Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[Aneninen]

Hi everyone, I haven't read anything yet in this thread but I know that I'm right, everyone else is wrong and this parrot is dead.

VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp

Because he wants to evade votes by having a name like that but that won't work against me and you pretty much know it.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

Druuge, 8, post-editing a random vote is just like la wow! Far Side of the Moon asked the same in 16.
Druuge, 20, Romitelli's vote is pretty much null, trust me, he has damm good reasons for that. ^_^
MathDino's 30: Vigilante is not essentially scum-role. The other three roles are scummy indeed. Also, see my answer for Amy's post below!
I think you've misread the previous games, MathDino, in 32.
Hayate's analysis in 34 seems to be good about the past games. I agree: it's unlikely that they went for doubling a number.
I can add another game which was abandoned: The scums picked Vigilante, Tracker (instead of Jailkeeper) and ? (the third scum was the last player in the draft.)
Amy, 40 – it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility that a town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums. That's also possible.
Mathdino, 41, you're wrong about a Vig. Even if the town decides whom to shoot, the scums can still Roleblock/Jail the Vig and poof, the whole use of that PR is gone.
Amy, 48, and that was off-phased about scums picking numbers. That topic had been discussed ages ago and you posted since that part without mentioning it.

By the way, hi everyone, and hi again for those whom I know from other games! ^_^

Stopped at Page two, we're doing the shopping plus I'm hungry. I'm going on later.
And don't forget our kitty! He's sleeping next to the keyboard which is good, because he's sleeping not NO the keyboard. And everyone knows if I didn't post anything about him that would be scummy.

[Aneninen]

So,

Alchemystique, 51, let's assume that you're saying the truth. According to the site rules I'm not explaining why. Your vote in 62 – why exactly?
Venrob, 52, you're wrong about those semi-high numbers. Don't you remember our abandoned game? Most of the players chose far-out numbers and there were only five players who doubled/multipled up. Right now I have the same draft with 1 as I had there with 14.
Far

point

side, 55, agreed, a Day1 Vigshot is not too good unless someone does something blatantly scummy and avoids lynch or there's a player who's detrimental to the game. (Though I, personally, disagree with the latter one for the same reason as I disagree with Policy Lynches.)
MathDino, 63, why is Druuge incredibly town? Why are 37 and 61 so town?
Amy, 65 so, you dislike discussing theories and you've still done that. Hmmmmmm... and in 67 I think you misrepresented Venrob.
Siveure DitTrikijp, 77 oh finally, someone tries to stop that rubbish speculation about the Vigs and I-don't-remember-what's. Good sheep, see below!
MathDino, 85, good idea, stop that discussion. (And if anyone wonders why I discussed about the possible roles in that abandoned game, (1) something important was revealed and (2) I was a Neighbourizer there.)
Davesaz, 86, I understand your concerns, but Feliz (our kitty) arrived to our place 3 weeks ago or so, that'swhy you won't find that joke in earlier games. Post-edit: I can see that you realized the same thing in 96.
By the way, do you want a trust tell? Here it comes!

Spoiler:

You Have Been Pigeoned!

Hint: you can see this pigeon ONLY IF I'm town, OR if I'm scum. Trust me, this tell works all the time![/img]

Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.

________

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.
I wouldn't be surprised if she were a scumVig or a scumVengeful (if she were town, she would stfu about that unless here gameplay were terrible) – or she was going for one of those roles but it was taken by somebody else.
Farside and Mathdino appears to be town. Maybe Davesaz too. Siveure is being Siveure. Venrob is hmmm... I don't know yet and the same goes for Alchemystique.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amy Farrah Fowler

[Aneninen]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

scum have daytalk

That's true. However, what really disturbed me was eg. her 40. She tried to explained that those roles are not scummy. That may be true – but, she just ignored the possibility that towns could take those roles too just for hindering the scums.

[Aneninen]

I disagree with your MathDino-read.

[Aneninen]

I don't think he's scum, eg. because of his 85, I think his intent to stop the Vig-conversation was genuine.

[Aneninen]

Okay, Druuge, here's an Amy-mix.

Spoiler:

Mathdino, why are you so sure of vig/pgo/vengeful roles being taken by scum? And if someone claimed one of those later on in the game would you be more inclined to lynch them? Surely vig and vengeful would help town by eliminating scum/idiots. And PGO... I guess it depends on who picks that, but it's a potentially useful role. The opposite is obviously beneficial to scum, but they're not exclusively scum roles.

If you're scum then this is a nice way early on to start lining up mislynches for later on in the game.

Why is she telling that? Does she have any of those PRs? Does she know who's the Vig and/or the Vengeful because she's scum? I can see no reasons for a townie making a post like that. If she's town-Vig/Vengeful (most probably Vengeful, it's unlikely that she has the Vig-PR as being 8th in the draft) she should not talk about that at all. Or at least I would do so.

I'm not throwing out reasons to be suspicious. While I dislike theory debates, they're pretty null to me. And I can throw out statements without said statement automatically being attached to a read going one way or the other. It doesn't signify a lack of conviction. I'm not going to make a non-RVS vote for someone for one post.

She was involved in those "theory debates", at least twice in four posts (the other one was 48) yet she wrote that she dislikes them. Also, she had no RVS and it's not entirely typical to performe an RVS on page 2. I know it's very minor but what if she doesn't want to get "enemies"? What's that "I'm not throwing out reasons to be suspicious" part?

Did I miss someone asking for your scum history or are you just throwing this out here?
Because if this is out of the blue then saying 'I'm always scumread' is sure a great way to get people off your back for a while.

Posting a history is null in itself. I don't think Venrob did so to suggest that he's always scumread. She's trying to make a case out of nothing here. She tries to defend her "case" in 71 and 74 without voting. Yet again, trying to stay out of trouble...?

Edit: Okay, so what was the point of that statement I quoted?

If you're scum then this is a nice way early on to start lining up mislynches for later on in the game.

It's a statement, not an accusation. Don't know if you've noticed, but there's an if up there.
It's me thinking out loud. If you are scum then this is why you'd have posted that.

Appeasing Mathdino (maybe) and making an excuse for forthcoming scummy posts (perhaps) as for the "It's me thinking out loud" part.

@Ane, I don't understand your sentence responding to my 52, "according to site rules I can't explain why." What were you saying with that statement?

It's not allowed to talk about ongoing games.

On the trust tell... I think this guy's not a serial killer, everyone.

Wrong! I was an SK in this game on a non-mafia dedicated site:

Spoiler:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/foru ... zawadx/84/

The name of the game is: Find the Pigeon!
On the other hand: since two of you are townreading Druuge, I believe you. At least, for now.

Aneninen, is there any particular reason you mangle people's names? I have found it disconcerting.

F-ck that, 7 out of 10 players are unable to spell my name, sooooooooo, let me have some fun. Period.

[Aneninen]

Huh?

[Aneninen]

Ongoing game.

[Aneninen]

First of all, is Amy an alt? If so, whose?

Knowing town's opinions on the subject, along with possibly ferreting out the town roles via the discussion, would help scum choose which role of the pair to claim. Just because scum have daytalk doesn't mean they won't discuss a topic with town in the open.

Like. ^_^

I am not confident enough in this wagon.
If it hits l-1 I will Unvote. O

We should remember this when/if Amy flips scum.

Anenin,
Is a newb, total of 112 posts and this is her second game. Anenenin knows of this game so he should know she's a newb, his vote was also amazingly convienient. He's sheeped dino and it seems like the general oppinion at that point was against amy. He could of voted in his first catch-up however he waited so that he could see how it would go. When he saw Dino go for it he joined, as scum this is a great position to set yourself up early game.
@An,
Why didn't you vote straight away, why didn't you also factor in her being a noob?

She's either a noob or an alt, right now we don't know the answer for that. Her speculating posts are scummy regardless of her experience level. I know that Day1 reads often lead to mislynches but right now, she's the strongest scumread of mine. By the way, if my case were

that

bad, noone would have agreed with it.
Also, whenever I catch up in multiple posts I vote in the last part. You can check my meta for that if you wish, eg. the games I replaced in are perfect examples.

I appreciate that I know enough of wgeurts's meta to recognise this. I recognised 'scum found' as something wgeurts said in 574 as scum.

Now, I'm not reading based on a phrase. But this got me to thinking. wgeurts in that game was an extreme tunneler, his confidence in his scumreads being off the charts. Town wgeurts, on the other hand, I've seen as far more careful, uses qualifiers, fencesits a bit and uses slightly wishy-washy wording. I don't like this. I'll get back on the Amy wagon if necessary but I think my vote's better served here.

Well, that "scum found" part was indeed fishy.
However, I'm not convinced right now that Wgeurts is scum. We need more posts from him.

[Aneninen]

Davesaz, I know that you didn't want to break any of the site rules, but that post was against them.

MOD: We need a post deletion at 168 and 169 – thanks and sorry!

[Aneninen]

@Wgeurts, Davesaz, I really didn't want to be a spoilsport. (In short: mentioning ongoing games is not allowed – sure, those posts don't affect anything in the 98% of the cases but in the rest of the cases they could be detrimental. I'll explain it after this game has ended if needed.)

Ah, anen responded.
Could you consider the possibility of her being scared as noob with her being vigilante or something. That's my paranoia, if we lynch her she could be a legit town vig. What draft was she again?

Okay, so on one hand, we have legit and somewhat helpful setup spec with regards to what roles scum tend to pick, what to look out for, what the plan is if someone claims vig/vengeful...
and on the other hand, we have wgeurts directly speculating the role of someone based on something they said.

MathDino, you've got a point.
Wgeurts, I posted before that I doubt that Amy would be town-Vig or town-Vengeful. As a noob, she'd hard-claim that or she wouldn't talk about that at all.

Sorry about that.
Moving right along, is there an actual case against Amy? Or we're shaking the trees to see what falls out? I'm not necessarily against that, but would like to know what the wagon is about.

I posted my case, eg. in 118...

I'm more concerned with how he attacked Ane for sheeping Dino on Amy, yet Droog openly admitted to sheeping someone on the wagon, and Wgeurts is calling him town. The double standard there doesn't sit well with me.

Hmmm... that's a good question.

[Aneninen]

I've already seen newer players hardclaiming PRs, especially if they're pressurized.

[Aneninen]

No, I haven't played with her.
As I've said before, I find her scummy regardless of her experience. Thats'why I haven't asked her about other forums. But okay,

@Amy, have you ever played Mafia on another site or IRL?

[Aneninen]

No. I presented my case in several posts, eg. 118.

[Aneninen]

Let me get this clear:
I am being voted because
- My setup speculation was interpreted as scummy behaviour.
- I mentioned my dislike of setup speculation and yet did so.
So, let's discuss the aforementioned points.

Does research prove that scum do what I did much more often than town? I saw a point (by mathdino) and chose to oppose it. I dislike the principle that if one claims a role they are automatically biased towards being scum. I opposed it and I guess I got myself into this.
Regarding the second point, there was hardly anything else I had to talk about. And if you can't beat them then join them. I don't want to lurk about at the start of a game. Am I not allowed to do something I dislike? It's not an 'it's scummy' type of dislike, but more of an 'ehh this is boring' dislike.

(1) I haven't done a research like that but I do know that early-speculations help more the scum than the town.
(2) Noone has told that there are "auto-town" or "auto-scum" roles. What really disturbed me that you were trying to explain the possible town-uses of certain roles

without

even mentioning that towns may choose PRs that are more beneficial for the scum so as to keep them away off those PRs.
(3) Why do you assume that there were only two possibilities: lurking and talking about the setup? You could have talked about anything else. Here are some examples:
– you could have started analysing others' posts
– you could have asked others why they chose their draft numbers (it happened in the abandoned game I was in)
– or, you could have talked about OTHER PRs too. A I the only one who noticed that there had been a lot of talk about the Vig and the Vengeful while basicly nothing about other PRs?

Y'know, it's funny you noticed that. I'm assuming that most games here don't have daytalk, or in any case I didn't know this one did. It usually takes scum to know of something that scum has. Do you play this setup a lot?

It is written on the wiki that scums have daytalk. Anyone can know that and anyone can fake (who hasn't played this setup before) that they don't know that.

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

________

Davesaz's posts look like an attempt to look busy without actually doing anything for the town. He asks plenty of questions to people but has rarely given his own input on matters. His lengthiest posts are about things that really won't go anywhere, like discussing the Kitty comments.

Hmmm... maybe I'll re-check it later. This might be true.

Venrob, 218, okay, you have little time for posting but, have you just dropped by so as to post this nullcontent?

Siv, why do you like Davesaz?

[Aneninen]

– or, you could have talked about OTHER PRs too. A I the only one who noticed that there had been a lot of talk about the Vig and the Vengeful while basicly nothing about other PRs?

Are you sure about that?

I didn't say that it would have been a good idea. I only said it would have been less scummy if she had done that.

[Aneninen]

Druuge, sorry I don't understand you.
Davesaz, maybe my memories are not correct but there were much more talk about the Vigilante and the Vengeful than everyithing else.

Or most probably I'm dumb now after drinking some wine which I must do every evening I get drowsy and I know I shouldn'T post anything. Sorry for being even more idiotique than I usually am olololololololol!

[Aneninen]

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

amy admitted such

While I can be assed to do this, let's make a small reads list,

right now of the people who have posted within the last hour

as of typing this line up.

Even if it was not random, the reason for choosing those players is still a WTF.

i honestly dont know what
something about how each of these responses is agreeable
to the person anem's responding to

I'm doing that plenty of times.
(1) I mark posts because I agree with them and I don't want to parrot the same content
(2) I mark posts because someone has pointed out something which I skimmed over before
(3) I mark posts which doesn't seem to be too relevant in that certain gamestate but might be important later

(1) Right. Other people were speculating too, and I didn't know about what helps who. Speculation seems pretty neutral to me.
(2) The town choice thing didn't occur to me. This is the first time I'm playing this setup, so I don't really know the current meta regarding this. I just went with what was in my head at the time.
(3) Analysing people's posts - and say what about them. I had nothing to say at that point.
(4) Asking others - why? I don't see the point.
(5) Talk about other PRs - and have you or someone else accuse me of rolefishing or whatever they'd feel like calling me out on? Mathdino talked about the vig and the vengeful, so I decided to discuss that and say what I thought of them. I didn't just randomly pick roles out and talk about them y'know.
(6) I don't typically read the full wiki page of each setup I play so it didn't occur to me that the scum talk differed from the norm. Say what you want about that.
(7) My readslist was about recent posters as of when I started typing up because long reads lists are boring to write and even more boring to read. I didn't pluck out random people, so read the full post before calling me out.
(8) And if you say that setup spec helps scum more than town then call mathdino out if you're looking for someone who talked about the setup.

(More numbers has been added by me)

(1) You might think so, but early-speculation helps the scum more, in most cases.
(2) That may or may not be true.
(3) Uhh, I didn't like that. Analysing others' posts is a cornerstone of scumhunting. This means, you're not scumhunting.
(4) Why? To make things clear that you don't understand or concerns you. Again, this means you're not scumhunting.
(5) I didn't say that talking about other PRs would have been a good idea but it was strange that you had been talking only about those particular PRs.
(6) Regardless of your alignment, it's useful to read everything about the setup. Well, you know... it helps scumhunting.
(7) Everyone knows that I'm far not the best player as it comes to producing short posts. Still, many players are able to write short playerlists and neither making them, nor reading them is boring. Producing and reading readlists help the flights of those cute little Painted Ladies (

Vanessa cardui

and whenever you post a readlist a Night Fairy smiles. Also, it helps scumhunting.
(8) It is a thing done by MathDino but so far he has done nothing else which has been scummy.

TL;DR version: Amy is not scumhunting at all.

________

Hi there, AdrienC !

[Aneninen]

________

Because of the huge amount of work needs to be done in the forthcoming days, I'm on LA.
I'll be able to read the thread but my posts will be infrequent, short and maybe badly formatted too.
Thanks for your understanding.
________

[Aneninen]

UNVOTE:
What if that was a town-flail from Amy?

I looked into the chat and I don't understand clearly:
– Why is the Wgeurts wagon?
– Why is the Siveure wagon?

Alchemystique, your reasoning in your pervious post is pigeon poop. Yeah, he's the 4th in the Draft. If he's scum, he must have a PR but this is also true if he's town. By the way, aren't you the first one in the draft? I don't understand this reasoning coming from that slot at all!

[Aneninen]

Well.
That's the third wagon emerging very quickly. Someone (who has more time than me) should examine who the players were on all of these wagons, I mean Amy, Wgeurts and now Siveure.

@Siveure. You posted that you're vanilla. If you told which role had you gone for, would it help the town more than the scum? If so, please tell us the role you wanted to get!

[Aneninen]

*you had gone.
F-ck being tired.

[Aneninen]

I have very little time so I haven't read everything thoroughly, but here are a couple of things.

Druuge, calling me scum because you think Amy is town and because you like her responds is bad logic. We can simply misread each other, that's very common, especially on Day1. By the way, I'm not voting for her right now.

Mathdino, I haven't fully understood your 344. Maybe you missed my thoughts there...? As I said, I have very little time to post, that'swhy I'm on LA.

Siveure, what kind of credit are you talking about? I'm nullreading you. Your gameplay is the same as it was in the abandoned Pick Your Power game, where we met. Nevertheless, I'm going to search for that crumb later.

I think Siveure is an "investigation magnet".

[Aneninen]

Okay, having a little time I try to do something useful.

@Siveure. Who asked the question you answered the crumb for and where?

rereading this i have no idea what you mean
amy proposes that certain roles aren't scummy choices
to which you object because... town could choose those not-scummy roles?

No, Druuge.
Some of the roles are indeed more beneficial to the scum but they may be useful for a townie as well. Amy pointed that out. However, townies could choose a scummy role like Vig to keep the scums off them and Amy never mentioned it. Those two things

together

are scummy, in my opinion. (Check it out, I posted the same a couple of times before.)

Mathdino, 375 – okay, I'm telling you something. Believe me or not, I picked 1 because I thought that the scums would go for that number too. Before Open567 (which was abandoned) I checked all the previous drafts and I have a paper with the numbers, players, roles etc. near my computer. (Next to the E.B.O.N.Y. NewLevels pages lololol.) However, in 567 the scums picked 4, 9 and 12 and I strongly suspected that they might pick smaller numbers this time and I was scared that no townie would be a "scapegoat" to pick 1 and intentionally get a bad draft because of that. On the other hand I'm surprised that 4 won and all of the small numbers were doubled and I ended up 6th.

Also if by some miracle the doc is town, the best move for scum is probably to nightkill below me in the draft.

WHUT?

[Aneninen]

Also, let's see those wagons.
+ = the player was/is on that particular wagon
– = the player was/is away
0 = that player was/is wagoned
The order of the signs: Amy, Wgeurts, Siveure. Draft is in brackets.

Alchemist21 (4) : – + +
davesaz (6) : – + +
Ankamius (8) : – – +
Siveure DtTrikyp (13) : + + 0
Venrob (15) : – – +
Aneninen (1) : + – –
Romitelli (1) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
Amy Farrah Fowler (3) : 0 – –
farside22 (3) : – – –
Mathdino (5) : + + +
wgeurts (5) : – 0 +
Flubbernugget (2) : + + –
Adrien C (2) : – – – (very few posts from this slot)
droog (2) : + – –

This might tell us a couple of things.
First of all, I may be wrong about Amy. If she were scum she could have jumped on any of the wagons to save her a$$. That didn't happen.
If Siveure is scum (note that he was on both wagons) we should pay attention to Flubber too who was on the first two wagons.
Farside may be town, she was uninterested in all of the wagons. Unsure about Romitelli and AdrienC because of too little content.
Alchemystique and Davesaz were doing the same. Mathdino is the only player who was on all of the wagons, though if my memories are correct he had left the Amy-wagon before it started to dissolve. I'm not sure what to think about this phenomenon (away from Amy, on for Wgeurts and Siveure) but there might be at least one but maximum two scums among these three players if Siveure flips town. Although, I must admit that this pattern might be a coincidence too.
Another interesting thing: there were no players who were on both the Amy and Siveure wagons but away from the Wgeurts wagon. I don't know whether it is significant.

Post-edit: Romitelli is auto-FoS in my eyes because of his draft but I apart from that he's null: mere 6 posts and 4 of those are contentless. And I don't have problems with funny names, I'm using some on others too. ^_^

[Aneninen]

/OFF

Hail Nehalennia ! Wijs de weg !

/ON

[Aneninen]

WTF?

You all wish

Happy Thanksgiving !

and noone bats an eye.
I say

Hail Nehalennia !

and everyone loses their minds. ^_^

[Aneninen]

Mini-answer.
Wgeurts, I noted your question and I try to take a quick look at everyone.

Venrob.

Less content than it appears. Focuses on too few players. Unsorted–lean scum.

MathDino.

What an amount of effort is made by him! He's examining everything, pays attention to everyone and tries to lead the town. I would say that he's probably town... but I've got a bad intuition about him. If he's scum he won't be the first one who falls, I'm sure. I don't think he's be a good lynch Today anyway so let's see how the game goes on later. Probably town (logic) / probably scum (weak intuition plus he has been on all of the three wagons so far).

Siveure.

Am I the only one who thinks that his crumb which was:

"Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant."

– could mean anything? That "Yes" or "No" is a possible answer for many things. He said that he would lurk until the wagon would disappear (425) but it hasn't happened. Worried about the stall of the game in 480 and that didn't happen in the abandoned game I met him. I didn't like 503 either, Doc

could

be chosen by the first three players in the draft. Lean scum–probably scum.

Davesaz.

Null, and I'm not talking about him for the same reason as he's not talking about me. Sorry.

Amy.

My former scumread. But, her later posts may have been town-flails and "mirror-scumreading" someone is more likely a newbtown-tell than a scum-tell. Therefore, lean town. (We should keep in mind that the scums have daytalk and she may have been coached there if she's scum.)

Druuge.

Multiple issues. If Amy happens to be scum, he must have done a Chainsaw. In his opinion I was tunnelling Amy yet he has been doing the same to me, also thinks that I'm a good "compromise lynch" in 467, which is weird. Also, a couple of disturbing things like "'your argument is bad but you're still probably town' is a classic scum defense" in 498, I'm sure that the thing he asked in 370 had already been explained by me before... however, there are caveats, like: he posted something similar in 371 that I did above. Plus, he's been away from most wagons. Lean scum.

Alchemiss.

Something is fishy here. By ISO-ing I can see less content than I remembered. 308 and nearby is strange (why is it a problem that Siveure has a townread on Dave?), 315 is very strange in its context. He has been on 2 of the major wagons. Lean scum.

Ankamius.

Less content than it appears and there are no new things appearing in his reads. Unsorted–lean scum

Farside.

I had a townread on her before and it hasn't changed. Probably town.

AdrienC.

Very little content and he's posting about very few things. Unsorted.

FlubberNugget.

I've seen the same Flubber in the abandoned game with the same setup. I kept scumreading him there as far as I can remember and it turned out the he was town. Therefore, lean town. (His vote-moving is a thing we should remember later, although.)

Romitelli.

Null in itself (although, picking 1 is an Auto-FoS, as I posted that before). What is more interesting in him is the fact that some of the players featured him in their Top3 list, as far as I can remember, Alchemist, Siveure, Ankamius... maybe someone should summarize those scumreads, shouldn't they?

post-edit

...it's especially interesting because he's leaving the game now!

Wgeurts.

I still can't see too many scummy things here. Probably town.

________

So, my strongest scumread is Siveure, the next one may be Alchemiss and Druuge. Although – wow, I'm fence-sitting now! ^_^ – there are caveats against all of these reads. Siveure's wagon had been developing very quickly and stopped afterwards. Why didn't the scums started a viable counter-wagon? As for Alchemist, first of all, call me an idiot but I wouldn't lynch the 1st one in the draft unless I had very strong evidences. Druuge is a possibility but see above, there are town-things in his posts too.

Maybe I should pay more attention to my "second three" list: Venrob, MathDino, Ankamius.
But, later – I'm still short on time. (This latest bit can also mean that I'm a subject of misreading and missing things right now. Too much work, that's what I have.)

[Aneninen]

Small catching up, don't expect too much after 12 hours of work.
Some player says that I'm performing IIoA. Where exactly?

Druuge. I appreciate that you're spending that much time with scumhunting and I like it anyway. However, here are a few answers for you. In 559 you were talking about my 83. Do you really think that I should have provided firm reads in such an early post? The same goes for your next post, which is also about an early post from me.
Also, you should think about this: there

was

a reason for sheeping my Amy-case. At that point you thought that it was okay and you find it terrible now. What changed and why?
As for your 573, I still don't understand the logic behind that readlist. Even if my read on Amy changed later I still find that strange, even if it's not essentially scummy.
579 – okay, what sort of conclusion can you draw out of all those wagon movements? You told me that you didn't agree, that'swhy I ask.
586 – there were other things there about you. However, my reads are changing, right now you're in the "I don't know what to think" cathegory.
587 – you interpreted my unsorted and unsorted–lean scum reads as scumreads. If you're doing this, sure there are too many scumreads there. Also, you skipped the very last part of my post: "

I'm still short on time. (This latest bit can also mean that I'm a subject of misreading and missing things right now. Too much work, that's what I have.)

"
TL;DR: you're searching for the scum at the wrong slot. I'm not one of them.

Siveure. The post where you voted for me contains nothing about me. So, in practice, it's a naked vote.

MathDino. I still don't understand clearly the logic behind the scumlists regarding of Siveure's flip.

Formerfish. Hi there! You needn't like my posting style. Especially since during your catch-up you'll find that it gets worse later. ^_^

That's all for now, folks! Maybe I'll have some time next evening too.

[Aneninen]

You shall not lynch me Today.

[Aneninen]

For your information: I'm town. Read my posts again given that piece of information. I had made up a plan before the game started and my plan shall be done. Period. I revealed a part of it in 387.

[Aneninen]

I didn't crumb, but I explained something.

Amy, 40 – it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility that

a town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums.

That's also possible.

THIS.

And I'm not telling which one.
Why? Because, check out the scummiest roles! It's possible that Mislynching me is risky, it's possible that Nightkilling me is risky, and it's possible that I'm not THAT useful for the town and it would be better if the scum tried to find another PR to get rid of. WIFOM – against the scums!

Because, f-ck scums all over the board, that'swhy. I picked 1 so as not to let anyome get the scummiest number for free. I picked a scum-benefit-PR for the town because now the scums don't have it. Can they rule out some of the possible PRs? Maybe... But, how can they act without giving away information about their own PRs? TROLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Aneninen]

I was thinking before whether I would answer those questions if they happened to appear. But I strongly think that those pieces of information would help the scums more. (Eg. what if I misread someone and name them as a Vengeance-target?) Also, there are a couple of other PRs that I can have.

I'm not voting right now for a similar reason: I want to see how certain players react to my previous post. Remember, at least I know that the scums can't have a certain PR-pair and that IS a piece of valuable information too.

[Aneninen]

The problem is that we're running out of time.
As I said before I'd been waiting for certain players' reactions and most of them arrived. Some of the answers were more town-ish, some were somewhat scummy but one of the responds stood out as a blatantly scummy one. It's a pity that we have no time to lynch that player right now.

Alchemiss is a too risky lynch, I think. If he's town-PR he'll claim in the very last moment and it's possible that we'll unable to set up another lynch.
To tell the truth, Siveure is far not my strongest scumread. BUT, his gameplay makes pretty much sense if he's scum with someone else.

Even if my reads might be screwed-up, because (1) there are players who has hardly been posting anything useful and (2) I've had a very busy IRL-period, apart from the player I mentioned above, there is someone who's a constant possibility. And of course, I have townreads too. What do I mean by all of these these? As for the two scummy players, someone was pretty familiar with schoolings, while someone else was never to see tigers and polar bears. On the other hand, there is someone whom ik vind leuk, someone else has already got used to hearing knocks on the door and his/her name in turns. The third townread can never appear between The World and The Fool.

So,

VOTE: Siveure

[Aneninen]

A total number of 5–6 players are here or so. Like wow!

[Aneninen]

Oh shyt, prod dodge.

[Aneninen]

I know I've been shyt on Day2 so far. But I promise that I'll catch-up as soon as I have time.

[Aneninen]

Oh shyt!
I was writing a post somewhere else when the prod arrived. Sorry, everyone! It has never happened to me before.

[Aneninen]

Catching up at the weekend. For sure.

[Aneninen]

Finally, I'm here.
Right now I'm not speculating about the Nightkill, it's a WIFOM at best

in itself

. Let's see, what else we have.

Spoiler: Catch-up

Wgeurts's vote in 740 is a thing to remember (technically naked). He's town in my opinion, though.

Alchemist, 744, Adrien's vote in that situation is a null in itself. As far as I can see he only told that it was a better idea than the other wagons. (Farside's reply is true too.) Disagree with 747 (and other posts), there may have been scums on the Siveure wagon. Sure, scums may have been away (referring to 751) but we should keep in mind the following thing: in this setup, the draft

greatly affects

the townies' general attitude to lynch someone. An early-draft mislynch is much more risky, since a town-PR may be outed or lynched!

Druuge, 756 and nearby posts, I explained my reasons, as for voting for Siveure. It's strange that you mention I was "lampshading" (757) without mentioning the post from Formerfish (731) – my post was actually an answer for that. Also, it seems that you're scumreading Dino/Adrien/Aneninen and leaving out Formerfish with your votes. (At this point a Druuge/Formerfish/x scumteam is possible.)

Farside, 760, I hope you'll find your answer in my post. If not, fire your question away.

Ankamius, 761, I wish you posted more about those thoughts.

I also don't understand the reactions from Wgeurts and Ankamius to Amy's 762.

Venrob, 770, WTF? That vote is bad in itself and it's even worse that you gave no reasons for it! Oh no, your 810 is even-even much worse! Oh, no-no, your next posts are somewhere in the Mariana Trench.

Farside, 772, do you think that's the best place for your vote? As for your 779, yes it seems that Ankamius is producing vague posts, I'll see what happens later. His next posts (780-ish) are vague too. I think a little meta-ing on Ankamius would be useful.

Mathdino, 774, your logic (if Siveure = town then Alchemiss or Aneninen = scum) escapes me. It was strange Yesterday too and it's just as strange now.

Flubber, 787, uhhhh, I'd say that picking up a single thing out of the thread and answering that is a scumtell, but I've seen this from town-Flubber before. So, it's only a Flubber is being Flubber tell. ^_^ (Including his later vote too.)

Formerfish, 793, what kind of rubbish explanation was that? Also, 797 is a kind of hmm-hmmm... (Formerfish/Druuge/AdrienC team? No, that's technically impossible, that would mean that scums chose 1, 2, 2. My logic is bad here.) 811 is euhhwyhh?! Pulling down a branch so as to make a fruit a low hanging one, that's what I think is happening here. And here: 822, 823. (Though he was scumreading Venrob on Day1 too.)

Ankamius, 807, that vote is ???

Mathdino, 829, that would be a WIFOM in itself, but since you were scumreading Alchemist before, that might be true. Or at least, an Alchemist/Mathdino scumpair would make no sense, at this point. Why do you think that Formerfish is town, in 873?

Alchemist, 830, I've already played with Flubber (I mentioned it in this post earlier). This is the same gameplay as a town-Flubber was. 836: some things I can tell right now about it. Check out Formerfish's next posts, from 683. And no, I'm not making this up right now. Remember what I said at the end of Day1:

As for the two scummy players,

someone was pretty familiar with schoolings

, while someone else was never to see tigers and polar bears. On the other hand, there is someone whom ik vind leuk, someone else has already got used to hearing knocks on the door and his/her name in turns. The third townread can never appear between The World and The Fool."

Certain fish-species live in schoolings, as we know. If someone is not "is", but "was" there, than that one is not a fish right now, he's a former-fish.

Druuge, 845 and nearby. As Alchemist pointed it out, calling your sudden townread on me a typo is pigeon poop! (Even if you managed to convince Alchemist that it was a typo.)

Wgeurts, 874, a half-policy vote in the middle of Day2 is bad, bad, bad!

Conclusions. (TL;DR part)

Wgeurts – probably town and I'm not allowed to explain it because of the site rules.
Ankamius – did a little meta. Because of that, lean town. (I'd really appreciate a scumgame-link of yours, Ankamius, though.)
Alchemystique – unsure, but not a good lynch because of his draft.
Druuge – a possible scum partner of Formerfish and lean scum in itself too.
MathDino – the drop of his activity concerns me. Another unsorted player.
Formerfish – probably scum and check my spoiler for it.
Adrien C – my main problem is this: there were much more content

about

him than

made by

him. His reactions are not scummy either. Because of these, lean town.
Amy – no change, lean town, but let's see her replacement later.
Venrob – poor gameplay and I think he's a low hanging fruit for the scum. That'swhy lean town.
Farside – I'd be very surprised if she were scum. Probably town.
Flubber – lean town, see above!

Therefore,

VOTE: Formerfish

I know that I have only 2 scumreads. The third one may be either of the unsorted players or seriously misread by me.

[Aneninen]

Wgeurts, you don't have to be worried, Dutch-English is cute. ^_^
For your information, Dutch helps a

lot

if you're a non-native speaker and you want to understand how English and German

really

works. (No kidding!)

[Aneninen]

I have arrived.
Anyone want to recap events for me?

(0) Hi there!
(1) Siv was mislynched. He had claimed VT before and also told that he had gone for Doc but it had been taken before him.
(2) The counterwagons were Alchemist and me. My soft-claim was 679.
(3) Davesaz got Nightkilled, flipped Jailkeeper.
(4) AdrienC and Venrob are the main suspects right now. (Maybe Wgeurts too?)
(5) Your slot was scumread by some of us, mostly by me, at the beginning of Day1. The case was dropped, I don't think anyone's scumreading your slot right now.
(6) The players are active in general, or at least, there are some active players all the time. Although, the activity of "particular players" is fluctuating.

Everyone, have I missed something important?

[Aneninen]

I wanted to give an unbiased summary. You're not amongst the "most suspected" player, as for the community. You have only one vote: mine. Is it clear now?

[Aneninen]

Okay, Formerfish, just answer this.
Your main scumread is Venrob. Given that he's reaching on your scum-o-meter 10, who's your next scumread and what kind of value would he/she reach?

[Aneninen]

Who are the "particular players" and wy did you choose to put emphasis on that term?

Maybe I used the wrong words. I wanted to mean that at least a couple of players are active whenever you take a look at the thread, but you'll find different players active. Eg. right now I try to be active but, apart from this day (15. 12. or so) I've done shyt on Day2. The same pattern fits for many other players.

(Meanwhile, our kitty wants to play as well. Hey, Feliz, who's scum?)

MathDino, your Amy/Victor read is a thing which I don't understand. Victor's way to catch-up is not too effective indeed, but (I know it's an off-tell), would Amy replace out when he had been townread by almost all of us, including her "arch-enemy", me?

Formerfish. I still don't think that you're town but, as far as I can see, I'm on a vanity wagon. As usual. F-ck. I'm always on a vanity wagon. And I'm drunk. (And not because of that rubbish wine, this time. Double-f-ck. Needs to work tomorrow.)

UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

Hi there, Green Crayons and also hi there, Aronis !

[Aneninen]

Mobilpost about reading the chat and promising a detailed catcjup soon........

[Aneninen]

I'm reading and reading... and I have different reads on many players than the majority seems to have. However, there's something common, I suppose: Wgeurts's gameplay is very different from the one I know.

[Aneninen]

soon.

[Aneninen]

So, let's see what happens in Pepperland nowadays.

(1) MathDino's analysis, 962 – nice colors and plenty of information. What work and what a pity that it doesn't tells me anything right now.

(2) Venrob asks for replacement. Gives hints for the forthcoming replacement. Is it important? Maybe after a scumflip that might tell us something about the Venrob slot, or about Wgeurts or MathDino.

(3) Green Crayons claims VT in 985. Should I buy that? He's the 5th on the draft list and Siv was VT... weird... Also, I don't know why GC was so town for MathDino in 988. Before the claim, though, I hadn't find that slot scummy (as far as I can remember). But somehow that VT claim gave me bad feelings.

(4) Also, it's a hmm-hmmm that MathDino's scumreads are (apart from Wgeurts) in the early-draft section. MathDino, can you explain the "reaction test" on GC you mention in 1003? I must have missed it.

(5) Alchemist's 992 is either an interesting theory or a WIFOM.

(6) And there come those Wgeurts-walls. I haven't seen such Wgeurts-posts before. Also, no analysis on MathDino and GreenCrayon? Hey-hey-hey...! 1046:

"Why y'all should be voting flubbernugget."

– right after those walls? (And another post about Ankamius.) That is over-explaining, in my opinion and gives me scumvibes.

(7) Formerfish, 1057 ..."explore" Wgeurts with that vote? Why "explore"? Why not "I'm scumreading" or not voting for him at all? "Exploring" on Day2 is weird at best.

(8) Alchemist, 1065,

"This is the most we've gotten from Flubbernugget all game."

– I can confirm this.

(9) Wgeurts, 1069 and next posts – Uhhhh, I think I need to re-calibrate my scum-o-meter, these have just given an overdriven square-wave.

(10) GreenCrayons, 1098, how can Wgeurts's Day2 be null? The other reads are vague and/or weirdly-weighted too. Eg. 5 rows (on my screen) on VDA, 4 on Formerfish and 1–1 rows on many players? (More about the latter players later, I've found that post.) Also, the two major scumreads are in the early-draft and yet he thinks it would be bad if he knew/posted about the role Venrob applied for.................... Also, votes for Ankamius, who is under replacement. La wow!

(11) Druuge also votes for Ankamius, who's under replacement. Hmmm... And Mathdino too... Also Wgeurts... Now I really think that this wagon is emerging in an unnatural way!

(12) MathDino launches the VDA wagon. Does anyone have a meta on VDA anyway? FormerFish joines with little-to-no content. Alchemist is next... wow! I don't know what to think... partly because VDA's 1156 seems to be format-broken. His later posts are ugh, anyway. Especially that vote for Ollie. (As far as I can see, Wgeurts is not on this wagon, we should remember this.)

________

Somehow I've got a feeling that one of the most active players (who is actually forming the atmosphere) is scum. I'm getting less sure about everything, even if I hate when this happens, I must admit it.
Also, those quick wagons are strange too.

Wgeurts –

probably town

changed to scum because of the unusual posts plus the reasons above.

Ankamius

Ollie – lean town. No change.
Alchemystique – unsure, but lean town now.
Druuge – a possible scum partner of Formerfish – change: if Formerfish is scum at all.
MathDino – Unsorted, seems to be obv-town but can be shrewd scum too, not a good lynch now, I suppose.
Formerfish –

probably scum

I'm less confident about this.
Adrien C – lean town. No change.

Amy

VDA – unsure... I don't like his posts but can someone summarize the case?

Venrob

GreenCrayons –

That'swhy lean town.

Lean scum right now and I don't trust him at all. Why are you (almost) all townread him?
Farside – Probably town. No change.
Flubber – lean town, no change.

VOTE: Wgeurts

And now I have more time for playing so I can play quicker.

[Aneninen]

3. He's provably VT, if he's not a VT he's just a mafia goon. If he's lying then a massclaim will bury him.
4. My scumreads are also in Amy, don't think she's in early draft section. Also I want to note that scum are more likely to be in the early drafts due to not picking the same draft number. I think one of the scum picked a late number (like 8) to guarantee at least one scum PR and the others went early.
7. Exploration is not scummy, this is town.
11. The wagon's like that because we're nearing the deadline and I got the deadline frozen. The idea is to pressure the replacement and get votes on him before the deadline thawed.
12. I've played with scum Victor, as has wgeurts. Scum-him has a high tendency of throwing out questions that show why things are "noteworthy" but somehow not "scummy", which basically turn the questions into pointless mudslinging that exists to appear engaged. I can link you in a sec if you want.
The funny thing is, the reason I was originally scumreading Amy was because she was acting like Victor in that game. Now Victor replaces in and acts just like himself.

3. He's

(GC – edited by me)

provably VT, if he's not a VT he's just a mafia goon. If he's lying then a massclaim will bury him.
4. My scumreads are also in Amy, don't think she's in early draft section. Also I want to note that scum are more likely to be in the early drafts due to not picking the same draft number. I think one of the scum picked a late number (like 8) to guarantee at least one scum PR and the others went early.
7. Exploration is not scummy, this is town. (

about FormerFish

)
11. The wagon's like that because we're nearing the deadline and I got the deadline frozen. The idea is to pressure the replacement and get votes on him before the deadline thawed.
12. I've played with scum Victor, as has wgeurts. Scum-him has a high tendency of throwing out questions that show why things are "noteworthy" but somehow not "scummy", which basically turn the questions into pointless mudslinging that exists to appear engaged. I can link you in a sec if you want.
The funny thing is, the reason I was originally scumreading Amy was because she was acting like Victor in that game. Now Victor replaces in and acts just like himself.[/quote]
3. GC may or may not be a VT, however, if not, I can't see why he must be a Mafia Goon.
4. You're right, that read changed after I had written that part.
7. That's not town. Null at best, I've already seen scums doing that kind of "exploration".
11. And I'm going to examine these wagons soon. Something is fishy about them and not former-fishy, it's fishy right now. ^_^
12. Can you?

137

(New numbers have been added so as not to confuse my replies with the other answers)

- Yeah well everyone had some sort of suspicion of Amy and since I know she was town I don't get really get why people were suspicious. Nothing stood out her posts nor were any the cases really valid. If it takes my flip to shine a light a few people then maybe I am the best lynch.

255

- Jesus, I can't do anything right. Honestly I'm regretting replacing in this game. If you don't like the way I caught that I couldn't care less.

Premature claim and his reaction to droog are both unlike scum. Furthermore droog was at the very very bottom of the draft order and couldn't even be a cop, but he believed it anyway, which furthers my belief that he hadn't read the thread at that point.

888

So what. Scum have daytalk. It's perfectly reasonable to believe he simply asked his scumbuddies if he was confscum and one said no just claim vt.
Gambits like this are generally worthless in games with daytalk.

(137) The first part is simply not true. Relatively very few players had scumread Amy before her wagon dissolved. In the end I, who had been scumreading her for the longest time, was accused of tunnelling. The other part is false as well. Your lynch gives very little information about other slots, compared to other possibilities, in my opinion.
(255) I don't like this at all. You know, as a town, I'm usually really annoyed at people who are playing the "Regardless of Card" on me all the time. (That means: scumreading me regardless of the content I provide.) But, what I really don't like in this post is that your slot HAD NOT BEEN scumread before you arrived. You're trying to say that you've just replaced into a terrible slot, which is not true (see 137). You're misrepresenting the events.
(888) That is true, but GC's alignment has nothing to do with your alignment (unless I'm seriously misreading the game).

________

I know it's a mere intuition but the distribution of the PRs may be really weird. Either some of the "logical" PRs are missing or some of the typically early-draft PRs are in the late-draft section.
If so, it's possible that all the scums are in the mid- or late-draft part and maybe they don't have a useful PR at all. Moreover, it's likely that the early-draft part contains only one scum.

[Aneninen]

There is a distribution which, if it's true, explains many things. I really hope that I'm right about it. Because, in that case, if a certain person plays it well, the game is technically broken.

Victor, you're misrepresenting my content too.
Enough 'outta dat.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Victor De Angelo

[Aneninen]

There is a distribution which, if it's true, explains many things. I really hope that I'm right about it. Because, in that case, if a certain person plays it well, the game is technically broken.

What the fuck does this mean?

You needn't care.

Where did I misrep your content.

"It gives information about people who pushing my lynch (in particular those who claiming to have meta reads on me)."

– You must have realized that many of us have been talking about possible scum combinations and "rule-outs". Your slot has no connections like that. Also, as far as I can see, players disagreeing in many things anyway are willing to vote for you.

"Really cause when I read through I saw a lot of people scumreading Amy Day 1."

– EARLY Day1, and the third of the players at most. Later your slot had been FoS-ed at maximum before you arrived.

"all I've done is replace in and try to get caught in long, frankly uninteresting game, and people have given me shit about the way I caught up."

– This game is everything but "uninteresting". Also, noone scumreads you because of the WAY of your catchup, but because of the CONTENT of it. In addition, I myself had been hesitant until I realized that you were and are misrepresenting almost everything.

"Your right it doesn't. Am I only allowed to talk stuff related to my alignment now?"

– noone has told you that! I pointed out that your statement was right in general but it had nothing to do with your alignment.

[Aneninen]

victor i want you to post a full reads list

So do I.

[Aneninen]

Hmm-hmmm... VDA has no reads on Alchemist and me... might it be a WIFOM from him? If so, something may be true I posted earlier Today.

[Aneninen]

VDA was at L–1 after my vote and before Alchemist's unvote.
Does that tell us anything? Do VDA's posts during this interval tell us anything?

[Aneninen]

Don't you find it strange that noone even noted (nor noticed?) it?
I hadn't announced it because I wanted to know what would happen... and this fact will be a very valuable piece of information later on, according to the forthcoming flip.

[Aneninen]

Wgeurts is a non-native English speaker (nor do I), that mistake is very common amongst ESL people. And not an alignment-tell at all.

[Aneninen]

*nor

am

I, f-ck thys shyt. ^_^
(Note to self: I really shouldn't post when I'm in a hurry.)

[Aneninen]

Ollie, 1237 – This post is amongst those which will be to be remembered later when we have more flips.

Wgeurts, 1240 – I don'T think Ollie is lurking.

VDA, 1250 – How on Gods' Green Earth can Alchemist and me nulls?! Also,

"I find it telling you didn't annouce it as L-1. Hoping for a derp hammer perhaps?"

– whutkindofbullshyt was that? Anyone who considers themselves a minimally sentient organism checks the Vote Count before voting for a major wagon. Aaaand, that

"There goes the Farside townread."

was simply lololol!

Farside, 1282

"I have two different scum groups vda."

– and I bet you don't want to elaborate it right now. You're not the only one who has "pocked scumreads". I'm too thinking about two different scenarios and VDA fits both...

MathDino, 1263

"Alternatively, both Ollie and Victor are town and scum doesn't particularly care either way but wants to stick to one to be consistent."

– I too find Victor scummy. However, if and when he flips town, we all should examine those who were on both wagons and/or who were scumreading both of them.

[Aneninen]

1 day 4 hours left.
No Lynch would be terrible.
Flubber, Alchemist, Adrian, join one of the big wagons, please !

[Aneninen]

This post technically rules out the possibility of a GreenCrayons/Flubber scumteam.

[Aneninen]

We shouldn't perform a lynch until we get all the information we can Today.

[Aneninen]

First of all, something must be cleared.
These questions are to be answered:

(1) Has anyone received a Fruit yet? (If someone, a single player answers yes, neither of these questions need answering any more.)
(2) Did you get in a neighbourhood

at Night 2

? (If so, do NOT out the Neighbourizer, nor your neighbour-buddy!)

I strongly think that something strange's going on. It seems to be absurd and I need something to start my idea confirm or rule out with.

[Aneninen]

Why do you want to know this?

I want to rule out a possibility which, it seems, hasn't come into others' mind yet.

[Aneninen]

You might have misunderstood me. I'm uninterested in the Neighbourizer himself/herself, nor the Fruit Vendor.
On the other hand, I have a theory. It's not

too

possible, but if it's true the scums may be un-catchable later.
To confirm or deny that, I need to know which one of those roles exist. If the one which fits my theory is in the game, I need to ask another question later. If the answer for that another question is 'yes', I'm 99% sure that the Neighbourizer/Fruit Vendor is scum. (Even if it seems to be a silly thing.)

I'll reveal the theory later, even if it fails. But, explaining it before I have the answers would alert those who are involved in my theory.

[Aneninen]

Farside, what I'm advocating is vital. Regardless of Ollie's alignment.

[Aneninen]

Okay, there comes my next question. You're aware of the fact that a Neighbourhood exists.
Can anyone tell me whether

Alchemist used to be in the Neighbourhood after Night 1

?

[Aneninen]

I've asked about Night 1.

[Aneninen]

Okay, here's the theory. Keep in mind, that

according to the information we know, it's most probably NOT true.

I also thought that there is a Neighbourhood.
MathDino posted on Day1 that if Siv flipped scum I'd be FoS-ed by him. On Day2 he started advocating that I'm very-super-pro-town.
A possible answer for this change would have been if MathDino had Neighbourized Alchemist and Alchemist investigated me. (From a Neighbourizer it's one of the best strategies to get the Cop and advocate his/her investigations so as to protect him.)
Alchemist was Nightkilled and MathDino posted that HE had been investigated by the Cop at Night1.

This story would make perfect sense if MathDino were Mafia Neighbourizer, regardless of Ollie's alignment.

BUT, if it gets confirmed that both MathDino and Alchemist weren't in the same Neighbourhood, my theory is false. Right now, this seems to be the case.

So, if anyone can confirm that my theory is either true or false, please do so!

[Aneninen]

But, back to the original topic.
Ollie's Night 2 choice for his protection doesn't make much sense. (Whom did he protect on Night 1? Has he written that and have I missed it?) Therefore, it's probable that he's scum.

But, we have plenty of time. We should get reads on the other players too, as usual. In addition: who's town and who's scum if Ollie flips scum? And what if he flips town?

[Aneninen]

Lol, you ninja-ed me but eventually I answered your question.

[Aneninen]

Okay, here's the theory. (blah, blah

Just going to deny this and move on then

Okay, the theory has been dropped. (But, you all must understand that I needed to rule out this possibility.)

I'll re-join the conversation as I'm back from the swimming pool, where I'm going right now.

[Aneninen]

As for Ollie's 1313. What the biggest problem is with your post are the Night Actions. None of them makes sense. I might believe

one

of them but those two targets

from two different players

(Ankamius and you) are simply impossible. I could name at least four players who might have been much more logical. Others have noticed the same thing too.

GreenCrayons, 1342: that wouldn't make much sense. Having a Doc is not too useful for the scums and a scum can pretend being one very easily. Also, I don't think your 1354 would be a good idea. Also, you tried to change the subject two posts later. Advocating that talkng about or reads is a bad thing in the forthcoming posts.
Everyone, why are you townreading him at all?

Who's the highest living draft?

Why do you ask?

Yeah, why do you ask?

As for AdrianC's reads in 1367. Not too many surprising things here, a readlist like this could be a fake too. One thing to note, though. GC was null-lean scum there. So, I doubt if Ollie flips scum, both GC and AdrianC are scums too.

ollie the fact that your predecessor claimed my role
and i'm not a VT
pretty much seals the deal

Okay, I intentionally didn't ask about this Yesterday but Today it seems to be vital. Where did that claim from Ankamius happen?

[Aneninen]

(1) Formerfish, Wgeurts, Flubber, Druuge. We need more content from all of you. Please, read the whole Day!

(2) Do not put Ollie at L–1 yet. If he's really scum he'll self-hammer so as to prevent further communication!

[Aneninen]

Reads. Opinions about the Day2 lynch. The Nightkill. The events of this Day so far.

[Aneninen]

I'll have a longer post too but, it has just caught my eyes...

Vote for flubbernugget then vig me overnight if he's town which I doubt.

The Vig is dead, Ollie, f-cking dead! We lynched him on Day2 and he didn't even claim that f-cking role!!! What kind of bullshyt was that?!

[Aneninen]

Oh,

that

one. First of all, I can't see why would anyone with a little common sense choose that role over Vengeful. (If that rolepair exists at all in this game.)
Second, if you're aware of the setup and the game that much, why the f-ck you didn't protect Alchemist, or (if you haven't trusted him) Farside. What was the reason for protecting someone who wasn't amongst your townreads and who claimed VT before??!

[Aneninen]

You didn't even mention Alchemist in your posts while you was alive.
But, I have some weird questions.

Who do you think the Backup or the Rolecop is if that rolepair exists in this game?
If you had been in this game from scratch, which number would you have chosen at the Draft and why?
Are you from England?

[Aneninen]

Self-quote.

(1) Formerfish, Wgeurts, Flubber, Druuge. We need more content from all of you. Please, read the whole Day!

This one is still important.

Meanwhile, I've just ISO-ed Alchemist. It seems that either he was Roleblocked at Night1 or he targetted MathDino. Also, unless I'm an idiot who constantly misreads everything, it seems that he's constantly trying to instruct at least two players throughout the chat. This would make zero sense if he were scum, since scums have daytalk in this setup.

[Aneninen]

Don't take it personally, Ollie, but that was against the site rules.

MOD: We need a post deletion. 1424 and 1425.

[Aneninen]

MathDino. Your logic makes no sense. If Ollie's scum (which is very likely), he's most probably Mafia Roleblocker. He can block the Vig kill too. If an N3Vig exists in the game at all. Therefore, Ollie is the lynch.

If you want to proove that I'm wrong, please, answer these:
(1) are you sure that a N3Vig is in the game?
(2) if so, do you know who's it?
(3) do you have a hint (caught crumb or anything) that an N3Vig is in the game?
(4) are you sure that a Backup is in the game?
(5) if so, do you know who's it?
(6) do you have a hint that a Backup is in the game?

So as

not

to give info to the scums, please, give only yes/no answers.

Ollie, I'll answer your post soon as well.

[Aneninen]

MathDino, stop giving wrong advice, will you?
If we vote for the Vig shot and the scums has Backup, they'll simply jail the target having chosen!

[Aneninen]

Plus, answering Druuge as well, we don't know whether we have a N3Vig or a Vengeful at all. We don't even know whether that rolepair exists at all either.

[Aneninen]

something about farside is pinging scum
will elaborate later

I'm looking forward to reading it.
By the way, if Ollie's scum you're unlikely his buddy. Plus, it's almost impossible that Wgeurts is his buddy.

Druuge and Flubber: please, answer this: where do you live? In Europe, in the USA or somewhere else?
This is VERY important.

[Aneninen]

Hi, Orcinus!

Meanwhile, I've been thinking.
If Ollie is Mafia Roleblocker, it's likely that Alchemist failed to investigate anyone at Night1. Davesaz, the 2nd in the draft was killed and what if Alchemist was blocked?
Also, Ollie, as for this:

"Scum hunting based on location? This is cringeworthy stuff."

– I have a very good reason for that question and I'll explain it after Flubber has answered.

If Ollie flips scum, Wgeurts (now Orcinus) is most probably town. If Ollie flips town, MathDino is almost sure town. (If Ollie flips scum, we can't be sure, see above!)

As for that forthcoming Vig-shot. If I were N3Vig, I'd keep two "pocket-reads" (a scumread which is unrevealed), one for a scum-Ollie flip, one for a town-Ollie flip. Reason: there are so many possibilities to dodge that kill.
But, most importantly, we're talking too much about this. Either I'm an idiot or there's not a single proof for having that role in the game.

Post-edit: Orcinus, I've been thinking about Adrien too and that's not a bad vote at all. However, you should post some reasons for it. Also, read Day3 so as to understand why Ollie is being wagoned.

[Aneninen]

Druuge and Flubber: please, answer this: where do you live? In Europe, in the USA or somewhere else?
This is VERY important.

Even if it doesn't change many things (most likely), I'm still waiting Flubber's answer for this.

Townies, DO NOT lynch anyone, not even Ollie quickly now!

After Flubber's answer I'll explain everything. The scums made a silly mistake and I think we're able to win the game from this point.

[Aneninen]

Flubber, care to answer my question? Where do you live? I mean the country.

[Aneninen]

Okay. Here are the things we should be aware of.

(1) The change in Ollie's posting style on Day3.

It took place between 1415 (time-tag: Dec 28, 11:04 am) and 1422 (time-tag: Dec 28, 8:02 pm). (Times are shown in GMT+1, since I live here. Unfortunately.) It's highly possible that he had a talk in the scum daychat before 1422 and the change shows it. He lives in England, which is GMT0. Most probably, he was able to be here between those two posts, or at least, there wasn't a night in England at that time.
The question is: who are the players who were unable to be here around 1415 but were able to arrive before 1422? That'swhy I needed the countries, even if I couldn't rule out anyone new based solely upon this.
The answer for this question is the following, starting with the

least likely

player:
– Wgeurts (he's Dutch, GMT+1 and also, general inactivity on the site)
– Formerfish (although he's in the US, was generally inactive not only at that time but also later as well)
– Farside (she posted at 1:22, therefore, he might have talked to Ollie earlier than 8:02 pm)
– Flubber (although inactive here, he was active around 1415 elsewhere on the site, so he was able to talk to Ollie earlier than 8:02 pm)
– AdrienC (not much is known about him, he was inactive at that time on the site but his previous vote is suspicious)
– Druuge (he arrived on that day later than 1422, although, he could be in here before, without posting)
– Green Crayons (he was site-active before 1415 and left afterwards)
– MathDino (he was here earlier than 1415 and posted before 1422)

(2) Is it possible that Ollie misunderstood the Vig shot made by MathDino in 1429?

Here are the answers we need. (quotes are in italics, check the post tags for original contexts)
– 1410

"Vote for flubbernugget then

vig me overnight

if he's town which I doubt."

– he says "overnight"!
– In 1412 he quoted the whole list of the possible roles.
– MathDino's 1429 contains a vote (using vote tag) and an un-bolded (!!!)

"Vig Ollie"

message.
– 7 minutes later, in 1430, Ollie responds:

"I knew you were the vig but thought you were gonna do me tonight lol"

– but he quoted the role list 28 posts before! So, the whole

"Doc out"

post is a lie!

In short: the answer for (2) is:

NO.

But, there's more here.
Check these from MathDino: 1456:

"Wait hang on did you think that was a dayvig O_O"

and 1457

"Seriously reconsidering Ollie wagon."

. It seems as if he gave the idea to Ollie for that faking... and both MathDino and Ollie had posts before this part but

after

1429
So... what's going on actually?

I'll continue the story in my next post. Hold on!

[Aneninen]

Let's see, what else we have.

(3) Votes for Alchemist

These players were on the Alchemist wagon on Day1: Flubber (random vote), Farside, Siveure, MathDino, Formerfish, AdrienC. The wagon topped at 5 votes, Farside, Flubber and AdrienC were there when the Siv-Lynch happened.
On Day2, only Farside and Flubber appeared.
It's not essentially a scumtell but AdrienC or MathDino (or both) might have gotten information about that slot so as to stay away from that wagon. See below!

Also, Alchemist can't have been in the Neighbourhood. Had he been, someone would have proven information about his Night1 investigation – or the lack of it.

(4)Anomalies in MathDino's read progression

Eg. check out these reads. (Originally I wanted to show my reads only, but it's better to show other things too.)
Day1, 730, along with his vote for Siveure:

"Will reread the game at night with the idea that Anen is town. If Siv flips town, we're gonna have issues."

– mind that he mentioned plenty of times that if Siveure flipped town I would be scum.
Day2, 774

"Also don't know why I'm being voted. Want to lynch in {Aneninen, Alchemist}. Need to reread game. Little time."

– Hmmm, so, we're still on his list?
Day2, 829

"Hypothesis I've been thinking about: The NK actually points pretty strongly to Alchemist and possibly Ankamius and DEFINITElY the two of them together not being scum."

– so, Alchemist is most probably not scum now, alongside with Ankamius (Ollie).
Day2, 932 – voting for Ankamius,

"Will explain more later

.
Day2, 933

"Also, Aneninen is town, fuck you if you ask why."

– starts townreading me...
Day2, 937, at his readlist:

"Aneninen: TOWN, F-CK YOUR WAGON"

– what happened in those 5 hours there? (Also, his Alchemist-read is weird too, just as his answer to Wgeurts in 938)
Day2, 940, next part of his readlist. Adrien is town, Formerfish is town, Wgeurts is not scum with Venrob (Green Crayons), the latter one is null.
Day2, 1136, votes for Victor and says

"Fuck the Ankamius wagon."

... but there was no real Ankamius wagon...
Withouh making an insane-long posts, I can say, there are many changes later as well.
Just one thing: in 1022, responding to Wgeurts, he calls me town. Yet again in eg. 1112. On Day3, 1347,

"I think theres def scum in the 1 and 2 people. Anen, Former, droog, Flubber, Adrien. And then wgeurts"

... if, according to him, I'm town, Formerfish is town, how is it possible? (Later he returns to the "Anen is town" scheme.)

(5) More about MathDino

– He starts Day3 with "self-confirming": Alchemist must have investigated him. But, this hasn't been confirmed by anyone else (and most probably, it' not possible to confirm it at all). This theory isn't worth much; what if Alchemist's investigation was Blocked?
– He launches a case against Ollie, but

the main scummy thing, namely: his protection sheme is silly, comes later in the thread!

. Later on, his attitude towards Ollie changes and it's him who provides reasons for it. (The most important one of these: Ollie could have thought that he was vig-shot. But, it's him who went on with this!)
– Check out the 1308–1311 part. He says that AdrienC townslipped (if I'm reading it right), but those posts around make no sense at all.
– He unvotes Ollie in 1314. Well, it would have been useful if we quick-lynched Ollie and would have been a quick-bussing from him... but, as the wagon started losing momentum, the best bet is to derail it completely? What if he's afraid of giving away associative tells? (I mean, if a quicklynch had happened, there wouldn't have been info on Day3 for town. But if there's useful information, it's better to go for a mislynch...?)
– And there are plenty of silly things. In 1335, he says that we're at MYLO and we're clearly not. 1341:

"As of yet there has been no evidence of scum roleblocking people. I'm rather sure Alchemist's night action went through."

– No evidence? If Ollie's scum he must be Roleblocker. If so, it's very likely that he blocked Alchemist since Davesaz was the kill at Night1... 1349

"IF THERE EXISTS A TOWN UNIVERSAL BACKUP, DO NOT JAILKEEP ANYONE TONIGHT, THANK YOU."

...either there's a Mafia Rolecop instead of that, or there's indeed a Town Backup who might block not only a townie but also... the Nightkill. And I've already given an answer for these: 1427

"I kinda want to lynch someone else tbh and leave Ollie to the vig..."

and 1437 (let's vote for the Vig-shot).
– Also, he seems to have

much more

information than a player at this gamestate usually has. He acts as if he knew there were a N3Vig. He acts as if he knew there were a Neighbourhood. How is it possible??!

________

In conclusion,

I'm way not convinced that MathDino is conf-town.

One of the possibilities is that he's scum with Ollie.

They lead the town intentionally, slowoly turning the early-Day3-bussing into a mislynch. (Whom? Wgeurts/Orcinus? Adrien? We'll see it.) MathDino owns way more info than he "could do normally". Either he's Mafia Neighbourizer (and pulling out infos from one or two Neighbours), or there's a Mafia Rolecop who has info on a N3Vig and someone else (? was it Alchemist?). It's even worse if Ollie is town (which I don't think). Or, he has a scum-buddy in the Neighbourhood who passes info to the scum-team. (In that case, it's possible that MathDino is a RoleCop.)
The other possibility is that MathDino is town after all and he's in a Neighbourhood and that'swhy he has that much info. But, in that case

there must be exactly one scum in the Neighbourhood

.
Why do I say this? Because, there are too few players who are questioning things about the possible setups, confirmed roles, etc. These players are less likely scum or being in the Neighbourhood since if they were, they would know more. By this latter part, I mean the following names: Druuge, Wgeurts/Orcinus, and maybe Green Crayons, Formerfish and Flubber.

Everyone: if you can confirm or deny my thoughs, do so!

In addition, I strongly think there should be a Mass-Claim tomorrow. (Starting with the latest draft, naming the role the player applied for.)

[Aneninen]

I would answer your post if I didn't think that you would bury my posts above with an endless dispute. Since I don't let you do so, I'll add the sentence which collapses your post instantly later.

[Aneninen]

Thanks for everyone, this was a good game to play.

Both the modding and the flavour were great.

Congratulations for the remaining townies, you were doing a good job.
FormerFish, you did it well too, it's not clear why you were killed.
Druuge, in my opinion you were one of the best townies here, actually you solved the game. ^_^

The scum team did it well too. Ollie simply outplayed me and forced me to make a serious mistake. (More about this topic in the dead thread.) I had a bad intuition about Farside but I switched it off. I shouldn't have done so. And Adrien has almost made it 'till the end...

By the way, my first theory (involving MathDino) was bullshyt, but my second one (there is too much information floating around in the thread so there must be a scum in the Neighbourhood – and the names given by me in that post) was eventually correct.

Thanks, everyone!
See you somewhere in Space/Time of MafiaScum!