Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[DCLXVI]

/confirm

do I have really bad memory or is the only person here that I've played with before Rob13?

[DCLXVI]

vote:cooldog

cause you're a dog.

I second the request for gorkat to explain, cause I'm not seeing whatever he claims to be seeing.

[DCLXVI]

Maybe they had something to go on?

And what would that be? Unless they are masons together I can't see how gorkcat would know radiant is town.

@TMT you are an alt, don't deny it.

[DCLXVI]

Really, well, then that's just a coincidence then...

On another note, I am perfectly fine with gorckat's first post.

[DCLXVI]

Your 2, 3 and 4 go from wanting more info, not seeing why I make the statement and then being totes fine with my statement.

those descriptions aren't quite accurate

2 is correct, I didn't get it at first and wanted more info
3 is not correct, I stated that I didn't see a reason for you to know that radiant was town, NOT that I didn't see a reason for you to make a post. At this point I did think your post made sense, but I forgot to mention it so I brought it up in my next post.
4. Correct, I am totes fine with your statement, even though I don't see any way for you to know radiant was town.

[DCLXVI]

@Rob, do you find TMT scummy?

----

Votecount #2:
Broseidon - RadiantCowbells, jmo16mla
TMTOLBTWNTOF - BROseidon, Does Bo Know
CooLDoG - gorckat
DLCXVI - TMTOLBTWNTOF, DCLXVI
jmo16mla - Rob13

Not voting - ThAdmiral, CooLDoG, guru guru, nhammen, Yates

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to kick them upstairs!

Deadline is May 29th.

[DCLXVI]

So then this is how it would have played out.

TMT did something you think is scummy.
JMO ignored him and therefor is scummier?

I didn't say anything about TMT, does that mean I'm scum as well?

If JMO's scuminess is determined by TMT being scum (after all if TMT isn't scum, then ignoring him doesn't look nearly as bad) then shouldn't your vote by on TMT?

[DCLXVI]

vote:TMT

I think Rob's point about him is accurate.

[DCLXVI]

I literally spent 5 minutes re-reading the game several times, I'm not seeing what you are seeing in regards to JMO, maybe you could try explaining it in a way that isn't a massive glob of text.

[DCLXVI]

Like nhammen, DCL answering what changed between 'wanting more info' and 'getting it' (but still not seeing why I say it).

Well, at first I didn't get what you were doing so I asked for more info, then when I actually thought about it it made sense.

Its perfectly logical to both see why you did it, and not to see a reason for you to know that radiant is town. Let me explain.

Basically, I think your post was an effective way of trying to get us out of RVS which is town motivated. I don't believe you had any reason to call radiant town though. You just chose the first player to vote.

So yeah, I can get your motive but not see a reason for you to know radiant is town.

DCLXVI what is your opinion of Rob?

Not sure yet, I've only seen him as town, not scum. I will say that a TMT scum flip would look really bad for him though.

@rob, if you write a glob of text with poor formatting, don't try and act surprised that someone misinterprets your case.

[DCLXVI]

Well, that's the truth...

[DCLXVI]

@rob are you having any lingering anger issues toward me cause of m140

[DCLXVI]

Is there some particular strategic advantage you get from withholding useful logical information from the towN?

I didn't want to put words into gorckat's mouth. I would rather have heard his reasons for his actions before talking about them.

[DCLXVI]

I like how you're subtly pushing this TMT lynch without getting behind it.

vote:TMT

I think Rob's point about him is accurate.

I am behind a TMT lynch, please don't misrep me.

[DCLXVI]

I'm not liking how radiant is so eager to see me lynched and so lacking in his fact checking not to notice were my vote is.

[DCLXVI]

L-1.... This is really stupid... While I would normally wait for an intent to hammer before claiming
.. all this unwarranted animosity makes me uneasy.

I am a mason

I'm very certain there is a significant amount of scum on my wagon. I will look at it more closely when I have time to say who.

[DCLXVI]

That was one part of the breadcrumbing I was doing before I got ran up.

[DCLXVI]

So... thoughts on my wagon.

Gorckat is town for reasons already given.

Radiant is town... And I don't particularly want to say why.

TMT is scum. He has parked his vote on me while not really calling me scum. Just look at his last few posts quoting while phone posting is hard.

Admiral is town. He is technically correct with his reason for voting me but the reason I left out the possibly of gorckat knowing radiant was town cause he was scum was because at that point I already had gorckat as a town read.

Rob is omgusing me cause of that glob of text comment. He makes sense as a tmt partner if tmt is scum.

Cool dog is scum. I'm not liking both his eagerness to see day 1 end so early and his leaving his boy on me after my claim.

I do have thoughts on people off my wagon. But phone posting is a pain in the ass so I'm done for now.

[DCLXVI]

Because you guys would have to be retarded to quick lynch a main claim.

[DCLXVI]

Really though there isn't any reason for me to be at l-1. There was nothing wrong with my posting about gorkcat and my accidental misstep of your case was actually accidental.

[DCLXVI]

Mason is a "main" claim? Since when? Masons don't do anything. Docs, cops, vigs, bps, ect. actually do something and are "main" claims. I'd lynch a scummy mason any day of the fucking week.

Main should have been mason I'm phone posting and spell check is not mafia friendly.

[DCLXVI]

So @cool dog of course I'm masons with gorkcat.. cause it makes perfect sense for my mason buddy to try to get me lynched.

Also... I had planned on doing more breadcrumbing as the day progressed. That post was breadcrumbing because I was bringing up masons.

[DCLXVI]

@cooldog, the difference between you and admiral is that you still are eager for the day to end quickly after my claim. oh, and go read your first real post and follow it...I'm going to be off now till 9pm. Got a party and work to do,

[DCLXVI]

Gorckat isNOT my mason buddy and I have NEVER hinted at him being so.

Got to love how cool dog is both assuming gorckat is a mason with me and calling for my lynch.

[DCLXVI]

Out for real now.

[DCLXVI]

.I'm going to be off now till 9pm. Got a party and work to do,

Someone didn't show up for their shift so I had to work till midnight, I'm tired and will respond to stuff that needs responding to tomorrow afternoon.

[DCLXVI]

radiant wants someone to hammer me but she wants an easy out so she isn't responsible for the lynch. that is scummy as hell.

[DCLXVI]

Before I get into analyzing some of the reactions (both good and bad) to my claim. I want to say a few things:

1. I have one mason buddy
2. For obvious reasons that mason buddy was NOT one of the people voting me.
3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

@cooldog, your bullshit post claiming my formatting was bad was really, really stupid. One, because it wasn't bad, two, because even if it was bad. I had mentioned several times that I was limited to phoneposting yesterday so of course making my posts look good was going to be a lot harder.

[DCLXVI]

Laptop crashed....I guess watching got illegally may not have been a great idea....

Anyway... that post I said I was going to make probably won't come today cause I have no desire to phone post something that big.

[DCLXVI]

Yates is voting TMT..not jjmola

[DCLXVI]

There is a very obvious downside to me naming my partner rob.

[DCLXVI]

Cool dog wants me to make my partner and to lynch me...

This will result in two dead masons to start day 2.

How the hell do you think that is a good idea.

[DCLXVI]

Make = name... @#$% autocorrect.

[DCLXVI]

I'm actually not the leading wagon any more... and I do agree that sorting this out is important.. I will have access to a PC later tonight there are some thing I want to point out that I can't realistically do from my phone.

[DCLXVI]

Not going to do the post I was planning on doing tonight, I should have time tomorrow evening.

[DCLXVI]

Apologies for not posting. Other games with closer deadline took priority.

Good news is I'm getting a new laptop tomorrow so I should be able to get up to speed.

As far as scum reads go, cooldog, radiant, and TMT are my current scum reads.

Rob is town now also have a town read on gorckat. Admiral is probably town as well.

[DCLXVI]

I've been intentionally avoiding giving reads on players that were not on my wagon. For now I don't want to make it any easier for scum to know who my partner is.

[DCLXVI]

The reason why I shouldn't claim my partner has already been discussed. I think it is clear why revealing him or her would not help the town

As far as the breadcrumbing is concerned, I did it that in the event I was run, I could avoid having to y partner claim.

[DCLXVI]

See above, I mean town... because we have the possible 3 way mason claim scenario, which is why we really have to lynch dcl before or at the same time that the other mason claims.

How could we have a three way claim scenario... I only have one partner...

[DCLXVI]

First content post. By the way, if there really are masons, there is no reason for them to out their partners first day.

In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity,

Good job finding this gorckat.

Vote:radiant

[DCLXVI]

No attempt to defend yourself?

Pedit., last words without a claim?

[DCLXVI]

Anyone know if that qualifies as normal?

[DCLXVI]

@radiant why were you so concerned with getting me lynched when you could have investigated me? Or shot/commuted later on?

[DCLXVI]

Ignore the commuter part, I forgot how it worked.

[DCLXVI]

Not sure how that was supposed to my point.

[DCLXVI]

unvote

You know what, scum don't get extra kills. Radiant will have a chance to prove that she is who she says she is. I don't believe he, but two kills would prove that she isn't mafia.

[DCLXVI]

he=her

[DCLXVI]

No.

[DCLXVI]

Oh and @radiant, did you breadcrumb your role at all?

@rofl Claiming my partner day 1 is a bad idea. Trying to force me to do it under the threat of getting vigged is also bad.

[DCLXVI]

Going through and making a larger post but this one thing needs to be highlighted.

If I had a vote I would do this right now. In my opinion it is the best tactical play. Also, mason partner needs to claim before lynch. Otherwise lynching him is self-defeating because we will have to go through wifom all over again with his partner.

Cool dog wants me to claim partner, then he wants to lynch me.

What the fuck.

I can't possibly see how that could turn out bad for the town.

Let's see, I claim partner, I get lynched, I flip mason, partner gets nightkilled, town starts day two with two dead masons. Yeah, thats not so good

@rofl, this is one of the other reason I have avoided claiming my partner, because people are proposing stupid shit like this that is not in any way helpful to the town.

vote:cooldog,

I am cool with this lynch.

Pedit @ Rofl, that wifom you want for the nightkill already exists right now WITHOUT me claiming my partner. Therefor, it is not a reason for me to claim.

[DCLXVI]

Anther very important post to point out.

I did stop being "concerned with getting you lynched" with the intention of investing tonight

Bull effing shit.

Back. I've made up my mind and am definitely pushing the DCL wagon to its finish.

I'm extremely tempted to put my vote back on you.

[DCLXVI]

unvote:cooldog

[DCLXVI]

OH look, radiant still continues to support my lynch.

At this time, I still support a DCLXVI lynch and a CoolDog lynch.

[DCLXVI]

Finally, the trifecta I've been waiting for: I'm at a PC, I'm not tired, I have time to post.

There are a lot of things I want to respond to , bear with me on this.

So you are masons with gorcat.

I'm honestly not getting cooldog's thought process here, he clearly is expressing that he thinks my mason claim is false, but at the same time seems to be looking for who my mason partner might be. (And his attempts at doing so are hilariously bad for reasons that should be obvious)

I may or may not still vote him, and am still broadly in support of this lynch, but am in no rush to lynch a mason claim.

Ok, so let's assume for a moment that radiant actually is a joat. The no rush to lynch a mason claim makes sense in this context.

I'm going to re-vote for DCLXVI for now.

Don't hammer him until I get a chance to make my final decision for what I want to do today.

VOTE: DCLXVI

This is bad for reasons already given by quite a few other players, the last part of it again could fit with him hinting at having some abilities or maybe I'm just stretching things.

At first I didn't like the idea of masons claiming. Upon further reflection, masons are of limited use to the Town. Equally, they are lower priority targets for scum. They are essentially two VT's that can chit chat, right? It's not like they are going to have information we don't already have outside of each others' identities. If the other mason reveals and they can cross-confirm each other, it's like having two innocent results from a cop.

So, if the scum want to waste their night actions on Masons, that buys our PR's more time to do what they need to do. Seems like a reasonable request. What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that leaving confirmed innocents alive is extremely bad for the scum. Not killing two confirmed town is extremely risky from a mafia perspective because if for some reason another player becomes basically confirmed town than they are stuck in a nearly unwinable situation.

We are not

Lynching

A claimed Mason today.

QFT

Back. I've made up my mind and am definitely pushing the DCL wagon to its finish.

I'm extremely tempted to put my vote back on you. Didn't you say that you had decided to investigate me instead of pushing my lynch?

Since Radiant seems to be scum now, wanna share why you had them as town for secret reasons?

Later, it will make sense I promise.

I figure I'll just selfvote this, because there is no coherent argument that I am scum yet four idiots are on my wagon.

I have no desire to play with a town this bad, so I'll just lynch myself to confirm myself and leave you guys with strategy.

If we have anyone

else

with vig powers

, shoot DCLXVI tonight. He's scum.

Lynch DCL if he's not already dead, then kill Rob.


Feel free to do whatever you guys want following that.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Town Power roles do not self-vote.

but eff it, that is definitely looking like a pr slip right there.

vote:cooldog

As very scummy as and contradictory as radiant has been...I can't see this post in its entirety coming from scum.

I meant town sorry. See if we let all of this drag out then we have th possibility of a 3 mason claims on the same day in which 2 will by right and one will be scum. Again, all of the wifom can be avoided by lynching dcl today.

There will not be three mason claims on the same day. And there is no way that one scum will try and counterclaim two masons.

let me explain.

If there is a town mason there are two masons. There cannot be one town mason and two scum fakeclaims. That scenario will never happen. And if there are two town masons, they can just confirm each other...lolz.

------------
I will say this for the last time.

I will not, under any circumstances or threats of any type, name my partner today. It is simply not beneficial to the town. I agree that eventually it will have to be done if I am not investigated/killed or whatnot, but no today. Whether or not it will be beneficial to do so tomorrow largely depends on today's flip and the results of tomorrow night actions as there is a decent chance that decision won't even have to be made so I'm not even going to bother wasting my time on it right now.

---------

[DCLXVI]

As much as I dislike having to say it, despite her scumminess and obvious contradictions radiant did actually breadcrumb and is likely to be town.

[DCLXVI]

I did explain the gork town read

I do want to explain town reads but there are times when doing so is not a good idea.

[DCLXVI]

The only reads I have not explained were the initial rc towhead and the current rob read. I have a legitimate reason for not explaining and that is all i am going to say.

[DCLXVI]

Town head =Town read

[DCLXVI]

@rob

Rob is town now

[DCLXVI]

Lol

[DCLXVI]

@yates, you totally are setting yourself up for at troll answer.

[DCLXVI]

you

are

[DCLXVI]

@rofl here's another fun point against cooldog that I brought up last night.

If I had a vote I would do this right now.

[edit: this refers to voting DCLXVI]

In my opinion it is the best tactical play. Also, mason partner needs to claim before lynch. Otherwise lynching him is self-defeating because we will have to go through wifom all over again with his partner.

Cool dog wants me to claim partner, then he wants to lynch me.

What the fuck.

I can't possibly see how that could turn out bad for the town.

Let's see, I claim partner, I get lynched, I flip mason, partner gets nightkilled, town starts day two with two dead masons. Yeah, thats not so good

[DCLXVI]

was there a particular reason for that?

[DCLXVI]

Miller...I don't think I'm a Miller.

[DCLXVI]

I'll be the first person to agree with you that radiant has been very scummy.

However, she is has a potentially confirmable role and also did kind of breadcrumb it so I think it is a very bad idea to lynch her day 1.

[DCLXVI]

Guys I did some meta research of the mod and this is what I found as a town role in a normal game he had modded:

"You are a Statistician (Town)! You love the damned lies known as statistics. So much fun they are, even when they're useless.

You have the following abilties:
Inside Information - You know there is a 0% chance of a jester existing in this game.

link:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

I say that he would be the type of mod to do something weird, not saying that this is proof RC is town, only that it is proof that it is possible for her to be town.

[DCLXVI]

Oh and in that setup, the statistician claimed day 1 and was lynched.

I don't think RC scum has the balls to make that joat claim. I do think Kitoari has the balls to do something like this as a mod.

[DCLXVI]

vote:TMT

I can go with that plan.

[DCLXVI]

I think we should place a hold on mass-claiming till we here what radiant has to say.

[DCLXVI]

I don't like waiting till day four ... Potential lylo to wait for a cop result... That could get messy.

[DCLXVI]

I prefer popcorn claiming, I also agree with not having my partner claim.

[DCLXVI]

ROFL hasn't posted anywhere on MS since may 29th...

I think he is going to need to be replaced.

[DCLXVI]

DCLXVI

-

TMTOLBTWNTOF

, gorckat,

Rob13

,

CooLDoG

,

RadiantCowbells

, The Admiral

TMTOLBTWNTOF

- BROseidon, jmo16mla, Yates,

Hoopla

,

DCLXVI

, gorckat,

Rob13

Green = confirmed town
Blue = very likely town
Purple=my townreads

These are the two major wagons on town that happened day 1. There is scum in there.

On my wagon, Rob and TMT have both flipped VT, and RC is likely town given the lack of any other PR claims.

As much as I want to OMGUS CoolDoG and vote him, I have to agree with hoopla that his very annoying tunneling on me is more likely to come from town.

That leaves Gork and/or ThAd as scum on my wagon. I'm definitely less certain of my town read on Gorc.

I still think gork has a decent chance of being town so...

vote:The Admiral

[DCLXVI]

Was there a point to that last post...cause you basically answered your own question.

[DCLXVI]

and what did I tell you guys. We wouldn't know if RC is confirmed or not because he told us his kill. Woopdie di da day. Fuck you guys for not listening to me.
vote: dcl
Should have done it yesterday, will do it today. This vote will not move.

How does that crow taste?

........................

There are two circumstances in which I will name my partner.

1. My partner gets to L-1.
2. It is the day before lylo.

[DCLXVI]

Don't narrow down the pool for the second mason.

I really like this Yates lynch, to the extent I'm willing to out the second mason over it.

DCL, please give the word as to whether Yates is your partner.

These posts happened within 11 minutes of each other. RC, I glad you are basically confirmed town because with all your contradictions you would be lynched by now otherwise.

[DCLXVI]

@mod

Just a quick heads up. I'm going to be LA (limited access) from June 8-June 15 as i am going to be on a vacation. I should have internet access so I will be able to occasionally post from my phone.

[DCLXVI]

Also, even at L-1 I wouldn't claim mason. What would be the point? Death of mason 2 confirms mason 1. Otherwise there's always the specter of two scum fake claiming masons.

That is a really stupid idea. I'll let you figure it out why on your own though.

Pedit, I was only looking at scum on the wagon, I don't see how that last post is relevant at all.

[DCLXVI]

@Yates.

1. Thad was on my wagon.
2. Do you really, honestly think that town only has a JOAT?

[DCLXVI]

DCLXVI - TMTOLBTWNTOF, gorckat, Rob13, CooLDoG, RadiantCowbells, The Admiral

@Yates, these are the 6 players that brought me to L-1. My wagon. I believe there is scum there, and yes, thAd was one of the people on it.

What's giving you the impression that I think that?

Your willingness to let a mason die.

Also, even at L-1 I wouldn't claim mason. What would be the point? Death of mason 2 confirms mason 1.

Otherwise there's always the specter of two scum fake claiming masons.

And the fact that you uh, seem ok with letting a mason die, that kind of implies you don't really believe that there are masons cause I have a hard time seeing how you would want to just lynch someone you would think could be nearly confirmed as town.

[DCLXVI]

I'm interested in TheAd over gork because I still have a slight townread on gork, also being on both lists isn't a huge factor.

@Yates, if you believe the mason claim, why the frick are you ok with lynching a mason? That does not make any sense.

[DCLXVI]

Well why would you do that (that being lynch a mason) if you believe that the masons claims are true?

As for gork, his stuff at the beginning of day one. Its rather minor, but enough to tip the scale between him and ThAd.

[DCLXVI]

Why can't the mason partner claim if DCL gets to L-1 or L-1 with declared intent to hammer?

Also, if the mason partner gets run up, it's incumbent upon them to claim at that point

and have DCL confirm.

Also, even at L-1 I wouldn't claim mason. What would be the point? Death of mason 2 confirms mason 1.

Otherwise

there's always the specter of two scum fake claiming masons

.

I'm on the record as saying I believe the mason claim.

There are others who do [or did] not share this opinion.

My concern is scum claiming the mason claims are part of a scum gambit to get one mislynched then nk the other that same night.

So I guess the point is moot other than the fact you can recover from that more easily on Day 2 than you can say Day 4.

There is a lot of contradictory shit going on here.

@yates, if you believe my claim, which you say you do. why the heck do you post that "even at L-1 I wouldn't claim mason. What would be the point" The point? um, maybe avoiding a mislynch would be the point of having the other mason claim if they are brought to L-1. Or is that not good enough of a reason for a mason to claim.

[DCLXVI]

@mod please prod cooldog

[DCLXVI]

bah...

[DCLXVI]

Well, that was an interesting turn of events.

RC would have been in for a bit of trouble had her kill gone through though. a vig/cop/hider + two masons > two mafia

[DCLXVI]

@ROFL

Very good job.