Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Reformed Toxic Player]

if GC is scum, why is he not scum reading me?

Are u like even in this game or

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Because i literally have been pushing you this whole time and have my vote on you

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you know im scumreading u... right?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oops i got distracted by Things

also @green am i null to you?

i've been staring at this rtp v green for far too long. i'll reread it once i have more than 3 functioning brain cells bc right now this just feels like a bunch of annoyance and talking past each other.

@rtp can you explain to me what you meant by widening poe? bc i legit don't think i get it

yeah i'm feeling dead ok bye

Theres just that energy of just hedginess and not pushing to solve slots, just in keeping options open

[Reformed Toxic Player]

lol town datisi can get v rude... i have seen it and had to defuse jt

[Reformed Toxic Player]

UNVOTE:
Mmmmm

UNVOTE:

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.

you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.

Well you are getting called scum this game so why doesn't Elements go on your wagon instead of VPB who was only getting pushed by me. And why doesn't Duchess go on Elements for the same reason

I get called scum every game no matter my alignment. its nothing new. I know the cases against me this game are easily debunked so im barely worried and its obvious to me when people are bad faith pushing me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also I think I'm changing my mind on elements and that they aren't a good d1 elimination anymore.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP - help me here. Am I falling into the same toxic bullshit that I got into with Taylor? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but I have a hard time when people are clearly selectively picking posts.

i dont know but everyone needs to take a step back right now bc this isn't helpful.

can you post an updated reads list for me? preferably with some reasoning.

RLlotus, you too since i havent seen much in terms of reads from you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also I think I'm changing my mind on elements and that they aren't a good d1 elimination anymore.

This is like due to recent elements interactions -> something I think I am seeing but don't have the votes to help get it through it feels because it feels people are too scared to go that way.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi andres - i eagerly await your input.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

Have you finished catching up?

Not completely. But VPB sounds like Town to me, and your push there seems bad (around 869). If you flip Scum I would flip RTP too actually. You guys seemed overly aligned there for a bit. If VPB is onto something, he’s being sidelined in a rather aggressive way.

excuse me?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP is pushing {GC, Elements}, and you RLotus are pushing {VPB, ItalianoVD} while leaving Elements at null and attacking some of the “lurker” slots. Somethings not right. I would gamble Datisi is siding somewhat incorrectly? But is maybe too transparent with their logic and reads for Scum. I also thought Battle Mage was Town and don’t understand the discredit there from RTP.

why is BM town to you?

and ive been doing a lot of reeval over the past 5 or so pages - what you are seeing on your catchup is not accurate to current me.

and please don't try to have a repeat of last game where i literally help get scum d1 and u pivot straight to me for shit reasons.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

This game man. I honestly feel I’m flip flopping a bit hard since I had RTP as my top TR but I feel like Koba would maintain their SR of my slot instead of beginning to reverse it just because I expressed positive feelings there. Where’s the stubborn self-confident Koba I know?

im trying to remove the stubbornness from my play since its been holding me back. its the easiest thing for me to tap into when im scum though - you would know.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

actually yeah that makes no sense lol i would be more stubborn as scum

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you saw me flip flop in our last game a lot - i was even then trying to change my stubbornness then.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i was hesitant on RL bc of the change in style from last game but as I understand it it looks like their agenda there was to deepwolf and didnt care about bussing partners for towncred then - this could very well be a different RL here?

what do you think of GC @andres.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ah fuck it.
ill sheep
VOTE: RL

[Reformed Toxic Player]

:

yeah - it feels as though GC might be whiteknighting elements and setting up elements into me and thats why i backed off - removing elements from the equation does help remove BM from the equation as I thought they had some partnery vibes there too. so im basically back at 1 solid scumread.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i was hesitant on RL bc of the change in style from last game but as I understand it it looks like their agenda there was to deepwolf and didnt care about bussing partners for towncred then - this could very well be a different RL here?

what do you think of GC @andres.

That's a huge style change if you really believe that, I'll you now that I'm far out of my scum range

wanna link your 2-3 most recent scumgames that isnt baby animals?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im threadspewed by this point clear im pretty sure literally everyone has hard shaded me at this table lmfao.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.

Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.

this is sorta the place im also looking at if one of GC/Elements ends up being town.
ive basically PoEd it down to 5 names i think. (if i reread both VP/Datisi and they're town that makes it even better)

GC/Elements/BM/VP/Datisi <- this PoE may likely win the game here.

if im FoSing another masonry here imma be big mad tbh. and if i AM please do not assume im scum for it bc i will always fos masons who are bad at pretending uninformed bc yall always play like u got an agenda to save ur mason partners and it makes it harder for town to scumhunt.

Okay if I was going to be critical of any post, it’s this.

There’s absolutely no way you think that POE wins. I don’t believe it for a second. I’m not going to even pretend to have a decent handle on this game. But a 5 person POE at this stage, while already declaring a potential switch onto other players if one of your main SRs flips Town, seems just plain Scummy. And you’re sheeping what me now and abandoning this POE?

yeah i approached the game wrong. sue me. i wanna be ~thorough~ and new evidence has popped up.

after blatantly misreading me last game u should be more cautious u know?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you've never played on other sites? like this is your first time venturing into mafia?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VPB and Datisi are not both Scum here. I’m going to go out on a limb and claim that’s impossible based on how they’ve played. GC yeah maybe is Scum, but if they’re not, then what? You agree one of Italiano/Duchess deserves some scrutiny then right? But no mention of that? I’m not following.

duchess has been on my backburner and i keep reminding myself about that slot - they are definitely hard under the radar alongside harumi slot maxwell - i still think harumi leans town here though.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you've never played on other sites? like this is your first time venturing into mafia?

Yea

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GC

[Reformed Toxic Player]

if you're fooling me here wp lotus bc u tie me to you now and i get fucked too - but im willing to take that as confirmation the meta read on u is correct that i had earlier.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

after blatantly misreading me last game u should be more cautious u know?

Well my misread wasn’t that aggressive, and I am cautious around you. You’re good. But you *are* admitting that the view you expressed earlier this game was wrong? I’m just skeptical of the fluidity behind your views here that’s all. If it’s a deliberate attempt at moving away from your meta then I don’t know what you want me to do about that.

yeah my d1 reads suck ass lol i had a 0/3 read last game. (granted it was masons so 2/3 informed hahaha) - but i think i have a good grasp of setting up winning PoEs at the very least and ~possibly~ getting 1 good strong scumread d1.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i guess ive been trying to compensate for my wildly bad reads d1 by trying to do much more reeval now? like - ive noticed a pattern in my town games where i pin down either 1 or 2 scum, and 1 is just off my radar and im tunneling a town(assuming 3 scum), so id rather fix that into catching all scum into a nice PoE box.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.

honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.

honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.

My point is a bit different. I’m critiquing the construction of that POE you put out there. I don’t think there was much thought put into it, outside of grouping some players that are skeptical of your slot {BM, VPB, Datisi} [and c’mon they’re not all Scum that’s like impossible], and some easier slots to push given the game state in {Elements, GC}, though I suspect you couldn’t get a GC execution through (and maybe that’s the point).

i assumed both GC and elements wouldnt flip scum there

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i assumed they both wouldnt not flip scum *

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.

honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.

My point is a bit different. I’m critiquing the construction of that POE you put out there. I don’t think there was much thought put into it, outside of grouping some players that are skeptical of your slot {BM, VPB, Datisi} [and c’mon they’re not all Scum that’s like impossible], and some easier slots to push given the game state in {Elements, GC}, though I suspect you couldn’t get a GC execution through (and maybe that’s the point).

i assumed both GC and elements wouldnt flip scum there

Okay but the rest of your POE is literally the three players that were voting you at the time. There is no way in hell you’re going to convince me there’s nothing fishy about that. Particularly after you had already stated that players tend to SR you. I can’t remember exactly if you proceed to disagree with RLotus on VPB while drunk immediately before or after that POE (I think it’s after), but just very clearly there’s something off about how you’re approaching this game I feel.

I'm not following.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can you cite a scum game of mine where my reads were this chaotic btw

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i can even cite offsite games where i tended to stay in boxed in reads to avoid scrutiny on my slot by pushing multiple slots i know are town because i dont like to bus ever on d1.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Then the best town POV thing to do is to occams razor it as outside of scumrange(like this is very hard for me to fake as scum with so many variables) - and sort it on a later date.


and like if i feel stilted - theres another recent town game where i felt the same way because I felt like I needed to be careful to not have my words used against me to tank my towncred where I was facing against FL/Raya and I could tell they were being manipulative - (Names on the List).

I know I know, self meta and all, but the more i play on here the more apparent the difference in my play as either alignment is clearer and I can prove it. (this does mean next time i roll scum its a much higher effort play with an uncomfortable style but hey lol)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm not following.

I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves. There’s no chance in hell I would ever assume myself (unless I was some sort of genius and I’m not) that they’re all Scum or that they all deserve to be in the POE. The fact that you immediately went against one of those reads is confirmation enough that after you saw the votes, you realized just how unrealistic that position was.

the thing about a PoE with more players than there are scum - you ARE assuming some of them are town.

I was basically saying - look: there's probably scum on this wagon if my read is wrong on this initial 3.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i already stated i had voted u for the contradiction from our scum pt in 799 and what u said in this game

So if that was your reason for voting me what changed? Doing a reeval makes no sense since you had already been townleaning me and if the so called contradiction was the thing you voted me for that didn’t change, so it doesn’t make sense to townread me. I feel like you were just doing things to do things imo, especially that readslist.

yeah i did take a leap of faith when voting you to see what would happen. and? whats your point? townlean by no means means im going to stop examining your play and poke at suspicious stuff.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm not following.

I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves. There’s no chance in hell I would ever assume myself (unless I was some sort of genius and I’m not) that they’re all Scum or that they all deserve to be in the POE. The fact that you immediately went against one of those reads is confirmation enough that after you saw the votes, you realized just how unrealistic that position was.

On 786 RTP mentioned the stuff about his POE, and it looks like his scumread of BM started formulating on 787. The wagon on RTP didn't start until 799.

So, I don't really like this logic. In fact, it looks like the wagon on RTP could have built up in reaction to RTP's POE read.

lmao i legit forgot about this. my memory do be lacking

[Reformed Toxic Player]

my doubt that rl is town here evaporating by the second - even I forgot about that shit and for sure a scum player would have just ignored that since its buried so deep.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

andres do u still fos lotus

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves.

That is what you are saying here no?

So Koba throws suspicion towards those slots, they all vote for Koba, and Koba places them all in the POE they identify as the winning POE after, only to hard go back on their read of VPB, and you are defending the POE? Am I getting this right?

reading back was i supposed to magically take them out of the PoE that was already in my head at the time?

-because this is how you are suggesting it.

also i'd like you to give more substantial thoughts about GC please.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RL - I think I've figured something out. I'm wondering if you are on the same page as me or not. tryna send over a brainwave here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm just saying I don't think the POE had anything to do with the votes on them. Why he changed his read on VPB, I don't know.

Okay but you’re fighting an argument I’m not making. I said those slots were skeptical of Koba. Not that the POE came about because they were voting Koba.

i had quite clearly stated it was in reaction their suspicion growing when I started to fos certain slots -> slots at the time i was confident were scum. this is natural to think when you know scum would damage control ASAP if their partner suddenly starts getting PoE'd by a loud townie.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I think this is wasting valuable conversation space arguing about the semantics of this when there's clear reasoning already stated around those posts - can you respond to the lotus + GC question andres.

pedit: why are they still scum to you here?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I think lotus has demonstrated pretty well they are outside of scumrange for a new player - unless you think they are completely lying.

do you think they are playing similarly to last game?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can you respond to the lotus + GC question andres.

I already answered that once I’m caught up I’ll provide an opinion on GC when I have some time to ISO. I don’t see why I need to shift focus just yet.

lol

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im toying with an andres/vp/GC world in my head rn

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don’t think RLotus has demonstrated that at all to be totally honest. And what does being new have to do with anything? Some players can play Scum decently well. RLotus did a good job fooling people last game we played. They completely avoided being suspected aggressively and bussed effectively.

I didn't have nearly the aggression that game that I do this game, in fact my pushes were very soft, if you want to believe my self meta.

And my push on VPB makes no sense as scum. Just tunnel on a highly town read player, when I myself am quite town read. To tank my town cred even though it's unlikely for a VPB wagon to actually go through?

to add on to this ,watching from the gy when u were just playing around as scum u were just straight up trying to stay townread and not offend and went for easy soft reads

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i really wanna flip GC.

like very badly.

it cracks open the game state from my pov and im like very sure in a positive direction i.e. scum chain elims.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

andres at which point did you realize i was koba?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

vp/GC

VP + GC is something I considered because of the way GC was trying to cool me off of VP. If VP is town, I think it is highly likely that GC is town.

Andre I'm having a hard time pinning down a read on. His reasoning is really good and when I argue with him he usually says something that really makes sense. Maybe he can do this as scum. I do think he on the wrong side of town tho. Well I know he is wrong in voting me. Overall, not sure.

the andres part was included bc im very concerned with how much they're tunneled onto you and I and stuff that was ages ago and ignoring our explanations and just brushing it off - it was feeling during our conversation you and i were boxing andres in vibe wise.

andres is a strong player in general from what I have seen. viewtopic.php?t=85877&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go < im looking through this rn to see if the vibes feel right there.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

italiano ily but im sadly just not following what youre saying but it feels towny ur just thoughtspewing so keep it up bud

[Reformed Toxic Player]

u know everytime i roll town i feel this enormous pressure to go 3/3 day 1 and it sucks

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Unless Elements is just scum and RTP is good or bussing their partner again.

haha i regretted that decision at first dont you remember?

but it ended up working only because of the setup itself and how it worked - ya know that.

have you seen the reasoning I presented for why I think elements is town now? i think that they're just wrong town. GC feels more scummy and my theory that they were setting up to go from an elements lim to me feels plausible.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

u know everytime i roll town i feel this enormous pressure to go 3/3 day 1 and it sucks

Same kinda. I really hate missing on day 1 mainly because it feels like we will fall too behind

and then when u do hit scum d1 town just shits the bed

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things

This feels very agenda’y’

I was only pointing out the truth ? How is this agenda-y?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

alright im out for now - sorry for the extra 5 pages to anyone not in this conversation, it helped me so sux 2 be u lole(sorry tho fr)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i suspected you, i asked you to answer the Q you were ignoring, you said "why is this scummy", said you had answered the Q (you hadn't) and I was misrepping you, i explained why scummy, you said my reasons were BS and that you understood the FOSes on me.

all starts from Post 464 and takes like 10 posts for you to go "you suspect me?" to "you're suspicious"

Post 462*

I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things

The above is just another scummy mischaracterization - forgets conveniently that they accused me of not pushing the game forward and is not using that point at all here. What changed?
They're basically gaslighting me trying to be vague about events bc theyre scum trying to weave a tapestry, not town trying to read genuinely .
it's just scum trying to discred someone guning for their partner

Their reads just REEK of someone who pick and chose ppl and made a read based on conveniencd. Townread the loud and active ppl, scumread the less loud (with the addition of the person who's loudly gunning for your head)

Someone please give me a sanity check like i feel confident here but i need a 3rd party opinion between this LOL i dont wanna be wrong here

And if we apply the "pushing game forward " scumread logic - we can easily say GC is scum for not pushing the game forward. Their own reasoning- not mine.

heres context - i hate getting quoted out of context like that when the context is highly relevant.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things

This feels very agenda’y’

I think this is a bit of a reach actually.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree here.

before I go - please try to explain how you think it was agenda-y in the context, like whats my agenda. (or maybe you just think its scummy, and are using bad words?? bc idk what u mean there) are u townreading GC is that why?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can you cite a scum game of mine where my reads were this chaotic btw

No I can’t cite any game where you’ve been this chaotic at all. It’s confusing as hell to me. That’s why I’m struggling with how to read you.

God I feel this.

Rereading this realized that andres is implying im not like this as town ~ will link games later on bc this is false.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Can everyone please stop self-metaing. It is garbage.

Got a problem with me proving that im <rand scum due to meta? I'm providing the meta so you can evaluate. It's up to you to say if you believe me or not - I'm not gonna hold your hand.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

this is my town game

I cc

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Can everyone please stop self-metaing. It is garbage.

Got a problem with me proving that im <rand scum due to meta? I'm providing the meta so you can evaluate. It's up to you to say if you believe me or not - I'm not gonna hold your hand.

I actually don't need you to hold my hand is what I'm saying. And I'm not directing this comment just at you. There have been multiple references to self meta in this game and it makes me want to puke. I'm not opposed to meta use, but arguing 'this is my town game' is incredibly useless since if a person is aware of their meta, they can play against it.

That's fine and dandy but theres a point where its a huge stretch for a player to be scum playing a certain way when history/evidence suggests otherwise.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oh wait i remember u now BM u were the one i took advantage of in open 799 and kept u alive on purpose ....

[Reformed Toxic Player]

datisi any reason u have been dodging this thread btw? noticed u been posting elsewhere recently and not here

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I caught up to where I replaced in, reading but not really

thinking

about the game or taking notes, definitely not an easy game to form reads on, just trying to get current.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oh wait i remember u now BM u were the one i took advantage of in open 799 and kept u alive on purpose ....

lol bad example dude, i had you pegged from the start, just couldn't get anyone else on board. team game is mafia.

had me pegged from the start... yet didnt vote me when i made it to limlo.... curious...

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Theres just that energy of just hedginess and not pushing to solve slots, just in keeping options open

yeah that's something i kinda didn't get, bc it seemed to me a lot of people he put as not willing to vote are people that have been pushed (i.e. lotus, italiano, elements)

UNVOTE:
Mmmmm

UNVOTE:

what prompted this again?

It's like you're not even trying to evaluate the people pushing on you, but instead calling them scum with blanket terms like bad faith.

did i hallucinate the discussion i had with baltar yesterday about duchess or

i'm rereading 869

then i'm rereading this page

and i'm wondering if lotus is town here, for the sole reason of "is scum really *this* tone-deaf?"

can you explain this reaction to 869?

it's like, scum are often more self-aware than town, right. and in cases like these, there's often a thought, is this too batshit insane to come from scum? like, at what point is something so fucking bad it just can't be scum? because his case on baltar is uhh... a dumpster fire?

the vibe i'm getting from duchess' 989 is town who gets super fixated on things that are important to them, then gets frustrated when other people don't see it that way / don't pay attention to same details and mistake that for scum

how are you slotting this as town rather than NAI?

it's the ~vibe~
idk, it read genuine. like they truly did believe they were onto something with elements, and got pissed off when someone else wasn't seeing that / was ignoring their read.

I need to read (I’m doing that now so give me like an hour or two to update all of my reads), but it’s really hard to pinpoint exact Scum on a wagon for a player you think is Town yeah?

no, i agree it's difficult. but like, i feel that town, when they see someone they think is town getting wagoned, they're more likely to think "ok, this vote i can see, this vote is pure garbage, etc", as opposed to just blanket-saying "ye probably scum on that wagon lol".

RTP is pushing {GC, Elements}, and you RLotus are pushing {VPB, ItalianoVD} while leaving Elements at null and attacking some of the “lurker” slots. Somethings not right.

I would gamble Datisi is siding somewhat incorrectly?

But is maybe too transparent with their logic and reads for Scum. I also thought Battle Mage was Town and don’t understand the discredit there from RTP.

sorry, what does this mean?

bottom of pg 47 yay

elements was being like super like "wtf lol" to me while i was pushing GC like they were super clueless on why i was pushing them over GC like it was such a play that was ... unpartnered that I had to step back and reeval again.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

I highly suggest you have some humility when it comes to your reads because you seem to be ego playing and it really isn't conducive to a town win. It also makes it hard to ascertain your alignment here - as you are just being stubborn and stubbornness is just a trait that is easily adopted into scumplay.

Like can you at least try to interact with me please?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

At the very least BM -> if I'm eliminated can you promise me you will abandon your reads and sheep mine instead? Because you're likely going to endgame here and I'm not down to have you misvote again, since I actually rolled town here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

Ok well I've become accustomed to you tunenling town day 1 every game, have at it dude

some players just refuse to improve and just do the same thing repeatedly hoping it hits >rand

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VPB

- Makes pushes with no conclusion. Not attempting to solve the game. Extremely shallow/surface level reads on myself and Dunn.
Green Crayons - I don't have a big case on him. Potentially whit knighted Elements and VPB if he is town. RTP seems confident.
Harumi- Absent
midwaybear- kinda just nullish

sorry mate but none of this is particularly compelling. 4 scumreads, 2 of which are "absent" and "null". Although I'd say that's marginally better than "RTP seems confident".

VPB is an interesting take, but not for me today.

can we plz get a

votecount?

Ok well I've become accustomed to you tunenling town day 1 every game, have at it dude

unnecessary shade, given im not even close to tunnelling anyone dude - the point of me asking for your case, was literally to help me decide who to vote for.

You didn't have anything, and now you're shading me.

shade is warranted - your game history is public

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Ok - if you're actually reading along to what im saying, can you tell me what my current scumreads are without ISOing me?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

@mod i think you accidentally rolled 4 scum into this game, thats typically unbalanced for a mini :eyeroll:

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I caught up to where I replaced in, reading but not really

thinking

about the game or taking notes, definitely not an easy game to form reads on, just trying to get current.

I think you TMI'd my slot town, for starters (kidding, kidding). You're going to be disappointed, I don't have structured thoughts at this point, just weak gut feelings. Feeling some level of town on Datisi, Duchess, Elements, RTP, and VP Baltar. I'm not really sure why people were scumreading Italiano, his early play was a little awkward initially but I never felt there was a string case there. He made a few posts later that I liked. I think Green Crayons came off worse in his arguments with Duchess and RTP, want to dig into the weeds thereto be sure but felt the way he was arguing was underhanded at times. I know that a lurking Dunnstral isn't always a scum Dunnstral, unfortunately, but his responses to people have felt rather flat. I feel like I need to give the game a second pass to have more concrete analysis, this was a speedread because after the first few pages I found it difficult to put down thoughts on what was going on so I stopped trying.

how dare you

[Reformed Toxic Player]

sorry if im making the game a bad environment im really really frustrated with BM and im holding back a lot in terms of what I want to say. they won't even approach me in good faith when I'm trying to extend the olive branch and talk out stuff or like they are just framing anything I say as scum motivated and it really like ticks me off when ppl do that bc its like .. idk.

its like - are you just gonna sit there and tunnel me and just not play the game and just omgus anyone who doubts that im scum?


bc thats what im seeing as the basis of ur reads rn - anyone who is doubting u is scum and its like frustrating to see cuz im starting to just straight lean town on u bc idek what agenda u can be focused on here. like theres been a TON thats happened thats made me reeval myself - and others have too and that makes me feel that others should be too - bc I'm definitely town here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

i'll only say this once dude - i'm not gonna respond to any posts which i personally consider disrespectful or discourteous (notwithstanding, completely inaccurate). Your attempts at baiting me are pointless - if you need to let off some negative steam, please keep it out of the game as it isn't fun for anybody. thanks!

That's rich coming from the dude who's just hardtunneling people and never tries to engage in good faith and thinks that its a good play.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

k im done im gonna come back later. I'm not done with you battle mage. I really dont fucking care how much you think I'm scum, you should be willing to talk to me about stuff instead of shutting up and refusing to reeval. I'll tell you firsthand I have done that tactic and it didn't work out. It never works out. It just leads to a wasted push. and you like trying to cry victim when you're the one making the game unenjoyable for me with a shitpush is peak hypocrisy. You're here to play a game with all of us. Act like it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also - as a final note. My pronouns are they them. Don't use masculine terms to refer to me. I'm not gonna repeat it again.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM isn't interested in progressing their own read because it would require them to admit they were wrong and humility isn't their thing.

i'll only say this once dude - i'm not gonna respond to any posts which i personally consider disrespectful or discourteous (notwithstanding, completely inaccurate). Your attempts at baiting me are pointless - if you need to let off some negative steam, please keep it out of the game as it isn't fun for anybody. thanks!

My apologies. I am quite annoyed with how this game is going if it isn't obvious.

Do you find any of my read progressions unnatural that I can clarify you? Because I believe you reason for scumleaning me is flawed and obviously know it is wrong.

all good brother. i'm just feeling quite ambivalent about it all. i've said we can do someone else other than you.

Who are you looking at other than myself and RTP?

I think I'm pretty locked on RTP now - partly for being scummy, and partly for continuing to behave in a negative way, even after my polite request. I'm not normally one to advocate for policy-elims, but everyone else is pretty chill and we just need to elim somebody asap, and I think there's a good chance of a scumflip!

I'll VOTE: RTP again just to create some inspiration.

If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll hopefully re-read the game in the light of flips and find some renewed motivation!

what is wrong with u

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ego to the nth degree

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i gave YOU a polite request to actually engage me, this isn't happy sunshine flower land you dont get to demand me to talk to you in a certain way when you clearly haven't earned it with how you have chosen to interact with me.

do you like understand why you have such low accuracy in games?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

in fact anyone who is town here should 1000% sheep the opposite of BM today - they've basically confirmed me as town here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

is there a reason why you're town on lotus that's not about that one post?

That post pushed it over into a comfortable town read just because I think it's a low likelihood for scum to post that sort of thing. Before that, I was toying with town because of his tunnel on VD. He saw some early play that he thought looked scummy, and then stuck with it in a way that I find myself doing when convinced I've got scum. His openness about the fact he was tunneling doesn't do him any favors, so I don't see the "scum tunnel so they can be lazy" theory fitting.

thanks for the townread on me here

[Reformed Toxic Player]

is "directing traffic" scummy? yeah i like to exert control over the game state. so what?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

is there a reason why you're town on lotus that's not about that one post?

That post pushed it over into a comfortable town read just because I think it's a low likelihood for scum to post that sort of thing. Before that, I was toying with town because of his tunnel on VD. He saw some early play that he thought looked scummy, and then stuck with it in a way that I find myself doing when convinced I've got scum. His openness about the fact he was tunneling doesn't do him any favors, so I don't see the "scum tunnel so they can be lazy" theory fitting.

thanks for the townread on me here

okay

grass is blue and sky is green

if this is stuff you're townreading, by proxy you should be townreading me - im just applying your own logic elsewhere.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

cool - if i get flipped how about you do something useful and sheep me on my townread there. thanks bud.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

It’s nai, but in the context of this game it feels scummy.

Just clarify, directing traffic is nai, not jumping around.

Yeah I’m going here today.
VOTE: RTP

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

[Reformed Toxic Player]

zzzz

how about u just like help instead of just letting ppl like BM be allowed to be platformed and not have takes like theirs shut down when they're clearly bad??????

hey if you're town you need to actually speak up if you do townread me because im tired of fucking doing this shit alone and having to feel antagonized by shittunnels on my slot every game

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

cool - if i get flipped how about you do something useful and sheep me on my townread there. thanks bud.

with the greatest respect in the world, i'm unlikely to sheep your reads regardless of what you flip. not because I'm "egotistical" or "stubborn", but because:

A. I'm sure that once you're dead, the game will be more fun and I'll feel more motivated to actually form more developed reads of my own. At the moment it's hard to get invested when I'm dealing with your nonsensical personal attacks (and I'd rather be un-invested than respond in kind).
B. This is a strong playerlist, and there are other players here I'd be sheeping before you.

you're an ass.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

straight up telling a person you're shittunneling that the game will be fun without them is shitty as hell - i dont care what alignment you are. knock it the fuck off.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM - go take a look at your own ISO, and tell me if you were town in MY position how would you feel with the way you are talking to me. Just try it. Maybe some empathy won't hurt.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Yeah I got out of line for calling out your accuracy and shit and sorry for that - but literally like - the way you're approaching me is super frustrating and anti town fmpov and quite honestly is making me upset irl bc of how little control I feel i have here bc theres no one here to back me up.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

like holy fuck like hell the fact no one has spoken up in a vocal way about it should point me towards town like ........wow.

italiano, you saw how active i was in scumchat and directing stuff, you saw how i told you to pretend to omgus you. you should freaking know.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i will fight every vote on me hard enough that every scum will have to be voting me in order to get an elim through on me. i promise that.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

(for fucking real tho on any other mafia website I'd be universally townread by this point its kinda ridiculous lmfao)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

lol dude you're just being a jerk to me for no reason, what did you expect? I guess you thought you could get away with it because you have a low opinion of me - although I don't know why you have a low opinion of me, given you have barely any experience with me and don't really know me at all.

my advice to you, in recognition of my 2007 join-date as you brought it up, would be that behaving in a way that you know is toxic is likely to make players want to policy elim you - and that's where you are now with me - which is bad for your own wincon and bad for the game as a whole. I'd much rather just play the game with people who wanna play the game, rather than with somebody who is more interested in making personal digs. You are a minority of 1 in this game - everyone else is being perfectly nice.

Dont worry, I'm not going to blacklist you from games or anything like that - I'm a believer in people learning from their mistakes, and hopefully this is instructive for you. You were perfectly fine in our last game together, so I don't really know what's gotten into you here.

You are incorrigible.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

lol dude you're just being a jerk to me for no reason, what did you expect? I guess you thought you could get away with it because you have a low opinion of me - although I don't know why you have a low opinion of me, given you have barely any experience with me and don't really know me at all.

my advice to you, in recognition of my 2007 join-date as you brought it up, would be that behaving in a way that you know is toxic is likely to make players want to policy elim you - and that's where you are now with me - which is bad for your own wincon and bad for the game as a whole. I'd much rather just play the game with people who wanna play the game, rather than with somebody who is more interested in making personal digs. You are a minority of 1 in this game - everyone else is being perfectly nice.

Dont worry, I'm not going to blacklist you from games or anything like that - I'm a believer in people learning from their mistakes, and hopefully this is instructive for you. You were perfectly fine in our last game together, so I don't really know what's gotten into you here.

Are you simply unwilling to see him as town at this point?

please they/them pronouns

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i will fight every vote on me hard enough that every scum will have to be voting me in order to get an elim through on me. i promise that.

that's unfortunate, for all of us.

got a reads list?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

zzzz

how about u just like help instead of just letting ppl like BM be allowed to be platformed and not have takes like theirs shut down when they're clearly bad??????

hey if you're town you need to actually speak up if you do townread me because im tired of fucking doing this shit alone and having to feel antagonized by shittunnels on my slot every game

yes, can RTP's scumbuddies please speak up, otherwise we might struggle to find them tomorrow.

if I had scumbuddies theyd have spoken up way way before. you're just being extremely stubborn at this point to ignore any line of logic that points away from me being scum so you can grudge me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

My apologies the T1 avi trips me up haha

no worries - its all part of the theme.

thanks for saying something but unfortunately you're the worst candidate here since BM here also FOSes you. anyone like outside of midway/rllotus (who are my top 2 townreads wow) would be more effective.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok list those reasons then. i'll wait.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im willing to bet any reasons that are given are reasons that i'm actually town -> which i will prove after these reasons are provided.

italiano looks rly bad with their momentum vote onto me btw -> pulling me up to a major wagon is a scummy move to me considering the way they reached their conclusion.

im like not as sure on GC anymore it might just be their posting style and theyre just omgusing me bc of a clash of personality - and the reasons ive been in so much shit this game is bc ive been fosing mostly town and scum have been content to just do nothing and let it pile on.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i do solemnly swear that if we elim RTP today, I will be a good and productive and devoted townie tomorrow (as I won't be dodging RTP's snark in the thread)

and if we don't elim RTP today, I will be a total grump.

i have a scummy feeling about midway btw, but that's one for later

but please never ever play with me again. these kinds of unwarranted lines are unnecessary if you're not going to cite anything to back it up.

your play right now consists of hardfocusing my slot and waving off any sort of criticism of your read with "haha idc they're being mean to me anyways so i'll be lazy and keep my vote here"


you're not even concerned about being wrong. you're just straight grudge tunneling me like you fucking do in all your games towards ppl on d1. you've been on this site since 2007 - how can you ingrain such habits and not like realize that MAYBE you're doing something wrong????????

lol dude you're just being a jerk to me for no reason, what did you expect? I guess you thought you could get away with it because you have a low opinion of me - although I don't know why you have a low opinion of me, given you have barely any experience with me and don't really know me at all.

my advice to you, in recognition of my 2007 join-date as you brought it up, would be that behaving in a way that you know is toxic is likely to make players want to policy elim you - and that's where you are now with me - which is bad for your own wincon and bad for the game as a whole. I'd much rather just play the game with people who wanna play the game, rather than with somebody who is more interested in making personal digs. You are a minority of 1 in this game - everyone else is being perfectly nice.

Dont worry, I'm not going to blacklist you from games or anything like that - I'm a believer in people learning from their mistakes, and hopefully this is instructive for you. You were perfectly fine in our last game together, so I don't really know what's gotten into you here.

Are you simply unwilling to see him as town at this point?

Not as such - I'm mostly being pragmatic that we need to elim someone like yesterday, and I'm picking RTP. It's possible they're town, but I don't have a particular stronger scumread, and it's partly driven by a selfish interest for a more chilled game.

I'm oftentimes n1'd or n2'd so you dont have to worry about me too much.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im willing to bet any reasons that are given are reasons that i'm actually town -> which i will prove after these reasons are provided.

italiano looks rly bad with their momentum vote onto me btw -> pulling me up to a major wagon is a scummy move to me considering the way they reached their conclusion.

im like not as sure on GC anymore it might just be their posting style and theyre just omgusing me bc of a clash of personality - and the reasons ive been in so much shit this game is bc ive been fosing mostly town and scum have been content to just do nothing and let it pile on.

maybe im taking the wrong approach im like trying to find a mafia team that fits on d1 and keep trying to swap them in and out.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

and BM - I'm like again telling you - I would not be this pressed about this push if I was scum - I'd have ppl to back me up and to control the thread in a different direction. I'd literally just ignore you like I did in our last game because I never felt threatened by the reasoning you pulled against me because I knew I could argue my way out of it with the other townies.

Like please at least engage with at least one of my lines of logic im providing against you and try to refute it bc u just saying "nuh uh ur mean anyways" is like peak frustrating because what the hell am i supposed to do here. if I were to suddenly just start being nice to you like all happy and stuff you'd just probably accuse me of trying to pocket you. I'm pretty sure i feel like i can't win with you unless you make the conscious decision to step back and reset your position on me and reeval.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I can interact respectfully - but I also expect the same level of respect in turn which requires you to actually engage with me and not tell me that you just are voting me for the sole purpose of removing me from the game for your own selfish grudge. Please acknowledge that because it deeply hurts me when you keep repeating that towards me.

I can be very jovial and nice - provided you just are willing to have a conversation with me. Sorry for the mean stuff - I'm frustrated and it was out of line. You and I both know that this isn't pro town to continue like this.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: VPB

VOTE: vpb

[Reformed Toxic Player]

we literally laughed it off in scumchat and post game so not sure where i would ever think its bc im mad.

you're kinda just saying "yeah i fos u cant change my mind no matter what logic you present to me" here rather than pushing a mindset of wanting to sort a slot. I'm just suspicious where you went from town on me to wanting to full on flip me. I'm already expecting the vpb question - I have an answer for that myself. I do expect you have one here that doesn't amount to just the questions/vote thing because I have explained it.

i fully explained my vote on you - it was literally to try to sort you. did you miss the whole thing where it wasnt a reads list, and it was a list of reasons to townread each slot? go back and look - those reads are in order by slot number. go back to page 1. its literally just a description of reasons i should potentially townread the slot.

and no - i think my gc push could have gone through when push comes to shove. my elements push for sure would have gone through if i kept pushing it. being fluid and reevaluating should ping you as towny.

and that brings me to your point about jumping around - you just basically restated what i said.

I just think your shift towards me is suspicious and feels fake/fabricated considering I did in fact answer why I voted you + explained the trustfalls list. And my play being "strange" isn't a scumtell.

What about my replies were bad to you? wanna elaborate on it?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP looks more town, simply because I don't think they get that worked up in thread as scum.

In related news, I'd appreciate if we stop with the toxicity and gaslighting this game. It is way over the top and unnecessary, nor fun for anyone. It's just a game, let's all chill and have fun.

me rn while scumreading vpb still after posting something like this that appeals to my frustrations

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ah fuck it i cant UNVOTE:

UNVOTE: maybe i should just replace in on my main instead so i stop alt slipping lmfao

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: duchess

lurker wagon hype

[Reformed Toxic Player]

baltar is being town irl

VOTE: vpb

can i ask the vpb question

oh, if you think italiano's vote/progression on you is bad why are you lurkerwagoning duchess?

I was like just frustrated voting idk where scum is anymore rly I'm kinda just having trouble

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i'm referring to your misuse of pronouns, which happened a couple of times even after they asked

...not intentional dude.

you did it in open 799 too its just clear you dont care to be careful. its the one thing i dont tolerate from people when its a continued thing. its making me uncomfortable posting in this game seeing it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

:

lmao maybe i could but thatd be like a play for a game i really really wanted to win as scum not just like a one off normal for me where i'd go with my more comfortable plays that have worked for me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM, my guy. i was responding to Baltar asking me about RTP's emotional response to you. I would prefer that you and RTP don't keep it up.

I'm still here on RTP. Come back. It's warm and cozy. Or how about maxwell for lazily riding RTP's coattails in pushing a GC vote on weaksauce theory, after RTP early called his slot town.

this post doesn't make sense to me here -> are you trying to claim maxwell/me are SvT? or what? bc you're implying im getting pocketed by maxwell by this, yet I moved off of you so im not following that path rn.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM-to-English translation:

1. you were already voting RTP so i don't need to encourage you to vote. also i was explaining why i was seeing RTP's emotional response as NAI, because his frustration seemed genuine about a non-game issue, so i don't know how that leads to whatever you're saying.

2. that's mean.

The situation with RTP was settled, and you tried to instigate conflict for no apparent reason. I don't know what's mean, and I genuinely don't want to know. Can we get back to either discussing people to elim, or just elimming someone with the info we have so we can move the game on?

its not really settled if you're still pushing me with intent to grudge vote me. I gave you like multiple chances and you're still not engaging and just pushing me for the sake of pushing and not trying to solve outside.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm just ignoring you mostly now because it feels like talking to a wall at this point plus your non game related comment about gender kinda made me personally not want to talk to you more.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Because you're saying GC is being opportunistic -> so that means you're viewing me as town here BM, and GC scum instigating?

because why else would you say that. why does scum try to escalate their partners 1v1s? And how do I even fit with GC as a partner when we have been tunneled on eachother for a good portion of the day phase?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im not even voting you dude, what are you on about?

My bad. You're right.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

sorry I'm not so caught up on recent posts - I'll reread now.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

btw been lurking thread the past hour or so, was just watching cause I didn't wanna consume the thread with my presence since ive been extra active the night before and i wanted to give others a chance to talk more (i literally have 1/5th of the posts in this thread)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Btw I really do think Lotus is just Scum here.

can you just trust that we can sort that more in the long run - if they stay alive for a while they will show their colors more obviously - i do trust they are newer.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im leaning town there - at the very least if they are scum they're pocketing me and i like having the extra vote

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

btw i dont mean this as a "i think you're scum" kinda question - i mean it as a "hey lets dissect your thought process bc I disagree" kinda question.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

i've played with votato a lot - learning that the slot was votato actually clarified my read there.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

I did

Spoiler:

Lunar was playing very different than the two games I played with him. As a townie, even on day one, way more involved and none of those goofy one liners and short answers.

why do you keep spoilering your quotes?

also i dont think thats an effective way of reading votato?? ur talking to someone whos played more games with the person in question - as they were a bypassing banned user.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

i've played with votato a lot - learning that the slot was votato actually clarified my read there.

That was so early and they just posted some reads flatly and then got replaced. Why are you so sure of that read? I don’t know if this is meant for me (probably Italiano) but I’m mighty confused as to why you’re holding on to that read so hard.

I have a certain confidence in reading that player - and midway has done nothing that pings me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

as much as I don't like how GC has been pushing the game -> theres a certain like aura around the situation that makes me feel like GC is town here whos wrong. theres also another reason im more hesitant in pushing there atm that may reveal itself in the future.

the way the game has been going - i think theres at least 1 scum in lurkers rn - dunns/duchess.

if I had to have a PoE right now: italiano, dunn, andres(something doesnt feel right here), duchess, elements(just based on them falling off and my flip on my GC read here)

wew the more like i was trying to make that poe the more i realized how many ppl i didnt feel comfortable putting into it ? if this doesnt contain all scum - it needs to be reevalled heavily and isn't useful at all.

if im like 0/5 literally deleting this account LOL

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I have a certain confidence in reading that player - and midway has done nothing that pings me.

also i dont think thats an effective way of reading votato?? ur talking to someone whos played more games with the person in question - as they were a bypassing banned user.

What if I'm covering your blind spot. How many times have you thought you knew someone and/or how they played only to find out, "oh crap they were a wolf" I know I've experienced it on many occasion.

people i've played with? very rarely.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: italiano

yolo

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ive hit this point of serenity where I feel as though now I want nothing more than a flip to happen.

i dont think ive ever felt this before in a game LOL

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Official Vote Count 1.12

A playground slide in Tychy, Poland

---

Elimination

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate someone.

ItalianoVD (4): Reformed Toxic Player, Datisi, RLotus, VP Baltar
Elements (2): Dunnstral, Battle Mage
Green Crayons (2): maxwell, Andresvmb
midwaybear (1): ItalianoVD
Reformed Toxic Player (1): Green Crayons
VP Baltar (1): Duchess
RLotus (1): Elements

Not Voting

(1): midwaybear

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-02-28 21:49:12).

Mod notes: Battle Mage has requested replacement. Still searching for a replacement for Duchess.

[/area]

you know whats crazy is that I think I've seen that exact slide when I visited poland 15 years ago.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

he was talking about my prior vote on max. which like, i disagree with it being wasted, because scum's gotta be somewhere, and at this point i don't have a problem voting for someone i don't townread.

We clearly have different philosophies about what makes sense, so I don’t want to get too bogged down on this. But to be transparent with you, you sitting alone or on a 2 person wagon as Town doesn’t help. To me, broadly speaking, it helps the Scum. Unless you’re able to convince people you’re correct (and I think you’re just wrong there but whatever), then it’s a total waste of time in my view. Yeah, Scum’s gotta be somewhere. But you’re giving the Scum more leverage to direct the execution if you take yourself out if you will by voting for a wagon that is unlikely to materialize (in my estimation).

last minute wagons can materialize and hit scum idm datisi voting his heart

[Reformed Toxic Player]

there's something about the VCA that i wanna keep to myself rn - i wanna say it in twilight in case its relevant.

it might sound crazy too. but bear with me i need to out these theories so ppl at least consider them in the future in case im dead

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Benefits of a Dunn wagon: he has contributed nothing despite me trying to prompt interaction from him several times. He may be following the thread and just not posting. When he does post, they are mostly just prod dodge type posts. There is no guarantee he is going to suddenly become useful later in the game.

Downside: if he flips scum, there isn't a lot of info to go on.

Ah the classic town shitting themselves on a d1 scum elim making wrong assumptions on associatives the rest of the game.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Benefits of a Dunn wagon: he has contributed nothing despite me trying to prompt interaction from him several times. He may be following the thread and just not posting. When he does post, they are mostly just prod dodge type posts. There is no guarantee he is going to suddenly become useful later in the game.

Downside: if he flips scum, there isn't a lot of info to go on.

Ah the classic town shitting themselves on a d1 scum elim making wrong assumptions on associatives the rest of the game.

What? Who am I making associatives on?

It wasnt to you it was a general statement abt lucky scum elims d1

11th time so far? Lol
gotta keep quoting these so theyre in my iso lolol

[Reformed Toxic Player]

@Elements @BM might as well just vote me. We can end this day and you guys can catch the scum that’s on my wagon.

Ya know saying stuff like this just dirties up your wagon. Elements and BM or whoever you are prompting to vote you can just say well he literally told me to vote him how is that scummy. And well that is true. Makes it harder to find scum on your wagon.

Just sounds like anti spew to me

[Reformed Toxic Player]

k since yall prob gonna try to hammer this while im at work - ill just out my theory now ~ i will ellaborate on this tomorrow if im alive but if somehow italiano flips town, im looking at a crackpot theory of andres, maxwell, GC.


but the way italiano formed their reads list suggests they arent flipping town so im not too pressed about it, i just would rather do this in case im nightkilled and all.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

but the way italiano formed their reads list suggests they arent flipping town

How did they form their reads list?

very poorly

but interesting u chose to latch onto that vs actually catching up.
Do you disagree with italiano scum? Do you think their reads list is accurate?

That feel when the three top wagons (as of 1440) are your three stated townreads

This post pings me

Feels like something that comes from scum

1132 and 1362 feel scummy to me as well

VOTE: midwaybear

No it doesn't
Why is it scum?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I claim macho modifier.