Mini 1429 - Hunt in the Dungeon - Game Over

[Mac]

VOTE: Revenus

only name I recognise.

[Mac]

Didn't you see? Slandaar is conf town!

[Mac]

Rev raises a good point about Slandaar's argument against him: seems very weak and hypocritical considering he's doing the same thing

[Mac]

Prod dodge, my apologies.

Current issues then, like the Twitch wagon that's just created itself. I'm not sure how or why it's formed but I have gathered an opinion from it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: russianov

What makes you think this is the right person to bandwagon then? Please don't hide behind other people's opinions on him either

[Mac]

Rev raises a good point about Slandaar's argument against him: seems very weak and hypocritical considering he's doing the same thing

I am just going to say what Rev said!

However, I must say even though Rev may have made a good point I am going to keep voting him!!!

My vote was RVS, I hadn't moved it because I wanted to see how it developed between you two. Maybe I should've if I didn't want to look like I was 'taking sides' so to speak. I still stand by the point and was just re-iterating the fact that your argument was hypocritical. That was my two cents on it.

Please don't hide behind other people's opinions on him either

and for twisting my words.

(He made an accusation of his own it doesn't matter what you think of it)

He was also 'hiding' behind what Rev said earlier...

Hey, you're a clever guy who can spot the difference apparently (see #93) - I'm sure you can see the difference between my post and russianov's. I'll give you a clue: I didn't hide behind Rev's argument and vote you, merely agreed with him about you.

Ok, he made an accusation of 'twisting his words' - can you point out where he did this? Russian has made, as far as I can see, no retaliation to his words being twisted until now when he had to find an excuse to jump onto a wagon.

Oh right, forgot to mention mac.

He comes in and fuels the flames of me/Slandaar, then gets called out by the person he's attacking (Slandaar) and the next time he posts, he completely drops this and goes after a "hotter" bandwagon.

throw him in the scummy pile too.

Yeah, if I wanted to go for a hotter wagon, I would've made some ridiculous reason for voting Twitch too. As for "adding fuel," I commented my thoughts about the argument you were in and how I felt you were making a good case against Slandaar. What about when russianov "added fuel" too?

I'm stating the obvious, but I think either rev or slen are mafia. I'm leaning towards Rev because he seems way too defensive over nothing.

I'm not sure when Slandaar called me out and I dropped it, I'll have a look back because I must've missed it.

This is probably scum btw

It is horrendus parrotting on something which is clearly not right in the first place.

Assuming this is it? I think I've answered this already.

[Mac]

He voted.

[Mac]

It does. It means he has hidden behind others and jumped on a wagon. You said Twitch twisted his words but the only thing close to twisted words I could find was don johnson talking about it - if anyone did, he twisted words.

Even then, russian hasn't commented on that.

Pedit:

A says x is scum due to P's case
B says y is scum due to Q's case and votes

The vote makes B scummy? no it doesn't it means nothing in fact incriminates A more for not voting.

No, that's easy to say that out of context.

A says X is scum due to P's case which is still going on at the time.
B says Y is scum for something that happened 3 pages ago, which before then he hadn't even commented on until he voted.

Even then, where did twitch twist his words? And more importantly, why hasn't russian pushed the 'twisting' of words until now?

[Mac]

Oh really? How are you of course town?

That last sentence is just bollocks, I've already said I didn't 'pick sides' at the time because I wanted to see how it developed. If I had just said "yeah I agree with Rev" and voted you, would you carry on in this game as though I wasn't scum? No you wouldn't.

Now, are you going to give your views on the case against russianov or just continually attack me for it?

[Mac]

@ don - I wasn't suggesting you twisted his words, but that's the only thing I can find even remotely related to the point russianov made.

I have to go out now Slandaar so will answer you when I'm back, but if you think nothing is scummy by russianov can you please point out where Twitch twisted his words?

[Mac]

Slandaar.. can't you see my point here? If russianov thoughts his words were being twisted, why didn't he say anything? Why didn't he challenge twitch? Why did he leave until he was voting for him to say it?

It reeks of him waiting for others to build a bandwagon and then him saying "yep, what they said and look he twisted my words too!"

[Mac]

Town points for saying he's not putting alot of effort into this?

[Mac]

Mac vote > Ztife.

Are you telling me to vote here or pushing for a wagon on me?

If it's the former, then why? If it's the latter, then why have you dropped your case against me voting russianov and ignored my questions in #161?

[Mac]

Not sure how my point changed. I have already been corrected (I believe by yourself?) that he did make a weak reason of "he twisted my words." #161 appreciates that and is effectively a revised post of 137 but more in depth with the first 2 lines.

And still, you haven't answered. Here it is again, for you to answer.

If russianov thought his words were being twisted, why did he not bring it up until questioned by don, why didn't he retaliate to twitch twisting them? Look at #134, Delta points out that don had a worse 'twist of words' yet russianov ignored that and jumped on an easy wagon on twitch.

That question also applies to russianov too.

[Mac]

Fucking hell man, the ztife post was utterly ridiculous. Twice he's done it now too, asking us to fill him in and tell him who's scum.

VOTE: ztife

[Mac]

@Ztife yeah that's the sort of post I've been waiting for. Giving reads and opinions. Before that, yeah if you don't scum hunt i'm fine with you getting lynched if no better candidates. But yeah like that post.
Interesting about Mac, I had forgottten about him. Why opportunistic?

Prior (and after) to post 303 Mac hasn't really expressed much about my playstyle nor about what im doing to be able to justify enough his vote for me.

And a quick ISO shows he's pretty fence sitting thus far, just seems like he needs more probing.

Well he's V/LA and I don't think we're getting any pressure voting for him, [bUnvote[/b] for now.

Rev's reaction to Slaadar's supposed hammers seems

almost a little too defensive

, gotta take a closer read on that one before I comment in a bit.

I'm back now, and prior to #303 your contributions were pretty much "tell me who are scum and who I should lynch!!!" After #303, you still contribute very little other than "rev and don seem town; mac seems like opportunistic scum" and that is pretty much it.

Who are your scumreads so far then? Or are you just going to wait for someone to tell you who to lynch?

[Mac]

In case it isn't obvious Mac/Rev are on every wagon except the twitch one

No problem for solving the game town.

russianov: 3 (Mac, Twitch da Woof, Bacde)

There is your buddy mac voting Russian

I don't remember a moz wagon

I said except twitch

That was quite the desperate response.

I'm sorry, but what? You're really scraping the barrel trying to bring me into it. I'm not even sure what your point is, but neither me nor Rev was on Bacde's early wagon either. So please expand on it.

[Mac]

w.o.w. add Mac to my lynch pool. talk about pot calling the kettle black.

moz: sure sure. i'm really down with lynching Mac or Rev atm.

Why is this then don?

@Ztife yeah that's the sort of post I've been waiting for. Giving reads and opinions. Before that, yeah if you don't scum hunt i'm fine with you getting lynched if no better candidates. But yeah like that post.
Interesting about Mac, I had forgottten about him. Why opportunistic?

Prior (and after) to post 303 Mac hasn't really expressed much about my playstyle nor about what im doing to be able to justify enough his vote for me.

And a quick ISO shows he's pretty fence sitting thus far, just seems like he needs more probing.

Well he's V/LA and I don't think we're getting any pressure voting for him, [bUnvote[/b] for now.

Rev's reaction to Slaadar's supposed hammers seems

almost a little too defensive

, gotta take a closer read on that one before I comment in a bit.

I'm back now, and prior to #303 your contributions were pretty much "tell me who are scum and who I should lynch!!!" After #303, you still contribute very little other than "rev and don seem town; mac seems like opportunistic scum" and that is pretty much it.

Who are your scumreads so far then? Or are you just going to wait for someone to tell you who to lynch?

My scumreads? post 360
You're still providing nothing other than pointing out the obvious.

@Rev who do you think is scum now?

Explain them, please.

Don't like Post #547; comes across as bussing a scumbuddy. Rev actually asks about it and all you can reply is "predictable."

Slandaar has

finally

sorted himself out with regards too his argument with Rev and I can actually see where he's coming from now. Only took us 23 pages to get clear with this. VOTE: Rev - don't worry, I'm prepared for the backlash of "LOLBUS" from you but the fact is you've finally made sense.#560 is also a reason I'm voting him. Tunneling is a towntell for me.

FoS:

don.

[Mac]

If everyone could state why they vote for me then I'll do my best to answer tomorrow.

Fire away with your questions too.

[Mac]

I'm not scum you idiot, I'm on my phone and thus unable to show my innonence until later.

In the meantime, you two could make a case against me whilst in your loveshack instead of just repeating I'm scum and hoping people will believe you?

[Mac]

Are you going to wait until I'm home from work or what? And I'm not about tl die with only 2 votes on me either. Good effort though. Give me time.

[Mac]

Is both of your arguments "LOLSCUM" rather than actually providing a case?

I was at WORK Remembrance, I was browsing during my break only to notice that you two had seemingly decided I was scum. The fact you're trying to push everyone towards lynching me suggests you are scum yourself Remembrance since your only scumhunting consists of "lynch Mac!" What are you going to do when I flip town?

I don't think both of you are scum because that would be poor scum play, so I think it's Remembrance for his constant badgering. Because I walked out of Little Italy?

"He has a life, he must be scum!!!"

In fact your buddying with Slandaar and Bacde is either scum play or arselicking town, I'm going with the former.

VOTE: Remembrance

If I tell you I'm town, does that ease your concerns???

[Mac]

No I just said you were the scum, twice.

No I'm not Slandaar. Another /conftown for you.

[Mac]

If I tell you I'm town, does that ease your concerns???

The question assumes Rem is town ie only town have concerns scum just wanna lynch town they don't care who.

Em no it doesnt. It's referring to the fact that he's buddying you and Bacde because you both said you're town.

And I haven't thought Remembrace was town since the beginning, but your behaviour is suddenly odd and you're not even scumhunting. Just constantly attacking me.

Tell me, what will you do when I flip town?

[Mac]

Mac, there's a reason I only asked Bacde, Mozami(deceased, may be rest in peace), and Slandaar that question, it's because they were my heaviest town reads. You weren't, so I didn't ask you.

Oh, so because they have confirmed they're town, they're definitely town?

Someone give this man a medal.

[Mac]

I have a town win condition.

[Mac]

Rem please step forward to receive your medal from me!

VOTE: Revenus

only name I recognise.

Rev raises a good point about Slandaar's argument against him: seems very weak and hypocritical considering he's doing the same thing

(still voting Rev)

My vote was RVS, I hadn't moved it because I wanted to see how it developed between you two.

Sitting back is absolutely a scumtell here; absolutely.

Town v Town he was waiting to see which side won and guess what? as soon as it was clear I did he voted Rev even after arguing with me which was basically the only things he posted all day.

I'm sorry, but what? You're really scraping the barrel trying to bring me into it. I'm not even sure what your point is, but neither me nor Rev was on Bacde's early wagon either. So please expand on it.

He must have suspected me after posting this but in his very next post he votes Rev no problem.

don't worry, I'm prepared for the backlash of "LOLBUS"

This is also a huge scumtell because it shows hes thinking about how his actions will be perceived by others too much.

There is your case Mac.

How is sitting back a scumtell? That's me wanting to see how it develops, if I was scum I'd pick a side because I'd know they're both town. Once you actually got your case sorted, I, and many others, finally understood it. It's not hard: Rev did look scummy.

My LOLBUS reaction was assuming he'd flip scum - he didn't, I didn't know because I'm town and if he did flip scum I'm sure as hell you'd come after me for bussing him.

[Mac]

Remembrance, do you want to tell me how I ran away from the thread when I was about to be lynched? Because as far as I'm aware, I was never close to being lynched. Are you both really pushing for a quicklynch less than 24 hours into the day?

Do you have any other scumreads?

[Mac]

Remembrance you said Twitches death was the best info lynch - what have you learned from it?

[Mac]

Super-Mac-? team. Time enough to figure out number three later.

and exactly HOW have you came to this conclusion?

[Mac]

I actually agree that Don Johnson is more than likely scum, and will change my vote to show it when i'm on my pc. However, I wish to know how I am suddenly scum if DJ flips scum.

Also Limo you ignored my question a page or so ago too: please answer.

[Mac]

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Mac]

Because I find my phone shit and incredibly difficult to type with, let alone work out vote tags.

Might actually stick with my vote on you now, because you're incredibly dense and very anti-town.

VOTE: Don

FoS:

Remembrance

[Mac]

It's a possibility. My anti-town/scum vibe on you is because you are absolutely ADAMANT that I am don's scum partner which is false. Unless you knew otherwise, which you don't, it is anti-town to assume so.

[Mac]

I have other stuff on you Mac, I keep saying I have reasons, I just don't bother to explain them because it's scary how good scum can become with enough information on every player.

You must think I'm town then.

But you should seriously open up to the fact that I'm not scum.

[Mac]

Unless you knew otherwise, which you don't, it is anti-town to assume so.

LOL

OK SCUM

LOL

what?

[Mac]

@ Ztife - I stated at the end of D1 I was suspicious of him, it didn't change overnight.

i am fighting the urge to continue defending twitch. i don't see anything wrong with hisposting. imo: bacde lynch> twitch lynch. but whatevz. i've been wrong before.

unvote, vote:twitch

Self explanatory. Also, he hammered Rev without waiting for a claim which is ultimate anti-town. A bit like this

Scum: Super, Mac, and the third I'll have to read back to find.

You're retarded if you think I'm about to toss you my town reads.

[Mac]

Because I'm not scum and being so deadset on me being scum is anti-town because you're only going to look for one scum member rather than two. You're another one whose adamant I'm scum without actually providing a reason why or opening your mind to the fact that I'm not.

Good one, go town!

[Mac]

if that isn't opportunistic then I don't know what is.

don my vote is parked because I think you are scum, I've gave my reasons. Voting twitch "as a compromise" is weak especially when you have just admitted you believed he was town all along.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

Declan why would Slan defend DJ if he was SK?

[Mac]

that doesn't make sense

[Mac]

Super, what did you make of russianov's play prior to you replacing in?

[Mac]

because he's sland?

lol

@Mac: Please can you enlighten the class why it is not a slip considering you must think it is not.

well I think dj's not that daft to say "there is no vig" then accuse someone of being a SK in the very next sentence. Don't really wanna say anything else other than that.

[Mac]

Uhhhh... daft = stupid. Apologies, that's my Scots dialect creeping into my post I think.

[Mac]

Vig claim is legit, lets do this

Vote: Don_johnson

I need to know how this vig claim is legit before I vote, because I'm not sure what I believe.

[Mac]

I had a feeling dj was the vig, didn't he say something about soft-claiming vig? that's why I'm reluctant to vote. I didn't want to say it earlier. Would prefer if we didn't lynch him whilst he was V/LA, but this reeks of a scum move. unless I've totally misinterpreted his post.

[Mac]

my twitch vote was a compromise. it was day 1. mac, you are trying to make static, what was a dynamic opinion. i was willing to lynch twitch if need be. at times he seemed content to let me defend him, but overall, in the large scope, i generally understood what he was saying and thought the arguments against him were poor.

super: again. CONTEXT!

i have not seen so many cherry pickers in one place in a very long time.

again, lack of context.

Context:

DJ: VOTE TWITCH
Next Day
DJ: TWITCH WAS OBVTOWN!!!!!

If he was so obvtown there is no way you vote him; you do not compromise on people you think are obvtown (as town)

no. you are ignoring the context of the vote. nowhere did i say that twitch was "obvtown all day long". and even if i did, it was day 1 and lynches often have to come through compromise. and like i have explained, twitch accepted my defense readily. it would be egotistical of me to think that twitch could simply "not be scum". not all mafia act scummy. going into night phase, twitch was not one of my suspects. so when someone comes out and says "hey look! twitch got vigged!" it makes me a bit suspicious.

OK I voted only town yesterday. So, what? you voted a lot of town yesterday; twitch, rev, moz probably more; bacde very very likely.

bacde? really? what i get from this is that you agree that you voted two conftown and noone else. so if you are town, maybe your scumdar ain't what you think it is.

Were they trying to lynch town, or lynch someone they think is scum; do you really only see people trying to lynch townies when the person flips town? no, I don't think this is a town mentality.

my point exactly. it works both ways. so you just nullified your own point. well done. "compromising" on a lynch is town mentality. it is clearly different than oppurtunistic wagon hopping. speaking of which...

who the hell votes for an sk when there is apparently a vig soft claim on the table from another player? scum. thats who.

vote:super

This is the post I thought but when I read it back/consider Rem's post it doesn't make sense.

[Mac]

KBW has posted effectively zero content since he "caught up" with the thread

other than 2 votes with little explanation

VOTE: KBW

[Mac]

well I'm sold.

what did you learn from catching up?

[Mac]

In fact looking at your reasoning for voting rev, you probably are scum.

[Mac]

I mean look at #593. you thank mozamis for lending weight to your shit excuse for voting rev.

[Mac]

Vote him now please. Probably, we should vote super after for trying to legitimize DJ's claim, since he is probably be his scum partner working to save his partner.

I think he's referring to this

[Mac]

you suggesting i'm scum is nonsense too.

[Mac]

VOTE: DJ

[Mac]

Think about it

[Mac]

yeah, the point where i didn't actually vote declan and you just made that up. and the other people i've voted that you haven't.

But feel free to manipulate evidence to your favour.

[Mac]

can you please just stop and think for a second as to how would i know dj wasn't a SK?

[Mac]

and that's the last communication we have until dj's flip/d3. Until then you can collect your thoughts and decide if I'm scum.

[Mac]

no no no you talk to me like you know I'm scum and thus will try to manipulate evidence in your favour - which is weird if you are town. i talk to you like the clever guy you are and because I think you are town, despite this manipulation.

I think you should keep thinking.

[Mac]

VOTE: Delta

Go go go

[Mac]

Will answer all questions when I'm home too

[Mac]

Remembrance, I unvoted Don because I thought Declan's vote before it was super opportunistic and made little sense. But soon got back on it, after yourself and Slandaar made a good case against him.

You and Declan are 95% town, Slandaar around 70% (can't see scum bussing the partner so hard as he did with don - not sure where his read on me has went)

Limo could scum. Delta is probably scum. KBW could be scum or could just be a VI. How the fuck Ztife has got through this game with only 15 posts is beyond me. He's probably scum too.

So much could-be scum. I reckon KBW is just a VI though. Ztife, Limo and Delta had limited interactions with don during the two days. Limo was the only one who voted for him.

[Mac]

Actually you and Declan are definitely town. If you don't flip town, I'll be very upset.

[Mac]

Because you haven't pursued it so far. Not that you should, either, because it's wrong.

[Mac]

Yeah, because I was

totally

answering you.

[Mac]

Actually, I shouldn't make out that it's your fault because I didn't quote. Apologies. But it was meant for Slandaar.

[Mac]

Ah yes, of course.

I'll get to it now, while I'm there what's your read on Delta? And why?

[Mac]

I'm concerned about Don there, he looks very confrontational, but I'm not seeing why seemingly experienced scum would try to misrepresent a common newbie concern, so I'll be giving that the benefit of the doubt for now. Slandaar and Rev, I agree, look quite bad, but I'm still a hair more inclined towards Slandaar being scum than Rev at this stage. I'm not actually sure why. Slandaar raises illegitimate concerns and hypocritically accuses Rev of them, but Rev goes all Rambo on the defensive.

Kinda pushes the argument between mozamis and don away from don here imo whilst still trying to keep pressure on Slandaar/Rev which was on going at the time. Just seems here like he could be trying to lift the heat off don - I did think this was his & don's only interactions but I was wrong.

The single most glaring thing I have realised over the last few pages is that I find Remembrance unbearably annoying, which kind of clouds my read on him. I... think he could be town but his posts just get at me enough to slide him into the null pile whenever I think about it.

I'm convinced that one of Slandaar and Rev are scum.

Utterly convinced. They've both made well, shite arguments all game, and D1 has pretty much revolved around them, there's been Slandaar v Rev interspersed with little bouts of 'The World v Ztife' (Still game for that if anyone feels like sheeping me) and 'Bacde v Twitch' (Less convinced on a twitch lynch now). The thing is, they both have shining moments. Slandaar completely destroyed my argument against him about half a game ago, and Rev has just made a great post explaining himself, with what looks like an involuntary AtE, and so I'm utterly lost when it comes to trying to decide between the two.

Keybladewielder looks like a mad bastard. Still townreading him from YOLO's slot, but wow, you need to chill out and stop denying us your reads because of what one person said.

---

Oh, and sorry for my inactivity - I went to a 1-night houseparty that turned into a 3-day housepartaaaaay.

Ninja'd: Oh, Rev... all that shine you gained in #595... Fucking hell.

UNVOTE: Ztife

VOTE: Rev

That's L-1. If Rev flips Town, I'll want Slandaar, Ztife.

@Mod:

Only took us 23 pages to get clear with this. VOTE: Rev - don't worry, I'm prepared for the backlash of "LOLBUS" from

Doesn't follow up his scumreads. Doesn't explain why he's just left Slandaar/Ztife alone.

Delta, what's your thoughts on day two?

The other interaction between him and don was when don said we shouldn't pressure Ztife for being a lurker which I found interesting. Delta and Rev (from memory) contested this and called him out on it although it wasn't pursued by Delta afterwards.

I'm fairly confident one of Ztife/Delta will flip scum. If not both.

[Mac]

I am not scum Slandaar. Get it out of your head.

[Mac]

I don't know if KBW is village or scum. I get the feeling from him he's a bit of an idiot though: i called him a VI but he could be a scum idiot too.

[Mac]

Yes I agree with your case. I voted him yesterday too, you know.

[Mac]

By yesterday, i mean day two.

[Mac]

By yesterday, i mean day two.

I don't see how that indicates you agree with my case

You agreed with it before I made it?

No, I'm just pointing out your case wasn't the first one on KBW.

[Mac]

My town read on Slandaar is rapidly diminishing, so I had a little look at his posts to see if there was a chance he could be scum.

Spoiler: wall

Look you headless chickens just vote Rev he is actually scum unlike these terrible wagons on town Bacde and likely town Ztife

doesn't really explain why bacde is town here, seems like a bit of potential buddying to me. pretty sure his town read on ztife is effectively because he is voting 'scum Rev' which is weak as fuck, especially considering Rev was town and ztife has offered very little. a very strong read for a weak reason. bacde also said slandaar was more likely to be scum than Rev during the argument.

Hes voting Rev who is scum

That is a good indicator too

hey, wait, this is why ztife is likely town. that and bacde has said the ztife wagon looks like lazy town and scum voting lazy town.

Mac is Revs buddy yes

I did explain this a while ago

Currently thinking twitch is #3

Rev - town
Mac - town
Twitch - town

you're either a terrible scumhunter or scum.

VOTE: Mac

Yes I am obviously town.

i haven't quoted many but it's interesting his first d2 post is that he's obviously town when he tunneled the FUCK out of rev on day one who ended up town.

OK let me clear stuff up

Context:

Accusation vs Don is that there is no way scum would kill twitch and any town would know this.

DJ:

why would a vig target twitch? an "obvious soft vanilla claim"? an obvious townie? you make little sense. there is no vig. are you an sk? setting up your fakeclaim?

p-edit: what is ad hom?

Why would a vig target twitch an obvious townie (his pov) therefore no vig would do this hence he accuses Rem of being an SK.

Now; the fact is this doesn't make him an SK clearly. It is definitely not an SK slip.

But; does it make him scum? this is the more interesting question; he obviously picked up from Rem he was a vig and basically announced it in thread which is very bad.

But then we have declan not actually reading things properly accusing Don of SK and very opportunistically voting him while accusing me of being scum for some nonsense reason I have no idea because I think Don is scum?

Then Mac is trying to explain that it isn't an SK slip in some nonsense way.

NEVER MIND I FIGURED IT OUT

Mac and DJ are scum Declan is town

VOTE: DJ

STAND FIRM ON THIS TOWN.

DJ is scum because he should as town never ever be saying he thinks Rem is the vig/sk and his argument that a vig wouldn't kill Twitch is bad when there was clearly a lot of suspicion on twitch yesterday.

lol, finds another person to link me with. first it was rev, then don.

KBW could be scum or could just be a VI.

So much could-be scum. I reckon KBW is just a VI though.

Mac doing exactly what KBW has been doing;

Here is the facts when someone is new they are either new town or new scum they are not 'noob town or scum' the difference is actually huge.

Mac you are trying to say KBW is a VI here, FINE, why isn't he a SI (scum idiot)?

today it's KBW. i don't know KBW's alignment but i'm fairly certain slan is scum. he probably bussed DJ because he could link up alot of people with dj that weren't scum. plus, you know, dj had pretty much sunk into his own grave.

It coincides with why I lived today as well, I figured either Slandaar or I would die today, but instead Bacde did. What did Bacde do that we didn't do? Suspect Limo.

he probably didn't have slandaar down as confirmed town. like you do. like declan does. this little triangle thing is perfect for him. think about it. why would you not die when you are pretty much confirmed as vig? why would declan not die despite voting the shit out of dj (albeit for the wrong reason but he probably would never go to town on his buddy like that) ? why would slandaar not die despite being "confirmedtown" in everyone's eyes?

slandaar is not dead because he is scum. you are not dead because you think he's town. likewise, declan.

Spoiler: wall

as for slan's case on KBW, well he's picking and choosing points to choose his argument.

"not reading everything closely"
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bacde

note how this post doesn't crop up. he votes bacde for a legit reason here, sure bacde was town, but KBW is being as lazy as "likely-town Ztife" if not more, yet he gets voted.

Well considering KBW is scum we should probably lynch him today.

VOTE: Revenus

Hmmm... his posts the entire game have been somehow... off.
Either He's a total noob, or he's scum. Take your pick.
He's scum, I think.

Rev(town)
Noob or Scum I say scum!

isn't this incredibly rich from you? KBW considered the fact that rev

could've

been town where as you set your sights on him being scum and went from there.

VOTE: Superdeclan

Bad logic. Bad logic.

Declan (Very likely town) Bad logic! Scum! (the point is declan is clearly a 'noob')

declan did use terrible logic though. you admitted that yourself and you were tempted to vote him until you bussed don.

How is Don not scum Keyblade?

IMO he seems more like Just a bad townie

Don(scum) Bad town imo!

i don't know how kbw got this read, i'd like to know too, but people get things wrong. you called rev scum. you called twitch scum. you called me scum. you've been wrong this entire game.

The reason hes scum is because everyone is always bad/noob etc but he is always wrong.

With rev he left the out 'noob or scum'

with DJ it was a terribly weak defence which makes no sense at all. With Declan again; why wasn't he 'bad town'? it was a terribly opportunistic vote at a time to counterwagon to DJ.

i don't understand the bold. your only legit points in this post here are the last two sentences. other than that, kbw is as lazy as ztife, who is "likely town" in your eyes. funnily enough, you've been wrong a helluva lot on this game too - should we lynch you for that?

Vote Count 2.2

don_johnson: 2 (Remembrance, Superdeclan)
Limo: 1 (Bacde)
Remembrance: 1 (Ztife)
Superdeclan: 2 (Limo, don_johnson)

Not Voting: Deltabacon, Keybladewielder, Mac, Slandaar

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch and 5 votes to go to night.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-03-30 02:30:00)

PM me if you see errors.

The VC when he voted Declan.

Note: I had just unvoted DJ and was looking at Declan.

lol. so you were looking at declan too yet you jump on kbw for it? were you looking at the counterwagon for dj but decided against it? this entire case is horseshit.

KBW voted rev for being scum, who else did that? OH WAIT IT WAS SLANDAAR! kbw voted declan for bad logic, who else considered doing that? OH WAIT IT WAS SLANDAAR!

VOTE: slandaar

[Mac]

kbw's vote on declan does make sense though, you said yourself you thought declan was scum SK hunting. declan immediately started pushing dj to the max claiming sk. it was not good logic. it looked scummy. it merited his vote imo, it almost merited mine too.

obviously, the scenario has changed because don was scum. declan is now probably town. this does not explain the nightkill. the NK runs entirely in your favour because both rem and declan have been adamant you are town, to the point you even have a little triangle of trust which may or may not exist. the point is: you do not merit a position of trust in this game, you have remembrance and declan on your side hence why they are both alive today.

your point about bacde is also rubbish too considering his last post mentioning you said you didn't look too good.

you can also easily define noob town as scum too, it's not a case of noob town or noob scum.

you have no case against me other than finding imaginary links between me and every other scum player you accuse of voting me. and your reason for not voting me today is because you didn't die last night is absolutely terrible too.

and if you can point out where KBW used the noob or scum as a get out card, that would be great.

[Mac]

the ztife wagon is stupid. he's a replacement, no? lots of replacements half ass a game when they first get in.

Don might have been playing clever but I doubt it. This likely makes Ztife town unless DJ was defending his buddy while putting in a tell to disassociate himself which would be very very good but then you need to rely on someone picking it up so ehhhhhhhh probably just Ztife town from this alone.

Just FYI Mac.

really? i believe, if this is a disassociating tell, we have just picked it up, no?

[Mac]

aaah i see what you mean.

Your theory is possible. but now you're just changing your reads on me to try and sway me away. since day one, you have repeatedly said I'm scum and now I'm challenging you as scum we are suddenly both town?

[Mac]

actually, if you were scum slandaar, bacde would probably have been the perfect kill for you.

Limo, KBW and Ztife are all suspicious for lack of activity pretty much.

Declan, Remembrance are both pretty much confirmed town and on your side. Bacde was the only non-confirmed town in this triangle shiz.

You've been pressuring me since day one.

aaaand Delta is probably your scum buddy.

so slandaar, if me and you are town, who are the scum?

[Mac]

I think, if Slandaar is not scum, it's Limo. I didn't really have a solid read on you but that dj quote slandaar pointed out probably does make you town.

[Mac]

I think we should mass-claim? We stand a better chance of winning if everyones roles and results are known I think.

Just my opinion like.

[Mac]

I don't care which of KBW/Delta/Limo claim first in all honesty, they are the most suspicious at the moment so just claim as they read this would be the best option.

[Mac]

Whats <-> and why does it apply to me and ztife?

[Mac]

slandaar, I have some questions for you.

1) why did you find some shit reason to link me and revenus on day one? please explain.

2) why did you find some shit reason to link and don johnson on day two? please explain.

3) why were you trying to link me and KBW today? please explain.

[Mac]

declan - what did you make of my case on slandaar a page back?

I'm laughing at Ztife stating I'm null and then claiming I'm top of her suspicion lists.

I WANT CLAIMS!

Ztife, KBW, Delta and Limo. CLAIM. or get lynched. the rest of us will claim after you.

[Mac]

claim then. start a trend. we all claim today guys.

[Mac]

A claim! I like you KBW. Now answer all other questions aimed at you. Everyone else claim too

[Mac]

Alright.

KBW is possibly town I think. Claimed when asked, could've questioned it and refused like some of the others in this thread. Always a good sign imo. Limo, Ztife, Delta - your time is now.

[Mac]

Actually I shouldn't call him likely town for it but it's a good start. no doubt slandaar might use this to link us together again.

[Mac]

Good guys, this is progress! Ztife, Limo, YOUR TURN!

[Mac]

Hey Delta, while you are here, can you give your reads/opinions on Slandaar, Ztife, KBW and the case I made a few pages back?

Anyone else except Slandaar and Ztife can answer this too by the way (unless they wanna chat with each other).

[Mac]

Clearly I haven't, refresh my memory?

And thanks for those Delta.

I did say it was weak pretty much in the next post.

[Mac]

Okay, maybe you should be the one reading the thread. I said I didn't care who claimed out of the three people I found most suspicious.

I don't care which of KBW/Delta/Limo claim first in all honesty, they are the most suspicious at the moment so just claim as they read this would be the best option.

[Mac]

remind me the point of that again?

[Mac]

Are you talking about not caring who went first out of the three or who went first in general?

if it's the former, then no I didn't care, I want claims from my top three suspects. If it's the latter then that's clearly wrong.

[Mac]

so Ztife scumslipped all herself?

[Mac]

Limo, you claim too. Please.

[Mac]

Actually, you are right. He's probably town.

[Mac]

What semantic arguments are you referring too?

[Mac]

let's move on. You're town, I'm town, everyone's happy.

[Mac]

Look just trust me

KBW/Mac is most likely the scum

I didn't say I think you are town Mac just that a situation with very good explanation why I didn' t die exists. There are others; like scumMac was worried if they nk me then Mac is autolynched next day etc.

But, I do think you are town now, yes.

Can you explain this too please Slandaar when you get a minute?

I'm beginning to worry Slandaar is the best option for today's lynch

[Mac]

Right I'm actually fairly certain of Slandaar being scum at this point, I'm almost certain I know the other one too, even moreso than Slandaar.

Town

Remembrance
Limo
SuperDeclan
Mac

These are pretty much confirmed town. Yes, even me.

The Rest

Delta
Ztife
Slandaar
KBW

[Mac]

No there isn't. You were still pushing a KBW/Mac team by #949 where I pointed out your case was not the first on him.

I make my case for you in #952, you respond in #953 we interact for a while and in #966 you say I'm town.

So, basically, to summarise: I make a case against you, I'm town. This is after you pushing me with being every man and his dog being scum for 2 days. Your point of me being town is that you think the maf NK are trying to push us together - yet you don't make ANY realisation of this at the start of d3. Only when I present a case as to why you are scum.

[Mac]

Who do we lynch today if not you Slandaar?

Hint: it's not KBW.

[Mac]

Because we have confscum in our presence

[Mac]

VOTE: Ztife

[Mac]

Stop it, Remembrance. I'm fishing.

VOTE: Delta

[Mac]

Delta is the confscum by the way.

says he's fine with claiming, but doesn't want to go first. Hence, he waits for KBW to do it and then hides behind him in the next post. VT's don't do this.

Therefore

Lynch Delta today

Then we lynch Slandaar/Ztife after that.

[Mac]

Why would you care if you are a VT?

[Mac]

Beetle juice is responding when your name is mentioned, basically what you did on the last page.

TOWN, LISTEN UP.

Today, we lynch Delta. all will be clear soon, he is 100% scum no matter how much you listen to him screaming I suffer from confirmation bias. Unite town, we have this in the bag.

Before that (and the reason I haven't voted) - I want claims from Slandaar and Ztife. We also try and find out who Delta's partner is, and it's highly likely that it is one of them two or KBW.

[Mac]

Mass claim!! Delta this should answer all of your questions:

I'm gunsmith. You have a gun.

Town, start looking at Delta's posts please. I'm assuming Limo is town because Delta is going after him.

I will also answer any questions later on tonight.

[Mac]

Dj. Hence he wasn't SK but possible vig.

The proof is there.

DO NOT LYNCH DELTA YET

UNVOTE:

[Mac]

Obscure little role?

I'm effectively a cop. I'm in no danger of being lynched, I have no reason to make up an "obscure little role."

[Mac]

And that is the act of scum, caught redhanded

[Mac]

woah you almost convinced me I was actually scum with that argument.

[Mac]

Declan, who do you think the third scum could be?

[Mac]

Dj. Hence he wasn't SK but possible vig.

The proof is there.

DO NOT LYNCH DELTA YET

UNVOTE:

Happy to help.

[Mac]

You're only frustrated because I've backed you into a corner here. I even managed to ask your opinion your potential buddies, and you were none the wiser!

[Mac]

/Bacon has a strop mode over.

Given that everyone seems utterly convinced by Mac's (fake) claim and that there is no real counter to Mac's (scum's) claim, what happens now?

Explain the logic behind scumMac fake claiming to get VTDelta lynched plz

[Mac]

Yeah, the possibility of you flipping Gunsmith after claiming VT was so big, I just had to go for it. No, wait, I actually am the Gunsmith and you are scum. There would be no reason for scumMac to push for a 'townie' to get lynched when Slandaar, who has had a bit of an influence so far, has called me town. Your reasons are flawed. You know why? Because you are scum.

Who does everyone think Delta's partner is?

[Mac]

Gunsmith can find out if anyone has a gun, like you do.

Not sure what you're on about wrt putting words in your mouth, you said it, not me.

[Mac]

-1 townie, not every townie holds him in low regard, difficult lynch otherwise, then more obscure and theoretical reasons,

like the possibility of Gunsmith and getting lucky when I flip town

, etc. I won't entertain any more than the first three, for the obvious reasons of there being quite a differentiation between the reasonable and unreasonable reasons behind it. I don't know how you think as a player, so there's highly likely to be more complicated reasoning behind it.

[Mac]

At not one point did you state GunSmith from epicmafia, do you expect me to be able to read your mind and say "ah wait, he's talking about epicmafia!"

[Mac]

Oh shut up. How am I supposed to know you were referring to the EM role? And then you start screaming I should know and that I'm using it to fuel my fake claim.

[Mac]

I can only use my ability at night. And I don't need to vote you until we get a Ztife/Slandaar claim. But trust me, when I read your posts, all I see is bullshit.

Consider this the last interactions we have unless you out your buddy until I vote you.

[Mac]

Dj. Hence he wasn't SK but possible vig.

The proof is there.

DO NOT LYNCH DELTA YET

UNVOTE:

We don't need to vote untill massclaim has ended and talked about what it means

Calm and Tranquility is required untill our friend Ztife claims

And then everyone else can including Limo.

[Mac]

ok so after Delta I honestly think Slandaar is his scumbuddy.

Look at the first few pages of interactions between Slandaar and Rev, which delta takes rev's side. Slandaar COMPLETELY ignores alot of Delta's posts which are basically what Rev is saying. then I come in with a post (it's bad I know) and he jumps all over it and accuses me of being scum. Alot of their interactions seem a bit scum interacting with scum to me, quite forced.

Can someone else please analyse this and help me make sure I'm not suffering from confirmation bias.

[Mac]

I'm clearly referring to confirmation bias wrt slandaar. i'm totally clear-minded with you.

keep trying, though.

[Mac]

But trust me, when I read your posts, all I see is bullshit.

Consider this the last interactions we have unless you out your buddy until I vote you.

[Mac]

what are you blabbering on about now?

[Mac]

answer the question

[Mac]

^ Noted. Slandaar tried to keep an order. But Mac made everyone ignore it. Presumably he did this because he just wanted one (Delta) to claim and did not care how he got there. Similarly, I only wanted one player in particular to claim (Ztife), so I let you not claim.

Mac has left a trail that points out discrepancies and (noted them out) in his play that seem coherent with the claim he has used. So it's legit until Delta flips town (he won't).

Ding ding ding.

I told everyone I didn't care who posted. I was waiting for Delta.

[Mac]

Slandaar too.

When I find time, I'm going to analyse interactions between Delta and Ztife/Slandaar/KBW.

[Mac]

why you before Slandaar? slandaar is more scummier than you.

[Mac]

no. that's what you used to link me to don. you still somehow linked me to revenus and kbw for nothing.

you then come in and say "well, the NK makes it look like they want town to keep attacking town, therefore you are town" but you didn't make no indication you had thought of this until I raised the question of the NK suiting scumSlan. was that because it was made up under pressure?

[Mac]

I will re-read Slandaar. I promise. I want others to help because I feel like I could have some bias to being set on you being scum (ironically, like you were to me) but the signs for you being scum there.

that also doesn't explain how you linked me to rev nor KBW.

In fact, you linked me to rev by saying "we were on every wagon" or something to that effect, which is complete shit.

[Mac]

AGAINST SLANDAAR

[Mac]

slan is so town, mac. I think you're suffering from confirmation bias

you fancy doing a case? I'll do one for possible scum too.

[Mac]

Spoiler: wall

Hey Slandaar, feel like elaborating any? I can see where you're coming from with Suffer in that they didn't elaborate, but with Rev all I see is a vote for you and a peculiar but non-threatening little sentence.

He made a terrible random vote when he could have voted seriously.

He ignored the Russianov stuff completely when it is actually suspicious until you look at his posts on site; he obviously felt it isn't so why not say so?

this is the first and only time pretty much slandaar and delta interact here during the slandaar v rev debacle. oh wait, there are others but delta is continuously ignored by slandaar.

UNVOTE: TheTrollie

VOTE: Slandaar

Stop talking shit because of your self-proclaimed townhood. RVS is over. If you suspect Revenus, then put a vote down, rather than defending your rather insubstantial and incomplete argument. Not voting seriously? That's rich coming from someone who hasn't voted yet.

IGNORED

Well, no. You hadn't that was useful up until that point. 'Worst posters' could mean anything, and you failed to back it up until prompted. After your #33, you started to retrospectively have a pop at Rev for RVS'ing when there was players who haven't even posted, a clear sign that we were still knee-deep in it. Now we've been going back-and-forth and I'm happy that this will prompt others to get their arses in gear and move out of RVS, but on a more important note I'd love to know why you're having a go at Rev for RVS'ing when you've done it yourself, just without the voting part. Up until #33, you have no claim to being even nearly useful.

Ninja'd: I'm not seeing why you're so reluctant to put a vote down. There is no real reason for you not to, since the way you come across is that you're leaning scum a fair bit on Revenus.

IGNORED

In comes Mac to voice what he thinks of it.

Rev raises a good point about Slandaar's argument against him: seems very weak and hypocritical considering he's doing the same thing

Rev raises a good point about Slandaar's argument against him: seems very weak and hypocritical considering he's doing the same thing

This is probably scum btw

It is horrendus parrotting on something which is clearly not right in the first place.

SCUM!!!!!

and hey, that stuck for the rest of the game. until now.

I'm concerned about Don there, he looks very confrontational, but I'm not seeing why seemingly experienced scum would try to misrepresent a common newbie concern, so I'll be giving that the benefit of the doubt for now. Slandaar and Rev, I agree, look quite bad, but I'm still a hair more inclined towards Slandaar being scum than Rev at this stage. I'm not actually sure why. Slandaar raises illegitimate concerns and hypocritically accuses Rev of them, but Rev goes all Rambo on the defensive.

hey, here's delta again.

IGNORED

Slandaar's case on Rev makes very, very little sense yet he's pushing it very hard. Slandaar, thoughts on others maybe?

IGNORED

In case it isn't obvious Mac/Rev are on every wagon except the twitch one

No problem for solving the game town.

piss poor excuse for calling me and rev a team like. and even when it clearly fails when rev flips town, slandaar still votes me at the start of day two.

russianov: 3 (Mac, Twitch da Woof, Bacde)

There is your buddy mac voting Russian

I don't remember a moz wagon

I said except twitch

That was quite the desperate response.

what a load of shit. i started that wagon, i didn't even hop on it for a start. so your judgement was flawed and quite desperate. you also ignored when I pointed out neither of us we voting bacde.

and just for good measure:

Spoiler: wall

The single most glaring thing I have realised over the last few pages is that I find Remembrance unbearably annoying, which kind of clouds my read on him. I... think he could be town but his posts just get at me enough to slide him into the null pile whenever I think about it.

]I'm convinced that one of Slandaar and Rev are scum. Utterly convinced.

They've both made well, shite arguments all game, and D1 has pretty much revolved around them, there's been Slandaar v Rev interspersed with little bouts of 'The World v Ztife' (Still game for that if anyone feels like sheeping me) and 'Bacde v Twitch' (Less convinced on a twitch lynch now). The thing is, they both have shining moments. Slandaar completely destroyed my argument against him about half a game ago, and Rev has just made a great post explaining himself, with what looks like an involuntary AtE, and so I'm utterly lost when it comes to trying to decide between the two.

Keybladewielder looks like a mad bastard. Still townreading him from YOLO's slot, but wow, you need to chill out and stop denying us your reads because of what one person said.

---

Oh, and sorry for my inactivity - I went to a 1-night houseparty that turned into a 3-day housepartaaaaay.

Ninja'd: Oh, Rev... all that shine you gained in #595... Fucking hell.

UNVOTE: Ztife

VOTE: Rev

That's L-1. If Rev flips Town,

I'll want Slandaar, Ztife.

@Mod:

Only took us 23 pages to get clear with this. VOTE: Rev - don't worry, I'm prepared for the backlash of "LOLBUS" from

Slandaar - I was null on. My early game confirmation bias on him, whilst he was tunnelling on Revenus he shot down with quite legitimate arguments, but that said your case does shake my confidence in my narrowing of the potential mafiosos down to Ztife/KBW/Limo - your case is solid and quite persuasive, but I believe there to be more certain lynch opportunities today, specificically one of Ztife/Limo.

lol null? where's your consistency? obvious scum team is obvious. it look like day one distancing. i'm pretty sure this isn't even confirmation bias. please provide a town case other than "i'm conf town guys!"

[Mac]

VOTE: Delta

[Mac]

why not vote confscum delta and we can get ztife tomorrow? or i can investigate tonight?

assuming there is some sort of protection in the game on me tonight.

[Mac]

declan, why would I make up a role if I were scum (and slandaar has stopped pushing me as scum) to take out VTdelta? it makes no sense. I am the gunsmith.

[Mac]

inb4 delta "mac is lying!!!! CONFIRMATION BIAS!!!!"

[Mac]

confirmation bias is what I'm having with slandaar.

not with you.

[Mac]

You know, delta's not going to give much away if he knows his death is impending.

But I will say he made a case against Limo with his first post: Limo is likely town.

[Mac]

I think we shoukd leave claiming 'til tomorrow.

We can lynch Delta, protect me and then have another shot at fishing out the last scum.

[Mac]

stop claiming and lynch please.

[Mac]

Hmmm I do get the feeling you are town now. I read back to the dj wagon where Rem points out he's PR fishing. then we all vote KBW (ironically, I started that and it could've been seen as a counterwagon from me lol) but yeah, you brought it back to dj when you could've joined kbw wagon. You might be town.

Scum is Delta & KBW/Ztife.

Lynch Delta.

Protection on me, I look at one

Lynch whichever comes back as guilty.

[Mac]

VOTE: KBW

TOWN WINS!!!

[Mac]

He could only really be vig, PGO or Cop really

[Mac]

Bacde

Deltabacon*

don_johnson

Limo**

Mac**

mozamis
Revenus
russianov** Superdeclan

Slandaar
Suffer*** Remembrance

TheTrollie* YOLO** Keybladewielder*

Twitch da Woof

ztife **

This is how it looks. Was wondering the possibility of four mafia but I don't think it's possible.

Brilliant from Declan if the above is true. ^

[Mac]

Limo, did anyone visit me last night?

[Mac]

As soon as Remembrance claimed bog, I knew i'd be alright for any guilties I got to be honest. Didn't expect a PGO or Cop, but in fairness Delta, once you claimed VT there was nothing you could do.

Also: Slandaar I was convinced you were scum, at the last moment I decided to inv. KBW. You suffer from terrible confirmation bias, dude