Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Datisi]

hello can i be in the coalition please please please :3

HEAL: datisi

[Datisi]

HEAL: hero at heart
HEAL: merlyn
VOTE: theholdsteady

[Datisi]

it won't actually do anything until a coalition is locked in. you see i wanted to do this thing where i naked vote someone as a sign of being Sus of them because i didn't feel like actually typing out actual words. and you made me type out actual words. look what you've done

[Datisi]

doc, bella, datisi all ping town to me so far

Why datisi
I’m opposite of that

why tho

super heal: datisi

ok, not sure this is super clear, i meant i townread datisi

why tho

[Datisi]

after those two recent games i played with ari finished, every single post i read from her is *radio static sound* because i learned i do not know how to read her at all. can i still blame skitter for it? anyway

doc, bella, datisi all ping town to me so far

Why datisi
I’m opposite of that

i don't think scum mala ever does this unless to distance

can you talk more about this? i don't see how you're getting to that

[Datisi]

how is that different than asking "why does scum ever pretend to scumread anyone ever" because the answer to that is pretty obvious and i don't get why it wouldn't be applicable to mala?

pedit: okay that makes more sense

i still think the thought process is flawed but i like the thought process itself form you (i sweat and question my life choices as i type that out)

[Datisi]

like the last coalition game was a bit of time ago, it's a question whether she even remembers that. and if she did remember that she might be thinking "well i'm just gonna have the reads i would have as town and i think i'd be scumreading datisi as town". and if she's not thinking that then maybe she doesn't have anyone *better* to aim her early-game suspicion towards

like i don't think scum-mala would've been thinking about all of that before she wrote "idk datisi pings me"

[Datisi]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

[Datisi]

i guess it's not really "5 steps ahead" kinda thing but you know what i mean surely

[Datisi]

what do you mean?

i mean like, what you're saying about why scum-mala doesn't sus me on page 2 is all logically valid, but i don't think it's realistic to think she would've actually thought about all of that before making that post? especially as i don't think she's that kind of player

[Datisi]

i would say aristeia is pocketing datisi but the truth is, datisi is already pre-pocketed from before game started.

maybe >_>

do you think i'm wrong though?

[Datisi]

i thought your opening posts were kind of empty and your post explaining mech to bella felt like a scumpost in that scum like to post helpful answers for townies because its something they can do that's truthful and establish rapport. your focus on bella felt kinda pockety.

I don't really have a read on THS, he felt kind of bland in his opening but the thing that made me think you could be teamed with him was

if THS is scum, partner is probably ari or kitten.

which feels like you're kind of preflipping his as scum and lining up the next two lims afterwards

this is kinda funny because i thought THS is the one that's pocketing bella :<

[Datisi]

I don't think she would expect it to get her townread - it certainly didn't last time.
I don't think she would expect it to knock you out of the townreads - it didn't really work last time.

like you're saying she wouldn't think that far ahead and she'd just do it if she was mafia but like what would the point be?

i'm not saying she would, i'm saying i don't think there's a reason she wouldn't

like, scum has to suspect *someone*. like yeah sure last time she didn't get much from suspecting me as town, but if she's mafia here she has to actually have reads. maybe she thinks i'm somehow similar to last time and would struggle to explain a townread on me. maybe she thinks she'd scumread me if she were town and is just doing that. and that's what i mean by "not thinking 5 steps ahead", i don't think she'd be thinking about how viable it is to get specifically me booted out of the coalition or whatever, i think it's more realistic if she's scum that she saw something that's an easy early reads fake and decided to go for it

also, if nobody latches on onto her suspicion on me, she can drop it. or she doesn't have to. if i'm in the coalition and it ends up failing, she can keep pushing me. if someone latches onto it, she can keep pressuring me

it's so early. and that's what i meant, i don't think she entered the game like "okay i have thought through which early reads have the biggest odds of getting me townread, and who i can boot out of the coalition early"

and if she was thinking about getting townread early, i don't think "x pings me" was gonna get her townread anyway no matter who it was aimed at

this post is a mess because, again, what you are saying *is* logical but i don't think mala, or most players, work like that?

[Datisi]

depends. what's your read on her rn?

weak townread because i still feel the amount of thoughts in reads + the energy is like, closer to her towngame than her scumgame

but you will notice she's not in my coalition right now, so. yeah

idk if pocketing is the word i'd choose, but i definitely felt his townread of bella felt very fake and unnatural, so yeah that's part of my SR on him (also the way he explained why he is including himself in his coalition felt scummy as well)

pocketing wasn't my first thought either, but the read definitely seemed like it was made to make bella like him so i figured "pocketing" is close enough.

but yeah uh 20 is like, giving townie points on something that kind of feels townie, sorta maybe, but if you think about it it's actually nai (scum wouldn't want to hammer someone into a coalition that early either, especially if the person in question is town). kinda feels like that superbowl read i

stole from ausuka

had in friends and enemies i guess

[Datisi]

cool lol

i might as well:

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Bella, Merlyn

Drew do you want in?

How opportunistic can you be. you basically agree with my two (three? I'm not sure if you're saying you townread Drew here) townreads here while ALSO putting yourself in the coalition, while at the same time saying "idk, THS seems like scum for the bella read and putting himself in the coalition". you're just parroting the wrong read already espoused by datisi hoping no one will notice.

VOTE: Hero at Heart

oh this is a very bad post

THS is accusing hero of being scum for scumreading him while having the "same" views as him, but completely ignoring the fact on how those views came to be, when something like that is very relevant, is uh, a choice

THS, are you an alt? do you have mafia experience elsewhere?

[Datisi]

ngl i think hero might be like, my strongest townread currently

my only ??? about their slot was them saying they townread me on meta when i had made ~2 nonsense posts, but like uhh i don't like pressing on that if that reveals alt-related info

and the rest of their posting is :goodposting: so here we are

HEAL: bella i guess?

[Datisi]

THS is accusing hero of being scum for scumreading him while having the "same" views as him, but completely ignoring the fact on how those views came to be, when something like that is very relevant, is uh, a choice

what facts were i ignoring? he deliberately decided not to explain how his views came to be until we pressed him to explain more.

idk if pocketing is the word i'd choose, but i definitely felt his townread of bella felt very fake and unnatural, so yeah that's part of my SR on him (also the way he explained why he is including himself in his coalition felt scummy as well)

i mean, he said right here that the townread felt unnatural, and that your explanation for *why* you're putting yourself into the coalition is scummy. sure he didn't elaborate on it immediately, but reducing this to "THS seems like scum for the bella read and putting himself in the coalition" (implying he's scumreading you for those views, not the way they came to be) is disingenuous

like if you wanted to see if there was actually some sorta hypocrisy in his views here, you can ask him to elaborate on why he holds those. but just ignoring the potential reasons and saying he's calling you scum "for having those views" is bad

[Datisi]

Idk why, but this game datisi pinged me right away and not in a good way

do you have any thoughts on me that aren't related to my opening post

[Datisi]

HURT: merlyn
HEAL: implo

i saw that i have 1 notification from mala and i thought it was going to be her responding to the 1 question i asked her, but no it wasn't. yes i'm complaining for the sake of it.

anyway uhh. merlyn i'm starting to like less after someone pointed out that she hasn't really had that many reads (oh it was implo pog) and after reading that i can easily see her slot playing in a sort of quiet townie don't rock the boat scum play. implo feels townie. i liked the drew read and the merlyn read was a good catch. also i do have Thoughts on the drew/implo thing but considering the post right above me, i comment later

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

also uh i will be pretty busy and confined to phoneposting for most of the day. this will likely not impact much but on the off chance it does i'm putting it out there. ok cool.

[Datisi]

zzz hello i got lazy i read up now

I don't feel all that great about Dats tbh

is there any reason for this besides that one post you called tmi?

[Datisi]

I'm going to get really nitpicky on this idea that it's scummy that I hadn't given any reads. I posted as soon as I saw the game was open. When you posted 156, I had been playing in the game for 29 hours. I also slept and went to work twice in those 29 hours. So, was it really dubious that I hadn't formed or posted any reads yet? Am I really the first player you've met who decided to take more than 29 hours to figure out what they think? Or am I right to think it's odd that it's even being remarked upon?

i don't really like this, it feels like an oversimplification. i don't want to speak for implo here and obv he can correct me if i'm wrong, but his 156 made me realise that merlyn's posts are mostly like, fluffposts. like, it's obvious she was reading the game because she was responding to things about the game, so she did put some thought into it, but there was no Actually Alignment Comments in those posts. and scum is more likely to go into that mode of responding to things and asking questions, but not actually solving, because you know they can't solve.

so it's like, it's not the issue that she didn't have reads, hell my reads are probably utter ass currently, but that she wasn't really working towards getting them?

[Datisi]

zzz hello i got lazy i read up now

I don't feel all that great about Dats tbh

is there any reason for this besides that one post you called tmi?

Well let's put it this way, I feel better about Hero, Merlyn, Imp, and Bella than I feel about you.

Felt better about Ari, but not so sure now. So I would prefer to be in the coalition over you.

that doesn't help me much but ok let's see

why is that one post from me tmi-ing mala and why do you think merlyn is town?

[Datisi]

y?

ah.

[Datisi]

well datisi doesn't townread mala so he doesn't want her in the coalition

i mean i was mostly asking to try to get a gauge on your reads and where your head is at, not to align our coalitions

i don't want mala in if i don't have any reason to townread her, which i currently don't

fwiw i'm pretty sure this sort of approach to coalition building isn't scummy for ari

[Datisi]

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Merlyn, Bella, Implosion

i don't think scum-ari would put an all-town coalition forward

positioning to push me and hero upon this coalition failure would surely be... a choice. maybe not that impossible to push me i guess but it's still p bizarre

[Datisi]

but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game

is there anything to this that's not the "looseness", because this doesn't really tell me anything

[Datisi]

so right now i'm kinda happy with a datisi/hero/merlyn/bella/implosion coalition.
is there anyone who actually SR's these people?

i read merlyn's iso and i did read your post and i still don't see why people townread her
but if she does get read slower than usual then i wouldn't mind waiting a lil bit for her (and some others as well) to post a bit more before making a call

[Datisi]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Actually maybe TMI isn't the correct thing, and I am forgetting the term when scum protects town like this.

But, there is such a confidence you show here that you know her scum game so well there is no possible way she can be scum. Even if you know someone's play fairly well, I don't buy that you could make this strong of a read early in a game, especially with a light poster like Mala, as town.

Basically like I said, this reads like you know she is town.

Pre Edit: You said to someone else that scumMala doesn't do this, sounds kinda like at least a little bit of a town read, if i am wrong and you are town as well.

*blinks*

my guy, you might wanna read that conversation again, i was arguing AGAINST ari's townread on mala

like ari made a point where she said that "mala as scum here would've done all this analysis before making this p2 post and would've concluded not to make it, therefore she's not scum here"

and i was saying "i don't think scum-mala would've done all that analysis before making that p2 post, therefore she can still be scum here"

[Datisi]

but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game

is there anything to this that's not the "looseness", because this doesn't really tell me anything

Well I explained that it is a big part of my town read on her, and I gave an example of what I meant. So I don't know what to tell you if it doesn't tell you anything.

the way you phrased 252 made it sound like there's another big reason besides looseness

do you have like, any of them meta links for how stiff she is as scum (personally her play here doesn't strike me as very loose)

[Datisi]

my head hurts

[Datisi]

i thought i knew who hero is and that impacted my read on him, but i just had that theory broken like three times, unless he's lying, which he probably is, and this is why i shouldn't play with alts

[Datisi]

okay i'm actually annoyed because there's nontrivial amount of my reads that depends on shit like "who did ari think hero is" and "how much experience does hero actually have with me" and "what is their mutual history" and

pedit: now i feel bad

can you tell me why ari's town for you now? i saw which post you townread her for but i don't really get it

[Datisi]

i think at this moment in time (like page 14) my ideal coalition would probably be dats/hero/implo/bella/ari but i am like. doubtful that's ever going to get voted in. and in the event it fails, it feels like it would be an utter shitshow.

[Datisi]

actually maybe drew instead of bella

[Datisi]

because i don't think scum!her would have the thought process of "did hero sr me because i was scum in that game? ugh i can't believe it". do u think she would?

i mean, as a preemptive shutting down of a read she thinks town-you has? potentially yeah

(as i type this i still have no clue what game y'all are referring to, please don't laugh at me if what i just said is actually really stupid or something)

[Datisi]

..............i am confirmed a fucking idiot

[Datisi]

that wasn't to you, that was to ari

[Datisi]

sorry again for repout. thanks for modding.

extremely well done, implo