Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over
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Catching-up.
Druuge, 8, post-editing a random vote is just like la wow! Far Side of the Moon asked the same in 16.
Druuge, 20, Romitelli's vote is pretty much null, trust me, he has damm good reasons for that. ^_^
MathDino's 30: Vigilante is not essentially scum-role. The other three roles are scummy indeed. Also, see my answer for Amy's post below!
I think you've misread the previous games, MathDino, in 32.
Hayate's analysis in 34 seems to be good about the past games. I agree: it's unlikely that they went for doubling a number.
I can add another game which was abandoned: The scums picked Vigilante, Tracker (instead of Jailkeeper) and ? (the third scum was the last player in the draft.)
Amy, 40 – it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility that a town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums. That's also possible.
Mathdino, 41, you're wrong about a Vig. Even if the town decides whom to shoot, the scums can still Roleblock/Jail the Vig and poof, the whole use of that PR is gone.
Amy, 48, and that was off-phased about scums picking numbers. That topic had been discussed ages ago and you posted since that part without mentioning it.
By the way, hi everyone, and hi again for those whom I know from other games! ^_^
Stopped at Page two, we're doing the shopping plus I'm hungry. I'm going on later.
And don't forget our kitty! He's sleeping next to the keyboard which is good, because he's sleeping not NO the keyboard. And everyone knows if I didn't post anything about him that would be scummy.-
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So,
Alchemystique, 51, let's assume that you're saying the truth. According to the site rules I'm not explaining why. Your vote in 62 – why exactly?
Venrob, 52, you're wrong about those semi-high numbers. Don't you remember our abandoned game? Most of the players chose far-out numbers and there were only five players who doubled/multipled up. Right now I have the same draft with 1 as I had there with 14.
Farpointside, 55, agreed, a Day1 Vigshot is not too good unless someone does something blatantly scummy and avoids lynch or there's a player who's detrimental to the game. (Though I, personally, disagree with the latter one for the same reason as I disagree with Policy Lynches.)
MathDino, 63, why is Druuge incredibly town? Why are 37 and 61 so town?
Amy, 65 so, you dislike discussing theories and you've still done that. Hmmmmmm... and in 67 I think you misrepresented Venrob.
Siveure DitTrikijp, 77 oh finally, someone tries to stop that rubbish speculation about the Vigs and I-don't-remember-what's. Good sheep, see below!
MathDino, 85, good idea, stop that discussion. (And if anyone wonders why I discussed about the possible roles in that abandoned game, (1) something important was revealed and (2) I was a Neighbourizer there.)
Davesaz, 86, I understand your concerns, but Feliz (our kitty) arrived to our place 3 weeks ago or so, that'swhy you won't find that joke in earlier games. Post-edit: I can see that you realized the same thing in 96.
By the way, do you want a trust tell? Here it comes!Spoiler:
Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.
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Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.
I wouldn't be surprised if she were a scumVig or a scumVengeful (if she were town, she would stfu about that unless here gameplay were terrible) – or she was going for one of those roles but it was taken by somebody else.
Farside and Mathdino appears to be town. Maybe Davesaz too. Siveure is being Siveure. Venrob is hmmm... I don't know yet and the same goes for Alchemystique.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amy Farrah Fowler-
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In post 100, droog wrote:In post 98, Aneninen wrote:Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.
scum have daytalk
That's true. However, what really disturbed me was eg. her 40. She tried to explained that those roles are not scummy. That may be true – but, she just ignored the possibility that towns could take those roles too just for hindering the scums.-
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Aneninen HeVery Important Pigeon
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Okay, Druuge, here's an Amy-mix.
Spoiler:
In post 108, Alchemist21 wrote:@Ane, I don't understand your sentence responding to my 52, "according to site rules I can't explain why." What were you saying with that statement?
It's not allowed to talk about ongoing games.
Wrong! I was an SK in this game on a non-mafia dedicated site:Spoiler:
The name of the game is: Find the Pigeon!
On the other hand: since two of you are townreading Druuge, I believe you. At least, for now.
In post 114, davesaz wrote:Aneninen, is there any particular reason you mangle people's names? I have found it disconcerting.
F-ck that, 7 out of 10 players are unable to spell my name, sooooooooo, let me have some fun. Period.-
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First of all, is Amy an alt? If so, whose?
In post 140, davesaz wrote:Knowing town's opinions on the subject, along with possibly ferreting out the town roles via the discussion, would help scum choose which role of the pair to claim. Just because scum have daytalk doesn't mean they won't discuss a topic with town in the open.
Like. ^_^
We should remember this when/if Amy flips scum.
In post 151, wgeurts wrote:Anenin,
Is a newb, total of 112 posts and this is her second game. Anenenin knows of this game so he should know she's a newb, his vote was also amazingly convienient. He's sheeped dino and it seems like the general oppinion at that point was against amy. He could of voted in his first catch-up however he waited so that he could see how it would go. When he saw Dino go for it he joined, as scum this is a great position to set yourself up early game.
@An,
Why didn't you vote straight away, why didn't you also factor in her being a noob?
She's either a noob or an alt, right now we don't know the answer for that. Her speculating posts are scummy regardless of her experience level. I know that Day1 reads often lead to mislynches but right now, she's the strongest scumread of mine. By the way, if my case werethatbad, noone would have agreed with it.
Also, whenever I catch up in multiple posts I vote in the last part. You can check my meta for that if you wish, eg. the games I replaced in are perfect examples.
In post 152, Mathdino wrote:I appreciate that I know enough of wgeurts's meta to recognise this. I recognised 'scum found' as something wgeurts said in 574 as scum.
Now, I'm not reading based on a phrase. But this got me to thinking. wgeurts in that game was an extreme tunneler, his confidence in his scumreads being off the charts. Town wgeurts, on the other hand, I've seen as far more careful, uses qualifiers, fencesits a bit and uses slightly wishy-washy wording. I don't like this. I'll get back on the Amy wagon if necessary but I think my vote's better served here.
Well, that "scum found" part was indeed fishy.
However, I'm not convinced right now that Wgeurts is scum. We need more posts from him.-
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@Wgeurts, Davesaz, I really didn't want to be a spoilsport. (In short: mentioning ongoing games is not allowed – sure, those posts don't affect anything in the 98% of the cases but in the rest of the cases they could be detrimental. I'll explain it after this game has ended if needed.)
In post 174, Mathdino wrote:In post 161, wgeurts wrote:Ah, anen responded.
Could you consider the possibility of her being scared as noob with her being vigilante or something. That's my paranoia, if we lynch her she could be a legit town vig. What draft was she again?
Okay, so on one hand, we have legit and somewhat helpful setup spec with regards to what roles scum tend to pick, what to look out for, what the plan is if someone claims vig/vengeful...
and on the other hand, we have wgeurts directly speculating the role of someone based on something they said.
MathDino, you've got a point.
Wgeurts, I posted before that I doubt that Amy would be town-Vig or town-Vengeful. As a noob, she'd hard-claim that or she wouldn't talk about that at all.
In post 175, davesaz wrote:Sorry about that.
Moving right along, is there an actual case against Amy? Or we're shaking the trees to see what falls out? I'm not necessarily against that, but would like to know what the wagon is about.
I posted my case, eg. in 118...
In post 177, Alchemist21 wrote:I'm more concerned with how he attacked Ane for sheeping Dino on Amy, yet Droog openly admitted to sheeping someone on the wagon, and Wgeurts is calling him town. The double standard there doesn't sit well with me.
Hmmm... that's a good question.-
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In post 201, Amy Farrah Fowler wrote:Let me get this clear:
I am being voted because
- My setup speculation was interpreted as scummy behaviour.
- I mentioned my dislike of setup speculation and yet did so.
So, let's discuss the aforementioned points.
Does research prove that scum do what I did much more often than town? I saw a point (by mathdino) and chose to oppose it. I dislike the principle that if one claims a role they are automatically biased towards being scum. I opposed it and I guess I got myself into this.
Regarding the second point, there was hardly anything else I had to talk about. And if you can't beat them then join them. I don't want to lurk about at the start of a game. Am I not allowed to do something I dislike? It's not an 'it's scummy' type of dislike, but more of an 'ehh this is boring' dislike.
(1) I haven't done a research like that but I do know that early-speculations help more the scum than the town.
(2) Noone has told that there are "auto-town" or "auto-scum" roles. What really disturbed me that you were trying to explain the possible town-uses of certain roleswithouteven mentioning that towns may choose PRs that are more beneficial for the scum so as to keep them away off those PRs.
(3) Why do you assume that there were only two possibilities: lurking and talking about the setup? You could have talked about anything else. Here are some examples:
– you could have started analysing others' posts
– you could have asked others why they chose their draft numbers (it happened in the abandoned game I was in)
– or, you could have talked about OTHER PRs too. A I the only one who noticed that there had been a lot of talk about the Vig and the Vengeful while basicly nothing about other PRs?
In post 202, Amy Farrah Fowler wrote:Y'know, it's funny you noticed that. I'm assuming that most games here don't have daytalk, or in any case I didn't know this one did. It usually takes scum to know of something that scum has. Do you play this setup a lot?
It is written on the wiki that scums have daytalk. Anyone can know that and anyone can fake (who hasn't played this setup before) that they don't know that.
Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.
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In post 209, Alchemist21 wrote:
Davesaz's posts look like an attempt to look busy without actually doing anything for the town. He asks plenty of questions to people but has rarely given his own input on matters. His lengthiest posts are about things that really won't go anywhere, like discussing the Kitty comments.
Hmmm... maybe I'll re-check it later. This might be true.
Venrob, 218, okay, you have little time for posting but, have you just dropped by so as to post this nullcontent?
Siv, why do you like Davesaz?-
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In post 223, davesaz wrote:In post 222, Aneninen wrote:
– or, you could have talked about OTHER PRs too. A I the only one who noticed that there had been a lot of talk about the Vig and the Vengeful while basicly nothing about other PRs?
Are you sure about that?
I didn't say that it would have been a good idea. I only said it would have been less scummy if she had done that.-
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Druuge, sorry I don't understand you.
Davesaz, maybe my memories are not correct but there were much more talk about the Vigilante and the Vengeful than everyithing else.
Or most probably I'm dumb now after drinking some wine which I must do every evening I get drowsy and I know I shouldn'T post anything. Sorry for being even more idiotique than I usually am olololololololol!-
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In post 236, droog wrote:In post 222, Aneninen wrote:Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.
amy admitted such
In post 206, Amy Farrah Fowler wrote:While I can be assed to do this, let's make a small reads list,right now of the people who have posted within the last houras of typing this line up.
Even if it was not random, the reason for choosing those players is still a WTF.
In post 238, droog wrote:
i honestly dont know what
something about how each of these responses is agreeable
to the person anem's responding to
I'm doing that plenty of times.
(1) I mark posts because I agree with them and I don't want to parrot the same content
(2) I mark posts because someone has pointed out something which I skimmed over before
(3) I mark posts which doesn't seem to be too relevant in that certain gamestate but might be important later
In post 239, Amy Farrah Fowler wrote:
(1) Right. Other people were speculating too, and I didn't know about what helps who. Speculation seems pretty neutral to me.
(2) The town choice thing didn't occur to me. This is the first time I'm playing this setup, so I don't really know the current meta regarding this. I just went with what was in my head at the time.
(3) Analysing people's posts - and say what about them. I had nothing to say at that point.
(4) Asking others - why? I don't see the point.
(5) Talk about other PRs - and have you or someone else accuse me of rolefishing or whatever they'd feel like calling me out on? Mathdino talked about the vig and the vengeful, so I decided to discuss that and say what I thought of them. I didn't just randomly pick roles out and talk about them y'know.
(6) I don't typically read the full wiki page of each setup I play so it didn't occur to me that the scum talk differed from the norm. Say what you want about that.
(7) My readslist was about recent posters as of when I started typing up because long reads lists are boring to write and even more boring to read. I didn't pluck out random people, so read the full post before calling me out.
(8) And if you say that setup spec helps scum more than town then call mathdino out if you're looking for someone who talked about the setup.
(More numbers has been added by me)
(1) You might think so, but early-speculation helps the scum more, in most cases.
(2) That may or may not be true.
(3) Uhh, I didn't like that. Analysing others' posts is a cornerstone of scumhunting. This means, you're not scumhunting.
(4) Why? To make things clear that you don't understand or concerns you. Again, this means you're not scumhunting.
(5) I didn't say that talking about other PRs would have been a good idea but it was strange that you had been talking only about those particular PRs.
(6) Regardless of your alignment, it's useful to read everything about the setup. Well, you know... it helps scumhunting.
(7) Everyone knows that I'm far not the best player as it comes to producing short posts. Still, many players are able to write short playerlists and neither making them, nor reading them is boring. Producing and reading readlists help the flights of those cute little Painted Ladies (Vanessa carduiand whenever you post a readlist a Night Fairy smiles. Also, it helps scumhunting.
(8) It is a thing done by MathDino but so far he has done nothing else which has been scummy.
TL;DR version: Amy is not scumhunting at all.
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Hi there, AdrienC !-
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UNVOTE:
What if that was a town-flail from Amy?
I looked into the chat and I don't understand clearly:
– Why is the Wgeurts wagon?
– Why is the Siveure wagon?
Alchemystique, your reasoning in your pervious post is pigeon poop. Yeah, he's the 4th in the Draft. If he's scum, he must have a PR but this is also true if he's town. By the way, aren't you the first one in the draft? I don't understand this reasoning coming from that slot at all!-
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Well.
That's the third wagon emerging very quickly. Someone (who has more time than me) should examine who the players were on all of these wagons, I mean Amy, Wgeurts and now Siveure.
@Siveure. You posted that you're vanilla. If you told which role had you gone for, would it help the town more than the scum? If so, please tell us the role you wanted to get!-
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I have very little time so I haven't read everything thoroughly, but here are a couple of things.
Druuge, calling me scum because you think Amy is town and because you like her responds is bad logic. We can simply misread each other, that's very common, especially on Day1. By the way, I'm not voting for her right now.
Mathdino, I haven't fully understood your 344. Maybe you missed my thoughts there...? As I said, I have very little time to post, that'swhy I'm on LA.
Siveure, what kind of credit are you talking about? I'm nullreading you. Your gameplay is the same as it was in the abandoned Pick Your Power game, where we met. Nevertheless, I'm going to search for that crumb later.
I think Siveure is an "investigation magnet".-
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Okay, having a little time I try to do something useful.
@Siveure. Who asked the question you answered the crumb for and where?
In post 370, droog wrote:
rereading this i have no idea what you mean
amy proposes that certain roles aren't scummy choices
to which you object because... town could choose those not-scummy roles?
No, Druuge.
Some of the roles are indeed more beneficial to the scum but they may be useful for a townie as well. Amy pointed that out. However, townies could choose a scummy role like Vig to keep the scums off them and Amy never mentioned it. Those two thingstogetherare scummy, in my opinion. (Check it out, I posted the same a couple of times before.)
Mathdino, 375 – okay, I'm telling you something. Believe me or not, I picked 1 because I thought that the scums would go for that number too. Before Open567 (which was abandoned) I checked all the previous drafts and I have a paper with the numbers, players, roles etc. near my computer. (Next to the E.B.O.N.Y. NewLevels pages lololol.) However, in 567 the scums picked 4, 9 and 12 and I strongly suspected that they might pick smaller numbers this time and I was scared that no townie would be a "scapegoat" to pick 1 and intentionally get a bad draft because of that. On the other hand I'm surprised that 4 won and all of the small numbers were doubled and I ended up 6th.
In post 385, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Also if by some miracle the doc is town, the best move for scum is probably to nightkill below me in the draft.
WHUT?-
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Also, let's see those wagons.
+ = the player was/is on that particular wagon
– = the player was/is away
0 = that player was/is wagoned
The order of the signs: Amy, Wgeurts, Siveure. Draft is in brackets.
Alchemist21 (4) : – + +
davesaz (6) : – + +
Ankamius (8) : – – +
Siveure DtTrikyp (13) : + + 0
Venrob (15) : – – +
Aneninen (1) : + – –
Romitelli (1) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
Amy Farrah Fowler (3) : 0 – –
farside22 (3) : – – –
Mathdino (5) : + + +
wgeurts (5) : – 0 +
Flubbernugget (2) : + + –
Adrien C (2) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
droog (2) : + – –
This might tell us a couple of things.
First of all, I may be wrong about Amy. If she were scum she could have jumped on any of the wagons to save her a$$. That didn't happen.
If Siveure is scum (note that he was on both wagons) we should pay attention to Flubber too who was on the first two wagons.
Farside may be town, she was uninterested in all of the wagons. Unsure about Romitelli and AdrienC because of too little content.
Alchemystique and Davesaz were doing the same. Mathdino is the only player who was on all of the wagons, though if my memories are correct he had left the Amy-wagon before it started to dissolve. I'm not sure what to think about this phenomenon (away from Amy, on for Wgeurts and Siveure) but there might be at least one but maximum two scums among these three players if Siveure flips town. Although, I must admit that this pattern might be a coincidence too.
Another interesting thing: there were no players who were on both the Amy and Siveure wagons but away from the Wgeurts wagon. I don't know whether it is significant.
Post-edit: Romitelli is auto-FoS in my eyes because of his draft but I apart from that he's null: mere 6 posts and 4 of those are contentless. And I don't have problems with funny names, I'm using some on others too. ^_^-
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Mini-answer.
Wgeurts, I noted your question and I try to take a quick look at everyone.
Venrob.Less content than it appears. Focuses on too few players. Unsorted–lean scum.
MathDino.What an amount of effort is made by him! He's examining everything, pays attention to everyone and tries to lead the town. I would say that he's probably town... but I've got a bad intuition about him. If he's scum he won't be the first one who falls, I'm sure. I don't think he's be a good lynch Today anyway so let's see how the game goes on later. Probably town (logic) / probably scum (weak intuition plus he has been on all of the three wagons so far).
Siveure.Am I the only one who thinks that his crumb which was:"Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant."– could mean anything? That "Yes" or "No" is a possible answer for many things. He said that he would lurk until the wagon would disappear (425) but it hasn't happened. Worried about the stall of the game in 480 and that didn't happen in the abandoned game I met him. I didn't like 503 either, Doccouldbe chosen by the first three players in the draft. Lean scum–probably scum.
Davesaz.Null, and I'm not talking about him for the same reason as he's not talking about me. Sorry.
Amy.My former scumread. But, her later posts may have been town-flails and "mirror-scumreading" someone is more likely a newbtown-tell than a scum-tell. Therefore, lean town. (We should keep in mind that the scums have daytalk and she may have been coached there if she's scum.)
Druuge.Multiple issues. If Amy happens to be scum, he must have done a Chainsaw. In his opinion I was tunnelling Amy yet he has been doing the same to me, also thinks that I'm a good "compromise lynch" in 467, which is weird. Also, a couple of disturbing things like "'your argument is bad but you're still probably town' is a classic scum defense" in 498, I'm sure that the thing he asked in 370 had already been explained by me before... however, there are caveats, like: he posted something similar in 371 that I did above. Plus, he's been away from most wagons. Lean scum.
Alchemiss.Something is fishy here. By ISO-ing I can see less content than I remembered. 308 and nearby is strange (why is it a problem that Siveure has a townread on Dave?), 315 is very strange in its context. He has been on 2 of the major wagons. Lean scum.
Ankamius.Less content than it appears and there are no new things appearing in his reads. Unsorted–lean scum
Farside.I had a townread on her before and it hasn't changed. Probably town.
AdrienC.Very little content and he's posting about very few things. Unsorted.
FlubberNugget.I've seen the same Flubber in the abandoned game with the same setup. I kept scumreading him there as far as I can remember and it turned out the he was town. Therefore, lean town. (His vote-moving is a thing we should remember later, although.)
Romitelli.Null in itself (although, picking 1 is an Auto-FoS, as I posted that before). What is more interesting in him is the fact that some of the players featured him in their Top3 list, as far as I can remember, Alchemist, Siveure, Ankamius... maybe someone should summarize those scumreads, shouldn't they?post-edit...it's especially interesting because he's leaving the game now!
Wgeurts.I still can't see too many scummy things here. Probably town.
________
So, my strongest scumread is Siveure, the next one may be Alchemiss and Druuge. Although – wow, I'm fence-sitting now! ^_^ – there are caveats against all of these reads. Siveure's wagon had been developing very quickly and stopped afterwards. Why didn't the scums started a viable counter-wagon? As for Alchemist, first of all, call me an idiot but I wouldn't lynch the 1st one in the draft unless I had very strong evidences. Druuge is a possibility but see above, there are town-things in his posts too.
Maybe I should pay more attention to my "second three" list: Venrob, MathDino, Ankamius.
But, later – I'm still short on time. (This latest bit can also mean that I'm a subject of misreading and missing things right now. Too much work, that's what I have.)-
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Small catching up, don't expect too much after 12 hours of work.
Some player says that I'm performing IIoA. Where exactly?
Druuge. I appreciate that you're spending that much time with scumhunting and I like it anyway. However, here are a few answers for you. In 559 you were talking about my 83. Do you really think that I should have provided firm reads in such an early post? The same goes for your next post, which is also about an early post from me.
Also, you should think about this: therewasa reason for sheeping my Amy-case. At that point you thought that it was okay and you find it terrible now. What changed and why?
As for your 573, I still don't understand the logic behind that readlist. Even if my read on Amy changed later I still find that strange, even if it's not essentially scummy.
579 – okay, what sort of conclusion can you draw out of all those wagon movements? You told me that you didn't agree, that'swhy I ask.
586 – there were other things there about you. However, my reads are changing, right now you're in the "I don't know what to think" cathegory.
587 – you interpreted my unsorted and unsorted–lean scum reads as scumreads. If you're doing this, sure there are too many scumreads there. Also, you skipped the very last part of my post: "I'm still short on time. (This latest bit can also mean that I'm a subject of misreading and missing things right now. Too much work, that's what I have.)"
TL;DR: you're searching for the scum at the wrong slot. I'm not one of them.
Siveure. The post where you voted for me contains nothing about me. So, in practice, it's a naked vote.
MathDino. I still don't understand clearly the logic behind the scumlists regarding of Siveure's flip.
Formerfish. Hi there! You needn't like my posting style. Especially since during your catch-up you'll find that it gets worse later. ^_^
That's all for now, folks! Maybe I'll have some time next evening too.-
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For your information: I'm town. Read my posts again given that piece of information. I had made up a plan before the game started and my plan shall be done. Period. I revealed a part of it in 387.-
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I didn't crumb, but I explained something.
In post 83, Aneninen wrote:Amy, 40 – it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility thata town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums.That's also possible.
THIS.
And I'm not telling which one.
Why? Because, check out the scummiest roles! It's possible that Mislynching me is risky, it's possible that Nightkilling me is risky, and it's possible that I'm not THAT useful for the town and it would be better if the scum tried to find another PR to get rid of. WIFOM – against the scums!
Because, f-ck scums all over the board, that'swhy. I picked 1 so as not to let anyome get the scummiest number for free. I picked a scum-benefit-PR for the town because now the scums don't have it. Can they rule out some of the possible PRs? Maybe... But, how can they act without giving away information about their own PRs? TROLOLOLOLOLOL!-
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I was thinking before whether I would answer those questions if they happened to appear. But I strongly think that those pieces of information would help the scums more. (Eg. what if I misread someone and name them as a Vengeance-target?) Also, there are a couple of other PRs that I can have.
I'm not voting right now for a similar reason: I want to see how certain players react to my previous post. Remember, at least I know that the scums can't have a certain PR-pair and that IS a piece of valuable information too.-
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The problem is that we're running out of time.
As I said before I'd been waiting for certain players' reactions and most of them arrived. Some of the answers were more town-ish, some were somewhat scummy but one of the responds stood out as a blatantly scummy one. It's a pity that we have no time to lynch that player right now.
Alchemiss is a too risky lynch, I think. If he's town-PR he'll claim in the very last moment and it's possible that we'll unable to set up another lynch.
To tell the truth, Siveure is far not my strongest scumread. BUT, his gameplay makes pretty much sense if he's scum with someone else.
Even if my reads might be screwed-up, because (1) there are players who has hardly been posting anything useful and (2) I've had a very busy IRL-period, apart from the player I mentioned above, there is someone who's a constant possibility. And of course, I have townreads too. What do I mean by all of these these? As for the two scummy players, someone was pretty familiar with schoolings, while someone else was never to see tigers and polar bears. On the other hand, there is someone whom ik vind leuk, someone else has already got used to hearing knocks on the door and his/her name in turns. The third townread can never appear between The World and The Fool.
So,
VOTE: Siveure-
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Finally, I'm here.
Right now I'm not speculating about the Nightkill, it's a WIFOM at bestin itself. Let's see, what else we have.
Spoiler: Catch-up
Conclusions. (TL;DR part)
Wgeurts – probably town and I'm not allowed to explain it because of the site rules.
Ankamius – did a little meta. Because of that, lean town. (I'd really appreciate a scumgame-link of yours, Ankamius, though.)
Alchemystique – unsure, but not a good lynch because of his draft.
Druuge – a possible scum partner of Formerfish and lean scum in itself too.
MathDino – the drop of his activity concerns me. Another unsorted player.
Formerfish – probably scum and check my spoiler for it.
Adrien C – my main problem is this: there were much more contentabouthim thanmade byhim. His reactions are not scummy either. Because of these, lean town.
Amy – no change, lean town, but let's see her replacement later.
Venrob – poor gameplay and I think he's a low hanging fruit for the scum. That'swhy lean town.
Farside – I'd be very surprised if she were scum. Probably town.
Flubber – lean town, see above!
Therefore,
VOTE: Formerfish
I know that I have only 2 scumreads. The third one may be either of the unsorted players or seriously misread by me.-
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(0) Hi there!
(1) Siv was mislynched. He had claimed VT before and also told that he had gone for Doc but it had been taken before him.
(2) The counterwagons were Alchemist and me. My soft-claim was 679.
(3) Davesaz got Nightkilled, flipped Jailkeeper.
(4) AdrienC and Venrob are the main suspects right now. (Maybe Wgeurts too?)
(5) Your slot was scumread by some of us, mostly by me, at the beginning of Day1. The case was dropped, I don't think anyone's scumreading your slot right now.
(6) The players are active in general, or at least, there are some active players all the time. Although, the activity of "particular players" is fluctuating.
Everyone, have I missed something important?-
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In post 927, Alchemist21 wrote:
Who are the "particular players" and wy did you choose to put emphasis on that term?
Maybe I used the wrong words. I wanted to mean that at least a couple of players are active whenever you take a look at the thread, but you'll find different players active. Eg. right now I try to be active but, apart from this day (15. 12. or so) I've done shyt on Day2. The same pattern fits for many other players.
(Meanwhile, our kitty wants to play as well. Hey, Feliz, who's scum?)
MathDino, your Amy/Victor read is a thing which I don't understand. Victor's way to catch-up is not too effective indeed, but (I know it's an off-tell), would Amy replace out when he had been townread by almost all of us, including her "arch-enemy", me?
Formerfish. I still don't think that you're town but, as far as I can see, I'm on a vanity wagon. As usual. F-ck. I'm always on a vanity wagon. And I'm drunk. (And not because of that rubbish wine, this time. Double-f-ck. Needs to work tomorrow.)
UNVOTE:-
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So, let's see what happens in Pepperland nowadays.
(1) MathDino's analysis, 962 – nice colors and plenty of information. What work and what a pity that it doesn't tells me anything right now.
(2) Venrob asks for replacement. Gives hints for the forthcoming replacement. Is it important? Maybe after a scumflip that might tell us something about the Venrob slot, or about Wgeurts or MathDino.
(3) Green Crayons claims VT in 985. Should I buy that? He's the 5th on the draft list and Siv was VT... weird... Also, I don't know why GC was so town for MathDino in 988. Before the claim, though, I hadn't find that slot scummy (as far as I can remember). But somehow that VT claim gave me bad feelings.
(4) Also, it's a hmm-hmmm that MathDino's scumreads are (apart from Wgeurts) in the early-draft section. MathDino, can you explain the "reaction test" on GC you mention in 1003? I must have missed it.
(5) Alchemist's 992 is either an interesting theory or a WIFOM.
(6) And there come those Wgeurts-walls. I haven't seen such Wgeurts-posts before. Also, no analysis on MathDino and GreenCrayon? Hey-hey-hey...! 1046:"Why y'all should be voting flubbernugget."– right after those walls? (And another post about Ankamius.) That is over-explaining, in my opinion and gives me scumvibes.
(7) Formerfish, 1057 ..."explore" Wgeurts with that vote? Why "explore"? Why not "I'm scumreading" or not voting for him at all? "Exploring" on Day2 is weird at best.
(8) Alchemist, 1065,"This is the most we've gotten from Flubbernugget all game."– I can confirm this.
(9) Wgeurts, 1069 and next posts – Uhhhh, I think I need to re-calibrate my scum-o-meter, these have just given an overdriven square-wave.
(10) GreenCrayons, 1098, how can Wgeurts's Day2 be null? The other reads are vague and/or weirdly-weighted too. Eg. 5 rows (on my screen) on VDA, 4 on Formerfish and 1–1 rows on many players? (More about the latter players later, I've found that post.) Also, the two major scumreads are in the early-draft and yet he thinks it would be bad if he knew/posted about the role Venrob applied for.................... Also, votes for Ankamius, who is under replacement. La wow!
(11) Druuge also votes for Ankamius, who's under replacement. Hmmm... And Mathdino too... Also Wgeurts... Now I really think that this wagon is emerging in an unnatural way!
(12) MathDino launches the VDA wagon. Does anyone have a meta on VDA anyway? FormerFish joines with little-to-no content. Alchemist is next... wow! I don't know what to think... partly because VDA's 1156 seems to be format-broken. His later posts are ugh, anyway. Especially that vote for Ollie. (As far as I can see, Wgeurts is not on this wagon, we should remember this.)
________
Somehow I've got a feeling that one of the most active players (who is actually forming the atmosphere) is scum. I'm getting less sure about everything, even if I hate when this happens, I must admit it.
Also, those quick wagons are strange too.
Wgeurts –probably townchanged to scum because of the unusual posts plus the reasons above.
AnkamiusOllie – lean town. No change.
Alchemystique – unsure, but lean town now.
Druuge – a possible scum partner of Formerfish – change: if Formerfish is scum at all.
MathDino – Unsorted, seems to be obv-town but can be shrewd scum too, not a good lynch now, I suppose.
Formerfish –probably scumI'm less confident about this.
Adrien C – lean town. No change.
AmyVDA – unsure... I don't like his posts but can someone summarize the case?
VenrobGreenCrayons –That'swhy lean town.Lean scum right now and I don't trust him at all. Why are you (almost) all townread him?
Farside – Probably town. No change.
Flubber – lean town, no change.
VOTE: Wgeurts
And now I have more time for playing so I can play quicker.-
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In post 1183, Mathdino wrote:
3. He's provably VT, if he's not a VT he's just a mafia goon. If he's lying then a massclaim will bury him.
4. My scumreads are also in Amy, don't think she's in early draft section. Also I want to note that scum are more likely to be in the early drafts due to not picking the same draft number. I think one of the scum picked a late number (like 8) to guarantee at least one scum PR and the others went early.
7. Exploration is not scummy, this is town.
11. The wagon's like that because we're nearing the deadline and I got the deadline frozen. The idea is to pressure the replacement and get votes on him before the deadline thawed.
12. I've played with scum Victor, as has wgeurts. Scum-him has a high tendency of throwing out questions that show why things are "noteworthy" but somehow not "scummy", which basically turn the questions into pointless mudslinging that exists to appear engaged. I can link you in a sec if you want.
The funny thing is, the reason I was originally scumreading Amy was because she was acting like Victor in that game. Now Victor replaces in and acts just like himself.
3. He's(GC – edited by me)provably VT, if he's not a VT he's just a mafia goon. If he's lying then a massclaim will bury him.
4. My scumreads are also in Amy, don't think she's in early draft section. Also I want to note that scum are more likely to be in the early drafts due to not picking the same draft number. I think one of the scum picked a late number (like 8) to guarantee at least one scum PR and the others went early.
7. Exploration is not scummy, this is town. (about FormerFish)
11. The wagon's like that because we're nearing the deadline and I got the deadline frozen. The idea is to pressure the replacement and get votes on him before the deadline thawed.
12. I've played with scum Victor, as has wgeurts. Scum-him has a high tendency of throwing out questions that show why things are "noteworthy" but somehow not "scummy", which basically turn the questions into pointless mudslinging that exists to appear engaged. I can link you in a sec if you want.
The funny thing is, the reason I was originally scumreading Amy was because she was acting like Victor in that game. Now Victor replaces in and acts just like himself.[/quote]
3. GC may or may not be a VT, however, if not, I can't see why he must be a Mafia Goon.
4. You're right, that read changed after I had written that part.
7. That's not town. Null at best, I've already seen scums doing that kind of "exploration".
11. And I'm going to examine these wagons soon. Something is fishy about them and not former-fishy, it's fishy right now. ^_^
12. Can you?
In post 1184, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
137(New numbers have been added so as not to confuse my replies with the other answers)- Yeah well everyone had some sort of suspicion of Amy and since I know she was town I don't get really get why people were suspicious. Nothing stood out her posts nor were any the cases really valid. If it takes my flip to shine a light a few people then maybe I am the best lynch.
255- Jesus, I can't do anything right. Honestly I'm regretting replacing in this game. If you don't like the way I caught that I couldn't care less.
In post 1183, Mathdino wrote:
Premature claim and his reaction to droog are both unlike scum. Furthermore droog was at the very very bottom of the draft order and couldn't even be a cop, but he believed it anyway, which furthers my belief that he hadn't read the thread at that point.
888So what. Scum have daytalk. It's perfectly reasonable to believe he simply asked his scumbuddies if he was confscum and one said no just claim vt.
Gambits like this are generally worthless in games with daytalk.
(137) The first part is simply not true. Relatively very few players had scumread Amy before her wagon dissolved. In the end I, who had been scumreading her for the longest time, was accused of tunnelling. The other part is false as well. Your lynch gives very little information about other slots, compared to other possibilities, in my opinion.
(255) I don't like this at all. You know, as a town, I'm usually really annoyed at people who are playing the "Regardless of Card" on me all the time. (That means: scumreading me regardless of the content I provide.) But, what I really don't like in this post is that your slot HAD NOT BEEN scumread before you arrived. You're trying to say that you've just replaced into a terrible slot, which is not true (see 137). You're misrepresenting the events.
(888) That is true, but GC's alignment has nothing to do with your alignment (unless I'm seriously misreading the game).
________
I know it's a mere intuition but the distribution of the PRs may be really weird. Either some of the "logical" PRs are missing or some of the typically early-draft PRs are in the late-draft section.
If so, it's possible that all the scums are in the mid- or late-draft part and maybe they don't have a useful PR at all. Moreover, it's likely that the early-draft part contains only one scum.-
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In post 1189, VictorDeAngelo wrote:In post 1188, Aneninen wrote:There is a distribution which, if it's true, explains many things. I really hope that I'm right about it. Because, in that case, if a certain person plays it well, the game is technically broken.
What the fuck does this mean?
You needn't care.
"It gives information about people who pushing my lynch (in particular those who claiming to have meta reads on me)."– You must have realized that many of us have been talking about possible scum combinations and "rule-outs". Your slot has no connections like that. Also, as far as I can see, players disagreeing in many things anyway are willing to vote for you.
"Really cause when I read through I saw a lot of people scumreading Amy Day 1."– EARLY Day1, and the third of the players at most. Later your slot had been FoS-ed at maximum before you arrived.
"all I've done is replace in and try to get caught in long, frankly uninteresting game, and people have given me shit about the way I caught up."– This game is everything but "uninteresting". Also, noone scumreads you because of the WAY of your catchup, but because of the CONTENT of it. In addition, I myself had been hesitant until I realized that you were and are misrepresenting almost everything.
"Your right it doesn't. Am I only allowed to talk stuff related to my alignment now?"– noone has told you that! I pointed out that your statement was right in general but it had nothing to do with your alignment.-
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Aneninen HeVery Important PigeonHe
- Very Important Pigeon
- Very Important Pigeon
- Posts: 5684
- Joined: June 9, 2014
- Pronoun: He
- Location: Lost in E.B.O.N.Y.
Ollie, 1237 – This post is amongst those which will be to be remembered later when we have more flips.
Wgeurts, 1240 – I don'T think Ollie is lurking.
VDA, 1250 – How on Gods' Green Earth can Alchemist and me nulls?! Also,"I find it telling you didn't annouce it as L-1. Hoping for a derp hammer perhaps?"– whutkindofbullshyt was that? Anyone who considers themselves a minimally sentient organism checks the Vote Count before voting for a major wagon. Aaaand, that"There goes the Farside townread."was simply lololol!
Farside, 1282"I have two different scum groups vda."– and I bet you don't want to elaborate it right now. You're not the only one who has "pocked scumreads". I'm too thinking about two different scenarios and VDA fits both...
MathDino, 1263"Alternatively, both Ollie and Victor are town and scum doesn't particularly care either way but wants to stick to one to be consistent."– I too find Victor scummy. However, if and when he flips town, we all should examine those who were on both wagons and/or who were scumreading both of them.-
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Aneninen HeVery Important PigeonHe
- Very Important Pigeon
- Very Important Pigeon
- Posts: 5684
- Joined: June 9, 2014
- Pronoun: He
- Location: Lost in E.B.O.N.Y.