Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[Cheery Dog]

This is now a prod-dodge post.

Except I have to go vote the non-confirmer
VOTE: Spencer22

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: Klick

This again? I guess I better assume you're scum this time then since you weren't in tit for tat when you did that same thing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Klick

[Cheery Dog]

Neither did me assuming you were scum because of it in tit for tat. (open 455)
Doesn't stop me from making assumptions based on the same thing.

[Cheery Dog]

So Cheery tell me... do you know how Klick scum play is?

he replaced out of the game I was meant to be understanding his scum meta, so nope.
so I pretty much only know how he played as town in the same I mentioned. (and him being sherlock in the game he was talking about to jacob (also town))

[Cheery Dog]

Do you know the difference between how hd plays each alignment?

[Cheery Dog]

(Ongoing games obviously not included in any way, shape, or form in that)

You've flipped as scum, that counts as meta, you just can't discuss it.

[Cheery Dog]

^Is that a Klick meta thing?

If so, links and explanations required.

I think he does it in all open games, generally to make people discuss something and not just random vote.

[Cheery Dog]

There are masons and suicidal abilities in pick your poison?

Assuming you're actually talking about 470 (masons and mafia), scum didn't shoot you and I don't think anyone believed that they did either, I know you weren't on my mason reads list that game, and as the only person here that also played that game (unless you count klick stealing your slot), that's a great big whopping lie and deserves voted more than my hate of klick's self voting.

unvote, vote venrob

[Cheery Dog]

I skimmed, but just a note: Venrob is going to be completely unreadable, and if you are correct on him, it will be based on luck.

I think he is easier to read than for sake for something approximately on the opposite end of the spectrum, you. I just like voting him early and do believe early wagons on him allow better readability. I don't want him lynched yet either, just wagoned

[Cheery Dog]

(also, I'll say that I'm very easily readable - whatever you feel first, I'm the opposite alignment. )

So you are scum?
(I only voted you because I was hoping to get someone acting like Disturbed did in 455, I properly didn't do a good job of getting that to happen again though, not that it actually would)

[Cheery Dog]

You actually voted though (even if you were already voting him), your one was therefore better.

[Cheery Dog]

Is there any one also thinks That KX is posts are null or Is it just me?

I think they actually point to town, unhelpful town, but town nonetheless. Though if they keep up the posturing it'll quickly go the other way, so yeah I guess null is a fair assessment for now.

[Cheery Dog]

ITT Cheery Dog is wrong.

So, so wrong.

Very wrong.

So KX is active lurking with paragraphs?

[Cheery Dog]

So KX is active lurking with paragraphs?

And doing that during the early stages of a gamer where almost everyone is also active lurking makes him scum how?

[Cheery Dog]

@CD: What do you think of AA9?

Slight lean town.
Seems to be trying to read KX, and it's not over the top, therefore town attitude to getting a read of someone.

[Cheery Dog]

Lol reads are same for me day 1-2. Until enough info or dead maf im useless

You should try asking questions and attempting to analyse people then, there's definity enough info to be able to esbtalish some resemblance to reads (even if they're just town because those are a lot easier to gain)

[Cheery Dog]

CD how much does ven's slip matter to you?

I'm just currently doing vote all liars (not lynch at this stage), I don't actually consider it a slip, but I feel having the vote there will help me understand Venrob's alignment.

[Cheery Dog]

I like that wagon on Josh, but I not really a fan of how fast it is travelling.

And about Spencer.. He hasn't made any posts. Aren't we suppose to asking for Prod?

He did make one post, but it's not something we can read.
Probably a player that wasn't prepared for how much discussion we have in games.

[Cheery Dog]

Can I not be lynched for this?

Depends if he is your partner or not, I'm thinking he possibly is

[Cheery Dog]

Right now, I'm worried about my particular reasons for the lynch;

Just your own reason? So you're happy with everyone's elses reasons, which besides Venrob's wanting a flip are in vagueness exactly the same as your own (given) reasons for the Josh lynch?

[Cheery Dog]

I mean if I find someone scummy, I'm more worried about the reasons I have for lynching them than the reasons of the rest of the wagon

I personally believe wagon analysis is best done after the flip, not before.

If people are joining your wagon with weak reasons, there may be a problem with it. But my point is the reason you voted that wagon was the same as what most people (everyone but venrob) used, so if you're worrying about your own reasons, shouldn't you also worry about other people who are using the

same thing

@Els, are you meaning to talk to Jacob or are you meaning your scumread Josh?

[Cheery Dog]

It's also documented by the ratio of town to scum in games that any player is more likely to be town than scum.

[Cheery Dog]

@Els, are you meaning to talk to Jacob or are you meaning your scumread Josh?

My question was for Jacob not Josh. I'm currently watching how the situation evolves for Josh, and <redacted until Jacob answers>.

~ Els

I was just checking because you named the wrong one at the start of your reasons for voting Josh post. I think I want the answer from Josh anyway.

On a slightly different matter, is there anyone (excluding Josh himself and Venrob's null wtf vote) that doesn't have a scum read of any kind on Josh?

[Cheery Dog]

list if things

You know I was actually wanting everyone to answer that themselves. I'm capable of producing my own lists about what I had seen previously - it all being done by one person renders my purpose useless

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery were our reasons for voting josh the same as hd? Were nic's reasons the same?

I did say most people had the same reasons. Which if I'm really correctly are the not giving content, attacking someone else for not giving content about other people and other anti-town things.

Actually that might just be my own reasons for believing him scummy, and they fit in with everyone elses.

And putting that feeling into words means I'm actually now not convinced at all that he is scum. Venrob's L-1 vote is still from scum though, not sure if it's just to get on a buddies wagon though.

[Cheery Dog]

Venrob and Josh are equally scummy in my eyes, but Venrob has promised D2 activity. Josh hasn't provided anything of value in my eyes, and I don't think he plans on doing so.

I thought he was saying he'd be active day 3. If my one game previously has his playstyle right (though he's already made more posts this game than he did in the large normal I played with him that he managed to not get replaced in until day 3 or 4), he'll end up being replaced and probably a replacement will give us more content.
If you're basing your scum reads just on how much actual content someone is giving, ignoring that spencer is currently being replaced - where does he sit in your reads?

Another person i am concerned about is Good Morning, He agrees with everyone about Josh being scum but actually didn't vote him

You want him to have hammered now, yet you've now gone and taken your vote off him? This just doesn't make sense. My leaning town read on you has now dissolved.

Waggggooooon
VOTE: Klick

Uninteresting RVS wagons are uninteresting.

Are they actually scummy though?
Most of the rest of the "case" is also reading so crap that it's made my gut say Jacob is probably town, is that what you wanted to happen with why you made it?
Seriously the only ones in that mess that I see Jacob having scum motivation for doing are in there are 164 and 270.

Question: Is the deadline was tomorrow, who would you be voting, and why?

This is a trick question.

~ Els

What's the point in doing trick questions if you accounce them as tricks before they're answered?

[Cheery Dog]

#195 <--This is the big warning siren for me in particular

Only valid if Josh is scum, since he hasn't flipped yet, this isn't confirmed. (and the activity regarding his wagon at this stage just makes me think it is less likely)

There are many players that ignore wagons on them, as either alignment, Josh has noticed it's there with his post, so what actually is the problem here. It's a sign of someone that doesn't understand why they are actually being wagoned, and nothing less.

[Cheery Dog]

Does gut not mean anything to you?
(hint: the fact my gut triggered a town lean on Jacob because of the case means I've reading you worse because of posting that case - it may be that I don't like PBPA cases, because there's no point in me needing to read null stuff as if they're actually scummy posts.)

[Cheery Dog]

If you mean gut in terms of Jacob, he didn't imply anywhere it was a gut read unless I'm actually blind and missed it.

If you mean gut in terms of you...well, I like having a case better than gut personally, but if you're really going to stick to your gut I guess I can't really shove it in your face more than I already have.

The same reason you say it's a scum reaction from Josh.
I don't read minds so I know nothing less than that, general differing opinions happen with all sorts of things like this, which is why I call it null, others do think it different directions.

[Cheery Dog]

@klick, what gave you the slight town read on spencer?

[Cheery Dog]

The choices are either wait for a replacement or ask everyone if he's their mason buddy, I'd rather have a replacement come in before the hammer. (even though that would end up being a waste of a replacement), I feel it would be a better option than giving scum their next two night kills if he is one of the town power.

[Cheery Dog]

Possibly also good to let panzer post before you do anything like that.

[Cheery Dog]

I hate you all for posting so much while I was asleep and them continuing to post heaps to keep it up near the top of my bookmarks page meaning I only get to it now since I'm phone posting.
Expect a wall when I get to a computer and can actually reach everything I multiquoted in the edit window.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd been waiting to vote him for a while, as my top scumread, but didn't want a lynch before it was necessary. I didn't even notice he was inactive at that point.

You didn't pay attention to why someone had taken him off L-1? Or even mods postings about him being prodded?
I'm surprised you even knew he had been unvoted and was even L-1 earlier in the day with that lack of reading.

Another person i am concerned about is Good Morning, He agrees with everyone about Josh being scum but actua
lly didn't vote him

You want him to have hammered now, yet you've now gone and taken your vote off him? This just doesn't make sense. My leaning town read on you has now dissolved.

What I meant was that, I found Josh scummy but he was prodded and there was a good chance he could replaced, so i changed my vote someone who i think may be scum. If everyone decides to lynch Josh i want to make sure that others know that i am with them on that.

But in your reasoning for the GM vote, you had him as scummy because he hadn't voted Josh and agreed with everyone else.
And it just doesn't make sense when GM wasn't the only person to have agreed with Josh being scummy but not voting him, is it just because of the readlists that you're only worried about one of those people that expressed interest in the Josh lynch but didn't vote?

I have time to get on this game for a minute or so, and i just read up...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: GM

G2G dinner is ready bye

Why do you keep placing bandwagoning votes on people who if I read your ISO this game, I would class as 'null reads of yours'? It's not helping these wagons along if that's what you want to happen.

Given the way the wagon grew, I would bet that there is/was at least one scum on my wagon, so I looked at the subset of people voting me to see what their reasons were and to see if any popped out as making opportunistic votes. Those stood out.

Are you seriously saying that Venrob's reason to join your wagon didn't stand out?
Venrob/Joshslot scumteam confirmed
UNVOTE: Venrob
VOTE: Jennifer

And my current opinion of gm was forgotten there, but it's the way the wagon formed on the tail of yours on top of the fact I like the reasons he gave for his read list (yeah I nagged on me being null but it's understandable similar to other reasons he gave) makes me heavily dislike the wagon.

But you still like the wagon on Jennifer? When half of the people are on both.
Add this hydra to that scumteam.

Just read up, lots of activity.

Venrob and Josh are equally scummy in my eyes, but Venrob has promised D2 activity. Josh hasn't provided anything of value in my eyes, and I don't think he plans on doing so.

I thought he was saying he'd be active day 3. If my one game previously has his playstyle right (though he's already made more posts this game than he did in the large normal I played with him that he managed to not get replaced in until day 3 or 4), he'll end up being replaced and probably a replacement will give us more content.
If you're basing your scum reads just on how much actual content someone is giving, ignoring that spencer is currently being replaced - where does he sit in your reads?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but here's my answer. At the time I considered Josh and Venrob to be almost equally scummy, but I thought that since Josh seemed to be a more active poster that was still ignoring a lot of important arguments in the game. So Josh was my highest scum read and Venrob was second. However, things have changed quite a bit. Josh was replaced, so that means to me that he probably wasn't even checking the accusations against him. A big part of my vote on him had to do with the fact that he was ignoring the accusations against him. Now, he was most certainly playing for part of the time I was waiting on him to at least defend himself, but since I can't be sure of how much I'm just going to content myself with being very suspicious with his slot.

I was understanding you scumreads to be based mostly on active lurking, and was therefore wanting to know of what you thought of a slot that hadn't actually posted anything even close to resembling content. (venrob and josh had voted, that kind of resembles a form of content).

I don't know about this GM case though.
My gut screams scum at panzer

I guess this answers the question of your read of spencer then. Though did you actually have anything on that slot being panzer came in?

1) So he went from super-strong "JOSH LYMAN IS TOWN DON'T YOU DARE LYNCH HIM" to "I'll hammer" without any mention of why in between those two posts? There's a thought disconnect here and I don't like it.

He only said don't lynch ever about KX, I don't think the Josh town read was that strong, but his into wanting to hammer does look slightly weird, but I think you're overselling him again.

I'm bad with the post tags :/ I meant to link to Jennifer's #349 obviously..

When you use them don't include the hash tag. (or use the #number in the url bar if you click on the post in question)

[Cheery Dog]

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

Which part of that post makes it that urgent?

I partially agree with you on the point that one could suspect someone but not necessarily vote them becuz it is possible that’s not always you reason might not good enough for voting.
Here is what I saw in GoodMorning posts.. Firstly, She had no opinion on Josh, she just agreed with everyone. I might have buy her reason for not voting if she actually have had any reasons except that she pick an easy way to show everyone that she is side with everyone on suspecting Josh , that was more like she was keeping her options to jump in Josh’s wagon, I am also one of them who highly suspects Josh and I still do but Good Morning’s accusation doesn’t seem genuine and more over when I pointed them, she started calling me scum instead of defending herself, that was the counter attack. Now, She is calling bigger scum than Josh because I am being more vocal now. It is okay to me that if others don’t see the GM’s scummy behaviour but this is extremely odd. I know what is my role and her behaviour and response is not something that I can expect from a townie person.

Just agreeing with everyone else doesn't mke a hammer blow that erly in the day any better sn idea. Why would her giving reasons for the read make it a better reason for not hammering?

If it stands out so much, why weren't you screaming about it earlier and trying to get people to join you on your Ven wagon for it? Despite tying Ven and I together as a scum pair and later saying Ven's Josh vote was a "wtf null vote," you never pointed out Ven's vote to people as being scummy or tried to rally people to your wagon. Why not?

There is nothing inherently scummy about bringing someone to L-1 early in the day. There is also nothing inherently scummy about voting someone you haven't made your mind up on and are trying to get a better feel for. Especially as here where the person doesn't have a strong feeling about anyone and feels 'useless' day one. His vote is null to me as a town/scum tell.

I don't scream, that's just not my playstyle, if you push to hard the message will just get lost in the noise. You can argue I'm not pushing hard enough, but I went I don't get responses about things from anyone I tend to go hunt elsewhere. I hate being told to continually look at the same thing, and since I don't want people to be making me do that, I don't make them have to do it about my own posts. I will probably continue to bring it up at different stages of the game as long as the venrob slot lives. (depending on what bork does with it), but continually drilling the same point over and over again without other content just isn't my cup of tea.

The nullness of his vote was in relation to his own reason; aka some crap for joining the growing wagon of a partner. The wtf is that it was unexpected, but the fact it was also an L-1, and votes joining and already quick to form wagon (outside of RVS wagons - though I've seen Venrob do the same thing as scum on page 2, which may be biasing my case slightly) putting someone onto L-1 in practically the same as quickhammering someone. You don't get more opportunistic than voting a null read - which I may add is what you said you were looking for on the wagon.

Hi

tl;dr while I catch up?

Your slot is scum, you're probably going to convince me otherwise of this by playing a lot better game than your predecessor. (Which wouldn't be hard.)

It's wagon motion not so much people for it. Seeing the wagon of a scum read dissipate onto a town lean doesn't really help the argument for gm to me.

That and you've never disliked a wagon without focusing on the specific people?

And the scum team has me and jennifer on it together? Although I'll say the venrob/jen connection is a nice thing to catch (serra + jen being the more connected pair still though).

Does the wagon moving onto someone else make the original wagonee less likely to be scum, or is it town moving in a block?
I don't like the speed in which the GM wagon grew either, but I had a slight scumread on GM at the time of growth (mostly gut), so the change is the same level of I don't like the speed, but I tink speed is probably going to continue this game, so I'm not concerned with it anymore.
Venrob is the only person I've disliked reasons of on both wagons, everyone else has been fine with their vote switches.

My scumread on you is less than Venrob/Jennifer associations, but currently I think you make an okay third member of the scum team, I am still looking at other options, but currently mostly on an individual scale.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't flow I jump

My previous play history with you disagrees slightly.

[Cheery Dog]

That game I had it slightly more under control... This game not so much
Go look at some of my larger games during the early days.

Assuming you mean games from 3 years ago? no thanks.

[Cheery Dog]

Don't like cheery for:

Your slot is scum, you're probably going to convince me otherwise of this by playing a lot better game than your predecessor. (Which wouldn't be hard.)

Not a town attitude; this looks like he's setting up to flip flop on me when I inevitably do play a better game than Venrob (and yeah, I've played with Venrob too). I'm going back and forth on whether or not I'm overreacting to this comment. I also have no idea what he's on about in #67 with the vote for my slot and I fail to see how it's supposed to translate to this game at all. Null overall just due to the fact that I have stronger scum reads.

Obviously not done with reads but I like to make my walls manageable.

p-edit: goodposting@Jennifer ^

Well you've already started on having my mind change.

damn Venrob's playstyle, I'm now just going to sit here and be paranoid of you no matter how townie you appear to get, but this response is a good start to making me actually just paranoid about venrob and not actually you.

[Cheery Dog]

This game is intensely frustrating.

@CD: Opinions on Panzer? HD?

Both still reading town.
Although I don't see what Panzer its saying as a tell, I can see he himself believes it to be such.
HD is making a right mess of his defence, but his posts appear to be genuine and it reads as townie emotions.

I don't like KX cutting into their argument though, it's just fueling the fires and we don't need three probable town engaged in such an all out war. It'll end up distracting from actual scum.

[Cheery Dog]

About Drawings.. Jacob is adorable.. Don't lynch him please..

Does being able to draw actually mean anything about his alignment? This is a game of mafia not a talent quest.

[Cheery Dog]

I feel as though very little has been gained since they were subbed in other then some repetitive (and meaningless) arguments.

QFT.
Like a lot.

We've had more gain from him than the other option of still have spencer sitting there doing nothing.

[Cheery Dog]

Actually, I think if Spencer was still here, we might have gotten more done. And who says we can't turn mafia into a talent quest?

Well I guess if you make it themed, then sure, but this particular game is not a talent quest. (especially for drawing)

I guess it is one for lying in the case of scums.

[Cheery Dog]

We're also still have no read about that slot, and it'd probably just end up with the Joshslot lynched.

But that's a alternate universe, we have panzer here, and I'm reading him as town, so provided the argument doesn't continue, we're back on track. (unless I've read him wrong, but that's a chance I'm currently willing to take)

[Cheery Dog]

So do you really think Panzer vs. HD was town-on-town?

That's my read of the two, and still happens to be my read of them, so yes I think it's town on town.
I believe I explained why in 597. (and nothing has changed my reads in the past three hours)

[Cheery Dog]

I would also like to note how ridiculously fast my wagon is building, a grand indication that it is on a townie.

Goodmorning's wagon grew at the approximately the same speed, so come again with this point?

[Cheery Dog]

I would also like to note how ridiculously fast my wagon is building, a grand indication that it is on a townie.

Goodmorning's wagon grew at the approximately the same speed, so come again with this point?

3 votes and intent to vote over the course of like 3 hours? Also before anyone had a vote on goodmornign there was quite a bit of suspicion. Please correct me if i'm wrong here

I overestimated the time slightly since the GM wagon happened while I slept, but it still happened within a day, and not everyone on it had given suspicions beforehand on it either. (looking at venrob again), but considering we've now had three wagons build (although yours never reached tipping point - also not including the RVS one on klick), I don't think you can actually use the quickness of a wagon as a town tell in this game. I don't think there have been any wagons so far that have stayed high and dry of votes either. (not including the single votes from RVS again)

[Cheery Dog]

Read the GM Post # 622
Cmon, no body can be scummier than that... She is true scum.

What is so scummy about announcing oneself as a defensive player? What is the motivation there?

because just saying this type of crap does not help me with wanting to join your wagon.

[Cheery Dog]

CD, Firstly, Its not my wagon. Too sad that you don't see how i see it but GM has done nothing but randomly calling people scum with no hard evidence, i given myself multiple times a chance to see her as townie but each time she pushed it away and refused every fact that was shown, for me she is been nothing but a scum who is trying hard to frame someone so that she can just survive.

You're the first vote on it, therefore the one you're pushing. Currently I'm seeing no hard evidence from you about why GM is scum either, as such why I am picking on you for explanations.
I also reject previous arguments when it appears you're grabbing random newer posts and shotung "OMG THIS IS SCUMMY SCUM SCUM SCUM!!!", with no reasoning to why is it so scummy.
This response doesn't actually explain why her calling herself a defensive player is scummy.

Cheery, besides Jenn, who could you see yourself voting for atm?

I may vote any of the current wagons except panzer.
GM and Jacob are both leaning slightly scum to me, but I also think you might be a good lynch, you're trying too hard to get people in on wagons now compared to when you were calling all the reasoning WIFOM at the start of the day.

[Cheery Dog]

You realize most games mason claims only the one claiming does it. The other 2 can stay hidden (admittingly if we had a cc then I'd force the scummier mason to name a partner then the town one to name one and I'll elaborate on how that works later if needed).

I think if we actually have any masons claims, it's probably best to just ignore them and not have any CCs happen, if they survive the night, then we can ask for CCs, especially today.
But we should ask for claims from anyone about to be lynched. (and we have nobody close enough to need to claim yet)

[Cheery Dog]

I'm asking about your new posts that supposedly add to the point - I don't care about your previous reasons at the moment.

ohwait I seem to have read 623 instead of 622. Revising question.
Disagreeing with one post is framing someone? She hasn't even voted Jacob, and if I'm understanding correctly from posts after that, she still finds him town?

[Cheery Dog]

If scum fakeclaims mason, of course he should be CCed. If there's already a non-CCed mason, he can just CC the fakeclaim. "Let's a wait a night and see if he gets killed" is a horrible strategy, as it allows scum too much room for using their NK to their advantage.

It's a very usable Day 1 strategy, scum will still get lynched day 2. If they want to play WIFOM with a true claim, they're still going to give themselves up.

[Cheery Dog]

How does scum give themselves up by their choice of NK? Scum don't NK a true claim and town lynches their own Mason (or another mason is revealed to save him). Two dead masons is as bad as three, so it's better not to leave scum that option. It's a much better idea to CC fakeclaims as they happen.

We can get any possible CC day 2. If we don't do it straight away then we can get better reactions out of people when there is more time in the day.

[Cheery Dog]

What does everyone else think of this?

VOTE: NicCage

I think you're still a better lynch option. I won't say no to that wagon as I don't actually have a read on Nic this game, but I think it might be too late, though it seems the GM wagon just died, and I think GM would be a better lynch than someone we'll get almost no information out of should he flip town.

[Cheery Dog]

I have always my read on him and i was open to join in his lych anyways.... thanks for putting this together
I am wondering who all going to join on his lynch wagon.. and if he flips town or scum.. and how we should move forward

I think it might be a good idea to lynch you to move forward, but I don't really see that happening.

At last HD actually makes sense with some reason for that panzer wagon to still exist, I still don't think she is our lynch though.

This Jennifer one has been going all day with no hammers, I think it's still on scum and her buddies have managed to divert attention away from it by unvoting their busses when Josh replaced out.

[Cheery Dog]

P-edit: Cherry who would you say are Her possible partners if that's the case?

Venrob/bork as I have been saying since the wagon first got to L-1 and right now I'm also feeling ArcAngel.

[Cheery Dog]

She doesn't strike me as that badly needing lynched, so you're not getting my vote.

Having re read the game I realise I was an idiot. Jennifer is town, I really need to read more closely.

Does this mean you'e not actually going to share your Josh thing?

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

Are you actually finding panzer scummy or do you just really want a flash wagon to happen?

[Cheery Dog]

Interesting that the entire jacob wagon fell apart while jennifer one still stood at the same amount of votes almost the whole of the last week of day 1, with goodmorning now flipped scum, I think what remains of my venrob = obvscum may be invalid and the jennifer wagon is actually on stalled town with others being reluctant to change their read of josh. This probably means there its scum on that wagon. (thanks for doing that vote count for us klick)

Since my gut tells me jacob is also probably town, niccage is weird and possible scum, but the hydra had a post near the end of yesterday which makes me want to vote them over nic
VOTE: docture gudsight

[Cheery Dog]

wait that was pointless me thanking klick, I forgot we had a twilight between the final votecount and the lynch scene. (I didn't expect that and it didn't register into my memory when I saw it when reading the GM flip though to today). and started paying attention to the thread today and from the panzer death scene)

Anyway it's the reverse in the opinion of Niccage between these two posts (I do realise they are 3 hours apart), but they feel to me like they're just faking agreeance in things.

My other half's opinion on him basically boils down to too much fence sitting and lack of pushing much. Personally I'd rather look at klick if it's what we're basing things off primarily because of associations he has vs nic and the way they've voted.

~M

Omg i just reread its iso and i don't see any fence-sitting anymore. No idea about what crossed my mind, or if i just hallucinated.

ABORT NICCAGE WAGON. ABORT.

~ Els

@Medhi, had you looked at NicCage's ISO yourself and actually have the same feelings at that stage?

[Cheery Dog]

From the back-and-forth between him and HD I had the impression one of them is scum. At the end I just wanted a lynch and before he claimed he looked like a decent choice.

What about that argument made you think that? What were your reads on them beforehand?

[Cheery Dog]

You know, I think I do agree with Human Detroyer about serra here.

Serrapaladin; a dimishing goodmorning read.

Post 168: seeming town.
Post 274: Top town read without any actual interaction between the top up until that point.
Post 390: What human destroyer said earlier.
Post 653: Lesser of "three evils" (being the Jennifer, panzer and GM wagons along side Jacob).

I'm also led to believe Jacob is still town though.

[Cheery Dog]

Well there goes my agreeing with your case if the slow lowering of a read isn't scummy to you.

@serra, short if I don't believe you about where or where not you may place a scum buddy - unless I know you as an outright busser, the top town read in early game can easily belong to a scum buddy.

Does it still look to you as if it wasn't town verus town?

I'm going to go check gm's reads lists again compared to her reads as apparent later to see if anything may come from that.

[Cheery Dog]

I was responding to Cheery as to why I voted Panzer. I am now less sure about it having been town-scum (although I never said I'm certain of it, just that it was an impression I was getting), as reflected by HD as my third scumread. I am not attacking him for attacking me.

I'm still interested in more information about why your theory lowered, was it a gradual or sudden decline in believing one of the two was scum.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: It's not necessarily the

fact

serra's read diminished, it's the

way

his read diminished that I don't like.

That's the same thing when no obvious reasons are given for the change. The whole thing together makes up the "i don't want to bus, but my partner is it trouble, I guess I better since the cases makes sense" association tell.

What do you make of me calling goodmorning scummy a few times but never voting for her?

[Cheery Dog]

It's just probabilities. When both were alive, I felt good about one being scum. Now that Panzer has flipped town, that's made it less likely.

Would the same have happened (except opposite names) had HD flipped town?

What do you make of me calling goodmorning scummy a few times but never voting for her?

You were pushing Jennifer; you only have one vote :/

If you're trying to make the analogy to my case on serra, the difference is serra's votes don't reflect his thoughts, while yours do (you thought Jennifer was scummy enough for a vote but that GM was also scum, which is different than serra starting a counterwagon to his strongest scumread on his second strongest, which makes no sense from town).

Good first answer.
But that it make more sense for scum to continue soft-pushing like this, even after they'd been called out as possibly doing it to their other partner during day 1?

@Klick, I'm still not sure on bork, but KX is still the obvtown he was Day 1, and the Jennifer wagon at the end of day 1 with a scum flip tells me I was wrong on her.

[Cheery Dog]

BEcuz his play style. I played with him as town, He is very different and odd here..
and what do you mean by that our playsyles are similar?

You're using meta from a game that you replaced into and was broken at that stage? That's a worthwhile cause

[Cheery Dog]

Well, that's an excuse i have expected. Give me a good reason why should i believe this, and how you're not making this up so that i will drop my point about your play style?

My point is that when you came in we were in the middle of breaking that game open, and I'm fairly sure I stopped actually bothering to scumhunt and just placed things only a scum mastermind, who could work out exactly how things would play out, might decide to do as other options

Link.. that's too much work for now...Am at work and i l be here in and off... But i can quickly tell you the difference i found in CherryDog

Cherry in the previous game i know was more vocal,active and he had some good logics over people ( i mean he was doing actual scum hunting), but never agressive not that he is agressive here but his reads on this game don't fit well, We are on Day2, 35 pages so far.. I really didn't find anything much valid to consider him as town. The game i played with him, he was completely different, he had more inputs and views on players... Well, Like he said that it may different becuz i came into that game as replacement but now it seems like that he is using that as excuse for me to see him different. So, I am bit concerned about what he is... Like i said. I have seen only his town...not Scum play. so i don't know entire for sure but one thing i can tell that he is not the same as he was...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=24028
Are you should you're reading me in that game? (or is there another one I somehow don't remember playing with you?) If I was scumhunting there so much, why did you go lynching me over Mit?
and if you've talking me during day before said game was broken, how the fuck are my opinions which I self declared didn't have logical reasoning behind them were "some good logics over people".

[Cheery Dog]

Where's the obvtown KXness coming from? I do not see it.

It's coming from the amount of things that just wouldn't come from scum in their first game on this site. The scum hunting hasn't been the best, but there are intentions there.

[Cheery Dog]

Lynch. This. Fucking. Now.

isn't this what you said about panzer yesterday? Why should we be so eager to lynch on that great of your scum reads when it was so wrong yesterday.

(if you're wondering what I'm doing, it's that I'm actually finding both hd and serra scummy and town at the same time, and the repeated questioning is to test which is more plausible).

[Cheery Dog]

@docteur
Aiming that means mehdi hadn't read the iso to see if nic was in fact fence sitting, why did medhi decide he needed to say in thread els's opinion before els could do it themselves?

[Cheery Dog]

I guess only he can provide a definite answer, but why would he not share my opinion when i made it pretty clear to him? Iirc, he also shared a few times my reads concerning e.g. Jacob and serra in the middle of day 1.

~ Els

the other two were different since as far as I can tell medhi actually had a scum read on them, I can't see that before or after in regards to niccage

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: CherryDog

I don't really buy his explanation, He is different than his usual play.. therefore, Scummy to me.

Have you looked at other I meta, because that one game does not make a case on me, especially if I can't even see what the hell is logical about my posts there? The adding extreme possibilities to the discussion on day 3? Or something else?
I don't recall what you described happening there in that game. The fact game was also broken makes it mean even less that standard 1-meta cases. Where have I been lacking logic in this game that was apparently present in that game?
I'm not saying I didn't play differently, no game is the same.

Please stop rolefishing. It's really quite scummy.

His last doesn't read scummy role fishing to me - more not-thinking derpness

[Cheery Dog]

Assuming you're still here, what is the time difference in relation to points D & F?

[Cheery Dog]

Assuming you're still here, what is the time difference in relation to points D & F?

(start is in regards to medhi replacing out tomorrow)

I'd be happy with post number/quote of the town tell of nic for my answer.

[Cheery Dog]

If you lynch me, serra dies tomorrow

I hate 1v1s, stop doing them because I als don't like following through with them after people die.

Assuming you're still here, what is the time difference in relation to points D & F?

I'm not fully sure what you're asking but the nic town tell I was referring to is this (reason why it was is back in that wall in whichever one talked about nic):

I was asking about it terms of when I asked a question at the start of the day, and that covers that you hadn't had a town tell from him before you made comment of Els's reasoning.

[Cheery Dog]

(sigh)

Can someone explain me why is it so freaking important whether mehdi had or not a read on NicCage before quoting what i said in the hydra topic?

Because apart from being a GIANT DISTRACTION, it is absolutely and totally irrelevant.

Can we move to useful stuff now, like lynching HD?

Thanks,

~ Els

I'm trying to work out if your hydra is faking being on the same wavelength or whether you do actually have that much confidence in each other.

[Cheery Dog]

The Josh wagon was the main one since it existed throughout day 1 (well since 1.5 - and therefore a counterwagon to the venrob wagon)

The goodmorning wagon didn't start until Jennifer replaced in, and I don't recall that much actual defence of Jenn during that time, I think there was one calling the hydra's case forcing evidence to fit the read and one question about Jacob change of heart - which is expected with that type of thing. (and it really only counted as actually because of the encroaching deadline yesterday)

[Cheery Dog]

Serra's niccage vote was meant to have been a counterwagon to jacob right?

And it's still there even with the jacob wagon now completely dead. hmmm, yeah it's making even less sense.

@serra, what are your actual scum reads currently?

[Cheery Dog]

I need to review some stuff, but I'm happy to switch.

[Cheery Dog]

That doesn't make me choosing to switch at this stage better or not, and I don't really feel confident leaving the deciding vote to arcangel, she's one of the people I need to reread.

But since this us the last time I'll be here until tomorrow, can I have a claim from serra please.

[Cheery Dog]

People are listening to hd?

[Cheery Dog]

HD is basically the only one pushing my lynch. I'm about to get lynched. So, yeah.

The amount of people actually active today meant that others appear to have not been pushing as hard, but I don't think hd was the only one wanting you lynched at the start of the day, just not everyone else has voted you. I know I've had a few times when I considered moving my vote earlier in the day, but it never moved previously as I was and still am finding the hydra with less town points built up.
And I'm actually even slightly unsure of that, medhi's leave and then quiting put me off my own thoughts.

[Cheery Dog]

Post 429 is the only thing that really gives me pause on Jacob-scum tbqh.

I mean it's kinda hard to forget your scumbuddy is in the game.

I believe he commented later about not putting 2 and 2 together. (knowing goodmorning was being talked about but not paying attention to what her username's initials were)

On the other hand I did browse (skim) through everyone's isos last night and believe jacob used his v/la to attempt to go under the radar by giving us no content yesterday.
VOTE: jacob

@Jacob, during day 1 you said you found town reads easier to make, why them am I seeing less of them than possible scum reads from you?

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: [Human Destroyer

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: [Human Destroyer

Reasons plz?

Attempting to stop HD from ruining all my scumreads by suspecting them with crappy cases, I think it failed to work, but I do think we'll have to lynch him at some stage because his voice is not helping town. He could also be scum with Jacob trying to clear his partner's name with a quick reread. I really don't know what to actually make of him. (pretty much a PL vote)

I think the remaining scum are 2 of Jacob, HD, and Hydra.

VOTE: HD

Why remaining scum is between these three? If the remaining in these three.. Why did you vote HD?[/quote]
Arcangel/HD team maybe, that second question is just extra worthless.

Any one of you up for a Role claim? to narrow down this list?

The only claims going to occur in this game are VT and Mason - do you really think being on such a wagon actually has that much power to out a mason if they were on that lynch. I don't think so.
Especially when the two lynch wagons you're comparing are on different alignments.

Now I feel lonely on Nic -scum

Why am I the only one who thinks Nic is scum

I have him as town under the radar, and have a mental note to check on him during today, but bork is right about the twilight post being a towntell. I still want to look more into him though.

Huh, don't make it look so bad, I am only directing people to do what they must have done already, look at the lynch wagons i have just pointed out.. there is huge huge huge difference between both of them, its becoming almost impossible to narrow down the list.
How the hell we suppose to get the scum if we don't trust/help each other...

So one lynch wagon being on scum and one on town means they should be comparble? Are you trying to find town leaders or something?

I also still have problems with ArcAngel's first GM vote, and I think it is quite likely an attempt to safe bus since it was before GM was being heavily suspected by anyone. (I do believe there was already some light suspicion around from others though)

I have finished my catch up... I haven't changed my read on Josh, He still looks scummy to me and over the 5 page he hasn't done anything to defend himself and according to the Mod he is currently under prod. so I am not going waste my vote someone who is obviously going to be replaced. so

unvote josh

for now!! If Josh is back. I ll change my vote back to him.

Another person i am concerned about is Good Morning, He agrees with everyone about Josh being scum but actually didn't vote him, and his reads on others didn't sit well as posted.

VOTE: GoodMorning

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Cheery Dog]

Yeah.. I haven't notice anything that makes me suspect him.

I've been trying to go over the Klick posts to see if there is reason she was killed, but nothing concrete jumps out and I'm wifoming myself in circles. She has some read lists but nothing that has me see one suspect per another.

I think it would possibly be the slight town read of spencer (panzer) when he had only posted one post and flaked. I don't think we'll get anything out of Klick's posts about suspects.

[Cheery Dog]

Can someone tell me why i am surprised with Cheery's vote. Each time i point out his name and he comes out from hidden palace....
and this time he actually searched few posts to make me look scummy.. Am not sure if he is doing to prove a point that he been active or just scummy.

My "hiding" place is called bed.

That post would have come whether you called me out on nothing or not.

[Cheery Dog]

I have a huge meta townread on AA

That doesn't mean anything towards my read, my only eperience with her was in a broken game linked earlier.

Do you know how differently she plays as scum compared to town? because I don't know either alignments meta unless some confusion from a broken game means something.

[Cheery Dog]

yeah right.. that's so convenient, Isn't it?

Are you just annoyed that I decided to go with Jacob and then HD at the start of today instead of you?
Because that possible bussing of GM has been sitting there the whole time.

[Cheery Dog]

^that's why there should be no girls on the internet.

Are you voting AA9 because she joined a wagon on scum, or is there something more in the post i don't see?

The way she started that wagon yes along with whatever the rubbish about my meta from micro 80 that didn't make sense yesterday and other scumminess she's producing such as the other posts (not including the one where she asked me for my reasoning for voting HD - that one is null) I quoted in that post.

[Cheery Dog]

Starting a wagon on scum should never (or well, almost never, the exception being when it is obviously fake) give scumpoints. Using the bussing card to say that it doesn't give huge townpoints, why not. But giving scumpoints because it could be an attempt of bussing is bad. In this case, I don't see any reason (in the post quoted) to believe she was faking.

I don't see "the other scuminess she is producing".

I believe that it was a fake reason. (blaming her partner for the Josh wagon being unable to go through since a replacement was coming in that basically removed most people's reasons for hammering))
I believe the GM post Arc was talking about was this below one, at which time Josh was on L-1, and remained on L-1 until AA9 removed her vote

I'd vote Josh, but we need more discussion time before anyone gets lynched. I'll stay on Ven for now, but I don't find him as wholly scummy as I thought I did.

Looking back at the questions I asked aobut the post I quoted earlier, it seems I failed to actually ask what GM's other reads that didn't sit as well as posted were, I thought I had done that, too late now?
Which means inadectuate answers to questions I never actually asked means that I have inadequate information to continue pushing this bus possibly.
I also still hate the "LYNCH THIS WOMAN NOW" crap she was saying and never explained. (though the disowning of the wagon was probably more town)

If you don't see the other scuminess then fine, I'm not forcing you to join the wagon yet.

[Cheery Dog]

I ignored it yesterday because I put it to starting the wagon on scum = not the next days lynch.
I also relooked at everyone during the night and your vote stood out as weird on the wagon. (i think based on wagon feels there's one scum that buses and one on a counter wagon) I also left it day 1 as it was getting nowhere. at the start of today I had jacob as a bigger scum read (and that level hasn't changed)

You were complaining about me being different and less logic here or something and is a bad meta reason when as far as I'm aware it's opposite here.

And which post was gm framing you? All I see before you had voted her was a vague scumread and meant nothing.

And I have nothing wrong with your josh vote, just the reason to then vote gm then.
I'll reply to more when I don't have other stuff deciding to interfere. I've like to know how I'm lurking though. (unless you count the amount of pages that are posted while I sleep, I can't do anything about posting during those hours)

[Cheery Dog]

I would post exactly like you did, If i am the scum Cherry!!
You still how easily denying that i was not chasing down GM, you're wrong and anybody can see that. I didn't jump into her wagon out of bluemoon, I was suspicious of her since the day 1

and your playstyle is different, so what? Why could I not do this as town?

and I'm not attacking you on when you rejoined the wagon, I don't care about then atm, but if you're going to be claim suspicions from before that vote, when you only previous mention in thread was answering a question about one of your reads. I'm attacking you based on when you

first

picked up the suspicion as far as I can tell by rereading. Please stop dodging.

[Cheery Dog]

and now the continuation from where I was up to this morning. (with actual quotes since I'm on my computer)

Every time you call my reasons are RUBBISH, you're leaning more scummier to me. How do you say what i said doesn't make sense? and why are you connecting what i said about you to something else? I said what i feel about you being different on this game, I never called you scum but your reaction seems awfully odd to me. Why are you reacting instead responding? that is no townie game play.

Spoiler: You said the differences were

Cherry in the previous game i know was more vocal,active and he had some good logics over people ( i mean he was doing actual scum hunting), but never agressive not that he is agressive here but his reads on this game don't fit well, We are on Day2, 35 pages so far.. I really didn't find anything much valid to consider him as town. The game i played with him, he was completely different, he had more inputs and views on players... Well, Like he said that it may different becuz i came into that game as replacement but now it seems like that he is using that as excuse for me to see him different. So, I am bit concerned about what he is... Like i said. I have seen only his town...not Scum play. so i don't know entire for sure but one thing i can tell that he is not the same as he was...

To which I then provided the link to the game we've played together. I'd still like to know where in that game (or which other games you've got my meta from) I was more actively scum hunting.

I don't know if you're either blind or conveniently avoided the reasons that i have mentioned about why GM could be scum, If you go back and read through from the beginning, GM tried to frame me by connecting to a personal difference that she had with me on a different game, that was the most stupid reason ever to suspect some as scum, GM and josh both were my high suspects on day1 (josh mainly becuz of his play style) when Josh was prodded, i unvoted him and went with next person in my list who i think possible scum. Your'e reasing to connect me to josh and GM's lynch now seems fishy... If you had thought that it was fishy, why didn't you ask me when i hammered GM's, why are you pushing this now? You reaction seems like that you're here now with an agenda to frame me becuase i came after you and indicated about your playstyle.

This is the most scummiest than ever.....

Unvote

VOTE: CheeryDog

Nope, you never explained it when I asked what it actually was that was making GM a scumread. Until 667 which I did have a misunderstanding with anyway.

Please read my post above, GM and I had personal differences before to this game, and the way she used that point and tried to frame me doesn't seem town, I had been pushing her wagon since the begining but i was equally suspicious about josh's due to his play style. I didn't jump over to GM's wagon becuz i think Josh is town, Josh was prodded and replacement deserves sometime to defend themselves.

I still don't see any personal differences effecting about you being framed, but I don't expect that to get anywhere.

A precision for #676: this kind of post doesn't look like scum bussing because scum trying to bus/get towncred will try to get credit for the wagon. Scum wouldn't say things like "uh that's not my wagon" when it is on scum, it is something that town scared to lynch town/be framed would say.

I would also like to note how ridiculously fast my wagon is building, a grand indication that it is on a townie.

Goodmorning's wagon grew at the approximately the same speed, so come again with this point?

Uh oh. (this was before GM flip)

Unvote, Vote: Cheery Dog

(also fun fact, at this stage my reads of them were Panzer town and GM slight scum)
667 puts me off my own read as well, but it still there.

on other notes
I'm finding it interesting HD has disappeared when I turned the heat up on AA9 (but then so have a few others.)

@Jacob

, I'd like an answer to the question I asked in #1090

[Cheery Dog]

I noticed that Day 1 Cherry seemed to push Josh's lynch pretty hard and he asked the group if there was anyone who didn't have a scum read on Josh. When I first read that question, it came across to me as someone trying to secure a lynch by getting the votes, but upon further reflection it could be a subtle attempt to try and figure out who the masons are.

I asked about josh reads because I wanted to know if the reasons for that wagon also were travelling across everyone at the same speed as the wagon itself, to see if the game as a whole had same wavelengths and probably end up with calling you town on a fallacy.
If I wanted the wagon secured I would have hammered it myself, you'll note I never actually joined it until it had almost died. I also have no need to hunt masons (I'm aware you don't know that though)

Also cutting in favor of Cherry being town is his comment Day 2 going back and reanalyzing the wagons and strength of them. (eg post 789),although I don't like how he calls Jacob town because I haven't seen anything that justifies a town read on Jacob.

Cutting towards him being scum is that he latches on to HD's case on Serra and puts forth a Serra-scum case. While town is wrong many times, pushing for a Josh lynch day 1 (which I know to be a mislynch) and Serra day 2 (which we all know is a mislynch) does make him suspicious, as scum would want to mislynch too. And it bothers me that he's still calling Jacob town there (Which he later changes to vote Jacob the next day).

My gut read came from the crappiness of HD's case and said so at the time (practically all reasons given so far by HD are making me think the person he is attacking is actually town, with the exception of that one bit against serra which I redacted on the next page I believe - which has also made me lower my scumread slightly of Doctuer), my actual review of everybody last night make me rethink Jacob, and I believe my gut reaction to that HD case was actually probably wrong. (as such why I voted him at the start of today), I am still happy to go with the Jacob lynch as his answer doesn't really fit right with his day 1 claim.

I never actually relooked at anyone during night 1, the wagon analyse was just looking through at a few pieces of information at the start of day 2.

[Cheery Dog]

If he were a mason why would he not just hardclaim it at this point?

I only ever hard claim stuff with intents to hammer.
I'm not confirming or denying any possible role hints.

[Cheery Dog]

P-EDIT: Intent to Hammer, good enough?

Good enough to change my vote to you for wanting to confirm who you're killing tonight.

VOTE: JACOB

Which you now have, as it was indeed a softclaim as I am a Mason.

(the softclaim Jennifer presumably noticed)

I also have no need to hunt masons

[Cheery Dog]

You were not seeing the soft claim, and p-edited an intent when I refused to claim outright.

I therefore don't believe that was really serious, and the fact I already jade a scum read on you just add to why you might have wanted to have me claim, I only bothered because jennifer had put attention to the soft claim already.

[Cheery Dog]

Let's explore this a little because I'm having trouble seeing where you're coming from. If Jacob had admitted later to seeing the softclaim at any point (which I didn't see either) and ALSO going to try to force your hardclaim I'd agree with your premise, but as it stands this doesn't really make any sense to me.

I think jennifer was the only person who did pick up on it, or at least publicly, but him coming in with the intent to hammer off my post, was to make me claim, I feel town would have just let me continue hiding, but I guess since it wasn't completely obvious to everyone maybe not so much, but Jacob is probscum anyway.

Sorry, Cheery. But you were L-1 and your claim was so blatant to me that I thought it had to be to others as well (though apparently not..), and I was worried about scum coming in after your post and hammering before townies could unvote you. While I would rather only VTs be killed at night, I'd rather have a mason nightkilled than lynched.

Scum quickhammering me would still be scum that can be caught and should be lynched tomorrow. (yes it would suck if I was lynched, but if you got scum the next day since they quickhammered, that's perfectly fine with me)

@Cheery Also think about when it makes the most sense for your partner to reveal. The benefits of doing it today are that we would have two conf town, they can't kill both of you tonight, which also gives us one conf town for tomorrow. Also, it removes the odds tomorrow of scum claiming to be your partner. I tried to do the math of worse case scenario and tomorrow is MYLO if we mislynch today. But, I leave it to you.

I think it's best not yet, as I believe I am best to not reveal them. (as did panzer)

@Cheery: Jacob town-slipped, he's not our lynch for today, sorry. You were fine with the Docteur wagon yesterday, why not today?

I'm still okay with that lynch, I think after rereading Jacob is a better one though, even if he is the one of my scumreads that panzer wasn't also reading at the time he died.
and if Jacob's town-slip is forgetting his would be partner, I believe I have already explained I don't trust that logic.

[Cheery Dog]

Is he? All i see him saying that he is not confirming or denying his soft claim? If he is the mason, what is point of beating behind bushes anymore?

Eitherways, he will now be mafia's night target. I am just not sure how honest he is...
There is no counter claim becuz, our mason may not want to come out yet.. which could be a good thing too..

Confirmed not reading, cool

Can we lynch this scum yet?

[Cheery Dog]

If Bork and HD don't flip scum I'll join you on this wagon .

That's odd when I'm actually reading both of those two as town that they're that beforehand. (especially bork)

[Cheery Dog]

Why do you guys think docteur is scummy?

My problem with him was besides the Mehdi issue about attacking on you without checking the reasoning for himself, was Els's pre-response when he was doing stuff that would probably be questioned during day 1.

Which would be these two posts

Spoiler:

I have finished my catch up... I haven't changed my read on Josh, He still looks scummy to me and over the 5 page he hasn't done anything to defend himself and according to the Mod he is currently under prod. so I am not going waste my vote someone who is obviously going to be replaced. so

unvote josh

for now!! If Josh is back. I ll change my vote back to him.

Question: Is the deadline was tomorrow, who would you be voting, and why?

This is a trick question.

~ Els

*YAWN*

Cherry Dog is likely Town, Jennifer still needs to be lynched.
VOTE: Jennifer

Sorry, I forgot why Jennifer must be lynched. Can you quickly sum up the case for me?

(Yes I perfectly know the case, I just want Jacob to write it himself)

~ Els

but I'm not ctually sure on them, so all I have is a gut feel that they're not right.


Also is it just me, or is KX's lurking now after his V/LA actually worse than Jacob's was yesterday? I don't quite have the same townfeel on him as I thought I had day 1. And my paranoia is telling me he might actually hasve been scum being the unhelpful town instead of town being unhelpful town.

[Cheery Dog]

That post +

Omg i just reread its iso and i don't see any fence-sitting anymore. No idea about what crossed my mind, or if i just hallucinated.

ABORT NICCAGE WAGON. ABORT.

~ Els

feels wrong.

But I don't think it's actually enough to lynch you today, I wasn't actually sure of it yesterday either, but my vote remained there until you gave some form of an explanation (and that one just there is a better one that what came out yesterday) by which time we were getting close to deadline so my vote remainded as you were possibly a better lynch that serra.

[Cheery Dog]

Can anyone that sees HD as town explain why?

From my limited experience of seeing HD scum (which was half a day), he doesn't suspect people as heavily as he is doing here.
Though I have seen him as town pick up small things and claim that they must be scum, which is more what he has been doing here. These small meta things and most of his posts have townie feels amount them triggering my gut into thinking he is town.

[Cheery Dog]

This is going to happen today, because for whatever reason people have dropped their reads on Jacob, and this is the next best choice.
But I feel I should do this before hammering.

@Docteur, in the offchance you're not scum, final reads please

I'll be giving mine to the remaining mason as I trust them to be able to work with them correctly.

[Cheery Dog]

What about bork and jenn?

[Cheery Dog]

Well I' still happy to go through with this, nothing has changed there.

VOTE: Docteur

and then there was

8

.
(well 7 after this night)

[Cheery Dog]

The flip hasn't happened yet, so for it.

[Cheery Dog]

I could see a Doc/KX team, but I think we should go Doc first.

Wait you think the lynching wagon was all town on day 2?

[Cheery Dog]

ohaI I Intend to do my bah post here assuming it's my last post and this is it.
(at least in thread)

[Cheery Dog]

fucking knew that

Hi

tl;dr while I catch up?

Your slot is scum, you're probably going to convince me otherwise of this by playing a lot better game than your predecessor. (Which wouldn't be hard.)

This is exactly why I posted that post when venrob replaced out and it still fucking happened!

Also Mason QT

Venrob rather L-1ing people and replacing out = scum.

I will not be happy with myself if I let that happen a third time.

[Cheery Dog]

I was going to come in here and be all blah at you lot letting Jacob alive, but then bork was scum and that is more annoying when I knew it would bloody happen.

Also I hate you all for stopping my win streak from reaching 5 games.

[Cheery Dog]

Town losing is probably my fault, tbf

Not all, but yeah you needing to claim day 1 probably did help that way, and I probably did follow on your final reads a bit closely

[Cheery Dog]

There's nothing wrong with nominating no-themes, they can still have flavour, even if they're slightly less likely to win.