Open 338 Jungle Republic StefanBversion - FIN

[TheOtherFiction]

Question for all; would you rather lynch a wolf or a mafia today?

You're begining to make me think your doing this on purpose as scum.

What exactly do you mean by this? What is he 'doing on purpose'?

VOTE: TheOtherFiction

Why did you take so long to confirm?

Anime Weekend Atlanta. So I had to wait till Monday.

Townread on Sir Bastion. Though I'm not sure what good the question can do. Presumably the game isn't over so all he'd be able to say is whether he was lynched or killed.

Thanks for the brownie points?

No I am just trying to get people talking so we could move out of RVS quicker. This is only my 4th game (and I've only finished one where I was nightkilled the first night after I hammered a townie ) and so far out of the other 3, the 2 that stayed in RVS for quite a while ended up with really weak leads & for the first 3-4 pages & tunnelled scumhunting for most of day 1 while the 1 where we chatted for a bit and asked each other random questions and talked opened up a lot more options and helped get the game moving (a bit too moving we ended day one on 44pages)

For you Cobblerfone, I guess I cant ask you about 1148 so hmm Where you lynched or nightkilled in your last game? Or did you survive?

[bold]Vote Sir Bastion[/bold] and

Suspicion on Cobbler

Possible that Bastion is either scum trying to hide the fact Cobbler called him "townie" so early OR Bastion could be trying to make a townie look suspicious by quoting without actually acting on him. Either way, Bastion looks a little scummy. Plus, a little reasoned vote starts discussion better than RVs.

@Sir Bastion: It is public knowledge that in the game you reference I was lynched not long after replacing in on page 80. Can't say any more than that due to the game currently being ongoing.

@cobblerfone: you've now sucked up to both kondi and Bastion. I'm happy with where my vote is. It is a serious vote. Please explain your town read on Bastion. What has he done that makes you think he's distinctly town?

Agreed.


Meta-questions could be a mistake of a townie or scummy, but his newness is worn down a good 4 months or whatever, so it doesn't really hold. Either way, we should investigate Cobbler, but as I pointed out, I don't want Bastion to get away entirely. He seems a bit protective of Bastion, but it could just be because its my first read of the first few post.

[TheOtherFiction]

Question for all; would you rather lynch a wolf or a mafia today?

I think I'd rather get rid of the werewolf nk first. I also think that it's more easy to catch mafia when there are a lot of them because they interact more.

Arbitrary RVS reads:
People I like: Rhinox and iamasuername.
People I dont like: Cobblerfone and theotherfaction

I don't like the weakness of the accusations on this post:

Possible

that Bastion is either scum trying to hide the fact Cobbler called him "townie" so early OR Bastion

could be

trying to make a townie look suspicious by quoting without actually acting on him. Either way,

Bastion looks a little scummy

. Plus,

a little reasoned vote

starts discussion better than RVs.

Meta-questions

could be

a mistake of a townie or scummy, but his newness is worn down a good 4 months or whatever, so it doesn't really hold. Either way, we should investigate Cobbler, but as I pointed out, I don't want Bastion to get away entirely. He

seems a bit protective of Bastion

, but

it could just be because its my first read of the first few post

.

Vote: TheOtherFiction.

whatever. I'm acknowledging this but since I voted someone on reasons I know are weak (which is your case?), I don't really have anything to say about your vote.

I would prefer lynching a wolf because one could still kill and it weakens the biggest threat to town.
/opinion

@cobbler: At the town. I don't really want to influence the seer onto anyone unless it's a significantly stronger read.
ALSO, please answer Rhinox's question.

@Bastion: You! but I did mentally place your join date as April instead of August (and even from that miscounted, hence the "4 months or WHATEVER" but yeah, you. I was supposing you might be breaking site rules just because of your newness to the game. (Which is like a meta defense of a real accusation, but I digress to avoid some sort of circular logic).

the "reasoned" is because I feel uncomfortable throwing in a RV when I could use something that's at least a little scummy to vote someone.

[TheOtherFiction]

Maybe cobbler, but you didn't really flesh that out much.

[TheOtherFiction]

@TheOtherFiction: Why would SirBastion try to hide the fact that another player called him town as scum? Are you implying that Cobbler and SirB may be scumbuddies?

Indeed, but it's just an early read. Since Cobbler and SirBastion are relatively new, I figured that Cobbler's early kinda "town read" to be suspicious. I shouldn't suppose that the "join date" necessarily indicates how long they've played or how strong they are in this game, but it was just a feeling with that.

It's not very strong, of course, but I think the pressure on cobbler is telling, however. I get what cobbler is saying, but it just seems like a bit of trying to save a mistake. It isn't something to lynch over yet. We have plenty of day left.


Meanwhile, Rhin is absolutely right about Yos2. I see no reason for a seasoned player to focus so much on theory and babysitting newer players when he could at least accompany his opinion on game theory with opinion on the actual game.

[TheOtherFiction]

Only Yos2 doesn't come back from the dead? Crypto, how serious are you on lynching Yos2? IE, should I expect super awesome in depth amazing scum details?

[TheOtherFiction]

Because it wasn't a case and just pointing out the number of ifs in an arbitrary vote?

[TheOtherFiction]

I didn't revote because no one warranted the vote. Even if it were on the person, it would not exactly be worth it. That being said, I must agree with Yos2 on one point, which makes post 85 by cobbler fairly suspicious because he is posting "only to avoid a prod" which is funny since he gave town points to SirBastion for trying to ENCOURAGE talking, etc.
This is ironic and fishy because he admits there is nothing done while barely progressing anything by asking a question about Yos2 (I don't like him, but more like neutral-1 (-5=confirmed scum) but I don't really think that his play is necessarily scummy given his recent attempts at both making the game go forward and trying to scum hunt.

[TheOtherFiction]

not much to say at the moment, curious about theotherfiction wagon but not enough to spot the hiding scum atm.

Until then hello Hiraki and funkybike1!!

Are you saying the vagon on me is unwarranted?

Yos2, I could argue that voting just to vote is pretty scummy as well.

Vote Yos2

I may think each are scummy, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote. The only one to be suspicious would be the person who hammers, sure, but that's just a silly to assume the hammerer is scum if they just bandwagon early all the time.

Not to mention the commentless votes on me recently.

[TheOtherFiction]

Yos2, I could argue that voting just to vote is pretty scummy as well.

Vote Yos2

I may think each are scummy, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote. The only one to be suspicious would be the person who hammers, sure, but that's just a silly to assume the hammerer is scum if they just bandwagon early all the time.

Not to mention the commentless votes on me recently.

Heh. Take a look at this post, everyone.

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't

actually

argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

Then he finally votes. But he doesn't vote for any of the people he's expressed suspicion on; instead, he votes for me. Why? He never really says. I can only assume that he doesn't like that I'm voting for him.

He then gives some vague excuses for not voting ("I think each are summy, but not enough to warrant a vote"; what? How is not voting better then voting for someone you think is scummy? The rest of that paragraph dosn't make a lot of sense either; how does him voting for someone he thinks is scummy make it EASIER for the scum to control the vote?)

He then complains about the people voting for him without reason, but instead of actually going after them, he votes for me, the guy who actually gave reasons for suspecting him.

I think we've got a scum here, folks.

In fact, I did argue that voting is scummy, and only say I could because it seems self evident that if we (you, whoever) take the approach that "all town will keep a vote at all times" scum are free to vote whoever they want without giving a reason and if questioned "I just wanted to keep my vote on someone because it's more town than not voting." It eliminates the effort a scum would have to make in coming up with a legitimate reason for their votes.

I am voting you because you are setting up an excuse for mafia by presenting an argument that gives scum an essential get out of jail free card.

I am not voting for certain people because I don't think they are scum, just scummy. As it is, the things that make them seem scummy could merely be an effect of their newness. I haven't done any meta research (and tend not to), but it could be they legitimately dunno how to approach a game like this, but then again, it could not be newness. I am making a note to watch their later actions, which are not admittedly significantly better. Pending on how arguments go, I am more likely to advocate a lynch of SirB or Cobbler than you, but at this moment (since a vote on someone is better than no one, right?), I am choosing to vote you.

Also, the mention of me saying "mafia" rather than scum is out of habit of playing without wolves and mafia. To me, they are traditionally the same entity, but yeah, I will work to keep that distinction in mind in future posts. I will comment on other stuff later. Out of time at the moment.

[TheOtherFiction]

Just read Crypto's votes in isolation (because the "eat a dick" comment hurt my feelings)
and Yos2, if you wanna criticize anyone for doing virtually nothing, take a look at that.

Unvote;Vote Crypto

Posts by Crypto are always serious? Elaborate on a post, vote, or both.

On Yos2: No, I don't. I just don't like your policy on whether people should vote or not. Not claiming yet

[TheOtherFiction]

Also note: Hiraki wanted to rush the lynch, said wishy-washy is a scum tale, and voting me. Also an amazing contributor to this thread.

[TheOtherFiction]

Funkybike1 is acting weird, and doesn't really seem to be scumhunting. If TOF gives me a reason to think she might be town, that's probably the next wagon I'm moving too.

That being said, this is an odd post:

For the first time ever, I think that Yos is actually making sense. Does that mean that he's town? No.

What did he say that didn't make sense? Why didn't you think it made sense? Is it because you know he's scum, and assume whatever he's saying doesn't make sense, because he's your scumbuddy or is it because you know he isn't your scumbuddy and you want to cast doubt on his logic?

So...you're accusing him of being my scumbuddy because he said I'm making sense? Also, you want to explain himself and why he said that, so you're...asking him if he's scum? Do you expect him to say yes?

Just read Crypto's votes in isolation (because the "eat a dick" comment hurt my feelings)
and Yos2, if you wanna criticize anyone for doing virtually nothing, take a look at that.

Crypto hasn't explained his votes, but from the timing of them you can get a pretty good idea of what he's trying to do, I think.

Probably be good if he explained his thoughts a little more, but I don't think he's especially scummy at the moment.

Bandwagoning? I don't really understand what he's doing, I asked earlier if there was an overarching scheme, he said yes, but the lack of any actual (apparent) thought bothers me.

Yos2, care to enlighten me? Or more usefully, maybe Crypto could give some light into his world for the rest of the town?

Cobbler, a scum can claim (say), someone is "making sense" just so they can agree with a bandwagon without being the origin of the reason for the vote and possibly link them to a townie.

Hypothetically, yos2 is town and cobbler is scum. Everyone lynches me (revealing town), and points out what Cobbler says. He get lynched, revealing scum. So, people might think that Yos2 is a scum buddy because of the interaction on day 1 leading to my lynch. Yos2 gets lynched and is either werewolf or townie. (I could not IMAGINE why werewolves, with a night kill/smaller group would think its a good idea to throw themselves out there, but even if things do not happen as outlined, mafia are more likely to buddy to make misslynches happen or even lynches of wolves to get rid of the competition.)

[TheOtherFiction]

So...you're accusing him of being my scumbuddy because he said I'm making sense? Also, you want to explain himself and why he said that, so you're...asking him if he's scum? Do you expect him to say yes?

I'm accusing him of being your scumbuddy because apparently he disagrees with what you've said earlier but that

now

all of a sudden you're making sense, without explanation. And I don't, it'd be delightful if he is and he did. Well, not for his team or the game really, but... oh you know what I mean.

If you actually wanted him to answer your question and explain why I'm making sense, then why didn't you ask him that in a less loaded way, so you might actually get a real answer from him?

Your whole "You think Yos is making sense? ARE YOU HIS SCUMBUDDY" was just so totally out of left field, it feels more like a fake suspicion on your part then anything else. I mean, I *was* making sense there. I usually do make sense; there's a whole meme about that.

And if you do think i wasn't making sense in that post, you haven't at all explained how or why you think that, which is really odd on your part. The post we're talking about was part of my attack against TOF. If I'm making a case against someone that's pushed them all the way to lynch -1, and you think part of that case isn't making sense, then why aren't you arguing against it? Not only that, you actually followed me onto the TOF bandwagon and have your vote there right now. Why would you do that if you thought I "wasn't making sense"?

I hate to say it, but Yos2 is 100% right, which makes me kinda suspect myself. O.o (jk) But this is a good post, so quoted for truth.

Yos2, care to enlighten me? Or more usefully, maybe Crypto could give some light into his world for the rest of the town?

I'm not really interested in putting words into Cryto's mouth here, or explaining his votes for him. He should do that himself.

That being said; the timing of his votes (what was going on when he voted for you, when he moved his vote to funkybike1, and then what was going on when he moved his vote back to you, ect) generally made to me sense in the context of the thread; someone did something that a reasonable person might think was scummy, and at that moment Crypto voted them.

Error on my part. Meant that separate sentence as a separate thought. So that I was less interested in asking you to enlighten me (thanks anyway?) and more interested in Crypto posting something my less abductive that mind can grasp.

Welcome back to real time, havingfitz.

[TheOtherFiction]

@Crypto: What?

[TheOtherFiction]

You mentioned me twice. You said that my first vote was incomprehensible but that my second vote "made more sense than the Y2 one." That implies that you had an inkling of the possible reasons I had for my second vote and that, by the same token, I had reasons in the first place.

You listed Cobblerfone and TheOtherFiction as top suspects. You never mentioned a scum read on me, or any read on me for that matter. Now you are acting as though you had.

Also, I have reasoning. I always have reasoning. I'm just not in the mood to dignify peons like you with knowledge of my it.

This makes me feel insulted and awed at the same time.

[TheOtherFiction]

TOF: why does crypt's post make you feel insulted?

I've asked his reasoning and in the above post he just said "to peons like you."

@cobbler, What? I thought yos2 would be likely to be a werewolf or townie because, as I said in my hypothetical, that mafia are more likely to do that than wolves cause of group size.

[TheOtherFiction]

@cobbler, What? I thought yos2 would be likely to be a werewolf or townie because, as I said in my hypothetical, that mafia are more likely to do that than wolves cause of group size.

I still don't get what you mean. And what alignment am I supposed to be?

Any anti town position, but more likely a mafia because wolves wouldn't be as prone to the plan as mafia due to number of there group. It was an explanation for some reason that isn't worth looking up. I was disproving someone's claim, but I don't remember what it is.

Scooby, I haven't claimed yet cause I have decided not to claim yet.

[TheOtherFiction]

I wouldn't mind putting anymore pressure on Cobbler. I haven't liked him (or you, to be fair, less so now) since the game started.)

[TheOtherFiction]

WHAT PART OF CLAIM DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH YOU

Um.... true. Yup, definitely true.

I wouldn't mind putting anymore pressure on Cobbler. I haven't liked him (or you, to be fair, less so now) since the game started.)

Do you need an invitation or something? Saying you would do something but doing nothing is not helping. Especially when there are players who are demanding action to be taken...

I have nothing more to say on cobbler than what has been said. I could move my vote, but I don't like taking someone's claim that it is "L-2" without a votecount or at least checking it. (And since it was late last night, sleep>mafia.)

TOF's move against Crypto is horrible

Maybe, but I don't like/understand Crypto's playstyle. I feel like it'd be an easy way to play as scum[/opinion].

[TheOtherFiction]

@cobbler, What? I thought yos2 would be likely to be a werewolf or townie because, as I said in my hypothetical, that mafia are more likely to do that than wolves cause of group size.

I still don't get what you mean. And what alignment am I supposed to be?

Any anti town position, but more likely a mafia because wolves wouldn't be as prone to the plan as mafia due to number of there group. It was an explanation for some reason that isn't worth looking up. I was disproving someone's claim, but I don't remember what it is.

Scooby, I haven't claimed yet cause I have decided not to claim yet.

Wait. Huh? But if I'm mafia and Yosarian's a wolf how could we plan this? They're not on the same team, they don't know each other. Townslip?

Vote: Yosarian2

His vote on TOF seems to be completely at odds with... pretty much every other post he's made. Not only has he shown no indication that he finds TOF scummy, besides the vote, he actually seems to be exclusively attacking other people on the same wagon that he is on. Cognitive dissonance all up the friggin' walls here.

I'm sorry, were you unaware that there were two scum teams?

No.

Why are you voting TOF?

@Cobblerphone: Why did you originally vote ToF? I don't think you've said yet why you did that.

The wolfslip and Yosarian's (who I think is mafia) case was convincing, except for that one bit that I pointed out earlier.

Also, while pressure and votes are seperate, I didn't want the idea of a wagon to fade away for those who were voting TOF and who've might've switched wagons.

What? No. Why are you voting Yos2 from this?

Falsevote Cobbler (not hammering)

Claim.

I don't think you could be town twisting around like this. You are misusing my example which was to disprove a claim.

@Sir: Well, yeah, true. But bed>mafia. And I just made a quick post fore bed. I disagree with your entailment argument since you exclude laziness. However, I am not distancing from Cobbler. I haven't liked him since the start and that hasn't changed, just gotten worse slowly.

Okay crypto.

Found out her might be hammered, but not changing the above portion of my post.

I thought I had made a post from my phone but apparently it did not go through. It was basically an FOS on Hiraki for whinging about Cobbler not claiming when a VT or seer claim, especially on D1, at best only helps scum.

Hopefully Cobbler is scum.

Primate...what do you not like about my post? That I find the top wagon getters suspicious...especially when you placed the person I'm voting at L-1? Seems a bit hypocritical. Also...I do not typically call people town (like I inferred towards Y2) and posted no such opinion towards Rhinox and scooby iirc.

Hikari wanted me to clam, not cobbler.

i'm pretty sure if Cobbler is aware he's been hammered by crypto then he is town. Unless he wants to send TOF up shitcreek without a paddle by his last post.

Whatever Cobbler flips, I don't think Cobbler and TOF are in the same scum group, in any case. The whole scum tell on Cobbler was that he seemed to want to help lynch TOF while not really seeming to have a reason to do so, and while his TOF vote really seemed to contradict all the reads he was telling us about.

QFT

[TheOtherFiction]

hypocopping?

[TheOtherFiction]

Rhinox, that does look like a scum slip.

Hi, Hiraki. I see your holding a ballet with my name checked.

[TheOtherFiction]

Hikari, are you going to weigh in on the funky bike wagon, or will you just tunnel vision me for the rest of the game/till I die?

[TheOtherFiction]

I don't think Funky is particularly scummy other than lurkerism, but in this game, that does look scummy. The Rhin thing seems moot, but don't the scum have as many people as us?

[TheOtherFiction]

are you confirming found scum then?

Hik believes I am scum, and he's expressed so twice before, at least once today.

[TheOtherFiction]

You have a point, and I can't think of anu situation in which a double hammer on him would be athreat. I mean, even if two scum immediatel hammered, that'd be equivalent to claiming team pair.

[TheOtherFiction]

Vote Rhinnox

[TheOtherFiction]

Unvote;Vote Scooby

I figured Rhinn might be scum (Still might) but the only people who reacted to my vote that I don't like is Scooby.


@Rhin: Trying something out. I don't think enough people are talking to allow for much conversation.

But I am not wholly sold on the idea of lurker scum. It could be I just think that some people are talking too much and some not enough or not at all, I really do not like the active luring Hiraki is doing because his posts are useless overall. Refusal to make a case, tunnel vision, etc. I just don't like him.

BTW, if Yos is scum, he's mafia.

[TheOtherFiction]

Cool.

Scooby is most definitely not scum

so there goes that vote being useful

I will have something up by tonight.

gracias rhinox

*Jabs with a stick*

[TheOtherFiction]

Either he is active town or trying to act as a leader because mafia are close to the largest faction. There is no reason for a wolf to act this way as a leader type role like Yos2 has been playing would all but definitely be investigated, wouldn't he? He seems like someone to suspect, so I am fairly certain that Yos2 is probably mafia if he is scum at all, but I am starting to think that he might be town from play. I dunno, that's just me.

Hiraki completely deserves this wagon, regardless of alignment. His play has been the definition of active lurker. Not apathetic cause he vehemently wants me dead, but definitely tunneling and adding little/no insight.

[TheOtherFiction]

@Hiraki: your entire argument is still pretty much based in that weak starting post. Also, I wasn't forced to claim and the wagon moved off of me without needing it. That should be some indication of how weak the case/wagon was.

Prod dodge!

Fitz has not done anything useful so far, so I might as well VOTE: havingfitz.

Let's see how it turns out.

I feel like this oddly derails the whole case sirb made, and now I just wanna lynch funky.

[TheOtherFiction]

So you'r saying we should lynch scooby?

[TheOtherFiction]

Then what was the point of Elmo's post? The inactivity is noted, but shouldn't we do something with it?

[TheOtherFiction]

I like the funkybike case because after iam's pretty amazing post, the response is the above.

[TheOtherFiction]

I feel that if seer doesn't claim, we might as well just quit.

[TheOtherFiction]

EBWOP: Why? well let's face it, we haven't gotten rid of one antifraction. That means that the game is prety much set in favor of the anti town, right? I dunno statistics, but if the seer has two living innocents are a single guilty, I think it'd be a good idea to claim.

[TheOtherFiction]

If I am Seer, Sir B is not a wolf and Rhinnox is not a wolf.

[TheOtherFiction]

make that l-1

Vote: funky

[TheOtherFiction]

Since I am town, I have to disagree. Part of my problem in this game is I feel like I'm surround by scum (I am...) but as said above, Funky is probably wolf. I want him gone. Then I want mafia lynched/shot. THe wolf(s) are gonna need to kill mafia over town. I think that Rhin is mafia, Yos2 is mafia, Scooby is mafia.

I think Funky and Hiraki are wolves.

[TheOtherFiction]

OH right, Hiraki is dead. In that case, I don't know. Wow, Hiraki was town. >.>

[TheOtherFiction]

Not seer.

[TheOtherFiction]

I just figured out why the wolves didn't kill. It's cause with 5 aive only two people are town. If he killed seer, then that means the mafia would know x is town/wolf and y is town/wolf. I know it's not helpful, but I don't wholly see the benefit of not killing.

That means that if we lynch the other wolf today, town loses. If mafia is lynched today, then wolf can kill making it a three way endgame that town loses, or the game could be a tie. Unless the towns-man votes no lynch so then mafia nor wolf could vote together because the mafia would be outted, die that night and wolf wins. But nevertheless, the town can't win, can they? Unless, of course, we lynch mafia today and wolf kills mafia, but that's not possible.


Guys, is town just screwed, or is it just me? Seer should probably out innocents at this point, if that innocent is alive.

[TheOtherFiction]

I feel like as a townie I would be validated in randomly voting a person who is not UN on the basis I have a 66% chance of voting mafia not wolf. Is there any reason I shouldn't?

[TheOtherFiction]

So you think I am mafia because of Yos2, who was a werewolf?

[TheOtherFiction]

No, I think you may be a wolf, because of Yos2, who was a werewolf. If I look into that and there is something to it, I will revise my opinion that you are mafia.

I miss something?

I'm wondering whether we have ToF-SirB as mafia

and Yos's move against Scooby was him throwing some distance between them under the assumption that as an experienced player still left he'd be seer'd that night.

This.

[TheOtherFiction]

Mmmmm, nothing

Primate

[TheOtherFiction]

Yeah, that. sup.

Vote: Primate