Open 338 Jungle Republic StefanBversion - FIN

[Yosarian2]

Oh shoot, I forgot, 12 players. Do we no-lynch today or in mylo? Or do we not no-lynch with the way the setup is? I don't know what the usual procedure is in multiscum games with only one kill.

I don't think we no-lynch here. If we wipe out the warewolves first, then the game basically becomes a nightless game with no kill at all, which means that odds and evens don't matter, the more townies at that point the better. Also, cross-kills (the wolves killing the mafia) are fairly likely at this point.

There may be a point when we want to no-lynch in the future, based on how the numbers go (like if we wipe out the mafia first, we'll probably want to no-lynch to get on odds) but not now I think.

[Yosarian2]

Question for all; would you rather lynch a wolf or a mafia today?

Probably a wolf; bringing the warewolf group from 2 members down to 1 member hurts them more then lowering the mafia group from 3 members to 2 members hurts them. Dosn't really matter that much, though.

Mostly I want to lynch some kind of scum. I've been in jungle republic games before, and the biggest risk to the town is that if you lynch town day 1, then scum have a true majority of the game, and then the game starts to get...really weird. Scumhunting and voting themselves basically start to break down when the town is in the minority; it's still winnable for the town, but it psychologically and practically gets a hell of a lot harder.

On the bright side, we have a 50/50 chance of lynching scum today, so we can hopefully avoid that.

[Yosarian2]

Also,

Vote:primate

because he's said in the past that he's better at posting content when he feels pressured.

[Yosarian2]

Question for all; would you rather lynch a wolf or a mafia today?

I think I'd rather get rid of the werewolf nk first. I also think that it's more easy to catch mafia when there are a lot of them because they interact more.

Eh. If we just go after people in one scumgroup or the other for the first few days (say, if we lynch a warewolf, town, then another warewolf) we risk basically giving the game to the mafia. Ideally we want to winnow down both scum groups, rather then just wiping one of them out, if we can; lynching a warewolf today and a mafia tomorrow, or vice versa, would be ideal.

[Yosarian2]

hmm... well I'm still not entirely saitisfied with cobbler but there is another thing I've noticed.

IIOA, IIOA, Random Vote?, IIOA.

Noticing this pattern here with Yos. Its still early and I can give a pass on the first 3 because collectively they're basically your first post and you were answering distinct questions, but the last 1 is starting to raise some red flags for me. Too much talk about theory*.

Posting information, or setup discussion, or whatever, is only a scumtell if you do it instead of actual scumhunting. I don't think anyone this game had done any actual scumhunting as of page 2, so you're basically just calling me out for posting more stuff then other people. Discussing the setup is actually a perfeclty good way to get conversation going on early pages of a game. "information instead of analysis" is a silly thing to say, at a point of the game where there's nothing to analyze.

[Yosarian2]

hmm... well I'm still not entirely saitisfied with cobbler but there is another thing I've noticed.

IIOA, IIOA, Random Vote?, IIOA.

Noticing this pattern here with Yos. Its still early and I can give a pass on the first 3 because collectively they're basically your first post and you were answering distinct questions, but the last 1 is starting to raise some red flags for me. Too much talk about theory*.

The last one is also somewhat strange in that he's correcting someone for saying something similar to what he said in his second post. That they'd prefer to go after wolves first.

Yos what is drastically different from what scooby says here

I think I'd rather get rid of the werewolf nk first.

I also think that it's more easy to catch mafia when there are a lot of them because they interact more.

form you here:

Probably a wolf; bringing the warewolf group from 2 members down to 1 member hurts them more then lowering the mafia group from 3 members to 2 members hurts them.

Dosn't really matter that much, though.

that needed you to educate him of the risks of ignoring the mafia?

There's a big difference between "it would be nice to lynch a wolf day 1" and "we want to wipe out the wolf group before we worry about the mafia." Basically, what I'm saying is that if we lynch a member from scum group A on day one, we want to try to lynch someone from scum group B on day two. We really do not want to focus on just one scumgroup while the other scumgroup cruises to a win, we want to shrink both scumgroups as we go.

And it actually does make a significant difference to how the town plays; usually after you lynch a scum, you focus on looking for connections and trying to find possible partners, but in a jungle republic game, you don't necessarily want to do that right away.

[Yosarian2]

On an unrelated note, Primate's inital post sounded vaugly town-ish to me, so I'll

Unvote:Primate

Vote:princesskdw

, who hasn't posted yet. (/slightly better then random vote since I have a weak town read on a few people and obviously have no read on her.)

[Yosarian2]

On an unrelated note, Primate's inital post sounded vaugly town-ish to me, so I'll

Unvote:Primate

Vote:princesskdw

, who hasn't posted yet. (/slightly better then random vote since I have a weak town read on a few people and obviously have no read on her.)

Why did you feel the need to type the parenthesized?

Do you think there's any harm to me explaining my vote here? It's cool to vote people without explaning to see how they react, but you only get a useful reaction if they are going to wonder if you have some kind of magic super-awesome scum read on them based on something; there's no point to doing that in a daystart game on day 1 while voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Otherwise, I think it's usually useful to explain why you're doing what you're doing.

[Yosarian2]

On an unrelated note, Primate's inital post sounded vaugly town-ish to me, so I'll

Unvote:Primate

Vote:princesskdw

, who hasn't posted yet. (/slightly better then random vote since I have a weak town read on a few people and obviously have no read on her.)

Why did you feel the need to type the parenthesized?

Do you think there's any harm to me explaining my vote here? It's cool to vote people without explaning to see how they react, but you only get a useful reaction if they are going to wonder if you have some kind of magic super-awesome scum read on them based on something; there's no point to doing that in a daystart game on day 1 while voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Otherwise, I think it's usually useful to explain why you're doing what you're doing.

I thought "who hasn't posted yet" would've covered that.

(shrug)

Again, I'm not sure I get the reasoning behind this like of questioning. Do you think there's something anti-town about me sharing my thought process behind my vote? I generally think that's a helpful thing to do most of the time, since it should make it easier for people to read me.

[Yosarian2]

You guys should come over for a visit sometime. We could play cards and tell scary stories over the campfire.

And also lynch Yosarian2.

Aww. But I like playing cards and campfires.

[Yosarian2]

I guess we could do those things first. Kinda like Jesus and the Last Supper.

Wait wait wait. Are you softclaiming Judas? I didn't think that role existed in this game.

[Yosarian2]

You guys should come over for a visit sometime. We could play cards and tell scary stories over the campfire.

And also lynch Yosarian2.

Aww. But I like playing cards and campfires.

Do you usually make jokes on games? All I remember from you are serious posts.

What makes you say that? I usually joke around on day one.

Anyway, person I'm voting for lurking is getting replaced. So let me just lynch a scum instead.

unvote

Vote:TheOtherFiction

This is a good wagon. He's not voting anyone, he's making some weak quasi-attacks against both Cobbler and Bastion but isn't really going after either one. Looks like he tried to vote Bastion early on but messed up the bold tags, no big deal, except that was back on Tuesday, he's posted several times since then, and never bothered to actually put his vote on for real. Looks like overly cautious scum to me.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, yeah, prod-dodge I guess. Nothing's really changed. I'm really just waiting for a response from Yos to Rhinox.

Response to what? This?

Cobbler asked the wrong question. The right question was: what were you hoping to accomplish by voting an inactive?

First of all, she's actually more likely then not to be scum. If I have 2 town reads on people in this game, then I vote someone else, I've got a 2/3 chance of voting for scum (9 other people, 6 of them are scum). That's why if you're town, you really want to be voting *someone* at all times in a game like this. This is an ideal game to lynch lurkers in, because the lurkers will usually also be scum.

Also, I did want her to be under some pressure when she started posting, since she needs to catch up with the rest of us. Besides that, scum are probably going to be more passive then townies (that's probably why this game is moving so slowly, all the scum are probably sitting on their hands doing nothing, and that's half the people in this game). Voting for people who seem to not be doing much is key to this kind of game, we all need to be doing it, because "too many scum" games are much more likely to stall out then normal games.

[Yosarian2]

Well that and do you think scumhunting will be a towntell or not? I don't think it will be, but I also think notscumhunting will be a scumtell. Also, is there a reason you've been spelling "werewolf" as "warewolf"?

I think scumhunting is a towntell, yes. Yes, the scum are going to be going after each other, but scum tend to be more passive then townies; that's why games with a ton of scum, like this one, tend to drag and stall, is because scum tend to mostly sit around waiting for townies to do stuff, and that's half the people in the game.

I didn't revote because no one warranted the vote. Even if it were on the person, it would not exactly be worth it. That being said, I must agree with Yos2 on one point, which makes post 85 by cobbler fairly suspicious because he is posting "only to avoid a prod" which is funny since he gave town points to SirBastion for trying to ENCOURAGE talking, etc.
This is ironic and fishy because he admits there is nothing done while barely progressing anything by asking a question about Yos2 (I don't like him, but more like neutral-1 (-5=confirmed scum) but I don't really think that his play is necessarily scummy given his recent attempts at both making the game go forward and trying to scum hunt.

This bothers me about your play, TOF. Like I said, scum are more likely to be passive then townies, and I find your play so far to be mostly passive.

If a townie knows he's town, then even if he votes someone else totally at random, there's already 5/11 chance he's voting for scum. If he has even vauge unfoundend suspicions that someone is scum, or some vauge towntells on some people, he should be able to do better then that. If you're town in this game, you should ALWAYS be voting for someone, especially if you've seen anything you think is suspicious; so your reluctance to vote bugs me, especially when it looks like there's someone you wanted to vote earlier, but then you just didn't bother.

In general, if you are town, and you think Cobbler made a suspicious post, or if you think Sir Bastion did something scummy, or if you think ANYTHING about ANYONE, you should be aggressively going after them. The fact that you're not makes you look suspicious to me.

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, I could argue that voting just to vote is pretty scummy as well.

Vote Yos2

I may think each are scummy, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote. The only one to be suspicious would be the person who hammers, sure, but that's just a silly to assume the hammerer is scum if they just bandwagon early all the time.

Not to mention the commentless votes on me recently.

Heh. Take a look at this post, everyone.

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't

actually

argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

Then he finally votes. But he doesn't vote for any of the people he's expressed suspicion on; instead, he votes for me. Why? He never really says. I can only assume that he doesn't like that I'm voting for him.

He then gives some vague excuses for not voting ("I think each are summy, but not enough to warrant a vote"; what? How is not voting better then voting for someone you think is scummy? The rest of that paragraph dosn't make a lot of sense either; how does him voting for someone he thinks is scummy make it EASIER for the scum to control the vote?)

He then complains about the people voting for him without reason, but instead of actually going after them, he votes for me, the guy who actually gave reasons for suspecting him.

I think we've got a scum here, folks.

[Yosarian2]

Cobbler: So why don't you like my play here?

[Yosarian2]

Cobbler: So why don't you like my play here?

I've only played one game with you, so I might not know exactly what's you and what's you-as-scum-in-a-multiscum-game, but I don't like the rhetoric like this:

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't actually argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

You're just pointing out what happened; you don't actually ask her to argue her point. This is evidence that you're more focused on trying to fluff up the case on her than getting her opinion. Especially since the opinion in and of itself isn't scum-motivated. If she were scum she could just agree with your opinion or not bring it up since it is a logical conclusion, instead of bringing up an opinion without any weight behind it.

It's not rhetoric at all.

I made an argument for why pro-town people should vote, partly as an attack on her. To respond, she responds with the vauge "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", but dosn't actually argue the point at all.

To me, that says that she KNOWS she dosn't have a strong argument here, because she dosn't even make one. I that she knows that her behavior here was anti-town and scummy, and she did it anyway.

I didn't ask her to "argue the point" because that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that this dosn't look like the kind of defense that someone makes if they actually think that what they were doing is pro-town.

If she was town, she could have said that what I was saying made sense and she probably should have been voting, and then voted. Or, she could have argued that I was wrong, and then said why. She didn't do either of those things; she just made a wishy-washy comment vaguly saying that she didn't think there was anything wrong, and then she put down a vote (and a pretty bad vote at that, one that wasn't at all justified).

I'm not trying to engage in a theory debate here, I'm trying to figure out if she's town or scum based on her posting, and I'm trying to show the rest of the town why I think she's probably scum.

[Yosarian2]

so yos... you made a convincing argument that scum would sit back doing nothing. I haven't really seen that in TOF's play, other than her drawing your attention for not voting.

Eh. TOF dosn't really seem to be scumhunting in any real way. Do you disagree?

Earlier, you voted primate. You said he responded better under pressure. Primate posted once, then you said he was more likely town and unvoted. Since then, primate has gone back to lurking. Also, primate has not voted anyone. That post you said was more likely to come from town, didn't contain a vote. So calling Primate's post town seems to directly contradict your statements about how you think scum would be playing.

I've played a ton of games with Primate in the past. He's actually a very good player, but one problem with his play is that he has a habit of sitting back and not doing much when he's not pressured. This isn't a tell for him, meta-wise; he does it as town pretty consistently. So, you're right; Primate's not doing anything right now, and he should be. It's good that you bring attention to that. Sadly, in his specific case, I don't think that's a tell, even though it is for most people.

There are also other players who are currently not voting anyone and doing nothing.

Sure. There's also a lot of scum in this game. Fortunatly, I only have to find and lynch one scum a day.

If you have a suggestion for someone else who you think isn't scumhunting and who you think is a better lynch then she is, convince me.

-Your rhetoric-y post: you're already to the "covincing the rest of us" stage. Are you already that convinced TOF is scum? For example, why didn't you ask TOF for the reasons why she voted you, or to clear up the paragraph that didn't make a lot of sense. Those seem like things a townie would want to understand and ask as part of scumhunting.

There's three parts to scumhunting. Identifying scumtells and spotting people who are more likely to be scum is one. Communicating those scum-tells to the rest of the town to let the rest of the town know what you've seen, to increase the odds that the person you think is scummy gets lynched, is two. And, combining the two, when you increase the pressure on someone you think is likely to be scum, you make them much easier to read; it's much easier to tell if someone is town or scum when they're under extreme pressure. And also by explaining why you think someone is scum, you give them a chance to respond, to explain why their actions make sense as town. So it's not like there's one stage where you try to read someone and then a different stage where you try to lynch them; you do all of it together, all at the same time. That's what scumhunting is, really.

[Yosarian2]

In fact, I did argue that voting is scummy, and only say I could because it seems self evident that if we (you, whoever) take the approach that "all town will keep a vote at all times" scum are free to vote whoever they want without giving a reason and if questioned "I just wanted to keep my vote on someone because it's more town than not voting." It eliminates the effort a scum would have to make in coming up with a legitimate reason for their votes.

I don't think that makes sense at all. Everyone still needs to have a reason for their votes; they should always be voting for the person they think is the most suspicious. I just also expect people to have a reason for deliberately not voting, especially when they appear to have suspicions about someone.

I not only expect everyone to have a vote on someone, I also expect them to be able to explain why they think that person is the most suspicious. Not having a good suspect at this point is itself basically scummy.

If you really don't think it's a good idea to vote right now, then don't, but you still have to scumhunt, you still have to agressivly go after people you think are suspicious. If you had been scumhunting more, then even if you hadn't voted, I wouldn't have had a problem with your play. But it seemed like you started off with a problem with someone's play, and then just kind of forgot about it; that looked scummy to me.

I am voting you because you are setting up an excuse for mafia by presenting an argument that gives scum an essential get out of jail free card.

Of course it doesn't. A person who doesn't seem to have any reason for their vote and can't explain their vote when asked is just as scummy as a person who's not voting at all.

The key isn't just voting, it's scumhuting.

Anyway, it's kind of silly to say I'm "setting up an excuse" for voting with no reason, when I myself gave quite a lot of reasons for my voting.

Pending on how arguments go, I am more likely to advocate a lynch of SirB or Cobbler than you, but at this moment (since a vote on someone is better than no one, right?), I am choosing to vote you.

Do you actually think that me aggressively going after you, and that me voting aggressively in general, makes me more likely scum then town? If so, why?

If you actually think I'm scum, you need to make a case against me, explain why, question me, try to get other people on board the Yoswagon, and generally try to attack me. It really looks like your vote against me was more defensive then anything else; you didn't like that I was voting you, and you didn't want to be attacked anymore for not voting, so you voted me.

[Yosarian2]

Funkybike1 is acting weird, and doesn't really seem to be scumhunting. If TOF gives me a reason to think she might be town, that's probably the next wagon I'm moving too.

That being said, this is an odd post:

For the first time ever, I think that Yos is actually making sense. Does that mean that he's town? No.

What did he say that didn't make sense? Why didn't you think it made sense? Is it because you know he's scum, and assume whatever he's saying doesn't make sense, because he's your scumbuddy or is it because you know he isn't your scumbuddy and you want to cast doubt on his logic?

So...you're accusing him of being my scumbuddy because he said I'm making sense? Also, you want to explain himself and why he said that, so you're...asking him if he's scum? Do you expect him to say yes?

Just read Crypto's votes in isolation (because the "eat a dick" comment hurt my feelings)
and Yos2, if you wanna criticize anyone for doing virtually nothing, take a look at that.

Crypto hasn't explained his votes, but from the timing of them you can get a pretty good idea of what he's trying to do, I think.

Probably be good if he explained his thoughts a little more, but I don't think he's especially scummy at the moment.

[Yosarian2]

So...you're accusing him of being my scumbuddy because he said I'm making sense? Also, you want to explain himself and why he said that, so you're...asking him if he's scum? Do you expect him to say yes?

I'm accusing him of being your scumbuddy because apparently he disagrees with what you've said earlier but that

now

all of a sudden you're making sense, without explanation. And I don't, it'd be delightful if he is and he did. Well, not for his team or the game really, but... oh you know what I mean.

If you actually wanted him to answer your question and explain why I'm making sense, then why didn't you ask him that in a less loaded way, so you might actually get a real answer from him?

Your whole "You think Yos is making sense? ARE YOU HIS SCUMBUDDY" was just so totally out of left field, it feels more like a fake suspicion on your part then anything else. I mean, I *was* making sense there. I usually do make sense; there's a whole meme about that.

And if you do think i wasn't making sense in that post, you haven't at all explained how or why you think that, which is really odd on your part. The post we're talking about was part of my attack against TOF. If I'm making a case against someone that's pushed them all the way to lynch -1, and you think part of that case isn't making sense, then why aren't you arguing against it? Not only that, you actually followed me onto the TOF bandwagon and have your vote there right now. Why would you do that if you thought I "wasn't making sense"?

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, care to enlighten me? Or more usefully, maybe Crypto could give some light into his world for the rest of the town?

I'm not really interested in putting words into Cryto's mouth here, or explaining his votes for him. He should do that himself.

That being said; the timing of his votes (what was going on when he voted for you, when he moved his vote to funkybike1, and then what was going on when he moved his vote back to you, ect) generally made to me sense in the context of the thread; someone did something that a reasonable person might think was scummy, and at that moment Crypto voted them.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I think I agree with this wagon.

unvote:TheOtherFiction

Vote:Cobblerfone

TOF isn't totally off the hook here, but Cobbler looks really scummy here, as I explained in my last post, and his posts since then don't make me feel any better about him. Really looks like he's just trying to secure a lynch, any lynch, with the way he's kept putting his vote on a wagon even though he hasn't given any reason for that and has done nothing but attack the people pushing the wagon.

I'm sorry, were you unaware that there were two scum teams?

is not a good excuse. Yes, there are two scum teams, but if you actually think I'm scum like you keep hinting at (although you never seem to actually come out and accuse me of being scum), sheeping on me for no apparent reason of your own makes zero sense.

[Yosarian2]

So Cobbler was attacked for staying on the TOF wagon for no reason while only attacking the people voting TOF, like me...and his response is to move his vote to me, using some illogical "town tell" on TOF as his only justification.

Yup, he's scum. Lets finish this.

[Yosarian2]

For future reference, we do want to give people a chance to claim (or to refuse to claim) once they get to lynch -1. We really don't want to quicklynch the seer.

At least Cobbler's not the seer, or else he would have told us and flipped out after he got hammered, lol. He's either scum or VT.

[Yosarian2]

i'm pretty sure if Cobbler is aware he's been hammered by crypto then he is town. Unless he wants to send TOF up shitcreek without a paddle by his last post.

Whatever Cobbler flips, I don't think Cobbler and TOF are in the same scum group, in any case. The whole scum tell on Cobbler was that he seemed to want to help lynch TOF while not really seeming to have a reason to do so, and while his TOF vote really seemed to contradict all the reads he was telling us about.

[Yosarian2]

(nods) Funkybike has been lurking pretty hardcore.

Vote:Funkybike1

[Yosarian2]

So you vote for the lurker instead of the scum?

Uh, the lurker usually is the scum.

But if you have a better idea for who we should lynch, I'm all ears.

[Yosarian2]

Also I hate the Funkybike wagon. It's so lazy.

Agreed. The Y2 funky vote seems completely pointless and the Sir Bastion funky vote seems pointless and forced. Contrived. Fake.

VOTE: Sir Bastion

Completly pointless?

What, exactally, has Funkybike done that seems so town to you that makes you want to defend him?

[Yosarian2]

By the way, I'm probably not going to be online this weekend, going to be busy. Just for the weekend, though.

[Yosarian2]

Primate's meta defense of funky is very plausible.

The VT claim doesn't really give me a reason to unvote him, though.

Funkybike1, if you want me to unvote you, what you should do is respond to this

[quote=Yosarian2"]
But if you have a better idea for who we should lynch, I'm all ears.[/quote]

In other words, funkybike, I need to hear you comment on the game. Give me some kind of suspect, give me some kind of read on someone, give me *something*. Play the game, or else why are you even here?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, so you're in favor of hypocopping. I don't think it's really a great idea, but don't really care that much either way.

But what I really want to know is, do you have any suspects at all, funkybike? If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be?

[Yosarian2]

This game is fucking dying.

Always happens in this kind of game; there's so many scum, so few town, and the scum all tend to lurk.

I really think we need to lynch some kind of lurker-scum today, just to stop the game from stalling out completly. If people have a better idea then FunkyBike, I'm listening.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2"]Always happens in this kind of game; there's so many scum, so few town, and the scum all tend to lurk.

I really think we need to lynch some kind of lurker-scum today, just to stop the game from stalling out completly. If people have a better idea then FunkyBike, I'm listening.

But all the scum can't be lurkers and all the lurkers can't be scum, can they?

I mean, on this page alone, there's 2 prod dodges and a guy claiming to be busy. I don't think anyone really is driving conversation. How do you separate lurker scum from seemingly apathetic town?[/quote]

Yeah, you're probably right. Odds are that some of the lurkers are town.

That being said, I bet most of the scum are lurking. That's probably why so many people are lurking, is we have 5 scum in the game right now.

As for how to separate lurker scum from apathetic town; it's really hard. Best bet is probably to try and pressure lurkers to post content, in the hopes that if they do that you can then try to get a good read off of them.

[Yosarian2]

EBWOP: these new quote tags keep screwing me up, sorry everyone. Last post should have looked like this:

Always happens in this kind of game; there's so many scum, so few town, and the scum all tend to lurk.

I really think we need to lynch some kind of lurker-scum today, just to stop the game from stalling out completly. If people have a better idea then FunkyBike, I'm listening.

But all the scum can't be lurkers and all the lurkers can't be scum, can they?

I mean, on this page alone, there's 2 prod dodges and a guy claiming to be busy. I don't think anyone really is driving conversation. How do you separate lurker scum from seemingly apathetic town?

Yeah, you're probably right. Odds are that some of the lurkers are town.

That being said, I bet most of the scum are lurking. That's probably why so many people are lurking, is we have 5 scum in the game right now.

As for how to separate lurker scum from apathetic town; it's really hard. Best bet is probably to try and pressure lurkers to post content, in the hopes that if they do that you can then try to get a good read off of them.

[Yosarian2]

Look forward to hearing why Y2 is not an option of being a wolf. Why is the hypoclaiming not an option? It would suck to have the wolves get a seer hit and not what the seer result/s was. Still like my vote though it's not getting any support. I agree funky has done nada but I'm not sure I see anything vote worthy on him.

(shrug) If seer gets a guilty, seer should probably just claim; at that point, he's already caught half of the scum he can catch.

Hypocoping may tell us if the seer gets an innocent, but that's only marginally useful at this point since the innocent still isn't confirmed town (just confirmed not wolf), and if it helps the wolves find the seer, it probably hurts us more then helps us.

[Yosarian2]

]This is extremely weird - what happened there? You ended up agreeing with the exact opposite of what he said..?

Yeah, I misread his post at first.

I do agree that this funky wagon is boring. I really, really hate just letting him lurk his way off the hook, though. His tactic seems to be that he's under pressure so he just vanishes and hopes the wagon on him goes away, and town should never let that be an effective tactic.

The damned thing is, though, this wagon isn't generating any information, we're 5 days until deadline, and we need to do something more productive. If we just let this drift until deadline and then let funky get lynched, and funky does flip town, town is in serious trouble tommorow. So let's get some other wagons going. There certainly are enough lurkerscum to choose from.

unvote:funky

Vote:havingfitz

Funky: Do NOT take my unvote on you as me letting you off the hook. If it gets closer to deadline and you still haven't said anything, don't be surprised if my vote comes right back to you.

[Yosarian2]

So...no posts at all for 24 hours? This activity really sucks, especially on a borderline speed mafia game (2 weeks deadline is damn short when everyone just lurks).

[Yosarian2]

Preview edit:

Oh right, I have to write that wall.

You could always write a not wall.

*poke* *poke*

Agreed. We need everyone to post more. If there are any town in the group of lurkers, we ESPECALLY need to hear from you; town need to basically post twice as much as usual and be twice as agressive as usual when half the people in the game are scum, and it's even worse when we're on this short a deadline.

And, at this totally inappropriate moment, I'm going to have to mention that I'll be V/LA this weekend. I do expect to be back before deadline, though, and when I come back I'll be more then willing to hammer whatever lurkerscum happens to be under the knife at this point, so let's make something happen here people.

[Yosarian2]

Elmo: I did say that I was going to be away for the weekend.

Anyway, not much has changed since Friday. HavingFitz and funky still pretty much need to die. Fitz, if you do want to claim, or want to defend yourself, or want to do convince us that someone is a better lynch then you are, anything useful, now is the time; you're at lynch -1, and deadline is tommorow.

[Yosarian2]

I agree with iamausername's arguments against funkybike.

I'm perfectly happy lynching either funkybike or fitz today. I will quite happily be on either one of those wagons if necessary in order to secure a lynch tommorow.

[Yosarian2]

22 hours until deadline.

If we totally fail to lynch today, we might as well just give up and concede the game, because if that happens we're totally hosed. Either wagon is fine, but we need to lynch someone.

[Yosarian2]

11 hours to deadline now.

We really need to lynch someone, and the sooner the better. It looks like Fitz is not going to claim, so probably we've got all the information we're going to get. Let's just do this.

[Yosarian2]

I 'm VT.

Ok, that's useless.

If you're on my wagon and town ...get off it and vote someone on it.

And that's scummy, especally if you can't be any more specific.

If you don't think that we should lynch you, you need to convince us that someone else would be a better lynch then you are, and why.

The fact we aren't looking at anyone on the D1 mislynch is asinine.

Ok, Who on the day 1 mislynch do you think looks like scum, and why?

At the moment Im just an easy mislynch....there is no reason for my wagon other than lack of activity and that should not be the D2 rationale for a lynch.

Lack of activity is a great reason for a lynch, at pretty much any point in the game. Especially in a game like this, where it's fairly obvious from the low activity that most of the scum are lurking.

[Yosarian2]

The fact we aren't looking at anyone on the D1 mislynch is asinine.

fitz, YOU were on the D1 mislynch

Yeah...I noticed that afterwards. Along with everyone on my wagon. Should be at least 2-3 scum common to both.

Y2 ....no shit a vt claim is useless. You all asked for one and that's it.

I was observing that you hadn't claimed yet, and probably were not going to.

Anyway, I think you were just hammered, so if you have any last thoughts you want to share, this is the time.

[Yosarian2]

Lol @ the above posts.

obviously TOF is a red herring. No way would he be stupid enough to kill the player who was dogging him for the last 2 days.

That's kind of a bad assumption to make, a lot of scum will do exactally that.

Anyway, that only matters if we were looking for the wolf, and we're not. We really would rather lynch mafia today. If we lynch a wolf or a townie today, then the wolves need to kill a mafia tonight or else mafia wins instantly and the game is over.

Actually, a seer claim might not be a bad idea here; unless we lynch a mafia today, the wolves can't kill the seer tonight or else they lose and the mafia wins; and in fact helping the wolves kill the mafia is in the town's best interest here. Plus any information we can get at this point is good; if we screw up today, it could be game over.

[Yosarian2]

EBWOP: Why? well let's face it, we haven't gotten rid of one antifraction. That means that the game is prety much set in favor of the anti town, right? I dunno statistics, but if the seer has two living innocents are a single guilty, I think it'd be a good idea to claim.

's worth mentioning that the seer's results aren't much use to us now, since we need to lynch mafia today, not wolf.

Still, just knowing who the seer is will help, and his results might help us later.

[Yosarian2]

Hypocopping is probably harmless at this point. I'm not clear that it does any good either, but if we're doing it, let's just get it over with so we can get back to scumhunting.

If I was hypothetically a cop, then:

Night 1, I investigated Iamausername. He is not wolf.

Night 2, I investigated Hiraki. He is not wolf.

[Yosarian2]

Heh, I just spent 10 minutes thinking about the mechanics of the various factions involved and came up with a fun one where if we lynch WW today the other one is pushed into a situation where he's forced to no-kill in order to not chance the mafia winning.

Neah, they'd probably just try to kill a mafia member in that case.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, funkybike is a still a good suspect, just out of sheer uselesness if nothing else.

I also think Scooby is a likely scum at this point. I get this vibe from him like he's just cruising through this game, staying under the radar, and doesn't seem really bothered by the situation we're in now. Very low posting all game, very little content, and today he pretty much just pops in and says "yeah, let's lynch the lurker" while not commenting on anything else. Something about his posting today makes me wonder if he's expecting to win today or tommmorow if he can just get one or two more mislynches.

Vote:scooby

Note that scooby and funkybike might both be scum, but they're probably not scum in the same group.

[Yosarian2]

Scooby: You think you're not coasting through the game? Ok, then. Other then Funky, who do you think is scum? Who do you think is town?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2: neutral read until 479. Might be biased by OMGUS but with 5 scum alive, this attack reeks.

Yeah, this is pretty bad; considering all game all you've really done is first followed the TOF wagon I started, and then later followed the funkybike wagon I started, saying now that you think I'm scum because you don't like that I suspect you really seems scummy.

[Yosarian2]

You mentioned you're taking credit for starting earlier wagons on TOF and funky - neither of them have been lynched. Are you ok with that?

I think Funky is probably going to be lynched today, and I'm not opposed to that; he hasn't really done anything pro-town all game. I just didn't want the whole day to blow by with everyone quicklynching one person and no competing wagons at all; we need to generate information, we need to get more people talking, not less. So, yeah, I was trying to pick out someone else who I think is likely scum but who hasn't really gotten any attention at all yet this game.

I'm also a little weirded out by how easily the Funky wagon is moving today; it's had no opposition at all, which in a game with this many scum means that basically all the scum in both groups are probably backing the wagon, or at least not fighting it. Could be a bus, I guess, but I don't really see scum bussing at this point of the game.

[Yosarian2]

Other wagons are starting now, but there was a huge push on FB at daybreak.

which didn't result in his lynch because...?

(i'll give you a clue; the answer is not 'he is town'.)

So, where's the credible counterwagon?

Either a 3 man mafia or a 2 man wolf group should easily be able to make a reasonable looking counterwagon in an 8 player game with no problem, but it hasn't happened.

[Yosarian2]

I am not the seer.

This is either the stroke of luck we needed, or a strong wolf-gambit on Iamusername's part, since he's right, one mislynch today and the town can't win. If someone else is the real seer, then they need to counterclaim immediately. Otherwise, we lynch his guilty.

[Yosarian2]

Vote:Iamausername

Now would be a good time for the real seer to stop screwing around and counterclaim him.

[Yosarian2]

There's only two possibilities here; either Iamausername is not the real seer and is a wolf going for the win, in which case the real seer needs to speak up pronto, or he is the real seer, but he has no useful results so he's faking a guilty in lynch or lose to try to control the lynch.

If you're a wolf, I expect the real seer is going to counterclaim at which point things are going to get really interesting, but if you're just gambling and faking a guilty on me, quit it, you're going to cost the town the game.