Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

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VOTE: BTD6_maker

History suggests I'll be trying to get him lynched at some point today so I might as well get it over with.

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It's fine. Townhunting's an equally valid method as scumhunting and may bring even more spectacular results if done right. Especially in this setup. Don't feel forced to act according to meta if your method works for you.

Why especially in this setup?

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I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.

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@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

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What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave

him

?

Oops

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I'm also interested to know this. I didn't find Jesters interaction with Skold to be bad. If anything it reminded me of something an IC, or one of the more advanced players, would say in the newbie games.

If this were a newbie game and Jester were an IC I'd have no problem with it.

What I didn't like about Jester's post was that I don't see a town reason to make it. Skold is already going to do what he's going to do, he doesn't need Jester's permission, so the only purpose I can see for that post is buddying.

It could just be a pointless post by town but it was enough to make voting him better than a random vote.

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@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

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??? when did I say "I'm not scum because i'm new?" Anybody who thinks someone isn't scum because they are new are seriously misguided. Am I misunderstanding you?

It looks like you are.

I wrote

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

You responded

New to MafiaScum and some of your abbreviations, but not exactly new to mafia. Thanks though.

That is, I gave a reason that your entry shouldn't be seen as scummy and you shot it down by saying you're not really a new player.

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given) but I want Blackstar's opinion on it since he's the one who seems to be hard-scumreading you right now. Ideally I would have gotten Blackstar's opinion before anyone else responded, but it's too late for that now.

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A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still

more likely

to come from town.

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Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

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Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.

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@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

Even though I don't want to argue this point with Mimikyu right now I still want your opinion on it.

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VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

I'm a bit suspicious of Blackstar as well but in my past experience (Newbie 1661, Blitz 15) he's looked pretty scummy as town and been an easy mislynch. It's relatively old meta, and it doesn't mean he's town this time, but I'm going to need more than one bad case to read him on.

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It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons

Can you share those reasons?

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This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).

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Defcon 5 is actually the lowest.

Seriously though, 5/10 sounds about as strong as I ever get in most games. Maybe we're just using the scale differently though? You're the one who quoted it along with saying you're not hard-scunreading Aubrey so obviously you don't think it's a contradiction.

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Let's go Bayesian with this.

If you took every scenario where you held a read as strong as your current read on Aubrey, what percent of the time do you expect that person would actually flip scum?

(I wouldn't call a read 10/10 unless that number were damn close to 100%.)

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VOTE: BlackStar

His latest posts are just awful. I particularly dislike 158. Zach's critique is perfectly clear and certainly not nonsense regardless of how much he dislikes it.

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I explained this in my last post, it's the need to strawman and doubtcast on Zach instead of just saying "It wasn't really a strong read, drop it."

Firstly, if everyone thinks you have a fairly strong scumread when you don't, maybe the problem is with something you wrote and not that everyone else sucks at reading. But even setting that aside, his response seeks to deflect Zach's actual statement which is that Aubrey's entrance didn't justify any sort of scumread at all,

let alone

a strong read, and that his looks like an opportunistic push on someone with a slightly unusual style.

Instead of answering that, he says Zach is falsely accusing him of going aggro on Aubrey (a much easier claim to rebut than what Zach actually said), every post Zach has made is nonsense (would you like to back that up, BlackStar?), and hints that he is arguing in bad faith. Then he says we're all stopping him from scumhunting as if the current conversation has eliminated his ability to read or write anything else.

All of this reads as if he doesn't have a real response but feels the need to respond.

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Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

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(Not that I'm complaining about not having to deal with a 50-page monstrosity of a D1)

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And speaking of early strong scumreads:

VOTE: Skold

Okay, so this is scum. I legit scumread every post they've made thus far. Something is just wrong here and it is the colour of their role PM.

Join me!

You haven't really talked at all about this read since you gave it on page 2. Can you go into more detail and also say how this read has progressed since then?

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Pedit: Aubrey, I'm about to go to lunch and haven't really thought much about Jester lately, I'll answer you in a bit.

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Mixed feelings on Jester. I didn't like his intro as I already said. I pretty much agreed with his thoughts in 68 and his thoughts on Aubrey/Mimikyu. His 190 at first seems like a reach to me but I don't see any reason scum!Jester would reach for a reason to scumread Aubrey at that point when he hasn't been so much as leaning scum there before, so it's probably a genuine opinion (though could of course be a genuine wolfread from mafia or vice-versa).

Overall null, which is annoying because I kind of expected to form a stronger opinion there.

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Dunn is always tunneling Zach, I wouldn't make anything of it myself. When someone says they're "40% sure" as the basis for a vote it's kind of dumb to take it seriously.

You called me out in tic tac toe mafia too for "being too analytical"

Honestly I forgot you were in that game. I think I was mostly joking though (and that was a fairly weird setup in that it encouraged lynching people you didn't really think were scum).

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum.

Page 8 is way too soon to have a strong scumread, but page 10 is just right.

Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

MeowMix's entrance didn't exactly give me a warm feeling but it did give me a new perspective on Gamma, which qualifies as "doing something." Re. "no effort to comment on anything else," do you actually believe this is a scumtell?

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Who spoke of strength?

You said flatly "He's scum." That means you think I'm probably scum, though you seem pretty uninterested in making this case. See 120 where you're just like "read my other posts" when Aubrey asks you to explain your read.

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

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VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

(Interestingly, his reversal on Aubrey and scumread on MeowMix both came right after they said they had a problem with Gamma. It's obviously too early to seriously hunt for associations but I want to note this for future reference.)

Secondly, he's given a lot of general opinions on good and bad ways to scumhunt, and if he's scum I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "bad ways" are the ones that would point to him

or his teammate.

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On an off-topic note, anyone who finds Zach abrasive can't have played many games here. I had to go back to see what you were talking about.

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Pedit:

Gamma, why did you quote my post there? Your question has nothing to do with it really.

Also, no I don't.

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@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

"Too smug" is kind of a judgment call.

And yeah I guess it is, but I'm pretty desensitized to it by now. You've been on MS exactly as long as I have, aren't you?

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I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.

I read this like 50 times and I have no idea what you're getting at.

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Please remove the statements you don't believe:

• Aubrey is scummy
  
• BlackStar is scummy
  
• Everyone who has attacked BlackStar is scummy

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Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

You heard it here, folks. After 72 hours it's too late to bring in a new read.

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Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

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Way to dodge.

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Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

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Re. Gamma: I think MeowMix made some decent points about him. He seems more interested in asking what everyone else thinks than in saying what he thinks, which I don't love. In general I'm suspicious of anything that looks like putting out feelers for consensus opinion before offering one's own.

He's probably town (just because

a priori

any given player is probably town), but I wouldn't want to put money on it.

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So did you think it was a reaction test or did you think it was scum looking for permission to vote you?

I changed my mind, Gamma is probably not town. His new responses just seem like he felt under heavy pressure from a single vote by a single player, which is the most classic scumtell of all time.

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Also MeowMix is presumably town (though this is partially based on my Gamma/Mimikyu reads).

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derpscum is a thing, albeit not as much as derptown is

Okay, I guess we can be best friends. (Was about to post that but saw you already had.)

There's this assumption I always see thrown around that scum are cunning and manipulative and highly self-controlled. Scum have all the cunning it takes to be randomly selected by the mod.

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SS, I'd like you to explain those reads more because they're like the complete opposite of mine (except I haven't really had any thoughts on Ari yet).

Pedit: Zach, my vote is still on Mimikyu.

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Can you post a reads list, Umlaut?

Forgot about this. I'm phone posting now so this is off the cuff.

Town:

Zach, Meow, Aubrey

Null:

Jester, Dunn, Skold, Ari, SS, BTD

Scum:

Gamma, Mimikyu, Blackstar

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Losing confidence on BlackStar though

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"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

Sorry Zach, you're on your own with Mimikyu now.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Anyone not voting Gamma, ask yourself if this is how a town player self-identifies.

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you really let me down though, umlaut. why can't we lynch mimikyu ? why have you forsaken me so?

Zach posted this and then I responded that no, I hadn't forsaken him, I was still voting Mimikyu. I posted that because it struck me funny that I that I then did go and forsake him a short time later.

Re. the latter point, I'll take that into consideration. It still looks to me like he's willing to accept any perspective that paints him as town even if it implies he's a terrible player, which is not a town trait.

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I agree Blackstar has held onto his position in a way that's kind of townish, but a much better reason for dropping my focus on him is that I want to see this awesome scumhunting he would have been doing if not for being under so much pressure.

I didn't read his vote on me as an OMGUS since it came quite a bit later than my vote on him. I did think it was kind of bad since he's sheeping Mimikyu when Mimikyu has never really given any adequate reason for a scumread on me, but I'm specifically trying to lay off him so I saw no reason to bring that up.

I have towny feelings about SS, but I need him to explain what's so great about 161 because I feel like anyone could write that post.

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I'm okay with someone reading BlackStar as "frustrated lynchbait" because he actually has been lynchbait in my experience. But personally, in the game where we were both town, I was one of the ones defending him, so whatever lynch-me pheromones he usually exudes I have reason to think I'm resistant to them.

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...so you did. Don't know why I remembered that the other way around.

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Sure, anyone could write it; that's not the point. I think scum would be afraid to say it for two reasons: one, it sounds so OMGUS-y on the surface that they think it would make them look bad; and two, it is an argument that is heavily predicated on its user being town, and scum try to make arguments that look reasonable and just happen to be wrong-- it's kind of hard to explain.

I feel like I'm just as willing to make "I'm town, therefore..." arguments as either alignment. (Specifically I make them when I'm trying to explain my reads but not when I'm trying to push them.)

I agree with Zach that Jester's point about Blackstar goes way beyond reachy. Not sure whether it's something to scumread him for though, people make bad arguments all the time.

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I kind of wish BTD would just say "I'm always like this" because, well, he is.

BTD, do you not find it hypocritical to vote Gamma because "lurking is anti-town" while saying people oughtn't to scumread you for lurking?

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Not well and also swamped, V/LA until further notice.

Not going 100% inactive but not going to make much of an effort to keep up, either.

Luckily my reads haven't really changed since my last read list. Still null on BTD, haven't seen anything that would move me after correcting for my history of falsely scumreading him.

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Zach, do you have any insight into Dunn's alignment? I feel like you probably have the most experience with him of anyone here but you haven't really offered a read there.

You pointed out that no one will call him out on his behavior (namely death-tunneling you every game) but have you noticed any difference in how he does this in town vs. scum games, and if so what does this occasion look like to you?

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I've noticed that people just write him off as town, though, as opposed to trying to read that. At least it comes off as such. Which is what irritates me. Is it that lovable avi?

I don't know if this is true. He got lynched D1 in our last game together, though as I said earlier that was a fairly unusual setup; and he seems to be getting some heat in this game as well.

But it sounds like you're scumreading him then?

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Paying attention again.

Going to reread the last few pages at least and also reread Gamma to make sure I'm not missing some big towntell because as far as I'm concerned he's still the best lynch.

Hi, Yakko, why are you voting Zach? He's a town lean for me, and also you've given some reasons why you think Aristo is scum but none for why you think Zack is scum.

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I like Yakko's entrance too (and never really found Skold all that scummy anyway).

Aristo, are you really casting shade on Skold for not townhunting when what he did instead was flake out of the game?

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I'm having a little trouble getting my head back into the game right now. I know that's terrible this close to deadline but that's what's happening.

One thing I just remembered: SS, quite a while back you said re. your Ari scumread that

Ari is meta from having played with him as town and having read some of his scumgames (including the recent 09:12 that you were in).

That's the only game I've played with Ari and I completely failed to scumread him there (picked him out purely by PoE in the end), so could you elaborate more on how his play in that game is similar to this one and dissimilar to his town games?

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I forgot that there's 2 factions

Trying to decide how plausible this is. (I don't get how you can sign up for an open setup and then forget how the setup works, but people seem to do it all the time.) Meanwhile, though, does it make you feel any better about the Gamma wagon?

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Then you must have some other reason for thinking Gamma is a mislynch besides the number of people opposing his lynch.

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Not exactly (it's pretty full anyway), just trying to understand why you didn't get back on it yourself once your only stated objection to it was answered.

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That's a good answer actually

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I'd have to reread him. I remember having a town lean on him for his entry and I'm still kind of gutting town on him, but I appreciate the points you're making right now.

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These posts

Sorry Zach, you're on your own with Mimikyu now.

this line weirds me out and I can't quite wrap my head around why

I think it's something along the lines of, you're viewing lynches as tasks that need to be done (as scum do), rather than as dynamic options that need to be analyzed.

also ftr, I used to self-identify like Gamma did when I was newer.

I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason... maybe I was thinking of Umlaut's Mimikyu vote. I told you I kept getting distracted
When replacing in I operate much better going forward then going backward (that's why I wanted to be in this game from the beginning).

anyway @Umlaut that makes a lot more sense now that I read it in that context. Your Gamma push is still very weak though.

just seem to come from a town mindset for me, though I'm having trouble articulating why. He brings up a couple of concerns and then is happy to drop them once they're addressed, it doesn't seem like he's trying to force anything. I know this isn't enough basis for a strong townread but it felt good to me.

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I like the fact that the both of you are double guessing your reads on Gamma. It seems townie. I doubt scum would buss/push Gamma this close to getting lynched then suddenly back off. Not only is it super risky to bus this early as scum, but I feel like scum would commit to the bussing instead of backing off as well. Further more, if you two were scum looking to hunt other scum, I feel as if you would commit to the Gamma lynching even if you begin to have doubts regarding how scummy they may actually be. Any kill is beneficial to you as long as it isn't one of your own. In short, lynch the possible scum/town player, then night kill your other/stronger scum reads that developed later in the day phase.

You both have good town leans for me.

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

I don't see how this is odd at all. There's nothing inconsistent or even troublesome about scumreading Gamma while townreading someone for doing otherwise, especially not when Gamma is by far the leading wagon right now.

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VOTE: Dunnstral

Actually in agreement with Gamma here about the opportunism. Eyeing Zach as well.

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I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

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hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

What does this mean for your read on me?

This is something really special.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

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Bad news: I am unable to use the computer my reads list is on right now, so it will have to wait. Sorry for the inconvenience.
@Vax: I'm pretty much the lynch du jour at this point.

Not only were you no longer the leading wagon (and Creature had just posted a vote count making this obvious), no one was even talking about you u til you jumped in to get hyperdefensive over one throwaway line of a post that wasn't really about you.

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I said that thing because I didn't feel it had actually become a counterwagon at that point; everyone was pretty much off voting wherever or on me.

There were two votes on you and five on Dunn. That's not even a counterwagon, that's the wagon.

Thinking two votes on you puts you closer to a lynch than five on someone else puts them is the most fundamental of all scumtells.

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I can see either alignment attempting to correct something, no matter how small, if they feel like it misrepresents them.

Fair enough, but that was also the

only

thing he brought up from that post. Combined with basically asking Zach "But you still townread me, right, bro?" it seems his only concern with reading the game is to make sure he responds to anything that might look bad for him.

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Does a Zach/Dunn scumteam ping for anyone?

It seems like a stretch based on surface activity, but it somehow makes sense to me. Dunn tunnels Zach because he always tunnels Zach, but doesn't seem interested in actually convincing anyone to follow along. Zach calls out Dunn because he always calls out Dunn, but doesn't seem to know where to place himself with regard to the wagon---says it's a bad wagon but won't say he's townreading or even null on its target. (Surely lynching scum is more valuable than forming wagons in the most virtuous manner?) Zach has been disdaining the Gamma wagon, but when the alternative is Dunn that pisses him off even more. This could be scum looking for a way to save his buddy after inadvertently closing off his two most viable means (pushing a townread on Dunn, or pushing a scumread on his counterwagon).

I'm more spitballing here than saying "this is what's going on," but I find it compelling enough that I'd like to bounce it off y'all.

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I disagree. You should hunt for the partner so you have one less nightkill to worry about.

I agree with this actually, but I think that will come naturally from just trying to lynch the guy who's most likely to be scum. (When looking for the partner we have associations to help us, so in principle they should be easier to find than someone on the other team.)

Also, stop making up reasons to scumread me, I'm sure you can find something I actually did instead of "trying to keep people quiet."

Pedit:

Oh, you replied to Aubrey. So... it's because I wanted other people not to answer the question I asked Blackstar before he did. And this made me your top scumread? Okay then.

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If you want I can quote posts that seem aggro.

If you actually wanted to push a lynch on me you'd case me without waiting for a prompt.

[Ümläüt]

Flippantly attacks me here, I don't know exactly what this indicates but it feels scummy.

How is that an attack

or

flippant?

[Ümläüt]

Dumb question, why would scum try and start a new bandwagon now instead of just latching onto a campaign that already has a backing and support? This seems like such a bad scum move if he is in fact scum.

I assume you're talking about Dunn since that's the only other major wagon we've had recently. It actually would make sense if he's trying to get townpoints for not being 'opportunistic' and expects Dunn to flip town. It's actually a lot safer as scum to push on someone who isn't likely to flip anytime soon.

Personally, if I were in his shoes as town I'd happily vote my lesser scumread if they were more lynchable.