Open 556: Fire and Ice (Over)

[Baezu]

Didn't realize this game had started.

It'll be interesting playing with y'all having just modded most if you so bring it on!

Tricks hasn't tried to pull a gambit yet therefore he must be scum

VOTE: tr1ckster

[Baezu]

Tricks is a playing a very similar game to the game he played when he was town. So yeah.

I disagree. He seems way more confident and town-leader in this game than he was in the game I modded. I don't think learning can be applied that quickly so I'm tending to lean scum on him. Which game are you referring to, RM?

[Baezu]

This actually helps prove my point. What happened to your RQS? If you're town you wouldn't mind garnering that attention but as scum, you prob want to maintain a lower profile

[Baezu]

Also not liking RM for town. He seems to be buddying too much already.

[Baezu]

Wow! Lots of activity since I was last on. I'll try to catch up today

[Baezu]

I'm with Bez here, Tricky is trying far too hard. The 'town shouldn't worry about whether they are going after fire/ice' is such an easy reason to go after someone, especially when it probably didn't mean anything. It's going after daft things, and making them bigger than they are so you look like you are contributing. What Moony did in the last game.

I think it's worked pretty well so far. There's been plenty of discussion, and I think Moon and Trickster are looking pretty town. If you think we should be discussing something else, please provide a topic.

because he's trying to buddy you. started at 14 and has continued.

Active town players tend to agree with each other. Until day 3 or so when they start ripping each other's heads off.

also, early read list. always a bad sign.

Please justify this assertion.

Hello there, Pasche.

;3

Oh this'll be fun. ^_^ Also, my first hydra!

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

You'd think that trying to get things going would be a good thing.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

What do you think of him without the influence of past games?

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

Agreed on both counts.

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

I really don't like over-reliance on meta. It assumes that people have far more concrete tells than they really do. Plus it's difficult to check, and leads to "trust me" moments. I do not trust so easily.

Scum is either dumb and on Tr1ckster wagon or smart and off of it. All smart players on Tr1ckster wagon we consider town for the moment, all dumb players on Tr1ckster wagon give us a scumread.

There are two votes on Trickster and they're both pretty dumb. Why is Baezu a better vote than Boro?

Actually, I don't like the amount of dependence on past play present in the game at the moment. From pretty much all directions. It's a new game. People can change drastically from game to game. A lot of these comments about meta have been made off of a single game. Do you know how inaccurate your results are likely to be if you base your conclusions off of a sample size of one? It's as if the moderators picked a game at random from a type of setup and based their analysis of that setup off of that single game. If they picked the one game with a perfect town win they might decide that setup was horribly imbalanced and decide to never run it again. That setup could be perfectly balanced, there were just horrible scum or excellent town in that one specific game.

In statistics an analysis is not admittable unless you have at least 10. 10. 1 is far from enough. Please stop basing your reads off of a single game.

QFT

I'll discuss signatures for our posts when Mastin gets back. Until Monday, all posts are by Pasch.

I think we should be discussing "Is Tricky scum"

I agree

[Baezu]

Time for me to share my early reads. In the order they have posted:

NM puzzles me. He cast a random vote on mastin and ignored his wagon for a while, until he didn't. His vote on me is a lot like Boro's on Tricks, scumreading someone for trying too hard to get things going.

Zeph hasn't caught up, so no read.

Tricks gives me the same feeling he gave me in our first game. I have seen him play scum, but never early, only after replacing in. So far this seems very much like his Town play.

Boro seems to consider reachy cases a scumtell and that's something I don't agree with, but that tells me nothing about his alignment.

tman's posts rub me the wrong way. His vote on NM seemed to be random, so he didn't really make anything of the pregame posts. After noticing the wagon, he showed apathy, which I can't say I appreciate.

midget is... strange. I've only played one game with him and it was our first, so his playstyle might have developed, but he seems much bolder and confident than I remember. Not sure what that means, but it's noteworthy.

Jasmine doesn't like wagons and I want to know why before I decide what to make of her.

Pasch's posts appeal to me, and even though I disagree with his viewpoint on reachy cases I can understand it. His defense of NM makes me townread him, because I don't see any scum motivation for him to disapprove of the wagon... unless those two are scum together. =P

Baezu seems to rely on meta and to dislike buddying, which I don't know what to make of.

4 Heads is going to be a headache (ba dum tsh!). I hate when the heads disagree like that.

To sum up: townread on Tricks and Pasch, scumread on tman, null on everyone else but I'm paying NM, midget and Jasmine extra attention.

I don't like the way you keep defending tricks. You guys seem to have some unwritten communication going on that's setting off alarm bells. Either you're mafia together or one of you is "tricking" the other and you know my opinion on which of you it is

This was me. Sorry :/

[Baezu]

Or they're undermining us and they're actually in the same scum team. Just a theory though

Ok. Good to know. Thanks

[Baezu]

I'm willing to let the trick thing rest for now but IGMEOY still

UNVOTE: tr1ckster

[Baezu]

Just as a note, I finding it harder to find scumreads in this game so far.

This is pinging hard.

I'm willing to let the trick thing rest for now but IGMEOY still

What trick thing? O_o

I'm willing to get off of your case for now :p

[Baezu]

I honestly don't see N_M as mafia because of the early interaction atm. Fin has not done anything I think is scummy. Tman would be the scummiest of the three that have been talked most about but I think scum is still hiding atm. Ima try to look for scum in the people who have not been at the forefront bc that's where I think they are atm

[Baezu]

And Trickster that doesn't change the fact that you misrepped his case

Exactly! Finally, someone is seeing the light.

Also four heads is acting scummy as fuck and veiling it as a 4 person hydra

[Baezu]

THIS IS

NOT

TOWN TR1CKSTER

I don't care what anyone says

VOTE: Tr1ckster

I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day

[Baezu]

Moon if I was trickster and I have played games with you where we were buddies as townies and I rolled scum this game I would continue playing the same way with you so that you wouldn't suspect anything. Doesn't this seem super plausible and likely?

[Baezu]

Yup. Everyone jump on my wagon. I'm the easy lynch. You won't look scummy at all for pushing the easy lynch.

[Baezu]

Yes! I read your game that you referenced me to where you and moon were VTs. You started that game with an RQS as well. And say what you will, PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. At least not so quickly. I've lived on this planet for 36 years and there's one thing I've learned people just don't change that quickly.

[Baezu]

I went back over everyone's ISOs from the very beginning and found some interesting things. This is my current reads list. Some opinions have changed but that's because I deconstructed the game anew and these are my most current thoughts.

4heads- what was your point in 233 of calling out a possible role claim by tr1ckster? I'm leaning town on them

Boro- first line out you said you hoped moon was scum. Why? I think you're hyper focusing too much and seem too agreeable with a lot of things. Leaning scum

Moon- I didn't really like your reads list bc it didn't give too much new info but your posting feels town.

NM- came in silly which is not alignment indicative but followed up with a know-it-all style. Does anyone know if this is his playstyle? Leaning scum but on a different team than boro

RM- also over focused. Hasn't posted much content. Best guess is scum with boro

Ascended- didn't like pasch's opening post- almost like he was already giving an excuse as to why they were planning on being scummy. Since then though, posting has been decent. Null

Tman- posts are scummy but he just seems like classic mislynch material. Such easy picking for scum. I've been in his position before so I am very familiar with what's going on. Town

Trick- not lynching him regardless of alignment. I know, I said I wouldn't move my vote off of him but after the reread I feel that the fact that he's contributing is more valuable atm regardless of his actual alignment. If he's scum, the other scum team can choose to off him.

Zeph- looking to please.

*interesting note*

also commented on moonlight on his first post. Perhaps this was a strategy that was talked about in the scum QT. I think he's on the other scum team with NM.

Finglove, Yuriko, and idk I need more content from but I'm leaning town on idk for now

;tl/dr

Scum teams: boro and RM vs zeph and NM, everyone else town. Notice how boro and zeph both had the same opening post. What do other people think that means?

I'm willing to vote any of those four today.

UNVOTE: in case I didn't already

[Baezu]

"Notice how boro and zeph both had the same opening post. What do other people think that means? "

we probably are on the same team then. scum partners generally make the same opening post so everyone spots them easily.

"and seem too agreeable with a lot of things"

what does this actually mean?

You were quite supportive of what I was saying earlier Bez. now I've picked up a couple of votes, you've seen the way the wind is blowing and fancy hopping on?

added to your rather panicked post earlier about being the easy wagon, you've shot quite high up my ScumPile

I'm saying you're NOT on the same team for that very reason. Perhaps it's zeph trying to form an associative tell with town boro. The fact that he commented second makes it more about him and less about you but I have other reads on you that I feel make you scummy as well.

Btw changing your reads is not alignment indicative and anyone who tries to jump on that is scum imo

[Baezu]

Interesting reads, Baezu. That's good. I think I agree with a good bit of that.

Wanna vote for one of them?

Yes

VOTE: zephyrus

[Baezu]

I still want Baezu to explain why Boro and NM aren't scum together, Boro and Zeph I can understand. Also, if you're fine voting the 4 you mentioned, why did you avoid the midget wagon?

I guess they could be. I just don't feel like they'd make an effective team if you take their ISOs together. Usually scum have some sort if balancing strategy, like one person wagons and another elaborates and I don't see that happening with those two.

I voted zeph bc I feel he has the most to answer for of the four.

[Baezu]

Have we gotten a VC yet? If not, is there someone who can provide a rough one? I'm on my phone and at work all day and I'd like to see who's where.

Zeph's posting do sort of look like moonlights in the game I modded where he gave up. It sucks to be caught as scum and easy to just buckle over. I know those signs. I've felt the same way before. It's as if the game is no longer fun and you're just waiting to die. Sorry, Zeph. You're a good player - you just got caught.

[Baezu]

This whole game is based on feelings. None of us know who is scum and who is town, Mastin.

Also don't like tricksters sudden jump on ascended

[Baezu]

Page by page reads show greater willingness to be transparent and can assist town in reminding them of stuff they may have forgotten, which is especcially helpful in a game as fast paced as this.

I wholeheartedly agree

[Baezu]

Ok. We'll keep an eye on her tricks.

[Baezu]

Finglove declared V/LA. Yuriko does need prodding though, also,

prod the mod.

^^hee hee

[Baezu]

Re ascended read of me: Normally I'm a little wary of someone agreeing with me or siding with my posts. Especially when I'm town. This is prob the first time ever that anyone has called my town game for what it is. Normally I would say this is buddying but it feels really genuine. If ascended is indeed town then we've got a very strong town with them and moonlight and that would make me happy

[Baezu]

Eh. I don't like meta. I don't like playing to my meta...

Maybe I haven't pushed people's buttons...

I guess I haven't found my spot in this game yet. It's infuriating because everyone's fighting and won't shut up and listen to what the other people are saying. I know I've been a part of the problem, but seriously. I'm almost certain there's scum in the chaos - and I'm leaning strong towards Boro for that one... But maybe because I don't understand his reasoning. I just kinda wish people would stop being pissed at each other and talk it out. There are too many teams here. Too many connections. It's annoying to try and figure them all out. It's like we've all formed little gangs and decided to have gang wars with each other even though most of us are on the same team. >.< I can't focus or tunnel one player because someone else starts answering the questions I ask that player or defending them, or I get sidetracked by someone attacking me and calling me scum... I can't get into my little tunnel and it's frustrating me, because right as soon as I've got my sights focused I get hit in the side or someone else takes the shot for the player I'm trying to get stuff out of. Usually I thrive in chaos, but this is ridiculous. I have no idea what this is. Ah well. You probably can't follow what I just wrote, so the fact that I lowered myself to AtE doesn't matter anyways. Sometimes I wish I had more emotions/feelings so I could relate to people and show them my passion and make people want to work together and stuff... Anyways, sorry for getting all emotional. Maybe I'm just exhausted and I'm imagining all the infighting. >.<

/end rant.

This AtE is not coming from town tricky. This game just feels so different. I'm with you moon, I'd live tricky to be town but he's not.

VOTE: Tr1ckster

We can get zeph tomorrow

[Baezu]

I think zeph and tricky are both scum regardless if they are on the same team or not. They are WIFOMing the shit out of the thread and causing confusion which is anti town. I think our votes should be on one of these two guys today regardless because either of these flips will give us a lot of information since they have both been fairly active.

Moon, you're not useless this game. Don't give up. You give a lot of info and whether you're scum or not, info helps town.

[Baezu]

I've been on tricky almost the entire game and I believe I started the wagon on zeph so how exactly would I know that there would be support for those people when I made those votes?

Fuck. I apologize.

[Baezu]

^^i concur

[Baezu]

Still here. Never got a message that this game was back up. Will catch up ASAP

[Baezu]

Regarding moonlights wall: as I was reading it I had this thought- I wonder if the scum QT was open during the hiatus or not. Because if it was open that would have allowed scum to get super synched about everything. Not that I think moon is scum but it's possible that scum could also show that kind of level of commitment. I assume the QT was closed bc it was technically still day but it may not necessarily be so

[Baezu]

Moonlight, thanks again for that post. I believe the scums are tricks, zeph, midget and jasmine. Willing to vote any of those today. No rush though, let's get the most out if the rest of the time we have.

[Baezu]

How much time is left in the day?

[Baezu]

My reads list is (from towniest to scummiest):

The ascended
Moonlight
Borophil
NotMafia
Fin glove
4heads
Tman
Idk
Jasmine
Midget
Zeph
Tricks

[Baezu]

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but why are so many townreading Boro so strongly? He's not strongly scummy, but I see him as pretty null. He's engaging with the group and talking, but I don't see much insight from that corner. He makes comments on stuff a lot, and attacks bad arguments (I like this quite a bit), but isn't really fighting

for

very much. This could just be a playstyle issue and that's fine. I'm not saying he's scum or suggesting that anyone vote for him, I just want to know why he's being so strongly townread.

I feel it mostly based on his interactions especially with trickster. But I guess he could be on the other scum team...

[Baezu]

Why is your vote not on Baezu then? Why were you waiting until now to bring that post back to attention?

Your "case" is so weak and you're not even bothering to analyze Baezu's posts after that point.

I wish we could lynch both you and Tricks at the same time.

Meanwhile, you should be considering me for a NK, because I won't rest until you're lynched with how you've been playing. And keep in mind that both teams might shoot me, resulting in me staying alive instead.

Good luck WIFOMing yourselves, scumfucks.

Lmfao! Oh moonlight, you're awesome!

[Baezu]

If NM and Moon feel we can't get anymore out of this day (cuz of lack of activity and whatnot) we could just end it early. I'm kind of feeling like it's stalled and we need a flip to get it going again

[Baezu]

If I get nked my most current reads list reflects who I think should be next to be lynched

[Baezu]

Hmmm. Why would they keep you alive moon? You're essentially conftown and that's a great nk for scum. The fact that you're still alive combined with the fact that you pointed it out in that first line throws up a red flag for me all over the place. Why do you think they kept you alive? Also, what's with the rapid vote out of the gate? Man that whole post reeks to me. It seems like it's coming from over cocky scum that thinks he can't get caught... :/

VOTE: moonlight

[Baezu]

Moon if you are somehow scum this game I'll never forgive myself

VOTE: zephyrus

[Baezu]

Still super busy administering and grading finals but definitely waiting to hear back from zephs replacement. Since we have to lynch scum today, I'd suggest zeph over me bc I know that I am town. Other than that, who is most likely to flip scum? Let's lynch that so that town doesn't lose today. Scum will soon be running out of nightkill options. If they don't nk me tonight then they will have to nk mafia from a different faction probabilistically. Either way this is good for town: my flip will take a wild card out of the equation which helps town and a scum kill will help town by eliminating scum. The only thing I ask is allow me to live one more day. If I'm still alive tomorrow you can lynch me then bc either the game will be over or we would have killed scum. And either way we'd have more info

[Baezu]

Actually my reread turned up some interesting things. My reads are different than they were given the info from the flips.

4 heads- had light hearted attitude, confusing as heck posts but I really like how they called me out on my bullshit case early on. It wasn't in a scummy way. Town
Borophil- I don't like how he buddied me in the beginning. He supported me in my baseless case which is suspect. However, he has a light hearted attitude as well so I have a gut town on him.
Finglove- comes across as scummy. Agrees with town too much. Scum
Idk- tunneled on boro in the beginning with no real reason. In post 584 he talked to finglove about halfway thru post. Based on fingloves flip this found come from scum on the same team or scum on different teams. His recent post seems town but guess what happens again? Tunnel on Borophil!?
Moon- think he's been town from start of game which is why his first post of the day disturbs me so much.
Mrglidder- if moon is scum, glidder is his partner. Seems really scummy esp if rm is town
NS: really? First Yuriko then you? Two people who just don't fucking post?! Can we just policy lynch this one? :/
Random: on a reread he seems really town. He votes and makes cases for non wagons which doesn't behoove town. Also points out that my early case was baseless.
Zeph: doesn't seem so scummy on reread

;tl/dr

town: 4 heads, Borophil, random midget, zeph
Dunno: idk, moon (one of these is scum for sure)
Which leaves by Poe: glidder, NS, finglove

VOTE: finglove

[Baezu]

So be it

[Baezu]

Omg my daughter has a bear just like that!!!

[Baezu]

I wonder which scum team will win the game cuz it sure as shit won't be town. Last reads: finglove, moonlight def scum. Plz lynch moonlight to avenge me. I will not self hammer bc that is against my win condition. I'm VT for those who are wondering. After this lynch we will be down to 5 town 4 scum so unless scum teams shoot each other the most town in the game tomorrow will be 4. Do me a favor and reread the entire thread town. Don't be lazy. It'll be incredibly difficult for us to pull this one off but miracles have happened before. Moonlight is not your friend. Town blocks are very rarely suggested by town. He is our most dangerous player. If he is alive tomorrow HE IS CONF SCUM. Ta ta for now and go town!!!

[Baezu]

Who will hammer?

Bring it on!

[Baezu]

[Baezu]

Gg scum! You deserve to win

[Baezu]

Yay! I MUST be scum cuz everyone is sure

[Baezu]

I already said: moonlight/finglove/NS/?

Look at my last reads list and re examine everything

[Baezu]

Btw moon, if there are 2 nks and you live, where does that leave town? Cuz doc obv didn't save you

[Baezu]

YOU ARE BEING MISLED

Open your eyes, boro. I don't think reino is bad I think scum has momentum

[Baezu]

Jesus this happens to me every game. One of y'all please tell me post game how to improve my town game cuz I'm honestly at a loss at this point.

Sorry about the quad post...

[Baezu]

There are 4 scum out there. If 2 more town die tonight then scum will outnumber town

[Baezu]

We can still do this, team, we just have to rally.

[Baezu]

Well all the VIs should be out of the game at this point so make something of yourselves town

[Baezu]

Jesus this happens to me every game. One of y'all please tell me post game how to improve my town game cuz I'm honestly at a loss at this point.

Sorry about the quad post...

When I have time I'll go into detailed explaination for each post I found scummy.

Ty

[Baezu]

^^lmao!!! Read my last reads list and you'll get the reasons

[Baezu]

Ty moonlight. I truly respect your knowledge and play <3

[Baezu]

^i do however agree with this

[Baezu]

I respect your play outside and including the realm of this game regardless of alignment