Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[BP]

That was a weird comment.

VOTE: Future

[BP]

I liked it the only two previous times I've been town, even tho when I got started I was eager to be mafia. Too stressful to be one, tho.
My deepest desire is to be in a Cult.
Fav roles are informative ones. I liked it a lot when I played Jack-of-all-trades cos it's not bound to the same role all the time.

[BP]

I personally don't reply to a stupid question.

You goon, Red Dragon?

[BP]

Vote: PeregrineV

Voted for two people in one post only! No one wants blood like a scum!!

[BP]

Oh, I thought we were on RVS. Sorry.

VOTE: NO LYNCH

[BP]

Alright, I seem to have to explain myself at the moment. I really thought you'd see my posts as they were: RVS taunts. That's why I voted for random people, for random reasons. Just like everyone else.

Also, I voted no lynch because I don't believe in Day 1 lynches. Don't make much sense to me. I'm more much more keen on analyzing Night 1's kill choice that trying to see through people's reasons and motives behind every vote on Day 1, which are mostly based on RVS reactions and bandwagoning, so...

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

[BP]

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

This is a weird sentence.

If you believe that D1 lynches are bad and explained why, what's the need of this last statement? It's a little preemptive, like you don't really believe in it yourself and know others will pounce on you for it.

Fair enough. I just didn't like his assumption that because I voted no lynch I'm new to the game. That's all. x)

[BP]

Alright, I seem to have to explain myself at the moment. I really thought you'd see my posts as they were: RVS taunts. That's why I voted for random people, for random reasons. Just like everyone else.

Also, I voted no lynch because I don't believe in Day 1 lynches. Don't make much sense to me. I'm more much more keen on analyzing Night 1's kill choice that trying to see through people's reasons and motives behind every vote on Day 1, which are mostly based on RVS reactions and bandwagoning, so...

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

How is this not the scummiest thing you've ever heard? A mislynch on d1 is WAY better than a NL because at least that gives information (ie who was on the bw, whose loyalties are where, etc.)! Also, we actually have a chance of lynching mafia d1 WHICH IS THE POINT OF THE GAME!!! We need to lynch this now!

Firstly, LOL.

Are you serious Baezu? RVS-based lynch, even if you lynch a mafia, which would be super-awesome, won't give you any granted info, if any, on loyalties and whatnot. It's called RANDOM vote stage, and I do apologize that I do not believe in random-based lynchings.

We have 20 days - TWENTY - until the deadline. That's almost 3 weeks. Why are you so eager to lynch me, so early in the game, if your point of view regarding the pros of RVS is the acquisition of info? Lynching me now would prevent you from acquiring more info regarding those loyalties that you mention and other stuffs. A mislynch on d1 is NOT better, IN MY OPINION, because I much rather, as I said, analyze the kill's info based on day behaviour that analyzing day behaviour that's ultimately based on sheer randomness, because that way we'll have one dead Townie rather than two. And that's always preferrable.

Now I'm gonna say this again, in case I wasn't clear. This is how I see this game, and this is what I think to be the best strategy. It's not a play like Grimgroove just postulated. I believe in Day 1 no-lynch, because of what I explained above.

Now, I'm reeeaaaallly keen on hearing from you again, Baezu, to answer these simple questions:
- If you want reactions to see the smoke comin' out of the scumhole, why lynch me right away? Why not wait a little longer, say two weeks?
- Do you think mafia loyalties would be made explicit by them in day 1 in such a way as to tell us who's who? If not, do you still think a mislynch is better that a no-lynch?

[BP]

First of all, thanks. Really. That *was* nice. However, I understand all that. I do. That's all relative, tho, given that you're taking it as granted that the info from N1 would be completely useless, which I don't think to be the case. Ever. After the reactions from the RVS it is infinitely better (IMO, again) to analyze the info from the N1 kill choice than to rather lynch randomly on Day 1. Cuz that's what we'll be doing, unless Baezu is the most obvious scummyman on the website, and his scummates are not smarter than him. As I've said, I've played scum a couple o'times and L1 is most often a mislynch that leads nowhere, because scummies will know how to cover it up by killing off the right player. See what I mean?

Day 1 -> Mislynch :: Night 1 -> Scummies will cover it up pretty well given the Day 1 BW's and whatnot, which leads to Day 2 -> Mislynch again, which leads to Night 2 -> ANOTHER dead townie. HOPEFULLY, no important informative PR's will be killed and they'll have enough tells to start pointing fingers at actual scumpeople in a way that puts the rest of the Townies behind the bandwagon.

This is how things mostly went off-site. I'm not very sure about this one in specific, but I rather not play with these odds. Ofc, what's above is not written in stone, but odds point to that. No lynch on Day 1 is thus better not only because it obviously guarantees no mislynch, and cleans up the info from Night 1 kill choice info.

ANYWAYS, this is the reasoning behind my no-lynch theory. You're all welcome to disagree.

Also, I don't necessarily play this way. I still want to wait for a few days and see what the player's are all about. If I find a good-enough scum-scented playa, I'll vote to lynch him no problem.

[BP]

What is, is I WOULD like to know the other player's response to these questions that arose. Yes?

Where you at, homies?

[BP]

I personally think daytime activity (votes, posts, hammers, ...) are much easier to analyse than night kill-decisions.

I disagree wholeheartedly. During the night, the mafia have to act together. They choose as a team which player's interactions get analyzed. If someone is fingering the entire mafia team, they may leave them alive over the player that has fingered all civs to try and get mislynches. They may do the opposite for supreme WIFOM. During the day, mafia can deliberately not interact or choose to interact in certain ways to deceive. If a mafia gets pegged, then they can dig to keep suspicion away from any teammates. A night kill has no deception; that player is killed. No matter what, that player is getting analyzed the next day, and the lynch that follows generally reveals why mafia made that night hit.

Thank you.

Plus, if you don't lynch Day 1, what will be analyzed is why mafia killed that specific type of player, and what types of players would target those ones.

[BP]

easy, look how bp is squirming. You don't get that from asking, "what uis your favorite role" Why? Because that question can simply be answered: "town, doc"

Care to make this squirming a bit more specific?

[BP]

As I said, you're all welcome to disagree. I stand my ground: until I see something really telling, I'll vote no-lynch. It won't prevent you from lynching someone either way.

[BP]

- If you want reactions to see the smoke comin' out of the scumhole, why lynch me right away? Why not wait a little longer, say two weeks?
- Do you think mafia loyalties would be made explicit by them in day 1 in such a way as to tell us who's who? If not, do you still think a mislynch is better that a no-lynch?

1. Initially it was an RVS but the longer it's progressed the more I'm convinced my hunch was right. Why would we need to wait to lynch you? You're being overly defensive, you're not scumhunting and you're not really helping town. I don't see any problem with lynching you early.

I also have no problems with lynching early, if I'm really convinced the to-be-lynched is really scum; I'm just saying you're contradicting yourself, by wanting to analyze possible scum tells and then wanting to lynch NOW. Strikes me as odd. I don't think there's anything more anti-town than a hurried lynching, like the one you talked about.

I'm even more sure of my initial assessment: BP/GRIMGROOVE = scum team!!!

I obviously don't know if Grimgroove is scum or not, but you sure are a hellova player if you already have 2 scums there, on page 3 and barely two days of posting.

You're being overly defensive, you're not scumhunting and you're not really helping town. I don't see any problem with lynching you early.

2. I stand by my belief that a ML is better than a NL regardless of how long it's been like I said before bc of bw, convos, etc.

Your first statement quoted above is wrong: I'm not telling who I think may be scum or not because a) it's too early to have proper scum tells, I think, and b) My way of helping town, as I see it, is to prevent a mislynch: I don't think there's anything more telling than the reactions to my no lynch post: it combines the best of slendaar's view of the game (in which people's perceptions of game mechanics tell some things about them as players), and the best of RVS (in which taunting people may cause them to smoke out of their scum holes).

I have my FoS on you, obviously, and I'm not sure about Red Dragon too. Future is starting to get my attention as well. Those are my most intuitive possible scum-tells.

[BP]

Intuition, son, I can't exactly put a finger on it. Your example is the best one for me to try to explain.

It's your eagerness. The quickness of your judgement makes me feel uneasy, not only because it's me, but because it's too quick and to broad - you already targetted two people. It's like telling the town to LYNCH, LYNCH, LYNCH!, without any very palpable proof, and - I know, again, but - too early on! That's the very definition of the blind lynching I was mentioning earlier.

One thing that just popped up while I was rereading the posts... Just because someone defends someone you think is scum doesn't make them scum as well. You read people too superficially, like "A is probably scum. If B protects A, then B is also scum!" This implies that your snap judgement is correct, and also that only scum will protect scum, as if a) other townies know who scum is or isn't, or b) townies wouldn't protect anyone they think are being attacked by flawed logic out of sheer fear of repercution, and only attack each other.

My FoS is on you man. You're my one and only so far.

[BP]

All right folks, sorry about the long non-post. Not all days are boring at work. x)

OK, first and foremost, props to Grimgroove there for his pretty darn good case against Future. It actually puts his post 8 under a new light. I didn't give it much thought at first, but... Maybe it's been a horrible first decoy.

I'm not gonna try and defend myself anymore. Everything's been said, I reckon, the logic to my no-lynch theory has been explained too often. I just wanna say that a no-lynch won't obviously occur, so don't be surprised if further ahead I vote for a lynch. I just think that at the time, we didn't have enough juice to get it started. And we do now.

So it appears that the general conclusions we've come to is that Future, thegooner and meself are the one with the most fingers pointed at. Given how dispersed are the actual votes (which I was surprised to see), I'm gonna start bandwagoning to put them under pressure. Future's taking his time to reply, so I'll just

VOTE: Future

.

Also, I would like to draw attention to Darthe, the man who complains about slow posting, but so far has only posted posts #4, 31, 43, 68, and 107. No discussion, kept himself to a minimum and does absolutely nothing to improve the topic of conversation. The fact that he complains about how slow the discussion is going would indicate that he regularly checks the thread, and either he doesn't find anything to comment on, which I find strange, or he doesn't want to.

So far this is what I have. I'm going to lunch now. More later today.

[BP]

Dragon you still have not enlightened me as to what the random votes in this game achieved.

you are seeing it right now.

Discussion. Gives you more than talking about what the weather is outside or what D&D PC you like to play.

Actually, my No-Lynch post created most of the discussion. RVS achieved nothing until then. Unless Future actually turns out to be scum.

[BP]

Alright, I seem to have to explain myself at the moment. I really thought you'd see my posts as they were: RVS taunts. That's why I voted for random people, for random reasons. Just like everyone else.

Also, I voted no lynch because I don't believe in Day 1 lynches. Don't make much sense to me. I'm more much more keen on analyzing Night 1's kill choice that trying to see through people's reasons and motives behind every vote on Day 1, which are mostly based on RVS reactions and bandwagoning, so...

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

How is this not the scummiest thing you've ever heard? A mislynch on d1 is WAY better than a NL because at least that gives information (ie who was on the bw, whose loyalties are where, etc.)! Also, we actually have a chance of lynching mafia d1 WHICH IS THE POINT OF THE GAME!!! We need to lynch this now!

Yeah. What the fudge was that Future!? Care to explain?

[BP]

Wait. That was wrong. I was building a case there until I saw that weird-ass post.

[BP]

All right. I was analyzing Baezu's posts. There's something off about him, and I'm trying to put my finger on it.

Gut feeling from the way he answered the question:

Innocent Child. It makes things less complicated.

Also, this comment came with BP's second vote (he had previously rvs'd future) so if his logic applies to peregrine he is just as blood thirsty:

Voted for two people in one post only! No one wants blood like a scum!!

Again, gut feeling but I really didn't like any of his posts on p1

Firstly, his whole BP/Grimgroove theory is based on his gut feeling only. So far, only this post had an excuse of an explanation for his gut feeling-based theory, and only in regards to me, not Grimgroove. Everything else was shaky foundations for that theory: see posts #74 and #85 specifically.


But then, his eagerness is the thing that throws me off the most, because I'm still not sure whether it's genuine town behaviour, or scum attempts at lynching.

We need to lynch this now!

- If you want reactions to see the smoke comin' out of the scumhole, why lynch me right away? Why not wait a little longer, say two weeks?

1. Initially it was an RVS but the longer it's progressed the more I'm convinced my hunch was right. Why would we need to wait to lynch you? You're being overly defensive, you're not scumhunting and you're not really helping town. I don't see any problem with lynching you early.

His next sentence is:

2. I stand by my belief that a ML is better than a NL regardless of how long it's been like I said before bc of bw, convos, etc.

Also throwing me off. No problem w/ early lynching (which was more based on gut feeling that anything else), but says that ML is good because of bandwagon- and convo-drawn info. If you don't give it enough time for those BW to arise, and buddies to pair themselves up, then no point in ML.

Then he shifts to Future for no apparent reason:
Grimgroove posts from #87 until #92 in a row. This is when future-as-scum theory is presented. Then some posts about game theory again, RedDragon's case on me, and general chitchat. Post #100 is Baezu's

I'll have more to say about future once I hear his response to your questions. On the surface I don't feel like the evidence is undeniable - it's more "gut"ly. I'll have to hear more in order to make up my mind.

and then no one but PelegrinV and me, inthis post, posts ANYTHING about Future that isn't just a "let's wait to hear from him". Future himself, as Baezu was waiting him to, didn't post at all. Right before Future's mod-edited post (WTF), Baezu tells us that he is

starting to agree with people on the future case. Still think BP is scummier so I'm keeping my vote on him for now. I would be willing to hammer future if it comes to that.

FoS future

Again, no one had said anything about that. But Baezu can't wait to get to the lynch. He is eager, people, to lynch someone, and I don't know if he's a townie in desperate need for a scum lynch or scum wanting to lynch an innocent.

[BP]

FUCK I REFERRED TO AN ONGOING GAME BUT THE GIST OF IT WAS THAT I'M FUCKING TOWN BECAUSE I'VE BEEN CALLED SCUMMY FOR BEING TOO MUCH OF AN ASSHOLE AND I DECIDED TO NOT BE AN ASSHOLE HERE

Caps-level desperation. Not a good sign on your part either Future.

It would be immensely funny, I was thinking, if we're all townies and ztife and kattaze were the scum ones. x)

[BP]

BTW, my possible town / guilty list:

TOWN: Slandaar, Grimgroove
GUILTY: Darthe, Future, Baezu

These ones haven't posted in a way as to give me a read: Elyse, chernobylcitybus, Peregrine V and thegooner.

Also: torn about Red Dragon.

[BP]

Mod, sorry to say, your vote count doesn't seem to be including my vote on Future

Fixed.

[BP]

I'm beginning to shift on the whole

Baezu

thing. I am absolutely not sure whether she's town or guilty.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

1. Just like

Elyse

said, caps-claims of innocence don't quite add up to the general play of the game. But they don't ring to me as scum; quite on the contrary, it comes to confirm my theory that Baezu may very well an innocent newbie. Until...
2. She moves her vote to the

future

pro's-driven wagon even tho she just explained why she was reluctant to move her vote. She doesn't appear very convinced that

Future's

scum, but she'll join the town wagon anyways. Scum wagons for no reason other than to follow town.

I was hoping for a post that could clear up her alignment, but she posted this:

@Elyse I just feel like scum will want to nk me because I've been causing a lot of ripples in the water and making accusations. Creating controversy is usually something scum wants to quiet. I know it may be early to use caps, but I wanted to emphasize the fact that I am indeed town. I'm not really worried about a lynch but I don't think people have to wait until they're at L-1 to make a case for their alignment. I want it to be clear to everyone that their votes need to be elsewhere. The fact that future's vote is on me is prob indicative that he is indeed scum. I'm not going to apologize for being eager in this game. It's because I know I'm town and I'm doing my best to ensure that votes go where they need to go.

She clearly doesn't know how mafia operates. Creating controversy is precisely what scum wants, in order to confuse town and get a mislynch. (I think. You guys got me a bit insecure about my mafia theory. x) ) I think

Baezu

is just a newbie. I have no idea about her alignment until we see a lynch and I see who she's been trying to kill oh-so-eagerly.

[BP]

Darthe

. Post something usable, otherwise I'm just gonna assume you're lurking and lynch you because if you're not scum in hiding you're just not being helpful.

Future

. If you don't reply soon I'm gonna start asking people to lynch your ass, cuz my vote's already there.

[BP]

Baezu

@ slandaar you didn't answer mine either. I didn't vote for gooner because I felt the case against future was stronger.

According to that logic, your vote should still be on me. Or do you not think I'm the scummiest anymore? Because if not, I would like to hear you say why Future's is stronger than theGooner's.

[BP]

FINALLY SOMETHING TO START THE FUDGING GAME

Day flips are as important as night flips. The conversations and bandwagons and shifts are what makes the dynamics of a lynch informative. If we decide on an NL scums can do whatever they want now and confuse town even more, there's no real incentive in trying to take any action or push any wagon.

Town makes mistakes and have mislynches. Its all part of the game. Towns are confident of lynches and scum hunting. Scums will NEVER be confident of a lynch, simply because mislynching makes them look scummy. Which is pretty much the exact "theory" you are talking about. Unless its a MYLO vs LYLO situation or something, in general NL is basically taking away town's main power.

So far this is the best explanation I've read.

I'm not gonna try and defend myself anymore. Everything's been said, I reckon, the logic to my no-lynch theory has been explained too often. I just wanna say that a no-lynch won't obviously occur, so don't be surprised if further ahead I vote for a lynch. I just think that at the time, we didn't have enough juice to get it started. And we do now.

Also, what?
If you're town why wouldn't you want to tell us more about what is going on in your mind?¹ Why not share with us why an NL would benefit us?¹ Why suggest and "defend" yourself about the benefits of an NL, then give up halfway and tell us you will vote for a lynch?² How would you explain that your action's aren't scum motivated?³ What makes you think that you can get information now to be confident enough to lynch "scum"?⁴ What happened to looking at N1 kill and starting your scum hunting from there?⁴ What changed from #30 to #112?⁵

You've read the thread almost in a row. Weren't you tired of reading my same things over and over again? I thought I had explained myself loads of times, and I didn't need to fill the thread with junk even more. Now, to answer your questions:

1. I did. Multiple times. RedDragon and Slendaar kinda broke it down and it did make some sense. Your post, as I've said, was the one that kinda really got to me.
2. No one but part of thegooner agreed w/ me. No point in waving the flag around if no one's gonna come and join you. I said on post 56 I said this is not necessarily the way I roll, but you seem to know that give your question 4.
3. I gave valid reasoning, however superficial, that explains *how* I wanted to help town. It may have been kinda misguided, tho, I will admit to that much.
4. I only said I would be OK to lynch someone on post 157, which is veeery recent. My vote on Future, on post 122, is quite explained there. You can find there the info that I voted Future to get a reaction from him, rather than an actual lynch.
5. Quite frankly, everything. My NL vote got loads of reactions and kinda got the game going, I think. Plus, Grimgroove's post on Future is quite the case, and Darthe's lurking is also something that worries me. But if you think that between page 2 and 7 nothing deserved of a change has happened, well then... give the thread another read.

Also, could you name your top 2 town and scum for us?

Yes I can.

BTW, my possible town / guilty list:

TOWN: Slandaar, Grimgroove
GUILTY: Darthe, Future, Baezu

These ones haven't posted in a way as to give me a read: Elyse, chernobylcitybus, Peregrine V and thegooner.

Also: torn about Red Dragon.

You can actually take out Baezu. As I said, I have no specific alignment read off of her ATM.

[BP]

Post 49. Never did I say I voted NL for other reason other than I though that was the way to go.

Anywho. Off to bed. Day off tomorra. I sincerely hope that during the next day things will develop. Cheerio!

[BP]

@Grim
Ok, I see. I admit I haven't take much of a closer look at alot of posts yet, but atm the only thing that interest me is BP.
What do you think of his hesitation then? It was not so much of an NL, but more of the lack of explaination for his own push and then the wavering opinions about it.

@PeregrineV
Please explain your BP town read.

Gonna be catching up on this future wagon now.

This only explains what I've said earlier. You need to give the thread another read. Not a look-see; an actual read.

Extremely tired. More tomorrow.

[BP]

Well, I just want to prompt anyone from hammering Future. It's unwise to do so this early.

[BP]

I voted for a reason. Future still hasn't spoken for himself. I want to hear from him before unvoting or going for a lynch.

[BP]

What is your read on Future, Red Dragon
And what about you Ztife? How do you feel about the wagon behind his name and the people on it?

I mean, he isn't the worst d1 lynch. But I think bp is miles better.

Y U focus on me so much?

[BP]

Y U focus on me so much?

"WHY ME???????" Because you are scum and no one seems to have taken note of it yet.

I'm serious tho. That's not it at all. Other than the No Lynch, which for you is apparently inherently equal to scum, what else tells you I'm scum?

[BP]

I read all your posts, and you present two reasons to think I'm scummy:

1. I argued for No Lynch - posts 60, 66, then 94and 163are reinforcements of what he's said on the other 2;
2. I changed my stance to a voting one - post 203.

Yes, I had read all your posts, and I've just re-read them, and other than my theory about NL, you present no other reason to think I'm scum. Other than these, there are some posts about game theory in general and about Darthe. Obviously, I didn't count the RVS.

Are you protecting Future?

[BP]

May I also say that both reasons don't make sense together? If you think NL is bad and give me a lesson about it, how is changing to a voting stance (which is not the same to a lynching stance) scummy as well? I would either stick to my NL theory, which you think to be bullcrap, and be labelled as scummy, or I would change it following you guy's advice, and that would be scummy cuz I'd be following Town. How does one escape from that? So actually, you have one reason to think I'm scum, one that I've explained my outlook on time and again. The other one is just a no-escape trap. This obviously has an implication, otherwise this post would be just dumb: you seem to act on a pre-made stance on me. I was the first player seriously under scrutiny here, and you adhered to that scrutiny rather quickly. You have a very bad reason to think I'm scum, but you are still on that, even if we've had stronger scumreads from elsewhere, which you do believe we do: even you say Darthe stinks with his whole hammering business.

That's just weird.

[BP]

Well, in that case...

Unvote

[BP]

Normally I don't think inactivity says something about alignment (luckily, if not pretty much all of you would be scum), but in this case I can't help but feel Future's sudden absence is scummy. He never adressed the issues laid before him, and left off in a hurried fury.
I realize it's rarely a good idea to lynch without a claim, but I don't think even a claim would convince me in this case, and I don't feel like sitting here idly for something tohappen. This game desperately needs a CPR shock in its current state, half of the playing field doesn't give a shit about what goes on here, and don't evenr ead half of people's posts.
I think a lynch on Future might at least provide some clearer basis for discussion, and will get use one lynched scum as an added bonus.
Hammertime!

Now that the unvote is done, I honestly agree w/ Grim on the whole inactivity thing. People don't post nearly as often as expected. Be that as it may, lynching because the game is stalled is silly, at best! We must lynch scum, and even tho Future's absence is scummy at the very least, to hurry-lynch him because the game is kinda stalled is NOT the way to go. Grim's one of the towniest reads I have, but this that he suggested is not proper town behavior. If Future turns out to be innocent... It's bad for everyone, even if we lose a player that wasn't as active as he should be.

[BP]

As I said, Grim, I completely understand. I constantly check the thread for more to play with, but it seems we're going around in circles with all the game theory..

I unvoted because I think that premature lynching is ever good for town. That's not all, ofc. I want to hear from Red Dragon and

future

, specifically, first, and then I'll see what to do. I do sympathize with your stance. But that's just not the way I roll.

[BP]

I don't mind lynching Future. I'm just waiting for him to ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHING before lynching the guy. Claiming would be a good stance.

[BP]

You're uncomfortable with your townread's vote putting someone you think is scum at L-1?

Future has just been prodded, I'd like to hear what he says before someone hammers, we can wait a while.

Sir Chernobylcitybus has it correct.

Let's just hammer him and see instead of all this WIFOM. And if I survive the nk we can talk about who's actually scummy tomorrow.

Stop being so eager, Baezu!! Why not wait for a one or two days to see if either Future comes 'round or if he's replaced. It would be idiotic to lynch someone's who's in the process of being replaced.

[BP]

Sorry guys, work has been nuts. Will post again later today, when I get home, after I have a look at what's been said so far since the site wen brzrk.

Apologies.