Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[lilith2013]

uh.... that it's a setup? I have zero experience balancing setups and I'm not mechanically oriented, so you could give me any setup and no matter how unbalanced or swingy it was, I'd look at it and probably be like "oh yeah that looks cool"

self-deprecation aside, I think the currently claimed town power is pretty huge and either requires a large advantage for scum in the form of several PRs or maybe even a fourth member (please god no), or involves someone lying.

[lilith2013]

who's scum then?

[lilith2013]

he's trolling

[lilith2013]

as I've said before - I'm town. I really think mwnn is town, and therefore nm is town. -> {duck, una, iv, billy} I do think una is probably town and I want to trust SS' reads -> {duck, iv, billy}

I don't think duck is scum though. mwnn would have been a really easy target for duck to push today given that 1) duck said D3 that if shelly flipped town, mwnn was definitely scum; and 2) mwnn has repeatedly offered himself for elimination. It makes zero sense for scum!duck to take mwnn out of his possible target pool by linking meta and basically towncasing mwnn. -> my current solve is iv/billy which feels ????? but idk. I know people are townreading billy but I just have had 0 read on that slot for ages and I don't know what else the solve could be. I've also been asking duck to explain why he thinks billy is town and haven't gotten anything from him yet soooo

maybe it is just duck/iv.

[lilith2013]

so I'm back to {duck, una, iv, billy} and mostly una is out of the poe so it's kind of down to {duck, iv, billy}

[lilith2013]

omg wait

[lilith2013]

D1!duck: "iv is so town"
D2!duck, when other people are like "what's towny about iv": "oh I don't remember" *votes froppy, who voted iv*
D3!duck, when someone else pointed out that iv could be scum: "oh yeah iv's associatives with zombie are hot garbage"
D4!duck, when other people are now wanting to eliminate iv: "but no one is resisting so he can't be scum!" (except duck is in fact resisting by saying that)


duck/iv team??????????????????????????????????????????????

[lilith2013]

D1!duck: "iv is so town"
D2!duck, when other people are like "what's towny about iv": "oh I don't remember" *votes froppy, who voted iv*
D3!duck, when someone else pointed out that iv could be scum: "oh yeah iv's associatives with zombie are hot garbage"

*doesn't vote iv or push him at all*

D4!duck, when other people are now wanting to eliminate iv: "but no one is resisting so he can't be scum!" (except duck is in fact resisting by saying that)


duck/iv team??????????????????????????????????????????????

added a sentence to D3

[lilith2013]

ugh I want to townread duck so badly though

[lilith2013]

what?

[lilith2013]

wild spinball crackpot tinfoil hotshot-theories are all I've got to make this game make any sense

[lilith2013]

I don't really trust myself at this point. should I have trusted my D1 gut and pushed duck a lot harder? should I trust my D2 self who saw genuineness in duck? should I trust my D4 self who is like "who tf are scum?????" how much paranoia is too much paranoia?

[lilith2013]

wild spinball crackpot tinfoil hotshot-theories are all I've got to make this game make any sense

Yea, and I'm like almost not-joking, but think about it.
If you were to be scum and

Informed

, and your information tells you that there's a rolecop about.
It would make sense to come up with a crumb for your actual role from the get go.
Did ZombieRP claim any crumbs for their scum-role?

btw I did already posit that scum!four could have been informed and like informed that NM was vanilla (existence of a rolecop would also work); and that fits with the scum-PR results of n2 & n3 neapolitan since the informed can kind of take the place of a n1 result?

[lilith2013]

zombie talking about his crumbs (the original post is 6th in his iso)

I personally thought this post was a masterpiece but it seems to have gone over everyone's heads

Radio static

I was right, the duckling had wondered into the library. We're now heading to the

police station

in hopes of answers. The duck is sitting on my shoulder, it didn't wan to go in my pocket, as it's too slow at walking.

Radio static

Some time later

Radio static

We've arrived at the station and it's a rather strange sight. It appears an

ice cream truck

has crashed into it breaking the doors open. How helpful. Unfortunately it seems like the music is stuck playing, this could get annoying.

The records room! Just what I was looking for. This looks like an interesting file.

Radio static

The pondering of

Commander Mendeleev

on people of note

Lieutenant Lilith

Been on the force for almost 5 years. Has a good work/play balance while on duty that the officers respect. Could be up for promotion soon. A good egg. Has trouble with trains.
It would be good to find out their views on IV.

TheFourEyedDude

Been in for questioning multiple times. Hard to break. Does say very relatable things like:

It's times like these I regret not being on my main as the joke I want to make is out of character for me.

Sirius9121

Insufficient data

Innocentvillager

A rambunctious fellow. Thought to have broken into the science facility and released parasites into the water stream. From my past experience with them, this sort of energy of breaking into a high security facility and breaking things is in character but it is unknown if this act was intentional or not. IV is considered suspicious and hostile for the time being.

Billy “The Slaughterer” Pilgrim

Most popular butcher in town. A retrospective man who doesn’t give much away.

UnaBombaH

Budding trainee to the force. It will be good to see what they bring to the table.

NorwegianboyEE

In the past when a crime is committed I bring norwee into custody for questioning. I just find them very shifty. Recently, however, it seems he is more on the straight and narrow. There could be a bright future for this one.

Constable Nepenthes

A similar soul to my own. The way she goes about her job is, in my eyes, reminiscent of my own style. Others may find it unorthodox, but it worked for me and it’ll work for her. Fine example of the force.

Scientist Sausage

Has been uncharacteristically helpful as of late. I’m used to not getting along with Sausage but I’m agreeing more and more with what he says. I like this change of character.

Something_Smart

Can’t help but enjoy playing poker with this guy. I wonder if they got my note asking about Larvar.

LavarManos

Not the most helpful officer.

the worst

The mascot of the station. Everyone loves his fluffy feathers and enjoyable quacking.

El

Highly elusive. Wanted for questioning regarding the monthly fireworks displays on

the 2nd and 3rd of each month

.

masterpiece

it was but what are you like.. claiming

So is this some sort of cop claim? What does the ice cream mean? And gated to n2 and n3?

I'm a night 2, 3 neapolitan cop
because neopolitan ice cream

[lilith2013]

also as I pointed out on like D3, duck immediately unvoted zombie and revoted nepenthes after zombie claimed, even though he later admitted that neapolitan was not necessarily a town role

[lilith2013]

and I think duck also admitted that he saw SS's post about zombie as a guilty? I'm not sure on that but if so, it makes even less sense for him to unvote zombie there

[lilith2013]

man I think I talked myself back into scumreading duck

[lilith2013]

D1!duck: "iv is so town"
D2!duck, when other people are like "what's towny about iv": "oh I don't remember" *votes froppy, who voted iv*
D3!duck, when someone else pointed out that iv could be scum: "oh yeah iv's associatives with zombie are hot garbage"
D4!duck, when other people are now wanting to eliminate iv: "but no one is resisting so he can't be scum!" (except duck is in fact resisting by saying that)


duck/iv team??????????????????????????????????????????????

You’re wrong but this did kind of remind me on how much worsty has flip flopped on me despite me being a fairly easy read for him? Idk, could just be a function of the PoE and how well the deep wolves are playing but it’s still a little weird

what deepwolves?

[lilith2013]

wasn't iv's scumgame, like, kinda good?

[lilith2013]

idk. I have to actually go do work now and not procrastinate so I'll try to be back later tonight.

[lilith2013]

he already admitted he was trolling

i'm like almost 100% sure lilith is scum

You've actually been thinking this for a while right?
And just didn't want to straight up say it D3?
Or am I wrong?

you would be incorrect on that one

[lilith2013]

I keep asking for opinions on SS' una read

can you quote where you did this? I don't remember that happening

[lilith2013]

I don't remember that..

[lilith2013]

?? where is his answer? I really can't find it

[lilith2013]

I'm kinda down to vote duck but I'm very afraid if he's green we're totally fucked

[lilith2013]

can you explain what about iv's posts today make you think he is trying to solve? all I remember is him responding to other people's questions

[lilith2013]

I feel kind of ok with town!billy. like I think somewhere around

SS


duck
billy
una/iv/nm
four
froppy

You really feel set on BuDucky?
I feel like this puts you in a corner D4 if you are scum.
And I hope someone will hold you to this if I'm not able to do so.

una, you kind of implied that you would find it suspicious if I flipped back to scumreading duck today, but I haven't seen any hint that you're scumreading me. can you explain what your thought process was when you said this post, and why haven't you questioned me for flip flopping on scumreading him today?

[lilith2013]

the words were kind of bad but the thought got out. whatever. I'm going to bed now.

[lilith2013]

I'm super underwhelmed by all of those posts

[lilith2013]

uh, no offense iv

[lilith2013]

no

[lilith2013]

how are the thoughts he has towny? what makes them genuine and not fake?

[lilith2013]

wtf are you talking about? plenty of people have discussed their POEs. The only people who haven’t are iv (whose POE is “everyone except nm”), duck (who has explicitly not posted a POE), and nm (who is, well, NM). Do you actually scumread mwnn or are you just trying to policy eliminate him?

Forming a 3-person PoE for me is quite difficult atm. Hear me out.

I'd start by removing myself obviously to make it 6 remaining.
Then, if you agree with me and accept MWNN as town, you also have to eliminate N_M on the side. Leaving us with 4 remaining.
And out of the four, I can't honestly say if I'm able to differentiate between lilith/Billy to leave one more "definitely out of the PoE".
Simply because I do not think either is scum, and the remaining two both are.

And this is how I've been approaching the solve for a while now, hence why I'm still thinking it's IV+Ducky and no 3rd slot is required in the "PoE".

so I'm back to {duck, una, iv, billy} and mostly una is out of the poe so it's kind of down to {duck, iv, billy}

also as I pointed out on like D3, duck immediately unvoted zombie and revoted nepenthes after zombie claimed, even though he later admitted that neapolitan was not necessarily a town role

I feel like he, in particular in this playerlist, would know that a neapolitan and a rolecop on the same side make no sense, too.

I just think it's worst/iv at this point, but at the same time... I was wrong on a much more confident scum read yesterday.

I do want to hear his "100% lilith scum" case.

[lilith2013]

go against the grain?

what in iv's posting has gone against the grain?

[lilith2013]

clearly, yes.

[lilith2013]

so I'm back to {duck, una, iv, billy} and mostly una is out of the poe so it's kind of down to {duck, iv, billy}

[lilith2013]

like.... are you reading any of my posts????

[lilith2013]

what about duck has been towny to you?

[lilith2013]

I'm looking for an actual towncase.

[lilith2013]

Like, I think the crux of our current disagreement on worsty is just that you think he is scummy for the same reason I find him towny

no, it's that you're like "oh he's obvtown" without explaining why, and questioning why other people don't think he's town but not supporting your townreading him with reasoning, and "that doesn't seem like something scum!duck would do" when I know scum!duck can and would do things that are suboptimal for scum.

[lilith2013]

the progressions from worsty are believable and the trajectories indicate a solving mindset, in broad terms.

this is exactly what he said about you btw.

why is it that the two of you believe each other to have a solving mindset and yet seem to so weirdly not have strong reads on the other?

[lilith2013]

I don't believe that duck actually believes mwnn is scum

[lilith2013]

I also don’t think anyone realistically thinks I’m scum the way billy seems to be weirdly side-scumreading me, but it’s such a bad take that idk how to read it.

[lilith2013]

so I'm back to {duck, una, iv, billy} and mostly una is out of the poe so it's kind of down to {duck, iv, billy}

If you've explained why you think MWNN is town here, could you point me to it? Because hell I'll give you your three person poe including me if you sell me on that. And you can have me first. I just don't wanna lose to scum!MWNN when I kinda thought he was scum since day 1 before the claim. And while I think the claim is a weird one for scum, I dont think it can't come from scum. Amd him saying earlier that NM being alive is an insurance policy for him is sorta concerning... Look, you sell me on him being town, and then my only hangup is the possibility that you're scum. And I think the only way I'd end up voting you is if you were in 3p ELO with me and Una or a conf!town NM. Im voting for IV and duck over you everytime. So you sell me on him and we can elim IV and ducky.

Look, if Una's scum im a liability. I dont see a scum role that checks the claimed pr N1 aside from roleblocker/rolecop. And I dont think that theres a setup with a scum and town rolecop. If someone thinks I'm wrong on either of those please let me know.

it was mostly because of mwnn's reaction to me pushing him D3, it felt like genuine frustration.

[lilith2013]

but also I reread my posts about him when I was trying to find my thoughts on why he was town and I'm not really vibing my townread anymore. I do think he's playing more to his town meta according to the games duck linked, but beyond that I'm now back to "meh"

[lilith2013]

well fuck, my poe is now everyone except maybe una.

[lilith2013]

here's what I remember about four:
- immediately joined the zombie wagon when SS voted there and then didn't leave (although I think iv and I both did the same thing so am not sure if this is scum indicative)
- voted shelly
- frustration when I pushed him

and that's pretty much it.

[lilith2013]

I think duck's positioning around zombie was way more suspect and I think duck saying that iv's interactions with zombie were hot garbage and then just not pushing iv at all ----> either iv or duck or both are scum.

[lilith2013]

duck, why did you revote nepenthes after zombie claimed? I still haven't gotten an answer from you on that.

[lilith2013]

Lilith is playing this phase as town I think? or she's shed any semblance of posturing or agenda entering this phase with a rly convincing solving mindset idk I know conventional wisdom says to ignore everything that happens before Xylo. We aren't in xylo. I don't think scum have an easy time pretending to give a fuck about this phase.

Weirdly I'm kinda ditto on IV again? I think he's probably solving. If he's spent this long werkin a tw pocket then I think ditching it to go for my mis-elim when there are zero (0) votes on me would be a fairly questionable decision

Una has one read and my god will he not settle down until it's heard. Idrc if he's town or scum atp, he's playing a scumgame. I keep asking for opinions on SS' una read. I think point 1 is valid and the rest are extremely fallible by someone playing a half decent fakeclaim. I think SS believed it. One of my fav tricks as scum is ramping up my NK equity then acting flabbergasted when I'm still alive lategame. I don't really think any of this is outside of the scope of Una's mechplay.

I don't remember why I townread billy, I think his late D1 was good. He doesn't give a shit about this phase.

MWNN's reaction to being townread was,

nothing

when I'd seriously expect a sigh of relief from town!him who's been marched up to the gallows for such a long time. His meta is w/e, his greatest towntell is perplexed sass when confronted by nonsense which he has none of. Alongside offering a meta towncase I've asked him input on about 8000 subjects to try and get him to alignment tell. I have received no solving in response, but a jump to posturing the popular scumteam of the last 10 posts. He doesn't give a shit about this phase.

NM I don't care about

am not sure I like this post. does it actually say anything?

[lilith2013]

Lilith is playing this phase as town I think? or she's shed any semblance of posturing or agenda entering this phase with a rly convincing solving mindset idk I know conventional wisdom says to ignore everything that happens before Xylo. We aren't in xylo. I don't think scum have an easy time pretending to give a fuck about this phase.

how would ignoring everything that happens before XYLO affect your read on me? why make this comment?

Weirdly I'm kinda ditto on IV again? I think he's probably solving. If he's spent this long werkin a tw pocket then I think ditching it to go for my mis-elim when there are zero (0) votes on me would be a fairly questionable decision

where has he ditched it to try to eliminate you? he's been soft-defending you like all day phase

Una has one read and my god will he not settle down until it's heard. Idrc if he's town or scum atp, he's playing a scumgame. I keep asking for opinions on SS' una read. I think point 1 is valid and the rest are extremely fallible by someone playing a half decent fakeclaim. I think SS believed it. One of my fav tricks as scum is ramping up my NK equity then acting flabbergasted when I'm still alive lategame. I don't really think any of this is outside of the scope of Una's mechplay.

have you not said yourself that una outing his result D2 as scum would be really weird?

I don't remember why I townread billy, I think his late D1 was good. He doesn't give a shit about this phase.

MWNN's reaction to being townread was,

nothing

when I'd seriously expect a sigh of relief from town!him who's been marched up to the gallows for such a long time. His meta is w/e, his greatest towntell is perplexed sass when confronted by nonsense which he has none of. Alongside offering a meta towncase I've asked him input on about 8000 subjects to try and get him to alignment tell. I have received no solving in response, but a jump to posturing the popular scumteam of the last 10 posts. He doesn't give a shit about this phase.

NM I don't care about

need to think about the rest of this.

[lilith2013]

billy, can you explain why you think mwnn is scum? why am I in your POE if you think mwnn is scum, do you think we could be partners?

[lilith2013]

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

masterpiece

it was but what are you like.. claiming

So is this some sort of cop claim? What does the ice cream mean? And gated to n2 and n3?

I'm a night 2, 3 neapolitan cop
because neopolitan ice cream

guess who's gonna wait for zombapoc to fullclaim
THIS GUY

there you go

good claim
VOTE: Nep

good soft/crumb, I should say

VOTE: zombie

explain pls iv

Why would a neopolitan and a role cop both be in town?

UNVOTE:

Someone smarter than me explain

- how was zombie’s claim a “good claim” when you

admitted

that nothing about that claim was required to be a town role?
- why did you vote zombie over nepenthes in the first place? did that reason disappear because he claimed? did you disagree with SS that it was worth giving nepenthes another day to clear herself? was your scumread on nepenthes that strong?
- why did you go immediately from voting zombie to voting elsewhere and questioning iv for voting zombie? again, what about that claim made you think he was town (or worth defending)?

other thoughts (not directed to duck): thought it was super weird that mwnn was like “this role should be scum since town wouldn’t have a rolecop and neapolitan, right?” while simultaneously unvoting the person he said couldn’t be town

[lilith2013]

"tw does suboptimal things as scum" is a bullshit reason to scumread me being uncertain with my reads and posting literally every thought that enters my head btw. i do suboptimal things as town as well. sometimes i do optimal things. under extreme duress. i don't think i've ever been this obviously fuelled by towny WIM in my entire life.

that’s not the reason I ever scumread you, it just makes it much more difficult to townread.

[lilith2013]

i'm happy for you to shade my alignment but could we not pretend i'm just shit? like dismissing my reads as though they're saying nothing isn't just anti-town, it's kinda personally irritating :/

i'm trying pushes this phase.
i'm not confident at all.
i'm just... seeing how i feel and talking through it.

this post is a return to reality: i consider you as scum, and i don't think the shoe fits. ditto for iv. probably ditto for una but i also wouldn't be surprised if he was scum (we just probably lose).

i think scum probably really struggle to care about this phase

and i'm seeing a core of players who are really struggling to care about this phase.

this is the part I think was missing from th epost. you said a lot about whether people care or not but didn't actually say anything about what that meant for alignments.

[lilith2013]

I don't particularly want to fight with you, but I feel like you're approaching this with the mindset of fighting.

[lilith2013]

ok.

[lilith2013]

I'm like, kind of upset that you said I called your reads shit because that's not at all what I was trying to say about that post.

[lilith2013]

i have words to say but idk what they are. i'm ready for this day phase to end. i want this game to be over.

[lilith2013]

what in the actual fuck?

[lilith2013]

i voted with SS because he was and has basically always been locktown with me. i don't need to ask. this is actual literal bullshit.

[lilith2013]

both of you vote me for doing something fucking 3 day phases ago that was completely consistent with my locktown read on SS that i've had literally all game, over iv who wasn't townreading ss yet followed him onto zombie, and over mwnn who said zombie shouldn't be town yet left the zombie wagon. you have no actual reason to scumread me. i wouldn't be surprised if one or both of you are scum, but if you're town then you actually deserve to lose for that being the sole reason you vote me. and fuck me for attempting to effort this game. i'm actually on the verge of tears.

[lilith2013]

fuck this. VOTE: duck.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: the worst

[lilith2013]

congrats duck, if your goal was tilting me off the face of the earth and making me want to put 0 effort into this game then you succeeded. almost replaced out but then I thought I should stay to spite you if you’re actually scum.

VOTE: mwnn

just end the day so I can die or lose.

[lilith2013]

so you're going to pretend you didn't just try to push me?

[lilith2013]

no please fucking let me die

[lilith2013]

why does duck keep saying billy is town? why does he not care that billy made that push on me?

[lilith2013]

omfg i do not want to be here ashdgwrueijkldsfgasfd

[lilith2013]

am I just being crazy paranoid or do duck and una kind of seem like they’re bussing................

[lilith2013]

that can’t be right? We’re in LYLO so surely they just go for a townie if they’re both scum. definitely my paranoia talking. I was just, like, thinking about how they both had an explicable townread on billy that seems like it could have been tmi

[lilith2013]

anyway I’ll think about stuff and make posts after work

[lilith2013]

that explanation also works almost exactly the same if you flip duck and una...?

[lilith2013]

Scum!duck doesn't kill N_M tonight when una's been...weird about him all game. We're in M-ELO and he doesn't have to worry about another explanation because he's claimed VT.

[lilith2013]

my brain isn't working rn. i need to postpone this until later

[lilith2013]

sorry, this is not a priority for me atm. work is really stressful and my brain is non-functional and i just want to sleep after forcing it to function for a whole workday.

[lilith2013]

I do solemnly swear I'll read things and ~effort~ but at this rate it likely won't be until the weekend when I don't want to rip out my eyeballs

[lilith2013]

I don't even think that was that mean

[lilith2013]

what's preventing rolestopper from being a scum role?

[lilith2013]

straight up i don't think this setup needs a roleblocker if una is a rolestopper + they have an investigative + whatever the fuck else they have

[lilith2013]

idk if you're being deliberately obtuse about this but, like, you know that rolestopper also makes someone ascetic, right??? as in, preventing them from being cleared and/or rolecopped? duck has already mentioned that the pace of clears is really weird given the flips we've had (ungated tracker, ungated rolecop, n1+n4 cop, informed townie). you know what does make sense? a rolestopper that can prevent the number of clears from being gamebreaking in how fast they are..........

[lilith2013]

also like, it makes sense for scum!rolestopper to target an undefined PR to prevent the town investigatives from clearing the PR claim.

[lilith2013]

Sorry I’m not actually advocating that una is scum atm, I’m just more baffled that billy hasn’t considered at all that una could be scum

[lilith2013]

what about your N1 result is significant at all? why is it town indicative rather than scum indicative?

[lilith2013]

billy, Lilith, who is the team. One of three is almost certainly scum sooo

what does this mean

[lilith2013]

you're probably a rolestopper. ok. how is that significant? how is that town indicative?

[lilith2013]

also pretty sure I called you out for scummy dayplay earlier.

[lilith2013]

honestly if it weren't for SS towncasing una I'd probably be scumreading him here based on interactions with duck yesterday.

[lilith2013]

duck voted mwnn right before he self-voted???

literally no one said that scum didn't have a roleblocker. I'm pretty sure at least one person other than me said that if you were telling the truth, scum had to have a roleblocker and another PR to match town power.

[lilith2013]

oh i see, that was sarcasm.

[lilith2013]

I actually haven’t

[lilith2013]

are yall gonna be mad if i just vote una without waiting for the weekend to effort

[lilith2013]

my major sticking point here is the interactions on D3 (D2? idr what day it is anymore) that I mentioned in my self-quote, that of all the posts una has made, what I remember most is this: una approached duck with a mindset of “duck is scum and here’s how that makes sense in the context of the game” and like trying to cram in a bunch of reasons that could really have been applied to anyone and weren’t specific to duck whatsoever; instead of approaching the game holistically, like “here’s what happened, how do I fit the pieces together to see who is scummiest”

[lilith2013]

obv I don’t think I need to scumcase una to duck, so billy/iv let’s talk about it

[lilith2013]

Oh and I think I came to this conclusion a while ago, but I really wanted to do this phase justice so I’ve kind of been holding back. I think duck’s last page of posting has been really solid though and shows una in the same light I’ve been thinking about him (that is, making up the read and then trying to force the reasons to fit the read rather than coming to the read organically)

[lilith2013]

man if una is really scum, maybe I should just listen to my dissonance brain more often. I felt this way about raven in micro 960 and I thought it was a language thing here but maybe it’s actually a scumdar. that would be great

[lilith2013]

Oh and I think I came to this conclusion a while ago, but I really wanted to do this phase justice so I’ve kind of been holding back. I think duck’s last page of posting has been really solid though and shows una in the same light I’ve been thinking about him (that is, making up the read and then trying to force the reasons to fit the read rather than coming to the read organically)

“a while” = about 12 hours ago ftr but if it weren’t for my wanting to trust ss on una I think I’d have voted him yesterday

[lilith2013]

I agree with duck though, ss was really casing that una was a rolestopper, which like, I think he is. I just don’t really think that’s town-indicative. Two ungated investigatives plus a gated n1 investigative plus an informed townie

plus a protective

??????? I think it’s way more likely that una is a scum!rolestopper and the rolestopper is meant to protect against the investigatives tbh

[lilith2013]

fuck I wanna vote una RIGHT NOW but I should probably wait for billy and iv to show up

[lilith2013]

also like, it makes sense for scum!rolestopper to target an undefined PR to prevent the town investigatives from clearing the PR claim.

[lilith2013]

please quote where you made these arguments

[lilith2013]

if you had only kept reading before you went off...

[lilith2013]

una, what are your actual REASONS for duck being scum???????

iirc you have yet to show anything that duck has actually

done

and explained why that’s scummy. your case involves only “this is what scum!duck did during the night” which sorry if I don’t take your word for it

[lilith2013]

ok so you don’t have any actual reasons for arguing scum!duck

[lilith2013]

fuck I just realized that if this is scum!una, I’m almost certainly in LYLO with iv and billy. fuck me I just wanted to die N1 like I usually do

[lilith2013]

@billy all I could find in your ISO was you arguing that roleblock arguing before rolestop made the rolestop useless. I think that argument is based on an entirely incorrect assumption. the game is using NAR so roleblock will resolve before rolestop if made on the rolestopper, and after the rolestop if made on the rolestoppee. also, utility /= AI. That’s why I basically ignored what you said.

[lilith2013]

probably could have explained that at the time but /shrug

[lilith2013]

@billy all I could find in your ISO was you arguing that roleblock resolving before rolestop made the rolestop useless. I think that argument is based on an entirely incorrect assumption. the game is using NAR so roleblock will resolve before rolestop if made on the rolestopper, and after the rolestop if made on the rolestoppee. also, utility /= AI. That’s why I basically ignored what you said.

ebwop

[lilith2013]

okay I’m seriously looking for one (1) actual reason that you started scumreading duck that isn’t based on “here’s what scum!duck did during the night that basically anyone else could also have done”

[lilith2013]

una did you just lift that line about duck’s reads on iv from my iso

[lilith2013]

iv please hurry up and post

[lilith2013]

D1!duck: "iv is so town"
D2!duck, when other people are like "what's towny about iv": "oh I don't remember" *votes froppy, who voted iv*
D3!duck, when someone else pointed out that iv could be scum: "oh yeah iv's associatives with zombie are hot garbage"
D4!duck, when other people are now wanting to eliminate iv: "but no one is resisting so he can't be scum!" (except duck is in fact resisting by saying that)


duck/iv team??????????????????????????????????????????????

this is what I’m referring to

[lilith2013]

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.
What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.

Literally the same as you

Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too),

So have I

he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo,

probably more town-indicative than scum-indicative

he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo,

also probably slightly more town to me

he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.

and that’s not what you’ve been doing when you posit a duck/iv team?

Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.

imo the major difference is how you tried to shove a scumread on him and forced all the night kills to fit the read

what is this entire argument even

I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

I don’t care about either of those things and I don’t feel like these weigh in at all

[lilith2013]

sorry una that’s, like, verifiably false. you returned from vla before this vc:

Why are we Capitalizing Random Words

vote count

day 2, vc 3

plusJOYED

(4, E-2) - Something_Smart, lilith2013, innocentvillager, TheFourEyedDude

Nepenthes

(1) - Not_Mafia

the worst

(1) - plusJOYED

Froppy

(1) - the worst

innocentvillager

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Billy Pilgrim

(0)

UnaBombaH

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not voting

(4) - Froppy, Nepenthes, Billy Pilgrim, UnaBombaH

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-20 08:24:00).

Then proceeded to say plus should be the elimination but not vote them:

Like I said I'm still confused as to why VT zombie would do something like that. But why else would he do something like that at the start of day 2 without any pressure on him? He probably expected to die n2 to save a real town PR kill

I mean, I

guess

this could be the thing?
And I have this stupid tendency to think that scum never make mistakes like these, so I'm hesitantly leaning at least a little towards beliving you, but..
At the same time. I sort of doesn't matter what your slot/you have claimed or unclaimed.
S_S still seems so adamant about your slot, that I'm going to say you should be todays lynch anyway.

Then proceeded to shade SS who you say you knew had a guilty

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.
I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

idk how the worst plays maf so I'd be inclined to take SS's word for it but it still feels pockety to me

Well, if you're town, then yeah my point is it's pocketing/whiteknighting.

I outright dislike this.
Doesn't come across as confident as I had hoped S_S would be.

[lilith2013]

and the first one?

[lilith2013]

I don’t really care why SS said that, although I’d believe he was trying to make it seem like it wasn’t a guilty so he wouldn’t be a target. There’s zero evidence that that made you reconsider anything though

[lilith2013]

@una can you explain why you voted mwnn yesterday?

the response “it takes 4 to wagon” doesn’t count as a reason for voting

[lilith2013]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

no this is exactly what I mean. That post doesn’t seem to be about billy at all

[lilith2013]

my major sticking point here is the interactions on D3 (D2? idr what day it is anymore) that I mentioned in my self-quote, that of all the posts una has made, what I remember most is this: una approached duck with a mindset of “duck is scum and here’s how that makes sense in the context of the game” and like trying to cram in a bunch of reasons that could really have been applied to anyone and weren’t specific to duck whatsoever; instead of approaching the game holistically, like “here’s what happened, how do I fit the pieces together to see who is scummiest”

I have yet to receive a response to this btw, unless “you’re just confbiased” is a response

[lilith2013]

oh wait I remember, you said “gut”

ok

[lilith2013]

Well, I did not say that "I disagree".
I did not say that "S_S is scum for that" either.
You are literally nitpicking my posts as a duo now, and you are focusing on something that is not there - a scum-agenda..

what does “but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go” mean besides “SS might be scum”?

[lilith2013]

iv mentioned it like first thing in this phase

[lilith2013]

I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

[lilith2013]

ss was the one who made that comment and I parroted it during D3/4

[lilith2013]

why not just say that then?

[lilith2013]

that's a very wild way of saying "I disagree but I like your thought process",

[lilith2013]

sorry but I’m still waiting for iv given that I think we’re heading into f3 after this

[lilith2013]

srsly do you just ignore content about me or something

[lilith2013]

billy can you explain what you agree with in duck’s scumcase of una?

[lilith2013]

or alternatively, what’s the strongest part of it for you that makes you feel like una is scum

[lilith2013]

i haven't read through all of worstys walls but yeah down to elim una, not much more to be said, im more worried about f3 at this point

this is kind of garbage reaction sorry

[lilith2013]

actually doesn’t it imply that he knows the game isn’t over with una’s death, if he’s more worried about f3 than, you know, the LYLO that we’re currently in????

[lilith2013]

and surely you'd want to read everything he wrote about una and decide for yourself which of them is scum?

[lilith2013]

what made you decide he's town then? it didn't seem like you had decided that before his case on una.

[lilith2013]

I will pretend that part doesn’t exist

[lilith2013]

I had mostly decided already and the tone/AtE/casing/effort pushed it over the top. Una is obviously today’s elim

do you think una is scum though? and why?

[lilith2013]

joke about whether it will actually be four and counting together.

I noticed this earlier and appreciate you

[lilith2013]

oh uh

was I supposed to prepare thoughts

[lilith2013]

again my read on billy since D1 has just been a big fat question mark in my brain. these posts seemed like extra-posturing to me though, like maybe he really felt like he had to pile on una here.

the game isn't over
I'm finally right
hoooooly fuck

Well, you are sort of clearly scum so the game shouldn't be over yet anyway. And I also see that you have racked some more posts up so maybe I should take some time to post as well, although I feel like it should be better for town to have the other three players sort it out.
If I'm being "fair" and take myself out of the equation for a second - one of us is going to be talking shit anyway, and therefore already might be "WIFOMing stuff" in preparation for tomorrow.
So if Billy/lilith/IV are able to talk things through amongst themselves, I feel like we have a better shot at getting not only todays lynch in order, but also the last one we need for tomorrow.

Ok this is scummy. You don't wanna participate in the solve?

The only other option might be just lynching MWNN - I really dislike their "willingness to be lynched" here.
That would also reveal the "IC" within N_M if that's actually a thing, meaning that I'd have a simple target for my last shot and you'd probably find ME dead tomorrow..but at least you'd have an IC!
...who doesn't...do anything... -_-

Ducky amd IV, is this what you're referring to with respect to his hammer while still scumreading you? Because I at least saw this benefit from flipping MWNN.

If you think I'm scum over some pseudo lurker whose entire game has been 1) fakeclaiming rolestopper well, 2) deathtunnelling some shitty solve without stopping to reevaluate or attempting to stop any miselims (WHICH HE WOULD THINK ARE MISELIMS IF HE BELIEVED HIS SOLVE) you need to go back to the newbie queue or town of salem

Now this is just rude and blatant Ate..

Oh shit, this feels like him pocketing me.

[lilith2013]

I don't actually have a reaction to 5424. like i'm just like, meh

[lilith2013]

if we're talking lolbus equity, iv is it for sure. I'm rereading this day phase to see if there's a possibility that billy/una team thought they could turn it around and that being a potential explanation for no lolbus!billy

[lilith2013]

I’ll think about what you said more later

I do worry that you/una were kind of setting up for this going against town!worsty?

as far as teams there aren’t very many options

Una/billy
Una/Lilith
Worsty/una - v unlikely
Worsty/billy
Worsty/Lilith

if worsty is town I kind of just think you/una is the team, he’s very confident on Lilith town even in this situation that I would trust, so I don’t think una/Lilith is likely

if una is town then I’m not sure who between you and Lilith is the partner assuming it’s not una (una would probably get nightkilled). As I’ve said I’m torn because I’ve been townreading both of you fairly solidly, but it’s pretty clear one of you is scum (honestly, really good play). I’m not sure if scum!you goes for the bus scum!worsty tactic but it’s possible to set yourself up against me in f3? Idk, im not feeling great about any of this. Specifically I think you’re scum by PoE most likely but I like... townread you this game

Can you point out where/why/how you were townreading billy? I see no evidence of a billy townread during D3/4

[lilith2013]

una/worsty Probably not
worsty/Lilith
Lilith/una
Lilith/BP unlikely (?)
Bp/una
Bp/worsty

assumes four is town

I’ll fill in the blanks when I have time, think if four is town the team is one of these 4

Okay here’s my amazing readslist for this amazing gamestate

{innocentvillager}
{Not Mafia}
{Lilith, worsty, una, bp, four}

and here are your only mentions of billy during D4, in which you're explicitly not townreading him

[lilith2013]

????????????????????????

[lilith2013]

which post are you saying is supposed to be framing you, duck's 5460 or una's original 5007?

[lilith2013]

how does it "frame you when you flip scum"

how can anything frame you after you've flipped scum

i don't even know what 5467 means. I didn't write that post???

[lilith2013]

also was that a scumslip

[lilith2013]

what's the difference between writing that before and after duck's flip?

[lilith2013]

D1 elim - norwegianboyee, vt
N1 actions - saudade/pooky killed, rolecop. nepenthes (town tracker) tracked una to herself. una claims to have rolestopped nepenthes that night. SS (n1+n4 cop) got guilty on zombie/plus
D2 elim - zombie/plus, mafia n2+n3 neapolitan
N2 actions - nepenthes killed, town tracker. una claims to have rolestopped SS.
D3 elim - sirius/waterdispensor/froppy/shelly, vt
N3 actions - SS killed, n1+n4 cop. una claims to have holstered.
D4 elim - foureyeddude/manwithnoname, informed townie that lavarmanos/notmafia is town.
N4 actions - lavarmanos/notmafia killed, vt. una claims to have rolestopped lavarmanos/notmafia and if he is telling the truth, was either roleblocked or mafia used a strongman.
D5 - we here now.

una claim - 3-shot indecisive rolestopper
everyone else claimed vt.

[lilith2013]

other highlights:

Major D1 wagons were nepenthes, billy, and norwegian. nepenthes was put at L-1 or close to it and claimed PR. billy was put at L-1 or something close to it and supposedly acted like a vt by saying that he should be the elimination because it would be useful -> wagon deflated. norwegian ended up as a kind of compromise.
Major D2 events: una came out of the gate gunning for nepenthes, who originally said she got no result. since una claimed rolestopper, this is supposedly impossible. mod locked thread and revised night results to send a new result to nepenthes where she tracked una to herself. in the meantime, SS came out of the gate calling for zombie/plus to be eliminated.
Major D3 events: there was basically only the wagon on sirius/water/froppy/shelly although foureyed/manwithnoname offered himself up to confirm his informed townie status and therefore confirm lavar/notmafia as town. massclaim happened, everyone other than una claimed vt.
Major D4 events: also basically only really a wagon on foureyed/manwithnoname, though i don’t know if anyone was actually scumreading him. It did confirm lavar/notmafia as town though.
Major D5 events: duck came out of the gate FoSing and then voting una. una crossvoted. Game did not end so at least one of the two is scum. we are now deciding, although billy, iv, and i all seem to want to eliminate una.

[lilith2013]

Are you just taking duck’s word for it that I’m town?

[lilith2013]

Can you describe the thoughts you had in reaction to 1) my reaction to you pushing me D4, and 2) duck’s post about why I’m town?

[lilith2013]

- I'm not talking about my emotional reaction. I mean what were the thoughts you had when you read my response?
- why do you trust duck's read on me?

[lilith2013]

I feel like I have made effort to independently evaluate. continually saying “oh duck is pocketing lilith and she gobbles it up like cupcakes” is not anywhere close to what happened. I feel like I have not gotten explanations that addressed my questions/concerns.

you're probably a rolestopper. ok. how is that significant? how is that town indicative?

my major sticking point here is the interactions on D3 (D2? idr what day it is anymore) that I mentioned in my self-quote, that of all the posts una has made, what I remember most is this: una approached duck with a mindset of “duck is scum and here’s how that makes sense in the context of the game” and like trying to cram in a bunch of reasons that could really have been applied to anyone and weren’t specific to duck whatsoever; instead of approaching the game holistically, like “here’s what happened, how do I fit the pieces together to see who is scummiest”

I agree with duck though, ss was really casing that una was a rolestopper, which like, I think he is. I just don’t really think that’s town-indicative. Two ungated investigatives plus a gated n1 investigative plus an informed townie

plus a protective

??????? I think it’s way more likely that una is a scum!rolestopper and the rolestopper is meant to protect against the investigatives tbh

una, what are your actual REASONS for duck being scum???????

iirc you have yet to show anything that duck has actually

done

and explained why that’s scummy. your case involves only “this is what scum!duck did during the night” which sorry if I don’t take your word for it

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.
What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.

Literally the same as you

Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too),

So have I

he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo,

probably more town-indicative than scum-indicative

he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo,

also probably slightly more town to me

he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.

and that’s not what you’ve been doing when you posit a duck/iv team?

Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.

imo the major difference is how you tried to shove a scumread on him and forced all the night kills to fit the read

what is this entire argument even

I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

I don’t care about either of those things and I don’t feel like these weigh in at all

I’d say your play on D5 has been largely “no YOU’re scum” “no YOUR case is stupid.” I don’t see any merit in that kind of argument.

[lilith2013]

You decided to fixate on one of my posts where I questioned your reaction to SS and you’ve basically ignored anything else I’ve said in favor of ranting about how unfair it is that I read and agreed with a case.

[lilith2013]

Can you point to one time in this game where you pushed duck, questioned him on his actions and/or reads, or tried to garner votes on him to build a wagon?

Rereading your ISO doesn't show me anything except "duck should be more tryhard so I can read him," "duck should take a stance on me so I can read him," you don't seem to be proactive whatsoever about sorting, pushing, engaging a scumread that you've supposedly had since D1. Can you explain why that is?

[lilith2013]

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.

doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town

I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

still doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town. what does this sentence say? you're subtly supporting billy pushing SS without outright saying you think SS is scummy. you're implying that SS is likely to be scum.

[lilith2013]

Can you point to one time in this game where you pushed duck, questioned him on his actions and/or reads, or tried to garner votes on him to build a wagon?

I immediately remembered an instance:

Wait, Froppy is the waterD/Sirius -slot?
Who's the leading advocate for that lynch this day and time?

Ducky came in voting it.

OK.
VOTE: the worst - time to solve this shit today instead of me resorting to paranoia every now and then.

bro you're meant to be voting scum or pretending to vote scum stopppp

This was me asking who was advocating to lynching that slot at that time (think it was D3).
My "Miss Marple"-logic suggests that in games that have a "policy-lynchable" slot like Sirius/Froppy/WaterD/whoever, it's often scum who keep coming back to the honey pot, but don't actually want the lynch to necessarily ever go all the way through.
I really, really wanted it D1, but people insisted on sidetracking it and we know the results of it.
The whole trajectory of this game was formed by those claims from MWNN and Nep as early as D1.

And after losing a buddy D2, I felt like scum would likely start D3 with an easy push on the Sirius-slot, before actually moving somewhere else.

ok - how is this vote related to your gut scumread on duck?

[lilith2013]

oh yeah my memory actually served me well there.

you've just now said that your reasoning for voting duck at that time was that he was on the "easy" wagon, but then you literally never mentioned that wagon to him again to ask why he was on it. you said you voted him in order to solve him, but I didn't see any evidence of you trying to do that.

[lilith2013]

okay. here are your posts related to duck following that vote:

hmm I have an interesting take on una but maybe it's better to talk about it after our dialogue idk

I actually think you should out this "take".
It's the kind of stuff I want to see from you.
I'm not asking you to "tryhard" if you don't feel like doing it - I'm in no position to demand that from anyone.
But I feel like my biggest obstacle with you here is the lack of commitment to an unpopular/new read. Something that might be hotly contested, or might involve some personal insight.

I feel like I saw glimpses of town!duck during my catchup, but at the same time I feel like you are actively forcing yourself to stay on surface-level.
This reads to me like you are trying to stay alive and not be a nightkill, which obviously could mean a multitude of things.
I'm trying to decide whether you just want to keep playing, or if you are actually scum this time around.

secretly i kinda think una's n2 is kinda scum indicative but i think i'll just be able to sort him via dayplay

And what the hell is this about?
If you want to scumread me, do it based on me not committing to the Nep-wagon D1 - not based on my N2 actions.

In all perfect honesty - you didn't think S_S was a very reasonable and a likely target for scum to kill?

If I were to think at least one of you/S_S was town, I might have something like 2630 ways to explain myself discreetly enough to either of you.
But now that I finally understood why Nep absolutely HAD TO die from scum!PoV, I feel like the scumteam could be anywhere, and have "anything".

hmm I have an interesting take on una but maybe it's better to talk about it after our dialogue idk

I actually think you should out this "take".
It's the kind of stuff I want to see from you.
I'm not asking you to "tryhard" if you don't feel like doing it - I'm in no position to demand that from anyone.
But I feel like my biggest obstacle with you here is the lack of commitment to an unpopular/new read. Something that might be hotly contested, or might involve some personal insight.

I feel like I saw glimpses of town!duck during my catchup, but at the same time I feel like you are actively forcing yourself to stay on surface-level.
This reads to me like you are trying to stay alive and not be a nightkill, which obviously could mean a multitude of things.
I'm trying to decide whether you just want to keep playing, or if you are actually scum this time around.

Take a stance on me Ducky, take a dance with me Ducky.
Be my aussie Steve Rogers, I'll be your finnish Bucky.

I think the fact you apparently crumbed that you weren't going to protect Nep is like... literally mind-bogglingly negligent

Literally didn't do this.
Read what I've just said and you might understand what I mean.
We need to be speaking the same language here.

Then you are probably just scum and my vote is in the right place.

If BuDucky is indeed scum, then FourEyes+N_M are both town.
I don't think scum!Ducky would need to point any sus. in that direction if FourEyes was their teammate.

he dropped a nonsensical theory on someone who is increasingly obvtown (hi it's me) and then left

There isn't much truth at all within this span of words.
At least not from a neutral standpoint and PoV.
I went nowhere, and you becoming "increasingly obv.town" is just something you say to try and suggest it around.

I feel like your position should be pushed and questioned now because otherwise you'll just slide to the endgame and we'll be none the wiser.

I honestly missed everything and anything tangible you might've said there.
If Ducky is scum, it's mandatory we massclaim today.
But I do think Froppy has to be the lynch today no matter what, simply because that's a slot which is not going anywhere, and not doing anything anyway.
And the way that this might come to a halt just like it did D1, makes me think there's something to it as well.

BuDucky just can't see beyond my scumread on him.
He has Lilith so deep in a pocket, that he feels comfortable enough to just vaguely skirt around my slot.
If Ducky really wanted, he'd understand my frustration as well.
That vote on me is merely symbolic - he knows I'll be mislynchable from this point onwards.
And yea, my own crumbs likely lead to this, so maybe it's going to be me getting my just desserts.

I'm calling it now - Froppy is town, I'll be mislynched tomorrow because of consequences, and the remaining scumteam is BuDucky-IV.

these feel passive. It doesn't come across to me that you're actually worried about duck being scum or that you are attempting to solve him. You go straight from "engage with me" to "let's take scum!duck as a given" without showing any development on how you became so certain.

[lilith2013]

oh yeah my memory actually served me well there.

you've just now said that your reasoning for voting duck at that time was that he was on the "easy" wagon, but then you literally never mentioned that wagon to him again to ask why he was on it. you said you voted him in order to solve him, but I didn't see any evidence of you trying to do that.

Well did you just look at his reaction to my vote?
"no, I'm not scum, stop"
Instead of engaging me in a discussion about it.

so? he has never said that he attempted to solve you there. however, you are arguing that you attempted to solve him there.

[lilith2013]

what does his reaction have anything to do with whether or not you pushed him?

[lilith2013]

this is what I feel like your entire D5 has been like. I ask you to show yourself engaging with your scumread on duck, and your response is to be like "but duck wasn't engaging there!" okay, and???? that wasn't the question I asked.

[lilith2013]

I literally read just your ISO. stop trying to discredit me by calling me a parrot.

[lilith2013]

a vanity wagon that went nowhere, that you dropped because.. because I said I townread him? even though you were so sure he was scum? and you were blatantly saying that he had pocketed me?

[lilith2013]

wow didn't believe I was going to get so steamed about this game again but here I am fuming because all una can say is that I'm stupid and can't think for myself

[lilith2013]

Oh I’m not even voting froppy right now lmao

Intent to hammer yourself? Without a claim? Without a massclaim?

summary of my case against froppy: this is a towntelling list and I unambiguously do not townread froppy at all. Sirius was dead ass null but I was happy to let him live a phase or two. Waterd's self towncase was dull and easy to fake as scum, but I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. Froppy's iso is dull but I was happy to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Does she do anything towny or any semblance of solving?
No

Does she make posts with content which are very easy to make as scum but with better utility as manipulative arguments than actual solving arguments?
Yea!

So if it lounges like scum and frops like scum I have no idea what the hell its alignment is but I'm murdering it before endgame

Froppy is scum with Una but I do in a vacuum think una is playing this phase in worse faith. I kinda hinted at this earlier but w/e they can be scum together

and he posted this a day later. what's your point?

[lilith2013]

a page later*

[lilith2013]

I honestly missed everything and anything tangible you might've said there.
If Ducky is scum, it's mandatory we massclaim today.
But I do think Froppy has to be the lynch today no matter what, simply because that's a slot which is not going anywhere, and not doing anything anyway.
And the way that this might come to a halt just like it did D1, makes me think there's something to it as well.

oh and let's not forget your reaction to his "fencesitting" - immediately retracting your push.

[lilith2013]

you're acting like me changing my mind and townreading duck magically prevents you from being able to push him on your own or engage with him or solve him. also I just reread those pages and I didn't say he was town at any point between your vote on him and you calling him scum, so I'm not even sure what I did that "killed" your push.

[lilith2013]

I feel like your position should be pushed and questioned now because otherwise you'll just slide to the endgame and we'll be none the wiser.

show me where you pushed and questioned that position, which is literally what I've been asking

[lilith2013]

look, I can play "make random lines of text hugely emphasized" too

[lilith2013]

MY ACTUAL QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHERE DID YOU PUSH AND QUESTION HIM LIKE YOU SAY DUCK NEEDED TO BE PUSHED AND QUESTIONED?

I'm NOT ASKING for you to show me where he's scummy. I'm NOT ASKING for anything related to duck except for the fact that the read I am questioning is the one you say you've had on him. As far as I can tell, you made your way into that day phase insisting that duck was scum or needed to be pushed and then proceeded to not actually question him, showing no urgency in solving or wagoning him whatsoever.

[lilith2013]

your response to me has included the following:
"But duck didn't engage with me!"
"But duck was being scummy there!"
"YOU were the one who killed my push!" (no, I wasn't)
"No one else was going to vote him!" (why does it matter what other people are doing?)

[lilith2013]

WHERE DID YOU QUESTION DUCK?

[lilith2013]

stop fucking ignoring the actual QUESTIONS i’m asking you.

a vanity wagon that went nowhere, that you dropped because.. because I said I townread him? even though you were so sure he was scum? and you were blatantly saying that he had pocketed me?

you're acting like me changing my mind and townreading duck magically prevents you from being able to push him on your own or engage with him or solve him. also I just reread those pages and I didn't say he was town at any point between your vote on him and you calling him scum, so I'm not even sure what I did that "killed" your push.

I feel like your position should be pushed and questioned now because otherwise you'll just slide to the endgame and we'll be none the wiser.

show me where you pushed and questioned that position, which is literally what I've been asking

MY ACTUAL QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHERE DID YOU PUSH AND QUESTION HIM LIKE YOU SAY DUCK NEEDED TO BE PUSHED AND QUESTIONED?

I'm NOT ASKING for you to show me where he's scummy. I'm NOT ASKING for anything related to duck except for the fact that the read I am questioning is the one you say you've had on him. As far as I can tell, you made your way into that day phase insisting that duck was scum or needed to be pushed and then proceeded to not actually question him, showing no urgency in solving or wagoning him whatsoever.

WHERE DID YOU QUESTION DUCK?

[lilith2013]

wow didn't believe I was going to get so steamed about this game again but here I am fuming because all una can say is that I'm stupid and can't think for myself

[lilith2013]

guess what una? the comment about pocketing me isn’t fucking relevant! it’s a reference to us being friends. Furthermore, I don’t care if duck has been trying to pocket me. YOU SAYING THAT HE’S POCKETED ME OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE. Have you READ the actually probably like 200 posts that I made scumreading and pushing him before I came anywhere close to townreading him on like D3???????? APPARENTLY FUCKING NOT

[lilith2013]

once again, I’m literally NOT ASKING FOR A SCUMCASE. I want you to show me that you in good faith engaged with your scumread on duck by questioning him to develop that read. I want you to show that when you say you had a scumread on duck, it wasn’t just for show. Once again, your response focuses on how DUCK is scummy and not the ACTUAL QUESTION I’M ASKING!!!!!!!!

[lilith2013]

You’ve avoided giving me a direct answer to anything I’ve said this day phase.

[lilith2013]

seriously Titus hurry your ass up because I really want to vote

[lilith2013]

that you just don't CARE..????

I DON’T CARE BECAUSE IT’S NOT FUCKING RELEVANT TO THE QUESTION I’M ASKING

[lilith2013]

which you STILL HAVEN’T ANSWERED

[lilith2013]

your answer to me once again consists of reasons why you didn’t push duck

[lilith2013]

I’m fucking fed up with una being incapable of actually answering my questions and shitting on me in order to discredit me, so I’m good.

[lilith2013]

what parts are you referring to by "the d2 thing"

[lilith2013]

I think I agree Billy is really, really unlikely to be the partner atp.

Why is that?

[lilith2013]

If Una is scum, I don't get his tactic today unless it's to set his partner up in lylo and/or deny associatives. His first instinct is to claim I am waiting around to hammer rather than try and sort me.

He’s saying that you’re scum. His solve has been your slot + duck for years.

[lilith2013]

Una's read on him feels slimy in an opportunistic way. not a partnery way.

Sorry, can you like quote a few posts for me?

[lilith2013]

What’s your solve?

[lilith2013]

right, and that would be...?

[lilith2013]

Titus, do you believe una is scum?

[lilith2013]

neither me nor duck make sense as an una partner.........................................

anyway if una were town he’d have been hammered already since the three of us have all checked in. I’m ready to vote if everyone is ready to end the day.

[lilith2013]

gg, well played everyone