Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[PJ.]

Hi

The scum team is Human Destroyer, goodmorning, and the Mehdi Hydra.

You're welcome

Vote: Human Destroyer

[PJ.]

Cool Story. What makes you think that?

conforming to an anti town idea in order to fit in, the way he maddogged the josh wagon for silly reasons

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Mehdi is gut mostly along with his play between him and HD. I'd be willing to discuss the possibility of Serra being the 3rd scum instead of the hydra simply because he calls out the hydra for doing something antitown and then contradicts himself by doing something incredibly similar.

Not a big fan of the hammer offer coming from jacob with 2 replacements incoming and more then week before deadline. but he's likely town

Jenniferr is town(mostly because Joshw as town and her posting reaffirms)

@KX, unvoting because of a replacement is kind of silly. You're obvious new town but why the unvote? Do you find the Josh slot(now inherited by jenniferr) to be a town slot or a scum slot?

goodmorning reaffirming my heavy scum read on her with the whole unvoting the replacement thing and then voting another lurker. I'm very willing to switch my vote to her if the better and much more tasty Human Destroyer wagon doesn't happen.

[PJ.]

The difference is he's town for other things and you're scum for other things. Scum making scum post means more scum. Town making a scum most equal silly.

Every single post with a scum list in it. also you've made 2 large read post which are so incredibly scummy and anti-town you should be hung up


You're also working much harder to defend yourself then to catch scum, incredibly so. Actually, I like the view better much over there

Unvote Vote:goodmorning

[PJ.]

Man, my scum reads are so damn good

[PJ.]

Phoneposting is dumb

Okay I'm willing to hammer Josh. Is that okay?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JacobSavage

Scummiest post in the goddamn game. Where did your strong town read on him go?

Hi

The scum team is Human Destroyer, goodmorning, and the Mehdi Hydra.

You're welcome

Vote: Human Destroyer

Where the fuck did this come from?

Cool Story. What makes you think that?

conforming to an anti town idea in order to fit in, the way he maddogged the josh wagon for silly reasons

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Mehdi is gut mostly along with his play between him and HD. I'd be willing to discuss the possibility of Serra being the 3rd scum instead of the hydra simply because he calls out the hydra for doing something antitown and then contradicts himself by doing something incredibly similar.

Not a big fan of the hammer offer coming from jacob with 2 replacements incoming and more then week before deadline. but he's likely town

Jenniferr is town(mostly because Joshw as town and her posting reaffirms)

@KX, unvoting because of a replacement is kind of silly. You're obvious new town but why the unvote? Do you find the Josh slot(now inherited by jenniferr) to be a town slot or a scum slot?

goodmorning reaffirming my heavy scum read on her with the whole unvoting the replacement thing and then voting another lurker. I'm very willing to switch my vote to her if the better and much more tasty Human Destroyer wagon doesn't happen.

How am I "conforming" to these supposed "anti town ideas" to "fit in" if a) I was the one driving the Josh wagon and b) I have a semi-unorthodox scum read on Jacob?

Man, my scum reads are so damn good

Maybe in some other dimension, they are.

using the whole scumlist thing, build town cred to help a bad case.

[PJ.]

I always do scum lists. Just search around, you'll find them.

Except the case wasn't bad (it isn't applicable anymore because Jennifer strikes me as town on first impression but whatever)

It was definently bad, and listing scum suspects is scummy and anti-town

[PJ.]

Given the current situation, even if you're making a false case, there simply isn't enough to go off of for anything substantial to emerge. The idea behind making a false case should be that a person who's mainly considered town has been, in their own way, flying under the radar, and avoiding criticism. Your goal would be to create a prob

Cases are scummy. Creating a false case is probably more scummy. HD and Goodmorning are scum

[PJ.]

EditL Sorry for tripl post, I was responding to all of KX's post and i'm sleepy

[PJ.]

I think I stated everything quite clearly, what do you need clarification on?

[PJ.]

@All

More votes on Goodmorning please.

Also, This

[PJ.]

@Panzer

a) Why would a case more likely come from a scum mindset than a town mindset?

b) Which case(s) is/are false and why is/are it/they false?

Cases disrupt the town by causing a back and forth that distracts from scumhunting

KX implied I was making false cases or exaggerating my cases. I was saying that deliberately doing either is scummy.

Pretty much just be more specific. You've made a number of claims so far, but call me stupid, I haven't been able to figure out how you arrived at those conclusions. Site specific examples and explain the reasoning behind your conclusion. I mean, you've made stabs at how your logic fits together, such as #358, but, at least for me, you never quite connect them together or to reality. I don't entirely disagree with you, as I said I find they should be investigated more, but I'm not seeing you doing that.

I'm not going to make a post by post case, because those are scummy. Instigating the use of scum suspect list is both anti-town and scummy as it directs the scum and does give the town any real benefit(good morning). Doing something with direct intent of gaining town cred to facilitate a mislynch(hd), Jumping from lurker to lurker to appear more town is scummy(good morning). i'm sure there's more but sleepy.

[PJ.]

And panzer isn't the argument on cases just that it's a different way to push things? HD thought jacob was scum. He pushed by a case which generally has more weight attached. How is pushing his scum read like that scummy? The back and forth discussion you're saying is a problem never occurred (and I'd argue back and forths are the best way to really see people pressured and discuss things instead of just having them calmly comment).

~M

It's an anti-town way to push things at best. Of course it didn't happen, the guy who he made the case against was inactive.

All. 1 sentence each is enough.

And I thought it was directed to me but I gave my feelings on gm at the top of this page and bottom of last page. I don't think he's scum. Go iso him and he does have content.
~M

Having content =/= not scummy. All of the content is scummy.

Who is GM?

I did this too


Jennifer isn't scum. Not sure if Venrob is, but I'm still much more comfortable lynching obv scum goodmorning here.

[PJ.]

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Pics or it didn't happen

OK, where? You're making a pretty brazen assertion here sans evidence.

Answer this please.

I already did.

[PJ.]

Firstly,
UNVOTE:

Secondly don't really get what thus whole GM thing is, personally I haven't seen it but then again maybe need to read closer.

Jennifer's case on GM is that she isn't voting her top scum suspects and is bandwagoning

My reason for voting her is that she is moved her vote from a replacement slot to a lurker spot with no reason and started a string of scummy/anti-town post with the scum suspect list.

[PJ.]

Jennifer is literally the person I'm least willing to vote right now.

[PJ.]

Panz, whats your read on GM? I am sorry if you have already stated that before.. but if you can put it across that would be great.

@Mod - Can we get current VOTE tally?

She's scum. Said it a bunch of times, probably in every single one of my post.

On NicCage: Post a big wall about me then votes Jennifer at the end? Not sure if scum or bad. Other then that, I'm not gonna point by point answer his wall, because walls are anti-town.

Avoiding the wagon on Venrob and his own Wagon. Tunneling on KX and then disappering, fun fact he did't site flake, he just disappeared, thats not a good sign especially that close to a lynch.

So everything you said you found him town for.

Scum found guys. Vote Jacob. Ra ra ra.

I think I could get behind this. Jacob is pretty scummy.

GM is still the right wagon. More importantly Jennifer is the wrong one. So I guess I'll reason with the scum and lynch Josh if they won't bus GM. Staying on GM for now.

[PJ.]

@Panzerjager: So you're going to join a wagon your second scum read is driving?

You're not my second scum read, and you're not driving anything. You're not the only one pushing the wagon and you're mostly why I've been hesitant to post on him. Because you and him are probably not scum together, so if I'm holding true to my original post i shouldn't vote him(reads change obviously). This post is ridiculously scummy, though. Trying to seek approval for finding scum that hasn't been found yet. Trying to insinuate somebody else is being scummy for a non-reason.

Either way, more votes on goodmorning scum please.

[PJ.]

Panzerjager, I have no clue wtf he's doing. He's been calling people out on things which make no sense at all to me, then following these calls. I really just am not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't seem like normal town to me.

The old " he's scum because I don't understand his playstyle" read. Lovely.

[PJ.]

@Panzerjager: So you're going to join a wagon your second scum read is driving?

You're not my second scum read, and you're not driving anything. You're not the only one pushing the wagon and you're mostly why I've been hesitant to post on him. Because you and him are probably not scum together, so if I'm holding true to my original post i shouldn't vote him(reads change obviously). This post is ridiculously scummy, though. Trying to seek approval for finding scum that hasn't been found yet. Trying to insinuate somebody else is being scummy for a non-reason.

Either way, more votes on goodmorning scum please.

The fuck?

Where the fuck did I ask for approval in this lynch? Anywhere?

You're one to talk, Mr. Being Pro-Town is Scummy.

I've never said being pro-town is scummy. The things you think are pro-town are scummy. Posting cases/walls is in fact scummy. Also, how is "i'm driving this wagon" not seeking approval. HD, GM, Jacob Scumteam. Hard bus, on to jacob, while begrudgingly getting off the jennifer wagon. bad scum team is bad.

[PJ.]

How

is

it seeking approval?

I'm driving the fucking wagon. That's stating an objective fact, not "seeking approval".

You're really stretching.

And no, those things

aren't

scummy.

They are anti-town at absolute best. You just don't know how to play, which is fine.

Not streching in the least.

Even if it is an "objective fact" the fact you have to say it and be like "look at me being all townie" is extraordinarily scummy. like to ridiculous levels.

[PJ.]

It's not fake. Tell me how the reasoning is fake? Please

I'm not voting Jacob. I said I'd consider it. Who's using the fake reasoning now?

I'm not twisting your words. I'm evaluating the intentions of what you are posting. i.e reading between the lines. i.e scumhunting.

Nice OMGUS though. really makes you look town

[PJ.]

EBWOP: Why are you so bent out of shape by me "calling you out on things that aren't scummy"

[PJ.]

1) You can convince people that someone is scum without making a case or posting a wall. shocking I know.

2)

-Voting a player his "scumread" is pushing the lynch of

is it though. and I didn't even say I was going to. I said I would consider it. You are being very liberal with the english language here. Using the definite of "He's voting" as the future of he is "going to". Neither of which are true.

3) Only small because it's a scumslip you did. Scumslips are generally small.

4) 1 vote on me that is obvious OMGUS = OMG HE'S CALLING ALL HIS VOTES SCUM GUYS.


You are getting worked up and creating a case on over me "calling you scum for things that aren't scummy". If that were true, you wouldn't be getting so worked up over it. You are panicking over something that wouldn't be such a big deal if you weren't scum.

[PJ.]

So Panzer, since your actions are making me believe you're scum as well, why am I not scum? After all, by objecting to you and calling your claims ludicrous, I'm obviously HD's scum partner panicking about him getting offed. Or am I not scum because unlike HD I've been somewhat inactive and withdrawn instead of getting things done? But wait, that can't be, I've made lists and cases, so forget that, I'm scum just like him!

I'm convinced from your early play that you're a newer player. also aren't you IRL friends or friends from another site with HD?

[PJ.]

So Panzer, since your actions are making me believe you're scum as well, why am I not scum? After all, by objecting to you and calling your claims ludicrous, I'm obviously HD's scum partner panicking about him getting offed. Or am I not scum because unlike HD I've been somewhat inactive and withdrawn instead of getting things done? But wait, that can't be, I've made lists and cases, so forget that, I'm scum just like him!

I'm convinced from your early play that you're a newer player. also aren't you IRL friends or friends from another site with HD?

Also a lot of your play is indicative of new town

[PJ.]

You're making a lot of mistakes that are indicative of a new town player. i can't explain it more than that.

[PJ.]

You think my post are meaningless because you don't understand when I'm getting at, and I don't know how else you want me to explain it. I seem to be repeating myself a lot this game but people keep asking me how i feel about things I feel I've made quite clear. I've answered every question posed to me. It seems that the base reason of why I'm getting votes is because no one understands what I'm saying. What do you guys need clarifying.

Niccage seems ridiculously scummy.

[PJ.]

The reason cases are summy is it distracts the town and creates back and forth that take away from actual scumhunting and has a tendency to learn towards walls of text that dilute the actual data and don't add anything new to the game, but since the people of this town refuses to move on from this, let's do it your way. This post will address 3 things: Goodmorning being ridiculous scum, KX being town, I'll address HD's case on me. If you guys want more from me, state so and I will answer concisely and hopefully, clear enough that you understand.

I would also like to note how ridiculously fast my wagon is building, a grand indication that it is on a townie.

--------

I feel as though very little has been gained since they were subbed in other then some repetitive (and meaningless) arguments.

QFT.
Like a lot.


Seriously, Panzer. Seriously.
I think we understand what you're saying.
I think you're getting votes because

it's stupid

we

disagree

think what you're saying is scummy.

Vote: Panzer

You know what's more anti-Town than walls and cases?

EVERYTHING

STARTING MASSIVE STUPID ARGUMENTS THAT COMPLETELY DISTRACT THE TOWN.

Oh yeah, I WENT THERE.

This is a textbook oppurtunistic vote. Sees the wagon taking off and jumps in without an actual reason. Says I've added nothing to game, which is simply untrue since it seems there's enough for a wagon on me. Scummy content is still content. So this is simply feathered to make it looks like a reason. Where have I started a massive arguement? I have actively tried to not engage in a large arguement on theory because this simply isn't the time or place and would distract the town. Also more than one member of this game has said they think I'm scummy because they don't understand what I am saying.

Other than that she has spent a large portion of the game defending herself and making no attempt at scumhunting

All of her votes have been on people with a wagon or people who were lurking at the time. When she switched over to AA9, AA( wasn't posting very often, and it was right after the Josh wagon started losing steam after the replacement. As jennifer noted, Goodmorning went from voting the third scummiest person on her list to the 4th without mentioning either of her top scum reads or giving a reason as to why voting arc angel took precedence over the other 2.

I also still don't understand why everyone hoped of josh once he was replaced. Changing a person does change the alignment of the slot and a lot of people just said " oh it's a replacement unvote". Goodmorning was I believe the third person to do so, which builds to the motif of her trying to follow the crowd and fit in.

Alright, I didn't wake up this morning when I was supposed to and I don't have a super duper huge amount of time now. Here is my readslist, I'll get into reasoning later tonight or tomorrow first thing.

Towniest-leaning

HD
CD
serra
KX
Jacob

Null

Klick
Spence
hydra

Null

AA9
Nic
Josh
Ven

Scummiest-leaning

Also she posted this completely out of the blue. I know a lot of people here don't understand why this is anti-town but give me a shot to explain concisely. A post like this gives the scum a ton of information. They can gauge their nightkills off of list like these, they personally are doing, whether they are under the radar or towards the top of the list or not. No townie should want to post something like this day one because it gives the scum too much while giving the town too little. These types of post also seem to create a trend in which players see this and copy it because people want to fit in, but by doing this you're giving the scum a great platform to spread misinformation while simultaneously receiving quite a bit of it.

The more scummy part of this post is that it came fairly shortly after this one:

KX is town, as in

NEVER

should be lynched under any circumstances. Scum do not stay up til 3am making a big post listing all of his reads. Scum try and avoid giving them so the fact 1. he gave them voluntarily and 2. he did them so late at night when sleep is far more important. Either he's town or he's scum and didn't read his Role PM.

The fact that the suspicion of KX fell off immediately after this post, and Goodmorning spent not 1 but 2 post doing just this to fit in, completely "out-of-the-blue" is extremely telling to me. I may be stretching or whatever, but I feel it's quite telling that someone who has now jumped on their second bandwagon in the classic scum spots(3rd-4th) spent two straight post try to fill this games view of what a quintessential townie would do. As i stated, from a scum perspective, you can write whatever you want cause your reads really don't matter until you've flipped scum and really kinda wifom to whether on not they can be used to find your buddies.

Oh, Outside of my vocalization of HD being scummy, everyone else thinks that HD is essentially the towniest person in the game. Would anyone like to take a guess who she's been sheeping all game?

----------

I believe KX is town from his early play. He spent the first 3-4 pages going on and on about how he wanted everyone to understand his playstyle and wanted to be clear and being overly careful to what people thought. He wanted to make sure that everyone understood him and where he was coming from. In my opinion this is something that is more done by newer town players then scum ones. Essentially because a newer scum player would think giving so much information about themselves would get them caught. So while I believe he has done some stuff I find to be scummy(post player by player analysis, unvote a replacement for no other reason then it's a replacement) I feel comfortable in chalking it up to this just being the errors of a newer player.

---------

1) You can convince people that someone is scum without making a case or posting a wall. shocking I know.

2)

-Voting a player his "scumread" is pushing the lynch of

is it though. and I didn't even say I was going to. I said I would consider it. You are being very liberal with the english language here. Using the definite of "He's voting" as the future of he is "going to". Neither of which are true.

3) Only small because it's a scumslip you did. Scumslips are generally small.

4) 1 vote on me that is obvious OMGUS = OMG HE'S CALLING ALL HIS VOTES SCUM GUYS.


You are getting worked up and creating a case on over me "calling you scum for things that aren't scummy". If that were true, you wouldn't be getting so worked up over it. You are panicking over something that wouldn't be such a big deal if you weren't scum.

1) Except I don't have to use the same methods you do; you have made a big deal about my methods being scummy, when they are in fact not.

2) Typo on my part. Should've been "going to". "I'm considering it" does kind of imply "I'm going to", whether you like it or not.

3) It's not even a scumslip. I asked you a question, and you called it out as a scumslip.

4) Yes, because a vote with reasons can simply be dismissed as OMGUS. Keep doing that, it'll take you far.


OH WAIT A SEC

Did I ever mention how Panzer said "scum lists are anti town", but then completely ignored Klick's? In fact, he didn't mention Klick even once in his ISO. Go look for yourself. In fact, Klick's ISO is scarce as hell. How is my scum list so much more scummy than Klick's to him? Double standard says hi.

I feel yours was more forced to fit in than Klick's was. Serra also posted a list that I didn't talk about. And more interestingly it was after he reprimanded someone for giving too much information to the scum. Probably something I should of stated. Primarily I just think you're the scummiest of the 3 followed by Serra then Klick.

1&4) I've gone into it quite a bit already this post and would like to refrain from going into it further because this isn't the place for an in-depth discussion on theory. Just because I'm the only one in this game that feels Cases are scummy, doesn't mean I'm the only one on the site or that i'm necessarily wrong. Either way, the fact you disagree with my theory doesn't make me scummy, it's a difference of opnion. You are frustrated with my style of play, my opinions on "scumhunting", and my insistence that you are scum, which is invoking an aggressive response of you voting me and calling me scum. You're orignal case had this gem: "Your thoughts have made almost no sense throughout this whole game." Just because they don't make sense to you doesn't make them scummy. The intent has been to scumhunt, which I believe is quite clear. Unless you are accusing me of deflecting people off of the already faltering(at the time) Jennifer wagon, I don't see any other clear reason that you could insinuate that I'm posting my thoughts on who are scum and why.

2. Conveinient typo.

3. This isn't going anywhere. I'm not going to try to get you to admit to your own scumslip. But I would like it noted by the other players in this game that, first you have stated twice that you are driving the Jacob wagon, thus leading me believe that You are wanting us all to note that you are "scumhunting" and taking credit for a wagon(that had like 2 people on) and second believe that I am "Twisting (your) words to paint (you) in a bad light". So that leads me to believe that you are quite concerned with how people are viewing you in this game. Couple that with you saying something along the lines "panzer not saying anything of consequence this game", I am wondering why you are re-acting so aggressively (a vote and 3 or 4 post dedicated strictly to me being scum) to my "twisting of your words" and why you care some much about peopl's perception of you in this game?

Short answer, it's probably because you're

----------

I don't blame anyone for skimming skipping this wall. Most players would, hence why they are anti-town.

[PJ.]

In before "Panzer posted a wall, Panzer is hypocritical scum"

[PJ.]

I would also like to note how ridiculously fast my wagon is building, a grand indication that it is on a townie.

Goodmorning's wagon grew at the approximately the same speed, so come again with this point?

3 votes and intent to vote over the course of like 3 hours? Also before anyone had a vote on goodmornign there was quite a bit of suspicion. Please correct me if i'm wrong here

[PJ.]

Fair enough, I still believe a lot of this is due to one person, that person being GM.

[PJ.]

Look, Jennifer is town. Unless you are 1v1ing, I'm not interested in even reading any arguement saying she's scum at this point.

I'm currently only really interested in pursuing two options. Goodmorning or Jacob. So Let's try to decide between those two, because honestly outside of that there is a good chance you won't get my cooperation.

[PJ.]

Alright, listen up everybody.

PLEASE DON'T SKIP THIS POST!

Given the nature of the game we definitely need to get someone to claim in the next 48 hours to be certain we don't end in a No Lynch. Viable candidates at the moment are

Jenn, GM, Jacob, and Panzer

. Can

Klick and KX

please place their votes on one of these four.

I've already made my opinion clear that I'd be most happy with a Jacob lynch, but I am willing to comprise if it means avoiding an NL.

I would highly encourage everyone that would be on-board with a

Jacob

lynch to move their vote there, so we can assess whether we can get a majority.

Alternatively, please just

move your vote around

so see whether we'll get a majority anywhere. I would implore everyone to be willing to vote someone they don't have a strong scumread on come deadline to avoid a No Lynch.

Most importantly though, for the next days, we need

ACTIVITY

. So please do post often, and don't go on making any more excessive walls of reads. We need to figure out who is willing to vote for whom, and soon.

Big Scummy post. While I agree we need a lynch, what's really the point of claiming in Friends and enemies? Like we know the set up, so there really isn't even a point in asking someone to claim, cause only thing that's going to do is possibly out a townie.

[PJ.]

MASONS DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM

FOS:SERRA

Just stop. This is scummy non-sense. I disagree with my past comment that claims are irrelevent, but heavily disagree with any sentiment on masons counter-claiming. Going any further into this will earn you my irrevocable vote because it will hurt the town to discuss this further.

MASONS DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM

[PJ.]

I'm voting GM and will consider changing to Jacob

I'm 100% town

I think Jennifer is quite town and will most likely not participate in her mislynch

[PJ.]

Could I proposea last second NicCage wagon. He's definitely scummier then everyone who has votes beside Goodmorning.

[PJ.]

Unvote Vote:NicCage

[PJ.]

Know what, I'm sick of this fucking game, and dealing with all these bad fucking players.

I'm a mason.

HD, GM, NicCage, you all better fucking kill me tonight.

Peace.

Unvote Vote:Goodmorning

[PJ.]

1: I'm The Best

2: BAh

3: Go town

[PJ.]

Town losing is probably my fault, tbf