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Post #10 (isolation #3) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:40 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 9, TheLhix wrote:Yes. I suppose I am used to something more conservative and less random or "silly". All in goodness I suppose. Though, I am a sucker for analysis. How are you doing today/night?
Doing fine. It's afternoon here at the moment.
Which brings up another point, for everyone's attention.
(Obviously) I live in an Australian timezone and will frequently be asleep when American and European players are around. This is more of an issue in a blitz than in a usual game, so keep it in mind if you wish to talk with me. I recommend http://xkcd.com/1335/ for keeping track.
A bit quick don't you think? Passiveness is a sign of observance and casual or cautious play, while it could lead to suspicion it can manage to keep one relatively safe at certain times, acting too quickly might draw attention. I question how or if this is/isnt concerning. Of course, it could all be for shits and giggles.
Kakashi not so sharp at Mafia is he. VOTE: TheLhix
I presume this means you think there is a scum player's motivation behind this post.
is tilting me so hard (not the reason why I'm pissed).
...
Where on earth did this come from?
And soren said I was fucking around. What a goddamn joke. Soren must have read through the game it isn't that long. My town motivation behind posts directed at I forgot his name the person I shamelessly switched to should come across clear as a bell. I have been nothing but open about your criticism of my play. It might have been bad play but I stand by it. It is one of the reasons we're out of rvs. I look bad? soren stop fucking around and get better reads. I'm town as fuck.
I don't like that this comes in the third post Yakko's made since Soren's last post.
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
This doesn't come off as a joke first off.
Second it really reads awkward as far as comment go.
Where did itlepip say this was a joke? The only reference I can find from itlepip to a joke is:
In post 69, itlepip wrote:
...
i was still in RVS, that was just a comment supposed to be taken lightly. It wasn't meant to be personnel.
Also how would I be able this early in the game to give an explanation of your sheeping, most likely it was just a joking RVS sheep, but if my vote was serious than an RVS vote is bad. You could be scum trying a sheeping strategy early but there isn't much evidence for that. There also could be some scum thing I did early that you guys are reacting to, but I have absolutely no idea what it is.
which I believe was suggesting Yakko's vote was a joke.
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Post #121 (isolation #9) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:50 pm
Postby Aquanim »
EBWOP: To clarify, so far as I can tell #57 was a reference to this:
In post 54, TheLhix wrote:
...
But, did I not give a logical explanation for it? As well, I was also told that plays such as this "sillyness" were common on this site. Essentially leading one to believe they are being uptight. So couldnt you say I am just adjusting to the room?
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Post #124 (isolation #10) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:01 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 122, hi im Yakko wrote:
What didn't you like about it? And my 3 posts that you say indicate my mood leading up to post above. The only thing I am sorry about is potentially derailing the thread. I still stand by everything in post 112.
To me you are making it sound like soren said X then I said w x y and suddenly said z. Reality begs to differ. Which makes me think you're full shit for not voting me.
A few factors made me wonder whether that anger was genuine. Mostly those points - the insult directed at TheLhix seemed way out of proportion and it's not like Soren just said something to you that moment which caused you to flip out.
If I knew you were posing I'd vote you. Since I didn't know either way I gave you a poke. It suffices to say that I'm still not really interested in voting you.
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Post #126 (isolation #11) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:09 pm
Postby Aquanim »
The above about itlepip aside, I'm seeing much more throwing suspicion than looking for information in his posts so far (see #57 and #69 in particular).
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
This doesn't come off as a joke first off.
Second it really reads awkward as far as comment go.
Are you saying that once someone makes a post that isn't a joke they are banned from RVS and can no longer make joke posts?
Also since when is being awkward scummy?
reads as pretty defensive and concerned for somebody who keeps saying they are not worried by a 2-vote wagon.
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Post #143 (isolation #12) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:49 pm
Postby Aquanim »
I think the point here is that there is a difference between a "subjective" read and a "gut" read. At least, in the common usage of those two concepts.
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Post #172 (isolation #20) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:21 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 168, Titus wrote:
...
you resemble the last mini normal.
Is this referring to NY 190? (Technically a large, but not a big one.) Without really good cause I don't want to read ~130 pages of game to get context for pignash replacing in on page ~120, and I have some reservations about the meta value of such a late replace in any event.
Can you explain the similarity between his play there and here?
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Post #180 (isolation #23) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:43 am
Postby Aquanim »
In post 179, LoHa wrote:I've read the thread and can't recall a single alignment indicative argument, so we're still in-between RVS and what comes next.
What are the things you find unconvincing about the arguments I've made so far? For reference:
Spoiler:
In post 126, Aquanim wrote:The above about itlepip aside, I'm seeing much more throwing suspicion than looking for information in his posts so far (see #57 and #69 in particular).
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
This doesn't come off as a joke first off.
Second it really reads awkward as far as comment go.
Are you saying that once someone makes a post that isn't a joke they are banned from RVS and can no longer make joke posts?
Also since when is being awkward scummy?
reads as pretty defensive and concerned for somebody who keeps saying they are not worried by a 2-vote wagon.
: Can I interest you in a vote for Nosferatu based on the points in #178?
Possibly. I have to go for a few hours, so I don't want to make a play like that then be gone. I see the point as for the same reason I originally was wary of Soren, but it would seem it might be a bit heavier this time. I will think over it and come back later. Seem fair?
I probably won't be here when you get back, but sure. Do get around to it though, the day's ticking.
In post 180, Aquanim wrote:What are the things you find unconvincing about the arguments I've made so far?
Defensiveness despite claiming to be chill is null because self-preservation is null. Is there another basis for your conclusion?
There was the observation that he seems more interested in saying things are scummy than trying to generate more information (the latter being the most important thing for a townie in the early stages of the game IMO).
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Post #200 (isolation #29) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:41 am
Postby Aquanim »
In post 194, hi im Yakko wrote:
...
@aqua why are you town reading lhix after he said he has no interest in moving the game forward? i.e. Self proclaimed wanting to be null.
I don't have much of a townread on Lhix at all. What I do have is an assessment that the metgame Lhix learned to play in is very different to ours.
If I were to make a case on him this game I'd prefer it to be on the basis of whatever content he posts and his interactions with other slots, rather than his style. I agree his style isn't working out very usefully for town in the context of this site.
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Post #202 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:45 am
Postby Aquanim »
In post 197, Nosferatu wrote:I don't find what I did to be abuse looking at it. He repeatedly ignored what I was saying and dodged a very simple question multiple times. That doesn't make it not abuse, but he very simply didn't read. Even in his self-vote (which I am still musing over) he didn't read, he just quit.
...
In my book this is abuse, and in particular HIGHLY unlikely to provoke a courteous or useful response from anyone you say it to:
In post 148, Nosferatu wrote:...
my god you savage, can you comprehend human language?
...
---//---
He self-voted and I had no idea what the fuck that meant. If he had continued with the same behaviour I would have voted him, but he just up and quit. Trying to think about the town motivation behind self-voting, have to make sure he's not VI obviously, but I really can't think of anything. It just perturbs me and I don't feel comfortable voting him with that over me.
Why didn't you vote before he self-voted? In particular at #141. "I wanted him to admit he was lying to me" seems like an odd condition - what kind of scum admits they're lying to you?
He self-voted and I had no idea what the fuck that meant. If he had continued with the same behaviour I would have voted him, but he just up and quit. Trying to think about the town motivation behind self-voting, have to make sure he's not VI obviously, but I really can't think of anything. It just perturbs me and I don't feel comfortable voting him with that over me.
Why didn't you vote before he self-voted? In particular at #141. "I wanted him to admit he was lying to me" seems like an odd condition - what kind of scum admits they're lying to you?
uhh yeah, that's the thing, they don't. And whaddya know, pip didn't admit he lied. I N F E R.
...
I assume the inference I'm meant to draw from this is "itlepip did not admit he was lying to you, therefore he is scum".
Which brings me back to this point: if you had made that judgement at the time of that post,
In post 180, Aquanim wrote:What are the things you find unconvincing about the arguments I've made so far?
Defensiveness despite claiming to be chill is null because self-preservation is null. Is there another basis for your conclusion?
There was the observation that he seems more interested in saying things are scummy than trying to generate more information (the latter being the most important thing for a townie in the early stages of the game IMO).
What about Nosferatu?
Also, why are you voting Titus?
As opposed to Nosferatu she hasn't done anything. I can see Nosferatu's push as newbie town's attempts at getting out of RVS.
Is there a reason why, despite agreeing with you about the current state of the game, LoHa could not as a townie be scumreading you for (at that stage) having made a handful of short posts?
One might call it hypocrisy based on the shortness of LoHa's own ISO but considering how little LoHa had done to date I think there was nobody he could scumread where that would not be true.
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Post #270 (isolation #35) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:31 am
Postby Aquanim »
In post 265, Titus wrote:Aqua, Loha had fewer posts than me. He was lurking and prod dodging. He voted me after I suggested a counter to ipip. He provides no reason.
He was chainsawing to get ipip lynched. Pretty obvious to me. Ipip then voting Loha sealed that.
Ding, Nostaferu just coached Loha.
I'm aware he had fewer posts than you and was lurking and prod dodging. Just about any case on anyone he makes from that position is going to look hypocritical.
With all due respect, your counterwagon wasn't really very strong. (Counterwagons which are explicitly started for the purpose of being counterwagons do tend not to be.)
Unless you're saing LoHa is scum with Pignash (and I really don't like association cases on day 1) I don't think I really see the motive for a chainsaw.
The no reason with that vote does not impress me one bit, I agree with you that far.
The argument you're making in the second line is that Ipip voting Loha means that they're not scum together, right?
Wasnt my last comment approval over Far's Pip vote?
...Oh right, I read "With Respect To" as a typo'd "with" given the word before being mangled a bit, so I thought you were agreeing WITH pip, not ABOUT the case on him.
I mean the things I didn't like about Nosferatu's interaction with itlepip have been partly explained.
I don't townread Nos but I consider the explanation good enough that there are definitely better things to lynch today.
which 3 people would you feel better lynching today?
Didn't have a particular three in mind... but I'd lynch itlepip, feel a bit bad about lynching Titus day 1 on the principle of not lynching experienced players day 1 but maybe do it anyway, and maybe lurker-lynch Kop and pignash.
Would titus scum create a counter wagon on a potentially easy lynch? Does this suggest pip+titus?
If pip isn't scum, it makes more sense from scum-Titus if there are already other scum on the pip wagon, and Titus was looking for somewhere innocuous to park her vote. As counterwagons go it was a bit half-assed.
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Post #290 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:45 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 289, hi im Yakko wrote:
...
Eh that sounds well reasoned bullshit. I mean I get what you're saying but why would scum titus bring attention to themselves creating a half assed counter wagon? Nah nah I'm thinking titus is town.
If itlepip is scum, or if itlepip is town but there were scum on his wagon already, what would you expect a scum-Titus to do in that situation?
Bear in mind that (IIRC) there were no other wagons of any description active at the time.
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Post #309 (isolation #46) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:22 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 308, Titus wrote:
...
I don't work like that. People start as town. Scummy actions (which ipip has none) do that.
Farside backing off Laho pings like a motherfucker, doubly so because she's voting the counter.
I found these posts by itlepip reflective of scum motivaion because they're pointing suspicion at other players but not really pressuring for more information in any way:
Spoiler:
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
You have 2 with yakko sheeping you...
Was that vote in or out of RVS, cause I have no idea.
You sound disgusted? Maybe I'm reading that wrong. Any particular reason you pointed it out but made zero attempts to figure out why I was sheeping? I like my vote more now.
i was still in RVS, that was just a comment supposed to be taken lightly. It wasn't meant to be personnel.
Also how would I be able this early in the game to give an explanation of your sheeping, most likely it was just a joking RVS sheep, but if my vote was serious than an RVS vote is bad. You could be scum trying a sheeping strategy early but there isn't much evidence for that. There also could be some scum thing I did early that you guys are reacting to, but I have absolutely no idea what it is.
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Post #318 (isolation #48) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:33 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 316, itlepip wrote:
...
Not being worried about a 2-vote wagon doesn't mean you don't clarify reads on that wagon. Also the only difference is the titus read, and I meant that as the general consensus of the generally non-sus players, which would include yakko.
You're replying to it now, but why didn't you reply to it at the time?
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Post #323 (isolation #49) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:38 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 317, TheLhix wrote:
...
Truth be told. When you asked me to sheep you against nos,
I would have preferred an opinion to a sheep.
and then the Yokka-Aqua scenario played out where he instantly countered didn't sit right with me. I figured it was trying to bait my own votes out according to your wish regardless,
>>> and the way Yokka and you keep going round and round after each pressuring encounter you pull seems very systematic. <<<
Yes, it does, doesn't it?
I am curious to know why it keeps happening myself.
In post 321, TheLhix wrote:Just felt like I needed to tell you ^-^ to avoid suspicion
Well, if you're voting me and you think I'm scum, you should be trying to convince other people to vote me with you. If you're not that confident that I'm scum, you should be trying to find out more or not be voting in the first place. Which is it?
In post 316, itlepip wrote:
...
Not being worried about a 2-vote wagon doesn't mean you don't clarify reads on that wagon. Also the only difference is the titus read, and I meant that as the general consensus of the generally non-sus players, which would include yakko.
You're replying to it now, but why didn't you reply to it at the time?
At first my vote was in fact a impulse, I felt something was wrong with what had occurred earlier but wanted to bide my time to formulate a logical response until I gathered my emotion response together.
In post 308, Titus wrote:
...
I don't work like that. People start as town. Scummy actions (which ipip has none) do that.
Farside backing off Laho pings like a motherfucker, doubly so because she's voting the counter.
I found these posts by itlepip reflective of scum motivaion because they're pointing suspicion at other players but not really pressuring for more information in any way:
Spoiler:
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
You have 2 with yakko sheeping you...
Was that vote in or out of RVS, cause I have no idea.
You sound disgusted? Maybe I'm reading that wrong. Any particular reason you pointed it out but made zero attempts to figure out why I was sheeping? I like my vote more now.
i was still in RVS, that was just a comment supposed to be taken lightly. It wasn't meant to be personnel.
Also how would I be able this early in the game to give an explanation of your sheeping, most likely it was just a joking RVS sheep, but if my vote was serious than an RVS vote is bad. You could be scum trying a sheeping strategy early but there isn't much evidence for that. There also could be some scum thing I did early that you guys are reacting to, but I have absolutely no idea what it is.
Can you explain why you don't find that scummy?
Cuz it's not. You can observe a pattern without asking a question. That's what I do as town.
Questions can easily be used to shape a conversation.
Pattern observation gets responses.
I don't think any of those posts were ever likely to result in interesting responses.
Yakko why are you joining the RVS bw instead of votive thelhix?
I just brought out the refreshments. Do you have a read as to why I am shady?
Going from serious to silly in 1.0 seconds.
Let's just say that your play reads fake.
You asked about the vote from the start and say there are other ways you play but all I see is silliness which doesn't really capture reads from anyone
But, did I not give a logical explanation for it? As well, I was also told that plays such as this "sillyness" were common on this site. Essentially leading one to believe they are being uptight. So couldnt you say I am just adjusting to the room?
In post 57, itlepip wrote:Saying that your play was what you thought was normal and therefore not suspicious I find very suspicious.
What kind of response or information do you think that itlepip was hoping to get from this post? itlepip did not pursue this point at all, either.
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Post #336 (isolation #53) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:01 pm
Postby Aquanim »
In post 335, itlepip wrote:Because making accusations about posts is how you get out of RVS. Obviously the game took a different turn and I never felt the need the readdress that awkward point.
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Post #342 (isolation #55) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:07 pm
Postby Aquanim »
Whether an unflipped associative read has, in a single game, turned out to be right is not relevant to whether they are a good idea in general.
I am NOT talking about that game here and now, besides to say that I do not intend to let this game become a similar shitshow. If you want to justify your play there do it postgame.
In post 338, Aquanim wrote:Do not turn this game into another Blitz 1, you two.
Listen this isn't the same at all.
Titus arguments are weak.
Look at her day 1 engagement vs this.
Asking questions there. Not asking them here.
Trying to figure motoves there.
Pushing weak reasoning here.
Not the same at all
If you want to make a meta argument I suppose I'm listening. It is true that Titus' engagement with Blitz 1 early in the game was greater IIRC. Not a scumclaim but it's a valid point.
What I am not interested in is either of you,
whether your assessment is correct or not
, justifying your play there or bitching about that town. This isn't the place for that, it's not relevant to this game, and all it will lead to is ill feeling we don't need.