Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Mathdino
Still has a hat.

[wgeurts]

Ok droog and mathdino are town,
I'd like alchemist to do be so as well however I'm unsure on him. Also, alchemist screw you for making any negative comments on you look like WIFOM .
Anyway, I'll make a proper reads list and explanation in a sec.

[wgeurts]

Oh crap,
UNVOTE: Mathdino
Your not scum.

[wgeurts]

I'd like alchemist to do be so as well however I'm unsure on him.

This makes it sound like you want to assume alchemist is town and find evidence to match. I don't see any town motivation for doing that. In fact it seems rather scummy to want to find a way to town read someone.

If I'd like him to be town causing me to conf. bias that would mean I wouldn't be unsure of him. This is in itself a fallacy.

[wgeurts]

I need to reread and take a really good look.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: amy

Give us a vote pls.

Looks opportunistic.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Anenenin
Scum found lets lynch now, my case will be up later for this.
Also, mayate is now also in my town list.

[insanity018]

Anenin,

[Removed ongoing games reference ~insanity]

He's sheeped dino and it seems like the general oppinion at that point was against amy. He could of voted in his first catch-up however he waited so that he could see how it would go. When he saw Dino go for it he joined, as scum this is a great position to set yourself up early game.
@An,
Why didn't you vote straight away, why didn't you also factor in her being a noob?

[wgeurts]

My main point is anen managed to slip onto a wagon and claimed some soft-meta on her with an ongoing game. That meta was wrong and I really don't want this to happen. Anyway, I don't have a lot to go off and yes my scum find is slightly non-serious. We need to however get discussion going as it's stalled around page 6. The scum will of cause lurk in this as it benefits them. So yeah, my vote is basicaly summed up as "Anen seems oportunistic". It's day 1 and we need discussion, get it going.

[wgeurts]

Ah, anen responded.
Could you consider the possibility of her being scared as noob with her being vigilante or something. That's my paranoia, if we lynch her she could be a legit town vig. What draft was she again?

[wgeurts]

Someone speak with meh.

[wgeurts]

Ok droog and mathdino are town,
I'd like alchemist to do be so as well however I'm unsure on him. Also, alchemist screw you for making any negative comments on you look like WIFOM .
Anyway, I'll make a proper reads list and explanation in a sec.

How did I make them look like WIFOM?

If I were a vengeful and got lynched, I would target Wgeurts.

@Mathdino, I saw what you posted on his meta. It seems interesting to note, but I wouldn't base a case on it. I'm more concerned with how he attacked Ane for sheeping Dino on Amy, yet Droog openly admitted to sheeping someone on the wagon, and Wgeurts is calling him town. The double standard there doesn't sit well with me.

That should of been OMGUS.

[wgeurts]

Alchemist where's my double standard,
Anen, why would noob hard-claim?

[wgeurts]

Examples?
Anyway you're reacting well, UNVOTE: Anen

[wgeurts]

What is AtE, I feel like I should know this :S

[wgeurts]

Ah ok thanks.
Mathdino who do you think are scum?
Also thoughts on the lurkers?
I feel like we should pressure them to get discussion.

[wgeurts]

Mathdino

- While I disagree with his opinions on some roleclaims, he gets townpoints for replying to comments and counteropinions on what he said. And I can see the town ideology behind his posts talking about his reads on various people, and I can't find any gaping holes in his reasoning. On the other hand, I don't like him dragging the theory discussion on and on, and while we did still get game-related posts from him, it seems like an easy way to beef up one's ISO and natter on about something that looks like participation.
Also, regarding post 152, if you're not reading based on the phrase then what are you doing. That's how your read started off. Are you sure you're not just reading into the other behaviour because you picked up on the phrase?

I picked up on it, so I checked his ISOs just to see what would happen and it turned out that I was correct in that wgeurtscum is far more confident while wgeurtown is more wishy-washy. Best part is Open 575 just ended so I can talk about that freely. I'd never scumread someone just for a phrase, but that phrase might send me on a mini-investigation.

The scum found was not serious, it's commonly said.

[wgeurts]

Addendum: Your lines of questioning suck, no offence. Your thoughts on setup spec and Flubber are enough to stop me from scumreading you, but yeah, those questions along with the paragraph on setup spec that mostly parrots popular opinion is kinda useless.

My "oh the horror" line was in response to this.
I dont see my posting style as useless. I tend to not be aggressive as either alignment. Get over it.

Selfmeta.

[wgeurts]

Alchemist where's my double standard,
Anen, why would noob hard-claim?

I assumed wgeurts would read back and find the answer to this, but since he hasn't replied I'll repeat it.

124 - Droog openly sheeps Anem's case on Amy.

133 - Wgeurts calls Droog Town.

151 - Wgeurts votes Ane for sheeping Mathdino's case on Amy.

Now my question to wgeurts: Why do you think it's scummy for Ane to sheep Mathdino but not for Droog to sheep Ane? Also, it doesn't look at all like Ane sheeped Mathdino's case in the first place, so I don't know how you even came to that conclusion.

Anenenin had convieniently done it in his catch-up, it was either dripping with conf-bias or it was a fully intentional scum way to join the wagon. Both aren't good, droog however I was already town reading. My vote on Anen wasn't because he sheeped, it was more how he did it and a lot of gut.

[wgeurts]

Ah ok thanks.
Mathdino who do you think are scum?
Also thoughts on the lurkers?
I feel like we should pressure them to get discussion.

Any special reason you didn't act on this idea of pressuring people? I find it to be very passive, and the one liners since then are even worse.
VOTE: wgeurts

I've been a little busy, however I'm rereading the game this time again (as i did with anen) and seeing what things catch my eye this time. The lurkers have also now mostly been replaced.

[wgeurts]

Why am I being voted?

[wgeurts]

Hahaha thanks dino for 249. He unvotes amy saying contradicting or conflicting oppinions don't make her scum then goes on to vote me for seemingly just that as that's the only case I can see.
VOTE: Siveure

[wgeurts]

I'll take a look at all three their ISO's when I have time.

[wgeurts]

So Flubber's another randomidget?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Siveure

Dammit alchemist, why have you changed again without reasons?

[wgeurts]

I've got short pc access, I'm making a read list on everyone complete with quotes and reasons why my read is what it is.

[wgeurts]

Here is my

UBER DUBER MASSIVE OMG READS LIST!!!

Spoiler: Flubbernugget

This guy has 10 posts, this should be easy.
So he's basically voted three people in these posts:

VOTE: guts

Sheeping dino. I town read him and I suck at mafia right now.

VOTE: amy

Give us a vote pls.

VOTE: alchemist

I'm genuinely fucking pissed he used 4 to ge

The first was an RVS and the next two aren't(?) It's odd that he's been on the only two major wagons up till now without posting any useful posts. However as dino said it looks too scummy to be scum so I'm considering the other option; he's buisy with something in life and is hence isn't able to invest any effort into this game. However this doesn't add up with his "I'm playing terribly at mafia right now" claim so I'm scum reading him.
@Flubber, if you don't have time please replace out.

Spoiler: droog

I disagree with him in areas however he seems to be putting in a little effort in scum hunting. The only thing that feels a little off is this:

town read on alchemist, he seems pretty straightforward and probing
wgeurts is lightly pinging my scumdar. not like he did when i played him scum last though

May just be my paranoia however it looks like he was setting himself up to join my wagon. I need more info from him so he'll stay mild town

Spoiler: Davesaz

This guy is just stating his opinions and asking and probing with useless questions her and der. It feels a little like Wisdom in open 575 early game play to me and it isn't at all like his play in another game which I'll check later to see which alignment he was. A meta case could pop up later as a result of this. I wouldn't mind lynching him as his vote on me looks really bad with his earlier content but I'll first take a look at meta.

Spoiler:

Alchemist now looks town to me, he's probing and scum hunting. He also hasn't been on either of the two major wagons so far which I would have expected from him as scum. He also has provided legitimate reasons for his votes so far however his latest vote feels a tad off. I'm going to await an explanation for this vote.

Pr edit: He has explained, splendid.

Rest coming later, I'm gonna eat smoked sausage.

[wgeurts]

OK so i caught back up... Still getting some decent town reads, not really seeing anything scummy enough for me to vote. In re to the above post by math, honestly I can see myself making a post like that as town so I wouldn't be too quick to call that a scum post. It seems more like frustration than scum tbh.

Ankamius, I don't think we've played a game together... Maybe you're thinking of Venmar? I took a quick scroll through my wiki and we haven't been in any games together that I can see. Regardless, welcome to the game!

If anything I'm gonna be watching siv and flubber a bit more due to the wgeurts wagon.. I agree, it seemed a bit too fast. Dave still strikes me as town though, as does math.

Anyway, I gotta go. I'll probably be back online in an hour or 2, though.

Please just post a list of reads and just vote the top scum read. If people are ties use random.org, just do something!
Other reads are delayed but not cancled, back to phone posting.

[wgeurts]

Is it just me, or has wgeurts' English improved considerably since Open 574?

Mmm, I am taking English lessons as I need them for some cources.

[wgeurts]

Well there is amy, or you can vote yourself.

[wgeurts]

something about mathdino is screaming alarm bells ni my head
and i have no idea what

Not only one there.

[wgeurts]

Alchemist21 - 4
davesaz - 6

Hayate Yagami

Ankamius - 8
Siveure DtTrikyp - 13
Venrob - 15
Aneninen - 1
Romitelli - 1
Amy Farrah Fowler - 3
farside22 - 3
Mathdino - 5
wgeurts - 5
Flubbernugget - 2

gangsta_duck41

AdrienC - 2
droog - 2

Groups that don't have more than one scum:

Alchemist, Siveure, davesaz

: Finding it unlikely Siv would've let Alch go for 4. Alch's behaviour is mostly scummy if Siveure flips town. Setup spec tells me it's unlikely there's more than one scum here simply because Siveure didn't get his pick, along with a few other things.

Aneninen, Romitelli:

High chance for Anen to be scum if Siv's town. It'd certainly fit the whole "scum chooses one high, one low, and one middle" draft pattern. Until we get a flip, no comment on this pair.

Amy, farside:

Amy more likely than farside, but I'm less confident in my Amy read than I was due to aforementioned wagon patterns.

Mathdino, wgeurts:

wgeurts is prob town by this point.

Flubbernugget, Adrien, droog

: Hmm. Originally I'd have gone with Flubber but people's input makes me less sure. Also voting patterns make me think Flubber and Siveure aren't a thing. So I'd go with Adrien.

Ankamius

: Not enough to tell. Every one of Hayate's posts were null IMO.

Very much appreciate the low number of groups to go through. This, people, is why you don't pick 9001 or 42. NKs in the top section will make it easier. As of now, here are my 2 callings of the more-likely-to-be-scum-of-the-groups:

If Siv's scum

: Siveure, Romitelli, Amy, wgeurts, Adrien, Ankamius

If Siv's town

: Alchemist, Aneninen, Amy, wgeurts, Flubbernugget, Ankamius

Anyone got any input, I'm welcome to it.

Fully manufactured BS, why?
Because you say I'm prob town and then go on to say I'm likely scum whatever siv flips. You also seem to be buddying me through this and I don't like it.
VOTE: Mathdino
Siv can wait.

[wgeurts]

Oh wait, I'm an idiot UNVOTE:
VOTE: Siv
Nvm.

[wgeurts]

Mod, can the doc self protect?

From the wiki entry for doctor, no, the doctor cannot self protect.

-_-

Yeah okay the doc's pretty much dead.

I see no doc claim.

[wgeurts]

Ven: Why did you vote flubber first over Siv?

Spoiler: quote

OK so i caught back up... Still getting some decent town reads, not really seeing anything scummy enough for me to vote. In re to the above post by math, honestly I can see myself making a post like that as town so I wouldn't be too quick to call that a scum post. It seems more like frustration than scum tbh.

Ankamius, I don't think we've played a game together... Maybe you're thinking of Venmar? I took a quick scroll through my wiki and we haven't been in any games together that I can see. Regardless, welcome to the game!

If anything I'm gonna be watching siv and flubber a bit more due to the wgeurts wagon.. I agree, it seemed a bit too fast. Dave still strikes me as town though, as does math.

Anyway, I gotta go. I'll probably be back online in an hour or 2, though.

Please just post a list of reads and just vote the top scum read.

If people are ties use random.org, just do something!

Other reads are delayed but not cancled, back to phone posting.

I was told to vote my top scum read, and if there are ties use random.org. Since it was a 2-way tie i simply flipped a coin- and it landed tails, so I voted flubber. Then siv moved up on my scumreads list and I switched my vote to him. My flubber vote was in my next post after the quoted post.

Well, I guess this makes him town now.

[wgeurts]

This setup would work so much better if draft was kept secret from all. Scum can cherry pick PR's from high drafts.

[wgeurts]

also
wont it look odd
if some of the highest-ranked drafters
are conspicuously not killed

Yeah, however they could abuse that themselves.

[wgeurts]

Ok we need to get conversation rolling, I suggest we all post out top 3 scum reads with reasons. All that don't we'll pressure.
This will make lurkers stop lurking, make people not investing time invest time and it'll force scum to fabricate more than 1 read. All in all it'll create a lot of information and we mat catch a scum who slips up in the fanrication of his/her top 3 scum reads.

[wgeurts]

My top three scum reads are:
Siv: His lurking style doesn't go down well with me, the worst is it seems as if he is doing it intentionally. I also think that this wagon may be actually hitting scum as if you look it seems to have been given a lot more resistance than mine and amy's. I'm going to meta cov as flubbers made some points on it and that could lead to siv or flubber looking scum.
Romitelli: Stop lurking, lurking would be a great strategy for scum in the case that siv is town. Scum could just sit back and relax and let the town hang themselves. They also get an added bonus of making few associative tells which benefits scum late game, we really need discussion to stop scum playing like this. I'm going to meta him as well to see how he plays as scum/town.
TheAdrien: Same reasons as Romi, meta will also happen on him.

There may be a few meta cases popping up from me later. I don't think flubber is scum as his play wouldn't make sense if it were. I need to relook the Alchemist case so it'd be great if someone could some it up.

[wgeurts]

Hey. Hey wgeurts.

Guess who my top 3 scumreads are.

Will give ya something to do. Otherwise, I like this conversation just fine xD

All seriousness, this is prob town wgeurts. Town found.

I'm guessing Alchemist is one, post the reads and the reasons, we need the ball to get rolling.

[wgeurts]

Uh.

My wagon hasn't hit more resistance than wgeurts' or amy's. Just mine has stuck around way longer.

My scumreads are like:

Alchemist: He is telegraphing his play in a way that makes it completely ineffectusl.
Aneninen: This is mostly him posting stupid and redundant questions that don't really sit well with me.
Romitelli: Yup. For lurking.

Quote Anen's "Stupid Questions", if possible do some quick meta to see if he normally does this as town/scum. Meta alchemist and explain more in depth please.

I'm doing meta on flubber/romi/Adrien/siv

[wgeurts]

wgeurts

Flubbernugget
droog
davesaz
Alchemist21
Ankamius
Amy Farrah Fowler

Siveure DtTrikyp

Aneninen
Romitelli
TheAdrienC
Mathdino

farside22

Venrob

Those that aren't bolded post your top 3 scum reads and provide reasons.

[wgeurts]

Meta research:

Spoiler: Flubbernugget

His recent posts in all his game are similar to now. His most recent scum game (that I could find) was PokerFace's RITP and this is the link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6347805
I can't place my finger on it but it really doesn't feel similar to now. However he did lurk to LYLO so we should keep an eye on him. A policy lynch is also possible however I'd only support this if nothing pops up before the time limit.

Spoiler: Siv

I'm a lot more confident in my vote on him. I've looked at 5 of his games (Go to his wiki for a small (outdated?) list.).
As scum he plays as he is now, not following the game as much (his not knowing what to post and lurking.) catching up occasionally. As town he's a lot more active, you can see in his posts his train of thought. As town he is also a lot more invested and he seems to follow the game a lot more.

Spoiler: Romitelli

He's been more active in other games than this one. He seems rather new with 150ish total posts. He promised to catch up so I want to pressure him into actually doing crumpets.

Spoiler: Adrien

From his few posts he seems town according to his meta. However he must start posting soon or I'll pressure him too.

[wgeurts]

Failed the link, wow.

[wgeurts]

wgeurts

Flubbernugget
droog
davesaz
Alchemist21
Ankamius
Amy Farrah Fowler

Siveure DtTrikyp

Aneninen
Romitelli
TheAdrienC
Mathdino

farside22

Venrob

Those that aren't bolded post your top 3 scum reads and provide reasons.

[wgeurts]

Siv has updated his wiki (nothing gets put on da wiki without me knowing) so I'm going to meta his more recent games. Also, pist your fudge top 3 reads people!!!

[wgeurts]

Damn it dino, don't make us lynch you in my third(?) game with you.

[wgeurts]

So uh, can we like lynch Romitelli?
Or siv?
How long do we have left?

[wgeurts]

@MathDino
You're doing a good job of making people suspicious, I think it's however incorrect. The amount of effort you're putting in would be odd as scum.

[wgeurts]

That's a lot of posts Droog, please don't go and do a Wisdom.

[wgeurts]

Bro.

M'kay

[wgeurts]

wisdom?

A player that would spam pages with catch-ups in open 574

[wgeurts]

UNVOTE: Siv
Doesn't seem so scummy to me anymore, I'm going to meta his more recent games.

[wgeurts]

I dropped meh iPod, my only good keyboard while my PC is kaput, my posts will probably be shorter and contain more typos due to android sucking.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Siv
He's buddying, sheeping and getting away with it. I started to null read him but this recent play screams scum to me.

[wgeurts]

That vote count is pleasing, 5, 4, 3, 2

[wgeurts]

Well shit,
VOTE: Mathdino
Not changing this vote.

[wgeurts]

I'm on phone but I'll make a case.

[wgeurts]

Can you lynch amy so I don't break my promise.

[wgeurts]

That my vote won't leave dino.

[wgeurts]

Prod accepted

[wgeurts]

UNVOTE: Mathdino
Not being on the same wagon as her

[wgeurts]

So we are probaly voting one scum right now, dino like you did in stack dat deck could you make a vote analysis then we can see where's resistance and it'll make associative tells easier day 3. I would do it however this frickin phone makes life unbearable (I've got a laptop without internet so I can use it as a text editor and email to my phone worst case) I'm rereading day 2, I've been buisy and suggest we get discussion rolling again, who are the people lurking *now*?

[wgeurts]

Woop, fixed my laptops internet.
Now, seriously (half-policy):
VOTE: Venrob
I don't see any posts from him, his whole thing looks staged as well.

[wgeurts]

Ankimis, I've not read a good deal of the game due to having nothing woth a *good* browser. I'm rereading now that's not the case however I'm also doing it in other games one so I'm kind of buisy in that aspect. Formerfish is town and my amy read must wait for her replacement. So I'm voting the person who's just lied about posting as that looks bad, I'll switch if during my reread I come across anything else more scummy than a lurking liar.

[wgeurts]

Lol, isn't that OMGUS?
Technically, well lynch all liars I say. That was not a useful post.

[wgeurts]

Formerfish I doubt that's what he means the situation could be:
He's scum and wants venrob (town) lynched and you're town.
He's scum and is bussing venrob (scum) and you town.
You're both town and he's gone mad.
You are scum and he's odd town, venrob probaly town.

I'd say 3 or 1 are the most likely of these.

[wgeurts]

God my grammar an sentence structure just committed suicide.

[wgeurts]

Also, Aneninen is town, fuck you if you ask why. I find it likely there was scum on his wagon, but I can't remember who was on his wagon so I'll go and check real quick.

Why?

[wgeurts]

I'm rereading everyones ISO, I apologise for my poor play day 2. For the time being UNVOTE: venrob

[wgeurts]

I'm sorry my day 2 play has been absolutely rubbish, my holidays nearly are starting so I've got time to make a more extensive analysis of each individual.

Flubbernugget

17 - This is his random vote on alchemist.

18, 23 and 132 - These are all fluff.

146 - Votes amy in what looks like a pressure vote. It looks opportunistic as amy already had 4 votes so it feels a bit off. Slightly scummy.

147 - Fluff.

251 - Basically naked votes me using the excuse of sheeping Mathdino as he's his strongest town read. This also feels off as I had 4 votes at that point and he has now been on the 2 main wagons without any good reasoning. More scummy.

253 to 411 - Fluff.

412 - Through this post we see that Flubbernugget thinks Davesaz and Siveure were scum. Noted.

428 - After vaguely calling Siv scum in his last post (While pressure was rising on him) he now calls him scum

while siveure has 5 votes on him

. Why doesn't flubber vote siv there and then?
It looks like he's setting up for the mis-lynch from a scum-perspective.

431, 438 and 469 - Weak one-line reasoning attempting to justify his Siv scum read. It's weird he isn't voting him.

(Only noting posts of worth from off here.)

615 - If flubber is scum this could be seen as a possibility to set up for a wagon hop to Alchemist if the Siv wagon dies. Alchemist had 2 votes by that point and would of been the most likely counter-wagon. He's still voting me with no reasoning although he's expressed many scum reads.

820 - Votes Adrien without any reasoning in a naked vote.

835 - Now this is odd, he just quit all the main wagons at that point. This doesn't add up with scum theory.

896 - He adds Venrob to his scum list. Well, he's back to his scum looking self again. This feels like setting up to go either way with Adrien or Venrob both the main suspects besides me.

Bleh, either really bad town play or scum. I'm making a list of who's most likely scum with scum at the top:

1. Flubbernugget

He's the first on it so this may change.

[wgeurts]

Droog

8 - His RVS vote on Anen.

13 and 20 - He's already analysing wagons and votes. Small town points here.

31 and 37 - He's contributing to setup speculation. I don't know why people add reads to this as scum could also just join in to look like they are contributing. Null.

61 - Backs up his earlier analysis methods. Feels town but is really null.

99 - Hinting that he feels something's off with Dino's posts. Dino wasn't a suspect at that point so this grants very small town points.

101 - I disagree with him but he's actually looking through posts trying to find stuff.

111 - This is a good post. I agree with him that setup spec isn't automatically town-motivated.

124 - Don't know what to make of this. He's sheeping a case saying he'll vote Dino if he does anything more scummy. The scum perspective here would be that he tried to get a Dino wagon going however it didn't catch so he's giving up and the town one would be he's not convinced himself of his Dino read. He votes Amy while she's at 3 votes here.

149 - The town theory seems to add up to this. He's unconfident in the Amy wagon so he says he will quit if it reaches L-1. I find it hard to give a scum motivation for this.

237 - This could be given a scum motivation, it could be possibly seen as setting up to hop onto my wagon (2 votes) if amy's fails.

238 and 304 - More evidence that he's actually analysing everyone, something I see as a town-tell. His loss of trust in his Amy read feels natural and Anen wasn't a tempting wagon for scum at that point.

371 - He's showing his scum-Dino read again here. Dino was under (nearly) no suspicion at that point so this whole Dino thing would only really make sense as bussing if Dino and Droog were both scum. That would explain the not actually hard pushing that read.

498 - Pushing Dino slightly. He pushes more over his ext coming posts which I won't comment on.

548 - This feels good.

577 - Finally votes Dino, I really doubt a Dino-Droog team.

583 - I'm starting to fully agree.

652 - This is also a good vote.

I've went through his D2 posts as well but it's consistent with his play so far, he's town.

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Droog

[wgeurts]

Also if this isn't all logical welcome to my thoughts translated in English.

[wgeurts]

Alchemist

11 - RVS vote on Dino.

51 - Looks town motivated at first glance however it is null. I agree with his statements on the RVS votes on me and flubber though.

62 - Odd, doesn't look like a RV. I'll look out for an explanation for this naked vote on me. Still null as this is the first vote on me and he hasn't yet explained it.

88 - It was a pressure vote, still null though. However I do like how he's trying to make discussion.

93 - This makes sense and I feel like it's town with his earlier posts.

177 - This post also feels town although he is mistaken with me being scum and shooting me as vengeful.

209 - Here alchemist is showing doubt on the amy wagon. It also feels slightly town.

233 - Alchemist questions me again on a contradiction of mine. He's not taking others thoughts on me and is pushing me for what he thinks looks scum to him about me. I like that.

272 - Could be scum just going for an easy vote, I'm unsure.

278 and 282 - His reasons for voting Siveure seem more legit than many other people who were/went on the wagon.

334 - This looks odd to me. It just feels off.

General - His push on siv doesn't feel like a scum pushing a mis-lynch. He seemed rather confident in it and it looks like (a possibly conf-biased) town pushing a read their convinced of. I doubt scum would so blatantly push it,


747 - I disagree here and I believe that we should remember this post if Alchemist flips scum for some reason.

758 - Unlikely Dino/Alchemist team?

803 - He's got a good point on Adrien here.

846 - His whole droog-scum read feels town however I disagree with it.

864 - He let that read drop a little quickly.

998 - His points on Flubber are true.

In general alchemist feels town although a lot of his posts feel a little off. He's less town than droog so:

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Alchemist
   
3. Droog

[wgeurts]

Ankimus [s

Hayate[/s]]

Hayate

29 - RV on Flubbernugget

34 - This is an odd one and can be views from two perspectives: Scum trying to look town by joining and investing effort into analysis or town investing effort as a genuine town. I can't tell from this alone.

42 - (S)he seems rather eager to participate in this discussion, same as above.

49 - Seems a little fabricated? Or not? I really don't know.

Hayate gets replaced with ankimus

297 - Two of her scum reads are town and she's defending amy. She scum reads Siv (amy and siv were both at 3 votes). If he flips scum we should seriously consider lynching amy's slot.

311 - Votes siv putting him at 4 votes. His reasons for doing so are really weak however. Slight scum.

366 - Venrob goes from being town to scum in this post. Venrob wasn't being voted at that point so this looks good although it's odd he doesn't change votes.

383 - Really terribly explained Davesaz scum read. Seems fake.

447 - Seems like she's refusing to explain the siv scum read/vote. Possibly because it isn't actually real?

General- He conveniently lurks through Siv's lynch with a vote on him.

878 - Votes me while there are no other votes on me. Seems slightly town motivated.

He's a lot less town then Alchemist but isn't at all as scummy as Flubber so:

1. Flubber
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. Alchemist
   
4. Droog

[wgeurts]

I'll place my vote here for now, this may change:
VOTE: FlubberNugget

[wgeurts]

VictorDeAngblabla replacement of Amy

Amy

40 - mm, odd.
No RV and she straight away attacks Dino with some weird setup spec rant. M'kay.

47 - Apparently you can't form reads 47 posts into a game and it isn't even worth trying. Newb tells here along with 40 so there could be a possible newb scum here.

67 - Actually she could be a newb town, this post fits that theory.

198 - Here we can see that she is an *online* mafia newb. I'll keep that in mind then for her coming posts.

201 - This feels painfully like me in my first newbie game (although I was scum ) I kept summing up why I was being voted and (In my opinion) completely refuting all the arguments posed.

206 - She has a null siv read. I will remember this.

287 - OMGUS on Anenin(eninenan?), doesn't feel like scum to me this post.

General - VLA up till day 2, this sucks as it would of provided a lot of information.

762 - She seems to have read the game due to her comments at the bottom of this post. Why has she dropped her Anen read and why is Dino suddenly scum?
She's blatantly sheeping me and I don't like it. Slightly scummy.

VDA replaces Amy

944 - Good starting catch up. Feels kind of town but I want more posts from him asap.

This slot feels rather null to me, I'm going to await VDA posts and I'll willing pressure him if he doesn't.

1. Flubber
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. VDA
   
4. Alchemist
   
5. Droog

[wgeurts]

Oi, mathdino your online speak to meh

[wgeurts]

beetlejuice beetlejuice

you called?

I'm only half online, doing laundry, playing Civ, checking MS every now and then for your new case.

Anything in particular?

So yer a civ player?

[wgeurts]

Anen*n*n*n

36 - Random vote on Siv.

83 - This catch up seems good and has no bug flaws or the likes. Very slightly town for some odd gut reason.

98 - His case on Amy is actually pretty good for an early game case. It's better than most of the ones up till then at least. However I think he's missing that Amy's a newb.

118 - He is able to quote and explain his case. He does seem rather confident though, this may later cause conf-bias.

156 - Also not a bad post.

182 - It becomes clear he's considered her being a newb.

222 - Can't see why I was scum reading him (I think I was) this is once again a logical post. I'm leaning town on Anenenn from off here.

321 - Could be a post as to get reasons to vote one of the main wagons. I dunno.

352 - Possibly null reading siveure as to set up to vote him.

389 - This is a good post, I think it's town.

529 - Setting himself up to vote basically any of the main suspects.

728 - I don't like this vote at all.

795, 806 and 843 - "Oh Shyt"

891 - Finding it hard to find a scum-motivation for this vote.

Less confident he's town than Alchemist:

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. VDA
   
4. Anen
   
5. Alchemist
   
6. Droog

[wgeurts]

I'm leaning town on him if you read

[wgeurts]

God these smilies suck.

[wgeurts]

Civ v is so much more strategic though than civ 4 in combat, especially by removing the stack of death.

[wgeurts]

The AI however it shit.

[wgeurts]

Romitelli/Formerfish

Romitelli

7 - RV on Anen

General - His other posts feel like busy slight-town.

Formerfish

612 - Actually reading and analysing the game. This is good.

683 - Wants to lynch venrob, however doesn't vote him. Odd.

691 - Votes Alchemist without explanation or indicating he was scum-reading him even when he stated he wanted venrob lynched. With Siv being town this could be him being scum and deciding he want's to bus his partner or stop bussing his partner. It's an odd vote.

731 - Le hammer

General - He seems overly confident on his Venrob read. I don't know what to think of this.

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. VDA
   
4. Formerfish
   
5. Anen
   
6. Alchemist
   
7. Droog

[wgeurts]

I'll skip mathdino and put him as top town:

He's got way too many posts

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. VDA
   
4. Formerfish
   
5. Anen
   
6. Alchemist
   
7. Droog
   
8. Mathdino

[wgeurts]

Won't post the others but my reads from scum at 1 are:

1. Flubbernugget
   
2. Ankimus
   
3. Adrien
   
4. Farside
   
5. GreenCrayon
   
6. Formerfish
   
7. Anen
   
8. Alchemist
   
9. Droog
   
10. Mathdino

Can we lynch one of the top three?
Also although flubber is playing like a shit he's playing as a scummy shit so I'm not PL'ing him.

[wgeurts]

Woop, fixed my laptops internet.
Now, seriously (half-policy):
VOTE: Venrob
I don't see any posts from him, his whole thing looks staged as well.

What was the other half?

I can't remember, I think it was him lying on stuff.

[wgeurts]

Yeah those aren't cases, I can make individual in-depth cases. That was just a load of mental crap that I made as a result of me getting back into this game. If you hadn't realised, your on the town side of my reads and I can explain that if you wish.

[wgeurts]

Why y'all should be voting flubbernugget.

This is not a policy lynch, if someone plays like scum I treat them as scum. I'm not accepting "Too scummy to be scum" or any of that crap. I also believe he does actually care in this game to a certain extent or why the heck is he posting when he's about to get replaced due to his 3 prods?

In 143 he naked votes amy while she's at 4 votes. He disguises it as a pressure vote but that is honestly a horrible excuse. Nothing wrong with that except if he does it with nearly all the main wagons. For instance he then moves onto me (also with 4 votes) in post 251. His reasoning is "I'm going to sheep Dino" which is terrible and therefore I see it as a naked vote. 2 votes, jumped onto wagons once they were well formed and with little to no reasoning. This is scummy, please explain to me how this isn't?
To make matters worse he isn't scum hunting through all of this, his posts are 90% fluff. Anyone else would have been lynched by then, why not him?

Then in post 428 he suddenly declares "siv is scum" without voting him while siv is at 5 votes. He's forgotten about his past reads and they are all literally based of the main wagon at that point in time. He also later hints that he thinks Alchemist is also scum, the 2nd main wagon at that point in time. This is scum play, not policy lynch, this here is down right scum play.

It continues into day 2, take 820 for instance. He votes adrien (making it the leading wagon) without ever having voiced suspicion on him.

His Alchemist vote now just seems like he's trying to pull up his act and look town after his huge amount of scum play.

[wgeurts]

And for all of you that say "he didn't vote siv" he said in one of his posts tht he thought he was unvoting from siv meaning that he intended to do so.

[wgeurts]

Why if you aren't liking a flubber vote it should then be ankimus

He instantly starts with a siv scum read from gut to him being "slimy as hell" in posts 296 and 297. This is a horrible reason and to make matters worse he isn't voting him besides his clear message he's scum (and it was incorrect as Siv pointed out in his post afterwords). The pressure was only starting to build on siv so it would make sense as scum to set up for a vote onto a possible growing wagon but not to join it before you're sure it will actually grow to create as little suspicion on yourself as possible. In 299 he then tries to justify his read (still not voting) by saying "he got that read in the first 1/3 of the game". Well, how convenient, now he doesn't have make up fake reasons. It's a horrible excuse/reason for his siv read, look at them seriously. He does eventually vote in 311 saying it's not naked (in 313) because he had explained it on the last page. Well if I remember correctly the first actual only reason was refuted and the second was "I thought you were scum by reading the first 1/3 of the game and can't find enough town reads to balance it". Basically, he's not explained it so it's a naked vote. The problem is he's trying to justify it is a valid vote where as it isn't.

Around 363 he basically votes venrob for... what he's doing himself. After she had said earlier "this is town venrob" like 2 or 3 pages ago. She also continues to brag how strong his read on siv is in 448, it's still based off thin air and it seems she's avoiding pressuring siv to get answers for her read. She then lurks over to D2 and a siv lynch, wether this is on purpose or not is up for debate.

It's mostly based off how he acted with siv.

[wgeurts]

I'll happily lynch either of these.

[wgeurts]

Yeah those aren't cases, I can make individual in-depth cases. That was just a load of mental crap that I made as a result of me getting back into this game. If you hadn't realised, your on the town side of my reads and I can explain that if you wish.

So as long as you town read me, I should hand wave away the problems I have with your posting right now? Not a fucking chance.

Nope that would be dumb if you did, do you want me to explain why you're town or not? That post was not a case why you were town or not, it's just my brain spaghetti as I was reading everyone's ISO's.

[wgeurts]

Yeah we don't want to be lynching me.

[wgeurts]

Won't be here today due to a christmas party, mabye a phone post though.

[wgeurts]

Yeah we don't want to be lynching me.

VOTE: wgeurts
VOTE: wgeurts
VOTE: wgeurts
VOTE: wgeurts

is that the hammer
lynch this

What's your case on me?
Why do you disagree with my ank and flubber cases?

[wgeurts]

No thoughts on 1046/8

[wgeurts]

Umm, not those spam post analytics, the 2 seperate actual case at the end of the last page.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: Ankimus
Lets lynch the poor replacement.

[wgeurts]

VOTE: ollie
Y'all know what I meant ta do.

[wgeurts]

Why if you aren't liking a flubber vote it should then be ankimus

He instantly starts with a siv scum read from gut to him being "slimy as hell" in posts 296 and 297. This is a horrible reason and to make matters worse he isn't voting him besides his clear message he's scum (and it was incorrect as Siv pointed out in his post afterwords). The pressure was only starting to build on siv so it would make sense as scum to set up for a vote onto a possible growing wagon but not to join it before you're sure it will actually grow to create as little suspicion on yourself as possible. In 299 he then tries to justify his read (still not voting) by saying "he got that read in the first 1/3 of the game". Well, how convenient, now he doesn't have make up fake reasons. It's a horrible excuse/reason for his siv read, look at them seriously. He does eventually vote in 311 saying it's not naked (in 313) because he had explained it on the last page. Well if I remember correctly the first actual only reason was refuted and the second was "I thought you were scum by reading the first 1/3 of the game and can't find enough town reads to balance it". Basically, he's not explained it so it's a naked vote. The problem is he's trying to justify it is a valid vote where as it isn't.

Around 363 he basically votes venrob for... what he's doing himself. After she had said earlier "this is town venrob" like 2 or 3 pages ago. She also continues to brag how strong his read on siv is in 448, it's still based off thin air and it seems she's avoiding pressuring siv to get answers for her read. She then lurks over to D2 and a siv lynch, wether this is on purpose or not is up for debate.

It's mostly based off how he acted with siv.

Why I'm voting ankimus slot.

[wgeurts]

I'm not seeing the VDA case being stronger than the Ankimus, yes his play looks bad if you view it from a certain perspective however anyone who's actually ISO'ed Ank should see that it's scum play. I'm also wondering wether ollies intentionally lurking to loose heat as a replacement so there's that as well, my vote is also a pressure one to get him speaking. Await better posts.

[wgeurts]

The VDA is meeting a lot of resistance, this could mean scum are trying to switch it. If VDA is town it's then likely that the scum are mostly on his wagon and the town are mostly in those votes not on VDA. This also goes vise versa, I'm going to admit I skimmed so I'll reread the lat few pages and check all the cases on VDA, however he's a very good information lynch so I'm tempted to vote him. Ollie vote is still better though.

[wgeurts]

Well flubber and adrien are both looking bad.

[wgeurts]

Who's the highest living draft?

[wgeurts]

Hate to say this but

Mod please replace me

. I have been buisy and don't have the time or energy to read what I've missed. I believe that another more invested player could improve the game an it will contribute more than my now lurking slot.