Open 520: Stacking the Deck Part II - Game Over...Mafia Win!

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Cause she's stalking me and being in all my games, clearly that's a tell of the Mafia.

P-Edit: Mafia don't pick the PR's

[JasonWazza]

Because i haven't had time and apparently no RL time means i deserve to be voted.

@Bubba: did you even look at my posting elsewhere?

Also i may or may not have 49 games still, if that's off my wiki it may be out of date by a long while.

[JasonWazza]

Hey guys!
VOTE: Jason

I will never trust you in mafia games. >.>

Lol your gonna just make me pay for kicking your ass as scum so many times aren't you? <3

Saktown

Mutleytown

and possibly Fuzzytown

VOTE: Jason

What's the difference between mutleyminimalpostingtown and mutleyminimalpostingscum in

1

Page?

With nothing else to go off of, I currently recommend lynching an experienced player, since newer players tend to be easier to read, and it's not like anyone here is so new that they're potential liabilities if left running the show.

##Vote: JasonWazza

LOLOLLOLOLOLOLOL

This is the good old "he's the IC (newbie games IC not this IC) LYNCH HIM" argument outside of a newbie game, there is no reason i am any better then any of you, and if i am, how does the possiblity of lynching an experienced scum player outweigh that of lynching an experienced town player?

AND OF COURSE THE IC IS THE ONE TO DO THIS RETARDED SHIT

UNVOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Bubbajack8

Someone spammed the thread with game counts for no reason, he "forgot" his purpose, i think your purpose was to look like your doing shit when you don't plan on doing anything

P-edit's:

Fuzzy how is that me town?

Bubba is more scummy for the trying to get out of his vote realness

[JasonWazza]

Realness? I questioned jsmith. I had a reason for that post thing.

It was a REAL vote, don't fucking try and hide it.

Pro-Tip: None of that matters, Bubba. Experience means nothing.

Agreed.

Pro-Tip: Practice makes perfect. Experience matters.

SO HOW DOES LYNCHING A PERSON WITH MORE EXPERIENCE HELP THE TOWN IF MY ALIGNMENT IS RANDOM?

[JasonWazza]

*bzzt* you voted me after that, so again your gonna have to answer properly.

Also "to spark discussion" and "to sheep the IC" are 2 different things scum.

[JasonWazza]

Innocent child Fuzzy.

Bubba: Your reasoning for my question is null and void, because if you believed what you said earlier, you wouldn't have voted me for that reason.

YOU SHEEPED THE FUCKING INNOCENT CHILD.

[JasonWazza]

So Bubba is scum.

The asking for votes is him going "how the fuck can i AtE the most to make myself look most town"

[JasonWazza]

Why is TGO more likely scum then Bubba?

[JasonWazza]

I do

[JasonWazza]

Why do you think he is town?

[JasonWazza]

So you be anti-town as town, that's helpful.

That doesn't make it less scummy.

You want to hear something i find interesting?

"If something's wrong the first time, and you don't change, you'll always be wrong."

Quoting one of my best teachers ever.

[JasonWazza]

How is asking to be voted a good thing?

How is that a townie thing to do instead of scummy?

Why can't scum just say "vote me" and get instant town reads?

I'm not assuming anything.

[JasonWazza]

WIFOM

You want to play catch let's go.

Why is it that scum can't just fake not being worried about the wagon.

You are worried or you wouldn't have pointed anyone out, there's townies out here that can analyse your wagon later, but no you mentioned people.

You want to base votes on something?

FUCKING FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY AND VOTE IT, THAT'S HOW YOU GENERATE REAL CONTENT.

Not this fucking bullshit you think is content.

You want to help speed the game up?

Ask questions and prod people, don't go all "fuck it guys vote me lets end this shit"

How in fucks sake does that make the game content generate faster?

YOU ARE NOT BEING TOWN.

And when I said I don't give a shiz about helping my alignment, it was in response to Sakura's post and should be read "I don't give a shiz about helping PROVE my alignment." As that is what she was talking about.

WELL YOU MOTHERFUCKING SHOULD, IF YOU ARE TOWN YOU ARE A MISLYNCH, AND IF SO YOU ARE GOING AGAINST YOUR FUCKING WIN CONDITION BY NOT PROVING YOUR ALIGNMENT.

[JasonWazza]

"come on dude listen to me trying to trust tell you doesn't all this AtE work on you?"

[JasonWazza]

lol

"guys scum has to be the ones on my wagon"

If scum is on your wagon, it's cause they are bussing yo ass.

[JasonWazza]

Fuzzy is town for now, i can believe Anorway scum.

HENCE SCUM BUSSING YOUR SCUMMY ASS.

[JasonWazza]

Also, your yet to convince your wagon that your town, JUST SAYING

[JasonWazza]

I don't care who's lurking.

Also "when i flip town" isn't a valid argument.

And yes CONVINCE ME YOUR TOWN IF YOU ARE TOWN YOU FUCKING DUMBASS.

[JasonWazza]

*facedesk*

[JasonWazza]

It means your talking shit to try and convince him your town.

[JasonWazza]

I think Jason is off with his read, and even though I'd like to get rid of him, it doesn't seem other people are on board, so I'll go for someone else I'd like to get rid of based on his posts so far (and his latest vote).

Maybe, just maybe, people will sheep you if you have a better reason then "HIS EXPERIENCED AND MUST BE THE MAFIA BURN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!"

Jason, while I find alot of the things he's doing anti-town (the stuff you are calling him out on), I can't really find any scum intent in any of his posts.

He's flailing, but not because he's scum but because he doesn't know how to handle the pressure that everyone is giving him, He's pretty much been the center of attention all game, and no one is really trying to get him out of it which bothers me quite a bit.

It sounds like he's trying to hard, but maybe it's because he is?

It's already apparent that he in a " I'll be dammed no matter what I say" kind of mindset currently though how he's handling it is townish in that, he isn't really to overly defensive. He isn't an experienced scum-player so he would be in hyper-panic mode at this point and I'm not really feeling it.

"I find what he is doing anti-town, but that doesn't make him scum!!!!!"

"He's Flailing, but it's because he doesn't know what else to do!!!!"

"He's already in a mindset where he is fucked regardless"

This is you paraphrased, NONE OF THESE MAKE HIM TOWN.

@Sakura: I'm not Jester -_- I just don't give a F about being lynched, because ultimately it will help town when they realize I am town.

This is really, really town and it is also something I would personally say as town and have trouble faking as scum

No, No, No, NO.

WHY CAN'T SCUM SAY THIS?

If you take this as a town tell, then the ultimate town thing to do is just scream "LYNCH ME LYNCH ME!" and thus scum have the easiest fucking game EVER

I assumed all this pressure on bubba was a reaction test (which I'm starting to think it isn't), and even if it is , it's run its course imo.

IF IT WAS A REACTION TEST, HE FAILED AND SHOULD BE LYNCHED CAUSE HIS GRADING IS SCUM

[JasonWazza]

You are the worst Innocent Child ever, but thank god you are or i would lynch the fucking shit out of you.

Also, "playing better" and "playing townie" are 2 different things.

[JasonWazza]

He's wanting to lynch people based on experience, experience isn't what randomness chooses.

[JasonWazza]

You are the worst Innocent Child ever, but thank god you are or i would lynch the fucking shit out of you.

Hence why i said this Mutley.

If any doc or BG protects the IC i will be a little annoyed, he is someone we can easily do without.

P-Edit: Seriously? I'm going to beat you down if you continue that, a lynch based on experience contain's no info, a lynch based on scumminess does.

[JasonWazza]

It's funny, cause the guy using AtE is the person i'm voting.

I'm using AtE, but what i say is backed by logic.

[JasonWazza]

Jason, Mutley, and Sakura for scum 2014.

I mean really attacking the IC because he would like to have YOU lynched and calling him worthless? Thats scum behavior.

Jsmith, if you do go through my games youll notice I always get to L-2 the first day. And each and every time ive been town. The only time ive gotten past D1 with no pressure, was the game i replaced into as scum, and when i came in i was widely accepted as town even though people expected who i replaced.

It's not scummy when he is being worthless.

He is advocating a RANDOM LYNCH
He is advocating NO SCUMHUNTING
He pretends because he is confirmed town he is RIGHT.

Also "Each and every time i've been town"

THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU TOWN.

The fact that you have been ran up to L-2 each D1 means YOUR doing something wrong.

[JasonWazza]

No attacking the IC for not scumhunting and relying on odds.

[JasonWazza]

Read this Bubbajack: I am fine with people voting me, IF THEY HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON TO FIND ME SCUMMY

Odds is never a reason to find someone scummy, nor is experience.

[JasonWazza]

plus really bubba you still haven't given scum motivation for attacking an IC

That too

Attacking an ALREADY confirmed town holds no benefit to the scum.

[JasonWazza]

I'm not saying conf town = right Jesus.

You can discredit arguments I don't care.

It's scummy to not care if a clear dies, because then all his future arguments automatically don't matter.

Now stop going in fucking circles.

This is your reasoning?

I'd rather a useless player confirmed townie dies then a strong non-confirmed townie.

Call me crazy, but our IC is useless if he's not willing to scumhunt.

[JasonWazza]

1. NO HE IS NOT, HE IS RELYING ON ODDS, HE HASN'T SCUMHUNTED DON'T MAKE ME BITCHSLAP YOU.
2. I don't care if he is right or wrong if he is going to be useless and not scumhunt.
3. Doesn't scumhunt = useless.

[JasonWazza]

How about this, you quote me one thing that is shown by Jsmith against ME that i am scummy BARRING experience tells, i will unvote you and not vote you for the rest of D1.

To counter this here is every instance of him saying a lynch on me because of experience is good:

With nothing else to go off of, I currently recommend lynching an experienced player, since newer players tend to be easier to read, and it's not like anyone here is so new that they're potential liabilities if left running the show.

##Vote: JasonWazza

We've already seen how a relatively newer player can make this game easier for town (i.e. awestfie is almost certainly town for her noobslip). We don't really need a bunch of experienced town players in this game if there are several newer players who can make getting reads easier imo. Yes, a more proper way to approach this is to go for the experienced player who has shown to be a far better mafia player than they are town player, but I didn't go through the effort of figuring that information out. Bottom line, I'm not advocating a lynch of a newbie game IC because they might trick me as scum. I'm advocating it because relatively inexperienced players are less likely to trick me as scum, so I'd prefer they be alive rather than the experienced ones. The ease of reading newer players outweighs the benefit of having a bunch of experienced town players imo.

@anorway: Personally speaking, Jason didn't do anything scummy (he only made one post before I voted him). I just prefer to lynch an experienced player is all, and he was a viable target.

And I've played long enough to know that people don't like my reasoning for early lynches lol, so I'm not going to try to convince town that we should lynch you/Mutley because of non-scummy reasons (though Mutley's behavior could be somewhat construed as scummy), even though I think it's proper play.

Hint the only post you can somewhat construe as scumhunting is the following:

Between Jason/Mutley/fuzzy, I'd personally prefer to lynch between Mutley and fuzzy. Though I think Jason's logic is flawed and his behavior isn't conducive to rational discussion, his posts/arguments provide more information on his thoughts than the other two. The other two's posts generally come across as "you're scum...keep flailing scum...that's so scummy...etc.". Their posts don't provide a clear picture of their thought process or argument, so I can't even judge their logic, because it's hardly been presented. If bubba does end up getting lynched and flips scum, I'd sooner think one of the 3 were bussing over them all being town.

And even that is fucking reaching, it's more like town hunting out of experienced players.

[JasonWazza]

I have not said I think anyone is scum, Sakura.

THE IC IS ADMITING HE ISN'T SCUMHUNTING BUBBA, NOW WHAT YOU GONNA SAY?

[JasonWazza]

So instead of letting the lynch be an information lynch by taking sides, you choose to lynch people who are more experienced rid the town of more accurate lynches on later days due to less info and rid us of better scumhunters.

good work.

[JasonWazza]

TGO the point is your not pointing your finger at anyone and having conviction behind your words like you actually believe the points your making.

It's like halfassing but worse.

[JasonWazza]

Oh fuck.

[JasonWazza]

@Saki, ISO bubbajack, and give us your opinion.

[JasonWazza]

Ergh guys, please stay on subject.

@Saki, ISO bubbajack, and give us your opinion.

Don't listen to him?

Not that opinion, Is he scum?

[JasonWazza]

I know and i'm trying to re-rail it.

[JasonWazza]

Any way this game has stalled, can one of you read bubba realise he is scum and hammer so we can come back fresh tomorrow k thx

Yeah ummm, NS is technically on the wagon already, we are waiting on Saki.

[JasonWazza]

Lol

[JasonWazza]

Obligatory.

Fuck you, told you so, Bah post.

Oh and to go even more with the I told you so.

You guys are basing scum 2 on a flip that hasn't and

won't

happen.

You realize a bah post has no in game info AND you don't get a bah post if your lynched right?



I haven't got no time right now but i will say this.

If a protective role was on the IC last night, i hate you with a passion.

[JasonWazza]

No protective role in this setup can stop a kill. Only roleblockers can.

Never mind me, apparently i can't read, i thought there was a doctor as well.

ohey jsmith. You're actually in this game. Cool.
Jason- What's your speculation concerning last night's events?

Given we have a proven no kill, my speculation is the roleblocker claims, this doesn't assure his death as he can still do a roleblock, and we lynch the scum, the rest of my speculation is this, we probably have at least one more PR, i doubt that a scum team would pick none of the upgrades (i personally would pick 3 of them so )

However, setup spec without a scum flip is unlikely to help us.

[JasonWazza]

Why would it be more likely the traitor got hit then a Roleblocker? (i don't believe it would)

[JasonWazza]

What's the chance that the traitor is the most likely town, compared to the roleblocker hitting the most townie scum?

P-Edit: not really

[JasonWazza]

But that's assuming that the scum a) read the last game, b) followed the same strategy KNOWING the last scum team picked it.

[JasonWazza]

Given the idea of a traitor, i don't believe he was hit.

[JasonWazza]

The idea of the traitor is to be slightly scummy so that you get out of being shot at.

[JasonWazza]

Fuzzy is scum, Soundsofmusic is scum 2

[JasonWazza]

We should lynch either the claimed roleblocker or the person they blocked, one of them is likely to be scum. I don't see what else there is to say.

And here is the traitor.

[JasonWazza]

Post, Fuzz is still scum, so is sof.

[JasonWazza]

If you don't think Fuzzy is scum, in your next post say why.

If you do, in your next post vote him

[JasonWazza]

I don't see any reason for the people voting fuzzy

to

be active, more the people who aren't voting fuzzy need to either vote him and help lynch him, or they need to tell us why they aren't voting him.

[JasonWazza]

I don't see any reason for the people voting fuzzy

to

be active, more the people who aren't voting fuzzy need to either vote him and help lynch him, or they need to tell us why they aren't voting him.

you're saying there's no reason for people to be active in a game that strives off of people being active?
lolwut

No, i'm saying there's no reason to post, your basically conf scum.

Activity right now is gonna give us a net total of fuck all.

[JasonWazza]

Looking at Jason's and jsimth's reasons, I agree completely.

I am the roleblocker, and I blocked fuzzybutternut last night.

[JasonWazza]

I'd vote, but i don't want the self lynch.

[JasonWazza]

SoM is the traitor then?

[JasonWazza]

Then why the fuck did you call fuzzy town?

What are your tracking results?

Don't be called scum claim tracker and then ask for a mass claim.

[JasonWazza]

Here's how it works

Mafia PR's = 0
Town PR's = 2

Mafia PR's = 1
Town PR's = 3

Mafia PR's = 2
Town PR's = 4

Mafia PR's = 3
Town PR's = 5

[JasonWazza]

He would have outted his actions already had he done something, it is a scum claim LYNCH IT

[JasonWazza]

Well, that didn't really work as I had hoped.

I knew by her softclaims that SoM was either going to try to claim tracker or cop. I figured by putting her on the spot, she'd have a 50/50 shot of choosing right. Either she really is the tracker or she just fakeclaimed the right one -

because I'm the goon cop

. It's another reason (combined with those in 589) why I find her early softclaim without any pressure or reason so odd - because I had the exact opposite approach with a similar role.

@SoM - I know I didn't ask any questions in it but I'd like to hear what you think on my post 589 - your reasoning, maybe? As well as your night actions.
I think there's only one thing that can be said that's going to change my thoughts on her being scum but I don't want to hand it to her on a platter so I'm waiting for the above answers - and why my vote is staying where it is. That, and because I really just don't have anything else to go on - which is essentially why my night actions were as follows.

Night 1: Mutley
Night 2: Jason

Just something to throw out there.

It's possible for the Goon Cop to investigate everyone and never get a positive.

So my thought is this, Roleblocker, Goon Cop, and IC is the PR's.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah but you can pick 3 powers but still keep the goon cop useless, and recruit traitor isn't necessarily a good power.

You can also make the vigilante and the tracker and the roleblocker/bodyguard useless in certain ways given what you pick.

(My) Optimal picks:
Change a goon to bulletproof
Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Enable Day talk for the mafia team

Bulletproof, makes Vig worthless against 1/3 of the scum team.
JoAT makes tracker/bodyguard/roleblocker useless in some situations.
Goon cop is worthless as there is no goon.
Day talk is just for lols.

But yes, Elle your PR COULD be totally worthless, and given we have a flipped goon, a claimed roleblocker, IC and Goon cop, it is likely at this point you are useless.

[JasonWazza]

You basically have a small chance of being useful (assuming the scum only picked to have a traitor turn into a goon your useful.)

[JasonWazza]

And due to the possibility's in the game, Fuzzy could have been the only goon that existed (adding to the above).

[JasonWazza]

Wait a second, i just realized it was a body guard that died at night, give me a minute.

[JasonWazza]

Claims(/obvious PR's);
Innocent Child
Body Guard
Goon Cop
Roleblocker
Tracker

So if anyone has a PR to claim, they may as well claim it, at least then we can know for certain that one has to be a fake claim.

Mafia PR possiblitys:
Change a goon to bulletproof
Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Change a goon to role cop
Recruit the traitor as a mafia goon
Enable Day talk for the mafia team

Fuzzy was a goon, so knowing this either the traitor was recruited OR we have a lying "PR".

With 3 selections from this set, the goon cop is likely useless, as the only area where it is useful is if the Mafia picked day talk AND recruit the traitor (in which case there is one goon left living and a PR)

Given i think SoM is lying, that lowers the likelihood of Mafia selected PR's down to 2 (MASS CLAIM SHOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY.) given this, all our PR's would be real.

Hmmm goon cop could still be very useful.

[JasonWazza]

Also i am VT.

Everyone that hasn't already, claim in your next post, we've already had (including the obvious) 5 PR's come to light, so an extra claim means someone in this group has to be lying.

[JasonWazza]

Maestro get your conf-town ass in here and make everyone claim.

[JasonWazza]

Also i am VT.

Everyone that hasn't already, claim in your next post, we've already had (including the obvious) 5 PR's come to light, so an extra claim means someone in this group has to be lying.

Damn

I tracked you N1, Sakura N2

You went nowhere, I didn't get a result from Sakura

I claimed, then asked for a mass claim hoping that you were mafia and that you would claim a PR

Bullshit, if that was the case you wouldn't have said you had any result on me, and hoped it prompted a mass claim without it.

[JasonWazza]

If I was mara, I would have slipped by now wouldn't have I?

and it was a pun maestro...

though, yes I did claim to track Jason right after he claimed VT. I was hoping he would claim PR though, he didn't

When I flip town, lynch the ever living hell out of Jason

Lol no.

VOTE: Soundsofmusic

@Maestro; I assumed it based on the assumption all PR's were real to start with, later in it i started on the PR's being bogus and a liar.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah but the flipped tracker had no proof i was scum, your blindly sheeping a dumb townie in essence.

[JasonWazza]

How does him not being Vanilla make me scum?

[JasonWazza]

Can someone go back and find where he actually said he tracked me, BECAUSE YOU'LL FIND YOUR WRONG YOU FUCKING DIPSHITS.

[JasonWazza]

With that said, I'm still willing to lynch the birthday boy - just not on misrep. Finding out about my goon results put him and Mutley back up on the scumlist because of the feel I had on them after D1. I'm leaning more toward Jason because, of the people still alive, him and Saki were the only ones not on the scumfuzzy wagon. No, it's really not much to go on but nobody's posting much of anything besides naked votes so

VOTE: Jason

This is L-1!

HAVE HALF A FUCKING BRAIN PLEASE.

I'm not a goon, and got tracked no where, there is like no chance i am scum.

MOSTLY CAUSE I'M NOT YOU FUCKING RETARDED PEOPLE

[JasonWazza]

I'm not goon, and confirmed going no where, meaning i'd HAVE to be a mafia PR.

Therefore the only things i can be are the following;
Change a goon to bulletproof

Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Change a goon to role cop

Were i a role cop i'd be visiting, were i the JoAT i would have been killing, and i would have killed on N1 so it's stupid to even assume there is a scum JoAT.

So now your assuming i'm a bulletproof, so your also assuming i am worried that a fucking Vig will actually shoot me, why the fuck would that be the case?

Now we still have 5 PR's in play, so assuming this, you also assume that;
a) i've chosen to go against what i clearly labeled best play in the game (because it's not logical to assume a goon given how i publicly advertised i would play this.)
b) That the team choose Traitor recruit AND day talk, along with a bulletproof.

@Mod: would a recruited traitor flip as a plain goon or would they have a different flip?

Oh might i also add, that if i am scum, i choose to bus the fuck out of Fuzzy instead of pushing what there was of people defending him?

[JasonWazza]

So only ways i can not be a goon increases (Hence me asking Maestro you jackass)

I could be a traitor, that conveniently makes a lot of sense EXCEPT that the PR count is wrong for me to be a traitor and Fuzzy having been a goon.

YOU GUYS HAVE RESULTS ON ME THAT COME MOST OF THE WAY TO CLEARING ME.

I'm not goon, and confirmed going no where, meaning i'd HAVE to be a mafia PR.

Therefore the only things i can be are the following;
Change a goon to bulletproof

Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Change a goon to role cop

Were i a role cop i'd be visiting, were i the JoAT i would have been killing, and i would have killed on N1 so it's stupid to even assume there is a scum JoAT.

So now your assuming i'm a bulletproof,

Way to repeat everything I said in 715:

Correct. You are not a goon. Correct. You got tracked and went nowhere on N1. No chance that you are scum? Incorrect.

The above leaves the possibility of bulletproof, which was one of your own 'optimal picks' in post 647. That's not

no chance

.

But yes, you were saying there was no chance of you being scum. I show how you could be scum and how a

chance

is not

no chance

like you're trying to make us believe.

So now your assuming i'm a bulletproof, so your also assuming i am worried that a fucking Vig will actually shoot me, why the fuck would that be the case?

Hello, misrep. You're the one that said that bulletproof would have been one of your optimal picks. Right here:

(My) Optimal picks:
Change a goon to bulletproof

Bulletproof, makes Vig worthless against 1/3 of the scum team.

It's not like you get to pick what PR's we get - it's random. So you saying that bulletproof is one of your optimal picks would suggest that you'd pick it in case we got a vig - YOUR words, not mine.

Now we still have 5 PR's in play, so assuming this, you also assume that;
a) i've chosen to go against what i clearly labeled best play in the game (because it's not logical to assume a goon given how i publicly advertised i would play this.)

Where did you publicly advertise you'd have chosen goon - when in your own 'optimal picks' there is NO goon in the setup YOU said you would have picked.

b) That the team choose Traitor recruit AND day talk, along with a bulletproof.

And

again

, you're assuming that I'm assuming that when I've already said what I thought the possibilities could be:

The possibilities for what they chose are:

Recruit, daytalk, PR
Recruit, PR, PR

So how about you stop trying to misrep what I'm saying.
If I was tentative on whether or not you were scum before, I'm not now. So thanks.

You want to use my optimal picks?

THEN WHY THE FUCK DID A GOON FLIP?

If you argue that my picks were used, HOW CAN YOU ARGUE THIS WITH A MOTHER FUCKING GOON FLIP?

My optimal picks only work as a whole, you either go all 3 or don't.