Newbie 1706: Cocktail party GAME OVER

[Radja]

Day 2, VC 4

SirCakez (1)

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RadiantCowbells

Robert E Me (1)

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Xisiqomelir

Not Voting (5)

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alban, lucca261, Robert E Me, SirCakez, Nachomamma8

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch! Deadline is on June 8th at 09:30 PM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-06-08 21:30:00).

Mod Notes -
alban is on V/LA until Wednesday
Robert E Me has been prodded.

[/quote]

[Nachomamma8]

In that case, I actually liked your reaction. Even if the case that I made against you is not the strongest one, and was pretty easy to answer, I get your points and maybe what I think it was scummy wasn't actually scummy, I will unvote for now, because I think, so early in the game, that getting on a back-and-forth with you, it would prevent me seeing other options, maybe even making me tunnel. So,

This post was surprisingly genuine. For one, I liked how Lucca went back through Jae's back and forth when Jae said that Lucca was approaching the situation wrong; the part that he was misunderstanding (where Jae linked back to a past game) made sense as a reason to misunderstand. Unvoting almost immediately because it will "prevent him from seeing other options" also seems like a pretty creative reason to back off an early wagon as scum; I don't think scum is thinking this deeply in RVS when play hasn't advanced very far past "see how other people are playing; copy them".

I know it is. I'm not blind to it. It's just that I'm proving a point that any sort of fake reads and knowing that the read is fake doesn't help anyone.
Here, you can think of what to say, how to react. You can pull up past time you were town and try to mimic your very real town reaction. I know anyone who votes me doesn't have anything against me, and I know anyone I vote knows I don't either.

I'm actually complaining about how fucking around the beaten down bush doesn't help town. This is very bad.

I've never really understood the perspective of people who complain that the RVS is worthless and then does absolutely nothing to progress it.

Why? Even I, that wrote the post, can see a few logic errors on that post. Why the sudden townread with less than two pages of game? Also, in #40 you said that you agree with Jae that the meta contribute to the defense. That's something I was against on my post.

Questioning why he's being townread early seems like a pretty townie followup.

Jae: Very enthusiastic. Maybe too much so. 1/3rd out of the total posts by him. Comments on each and everything. Too analytical? Don't like that. Can read more than necessary into things. Since posts such long and so many posts, can't bring myself to read it. Also, too much flip-flop of votes. Votes Cakez. Then votes Data. Current vote on Cakez. All this within first three pages. Likes attention and being given too. Is that a clever mafia strategy or attention-seeker citizen? Dunno yet.
Read: Null to slightly scummy.

I didn't really like this read; in his first game, he played with a couple of people who were overly analytic just as Jae is and he didn't really have the same response to them there than he did at all.

36 possible partnerships. Hell of a high number to exclude pairs one by one. But fun to do that, especially to come back and read it once the game is over, if my reads were correct. So here goes,

On the other hand, this type of analysis is the type that I've come to expect from him as town (not this partnership piece specifically, but analysis that approaches the game from a radically different angle), and am not sure that he thinks to fake this type of thing as scum.

If you give me the exact explanation of why you did it (and it matches my previous thoughts), that's an insta tr.

I think you were baited.

The rest of his post is a lot of words but nothing even remotely useful/interesting except for the Robert townread, which is not something that I understand at all. I sort of liked his "I'm playing to get nullread" point because I'm not sure why scum would say that and don't see a way where he could expect that to get him towncred, but it isn't a very strong piece in particular.

When they answered, I found his answer good. I read it and thought: wow, this was a town reaction. I thought, if Jae was scum, they could easily gone for me, because my case of they were not that good, you know. I think a scum player would pressure me, maybe even vote me. But they tried to see my point of view. And they said, that when I responded, they were gonna judge it. On this phase, my read on they was a town read, after Jae's strong reaction post.

I can sense that this is probably going to become a recurring theme since I would already be very impressed if Lucca was scum and it's only Page 4, but I think that reading Jae town because "they tried to see my point of view" is a pretty town sentiment; I think that town are much more concerned about being heard and getting their perspective out there and, again, I think that it would be pretty impressive if Lucca as scum managed to tap into that so early.

You are inconsistent with your votes, verbose without adding anything susbstantial to the game, clever by siding with people who are in the clear for now, targetting those who are absent or not liked by other players, and taking hard stands without a shred of proof or even a theory? How do you do all this by yourself? Oh wait, you are they. Makes total sense.

VOTE: Jae. The town will not lose anything substantial if we lose you.

Having trouble seeing a world where alban as scum gets a lot of shit for his earlier readswall and then decides to rectify it by telling one of the most universally townread and influential players in the in the game that the town isn't losing anything substantial for losing them. The only reason I can see someone as scum doing something like this is if it fits into their general personality and it definitely doesn't fit into his.

I can see how this ends. On my eventual lynching, when you learn that I flip town, those of you who are suspecting me will need to justify and will have a justification ready. You will send another barrage of verbose posts implying how I deserved getting lynched for writing an apparently scummy post, but never admitting that your heads were buried so deep in your asses that all you could smell were your own confusions. You are entering a tunnel, townies. Good luck with that!

I have very limited time, so I am not gonna spend it defending my alignment. I am not resigned. I don't care what you think of me. Someone said before, I guess Lucca, that not caring is anti-town. No, it's not. Not caring doesn't mean not caring about the game. I know who I am. You don't. So, you guys figure it out. And hey, if I am so bad, it's better to lynch me and get rid of me, right? So in any case, it's not an anti-town behaviour. It will help you eventually.

And, again, don't see how anyone can read posts like this as anything but town.

This is more scummy posting. Jae, Jae, Jae. Can you talk about anyone else? You are at L-1, there are three other people voting you besides Jae. Why are you avoiding talking about anyone else other then Jae?

This seems like an exceptionally terrible point. I don't think that alban tunneling on his top scumread who is driving on the wagon is a particularly big deal and I'm not really sure that I buy you thinking otherwise. I also didn't really like the OMGUS point either; yes, he suspected Jae after Jae suspected him, but do you really think that's a particularly strong indicator of alignment? The only part of your case that I can't really pick at is the part where you suspect him for not fully responding to all the points against him, but I also don't think that's alignment indicative when someone was as frustrated as he obviously was at that point in time.

A new player does not change a slot's alignment. Lurking out until replacement is almost invarably scummy behaviour, and my vote is not changing.

How is lurking out until replacement scummy over null, especially a newbie game? The more reasonable explanation to the one that you're implying is that he simply got board of the game and left/forgot about it.

Robert's 195 was pretty uninspiring, as is Laser's subsequent post. I think that the way that Robert found himself on the alban-scum side was pretty weak; he said "alban, I see some of your points, but Jae is town and thus you are scum", which doesn't at all seem natural especially when he doesn't express why he finds alban scummy in the first place (especially when it looks like he doesn't think the posts casing Jae are bad).

Discussion is pro-town. I feel a lot better about you.

This was a pretty lame reason for a townread.

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.
Robert 214, 215, 223
Xi 178, 223
Me 180, 181, 215
Laser 214
Tank 133; Vox 180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)
Singer 115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

I think that this touches on a good point for Cakez!scum in that he always seems to criticize people for not scumhunting enough, but hasn't really done too much along the lines of visible scumhunting himself.

singer disagrees with me because my reasons are shallow. According to singer. The end.

And I don't think those are really bad reasons to scumread your push on the slot; they're shallow reasons and the foundation they're built on doesn't really make any sort of rational sense. Why is flaking out of a game scummy?

If you want me off alban you really need to sell me on it. I believe he's done nothing townie. Tell me how I'm wrong with evidence. Keeping in mind I find

his flail

, insults,

and ate

to be caught a sum. Show me why I should read him as misunderstood town.

These are my main reasons to consider him town so there cannot be agreement on this subject, it looks like.

As I said, so long as people maintain adequate paranoia and continue to question motives and not simply actions, town will be fine. If removing alban from the game helps you and cakez with this, it's for the better if he goes.

I'm not sure what to make of you resigning yourself to an alban mislynch so quickly.

I don't like Cakez's reaction when RC replaced in; his confidence level on the Laser slot seemed to shoot up unnaturally, and the attack on him for making short comments and not explaining all seem pretty not alignment indicative based on meta that Cakez should be aware of.

[Nachomamma8]

Right now, I'm hard townreading alban/lucca and wouldn't lynch in the pair ever. I think that Alban's attack on Jae early is something that would be extremely weird coming from scum who got as much negative attention for 69 as they did; the frustrated "lynch me" follow ups also seem pretty genuine, and I also liked the ambition in his trying to eliminate from 36 possible pairings early, but I think the big point here is the attack on Jae since most don't seem to see the same genuineness that I do so far.

Lucca made a lot of really town posting early and I sort of shifted into skimming his posts after his push and retraction of push on Jae. I'll probably try to focus heavier on his posting on the second half of his posting for my sake, but most people seem to be townreading the slot so talking about it doesn't seem particularly important right now.

I liked Xisi's townread on Alban and I liked how he engaged with Jae on what to do after Alban flipped town. I wasn't so crazy about his early push on Vox and I wasn't so crazy about how he had a strong townread on alban but then was willing to let him die to help two townreads sort things out on Page 12.

Robert's been a big pile of underwhelming.

Laser used a lot of words to also say nothing, but that's more of a null tell in newbie games and he did say some things that I kind of liked. Nothing's really stood out in RC's posting yet.

The two things that I didn't like from Cakez was his attack on Alban (he was attacking him for a lot of things that aren't scummy at all and he should know better + the suspicion came at a pretty opportunistic time), and his reaction to RC (him telling RC he replaced into a "scum slot" was a pretty strong increase in read compared to his suspicion on Laser before and his followups so far haven't looked so hot).

Vote: SirCakez

I think that Cakez is probably scum unless his posting gets way better in the second half of the game, but would be extremely unhappy with a lynch before I've caught up; I'm stopping here for today but should finish by either tomorrow or the day after depending on how rough work is tomorrow and how badly I want to play Fire Emblem.

[SirCakez]

The two things that I didn't like from Cakez was his attack on Alban (he was attacking him for a lot of things that aren't scummy at all and he should know better + the suspicion came at a pretty opportunistic time), and his reaction to RC (him telling RC he replaced into a "scum slot" was a pretty strong increase in read compared to his suspicion on Laser before and his followups so far haven't looked so hot).

I'm not going through all of that but this is bogus.
The Alban suspicion appeared at the same time as everyone else since he scummed up ridiculously, there was nothing opportunistic about it.
Laser was my top scumread consistently, there was no "increase in read". I was pushing Alban over Laser solely because I couldn't get support for Laser, which is another scum pointer for the slot.

[Nachomamma8]

The Alban suspicion appeared at the same time as everyone else since he scummed up ridiculously, there was nothing opportunistic about it.

You put Alban at L-1 when you hadn't expressed suspicion on him before (I think, but I'll go back and check it if I have time). I understand that it was a time when a lot of people were suspecting Alban, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to suspect that you were taking advantage of the wave against him at that point.

[Nachomamma8]

Your opinion on RVS was part of the reasoning for my vote, yes. I think you are putting far too much discredence onto the power of votes and it reads like a scum tactic.

This is a post I really don't like. Laser is basically telling Jae to stop engaging with him which I have a big problem with as Jae is probably the most active and engaged player in the game. Looks like scum trying to get an aggressive player to back off.

Laser is definitely my top scum read now with how he reacted to Jae's questioning.
Singer now leans scum with Tank, both still have yet to produce serious content. Still waiting on both to contribute more.

I don't think I'm exclusively tunneling you. I've expressed scumreads on others, I'm analyzing other's posts, and I'm going to vote Alban soon. This feels like a strawman, making yourself to be the victim.

I'm running out of time, but this is your push on Laser, for the most part. I don't think this is the push of someone who is extraordinarily confident (you didn't encourage other people to vote him, etc) and I'm not sure that the way you pushed it aligns with you later greeting the replacement by telling him that he replaced into a scum slot.

[lucca261]

Reading right now. Posting soon.

[SirCakez]

The Alban suspicion appeared at the same time as everyone else since he scummed up ridiculously, there was nothing opportunistic about it.

You put Alban at L-1 when you hadn't expressed suspicion on him before (I think, but I'll go back and check it if I have time). I understand that it was a time when a lot of people were suspecting Alban, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to suspect that you were taking advantage of the wave against him at that point.

And what it makes so I was taking advantage and others weren't?

Your opinion on RVS was part of the reasoning for my vote, yes. I think you are putting far too much discredence onto the power of votes and it reads like a scum tactic.

This is a post I really don't like. Laser is basically telling Jae to stop engaging with him which I have a big problem with as Jae is probably the most active and engaged player in the game. Looks like scum trying to get an aggressive player to back off.

Laser is definitely my top scum read now with how he reacted to Jae's questioning.
Singer now leans scum with Tank, both still have yet to produce serious content. Still waiting on both to contribute more.

I don't think I'm exclusively tunneling you. I've expressed scumreads on others, I'm analyzing other's posts, and I'm going to vote Alban soon. This feels like a strawman, making yourself to be the victim.

I'm running out of time, but this is your push on Laser, for the most part. I don't think this is the push of someone who is extraordinarily confident (you didn't encourage other people to vote him, etc) and I'm not sure that the way you pushed it aligns with you later greeting the replacement by telling him that he replaced into a scum slot.

Notice how I said top scumread in the third quote. Laser was my most consistent scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we just get rid of this incredibly vexing man?

[Xisiqomelir]

Can we just get rid of this incredibly vexing man?

I'll shift back if you can provide town a winning gameplan in the case of you being wrong about his alignment.

Cakez=town, you=town is consecutive mislynches and not a pleasant scenario.

[Radja]

Looking for a replacement for Robert E Me.

[SirCakez]

RC isn't town though Xis, so that's not an issue.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we just get rid of this incredibly vexing man?

I'll shift back if you can provide town a winning gameplan in the case of you being wrong about his alignment.

Cakez=town, you=town is consecutive mislynches and not a pleasant scenario.

Umm.

Lynch Nacho and Robert E Me consecutively.

Everyone else is town 100%.

[alban]

Jae: Very enthusiastic. Maybe too much so. 1/3rd out of the total posts by him. Comments on each and everything. Too analytical? Don't like that. Can read more than necessary into things. Since posts such long and so many posts, can't bring myself to read it. Also, too much flip-flop of votes. Votes Cakez. Then votes Data. Current vote on Cakez. All this within first three pages. Likes attention and being given too. Is that a clever mafia strategy or attention-seeker citizen? Dunno yet.
Read: Null to slightly scummy.

I didn't really like this read; in his first game, he played with a couple of people who were overly analytic just as Jae is and he didn't really have the same response to them there than he did at all.

It doesnt matter since your subsequent posts clear me, but analysis of the similarity between jae and other players is wrong. Jae is nothing like Io, Witch, or anyone from that game. If anyone, Necro. Jae was Necro's analytics combined with Witch's typing ability. Wish it was the other way round!!

I will write more very soon.

[Radja]

species replaces Robert E Me
Nachomamma8 has been prodded.

[species]

Hello lovely people, how is everyone doing??

Tomorrow is hangover day so I'll have plenty of time to lie in bed and read up, in the mean time pls tell me who is scum

(hint: it's not me!!)

[species]

(I'm looking at you Xisiqihbgqvdghv!)

[Nachomamma8]

Hi species! Tomorrow is hangover day!

[RadiantCowbells]

I've probably done all my content for today.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

[species]

Idk about you guys but I wanna look for at least one scum on the Vox Dei wagon.

[Xisiqomelir]

Idk about you guys but I wanna look for at least one scum on the Vox Dei wagon.

Please do so. Why no vote yet?

[RadiantCowbells]

Leaning Robert/Cakez over Singer/Cakez as of 570.

[lucca261]

Posting for the cellphone now. I've been moving out, and my access to internet is getting harder and harder, so my posts now are going to be short.

Don' t like the Species introduction. He enters, posts no opinions, nothing of relevance, just that it does seem to have scum on the vox wagon. I did not like robert for town and now i'm not liking you either.

Alban needs to post soon, just so we know he is on the game. I want some content now from his spot. The problem of this game is that the 1v1 is getting all the spotlight, and all of us already wrote our opinion on the matter, so there's not much to write now. Waiting for species and alban now.

[alban]

Sorry for postponing. Its midnight right now. Had only 2 hours of sleep over the weekend. Will write a detailed post tomorrow.