to Selynee's vote on him.

I don't think you're the type of player to endgame yourself as scum or to troll post-lynch.

We dun goofed. Sorry Rask.

[Loopdan]

Quote is out of context. Was about to comment on that but nevermind.

[Loopdan]

Also, if I am doc I protected Sens N1.

[Loopdan]

Are you saying you self-hammered as the last scum, or that Huntress is the obvious lynch tomorrow?

Don't play with my heart Rasko!

[Loopdan]

Rask didn't lose because of the fake CC at EoD. That play was fine. I knew based on my role that both Sob and Rask's claims were fake, and I viewed Rask's claim as NAI. Good town players make all kinds of plays at deadline to sacrifice themselves to save the PRs.

Rask lost due to being tracked N1. I don't think anything could have saved Rask's game after Sick flipped Tracker. At that point I knew I had been targeted N1 and I couldn't help but think back to reading Rask's thoughts about me in the scum thread of our last game.

GG all.

Thanks for the excellent modding Peng.

[Loopdan]

I really enjoyed this player-list. I love Sensfan's play-style. When he played along with my fake 1-shot Game-Solve claim, I knew if he was town we would have a fun game. Brie picked up this game really fast! Lots of newer players would have had a hard time moving off their early scum read on my slot. It's to Brie's credit that she was able to re-eval priors there.

I think this was my first game with Huntress, and it's probably fair to say our suspicions were mutual throughout the game. In the end we were on the right wagons together, and that's all that counts.

[Loopdan]

I can't believe you rolled BP tho geeeeez

The best part is when I saw I was BP with you in this game I was really hoping you had rolled scum again.

And when there was no night1 kill I just

knew

you had to be scum, but my head kept reminding me not to confbias.

[Loopdan]

Didn't this game start before the other one finished?

I was already in the dead thread in 1857 when this started.

Also it's weird how different you're style is from TTTT to here.

Is that an alt thing or a newbie-queue thing?

I've tried hard to keep the play-styles distinct, so that's good to hear. I'm finding it's more fun to play TTTT than Loopdan outside Newbie games, and Loopdan is a better experience for new players than TTTT, so I'm planning on keeping this account in Road to Rome and using TTTT for the other stuff.

[Loopdan]

That avatar is kind of like peanut butter and pickles. Some people hate it and yeah everybody hates it.

[Loopdan]

nd I couldn't help but think back to reading Rask's thoughts about me in the scum thread of our last game.

How ever did you manage to find it in that huge mess of a pt?

Reading scum threads is the best thing ever. But yeah, I did remember that wrong. I knew you had wanted me dead in the other game, but I obviously hadn't read the scum PT yet.

Just finished reading Rask's heavy lifting in the scum thread for this game and kinda feel for that bad break.