Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Well there is definitely nothing scummy about #175, so there's that.
And yeah, she voted him because she didn't want to quickhammer, which I'd call alignment neutral -- quickhammering puts heat on the person that does it, so not doing that is usually just smart.
Your assertion pretty much revolves around the fact that she is being opportunistic, NOT lazy. The two are not interchangeable, and if she's scum she had to realize that the guy wasn't getting hammered without being able to claim and therefore getting replaced, so I'm favoring lazy, and that's a towntell in my experience.
Your tone is dichotomous in #476 -- at one point you want my support on the wagon but at another you're still trying to figure GM out?beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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So far --
Already mentioned GoodMorning so I'll just reiterate that she leans town.
I think NicCage had the appropriate reaction for what GM did regarding the Josh wagon. He can be town.
Mehdihydra (I'm probably going to call him such) I'm also going to call semi-strong town...#444/#449 is fucking town as shit, and I'm fine with the reasons being on the Josh wagon. The only thing that spooks me here is that hydra dissonance is so easy to fake and I have no idea if the cold feet on Josh/Jennifer is really genuine or not. Still I find nothing else in the ISO worthy of suspicion here.
Jacob is...wow. #164 is derp as hell. #194 seems to imply that all three scum were on the Josh wagon which is hilariously naive. #315 is a lone bright spot of insight I suppose. and then #339 totally shoots everything else out the window and I'm not even going to read anymore yeah we've likely got scum here.
VOTE: Jacob
KX....everything through post ~100 is filler theory discussion. Great. #163 is so so much IIoA. Looks like he's been sitting on fenceville regarding his previous vote ever since Josh left the game, but hasn't really commented on Jennifer's play at all, and that looks to me like he's trying to decide whether or not the Jennifer wagon is going to regain traction.
((I'll vote KX if the Jacob wagon dies.))
Don't like cheery for:
Cheery Dog wrote:Your slot is scum, you're probably going to convince me otherwise of this by playing a lot better game than your predecessor. (Which wouldn't be hard.)
Not a town attitude; this looks like he's setting up to flip flop on me when I inevitably do play a better game than Venrob (and yeah, I've played with Venrob too). I'm going back and forth on whether or not I'm overreacting to this comment. I also have no idea what he's on about in #67 with the vote for my slot and I fail to see how it's supposed to translate to this game at all. Null overall just due to the fact that I have stronger scum reads.
Obviously not done with reads but I like to make my walls manageable.
p-edit: goodposting@Jennifer ^beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 522, NicCage wrote:In post 519, borkjerfkin wrote:NicCage wrote:
At the current state of things, that's ridiculous. He at least warrants suspicion.
VOTE: Jennifer
holy opportunism batman
How so?
It looks like you're calling PJ scummy for a bunch of things and then using it as ammo against Jennifer because she doesn't agree with you. That doesn't jive with me.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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KX wrote:To your first question, it's because of the informational gain and that your lynch would probably break up this stalemate of sorts while I don't believe lynching Jacob would let us say to much. I mean, we could FoS those who defended him
This reads like you already know he's flipping scum.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 570, KX wrote:In post 567, borkjerfkin wrote:Why do you say that?
Why do I say what?
And @Panzer, it's less because I don't understand your playstyle, and more like I don't understand your reasoning, and find what you've presented for people being scum to be questionable at best.
Why does a Jacob lynch give us no information? By definition if he's scum it gives us tons of information.beefycheese-
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Sorry guys was busy pretty much all day and won't have time for much content till tomorrow, but --
Jacob is A++ would vote again (I do not at all get the assertion that the drawing is some kind of towntell, it's essentially just trolling); order for the suggested compromises is probably PJ (don't have a strong enough read on yet), Jennifer (weak town), GM (town). I'd also offer up NicCage too at this point though for the horrible way he got himself on Jennifer wagon.beefycheese-
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In post 699, PJ. wrote:Could I proposea last second NicCage wagon. He's definitely scummier then everyone who has votes beside Goodmorning.
Jacob wagon dies and I'm therebeefycheese-
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KX wrote:@Bork, what did you see last second that made you hammer?
A thing.
I want to hear what the argument for Jacob town is cause what the hell.
I'm not wild about anything Serra has posted day 2, I have no real feel about anyone he's ruling out of his suspect list (see #778, #795). The whole "let's start another wagon thing while I'm talking about it" looks like an attempt to misdirect.
Klick seems on the level but I don't have enough from him to give him much than a weak townread.
HD is gut town cause he's saying everything I want to say re:serra.
Hydra is still town...not seeing any opportunism or compelling case on him.
Jennifer, AA9 both look town. Nic leans more town due to his reaction to my hammer.
Cheery and KX are still on my possible scum list due to PoE. Where's the obvtown KXness coming from? I do not see it.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 861, KX wrote:Eh, really not in a state to post right now, late and pretty tired, but prodded, so. Anyway, the one thing I want to immediately point out is why is Serra voting their second suspect scummy? I mean, I get the logic behind not voting your main scum suspect, but still, it's a scum suspect, i.e. somebody who you also believe to be scum, it's not like you're withholding your vote or something, and his reasoning for it does make sense. Even more so though, I want to question what the motivation for a scum player doing it is. Anyway, sorry about this, but I'll have to put off posting more for a while longer.
The issue is that he's doing itwhile his main suspect is the leading wagon.What is thetownmotivation for that?
The potential scum motivation for it is that serves as distancing to Jacob while not actually putting any pressure on him, and also generally makes wagon analysis harder/less useful (people have to keep track of who his vote is actually on as well as the fact that it's not his primary suspect)beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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VOTE: Serra
Already explained what I didn't like about his handwavy "let's start some wagons" thing.
#920 is self WIFOM. I agree with #987 that a serra scum-flip strongly implies Jacob town.
Hydra's defense of serra summarized in #983 (and introduced earlier) IS WIFOM and HD is correct for pointing that out -- additionally I think serra's read changes and jump on the GM wagon are much more telling pieces of evidence than the fact that HD straight up defended GM yesterday: I don't know that I see scum do that to each other very often at all, even in 3+ scum games.
I also don't think hydra is scum, as I've said, I just think he has an overly simplistic view of how yesterday went down.
@ArcAngel, serra: your wagons are not happening (nor is mine). Throw support somewhere else.beefycheese-
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I tend not to bother with positive connections pre-flip unless it's some weird scenario where nobody makes sense as a viable partner. This is not one of those times.
As for negatives, it's probably not you or hydra -- your stances on serra are too hardline.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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DG wrote:
In your posts, you are basically saying that strongly defending scum is less suspicious than defending a town counterwagon when scum is being wagoned. This is total crap.
I'm only arguing that circumstantially, but really it's not total crap. Scum knows they'll take heat for defending other scum and won't endeavor to do it. Town sometimes is just wrong.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1024, serrapaladin wrote:Yesterday I pointed out how we should start compromising and got called scummy for it. I also said I was willing to lynch someone I'd been defending to avert an NL. I have no idea how Bork thinks 1019 is EXTREMELY TOWN for Hydra, but not for me yesterday.
There isn't anything scummy about compromising -- and honestly I didn't see whatever post you're even talking about. I'm calling Hydra town because here's the way I'd expect both alignments to handle getting pressure off themselves and onto the other wagon:
scum: "Upon further examination, X is slightly scummy from serra and here is why <changes vote>"
town: "I am blatantly doing this to save my ass <changes vote>"
Whereas you've been "I guess Hydra is kinda scummy too" (I realize he's not in your top 2 but you've NOT been calling him town at all)
But you've been reluctant to vote him, even so close to deadline, and now you've suddenly 180'd on him, saying he's town and acting like this vote is just a deadline thing for you. This doesn't add up.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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AA do you have like a once per hour quota within which you have to change your avatar?
Here are the best I can do with reads for the moment.
Town: AA, HD, Nic, KX
Not Necessarily Town (probably goes left to right in order of scumminess but this is quickly becoming one of those PoE games for me): Jennifer, Hydra, Cheery, Jacobbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1142, borkjerfkin wrote:AA do you have like a once per hour quota within which you have to change your avatar?
Here are the best I can do with reads for the moment.
Town: AA, HD, Nic, KX
Not Necessarily Town (probably goes left to right in order of scumminess but this is quickly becoming one of those PoE games for me): Jennifer, Hydra, Cheery, Jacob
Shit I meant right to left sorrybeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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@HD - I missed that initially -- that point has merit, unlike whoever was calling the drawing that Jacob made a towntell.
I think you're "winning" the argument between you and Hydra, which is why at the moment I'm considering supporting that wagon, but it's also because you're seemingly always on the same page as me regards to lots of shit.
Jennifer has been a blind spot to me lately -- I initially townread her but she's been a non-presence lately, and yeah Cheery is null in any other game.
p-edit @AA: I've never played with Cheery before.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 1184, Cheery Dog wrote:In post 1181, borkjerfkin wrote:I have a huge meta townread on AA
That doesn't mean anything towards my read, my only eperience with her was in a broken game linked earlier.
Do you know how differently she plays as scum compared to town? because I don't know either alignments meta unless some confusion from a broken game means something.
I'm aware, just explaining my stance on it.
But she's kind of a flaily mess as scum.beefycheese-
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