Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[Cane + Able]

Confirmed.

[Cane + Able]

Hydras should signify who's talking out of policy

That being the case, assume unsigned posts belong to me, because my memory is shit.

-House

[Cane + Able]

copper223 dies D1 for having a gun unless town wants to buy his gunsmith fake claim that he'll out at L-1.

[Cane + Able]

copper223 dies D1 for having a gun unless town wants to buy his gunsmith fake claim that he'll out at L-1.

-House

[Cane + Able]

copper223 dies D1 for having a gun unless town wants to buy his gunsmith fake claim that he'll out at L-1.

-House

Shame on you if you don't believe my claim, I'm clearly GS and gunned myself!

I'm so totally investigating you with my bulletproof rolecop role to verify your gs claim.

Bad news for you is, I'm also a day vig so expect immediate justice.

[Cane + Able]

My signature is true.

[Cane + Able]

FoS Ane for campaigning to join the town bloc.

[Cane + Able]

But seriously, this shit disbands day two.

Yep, I'm kicking everybody out but Wake, for reasons obvious.

[Cane + Able]

I am here.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Plus Newbie and Wake are awesome people and I joined the game to play with them.
I'm also confident I can read both of them if need be, so it works to my advantage.

I'd like to know who this is, please.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Voting blocs: Nay.
Buddying: Nay.
Doritos: Yay.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

I do not trust Pastro.

You have got to wonder what he puts in his pastries.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

In random news, RVS should be over in record time one the game begins.

[Cane + Able]

Oh right, and terribad typos are probably posts from me, because phone posting.

-House

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Constantine

Because forming townbloc..

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Constantine

Because forming townbloc..

-House

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Constantine
Because he's Constantine

RVS is over.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Constantine
Because he's Constantine

RVS is over.

Man, already missed RVS
If so, then I guess I'll just
UNVOTE:
Interesting how Constantine gives two separate reasons for joining the game in 34 an 36. Not saying they both can't be true, but this switch is weird.

Wake is half of Cane + Able, so he really didn't.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Wow, completely missed that you were a hydra...

Interesting town slip.

Question is whether it was intentional.

[Cane + Able]

Sorry, I'm confused. How is that post a townslip at all? (Apologies if I'm asking dumb questions-I'm not exactly a mafia veteran)

Scum tends to pay attention to pre/early game happenings for scheming and reputation building purposes.

Town doesn't have much to do pre-game and may miss out on details.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Constantine
Because he's Constantine

RVS is over.

Man, already missed RVS
If so, then I guess I'll just
UNVOTE:
Interesting how Constantine gives two separate reasons for joining the game in 34 an 36. Not saying they both can't be true, but this switch is weird.

Why did you unvote directly before providing a reason to be suspicious of Constantine? Your 'random' vote wasn't exactly a bad one.

His reason for suspicion was unfounded.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Note to self: BMWS and C+A are not scum together.

A bit early for associative tells.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Sorry, I'm confused. How is that post a townslip at all? (Apologies if I'm asking dumb questions-I'm not exactly a mafia veteran)

If you knew how your post was a townslip, then by definition it wouldn't be a townslip.

-House

[Cane + Able]

But not too early for townslips?

Never too early for townslip because those are often done in a single derp post.

Associative tells develop over time. Everyone will be interacting in interesting ways until we feel each other out.

[Cane + Able]

But not too early for townslips?

The idea is just that if y'all were scum together, BMWS probably would've known the hydra stuff. I honestly don't think that was a townslip though, I could see him doing that as scum with you as town.

Or you could, you know, play smart and hunt for town instead of scum, then vote off scum via PoE.

Aside from blatantly terrible scummy moves, I'm more interested in finding town than scum because scum will become clear soon enough.

BMWS isn't being lynched today, and quite likely not tomorrow unless he derps pretty hard.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Trying to force associative tells ON PAGE ONE (which this pretty much is as the game just started) isn't giving me very good vibes.

[Cane + Able]

How bout you not talk about ongoing games, Constantine?

Not exactly ready for you to start clogging up the thread, mate.

@C+A: The issue is that 'townslip' doesn't discount the fact that he unvoted Constantine and then cast suspicion on him.

Well let's look at that, shall we?

He random voted.
He was told random voting was over.
He unvoted, removing his RANDOM vote, and three out a derp post that want worth a vote on its own merits even if he was right.

Reachy, Math. Real reachy.

[Cane + Able]

I'm actually policy lynching mathdino because he annoys the living shit out of me and others
VOTE: Mathdino
I'm going to request that he stops talking to me. Please, just shut up. Shut. The. Hell. Up.

#Thankscum

PL & AtE isn't influencing me to remove my vote.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Why would you want a short day phase which deprives town of information?

The odds of town lynching scum day one are already slightly below average, why would you want to rush the process and make those odds even worse?

-House

[Cane + Able]

RVS can't be over yet.

VOTE: Copper because he's wearing a funny hat.

Trying to restart RVS is keeping you out of my town pile.

We are trying to scum hunt and there is plenty of content to stay with.

[Cane + Able]

Stay = start

[Cane + Able]

My town pile is anemic.

BMWS is dying of loneliness over here.

-House

[Cane + Able]

PL & AtE isn't influencing me to remove my vote

I legit want him dead. Policy lynch is the only way brother.
I'm not really concerned about 1 vote out of 7 required on me, so

don't flatter yourself

.

So you want him dead regardless of alignment?

You know PLs are anti-town, right? Unless you have a valid reason to vote for someone, please don't.

Well, unless you are scum, of course. In which case, keep on truckin'.

-House

[Cane + Able]

That's because Constantine's meta is anti-town.

His playstyle. Is actually to try to screw over town.

I'd policy him if

there weren't actual suspects

. Which Constantine is willfully ignoring.

Your idea of a suspect (asking to /in for a townbloc) is his idea of an ally (the townbloc was his idea and he fished another member for it).

He's not ignoring your suspect, he obviously simply disagrees with you.

If such terribad pay is his playstyle and you know it, why do you toss fuel on the fire? Drama and chaos inhibits hunting.

[Cane + Able]

Come to think of it, I am convinced by your soft defense of Constantine, Math.

UNVOTE:

However, you have landed squarely in my cross hairs in the process.

Manipulating a player's playstyle to fuel drama and trying to fabricate associative tells on the first page of the first day is pretty blatant scum play.

VOTE: Mathdino

[Cane + Able]

Quote the post where you think I tried to get a rise out of him.

How bout you not talk about ongoing games, Constantine?

Not exactly ready for you to start clogging up the thread, mate.

Ground zero. This is where you two started into unnecessary drama.

Discussion of ongoing games is not game content. It should be taken directly to the game or list mods. Then such an inflammatory accusation was followed by ad hominem.

You never did respond to my quesiton about the associatives. Where do you think my logic was off?

The sheer fact it was made 12 posts into the first day, nevermind the fact it is (obviously) pre-flip.

[Cane + Able]

For the record, I'm not letting this become another mathdino dominated game. He didn't exactly lead town to scum in the last few games he was in, and I'm not ready for the mindless scum to start latching on to him.

#73 would like to have a word with you. Do you find this necessary? My 74 was an irritated response to the above.

Okay so here's what I'm not getting. Why do you find it okay to say "[X] is town" but not "[X] and [Y] are not scum together"? Because we used the exact same piece of evidence to arrive at our conclusions; I just don't we have enough to call BMWS definitively town this early.

Explain how this is scummy, or at least explain the scum motivation. The fact that you've yet to come up with a reason my logic is faulty makes me think you don't disagree with it.

73 is irrelevant!

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods

to avoid this very scenario

.

The fact you don't understand why you can't determine association pre-flip makes me think you don't understand associative tells, which supports my read.

[Cane + Able]

Your "tell" (lol) has an objective 75% chance of being right.

Oh, I'm making your point... right? Wrong. You could make the same statement regarding any two players and have the same 75% accuracy.

That's before even reading the two players involved. Read either one of them as town, and you are looking at a 90-95% accuracy rating.

So "associative tell that you aren't scum together" is a say nothing statement designed to look like scum hunting.

[Cane + Able]

So was my pre-flip association (you and BMWS are either town/town or town/scum) bad because:
1. It's dangerous (this is the usual reason pre-flip associatives are bad), or
2. It's fluff and a useless statement?

If 1, well, show me how. If 2, well, I've been scumhunting besides that one statement and participating in non-Constantine discussion. So I don't see what your issue is.

It's worse than fluff. It's fake scum hunting. I've already spelled out how.

There is zero town motivation to fake scum hunt.

Ergo, scum.

[Cane + Able]

Okay. So firstly, I never used the word 'tell'. You did.

Second of all, you aren't listening to my logic. You assert that because BMWS didn't know who was in your hydra, he is town. I assert that because BMWS didn't know who was in your hydra, he cannot be scum with you. I find this to be a far more accurate statement than if I made it about any two players.

Does your statement that he's town not also have a 75% accuracy rate? Fact is, I don't fully agree with that. But what I can say is that I have a null-scum read on BMWS and a null-town read on you, and I've also provided other info on BMWS besides "this guy made a townslip", so yeah, I have been scumhunting, and yeah, I'm pretty sure my statement is correct.

You've yet to point out the flaw in my argument. Mostly because it's

the exact same argument you used

to prove he's town. I just arrived at a less confident conclusion.

Are you new to the game?

"Player x is town" = 50% objective chance of being right. Player x is either town or not. Then subjective reasoning affects that 50%.

"Players x & y are not scum together" = 75% objective chance of being right.

Player x town, player y town = right
Player x town, player y scum = right
Player x scum, player y town = right
Player x scum, player y scum = wrong

3 out of 4 possibilities = 75% objective accuracy.

Then read one player as town, and the odds increase from there.

TL;DR> Your conclusion should have been solid.

[Cane + Able]

Player x is scum is 50% objectively accurate regardless I'd it is 2 players or 2 million (hint, learn what objectively means). Adding factors outside of that statement changes the objective percentage to a subjective one.

I scum read you for saying absolutely nothing while looking like you were saying something. Typical scum tactic.

[Cane + Able]

Constantine, I'm not familiar with voting blocs, and from what I've heard they're not the good for Town (18). If you truly feel otherwise I'd have a more thorough explanation from you, with undertones of respect if you would. As for you, Mathdino, I'd also like to see more reasoning and evidence which would point to that tactic being 'extremely Scum-motivated,' please (32). At this juncture, 32, nothing has triggered my Scumdar. If you think something Scummy has occurred, and you feel I have missed it, please feel free to let me know personally. The argumentation between the Saint and the Rex is neutral at best.

You may not want to buddy me, either (36). The last two Scum I did bifurcate were guilty of buddying up to me. Buddying is typically seen as something Scum would do, and is consistently warned against throughout the forum and meta here. For saying this, you would give me just reason to Scumread you. I'll let it slide this time. Do not buddy players. You may defend them, but buddying has typically led to poor results for Town. We don't want that. I suggest you both calm down. Please.

Mathdino, you may be incorrect in 44. Even if you are confirmed Town, buddying is not acceptable from you to someone who isn't confirmed. The reason I say you may be incorrect is because that detail was not specified. A confirmed Town player may make the grievous mistake of buddying up and trusting someone who is, for example, a Godfather. Furthermore, someone once told me that we should strive to trust one another in these games in spite of the fact that Scum are here, because there are far more of us than them. Instead of arguing, let's work together to come to a better conclusion.

Please post more,

CultivationTheory

. You are unequivocally Null at this moment.

House

, I'm unsure how logical it is to vote someone for attempting to set up a vote bloc. Everyone, how exactly do we go about this along the lines of logic?

BMWS

, how much experience do you have in these games? (This includes offsite games with links)

Shared sympathies with Dino in (62). BMWS has me rather confused with his 65. He voted Constantine because he's Constantine, and then quickly unvoted a few posts later. I suppose his reasons make sense, I guess. As for Constantine's OMGUS in 70, it leaves me wroth. You did push buddying, which isn't good for Town, and now you're OMGUS'ing BMWS for his own dubious vote. If you are Town, I would suggest you calm down a bit and not persistently do anti-Town things that cause Town to latch onto your scent. I'm being kind and dispassionate when I'm telling you this, Constantine.

Cease discussing ongoing games

now

.

Should this persist, I will come for your neck with all the fury of a thousand eager wasps.

In general, I agree with House in 75, because it really is too early to be searching for associative tells. In my own fallible, personal opinion, I feel the very start of Day 2 is when you start piecing them together.

...

Alright Constantine here's how it's going to go.

I'm going to tell you how to survive this game.

You're going to stop endorsing the idea of buddying players. You're not going to talk about ongoing games ever again here unless A) you want to be modkilled or B) you want to be policy-lynched. Unlike in 77 you're going to own up to your mistakes and cease discussing ongoing games, among other things. We are not going to be policy-lynching anyone without extraordinarily-good reason in spite of anything contained in your 78. You will also—you must also—stop with your infantile grousing. We do not tell each other to shut the Hell up. If you want to live and die as a well-respected member of the Town you had better knock that off now. Mafia requires one to use emotional restraint. If you do not feel resilient enough to handle another player, either bow out, take a break, put that player on ignore, or deal with it. You also have the option of changing the way you treat players yourself. It's part of displaying common human decency and tact.

Mathdino, we cannot allow further argumentation. Please cease and desist, lest Scum use this discord and milk it for all it's worth. If you want the Town to win, we must work together to make this a reality. If you defy me on this then you will be partially responsible should the Scum win this game. As I said to Constantine, cease with the grousing and the arguing. Your 90 and 92 are helping no one. There will be order in this game.

I would appreciate more input from texcat, among others.

A summary of the conflict between House and Dino would be great, too (100-115). Constantine, I suggest you acknowledge your own actions before telling others to be nice and chill in 116.

Notreallygood

,

texcat

,

acryon

,

mathdino

, what do you think of Gravity's 126?

...

Reading down in real-time, I see Pastro was just banned. Alright then. Scratch that last question. I guess he really

was

putting suspicious things in his pastries. Do not ever mess with Staffs' food. They will find out, and be angry.

Texcat, I understand the game has only just begun. I'd like to work with you and get a better understanding of what you're seeing and feeling in this game. Does anyone ping on your Scumdar at the moment, if only slightly?

It's too early for Reads Lists at the moment. Will start pumping some out as the game progresses.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: BMWS
For being BMWS

Sigh, you don't vote people just for who they are. You're supposed to scumhunt and vote whoever you think is scum. What's the point of playing forum mafia if you're just going to vote for ludicrous reasons.

He was in RVS.

This was after it was established that we had already left RVS. But either way, it was clearly done by Constantine in some form of jest.

Key points and my thoughts:
-Town blocs - Terrible
-BMWS townslip - Agreed, but I wouldn't carry it for more than a day or two at most
-Mathdino's defense against the "townslip" - Disagree, but I understand where he's coming from and think we need to be sure that seeing the townslip != totally writing off the slot as town
-Cane + Able's Hard Defense of the Townslip - A little much. Holding onto this so tightly will cause long-term damage to town, so you can hold onto it, but with skepticism as always
-Policy lynches - Terrible
-Associative tell from Math re: BMWS & C+A - I actually agree, although again,

no one

should be holding onto these or other types of reads this early on for the entire game. I hope we don't have to even say this, but people are seeming to treat each other like their reads in the first few pages are etched in stone.

My defense of the town slip was for two days, as I previously stated.

And that's also a time frame that you appear to consider reasonable.

So... how are we in disagreement?

[Cane + Able]

Never played with any of you before, but here are what I'm thinking so far:

I didn't get anything from the Town Block stuff (I didn't even know what it was before this). All I got from it is that Constantine is probably bad Town, rather than scum for suggesting it.

Pastro actually looks the scummiest to me so far, looks like scum trying to find bad reasons to suspect people. Firstly he jumps on Constantine and BMW for their votes and puts suspicion on those posts, which I took in a clearly jokey nature and nothing to form a read on. Also, for his following of Mathdino with the exact same reasoning he used, and none of his own independent thoughts on anything else. In my opinion, this is nervous scum trying to find their way in to the thread, and following the most present player at this point.

VOTE: Pastro

Good read.

[Cane + Able]

p-edit: noticed the ban info, this makes it more likely he is aware of what RVS is, hence more likely he is mafia, voting on a player that isn't even there to reply though is not my style, I'll leave it on BMWS for now.

His ban actually makes him look really really scummy, because the way he was posting elsewhere on the site and the character it showed seems, to me, to line up perfectly with his posts being mafia this game. This sucks, because that's not how I like to win games, but I think it's actually really likely he is scum.

No. Outside actions are not alignment indicative.

-House (past three C&A posts)

[Cane + Able]

Generally not at all, but something tells me there is a higher chance a person with 10 posts on this site would show consistent character throughout those 10 than others with much more. It's hard to articulate exactly what I am trying to say regarding it, but if you look at his posts this game, and his character outside, it becomes pretty clear this is a person coming in who is bad at mafia. His posts this game are indicative of scum who is bad at mafia.

He might just be bad period, including bad town.

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

[Cane + Able]

acryon, I hate shit logic and will attack it at every turn.

More on this later.

-House

[Cane + Able]

acryon, I hate shit logic and will attack it at every turn.

More on this later.

-House

There is a difference between attacking bad logic (which I encourage and agree with), and trying to manipulate the town by trying to force it into your mold of play, and I think you're closer to the latter than the former.

An easy mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless. I was attacking Mathdino for using terribad logic.

Observe:

Playerlist + notreallygood = not scum together
Playerlist + Newbie = not scum together
Playerlist + Gravity = not scum together
Playerlist + CultivationTheory = not scum together
Playerlist + copper223 = not scum together
Playerlist + Cane & Able = not scum together
Playerlist + acryon = not scum together
Playerlist + Aneninen = not scum together
Playerlist + Mathdino = not scum together
Playerlist + blindmewithscience = not scum together
Playerlist + Pastro = not scum together
Playerlist + texcat = not scum together
Playerlist + St Constantine = not scum together

The same can be done with any other player in the game. All have the same objective 75% accuracy rating before you bother trying to get a read on a single player. And it doesn't even need the irrelevant excuse of being a first day associative "tell" to be true.

If you really want to buy into that kind of reasoning, I can look town as shit simply by reading everybody as not being town together with everybody. The odds are on my side and I'll look like a genius for getting most of the combinations right after the game ends!

As I said way back on page 1. Shit logic that reeks of fake scum hunting.

[Cane + Able]

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

And for that last post, I'll just point you to a post you should be plenty familiar with:

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods to avoid this very scenario.

I know you feel smart & all for thinking you got me being a hypocrite, but there's a difference between impropriety and rule breaking.

Sorry for taking the wind out of your sails, though.

[Cane + Able]

Here is a list of times already where C+B has tried (in some form) to tell everyone how they need to play the game. And there were more in the block near the end, but I got tired.

It's called communication. Specifically, it's called sharing your thought processes.

In the MafiaScum game I play, information sharing is beneficial to town.

I don't know what kind of MafiaScum game you play if you think it's bad to collaborate.

[Cane + Able]

[quote="In post 161, acryon]No. Why would that be inappropriate? Unless he mentioned elsewhere something about the game, which he certainly didn't.[/quote]

It's inappropriate because actions outside the game are irrelevant to the game. Unless he is directly addressing the happenings of the game, anything he says elsewhere means nothing about his alignment here.

Reading his activity outside the game thread as scummy in relation to this game when "outside the game" doesn't even exist in this little corner of the site for the purposes of the game is terribad.

You have no idea what may be happening in his little world. Whatever it is, it is not related to whether his role pm has red or green text.

If you want to PL the slot because a player got themselves banned, that's on you... but at least have the cojones to admit it's a PL.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Why was Pastro kicked?

Pastro was sitebanned for his behavior elsewhere.

Precisely why his slot is null. He hasn't done enough in the thread to be read.

-House

[Cane + Able]

p-edit: noticed the ban info, this makes it more likely he is aware of what RVS is, hence more likely he is mafia, voting on a player that isn't even there to reply though is not my style, I'll leave it on BMWS for now.

His ban actually makes him look really really scummy, because the way he was posting elsewhere on the site and the character it showed seems, to me, to line up perfectly with his posts being mafia this game. This sucks, because that's not how I like to win games, but I think it's actually really likely he is scum.

^ This... is what I was addressing.

•Do not bring outside influences into the game

^ This... is what I was referring to about outside influences. Bad behavior outside of the game = outside influence.

That said, I missed your earlier reads list when I was swooping through the thread to catch up. Thanks for clarifying on your read.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Done wall bashing. Lynch him if you think earning a ban is worthy of a scum read.

I'll just be sitting on the sidelines with my popcorn to see how it turns out.

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

Gut

This does not inspire a town read. In regards to explaining a vote on texcat at this point in time, gut = "I got nothing".

-House

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to be inactive on this game for awhile until something intresting happens. I'm a little bored, and not enough people have talked for me to get into the game.
Just a fair warning in case it looks like I'm ignoring this game.

Stated intent to lurk does not make lurking any less scummy.

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

Gut

This does not inspire a town read. In regards to explaining a scum read on texcat at this point in time, gut = "I got nothing".

-House

Fixed.

[Cane + Able]

Rudolph, what is your take on our slot?

-House

[Cane + Able]

Rudolph, what is your take on our slot?

-House

I townread your slot based on this solid post by Wake. It's good analysis and very much in-sync with my thought process thus far.

Which is ironic, because I feel like dead weight this game. I've only posted about 3 or 4 times iirc. A bit too much on my plate atm with the new hospital job & training. I can make some damned good posts and reads, but I'm not really able to post frequently for now. Once I get a feel for my clinical shift pattern I'll be feeling more confident. Thanks anyways for the compliment.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Right, people can be read from 3 posts, but not as effectively as someone with more. A low sample size isn't scientifically rigorous. We'll agree to disagree with regards to your fluff posting.

To answer your questions, I think the three are town. I think I would feel better if people like Copper stopped using out-of-date 'scumtells' such as IIOA, but that's a minor pet peeve.

Why do you consider IIoA out-of-date?

Are you a hydra?

If so, who are your heads?

[Cane + Able]

It is rude to ignore one game and post in others

Depends on the game that's being ignored, really. Some deserve to die.

[Cane + Able]

unvote, vote St Constantine the Hermit

Wrong format.

Unvotes and votes both need a colon and have to be on their own line to be counted.

[Cane + Able]

Lurking is not indicative of alignment.

-House

[Cane + Able]

@Everyone:

Let's be civil. If you're town, let's be civil and scum-hunt, not hunt after people we don't like and push them out of the game.

If you're scum, be civil and let us lynch you.

If only it were that simple.

[Cane + Able]

My god, thank you!

Over one unvote?

It's a wonder you're not insta-lynched, the way you act.

[Cane + Able]

Sorry, I'm out until replacements come in. I don't want to play with anyone who holds grudges and votes out of spite. I don't want to play with anyone who is intentionally insulting and abusive.

Unfortunately there are many like that here, and until MS.net enacts stricter rules to diminish trolling and abuse, nothing will change.

What you can do is blackilist the individuals who do so, and be vocal with your opinion. No one likes playing with bullies.

However, this doesn't mean you can't be extremely forceful, aggressive, and intense... so long as you're showing respect and not crossing the line.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

It looks like a shitfest happened while I was away.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Texcat is no longer leaning town and back into the null box.

Why?

-House

[Cane + Able]

Texcat is no longer leaning town and back into the null box.

Why?

-House

Declaring she is not going to try until the replacements are in voids my previous reads on, which were based on speculation of her motivation for keeping her RVS vote.

That's rather silly.

Multiple replacements change the game state considerably. I can see why someone wouldn't want to get invested in the game until it stabilized.

[Cane + Able]

Can we go back to RVS just long enough for me to vote Idiotking?

- House

[Cane + Able]

Which of the two am I talking with?

Hydras should signify who's talking out of policy

That being the case, assume unsigned posts belong to me, because my memory is shit.

-House

[Cane + Able]

@GGG: Thanks for explaining your nulls. What fueled your town read of our slot?

-House

[Cane + Able]

@ GGG: I get that it's a gut read. Just wondering what triggered that gut read.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Liking GGG as town so far. His ability to point out where his gut reads come from is a great selling point. Granted it's only 1 gut read so far, so I'll be expecting similar performance in the future to maintain that read.

-House

[Cane + Able]

on GGG

His readlist and the motivations behind his townreads looks town to me as well, but he is scumreading almost everyone that had a negative opinion on his slot and townreading me without saying anything about why he does, I don't like that because it points to him either having an agenda instead of giving reads, or a link I missed between Rudi and Aneninen that does not include myself, because the explaination that he thinks everyone who is going after lurkers is mafia doesn't hold as I also stated that pressuring newbie was a good idea.

The point about voting lurkers is a theory disagreement, not really alignment indicative.

He went into further detail on his town read of you in post 331.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
My bad I missed the follow up in 331, I understand the nature of the debate on lurkers but I don't much care, I'm more interested in what players perceive to be scumtells, whether they really are or not, if someone is consistently applying them I'm more likely to believe it's his true belief, so in GGG's case 331 doesn't change the fact that he is using "going after lurkers" as a possible scumtell for Aneninen and Rudi, but not mentioning it when reading my slot, once again though I like the thought process behind the town read. Hard call, as he said about Dino if he is mafia and keeps on giving these seemingly legitimate townreads it will show, otherwise I'll start to lean more town on him.

Contradictory actions, or actions that are contradictory to stated beliefs, are scum tells in general. That said, I'll wait until I actually see the contradiction before I cast suspicion. Otherwise it's just paranoia.

I like your cautious approach, though.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Well I might be too tired to react everything but there are a couple of things.

First of all, hi to all the replacements! On the other hand, BMWS's leaving is

Idiotking gave a towntell in his catchup, I mean his very first sentence.

Oh man, wow.

Cool town tell, bro.

[Cane + Able]

"Day 3/4 once the low posters have some content I can see going after them but day 1 is at least bad town. Lean scum" is a scumslip.Can anyone townreading 3G explain said townread? Cause I'm not seeing it.

I can see a point to GGG's disinterest in targeting lurkers D1. We have no clue how busy people are IRL, or what their priorities are. I've played with a handful of folks that pretty much ignore a game D1 and begin their play on D2 as either alignment.

I'll say it again, disagreeing with theory is not alignment indicative.

[Cane + Able]

I don't care about that.

The point is that 3G calls Mr E.B.O.N.Y. 'bad town' and then says he has a scumread on him. This would indicate that he's voting him for being bad town in his eyes, not because he thinks he's scum.

That's not at all how I read it.

GGG says that voting lurkers is

at least

bad town. As in, best case scenario. So a lean scum would make sense if GGG has more reason to suspect what's-his-name than simply voting a lurker.

[Cane + Able]

Liking GGG as town so far. His ability to point out where his gut reads come from is a great selling point. Granted it's only 1 gut read so far, so I'll be expecting similar performance in the future to maintain that read.

-House

House it appears you are buddying me quite strongly here.

Why, you are answering questions to defend me and doing a good job of it but this early you shouldn't have that good of read on me that you are doing some pretty heavy defence. I think you have more posts defending me than I do.

Dude, you're probably the last person I'd be interested in buddying.

You know.

Anyway... I can see why pretty much anybody else would think that in similar circumstances, though.

[Cane + Able]

And truth be told, it's less about buddying you than it is disagreeing with Math, GGG.

I haven't liked his gameplay since page 1 (or thereabouts), so I just instadoubt anything he has to say.

[Cane + Able]

I think at least one of the people who jumped on the strawman that Pastro’s ban was alignment-indicative are scum. This includes Can + Able and Anen.

Are you on crack? You're making the same argument I did & criticizing me for making it first.

The most recent post from Idiotking gives me town-vibes. Specifically, his avoidance of the aforementioned unreasonably popular strawman is town, as well as his general sentiments being very on-point IMO.

The thing that sticks out to me in GGG’s catch-up post is the labeling of C+A as “leaning-town” due to to “mostly gut.” The slot has posted significantly more than any other person, so it is interesting that there were no posts of note that seems to lean one way or the other, but rather the posts as a whole only gave a “lean-town due to gut” read.

Ok, now I see the reasoning in 334 and am even more confused than before you said anything. That reason is terrible. How is that alignment-indicative? The fact that C+A accepted the explanation is even more confusing. That seems really bad and out-of-character for C+A. Generally, when someone is asking someone else why they are town-reading them, it is for two reasons: 1) The person is town and believe the other may be scum throwing out town-reads without real reasoning or 2) The person is scum and is trying to give extra strength to public town-reads on them. I would believe it was 1), but then C+A followed the terrible answer up with “ok, sounds good, you’re town.”

This is easy:
VOTE: Cane + Able

While I have you C + A, could you explain how 334 was a good explanation at all?

Gut.

I hear that's a go-to answer these days.

[Cane + Able]

Quote fail.

[Cane + Able]

acryon is derp town, but he's town.

Not a fan of the wagon.

[Cane + Able]

acryon is derp town, but he's town.

Could you elaborate on this? Why, in light of acryon's case against you, is acryon town?

His posts don't strike me as manipulative, merely ill-conceived.

He might need to steal your username, but I can't see him as scum because of it.

[Cane + Able]

The thing that worries me about C+A is that Constantine originally declared them part of the bloc, and they didn't immediately say, huh? or no! or even hmmm not a good idea. I still have a town read on C+A, but that bloc thing is still a niggling doubt.

Right, now tell us what the very first post was once the game actually started. Then proceed to hide your embarrassment at missing something so obvious.

- House

[Cane + Able]

Starting to question the motivation behind your tunneling, acryon.

It's looking less derpy & more scummy every time you ignore simple logic in favor of insisting on your own flawed perspective.

Scum reads don't bother me, but bad ones that are held up as gospel do.

[Cane + Able]

Going back through Arcy. I don't know what to make of this post. I don't really agree that this is telling people how to play? Arcy can you reiterate why this is scummy again.

The gist is that 1) by making the kind of statements they did, they take a natural controlling role in the game, which makes it very easy to drive lynches, and 2) by being the person that dictates what the town view as scummy, it's easy to simply act in a way that runs contrary to this view.

Nobody is controlling anybody here, least of all me. Being outspoken isn't scummy. Using something as personality driven as that as a scum tell is why people don't listen to you.

Also, just because I have opinions and voice them does not mean I speak for everybody. That you think I do says more about you than me, but not in an alignment indicative fashion.

- House

[Cane + Able]

Just to add some fuel to the fire, I can't be the only one that finds it interesting that someone who has very clearly played a good bit of mafia seems bewildered by the idea of manipulative scum. This also ties in with the playing dumb in response to GGG's argument. Town have no reason to play dumb. You can call

this

tunneling, and it is.

I joined in September. If you consider a few games "a good bit", idk what to tell ya, bro.

- House

[Cane + Able]

See for instance Newbie 1539, which is full of similar examples. Tell me what you think of it.

Oh hey, my first game here.

Before that game, I played one on another site, which led me here.

Fear my experience!

[Cane + Able]

I joined in September. If you consider a few games "a good bit", idk what to tell ya, bro.

- House

This is why I think hydras are stupid. Wake has played a lot more than that, so I think my claim is still reasonable. The whole point of a hydra is to treat it like one slot, yes? So unless you sign up as separate people, I am not going to analyze you separately.

@Acryon
C+A and House in particular has behaved liked this with both players townreading and scumreading him, so I find it likely this is more indicative of a general tendency in his play rather than scum design to throw doubt on the other players, moreover since I believe individual player tendencies are usually more revealing than abstract concepts on how mafia does or does not play, I checked him out and found this kind of dogmatic approach pretty typical for him and not really alignment indicative. See for instance Newbie 1539, which is full of similar examples. Tell me what you think of it.

I certainly agree that the same sort of MO seems to exist there, but I still don't like it here in the context of the misrepresentations. I also don't tend to put much stock in player meta, so I'm even more likely to trust my gut over their meta in this case.

Considering what you are criticizing is my play, not Wake's, then yes, the amount of experience I (don't) have that you say I do is salient to the point.

Throwing away facts that don't suit the read you want to have doesn't make them any less relevant. It does beg me to read you as scum, though. It's like you have a vested interest in wanting me dead. There is no investigation in this exchange.

[Cane + Able]

acryon, give me a reason not to vote you. I'm running out and need to restock.

[Cane + Able]

We need more votes on Acryon.

Waiting on his response. That will determine whether I change my mind on my read.

[Cane + Able]

Nah, just do it!

I prefer Reebok.

[Cane + Able]

Will be dropping my vote on him later this evening if he doesn't respond before then.

[Cane + Able]

Oh nice... throw out a shitty case on me and leave it to stew over the weekend.

I'll return the courtesy, except my case actually has merit.

acryon's selective ignoring of pertinent details in order to sell my mislynch is at best terrible town, and at worst scummy as hell.

He does not care about the truth of the situation, all he cares about is seeing me dead, as evidenced by these latest posts between us, where he criticizes me due to my "experience", then doubles down on his read when I and other players correct his faulty assumption.

Town in that instance would have reevaluated their read, not insisted upon it being correct despite the fact the foundation of their read was completely undermined.

I've tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but feel like he is using that latitude as an opportunity to assault my play and sell a completely unfounded case against me based on nothing but "gut".

VOTE: acryon

- House

[Cane + Able]

Targeting lurkers, that's totally town.

There is a system in place for dealing with inactive players and I'm sure you are aware of this.

[Cane + Able]

Targeting lurkers, that's totally town.

There is a system in place for dealing with inactive players and I'm sure you are aware of this.

These guys aren't lurkers. I am anti targeting lurkers day 1. Texcat is a lurker these are inactives. My question is will we actually find replacements? If we hit the deadline without the replacements do we have to lynch or does the game pause.

In past games on this site do these spots fill eventually?

You should be addressing these questions to the mods.

Lynching inactive/lurkers is bad play.

[Cane + Able]

Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.



(Basically my body's getting acclimated to the physical rigors of the hospital-CNA work routine.)

I'll look into what I can. If you can relegate yours truly any pertinent information that'd be wonderful. Make my day.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Hey Wake!

A lot of players, including myself, strongly suspect Acryon for his weak push on your slot. My case is a fairly good summary of the Acryon situation, if I do say so myself. That's mostly it for the major happenings in this thread.

Well, that spoonfed whoreson shouldn't be pushing me regardless.

(Disclaimer: Just joking. Don't take it seriously, Acryon. )

Like homemade gravy, I like things boiled down. Can you simplify your case to its base elements, please? I'm friggin' tired, man, and my brain is only accepting nutritious, precious little nidbits of pertinent information. You'd be doing wonders for my health and, by extension, society as a whole. It's good to keep health care professionals happy. Your grandparents will thank you.

[Cane + Able]

- Wake

Yeah, I did that.

[Cane + Able]

No problem! Here is what the case says, in bitesize chunks:

-Acryon does awkward vote on you with little to no reasoning
-Acryon admits his own case is crap, justifies his vote on you with some rubbish about 'confident votes are better', blatantly ignores criticism about his case
-Later gets defensive, switching from -- to a degree -- admitting his case was bad to a more passive 'It's not the worst case out there' stance.

So the guy votes me with little to no reasoning, acknowledges it's crap, makes a weird justification, decides to ignore some undoubtedly well-placed criticism, then gets defensive, warbles a bit and then struts out of the yard. Kay.

Fine. Light him up.

By the way, what was his reasoning, if applicable?

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

For reference, do you guys want me to include a frequent/organized spoiler with every post of mine entailed? I can do that if it'd help.

[Cane + Able]

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

There's a player here named GGG? Since when?

[Cane + Able]

- Wake

Yes, I'm that tired.

[Cane + Able]

I'm quite interested in your current reads, when you're finished catching up, Wake.

GGG replaced Newbie

Alright.

Tomorrow is an off day.

I think I should sleep first.

Goodnight, folks.

[Cane + Able]

Aneninen I

(14) | (21) | (23) | (160) | (176) | (213) | (230) | (290) | (293) | (312) | (315) | (343) | (360) | (379) | (389) | (394) | (418) | (425) | (426) | (429) | (443) | (461)

What We Know

Wanted to join a townbloc in 21. In 160 states he was 'just joking.' Mentions that Pastro's ban was null (176). No Scum meta (213). Also in that post asks aloud if he's the only one who thinks it's strange to get solid reads so early. Mentions he's too slow in most of his games (230), and responds to Rudolph's 214 about early reads that, in the initial phase, he uses 'could-s, may-s, and might-s.' Provided reads in that post, too. He gives a misplaced response (290), '(3) I've never told that I'd like to policy lynch her! You're misrepresenting me,' in response to Constantine's 233. Voted for acryon in 461.

How I'm Reading This

Firstly, and with all due respect, some of your posts are way too big and convoluted. Information overload is a common pitfall in Mafia. Too much info causes confusion, frustration, and apathy. I glossed over the walls. A better practice is to provide a central focus to each post. Players will like you if you do that. If posts, to me, feel like they're droning and/or convoluted, I'll skim over it and wait for something valuable.

I didn't like how you wanted to join a townbloc in 21, but since you said you were joking in 160 I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I did like how you mention Pastro's ban was null in spite of what acryon was implying, and your exchange with Rudolph on how one can develop reads so early in the game. You did seem to imply that you have no Scum games here. The last person who said that, Boonskiies, hoodwinked me in Mini 1609. Because of that experience I am unwilling to take that bit off the table and out of my eyesight. I'm not scumreading how you say you're too slow in your games, but I'm not townreading it, either. Your responses to Rudy about the initial phase seemed rather cautious, but it's also common sense to use those qualifiers when you're not sure where people stand so early in the game. I did not read your reads list because of the styling and formatting. You should do reads in their own posts, and find ways to differentiate and tighten focus within them. At a cursory glance Constantine didn't misrepresent you, because he was making a general comment of his own opinion. That you responded that way sort of irks my gut, and does make me wonder just a bit why you'd do that. Then again it was probably just a simple mistake. Are you sheeping on Acryon's wagon in 461?

Who are your top three Scumspects, and which one of them would you lynch today and why?

Where The Player Stands

Glossing over the convoluted parts, I have him as very Slightly-Town, and this is pending how he responds to this post. There are questions and comments within this post that I'd like him to respond to, so I can better understand his alignment. If he works on the way he makes his posts, he'd make me more receptive to what he says.

[Cane + Able]

Wait shit are you doing this with everyone?

How's that not information overload?

It's not information overload if you're giving a focused read on each player, occasionally.

IO is when you post walls and walls of opinion without much of a focus. It turns players off.

[Cane + Able]

Yes, I can make mistakes, too.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

– That is a good thing.
– Yes, please.
– To err is to be human.
– I turn sheep into veal.
– Looking into those reasons. Do you think texcat is lurking?
– Indeed, as time and energy allows.. Random.org/list.

- Wake

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing. This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

Considering he hasn't been active for a while, that is hardly surprising. At least he is contributing something productive.

Take your negative bullshit elsewhere and push around the fluff posters.

- House

[Cane + Able]

@mod. Are the hydra heads allowed to communicate with eachother outside the thread?

Our you could, you know, ask the hydra.

- House

[Cane + Able]

@mod. Are the hydra heads allowed to communicate with eachother outside the thread?

Our you could, you know, ask the hydra.

- House

What the fuck house.

Post 468 you want me to ask the mods about rules now it's ask the hydra. Make up your mind and quit being a dick. Also you might have well just answered the question instead of giving a passive aggressive response. If you would like me to ask

Are you and wake allowed to comunicate with eachother outside the thread.

Rules are mod territory, are they not? o_O

Wake and I have a TitanPad to discuss stuff. It's like QT but different.

[Cane + Able]

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing.

Because I want to.

This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

Which part of "random" needs further elaboration?

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

– That is a good thing.
– Yes, please.
– To err is to be human.
– I turn sheep into veal.
– Looking into those reasons. Do you think texcat is lurking?
– Indeed, as time and energy allows.. Random.org/list.

- Wake

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing. This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

Considering he hasn't been active for a while, that is hardly surprising. At least he is contributing something productive.

Take your negative bullshit elsewhere and push around the fluff posters.

- House

Don't understand this response at all. Why would not being active be a reason to use random.org. Also outside my first I am being productive. I am the only one trying to prevent us from lynching arcynon.

Right, I forgot about that post.

You actually made some good points.

UNVOTE:

[Cane + Able]

Oops, I missed Wake having an opinion on acryon.

Sorry, Wake. Feel free to revote.

[Cane + Able]

Put your votes back on Acryon. He's not town for the claim.

Dude wtf.

The claim

should

make us think twice about lynching, especially on D1. That is a bold claim to fake, as scum wouldn't be able to live long making it anyway. The smart thing to do is wait and see how long it takes him to draw the NK. If he doesn't, he's obvscum.

That's a better strat than risking a doc lynch out of stubbornness.

[Cane + Able]

I don't care for the claim. I do care for his actions. A claim doesn't prove his innocence when it isn't a unique role.

I never said my case was bad. I, multiple times, have addressed that it isn't extremely strong, but given the total lack of other cases in this town, it is by far the best.

You've heavily implied it. If you agreed with your case, you would have defended it in the earlier post instead of justifying that 'confident votes are better'. The fact that you're trying to defend an unrelated issue tells me you can't defend the main problem at hand -- taht is, your bad case.

Bad cases aren't alignment indicative, they're intelligence indicative.

[Cane + Able]

And C+A responded to my case the first day I voted A WEEK AGO, and then tries to say "Oh nice... throw out a shitty case on me and leave it to stew over the weekend." Nobody likes a case on them, but town has no reason to lie about the case to make it look bad.

What you did Friday looked exactly to me as I said it did.

Sure you voted me before that, but your posts were rather meh about it until you decided to make a case and take off for a few days.

Don't post shit like that before your weekly sabbatical if you don't want people reading you as scum for "shit & split".

[Cane + Able]

And C+A responded to my case the first day I voted A WEEK AGO, and then tries to say "Oh nice... throw out a shitty case on me and leave it to stew over the weekend." Nobody likes a case on them, but town has no reason to lie about the case to make it look bad.

What you did Friday looked exactly to me as I said it did.

Sure you voted me before that, but your posts were rather meh about it until you decided to make a case and take off for a few days.

Don't post shit like that before your weekly sabbatical if you don't want people reading you as scum for "shit & split".

This is ridiculous.

Monday - voted you
Tuesday - continued to defend my vote on you
Wednesday - summed up vote on you again with some more details
Thursday - stated the case again for GGG
Friday - Posted a number of times again concerning it

"shit & spit" definitely seem like an odd way to describe 5 days of consistent case-pushing. If I was meh about it before Friday, I'm not sure I would have talked about it 4 days in a row before then.

I didn't say you were meh about it, I said your posts were meh.

See? You misrep too, I'm just not a whiny bitch about it.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: NRG

Just in case we have a deadline today voting an inactive at least moves the game along and reduces the number of replacements. Would suggest scum in the interests of moving the game along kill one of the inactive townies. Then tmw we can only need two replacements and we keep going.

That post doesn't surprise me considering Math, acryon, and texcat are all discussing voting for you.

Instead of trying to address their concerns, you are trying to draw attention to the inactive players.

VOTE: GGG

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: NRG

Just in case we have a deadline today voting an inactive at least moves the game along and reduces the number of replacements. Would suggest scum in the interests of moving the game along kill one of the inactive townies. Then tmw we can only need two replacements and we keep going.

Something tells me scum aren't interesting in helping out the town by killing an inactive.

Killing inactive town doesn't help town, either. They are an easy target for scum-powered mislynches.

[Cane + Able]

Yay for deadline extension.

UNVOTE:

[Cane + Able]

Yay for deadline extension.

This is why the GGG vote from Rudy seems especially curious. We have time, so why would you fall to your 4th suspicion and compromise, especially while acting like you were forced into it.

I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking.

Rudolph has also been WK'ing the fuck out of me. Surprised you didn't call him on that.

VOTE: Rudolph

[Cane + Able]

Can I not think someone is town?

There is a huge difference between town reading someone and intercepting their accusations.

[Cane + Able]

Yay for deadline extension.

This is why the GGG vote from Rudy seems especially curious. We have time, so why would you fall to your 4th suspicion and compromise, especially while acting like you were forced into it.

I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking.

Rudolph has also been WK'ing the fuck out of me. Surprised you didn't call him on that.

VOTE: Rudolph

Well, to be fair I think there's a decent chance you're scum, so it didn't look exactly like WK'ing to me, but if you are town, then it most definitely is.

That being said, I like this vote, and you've convinced me to put my money where my mind is.

VOTE: Rudolph

I've been playing this game for like, two months. I have a hard time trying to pin down what is a town or scum tell because I see players from both alignments doing both and it gets confusing.

That is why I asked Wake to hydra with me, to teach me more about how to spot scum and clear town reads.

Unfortunately, he has r/l things limiting his availability and I am left playing solo until his schedule clears up a bit, so yeah I can kinda see why I might look scummy.

[Cane + Able]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

Why is there probably scum between us, I find people presenting either or cases scummy. You are setting up a double mislynch.

It's not hard to see why people suspect either one of you, so to say one of the two is likely is a fair statement to make.

[Cane + Able]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

Why is there probably scum between us, I find people presenting either or cases scummy. You are setting up a double mislynch.

It's not hard to see why people suspect either one of you, so to say one of the two is likely is a fair statement to make.

Why is either more probable than both or neither.

I don't see neither of you being scum. Hey, I could be wrong (usually am, in fact), but you are both playing a hinky game.

Both is possible, I guess?? But I think it would be more telling to see who would actually push that theory.

I can easily see where an either/or theory came from. Maybe you could too if you weren't one of the potential lynches being discussed.

[Cane + Able]

Also: @Cane + Able:

Are both heads of your hydra in agreement on a read on Mathdino? If so, could you share that read please? If not, I guess I'd like to hear both sides.

I'm a little meh on him, and Wake seeks to have left the building for a while due to apathy (can't blame him!)

- House

PS: Unsigned posts are from House due to shit memory

[Cane + Able]

Seeks = seems

[Cane + Able]

House, you may want to rouse your hydra partner from apathy. My first impression of his first post, post 136, is that it came from scum.

Well that's an interesting take. Care to explain it?

- House

[Cane + Able]

It's possible, MathDino. I'll think about it.

House, you may want to rouse your hydra partner from apathy. My first impression of his first post, post 136, is that it came from scum.

Well that's an interesting take. Care to explain it?

- House

There's a lot of style points for the eye-grabbing pictures and paragraph length, but when stripped of the lectures to Constantine and MathDino there really isn't that much there left at the core. Asking others for reads while saying it's too early for reads list seem to be founded on two different principles that are at odds with each other. Another thing I noticed was the Wake seemed to take a special interest in texcat: "I would appreciate more input from texcat, among others." and "Texcat, I understand the game has only just begun. I'd like to work with you and get a better understanding of what you're seeing and feeling in this game. Does anyone ping on your Scumdar at the moment, if only slightly?" From what I gathered up to that point in posts 89, 96, and 135 texcat's mindset wasn't very difficult to follow: she, correctly, characterized MathDino and House's argument at the beginning of the game as alpha male posturing and gave an implied scumread on Pastro, "But I agree it looks like he parked his vote in the first convenient spot."

Now the question for me becomes, "What is Wake's purpose? What's the goal here?" and I can't come up with an answer to that. It's not just because it was a low-information slot because at that point there were others (Cultivation Theory, for instance). Is he trying to catch texcat out on something and if so what? There's a clear start point of "something texcat is doing is interesting" but all it leads to are a bunch of loose ends.

I'm keeping on the lookout for the follow up to this when I'm reading but overall, the post comes off as "ask just enough questions and give just enough opinions to avoid setting off alarm bells."

Thanks.

I obviously can't speak to his thought process, but I wanted him to have something more substantial than "looks scummy" to address.

[Cane + Able]

Alright, I'm online.

Is there anything I should know about at the moment?

I've forgotten a lot of this game because of work stress and injuries. If you can give me a primer of what's up so far you would be doing me a favor. Viewing the thread, it looks like I've missed out on much. If you have any questions please shoot them to me in list form, and I'll answer them as best I can. Wow, looks like three people replaced out already.

Will get into it more once the pain relievers kick in.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Is the OP correct on the replacements?

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Making an attempt to catch up.

Spoiler: Current Player List

My Milked Eek
bookitty
TellTaleHeart
Rudolph the Reindeer
Mathdino
acryon
texcat
C + A
idiotking
unknown replacement (Gravity)
Aneninen
Copper223
GGG

The last time I posted was nine days ago. I'm here now willing to play and contribute, but please forgive me if I'm unaware of what's been going on. Now that I know who's in the game, I'll get to studying them.

Out of curiosity, who here read my 484 regarding Aneninen? I've been told by various people that that method of reading people is nicely organized and focused.

[Cane + Able]

-Wake

[Cane + Able]

Out of curiosity, who here read my 484 regarding Aneninen? I've been told by various people that that method of reading people is nicely organized and focused.

That's all well and good, but Anen is only one player out of 12. If the "one player at a time" thing is what you're going to do, I'd like it if you did texcat because it ties in with what I said about your early wall-post.

Or you could ask me your questions directly, instead of subtly prodding me to do a big analysis of texcat next. Since you have things you'd like to ask me about regarding texcat, please ask me straight-up instead.

[Cane + Able]

Should probably go V/LA or bow out; I'm still tired, and feeling ill. The problem guys is that there's so much crap to have to pick through. Focusing on work, there's no way I'm able to remember or focus on every little thing that happens in this game. When you guys fight, or go off on huge convoluted tangents, it confuses me. If I could simply extract the very-boiled-down bits of what everyone's brought to the table so far, that'd be better. Information-overload, when I'm not in good health, is not something I like slogging through. I'll read through this thread, but I'm only going to consider whatever I find important. All this excess does is turn my already nauseous stomach.

-Wake

[Cane + Able]

I don't want to let down my hydra partner.

My body is breaking down, and I've been in intense pain for the last few days. Once I can get enough rest I'll have the energy to get into this game. I've been virtually bedridden when I'm not working because of the immense physical work that has been taking it's toll on me. My legs have been throbbing in pain since last evening, and it's tough to focus because of it. I will get into this game. It wouldn't be good to keep replacing out.

Get your rest, bro. I wasn't trying to nag you into playing, just wanted you to know you were being addressed.

- House

[Cane + Able]

copper:

@TTH
Sure, if you check House's games you will likely notice a very dogmatic approach to mafia, he seems to have a list of do's and don'ts on subjects like lurkers, bans, townblocs, RVS... and if you "don't" he will call you out for it, regardless of what exactly you are saying, like Acryon with: bans are not alignment indicative

but

... and then he gives a read on Pastro, House just ignores the but and slams Acryon for using bans to get reads, he does this on multiple occasions with players he townreads or scumreads. That was the focus of Acryon's scumread based on misrepping, to me that just shows he is scumhunting in his own way, what I called his "persona", so it's more likely town indicative. You can see a complete change in the way he writes when he explains he is not an experienced player, i.e. when he is not in House scumhunting mode.

Your point on read consistency and being aimless is totally different though, and I'd like to see where that line of questioning goes.

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House

is

very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

If you are expecting any sort of logical flow and predictability from me, you are in for a wild ride.

Example: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59502

[Cane + Able]

copper:

@TTH
Sure, if you check House's games you will likely notice a very dogmatic approach to mafia, he seems to have a list of do's and don'ts on subjects like lurkers, bans, townblocs, RVS... and if you "don't" he will call you out for it, regardless of what exactly you are saying, like Acryon with: bans are not alignment indicative

but

... and then he gives a read on Pastro, House just ignores the but and slams Acryon for using bans to get reads, he does this on multiple occasions with players he townreads or scumreads. That was the focus of Acryon's scumread based on misrepping, to me that just shows he is scumhunting in his own way, what I called his "persona", so it's more likely town indicative. You can see a complete change in the way he writes when he explains he is not an experienced player, i.e. when he is not in House scumhunting mode.

Your point on read consistency and being aimless is totally different though, and I'd like to see where that line of questioning goes.

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House

is

very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

If you are expecting any sort of logical flow and predictability from me, you are in for a wild ride.

Example: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59502

Summary:

Day 1: Solid play
Day 2: Chaos
Day 3: Risky business
Day 4: Dead (I think)

[Cane + Able]

House

,

Another thing I'd like to do is revisit that acryon vote. In post 387 and post 392, you characterize acryon's case on you as "ill-conceived" but not "manipulative." While I don't really know the reasons for this, it's not that important because where I get lost is what causes this read to change over time. We start seeing the first signs of the read changing in post 407 when you say "It's looking less derpy & more scummy every time you ignore simple logic in favor of insisting on your own flawed perspective." though there's really no precision in this assessment. Regardless of what the "flawed perspective" is, House's opinion at this point is that it arose out of a town mindset. The "simple logic" presented in the interim was basically Anen and GGG saying they don't understand the case and MathDino pretty much saying "nuh-uh" in post 395. People will cling to their beliefs, it's a reflex. Scientists even have a name for it. I've heard it has something to do with the need to be "right" or "win" arguments, which sounds about right.

So, House, what exactly was the point you expected acryon to change behavior? Where was the re-evaluation point supposed to occur?

I joined in September. If you consider a few games "a good bit", idk what to tell ya, bro.

- House

This is why I think hydras are stupid. Wake has played a lot more than that, so I think my claim is still reasonable. The whole point of a hydra is to treat it like one slot, yes? So unless you sign up as separate people, I am not going to analyze you separately.

@Acryon
C+A and House in particular has behaved liked this with both players townreading and scumreading him, so I find it likely this is more indicative of a general tendency in his play rather than scum design to throw doubt on the other players, moreover since I believe individual player tendencies are usually more revealing than abstract concepts on how mafia does or does not play, I checked him out and found this kind of dogmatic approach pretty typical for him and not really alignment indicative. See for instance Newbie 1539, which is full of similar examples. Tell me what you think of it.

I certainly agree that the same sort of MO seems to exist there, but I still don't like it here in the context of the misrepresentations. I also don't tend to put much stock in player meta, so I'm even more likely to trust my gut over their meta in this case.

This is where he stated pinging scum for me.

Until that point, his read was on me and my actions, but when he was corrected on a faulty assumption about my experience he was so invested in his case that he refused to take the new data into account (that I am relatively inexperienced), instead saying that since Wake had experience, his experience justified acryon's read of or slot (even though everything acryon was griping about had absolutely nothing to do with Wake).

That went beyond just tunneling, imho.

[Cane + Able]

I lied and I'm stupid and I dont fucking know what macho means apparently sorry

Can't be protected.

[Cane + Able]

And 2nd doc can't protect acryon because he's macho.

This sucks.

[Cane + Able]

This is where he stated pinging scum for me.

Until that point, his read was on me and my actions, but when he was corrected on a faulty assumption about my experience he was so invested in his case that he refused to take the new data into account (that I am relatively inexperienced), instead saying that since Wake had experience, his experience justified acryon's read of or slot (even though everything acryon was griping about had absolutely nothing to do with Wake).

That went beyond just tunneling, imho.

The only point that was based on experience was the afterthought in post 412. Is the experience and the distinction between you and Wake the only point of contention here?

No, it's the fact he doubled down on his assumptions which were based on a demonstrably false assumption on the rationale that Wake's experience somehow affected my own behavior when Wake has barely even been here.

Imagine a cop coming up to you as a child and saying you broke the law, and when you respond, "I'm six", he replies "well your uncle that you see once a year knows better!"

It's bullshit.

[Cane + Able]

That he was so desperate to sell me as scum that truth became irrelevant told me he was scum, as I am pretty sure I have stated before.

[Cane + Able]

Yay for deadline extension.

This is why the GGG vote from Rudy seems especially curious. We have time, so why would you fall to your 4th suspicion and compromise, especially while acting like you were forced into it.

I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking.

Rudolph has also been WK'ing the fuck out of me. Surprised you didn't call him on that.

VOTE: Rudolph

[Cane + Able]

I'm giving acryon's read of Rudolph credence because macho doc is a stupid fake claim coming from scum imho.

There is no way he's living until lylo with that out there, and I don't see scum cutting their own life span like that.

[Cane + Able]

Cop would have been a better fake claim, as it could have outed a high priority scum target if counter claimed. Since there are two docs, not as likely to get a cc because it would be double suicide for one scum.

[Cane + Able]

macho doc is a stupid fake claim coming from scum imho.

what the

fuck

?

how is macho doc a bad fake claim?

How long do you think he is going to live before town wonders why... he is still... alive.

[Cane + Able]

macho doc is a stupid fake claim coming from scum imho.

what the

fuck

?

how is macho doc a bad fake claim?

How long do you think he is going to live before town wonders why... he is still... alive.

ok bud

there's some stuff you don't post in public

Huh?

[Cane + Able]

macho doc is a stupid fake claim coming from scum imho.

what the

fuck

?

how is macho doc a bad fake claim?

How long do you think he is going to live before town wonders why... he is still... alive.

Who even does NK speculation anymore? As Orc says, it's a very safe fakeclaim for scum to make.

Yeah, if all you care about is evading a single lynch.

Scum can't afford to think short term.

[Cane + Able]

you mean

scum at l-1 can't afford to evade the lynch?

what?

Doesn't do them much good if they are just run up a day or two later anyway.

I mean shit, I'd rather try to fish a cop cc if I was getting run up. That makes a lot more sense for scum imho.

[Cane + Able]

of course you realize that your choice of posting about lynching acryon if he survives a few days increases the odds of scum not killing a town acryon for us to mislynch?

thanks cane

thanks bud

I wouldn't have to point this shit out if you weren't being so dense.

[Cane + Able]

that's rich

No, you thinking me pointing out the logical advancement of a claimed doctor still being alive down the road as something that anyone wouldn't know if they thought about it for thirty seconds is rich.

[Cane + Able]

Here's some more detail that you will cry about because you don't seem to think pay the noise on your face: the fact the doc is macho means scum can't even hide behind "I must have been protected!", and gives scum every reason to target the doc if the claim is true because it's a guaranteed kill.

Why you think that makes it a good fake claim blows my mind.

[Cane + Able]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58830

[Cane + Able]

i mean like i'd bite back at you house but i'd feel bad talking smack to semi-autistic trucker

and like before i get warned or anything for this because of this forum's sensitivity to albeist words and whatever

house is a semi autistick trucker

How about just keeping shit that has no relevance to the game out of the game?

[Cane + Able]

what?

no i mean this is relevant meta

you've been spewing vitriol in this thread all day, saying ppl are on crack, calling me dense whatever

i'm giving context into your actions to show that the anger isn't necessarily alignment-indicative

it's for the same reason i give ppl leniency when they're moving across the nation or when they have family emergencies or whatever

Bullshit. Your first post referencing personal details was a blatant dig at me using information I shared in good faith.

GFY.

[Cane + Able]

i mean like i'd bite back at you house but i'd feel bad talking smack to semi-autistic trucker

and like before i get warned or anything for this because of this forum's sensitivity to albeist words and whatever

house is a semi autistick trucker

How about just keeping shit that has no relevance to the game out of the game?

and actually this is just flat out posturing considering you wrote this in your GTKAS

Although I am a fairly high functioning individual considering my disorder, it is still a constant source of social awkwardness. So please bear that in mind when we are in a game together.

i.e. you literally said, in your GTKAS, that this has relevance to games future players have with you

so i think this "wounded puppy" act is something i am not buying

@mod: replace either orc or me.

Do you buy that, prick?

[Cane + Able]

Wait a minute. I would rather not have us be replaced out but orc if he's going to continue his crap.

If orc wants to keep stomping as hard as he can on that thin ice then let him eat rope for being a dick.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

As for the talk about yours truly, I basically started a new job that's very intensive. I haven't done much since my initial posts here, and I was hoping I could get more of a summary instead of having to slog through more than 900 posts of argumentation and speculation. It would aid me in catching up because, as it is right now, I have no idea what's been happening or where to even begin. If I can get a header on what's what, then I can start working from that point on. This is also my very first Hydra, so it's taking me some time getting used to it.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to let your slot figure out what you're doing because I received a PM from house just now which basically constitutes outside comm.

And I mean how many times do I have to say I stopped my line of questioning there?

More than three times is the answer I guess

From this point on you need to end it.

Now.

Don't bring it up. Don't mention. Just drop it.

What's your read on acryon?

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to let your slot figure out what you're doing because I received a PM from house just now which basically constitutes outside comm.

And I mean how many times do I have to say I stopped my line of questioning there?

More than three times is the answer I guess

I asked you not to join any games I'm in in the future, and I encourage the mod to verify that statement.

I said nothing that had anything at all to do with this game.

- House

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to let your slot figure out what you're doing because I received a PM from house just now which basically constitutes outside comm.

And I mean how many times do I have to say I stopped my line of questioning there?

More than three times is the answer I guess

I asked you not to join any games I'm in in the future, and I encourage the mod to verify that statement.

I said nothing relevant to the game.

- House

EBWOP.

[Cane + Able]

I will say I'm curious who Rudolph is, since he says he's played with me when I was both Town and Scum. Speaking of my meta and all this chatter about how I play, you could always ask me directly here and in detail. You know, straight from the source.

Since I'm looking to catch up and get a feel for the new developments, I'll start on page 34, posts 825-849.

Orc saying he doesn't care about Rudolph's alignment in 825 sort of irks me, because generally in Mafia if you're Town you should be concerned about learning players' alignments. I do find it reasonable for Rudy to question why not.

Methinks TTH really, super honestly doesn't know much about this Wake freak. I, I think she's only played with me once, and I daresay she's not familiar with my six years of experience or the way I deliberately change patterns to try and be less readable. It does feel rather overconfident to deduce how I play from one game, but don't mind me, I'm just the dude in the corner getting gabbed about. Ach, Rudy, never be so confident, guy. I know I'm not Scum this game but please, when you show so much confident over an extremely underrated player, it's a weakness to be worked on.

TTH should be asking me how I play as Scum, to be frank. I'm also hoping she'll talk to me directly about what's been on her mind. I'm not particularly fond of all this indirect business going on. At the moment I don't know why my hydra partner is voting: I need to catch up badly. In general I'm not inclined to vote frequently; if you glance at my past games I'm fond of being conservative with my votes.

So... acryon claimed doctor, and there's two doctors? I've never played Hope Plus One before.

Not sure if I should find 846 flattering and partially-correct, or an attempt to placate someone who can be Scum's worst nightmare. For some reason I feel like he's been handing me these nice little cupcakes, where I simply say "oh yeah!," devour them, and promptly look the other way. Eh, I have a habit of not being fond of players who appear to even remotely seem to be trying to buddy me. It makes me feel paranoid, because for all I know the person nicest to me could be Scum hoping to can my ass later on in the game.

Once I get a better feeling of where people stand I can start descending upon fools and making damned good reads.

[Cane + Able]

917 - Wake

[Cane + Able]

I'm inclined to believe acyron's claim. If you're Scum, and you have the option of fakeclaiming Cop or Doc (of which there is two), it makes more sense to fakeclaim Cop in order to draw the real one out. If the Cop hasn't claimed yet then I suggest you keep it that way. That being said, about believing acryon's doc claim, if he gets to LyLo I'm going to start feeling paranoid.

At the moment I am willing to believe him.

Acryon, fill us in on what your thoughts are so far, please.

[Cane + Able]

- Wake

I keep forgetting to sign my posts!

[Cane + Able]

Eh, not liking the looks of this fast wagon.

I don't get the feeling she's actively lurking. Does anyone have meta on her?

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

Am I mis-reading this? Just because Acryon is alleged town doesn't make his reads any better than yours or mine, it only makes them sincere.

That was the point. I was speaking as to why I was taking his read seriously so soon after scum reading him.

[Cane + Able]

- House

[Cane + Able]

Alright, I followed that advice orcinus PM'ed me, and I'm back.

Got my laptop out now, so I mean bidnezz!

[quote="In post 933, Mathdino"]orcinus and Wake need to shut up about whatever argument they have just as I needed to shut up about Constantine.[quote]

No, that's bullshit.

The thing with you and Constantine was nothing like what orcinus did to me. There was no attempt on the part of either one of you to actually ridicule the other person using sensitive information that was shared in the spirit of friendship.

That kind of behavior has no place in society. It isn't cute when Billy ridicules Howard over his glasses on the achool yard playground, and it's not acceptable here. Him trying to write off his remarks as snark is a poor attempt of defending his crude, bullying tactics.

Bullying and snark are nothing alike, and such attacks on others should not be ignored or glossed over. Such players should be forcibly removed from the game either by the mod or the players to send the message that such behavior will not be tolerated.

I'd prefer to see him force-replaced or even mod killed because he does not deserve to win with whichever faction he belongs to, but I'll settle for stretching his neck.

VOTE: orcinus_thebully

[Cane + Able]

- House

[Cane + Able]

- House

Lol I'm sure you always have 3 scumreads D1.

@All
Can we lynch this guy? I was about to post the same as C+A about wanting out if he continued but I like a lot of players here so I'd rather get rid of the problem, or maybe he is playing like this to be disruptive as mafia, one can only hope and that would at least make sense somewhat.

VOTE: Orcinus

I fear that this town is latching onto an Orcinus lynch because they don't like his playstyle or way of talking to people. I don't particularly either, but he isn't scum for it. Let's call it what it is; this is primarily a policy wagon.

I never suggested otherwise, it's a damn good policy wagon.

[Cane + Able]

Maybe we can get some updated reads to see where people are at, but last I checked, there was no way a C+A lynch would every happen today.

ok so this rings very off to me because there's 5 days left and i have no idea why you're trying to play the diplomacy game especially since replacements shake up gamestate by their very nature and i'm playing along with you as hard as i can and you are not taking my olive branch and i don't know why

hmmmm.

I'm not at all. No offense, but if you actually read through the thread when I presented my case on C+A, there was incredibly strong resistance to basically every part of the case, so C+A would have to do something particularly egregious to get people to change their minds.

Imagine a cop coming up to you as a child and saying you broke the law, and when you respond, "I'm six", he replies "well your uncle that you see once a year knows better!"

It's bullshit.

While I agree that part of my premise for that part of the argument may have been flawed, this seems like an absurd way to describe what a hydra actually is.

It's a pretty accurate description of this particular hydra, if you've been paying attention at all. Not blaming Wake, he has much more important things to deal with. I'm blaming you for leveraging his experience against me when he simply hadn't been participating.

- House

[Cane + Able]

It's a pretty accurate description of this particular hydra, if you've been paying attention at all. Not blaming Wake, he has much more important things to deal with. I'm blaming you for leveraging his experience against me when he simply hadn't been participating.

- House

Can we stop acting like a flawed perception of your experience was somehow the crux of my case?

Refer to 393 and explain how those points are based on experience?

That post is a pretty accurate description of my playstyle, as a cursory glance at any of my games (except my scum game, ironically enough) will confirm.

[Cane + Able]

So

Mod

Since C+A seems to have no troulbe talking about the "autistic trucker" situation (ala 939), and seeing as you posted after him, i will as well. After all the list of things we can/cannot talk about should be universal among players, correct?

I honestly honestly think C+A is trying to be emotionally manipulative. The replace out was apparently faked. The vote on me is according to said post purely due to being offended, which as i've mentioned before using that GTKAS quote, shouldn't be the rational response to this. The "kicked puppy" thing is purely AtE and I think that the deliberate manipulation rings scum to me

Given the information I have to work with I don't feel a genuine interaction here

Fuck you. I didn't cancel the replace out.

Wake did. You can just go to hell.

[Cane + Able]

And this is precisely how things are going to be until one of us are gone.

[Cane + Able]

i'm not sure what you plan on achieving through these personal attacks but that's all right bud i forgive you

Piss off, prick. I'm not the one that started the PERSONAL attacks.

i mean like i'd bite back at you house but i'd feel bad talking smack to semi-autistic trucker

It doesn't get any more PERSONAL than that.

[Cane + Able]

why don't you just replace out?

1) Wake didn't want to.
2) The two of us shouldn't be punished for

your

bullshit.

[Cane + Able]

Why don't YOU replace out?

[Cane + Able]

Good choice is good.

GIF is not Rudolph (Yes, I will figure you out, Bub. )

I'll be V/LA until Sunday. Hard work tomorrow and Saturday.

- Wake

[Cane + Able]

I figured you weren't GIF.

Process of elimination!

I only have a couple hundred thousand other members to clear.

[Cane + Able]

You can rule out the other players in this thread too!

Hey! Yeah! I'll figure you out sooner or later!

[Cane + Able]

Don't mess with texcat.

She's so obvtown it hurts.

- House

[Cane + Able]

Whether or not GIF actually hammered me or not, that still has to be the scummiest thing I've seen in a long time. Randomly hammering in the middle of the night? Stopping to count the votes,

after

you hammer? My vote was on Orc, but just to emphasize how scummy I thought that was,

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

This OMGUS is really scummy, by the way.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

It's posts like this that has me scum reading you.

[Cane + Able]

SHe voted Giffy for voting her. Oh my god you suck (for voting for me)

Votes don't exist in a vacuum.

Her scum read on GiF existed before his vote, so OMGUS does not apply.

[Cane + Able]

His random vote should, if anything, make him look MORE town

Said no credible townie, ever.

Random voting has scum written all over it. Town cares about losing town, scum just wants a lynch.

On top of that, he didn't even vote the 11th player, which is Rudolph!

I think he used the excuse that he wouldn't self-vote to dodge lynching his scum-mate, because there is no other reason I can think of to fudge random results.

VOTE: GiF

[Cane + Able]

So speaking of texcat
why are people voting him again?

Active lurkig.

I crap all over your bad OMGUS excuse, and you fall back on

that

?

I can vote here, when you flip scum it will support my theory about GiF dodging you with his "random" roll.

VOTE: Rudolph

[Cane + Able]

Am I at L-1? I'll claim upon intent

Oh come on, how many people can be that close to a lynch at one time?

[Cane + Able]

my theory about GiF dodging you with his "random" roll.

Which has been already proven false by 1178.

Posting an excuse is not proof by any stretch of the imagination.

The only way not voting the number you rolled makes sense according to your story is if you rolled a 3 (your own number).

There was no need whatsoever to skip yourself when you were not the result.

[Cane + Able]

Ok let me show you how dice tag works.

It works like this.

Code: Select all

[dice]nDm[/dice]

n is a number of results you want. m is how many sides you're rolling from.

so if I do 1D12 it shows

Original Roll String: 1d12 (STATIC)

1 12-Sided Dice: (6) = 6

if I do 2D5 it shows

Original Roll String: 2d5 (STATIC)

2 5-Sided Dice: (3, 1) = 4

When you are done fluffing with forum mechanics, feel free to address the content of my post.

Or not.

[Cane + Able]

Me doing 1D12 means that I set the side of the dice 12, which means... One less player from 13 total players.
And guess who is that 1 person excluded from my pick?
Yeah.

P-Edit: ....

Meh, I was reading it as a 13 on this tiny screen. <_<

[Cane + Able]

I'm confused and unnerved by the screenshots. Do I have to worry about this?

In my Post 1138 I cited my issues with Texcat, which to me are not what I would call active lurking. Yes, there's fluff there, but I'm capable of being fluffy with people I play with often and am comfortable with. It's like the Amished tell for me; I've done it as town, ergo I know town can do it.

I just feel like Texcat isn't really giving any reads that she stands by. She talked about calling out someone as town, but she's not doing that. It's like she's tiptoeing around on eggshells hoping that no one gets offended by her posts. Orci enters the game and she asks him if he plans to do any scumhunting, which is like saying, "Do you plan not to beat your boyfriend tonight?" Well, no, I don't, but now I want to know what you think of me for asking that question in the first place. Then she backs off with this:

LOL, no, it was an entirely rhetorical question. But here's some real questions. Have you read the thread yet? Do you plan on doing so? I will admit that at 37 pages it is somewhat of a slog. I found the 8 or so new pages today to be a little intimidating.

Now, I do know Orci a bit and I'm going to say he hadn't read the thread imo. But if he says, yes, no, or maybe, how does this indicate his alignment? I've read the thread; does that now make me town? It's not asking for his reads or explaining why she was asking him about scumhunting when I haven't seen anything I would call that from her either.

Maybe that IS active lurking. To me, it looks more like trying to cast suspicion on someone and then backing off when it becomes clear that he's an aggressive player, which Orci definitely is.

Why would scum who is being so careful "not to offend anyone" turn around and act in such a ham-handed manner as you are describing? Your theory contradicts itself.

[Cane + Able]

I didn't say she was good at it. But why ask an inflammatory question and then say, Lol, it was rhetorical? Do you think any of her follow-up questions qualify as scumhunting?

What did you think of Texcat's explanation for her read on your slot based on a previous game where Wake was the moderator and you were scum? I really want this answer from Wake, I guess, since that was who she was primarily commenting on from what I can figure. (I haven't gotten an answer to this question from her.)

No no no, back up. I'm not letting you dismiss this glaring contradiction with "lol bad player lol" after implying a deliberate scheme.

Somebody that is bad at walking on egg shells to avoid suspicion wouldn't just blurt out a confrontational accusation, they'd get caught out for making an otherwise innocent remark that had scummy undertones.

What I think is that you knew about the contradiction when you devised the theory, and tried to incorporate it instead of leaving it out there for somebody else to find.

I also think that you are aware of texcat being a fairly passive player and view her as low hanging fruit that you can easily get a wagon going on with minimal effort because of her laid back participation.

Your motivations thus far are looking pretty scummy, so I expect to see something in the way of actual cases that can't be easily undermined for your future reads.

[Cane + Able]

This is my first time playing with Texcat, actually. Are you saying she's a pretty passive player in your experience?

Yes, and it's pretty obvious here in this thread as well.

And by the way, I'm not the first person to criticise Texcat's level of participation or contribution in this game. Why is my actual case so much more problematic for you than the general grumblings that came well before I replaced into this game?

Because I'm here participating at the moment. I don't have the time to constantly dig through everything I miss between visits. God knows, I wish I did!

And why is it okay to make an attack (and that was an attack, for sure) and then say, Lol, it's rhetorical? Is that characteristic of town scumhunting to you? Doesn't it seem more like a response to the criticisms that she wasn't contributing or giving strong reads or having much of an opinion on anything, followed quickly by the retraction when she got a more aggressive response than she expected.

idk, I wasn't around for that. (As above)

Where are your cases?

ISO me.

You're awfully quick to paint mine scummy, but you're not giving a lot for anyone to work with here other than acrimony and faulty logic. Let me demonstrate:

If I were so clever as to construct this genius case on Texcat and I knew there was this contradiction (omg, she showed aggression once but she immediately retracted it) then why would I include that contradiction in my case if I were scum trying to push a bad case? I mean, I quoted a LOT in the post that actually contained my case, which is not the post you're addressing. Your logic requires that I both see a contradiction and then include it anyway because I think no one else will notice. Really? If I thought it was a contradiction, why would I have included it?

Already explained.

I don't feel that undermines my case at all. In fact, I think that if I posted, "Cane + Able, do you plan to ever make a case or give a list of reads?" and then you answered sharply and I said, "Lol, it was a rhetorical question," you wouldn't be reading it with the confbiased eye you're turning toward Texcat's postings here.

IDK, let's try it.

You start.

[Cane + Able]

You need to read the thread, C + A.

I believe the quote we're disputing supports my case. Since you're not keeping up by your own statement, I don't see the point in arguing about things you're not actually reading with context.

It would be much easier to do if that context were provided via quotes and/or post numbers, which I have not seen anything of thus far.

I'm not reading through everything just to find a couple posts.

[Cane + Able]

@Mod:

This hydra head is on indefinite Limited Access. Health reasons. I will play as my health allows.

As it is right now I have no idea what the state of this game is or what's been going on. If you have questions, it would help if you direct them towards me in bold so I can see them. Chances are, since it's been at least nine days since reading this thread, my memory won't be crystal-clear.

- Wake