Newbie 1706: Cocktail party GAME OVER

[JaeReed]

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

[JaeReed]

Jae, so why did you seek approval if you had participated in RVS before then?

Was joking about. Kinda bummed people ignored my tank > bus > scum :p I thought I was being clever.

[LaserVP]

I know it is. I'm not blind to it. It's just that I'm proving a point that any sort of fake reads and knowing that the read is fake doesn't help anyone.
Here, you can think of what to say, how to react. You can pull up past time you were town and try to mimic your very real town reaction. I know anyone who votes me doesn't have anything against me, and I know anyone I vote knows I don't either.

I'm actually complaining about how fucking around the beaten down bush doesn't help town. This is very bad.

[datanksta1213]

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

[lucca261]

I like lucca for town in #35.

Why? Even I, that wrote the post, can see a few logic errors on that post. Why the sudden townread with less than two pages of game? Also, in #40 you said that you agree with Jae that the meta contribute to the defense. That's something I was against on my post.

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

Wanted to wait the JaeReed reaction to my post and my unvote. Will be touching that soon.

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

I can see what you are talking about, but, in this case, I think SirCakez wanted to see our reactions, and our answers. I find it not scummy, maybe even townish. Also, you said that you were going to respond my post. Just a reminder, if you forgot.

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

I'm not the IC to answers your question, but I think it helps. Also, you should be posting some content. There is three pages of content that you just ignored.

Will write down my thoughts tonight.

VOTE: alban
I will be waiting.

[JaeReed]

I like lucca for town in #35.

Why? Even I, that wrote the post, can see a few logic errors on that post. Why the sudden townread with less than two pages of game? Also, in #40 you said that you agree with Jae that the meta contribute to the defense. That's something I was against on my post.

To clarify on this point I don't actually see how I was using meta to defend, so I find him agreeing to it slightly off. If anything I was using meta to say "this is probably why you should be scumreading me" which at the time I thought was separate, but upon further review I think we were basically looking at 2 sides to the same coin. I'll get to this further in an oncoming post.

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

Wanted to wait the JaeReed reaction to my post and my unvote. Will be touching that soon.

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

I can see what you are talking about, but, in this case, I think SirCakez wanted to see our reactions, and our answers. I find it not scummy, maybe even townish. Also, you said that you were going to respond my post. Just a reminder, if you forgot.

I said I'd make a decision, not necessarily that I'd say what that decision is. In any case your assumption that I wanted to respond was correct so it's not a huge deal. I was waiting for more reactions to what you had said before I did so. I suppose this is all we'll get so I'll get around to that response now.

As far as the SirCakez wanting your reactions and answers that may be so, but he could also get the same from me while he's at it. The only reason he wouldn't do so, imo, is if he feels he has a fairly solid read on me. I don't feel that should be the case this early in the game. Not unless, of course, he knew my alignment to start.

[JaeReed]

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

It can. I found RVS and people's reactions to them extremely telling in my last newbie after our first night flip when I went back and did a full re-read. There was a newbie scum that was trying way too hard to be joking and looked like he was forcing himself to post a lot. Add an out of place town read on him by the IC and we had a scum team pinned. Not that it was needed because the cop was on point with his investigations and mowed the team down (which I'll be honest was a little frustrating but it was a win so I can't complain too much).

[JaeReed]

JaeReed, on #37: Actually I self meta'd a point that was basically me asking "why didn't you scumread me for clearly knowing what I was doing?" Don't see what that had to do with me saying I'm town this game because of it. If anything it would point to being scum going for cheap newb credz. I didn't really count that as pressure, since the case was weird. I would have counted it as pressure for one of the two reasons I mentioned in the post you quoted.

Let's go over the basics again, right? In #24 it's the first mention of this. Xisi votes you because you were seeking approval with your vote, and he finds it questionable. I have no issue with you on this point, as I don't find this questionable like him. But then, on #26 you post this:

UNVOTE: singersinger
VOTE: JaeReed

The bolded below is approval-seeking, which I find questionable at any stage of the game, but particularly on page 1.

Yeah I love me some attention

Why is approval seeking in a newbie game an issue for you? Why did you find that more of an issue than the fact that I put him at L2, or that I played a game before where I participated in RVS and as such should know whether I'm doing it right or not?

The part that I don't like is the part where you say that you played other game, participated in other RVS, so the thing that Xisi found scummy (That you were seeking approval) is not actually scummy. You don't actually uses these words, but when you say "I played a game before where I participated in RVS and as such should know whether I'm doing it right or not?", you actually are saying that seeking approval is nonconsequential, and that, since you played before, asked it on other game that you were town, it makes no sense that you would do it again.

Correct, I believe seeking approval in a newbie in general to be nonconsequential.

However

, against me it's a valid point as I did participate in RVS in my previous game so I clearly knew what I was doing. I just felt he chose the wrong angle to approach it from, but on a reread I think we're just looking at two sides to the same coin. He finds approval seeking scummy, and I find

me

approval seeking scummy only because I knew what I was doing with this game's RVS, due to having participated in RVS before.

I'm beginning to understand where the confusion was coming from here, with your next point.

I provided the link to the game since I was asked, and pretty much explicitly said I'd be trying to play differently this game. How did I point to everybody? How did I say my play this game and last game would be similar? I didn't. I said I'd be trying to take on board criticism of my last game, though.

You didn't say your play was going to be similar and stuff, but you point to another game in that you asked a question that's not equal to the thing that happened on this game, but it's a similar question. A game in which you were Town. So, in my mind, maybe you were setting up something like: "Oh, he was town and asked a question about RVS, so he must be Town this game too"

I can see how, given what I said in the previous game, you could think I was linking to that because of the approval seeking there. This is a simple misunderstanding. I merely linked to show that I had partaken in RVS in that post, to prove I was not entirely unfamiliar with it (as I was back then). At that time it was a genuine concern as I felt I came in late for my first game. This time I was making a joke. I didn't make the connection between the two questions when I linked, if I'm being entirely honest.

Getting wall-ey again so I'll cut it short there. I find your logic here questionable, but I'm not sure if that's just me not following your line of thought fully. Will make a decision once I get a response.

I myself find my logic questionable, but since is so early on the game, and most of the posts are either talking about experience on the game, which is null, or a random vote, we don't have a lot of material to scumhunt. So, in that case, I was trying to see your reaction being pressured.

In that case, I actually liked your reaction. Even if the case that I made against you is not the strongest one, and was pretty easy to answer, I get your points and maybe what I think it was scummy wasn't actually scummy, I will unvote for now, because I think, so early in the game, that getting on a back-and-forth with you, it would prevent me seeing other options, maybe even making me tunnel. So,

UNVOTE: JaeReed

[/quote]

I feel you're probably town for the concern over tunneling, and questioning then following up on those questions, but I will need to reread to get a better grip on the game as a whole. In a bit, though, as I am going out.

[JaeReed]

Looking at this meta does contribute somewhat to your defense.

This bugs me a little, though because of lucca's genuine misunderstanding over why I linked that post I'm unsure whether it's the same deal here.

To clarify, I wanted to use the self-meta to prove why I felt you should have approached that scumread from a different angle with my post, not to say "I asked the same sort of approval seeking question here".

[JaeReed]

Hey I signed up for a game!

None of my usual RVS options are applicable, though.

vote: alban

Last to confirm or someone who has a wagon on them already.

Singer, you had another 24 hours to wait for someone to get a wagon before being in danger of a prod. Why didn't you if that's your usual RVS option? Was there a reason that you felt you had to make your post at that time?

I assume it wasn't an IC thing because you don't seem to be the type to do an IC spiel or you would have done so by now.

[Radja]

Day 1, VC 3

Xisiqomelir (2)

-

SirCakez, datanksta1213

alban (2)

-

singersigner, lucca261

JaeReed (1)

-

Xisiqomelir

datanksta1213 (1)

-

Robert E Me

SirCakez (1)

-

JaeReed

Not Voting (2)

-

alban, LaserVP

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is on May 18th at 08:00 AM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-05-18 08:00:00).

Mod Notes -
Singersigner is on V/LA until May 10th

[JaeReed]

Also i did like that you puts tank at L-2, but i like that less when you point to everybody, and then changes your vote.

Can you go further into detail on this? Specifically the line that I pointed to everybody?

[JaeReed]

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

Because if everyone is doing a random vote, everyone knows that they are doing it for no particular reason. We still really aren't out of the RVS (half us are in, half are out).

With that logic, anyone I try to vote wouldn't and shouldn't be affected. It's not like I outted a read yet. They would know it's a pressuring technique without any real substance and be able to react normally. As maf or town. It's not alignment telling.

Heck, I could be at L-1 right now and not care. I know I'm not getting hammered unless someone actually brings up any evidence.

Right now, the only thing we have is the debate on Jae's approval seeking for anyone (which by the way, think she reacted pretty good on. Didn't really find it scummy to begin with). We literally have a person who took 2 days to get here just to basically say he wasn't dead. We have another 2 who voted on the first day and haven't shown up since. With little to go on, a vote here would be useless because anyone I vote will know it's not a real read.


To conclude- The RVS definition was a little bit off than I thought. You guys actually try to formulate reads off blind guesses instead of using them to be icebreakers.

We're well out of rvs I think.

Maybe how someone reacts to pressure on themselves might not be telling early game but I definitely believe how other's go about putting pressure on and reacting to others getting pressured can have alignment tells.

Why do you think I reacted good to the pressure? Do you think SirCakez 31 could be scum trying to subtly keep himself distant from a potential wagon on town? He questioned without providing any insight to his thoughts on the matter.

Some people can read RVS pretty reliably. Does the first post seem stiff and worried about appearances/feel forced, or does it seem generally open and uncaring about what others might say about it? That's a good place to start I think.

[Xisiqomelir]

Xisqo - do you think Jae's approval seeking could have come from town?

That is certainly possible. I don't feel he's getting near confscum yet.

All right sounded like you were over-sure of yourself

I'd need moderator-supplied information to be entirely confident of any read D1.

[JaeReed]

Alright so I think I'm confident at this point in time calling lucca my best town read. 54 in particular was very good.

Singer is vla so I'll hold off on her.

Alban hasn't weighed in yet so likewise.

Sir, you've asked questions but I don't feel like you even expected to get anything AI from what you asked. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Robert is a null town for now pending on whether he follows up on his questions in 49.

Tank what are your thoughts on the game so far? You've seem pretty content to not comment on anything that has happened game-wise and just appear to be trying to look like you're doing something.

Xisiq you said you'd be looking for the non production of pro-town content. I don't feel as though you have produced much in the way of that yourself. In fact, that very paragraph of that post felt like fluff to me. Saying my meta attributed to my defense was iffy as well. Did you end up reading that whole game, or did you just check what I linked?

Laser you came across as a little defensive and abrasive when responding to singer asking about why you participated in RVS and that's why I asked what you made of that. You seemed to be able to figure out calmly why she asked that, which makes your response to her kind of weird in my opinion.

[Xisiqomelir]

RVS discussion:

Spoiler:

RVS is, in general, superior to RQS, which usually does not yield worthwhile information in the early game. See Voyager Mafia as a direct example of the contrasting utility of the two styles.

I'll elaborate here - I think RVS is useful for starting the game, but I feel like it's risky because people forget things or don't check what they're doing. I haven't done RQS yet but I really feel like that would be worthless.

I guess I'd rather an RVS without the actual votes being placed. Maybe like FoS or something instead. Though that may not work because there's no real pressure or risk of lynches for no reason making people nervous. I don't really have a solution, I guess, I just wanted to express the dislike in case someone else had anything better to use in later games.

To conclude- The RVS definition was a little bit off than I thought. You guys actually try to formulate reads off blind guesses instead of using them to be icebreakers.

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

Town almost always lynches D1 on this site (I'm aware other sites have a different metagame). A lynch requires a wagon, and in a void of information RVS is the best way people have found to create one.

As mentioned before, the alternatives don't function particularly well.

[Xisiqomelir]

I like lucca for town in #35.

Why? Even I, that wrote the post, can see a few logic errors on that post. Why the sudden townread with less than two pages of game? Also, in #40 you said that you agree with Jae that the meta contribute to the defense. That's something I was against on my post.

The bolded below probes motivations. It is a deeper level of analysis, rather than simply examining behaviours and I consider it pro-town content:

So, you have just one game finished, right. And then, on the smallest amount of pressure, you talk about your self-meta. Self-meta of only one game. Self-meta that no asked for. Self-meta of a game that you were town.

That concerns me.

It seems to me that you provided that self-meta to be able to say: "In my last game, i was town and did this. This game i did this too, so i must be town." This is strange.

Also i did like that you puts tank at L-2, but i like that less when you point to everybody, and then changes your vote.

VOTE: JaeReed

[Xisiqomelir]

Looking at this meta does contribute somewhat to your defense.

This bugs me a little, though because of lucca's genuine misunderstanding over why I linked that post I'm unsure whether it's the same deal here.

To clarify, I wanted to use the self-meta to prove why I felt you should have approached that scumread from a different angle with my post, not to say "I asked the same sort of approval seeking question here".

Yes, I'm actually in disagreement about the towniness of the specific quote provided:

VOTE: Nacho

Are we still in RVS? I hope so. I'm Australian so will have time differences to most of you, at a guess.

I would have found this null at best.

It was the rest of your ISO from 1698 I found more interesting confirming general newness to the site.

In any case, as I've said before, it's not compelling enough for me to move my vote at the moment.

[JaeReed]

Yes, I'm actually in disagreement about the towniness of the specific quote provided:

VOTE: Nacho

Are we still in RVS? I hope so. I'm Australian so will have time differences to most of you, at a guess.

I would have found this null at best.

That's because it was. I never claimed that to be a townie post.

It was the rest of your ISO from 1698 I found more interesting confirming general newness to the site.

To clarify, did you only read my iso or did you also check other aspects of that game?

[alban]

Data:

Seems uninvolved. Only 4 posts till now (still more than me!). Gels with his newbie status. Probably still trying to figure out what the fuck is going on here.
Read: null. Slightly town. Three players (Robert 7, Jae 16, Lucca 12) voted for him (Jae 30 and Lucca 35 since unvoted).

Jae:

Very enthusiastic. Maybe too much so. 1/3rd out of the total posts by him. Comments on each and everything. Too analytical? Don't like that. Can read more than necessary into things. Since posts such long and so many posts, can't bring myself to read it. Also, too much flip-flop of votes. Votes Cakez. Then votes Data. Current vote on Cakez. All this within first three pages. Likes attention and being given too. Is that a clever mafia strategy or attention-seeker citizen? Dunno yet.
Read: Null to slightly scummy.

Laser:

6 posts only. Fairly new player. In half of the posts, talking about a past game. Explaining too much? Seems unnecessary, especially when talking about past games. Not inclined to form quick opinions. Is that a town thing? Or doesn't want to be hold answerable as a mafia? Dunno.
Read: Null.

Lucca:

Few posts. Experience wise, seems like a medium level player. Has voted three people in three pages (Data, Jae, Me). A medium-level player doing that as a scum is less likely. Rational and explanatory posts.
Read: Null to town.

Robert:

Nothing to go by. Short and small number of posts. Seems like posting to dodge the prods. Player of his experience expected to have a good contribution. Nothing so far. Not very engaging and no one seems to engage with him. Is that low profile indication of scum?
Read: Slightly Scummy.

Singer:

Not contributing at all to the level of an IC. Seems busy since V/LA.
Read: Null. Suspicious.

Cakez:

Few posts, but I liked his approach in 47. Also, questioning others on pertinent points. Taking opinion of other SE, Xi 31. That's good.
Read: Town.

Xi

: Everything about him reads as town, but something doesn't seem correct. Everything's too perfect. Presence quite abundant (2nd most number of posts), quite uniform (throughout the three pages), patient, explanatory posts, etc. An SE is supposed to do that, but there's something deliberate about this. Dunno
Read: Null, suspicious.

36 possible partnerships.

Hell of a high number to exclude pairs one by one. But fun to do that, especially to come back and read it once the game is over, if my reads were correct. So here goes,

Partnerships less/not probable:

1. Data-Xi:

Data voted for Xi 23. Since he is new, he is less likely to be drastic and vote his partner.

2. Data-Cakez:

Both held vote for Xi at the same time. Data voted after Cakez. A newbie wont follow his scum partner like that on a vote.

3. Robert-Jae:

Had vote for Data at the same time. Will they do that as partners? I don't think so. Further questioned Jae on some of his posts 49. Less likely.

4. Robert-Lucca:

Had vote for Data at the same time. Will they do that as partners? I don't think so.

5. Jae-Lucca:

Had vote for Data at the same time. Will they do that as partners? I don't think so. Lucca clears Jae 38, even if momentarily. Less likely for a scum team to do.

6. Xi-Lucca:

Xi thinks Lucca is town 42. Lucca questions back this judgement 54. Distancing by Lucca? Less likely. SE player like Xi wouldn't openly associate with the partner.

7. Cakez-Xi:

Cakez doesn't anyway appear scummy, but his partnership with Xi seems impossible. He is openly asking for Xi's opinion on others.

Finally, I am not gonna look at the posts in this light again in this game. If I am correct, mafia will be alerted. If I am off, mafia will play me up. Either way, not much reliability in my reads that are read in this way.

But there will hopefully be other strategies.

[alban]

VOTE: Robert
Obvious choice since he appears slightly scummy (along with Jae).
This hopefully pushes him to write more.

[Robert E Me]

Still waiting for Xisiq to respond to my question. I still don't see how the meta contributes to the defence of Jae. Explain this please?

Ohai alban. Just commenting on some of what you posted:

Data:

Seems uninvolved. Only 4 posts till now (still more than me!). Gels with his newbie status. Probably still trying to figure out what the fuck is going on here.
Read: null. Slightly town. Three players (Robert 7, Jae 16, Lucca 12) voted for him (Jae 30 and Lucca 35 since unvoted).

Jae:

Very enthusiastic. Maybe too much so. 1/3rd out of the total posts by him. Comments on each and everything. Too analytical? Don't like that. Can read more than necessary into things. Since posts such long and so many posts, can't bring myself to read it. Also, too much flip-flop of votes. Votes Cakez. Then votes Data. Current vote on Cakez. All this within first three pages. Likes attention and being given too. Is that a clever mafia strategy or attention-seeker citizen? Dunno yet.
Read: Null to slightly scummy.

Cakez:

Few posts, but I liked his approach in 47. Also, questioning others on pertinent points. Taking opinion of other SE, Xi 31. That's good.
Read: Town.

Partnerships less/not probable:

2. Data-Cakez:

Both held vote for Xi at the same time. Data voted after Cakez. A newbie wont follow his scum partner like that on a vote.

7. Cakez-Xi:

Cakez doesn't anyway appear scummy, but his partnership with Xi seems impossible. He is openly asking for Xi's opinion on others.

You seem to let data off the hook pretty easily here. You just assume that he's really new even though he never talked about his experience level. Why not ask him?

Contrary to what you think, I don't find Jae that scummy. He's contributing a lot, so at least there's a lot to analyze, and he's asking questions of people trying to clarify and get reactions from people which is good. I think you should read their posts. :p

Why do you straight up read Cakez as Town? You have a weaker read on everybody else. I don't see that strong a reason to read Cakez as Town right now. Can you elaborate further?

I don't know if you can say that a newbie wouldn't follow his scum partner on a vote.

Again, using strong language with regards to Cakez: "his partnership with Xi seems impossible." I wouldn't say that just because he's openly asking for Xi's opinion on others that a partnership between them is impossible. In fact, I'd say it's null.

[SirCakez]

It's the internet, you can fake reactions.

We are playing mafia here, so obviously reactions can be faked. The point is to analyze these reactions and determine if they are fake or not. I think this should be pretty obvious.

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

I missed your unvote actually. I made that post from mobile so I scrolled past it accidentally probably.

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

They can, you just have to know what to analyze from them. For example, if you see someone who is unconfident follow someone's else's random vote quickly, then there's a decent chance they could be scum together, or scum looking to hitchhike off town.

Sir, you've asked questions but I don't feel like you even expected to get anything AI from what you asked. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Currently I have a very strong townread on you. Your level of engagement in the game feels natural and town, and I very rarely see new scum reach the level of content you have created.
I like the big reads wall and analysis Alban just created as well, it shows an eagerness to get into the game that looks like a town perspective.
I currently have two scumreads: tank and Laser. I dislike Laser's dismissal of the power votes hold to get reactions and create pressure, it feels like scum trying to avoid having to push someone. Tank has done very little to push conversation forward or to contribute any content to the table.

VOTE: LaserVP
I think this is a better vote then tank, as I want to see Tank produce some real content to judge him better.

[LaserVP]

Unfortunately, my own life will prevent me from being on this 24/7. I'm soooooo sorry I can't use my life for a forum game. I love my sarcasm. But yeah, I go on here once or twice a day. That's a reason the forum is so much different from the chat.

Anyways, I'm going to go through all of you guys, and what any problems you may have with me or others. This is not a read list, this is a summary of what you have done and a defense and offense on my part

alban

Congratulations, you managed to show up. It took three days to contribute something, and oh boy, you gave a read list. You have the least contributions by far, and I have a question. It seems that you use status as a way to find reads, and I'm just wondering that is it true.

Do you judge how people are town based on their presumed skill level?

. You did give other pointers as well for other people. It's hard to ask you questions because your contribution is shit, but you seem to know what you are doing. Sorta like me. But I have to point out that I don't contribute much because I really can't. I also talked about past games because there was this called.....a question. I had an....answer.

Lucca

First of all, it's kinda ironic how SirCakez specifically stated me and you as two people not voting. Yet, you voting 3 people already. You and Jae seem to have a thing going on that can't make me see you as both scum. However, while being townread by anyone who has outted a read in your direction, I can't say that. Not yet. I have a question though

Do you scumread Jae or not?

. I have to ask, your fourth post is basically a Jae bashing, but then you unvote and say the reaction was good. You also mentioned in your most recent post that you still wanted to find reactions.

Jae

I can't start a section on the most talkative person in the chat without mentioning the most heated debacle. This would be the supposed approval seeking after your vote on data. I think I know why you did it. If you give me the exact explanation of why you did it (and it matches my previous thoughts), that's an insta tr. I'm not going to tell you what I think about it. Just in case I'm wrong, you can't use it against me.

Why did you write "Am I doing this right" on Post 16?

. Another thing I have to mention is that I find that you actually want to know the experience people have with this sort of game. This isn't exactly alignment telling as of now, but it might be later today or down the road in lylo or some shit. Basically, I can just go back to my own posts instead of looking meticulously at a thousand of them. I can't get over your reason for voting SirCakez though. Your reason was because he forgot about you, unless I'm reading that horribly wrong. This isn't a random vote because you clearly stated we are out of RVS. Personally, I still thought we were. But the reason was shit. Question 2:

Besides apparently forgetting about you, what incentive did you have to vote SirCakez...if any?

. Also, yes. I do come out as defensive and abrasive. Last game didn't work out the way I played, so I tried to play differently. Apparently people complain about that too. So I'm going to try a mix of both. I do like the idea of being townread, but not enough to die. I like playing the game. So, I like to be null read. I don't like getting lynched either. The more you guys know.

Data

One simple question.

Do you have any idea what game we are playing?

I seriously have no clue if you know this information

Xis

First thing I will say is that you had the most extreme reaction to the Jae approval seeking thing. I think you were baited. That in itself is not scummy. What I don't get is how you tr lucca. Your not necessarily the only one to have done this, but you gave no reason except "read the post".

What specific reason did you find lucca towny?

. You seemed to defend the concept of the RVS. Like I said, you formulate reads off blind guesses. My biggest problem is that I don't. Alban summed it up pretty good. Your words alone are towny than anyone else here. The context of them is where I have problems.

Cake

And here we have the one guy with enough balls to vote me. I perfectly understand why. Like I said before, I purposefully tried to be null read so as to not get lynched, but not die in the night. Like Xis, you agree with the RVS. I'm not going to repeat what I think. You all obviously know that. Cake, you and I have actually had pretty much the same exact day. All we talked about was the concept of RVS, with the two of us on different sides of the chart. That brings me to this conclusion

Is my opinion on RVS factor into your vote on me?

. You do claim that I'm trying to prevent pushing on someone. That's fair, cuz I really haven't tried. I still considered the time around my last post to be RVS period. I believe we are out of said period now. Other than the stark difference, up until this point our days were basically the same. Your most recent post still does this. Besides the part where you answered my part about faking reactions (which your answer is weird, you pretend that I don't know anything about mafia and how wifom works, yet somewhat agree and disagree at the same time). I already talked about how I know how to scumread. Yet I still get the title as noob.

Robert

If I had to give a definite town read on someone right now, It would probably be you. I like your Post 15 because it was the first signs of scum hunting from....well anyone. Taking initiative is something I found town more likely to do than scum because mafia is afraid of being suspicious of the intents of others. I like your respond to alban's post as well. You are actually scum hunting instead of pointing fingers at people in hopes they crumble like a dry cookie. I really have nothing to ask here

singer

Useless IC. It's pretty hard to read nothing. Even if I did ask her a question, who knows when she would be able to answer it.

And to end this laundry list posting (which I'll probably do one more time before the day ends). Robert is town, Jae is town depending on what she answers to my question (which I know can be faked, but I'm only giving her the tr for now if she says what I think), data is a wild card, alban is null, sir is null, singer doesn't exist, Lucca and xis are my scum reads.

VOTE: Lucca

[JaeReed]

Jae:

Very enthusiastic. Maybe too much so. 1/3rd out of the total posts by him. Comments on each and everything. Too analytical? Don't like that. Can read more than necessary into things. Since posts such long and so many posts, can't bring myself to read it. Also, too much flip-flop of votes. Votes Cakez. Then votes Data. Current vote on Cakez. All this within first three pages. Likes attention and being given too. Is that a clever mafia strategy or attention-seeker citizen? Dunno yet.
Read: Null to slightly scummy.

Partnerships less/not probable:

2. Data-Cakez:

Both held vote for Xi at the same time. Data voted after Cakez. A newbie wont follow his scum partner like that on a vote.

There was a lot of wall and spam posts in your first game, Hungarian Notak II. You never complained about it there. I feel like you could be brushing it off so that you don't have to read posts. Feels less likely that kind of thing would come from town given as scum you wouldn't

need

to read posts, knowing already who is what alignment. I would have bought you saying that you're busy and don't have time but you didn't say that.

To clarify, I like positive attention. What I've been getting hasn't entirely been so.

As for the Data-Cakez possible pairing reasoning. This happened in my last game. Nacho!scum voted Willow in 196 and then Kage!scum voted Willow in 208 (his next post). I believe it's more likely for newbie scum to follow their scum partner (maybe not so now that I've said this) as they don't know how to look town and appear to be scumhunting. Irrelevant for RVS, though, I think.

I feel like a lot of what you pulled up was null. It's odd that you said you wouldn't be looking at things in this light again, because this is how you play the game from my understanding. You seem to search for possible pairings and rule them out.. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant with your last paragraph.