Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)
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Grib Mafia Scum
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In post 47, Whatisswag wrote:In post 18, Grib wrote:I like for my first vote to be on someone I've played with before.
And why is that not me? I feel so sad.
Well, I can only vote for one person at a time.
Why are you worrying about the Masons and tossing around self-meta? It's more distracting than anything else.-
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In post 73, Riddleton wrote:In post 70, Grib wrote:No one should ever be happy with a Grib vote.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Green Crayons
Hi there, fellow Williamsburgite.
We're not in RVS anymore.
How else am I supposed to attempt interaction with people who haven't posted much? Should I wait for them to come running to me?
Mathdino, why. Just why.-
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Hydra = two people sharing an account. Hydra slipping is when they accidentally post from their main accounts.
Hypoclaiming is when we all claim as if we were all a particular PR, in case said PR dies. Their flip proves that their particular claim is the real one (I may be wrong here, I've never taken part in a hypoclaim). This prevents the real PR from claiming alone and getting shot right away.-
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In post 120, Green Crayons wrote:Hello. I live in Williamsburg, yes. Are you there because of undergrad, graduate school, or just life.
(I look forward to how our pleasant conversation about life outside of this game will inspire conversation relevant to this game.)
Undergrad shenanigans.
You focused on Swag and Corpses, what do you think of ILF?-
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In post 131, davesaz wrote:In post 67, Grib wrote:In post 47, Whatisswag wrote:In post 18, Grib wrote:I like for my first vote to be on someone I've played with before.
And why is that not me? I feel so sad.
Well, I can only vote for one person at a time.
Why are you worrying about the Masons and tossing around self-meta? It's more distracting than anything else.
Was there a satisfying answer to this question?
Nope.-
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If by "point" you mean "the rest of my teammates," then I'm all for patience.-
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In post 139, Green Crayons wrote:In post 137, Grib wrote:Green Eyes: what prompted you to do a full analysis of ILF's posts but only post generic thoughts on Corpses and Swag?
Is this a joke?
In post 124, Grib wrote:
Undergrad shenanigans.In post 120, Green Crayons wrote:Hello. I live in Williamsburg, yes. Are you there because of undergrad, graduate school, or just life.
(I look forward to how our pleasant conversation about life outside of this game will inspire conversation relevant to this game.)
You focused on Swag and Corpses, what do you think of ILF?
I never joke.
When I asked for your thoughts on ILF, I was expecting a post similar to the one on Corpses and Swag. I was just wondering why you went more in-depth with ILF.
In post 140, Green Crayons wrote:In post 138, Grib wrote:If by "point" you mean "the rest of my teammates," then I'm all for patience.
This strikes me as something scum would say, trying to be clever.
Do you really think that?-
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In post 142, Green Crayons wrote:I went more in-depth because I didn't have a coherent feeling towards Fairies. Hence the lack of any comment about her. The same goes for any other player I have yet to comment about. Your inquiry prompted me to solidify how I felt. I conveyed the process and end result, per request.
Yes. It's not a "slip" (I hate that buzzword) or anything of that magnitude, but it's a comment that looks more like clever scum than town.
Okay. Thank you for explaining.
I get that a lot. It's honestly a nulltell, and is more just my way of goofing off a bit. If you meta me, or if we play more games together, you'd see.
Are you saying cleverness is exclusively a scum trait?
In post 143, Green Crayons wrote:(Also how's undergrad life? I finished grad school here and am sticking around for job stuff until the end of this summer. The 'Burg is a perfectly fine place to live for a few years . . . but, holy shit, I'll be happy to head up to RVA before the end of 2015.)
Personally, I'm really enjoying it. Dormmates are all really cool, I have a nice circle of friends, I'm involved in a few clubs that help alleviate work stress, etc. The Cheese Shop is the only building that matters in the entire city.
In post 144, davesaz wrote:In post 141, Grib wrote:
In post 140, Green Crayons wrote:In post 138, Grib wrote:If by "point" you mean "the rest of my teammates," then I'm all for patience.
This strikes me as something scum would say, trying to be clever.
Do you really think that?
Do you always jump to conclusions about whether there is a point to a question or not, or only when you're scum?
What do you think?-
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In post 146, Green Crayons wrote:@Grib:
In post 145, Grib wrote:I get that a lot. It's honestly a nulltell, and is more just my way of goofing off a bit. If you meta me, or if we play more games together, you'd see.
1. You get what a lot?
2. What exactly would your meta show me?
Oh, just comments that look like "clever scum" rather than town. They crop up a lot.
What are you thinking about davesaz?-
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In post 155, awesomeusername wrote:I'm having trouble getting reads on Grib and GC because I keep getting them mixed up. The combined posts of mostly-black with green avatar seem pro-town to me, but I don't have much of a read on either yet.
In post 155, awesomeusername wrote:My early town reads are swag, GC, corpses, and riddle.
Did you catch something while writing this post that suddenly made Green Crayons a townread?-
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In post 150, Green Crayons wrote:(Also, don't overdo the Cheese Shop. I spent my first year here hitting that place up at least three times a week for lunch. And not only did my bank account hate me, but I really,reallydon't like eating there any more because I just overdid it. Even though it's where company always wants to eat when they visit. Be forewarned!
And enjoy undergrad. Good years, good times. Friends of mine who did undergrad here said it was a good place.)
I have a job, so setting a teeny bit of money aside for cheese probably won't come back to haunt me. All I ever really get is a quarter pound of whatever cheese and half a loaf of French bread because I'm boring.
But yeah I guess I could do with limiting the number of times I eat there per week. >_>-
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davesaz, I'll get back to killing you shortly.
VOTE: awesomeusername
Some things I'd like you to elaborate on:
In post 155, awesomeusername wrote:@swag: How strong are your reads? In other words, how subject to change do you think they will be? Also, do you still think Rubik was scum trying to get more pre-game talk given that he still hasn't posted?
What is the purpose of the first question, and why are you asking Whatisswag specifically? Feel free to wait until he answers your questions before you answer mine.
The shift in focus onto a player who seems to not have even confirmed with the mod yet feels very scummy. The game starts when 10/13 confirm, so even if someone attempted to stall, it would ultimately be out of their hands.
In post 155, awesomeusername wrote:I'm having trouble getting reads on Grib and GC because I keep getting them mixed up.
Yet you have a townread on Green Crayons, and seem to still be undecided on me.
If our avatars confuse you that much, you could just look at our names instead. They're very different.-
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In post 188, Green Crayons wrote:Telling masons to be "dropping tells that they're not masons (not enough to be scummy ofc)" has no actual value because that is the obvious, logical play of being a mason. However, it's an action that looks like it has value because Corpses is supporting a play that benefits masons staying alive. So it looks like Corpses is taking action to look like he's advocating for a protown strategy, when really he's just advocating for basic game play.
Okay, so you think it doesn't have any value. That's fair. But if you actually go back and look at the interaction as it occurred, Corpses' post was in response to what he perceived as Masonfishing on Whatisswag's part. It wasn't an unprompted "hey guys Masons should totallynotact like Masons duh" post.
In post 191, Cheetory6 wrote:What do you think of the points on whatisswag? I feel like you've danced around talking about him assuming I didn't just miss something in my readback.
Remind me what those points are?
In post 194, Kaboose wrote:I don't think he exactly said "Hey masons! Look like a couple of VTs yeah?!" I mean he said more along the lines of "Hey act scummy so we don't know you're masons, but not obvscum obviously." Like I see this as a great scum play. Tell the masons to act a certain way so you might be able to spot them, or so they act scummy and get lynched. That's what I see him attempting.
He said to drop tells that they aren't Masons, but yes, he also did mention that they shouldn't act too scummy.
I see it as null, along with directing PRs. Especially in this specific case, where he was telling the Masons to act in a way they should be acting. The reasoning here is bogus IMO, but what I actually dislike about the most this is Riddleton jumping on the wagon of someone he was townreading out of nowhere per your reasoning.
Riddleton: why? You said you liked Kaboose's reasoning, but it seems misguided at best. There wasn't anything to suggest you were even mildly suspicious of Corpses.-
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In post 200, Kaboose wrote:I'm always afraid to trim, because I don't want people thinking I'm hiding something. Is it okay to trim?
Of course it's okay to trim. It makes it easier to see which of my sentences you're responding to.
In post 200, Kaboose wrote:But if you had town read someone the whole game, and then someone points something out that you didn't notice, does that mean you'll let it slide because you haven't been looking that way? I don't understand why it was handled wrong, or why you think it was anyways. How do we play the game if we're only allowed to think someone is scum if we've thought they were scum before we thought they were scum?
Short of a straight scumslip or a scumfirm from the mod, if you're just going to jump on someone's wagon because of a point raised by someone else (and not a very good one, sorry), it looks fishy and makes me wonder how strong/genuine the original townread was. It's not "letting it slide," so much as giving your townread the benefit of the doubt, because you think they are town. It's not the same thing as "this person is town now and forever no matter what."
And like I said, Riddleton gave no indication that he was suspicious of Corpses. Following someone's train of thought and seeing how their reads evolve is important, because scum have an act to keep up. Letting people vote whomever they want without saying why just makes it that much easier for town to lose.-
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In post 203, Riddleton wrote:There wasn't anything to suggest you were even mildly suspicious of Corpses.
You're exactly right -- I wasn't suspicious of Corpses earlier. In fact I townread them. Kaboose and GC brought up some good points against Corpses in this thread that I was oblivious to earlier, and thus I'm blatantly sheeping them!
Kaboose's point sucks, and Green Crayons' is "I don't like their interactions with Whatisswag, and half of the hydra is present." Half of that isn't even really a reason.
What don't you like about the Corpses/Swag back-and-forth?-
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In post 205, Kaboose wrote:@GribOkay, sorry to put you through all that, but it seemed weird. Makes a little more sense now. Not that you need my permission, continue on.
Continue on with what?-
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In post 210, Cheetory6 wrote:I kind of got a little bit jumbled with the timeline of what was going on because I got a little too focused on Swag during my readthrough, so I guess a better question is why did you comment on elle/Kaboose and not on Riddleton who had three votes at the time in the quote I posted before?
Because I had a townread on him, and no reads on the other two.-
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In post 209, Grib wrote:Oh.
I don't know why you felt the need to tell me to go on with what I was already doing, but okay.
What do you think of davesaz and Green Crayons?
Hey Kaboose, in case you missed this.-
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I probably wouldn't have had much of a problem with your pressure on Whatisswag if it weren't for this. You voted him because he upset you, and now you're going back and suddenly finding reasons for him being scummy. It just seems more convenient/lazy than genuine.
And then you felt the need to explicitly justify it here:
In post 259, davesaz wrote:In case you haven't figured it out from my other posting, my vote is not currently an OMGUS. I'm seeing scummy things that have nothing to do with you incorrectly scum reading my playstyle.
when I'm pretty sure nobody accused you of OMGUS'ing.
Give me a read on elle with reasoning, when you get the time. I know you were asked this recently:
In post 271, davesaz wrote:In post 261, Cheetory6 wrote:davesaz wrote:If not, I'd like you to at least look over Elle and tell me what you think of her play thus far.
219 and 236 look reasonable, but there isn't really enough said to get a full read.
She has almost 30 posts. Surely there's something in there that makes you think she's leaning town or scum?
In post 310, Whatisswag wrote:Also, I will take note to not play with elle in future games as she has distorted logic.
How so?-
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In post 316, davesaz wrote:In post 312, Grib wrote:
Give me a read on elle with reasoning, when you get the time. I know you were asked this recently:
She has almost 30 posts. Surely there's something in there that makes you think she's leaning town or scum?
Null leaning scum. At the point in time of my previous answer, she was null-town. Since then the only things she has posted have been to take my side in my push on swag. She even asked if I thought her defending me was town or scum. This doesn't seem very town to me, it's like she wanted to know if it was safe to continue or not.
Are you going to push her? This looks like a great opportunity for a push.-
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In post 314, davesaz wrote:In post 312, Grib wrote:
I probably wouldn't have had much of a problem with your pressure on Whatisswag if it weren't for this. You voted him because he upset you, and now you're going back and suddenly finding reasons for him being scummy. It just seems more convenient/lazy than genuine.
And then you felt the need to explicitly justify it here:
In post 259, davesaz wrote:In case you haven't figured it out from my other posting, my vote is not currently an OMGUS. I'm seeing scummy things that have nothing to do with you incorrectly scum reading my playstyle.
when I'm pretty sure nobody accused you of OMGUS'ing.
1. I use an argument technique that I call disarming the opposition. It consists of anticipating things the opposition may use in rebuttal, and preempting them.
2. I put some of the other reasons in the same post, before the portion you quoted.
3. There is an inconsistency between how Whatisswag is treating my posting and several others who have done much less.
1. But you only handwaved the OMGUS after you went back to find justification for your reaction-fueled vote.
2. Yes, I saw them. What I'm questioning is whether you were inspired to start scumreading Whatisswag before or after he insulted you. There's no real way to prove it either way, so I'm going to drop it.
3. It's easier to interact with people who are trying to look like they're contributing (which I imagine is what he thinks you're doing) instead of lurkers.-
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UNVOTE:
In post 339, Kaboose wrote:Grib! I'm starting at the top of the VC. Do you still find awesomeusername scummy and deserving of your vote? I'll research the answer myself, but if you get a chance let's talk about him. We have a bit of a connection, you're voting awesome, awesome is voting me. I think you also told me I was stupid once or twice in this game. I don't like you for that. Oh and I haven't forgot, I'm going to get to your Green Crayons inquiry as well.
Hi there.
Not at all. In fact, I liked his response to me after I voted him and thought about unvoting him. But then I got caught up in trying to poke at other people (specifically you, dave, and elle (mostly by association, I'll interact with her directly at some point)), and sort of forgot about my vote on awesomeusername.
I believe I said one of your points sucked, not that you were stupid. Let's at least be accurate.
I'll be waiting.-
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In post 332, elleheathen wrote:In post 316, davesaz wrote:In post 312, Grib wrote:
Give me a read on elle with reasoning, when you get the time. I know you were asked this recently:
She has almost 30 posts. Surely there's something in there that makes you think she's leaning town or scum?
Null leaning scum. At the point in time of my previous answer, she was null-town. Since then the only things she has posted have been to take my side in my push on swag. She even asked if I thought her defending me was town or scum. This doesn't seem very town to me, it's like she wanted to know if it was safe to continue or not.
1) It was neveryourpush on swag. Telling someone to 'fuck off' isn't exactly a push on them.
2) Wanting to see if you'd actually commit to a read vs fence-sitting isn't town?
Eh. I'm too impatient. I don't like this post, and there's something else I want to look into.
VOTE: elleheathen
Hi elle. Could I trouble you for your current reads on Kaboose, davesaz, and Green Crayons?-
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In post 349, elleheathen wrote:It's right on 1/4, why not the others.
But yes, I get what you're saying and I even partially agree that it may be largely flawed due to the holidays. It's why I've amended that they're not in my vote pool fortodayunless I'mreaaaallysure they're scum.
What if someone tried to apply that same logic to, say, the first four on a lynch wagon?
And how sure is really sure? On Day 1, how sure is too sure? Point me to quotes or points that helped you form your reads, something concrete.-
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In post 358, elleheathen wrote:In post 351, Grib wrote:In post 349, elleheathen wrote:It's right on 1/4, why not the others.
But yes, I get what you're saying and I even partially agree that it may be largely flawed due to the holidays. It's why I've amended that they're not in my vote pool fortodayunless I'mreaaaallysure they're scum.
What if someone tried to apply that same logic to, say, the first four on a lynch wagon?
I don't see how thinking someone is more likely to be town for their actions pre-game start is at all the same as thinking someone is scummy enough for a lynch given in game information?
That was more towards your "it's right on 1/4 so why not the other 3?"-
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In post 359, Whatisswag wrote:In post 358, elleheathen wrote:
In post 351, Grib wrote:
And how sure is really sure? On Day 1, how sure is too sure? Point me to quotes or points that helped you form your reads, something concrete.
Reaaaally sure for me usually means I'd be willing to bet my lynch on it - ie, 1v1.
This is town.
Disagree.-
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In post 413, Green Crayons wrote:Finished the reread.
1. I feel less suspicious about Corpses's interaction with swag after my reread.
2. Grib's posting looks like solid town. He's catching things and articulating ideas that I am having upon reading the thread. Suggests that we're approaching the game from the same alignment mindset.
3. To a lesser extent, I get town vibes from awesome's and Kaboose's postings. Fairies is still a lean town read (don't know if I ever made that explicit from my earlier review of her play).
4. Cheetory's posts come from a much more mechanical stand point (if that makes any sense, I'm not sure it does; but it's the best way I can describe the "voice" of his posts), making it harder to discern alignment. Null read at the moment.
5. NJAC is completely MIA. Potential lurkerscum.
6. Riddle's interest in the game has dwindled down to inquiring as to an alt's main account. Helpful.
7. I don't like the elle/dave/swag interaction. There's something about each player in the context of this three person back and forth that strikes me as suspicious. Will go into more detail later after I tease out my thoughts a bit more.
8. I don't like the elle/Ranger interaction. There's something about each player in the context of this two person back and forth that strikes me as suspicious. Will go into more detail later after I tease out my thoughts a bit more.
So this is really interesting, as I'm having extremely similar thoughts. The only thing I really want further explained is why your read of Corpses changed?
I feel the same way about 2, 3, 5, 7, and 8. I liked Cheetory6's questions to Lone Ranger enough to townslot him.
Also, opinions on whether or not elle had a minor scumslip in 274? Anyone can answer, except maybe elle.
In post 274, elleheathen wrote:What do you think about my defense of you in #238?
Do you think I'm more likely to be scum trying to buddy you with it or town not wanting to see you lynched because of it?
Implying davesaz is town regardless of her own alignment.-
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In post 425, Lone Ranger wrote:I'm curious about the unanimous townreads on Cheetory due to his questioning of me. I think he's very likely town and I felt that his questioning was genuine too. But something doesn't feel right about the other's townreads. As in I'm comfortable reading Cheetory as town but I feel some players are jumping in to give easy townreads. His questioning of me was based on a misunderstanding. I fully believe that he believes what he is saying and is hence town. It is the people that are townreading him that concern me. I'm not sure if this is making sense but I'll come back to it at some point.
It makes sense.
Can you expand your scumread on awesomeusername with more than one post?-
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In post 442, Kaboose wrote:Oh man where do drafts go when I save them? I can't find what I had worked on at work.
User Control Panel > Overview tab > Manage Drafts-
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In post 447, Kaboose wrote:I like Grib, and Lone Ranger for townfolk. They've been applying the most pressure to people, and posting with the most reckless abandon. I really don't read their posts and think they've thought about each sentence as much as typing from their heart. Gosh that sounds sappy.
What? You don't read our posts?
In post 447, Kaboose wrote:I guess since I'm town reading Grib, I'll fall off of Corpses(I will tell you "I told you so" if the chance arrives later) I still have a gut feeling, but I'm okay falling off because I'm having issues with WhatIsSwag now. Dave and Elle are still on my scum list.
It's your own fault if your reasoning isn't convincing enough.-
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Grib Mafia Scum
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In post 457, Whatisswag wrote:Hmm, a total of 6 people have voted elle. elle has voted a total of 2 players. If no bussing has occured, then elle is likely town. But what is there was bussing... Do any of you think elle might be town because of the wagon?
She's voted three players: you, awesomeusername, and Lone Ranger.
What does bussing look like, in your experience?-
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In post 468, elleheathen wrote:I'm not scumreading you, am I?
I imagine it's difficult to find a reason to scumread someone who is "obvious town."
In post 468, elleheathen wrote:And I still don't like your implication that that's what I'm implying - so I guess we're even.
It's not an implication, it's a statement. Your post reads to me like you know davesaz is town. You buddied him, defended him, and now you're mad he isn't townreading you like he rightfully should be.
At least, that's how it comes across.-
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Grib Mafia Scum
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Grib Mafia Scum
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In post 480, Whatisswag wrote:In post 479, Grib wrote:Hey, NJAC, are you scum?
I dont really understand the point of this question.
Good thing I wasn't talking to you.-
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In post 482, Kaboose wrote:@Grib, that's a bold strategy. Le'ts see if it pays off. What did you think of him voting you and then admitting he hadn't finished his reading yet?
Voting someone before you've finished reading the thread is a nulltell (unless they "unknowingly" hop on a major wagon and put it in hammering range or something like that).
But I found these
In post 497, NJAC wrote:I'll be happy if we lynch scumGrib today. However I'm only on page 7 so don't take this too serious, I have to see how the universal townread on him develops.
In post 498, NJAC wrote:In post 479, Grib wrote:Hey, NJAC, are you scum?
Nope. But you already know that, right?
to be bad.
In post 492, NJAC wrote:Do you think that because most people think he's town, I should townread him too?
I'll give him this one, though. It's a fair point. But I'm town, so he should get with the program and look elsewhere for scum.
I'm not the one murdering innocent townies.-
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In post 144, davesaz wrote:Do you always jump to conclusions about whether there is a point to a question or not, or only when you're scum?
In post 377, elleheathen wrote:Do you typically like to wait until deadline to lynch - or just as scum?
I thought this was funny.-
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Whatisswag, I like you for town but for the love of God, please stop picking on awesomeusername and davesaz for lurking when NJAC is the king of null voids and empty promises.
In post 566, elleheathen wrote:The fact that I don't have a vote up atm should speak for itself.
Bzzzt.
Are you town, elle?-
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In post 187, NJAC wrote:Apologies for the absence. Will be reading and posting tonight...
In post 304, NJAC wrote:Sorry again for the absence. Tonight I'll read and post.
In post 402, NJAC wrote:Don't prod me. I'm planning to read and post a full analysis of the game. It will have to wait until the next year though.
BTW: Happy New Year everyone!
In post 436, NJAC wrote:Reading now...