Mini 1472: welcome 2 #SWAGTOWN w. ur boy empire (End)

[Nachomamma8]

nacho, if you're town can you please make it really super obvious really quickly, please? i need more town i feel confident in.

chances are that I'll be killed very early in this scrub playerlist so you won't have to worry long!

[Nachomamma8]

ok now it's time for real life catchup:

my friends
tammy, matty (not kanye, he's a jerk), deas, redcoyote, ZZZX (well he's not my friend cuz I don't know him but I like him very much ), fonz (well fonz is not my friend but he is just sooo cool) are all town. these town reads compose of a majority of town, meaning that we win as long as no bad people lynch my friends!!!

(catching up for real, I promise I won't sound like this all game)

[Nachomamma8]

Did anyone hear that sigh of relief earlier this afternoon? Yeah, that was me when I saw I was town. Empire's a terrible troll.

I'm always relieved a little whenever Tammy/Tierce dance a little about being town in thread. Always.

...I feel like suggesting negative-ISOs over at Site Ideas. It would allow you to view the thread WITHOUT one or two players' posts.

Loud dynamics tend to polarize scum into the quieter category is my guess. Maybe 1 joins in the convo and the others clam it. I'll opt for that theory and sit tight for now.

Unvote

Maybe I'm a little bit biased because I skimmed the thread and saw yabbaguy's shitty vote on me, but I don't like that his play so far has equated to complaining about too much activity and not actually trying to read either of the people who are creating all of the activity.

If you were actually interested in ascertaining other people's alignments you a) would be recognizing something I've made very clear since my first post...I just found out I got a job and have been celebrating ergo having fun right now b) wouldn't actually compare me to some scrub scum c) would recognize that you don't have a clue to my scum or town meta and wouldn't be applying it willy nilly tyvm d) would recognize I'm very much town here.

I find that Tammy isn't likely to waste so much time yelling at a player who is scumreading her for bad reasons as scum than she is in town. I can also feel the passion/rage in these posts which is something that I haven't seen since that one game that got abandoned, so feeling good about her right now.

I'm still of the opinion that scum mostly haven't posted yet. Don't think we have any outright lurkers to hunt, which is disappointing.

VOTE: F16_F_F, thanks for agreeing, but he appears least genuine and his actual case was poor.

I have to say that I'm not a horribly large fan of this post either.

Meanwhile, I'm going to steal Fonz's idea which he telepathically stole from me and go with the easy lynch. As in, I nearly voted them over F-16 in the first place.

"I almost voted scum over a townie, I promise!"

2. PL is a 'townsperson.' Means newbie, alt, or hydra. (Use of 'our' in first post suggests the latter?) If PL is a newbie, then having played with Tammy before is not noteworthy. If PL is an alt or hydra, ze or they (seriously, can we clear this up in order to make pronoun use easier?) knows full well how to search a user's past games. Therefore, asking for meta fulfills the role of looking like you're doing something useful, whilst a) being unnecessary and b) not giving any actual opinions on what's happening in the game.

#SWAGvote: The Fonz

This specific paragraph is absolutely horrible.

Now who can tell me why?

~ I'll give you Reese's!

Interesting vote to be pocketed and looked at later. I don't really think that it's likely that one scumbuddy goes for the defense and the other goes for the chainsaw so quickly, so I'd call it a little less likely that yabba/sottyrulez are scum together.

Tammy,

As town have you ever knowingly posted a towntell?

And I actually like this question quite a bit, surprisingly enough.

Fonz completely misreps our voting patterns, and makes our first vote sound like it was serious, if he missed the votes me and zoidy made on the first page then it's fine but he actually talked about the vote I placed on Matt/Kanye meaning he has seen them.

This isn't Marangal talking about a scumbuddy.

Unvote

- actual content post tomorrow.

yabba, why did you unvote here?

The Fonz calls out Purple Lobsta for trying to look town (illusion of content) where they ask Tammy for her games. In that very same post, The Fonz questions whether or not the players are a "hydra" or a single player. To me that information is just as easily found as old games. This point is also reinforced by the fact that The Fonz has been on this site for 6 years. I am sure he knows how to find out if a player is a hydra or not. It takes a little digging.

oooh, I really liked this aswell.

Implosion's #168 is town as fuck and he can join the superfriends for it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you aren't being forthwright with us. This all sounds fake and put on. These typos, missed capitalizations, goofy attiutde, etc.

And this certainly seems like town-Coyote to me.

Actually, implosion, I have a serious question. Why did you want a voting bloc with yourself, Tammy, and F-16 but not Fonz? Either replacing one of those names or as a fourth?

I don't have a townread on Fonz. I like his posting, and I think he made good points, but that doesn't equate to a townread on him.

This is a bit of town paranoia that I appreciate quite a bit.

-Do you actually suspect RedCoyote?
-You said that the purpose of a voting bloc was to 'cohesively apply pressure', which is a reasonable motive. Now I'm not RedCoyote, however, I seriously doubt he felt any pressure from your vote. You voted solely because your fellow bloc member did AND you distanced yourself from the vote by putting all the responsibility on Tammy. The implication of your 196 was that you wouldn't have voted RedCoyote if Tammy hadn't. So how was your vote supposed to help pressure RedCoyote?
-Why not try to convince Tammy to vote PURPLE LOBSTA, who I assume was/is still your top suspect at the time?

These questions are dancing around an attack that is fairly straightforward and instead evolves into "why don't you care about where your vote lands, you sheep?"

I don't believe either of the top two wagons is scum - RedCoyote I could vote out of extreme complacency, but absolutely not PURPLE LOBSTA. I've changed my mind, they're scumhunting more productively than I thought they would.

VOTE: pandashnoo

I think their scumhunting comes across the most fake. For instance, stating their agenda out loud might possibly be the sort of thing scum do. "Hey look at me, I am now going to meta read someone [because this is something that Town people do!!! You see that???]"

Suddenly 180'ing on LOBSTA and calling them town as fuck and then going for the easy lynch isn't exactly reassuring.

I personally think that Tammy's RedCoyote case is horribly, horribly, horribly wrong but I think that she's town for it. I also appreciate his response in #291!

#322 is holy fucking shit Matt is town. I thought he lurked through the game and that's why he was getting vote even though he still wasn't town, but #322 gives me something to believe in.

I really don't want to scumread PL (or at least I'm trying to be hesitant to scumread them because we're arguing a lot, which clouds vision to some extent) but ugh, the sheer amount of stuff coming out of that slot that just does not make any sense from town is enough already.

If this is scum bussing I'll eat my hair since I don't wear hats.

Okay, I've read and I might actually change my mind on PURPLE LOBSTA and vote them later, maybe even more readily than RedCoyote. Still gonna give my alt wagons a chance though, not convinced. Like panda-wagon for example.

But this? This definitely is. Yabba changes his mind on PURPLE LOBSTA when the momentum builds up against them and when it starts to wane away. He tried pulling Fonz off earlier with his "hey, they're actually doing stuff now!" and since that didn't work, he's now posturing against it.

I'll be reading tonight. Answer anything addressed to me at that time. See you then.

Strange that Mirari expected stuff to be addressed at them. I find new-scum always feel like every post they make will be attacked so this is strange.

Tammy, can't we just be town together? I don't want to build another wall #nomorewalls #canthidemylove

Just reminding myself how town RC is.

PURPLE LOBSTA is the name that should be between everybody's vote tags right now though. Purple is a really nice colour and all, and the fusion of their eyes in combination with the shape of their head even makes me want to ignore the pincers and attack them with an over-enthusiastic cuddle. However, the pincers do exist and must not be ignored!!!

I suspect that in Purple Lobsta's case, lying has been much like softclaiming and potato chips in that once they start, they just can't stop! There seems to be a complete lack of anything genuine in their posts.

I am down for giving DV a pass just for this super good post against PL that would be a pretty nice bus if it were a bus.

prod dodge...

also Tammy I completely understand your comments again, its fair enough
I read other games because it seemed easier for me to do that, but I also find this a bit scary haha, and the size of the game overwhelming, I always tend to pick up on the next few days when there are less people (usually) or at least we have some results to go on.
This is my first long game so I hope you can forgive me for this, or do you think I should ask for a replacement?

No don't ask for a replacement, just give some of your thoughts on this game.

fucking traitor

The issue I have with Wicked is that he is focussing on previous scumreads as opposed to current scumreads. For instance I read Tammy as town, yet he wants me to make posts explaining why I believed Tammy to be scum.

This is interesting. I don't think Wicked-scum would be trying to pit Tammy/F16 against each other though; I think that he would be trying to rehash an F-16 wagon, personally.

I always forget what order the f and the l are in. If you were to go into his games, I don't know if you'd find one, I've read several of his games. Not even close to all of them. I haven't seen a game where he's replaced out like this, I also haven't seen him replace out in general either. I'm not basing my theory on a history of him doing it, my theory is that given his dislike for scum, I would find it far more likely that he would flake without a word with a scum role pm vs a town one. I've certainly seen the behavior before from other players without a prior history of doing it.

this post actually just sucks.

Yabba and Implosion both had scummish reactions to Zoid's "test" though Yabba's was much more IMO.

She loves calling Yabba scummy but she doesn't love to vote him.

also why the fuck is anyone voting yabba that kid was obvtown by page 2

kanye is lame

The question for me isn't how likely is it that there's a cop in the setup, but rather how likely I think it is that Purple is scum. Pretty damn likely.

holy fucking shit is this scummy. Zachrulez ignores Purple Lobster until they claim cop and THEN they are willing to lynch them? Bullshit.

I have no idea how Deasvail became the leading wagon, but I've never been able to read him so...

I still prefer lynching Lobster, but unless we're counting on multiple votes moving on him within the next 6 hours it looks like our choices are Deas or no lynch. I really hate deadline scrambles.

also garbage.
"I don't know how to read DeasVail but I'm really fine lynching him over my scumread that is so strong I don't give a shit that they claimed cop. I am not gonna scream at people to stop being pussies and switch on over and instead I'm going to complain about how I have no choice "

Wow. I'm actually really surprised y'all don't see me as more scummy. I'd think that I would want to vote me coming into today over how much back-and-forth I did about PL.

town as shit.

Nice, a scum flip and a town-slip! Or ZZZX is en route to a Scummy.

i hate this post.
probably more than I should, but I hate this post.

Because I'm not really interested in getting into a big debate about meta here. I think the only game you haven't come after me with any suspicion at all was the invitational, and that game had the benefit of me coming in with labeled confirmed town already. So... yeah.

i'm ignoring you because you always think i'm scum

[Nachomamma8]

Did anyone hear that sigh of relief earlier this afternoon? Yeah, that was me when I saw I was town. Empire's a terrible troll.

I'm always relieved a little whenever Tammy/Tierce dance a little about being town in thread. Always.

...I feel like suggesting negative-ISOs over at Site Ideas. It would allow you to view the thread WITHOUT one or two players' posts.

Loud dynamics tend to polarize scum into the quieter category is my guess. Maybe 1 joins in the convo and the others clam it. I'll opt for that theory and sit tight for now.

Unvote

Maybe I'm a little bit biased because I skimmed the thread and saw yabbaguy's shitty vote on me, but I don't like that his play so far has equated to complaining about too much activity and not actually trying to read either of the people who are creating all of the activity.

If you were actually interested in ascertaining other people's alignments you a) would be recognizing something I've made very clear since my first post...I just found out I got a job and have been celebrating ergo having fun right now b) wouldn't actually compare me to some scrub scum c) would recognize that you don't have a clue to my scum or town meta and wouldn't be applying it willy nilly tyvm d) would recognize I'm very much town here.

I find that Tammy isn't likely to waste so much time yelling at a player who is scumreading her for bad reasons as scum than she is in town. I can also feel the passion/rage in these posts which is something that I haven't seen since that one game that got abandoned, so feeling good about her right now.

I'm still of the opinion that scum mostly haven't posted yet. Don't think we have any outright lurkers to hunt, which is disappointing.

VOTE: F16_F_F, thanks for agreeing, but he appears least genuine and his actual case was poor.

I have to say that I'm not a horribly large fan of this post either.

Meanwhile, I'm going to steal Fonz's idea which he telepathically stole from me and go with the easy lynch. As in, I nearly voted them over F-16 in the first place.

"I almost voted scum over a townie, I promise!"

2. PL is a 'townsperson.' Means newbie, alt, or hydra. (Use of 'our' in first post suggests the latter?) If PL is a newbie, then having played with Tammy before is not noteworthy. If PL is an alt or hydra, ze or they (seriously, can we clear this up in order to make pronoun use easier?) knows full well how to search a user's past games. Therefore, asking for meta fulfills the role of looking like you're doing something useful, whilst a) being unnecessary and b) not giving any actual opinions on what's happening in the game.

#SWAGvote: The Fonz

This specific paragraph is absolutely horrible.

Now who can tell me why?

~ I'll give you Reese's!

Interesting vote to be pocketed and looked at later. I don't really think that it's likely that one scumbuddy goes for the defense and the other goes for the chainsaw so quickly, so I'd call it a little less likely that yabba/sottyrulez are scum together.

Tammy,

As town have you ever knowingly posted a towntell?

And I actually like this question quite a bit, surprisingly enough.

Fonz completely misreps our voting patterns, and makes our first vote sound like it was serious, if he missed the votes me and zoidy made on the first page then it's fine but he actually talked about the vote I placed on Matt/Kanye meaning he has seen them.

This isn't Marangal talking about a scumbuddy.

Unvote

- actual content post tomorrow.

yabba, why did you unvote here?

The Fonz calls out Purple Lobsta for trying to look town (illusion of content) where they ask Tammy for her games. In that very same post, The Fonz questions whether or not the players are a "hydra" or a single player. To me that information is just as easily found as old games. This point is also reinforced by the fact that The Fonz has been on this site for 6 years. I am sure he knows how to find out if a player is a hydra or not. It takes a little digging.

oooh, I really liked this aswell.

Implosion's #168 is town as fuck and he can join the superfriends for it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you aren't being forthwright with us. This all sounds fake and put on. These typos, missed capitalizations, goofy attiutde, etc.

And this certainly seems like town-Coyote to me.

Actually, implosion, I have a serious question. Why did you want a voting bloc with yourself, Tammy, and F-16 but not Fonz? Either replacing one of those names or as a fourth?

I don't have a townread on Fonz. I like his posting, and I think he made good points, but that doesn't equate to a townread on him.

This is a bit of town paranoia that I appreciate quite a bit.

-Do you actually suspect RedCoyote?
-You said that the purpose of a voting bloc was to 'cohesively apply pressure', which is a reasonable motive. Now I'm not RedCoyote, however, I seriously doubt he felt any pressure from your vote. You voted solely because your fellow bloc member did AND you distanced yourself from the vote by putting all the responsibility on Tammy. The implication of your 196 was that you wouldn't have voted RedCoyote if Tammy hadn't. So how was your vote supposed to help pressure RedCoyote?
-Why not try to convince Tammy to vote PURPLE LOBSTA, who I assume was/is still your top suspect at the time?

These questions are dancing around an attack that is fairly straightforward and instead evolves into "why don't you care about where your vote lands, you sheep?"

I don't believe either of the top two wagons is scum - RedCoyote I could vote out of extreme complacency, but absolutely not PURPLE LOBSTA. I've changed my mind, they're scumhunting more productively than I thought they would.

VOTE: pandashnoo

I think their scumhunting comes across the most fake. For instance, stating their agenda out loud might possibly be the sort of thing scum do. "Hey look at me, I am now going to meta read someone [because this is something that Town people do!!! You see that???]"

Suddenly 180'ing on LOBSTA and calling them town as fuck and then going for the easy lynch isn't exactly reassuring.

I personally think that Tammy's RedCoyote case is horribly, horribly, horribly wrong but I think that she's town for it. I also appreciate his response in #291!

#322 is holy fucking shit Matt is town. I thought he lurked through the game and that's why he was getting vote even though he still wasn't town, but #322 gives me something to believe in.

I really don't want to scumread PL (or at least I'm trying to be hesitant to scumread them because we're arguing a lot, which clouds vision to some extent) but ugh, the sheer amount of stuff coming out of that slot that just does not make any sense from town is enough already.

If this is scum bussing I'll eat my hair since I don't wear hats.

Okay, I've read and I might actually change my mind on PURPLE LOBSTA and vote them later, maybe even more readily than RedCoyote. Still gonna give my alt wagons a chance though, not convinced. Like panda-wagon for example.

But this? This definitely is. Yabba changes his mind on PURPLE LOBSTA when the momentum builds up against them and when it starts to wane away. He tried pulling Fonz off earlier with his "hey, they're actually doing stuff now!" and since that didn't work, he's now posturing against it.

I'll be reading tonight. Answer anything addressed to me at that time. See you then.

Strange that Mirari expected stuff to be addressed at them. I find new-scum always feel like every post they make will be attacked so this is strange.

Tammy, can't we just be town together? I don't want to build another wall #nomorewalls #canthidemylove

Just reminding myself how town RC is.

PURPLE LOBSTA is the name that should be between everybody's vote tags right now though. Purple is a really nice colour and all, and the fusion of their eyes in combination with the shape of their head even makes me want to ignore the pincers and attack them with an over-enthusiastic cuddle. However, the pincers do exist and must not be ignored!!!

I suspect that in Purple Lobsta's case, lying has been much like softclaiming and potato chips in that once they start, they just can't stop! There seems to be a complete lack of anything genuine in their posts.

I am down for giving DV a pass just for this super good post against PL that would be a pretty nice bus if it were a bus.

prod dodge...

also Tammy I completely understand your comments again, its fair enough
I read other games because it seemed easier for me to do that, but I also find this a bit scary haha, and the size of the game overwhelming, I always tend to pick up on the next few days when there are less people (usually) or at least we have some results to go on.
This is my first long game so I hope you can forgive me for this, or do you think I should ask for a replacement?

No don't ask for a replacement, just give some of your thoughts on this game.

fucking traitor

The issue I have with Wicked is that he is focussing on previous scumreads as opposed to current scumreads. For instance I read Tammy as town, yet he wants me to make posts explaining why I believed Tammy to be scum.

This is interesting. I don't think Wicked-scum would be trying to pit Tammy/F16 against each other though; I think that he would be trying to rehash an F-16 wagon, personally.

I always forget what order the f and the l are in. If you were to go into his games, I don't know if you'd find one, I've read several of his games. Not even close to all of them. I haven't seen a game where he's replaced out like this, I also haven't seen him replace out in general either. I'm not basing my theory on a history of him doing it, my theory is that given his dislike for scum, I would find it far more likely that he would flake without a word with a scum role pm vs a town one. I've certainly seen the behavior before from other players without a prior history of doing it.

this post actually just sucks.

Yabba and Implosion both had scummish reactions to Zoid's "test" though Yabba's was much more IMO.

She loves calling Yabba scummy but she doesn't love to vote him.

also why the fuck is anyone voting yabba that kid was obvtown by page 2

kanye is lame

The question for me isn't how likely is it that there's a cop in the setup, but rather how likely I think it is that Purple is scum. Pretty damn likely.

holy fucking shit is this scummy. Zachrulez ignores Purple Lobster until they claim cop and THEN they are willing to lynch them? Bullshit.

I have no idea how Deasvail became the leading wagon, but I've never been able to read him so...

I still prefer lynching Lobster, but unless we're counting on multiple votes moving on him within the next 6 hours it looks like our choices are Deas or no lynch. I really hate deadline scrambles.

also garbage.
"I don't know how to read DeasVail but I'm really fine lynching him over my scumread that is so strong I don't give a shit that they claimed cop. I am not gonna scream at people to stop being pussies and switch on over and instead I'm going to complain about how I have no choice "

Wow. I'm actually really surprised y'all don't see me as more scummy. I'd think that I would want to vote me coming into today over how much back-and-forth I did about PL.

town as shit.

Nice, a scum flip and a town-slip! Or ZZZX is en route to a Scummy.

i hate this post.
probably more than I should, but I hate this post.

Because I'm not really interested in getting into a big debate about meta here. I think the only game you haven't come after me with any suspicion at all was the invitational, and that game had the benefit of me coming in with labeled confirmed town already. So... yeah.

i'm ignoring you because you always think i'm scum

[Nachomamma8]

sorry i always do that for some reason.

Sottyrulez and Yabba are the scumteam. F-16 kill last night seriously sucked and essentially cleared Tammy for while, implosion's exchange with Marangal was definitely not scum theatre (she isn't that comfortable bussing her buddies like that), DeasVail's yesterday combined with his "thanks for not lynching me guys" makes HIM town as fuck, I see no reason why we wouldn't give matty two weeks to study for his MCAT so he can become a doctor instead of getting stupidly mislynched for god knows what reason (Fonzy, the scumtells for Marangal and Matt as players are so incredibly different that if you can compare them you're probably doing something seriously wrong), RedCoyote is town town town and in a good way not an RC-scum way (in particular, I don't think he would waste so much time arguing with Tammy as scum. It was useless and the way he went about it essentially meant she was never going to townread him. I think RC can manipulate Tammy w/ease because I can manipulate Tammy w/ease and RC is a better scum player than I am). Fonz is obviously town not only for his Purple Lobsta fight, but his push on SPB today; usually you want to get easy mislynches out of the way after a nice bus, pushing a lurky town player into action when they might break your facade while they go down is never a good idea, Wicked I'm writing off as town for now because he's a nice guy but honestly have no fucking clue, ZZZX townslipped, yabba is so awkward around Purple Lobsta and Purple Lobsta is so awkward around him that it's like they're at high school prom, and zach has been playing scum as fuck and needs to die ASAP.

Vote: Sottyrulez

[Nachomamma8]

Oh wait nacho, did my case have to horribly cubed wrong? Couldn't it just have been wrong with flair or something?

rc is town town town so your case was horribly horribly horribly wrong
sorry baby you usually got style but nobody got style when they're pushing on RC-town

[Nachomamma8]

(Hi Tammy, can I get a word in edgewise? Thanks.)

---

I am glaring at that Mirari ISO, literally. They jumped to the conclusion that Fonz should know PL was a hydra, when in fact it wasn't instantly obvious - certainly not when Fonz's 101 was posted. This miiiiiiiiight be TMI; it's not conclusive, but it's quite possible. Plus their Fonz vote is right up the alley of the Chainsaw Defense since PL's a confirmed scum flip.

I need to give this a few more minutes of due diligence...

I thought you were gonna look into their ISO deeper, not just ask them for a claim and tell them to talk more.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - did you really say I'm easy to manipulate? *mad*

yes please don't be mad at me

[Nachomamma8]

nonono you weren't supposed to pop the lid on that so early

[Nachomamma8]

You guys are not funny. You know that amount of uncertainty and waffling I tend to do in thread? It's only a fraction of what goes on in my head, and if I manage to believe something for a minute, I'm always doubting that, so this isn't funny.

Also, the only person I feel really confident in being town is implosion, so Nyah.

exactly.
easy to cash in on all that uncertainty, all of that fear, all of that paranoia.

Nacho you said that you liked that fonz was going after spb today because normally you'd like an easy mislynch after a bus BUT sottyrulez is also going after spb today after potentially bussing yesterday

Fonz, if scum, would've laid his chips all down on the table and bussed the living fuck out of LOBSTA for no real reason. This would be an extremely balls-to-the-wall bus, with the might of the yellow buses from School Districts 1-300. Sottyrulez's bus was piss poor. Started out with defense, randomly shifted to bus when it was clear that the Lobsta wasn't living long. Fonz, if scum, would be lying down to rest from his mighty bussing experience. Maybe he would use his towncred to destroy someone else's towncred, but probably not. He would probably just go for the easy lynch.

Sottyrulez was already posturing for possible votes on Panda and Wicked. Who else can he really push? ZZZtownslip? You? RC? Deas? Yabba? (oh wait yabba is his scumbuddy, nevermind) SPB is third most viable mislynch and he already has Fonz fighting that battle for him.

[Nachomamma8]

^
I preemptively counterclaim what you're about to fakeclaim, so that funny business will not work.

[Nachomamma8]

matt

[Nachomamma8]

?

[Nachomamma8]

matt what the hell are you doing matt

[Nachomamma8]

I'd like you to elaborate,

#888 was not serious.
#888 was not even a little bit serious. I have never used the phrase "funny business" seriously in my entire life.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't understand the jump, it looks completely artificial, it looks like you're Mirari/Sotty's scumbuddy, I don't think you would have done this to a townie if you were scum

I liked that Mirari opened up the game with a vote on Fonz and I didn't figure that they would so openly chainsaw their partner in the way they did. But then sotty jumped in and I started strongly scumreading Zach, who is usually decently transparent as town for me.

What was even the point of quoting all of the Mirari posts? It looks like arbitrary referencing to me, and that only makes sense if you're trying to make it known that you're not avoiding the slot

That's how I like to catch up sometimes. I'm not taking notes for this game, so I also might need to remind myself why I was having townpings from Mirari if sottyrulez comes in here and actually starts posting something with the smallest resemblance of towniness.

And you buddied me this game, and that's actually scummy since we just saw each other in RL and I have a feeling you're just feeding into the buddy buddy angle to get me on your side when as town you would at least try to be a little more grounded or skeptical, even if you thought I did some town things

I'm not really that skeptical of you because I am expecting you to step it the fuck up and produce amazing things when you're done with your MCATs, although this is pretty reassuring.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: yabbaguy

that was the other possibility.

[Nachomamma8]

Now I just hope the scum don't have a roleblocker.

You already have a roleblock, I seriously doubt that scum also have a roleblock.

[Nachomamma8]

thank god, this game is going to be harder to figure out than i thought it was

1. Tammy
2. DeasVail
4. implosion
6. SlumberPartyBois
7. The Fonz

these are my strong town reads, cop+cop inno not included. which leaves me with yabba, ZZZX, and Wicked. I'm fairly confident that ZZZX probably didn't fake his slip and I'm decently confident that Wicked is the second scum pretty much by PoE, but it never helps to double-check. and if SPB pulled that last-minute paranoid dive at me instead of waiting for sotty to claim then i've been played like Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

oh god no way in hell ZZZX faked that. cool!

[Nachomamma8]

matty are you studying already

[Nachomamma8]

what

[Nachomamma8]

1x vig clears a suspect while confirming him as town (since mafia vig and all), and 1x roleblock is super helpful if we lynch scum today.
not to mention that we can no lynch and have him fire at our lynch target overnight and hey he's confirmed town and the person we wanted to die dies.

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, let's not lynch the claimed cop, despite that I still have some doubts.

AND WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS YABBA

[Nachomamma8]

not to mention
all of that and i'm not mentioning one crucial fact

why the fuck does it matter if the vig kill is a waste or not?

[Nachomamma8]

No Lynch costs us a lynch,

not if there's two kills during the night

[Nachomamma8]

also, yabba?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... =Vigilante

[Nachomamma8]

and i will also wager
it's a tiny wager, but still a wager

that we have some semblance of an investigative role. so i don't really think it will be necessary to test sottyrulez unless some other investigative role claims bc he has three pretty solid powers.

[Nachomamma8]

it's a role that is powerful enough where it shouldn't coexist with many different things.
i'm assuming some investigative role, and zach's behavior toward PL makes a lot of sense considering his role.

[Nachomamma8]

also he becomes confirmed town when he shoots that gun
so

[Nachomamma8]

sure.

[Nachomamma8]

zach can i interest you in a yabba wagon?

[Nachomamma8]

i think it's scummy and i think it's odd that you just believe it without question.

the beauty of it is that i don't have to question it. if there's another investigative role, i kill it. if not, it's probably town.

[Nachomamma8]

yabba, who is scum if zach isn't?

[Nachomamma8]

two scum, yabba.

[Nachomamma8]

actually if we lynch yabbascum today i would very much prefer he use his roleblock and not his vig shot

[Nachomamma8]

i'm discussing activity plain and simple. nacho is all, oh we should give matt time to study for his mcat's when you're not doing what you should be doing and making excuses while being active elsewhere.

and that damn *twitch* that means i don't think that was tonally townie, it struck me at a gut level. you have flashes of being tonally townie but that's it flashes. if you have time elsewhere, you have time here.

tammy, matt does have an mcat to study for. this is truth.
i do expect him to procrastinate a bit and i'm pretty happy with what he's procrastinated/produced right now.
i don't think he has time to fully towninate like you want him to. i don't think that's even necessary when there's scum to lynch and we can sort out matty with roleblocks and bullets. what do you think of yabba?

[Nachomamma8]

What do you mean by this?

I was first on the replacement list and Tammy told Panda not to replace out

[Nachomamma8]

because Jack of all trades doesn't really run the risk of countering something else like a cop counters a tracker or a doctor counters a jailkeeper.

if there is an investigative role, please counterclaim because i do not think your role exists with zach's.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

[Nachomamma8]

mmmm

[Nachomamma8]

it's wicked or ZZZ.

[Nachomamma8]

Whoa, then you are!!! You didn't visit anyone!

why aren't you voting him?

[Nachomamma8]

it's wicked or ZZZ.

it

should

be zzz if redcoyote is right about his wicked read. i kinda wrote him off earlier because he doesn't seem like the fake a townslip type, but i didn't think of traitor possibilities because it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory but is totally possible.

[Nachomamma8]

No need to drag this through the mud

i'm not exactly that happy with it.

[Nachomamma8]

zach what do you think about yabba's claim?

[Nachomamma8]

his track result could be real but that doesn't have anything to do with his actual alignment.

[Nachomamma8]

So if the power roles are: yabba, another role, protective role then scum definitely have a roleblocker.
If the power roles are: sotty + protective role and maybe another role then scum probably don't have a roleblocker.
I could maybe see yabba + sotty + protective role, but the ??? role in the equation makes that not possible.
So, either the ??? role claims after yabba calls it out and he's pretty much confirmed town, or we no lynch and sotty shoots at yabba during the night.

Those are my thoughts.

[Nachomamma8]

RC is a terrible lynch for today thanks to Zach's innocent on him and possible later confirmation.

[Nachomamma8]

The way you tried to manipulate statistics to give the impression of hard numerical evidence of the falsity of the cop claim also looked really scummy, and had PL flipped town, I'd probably never have unvoted you. Him flipping scum makes me think you genuinely thought your statistical argument had validity. Ergo, less likely scum.

I don't quite understand this. Do you think that Wicked wouldn't use statistics in order to bus his buddy?

Of the three, I think DV is my most shaky read. He got on the PL wagon with reservation (really only because the wagon on me fell apart). I don't really get that whole "Fonz Townread" post... what was the point of that? Also, practically speaking, his claim is out there already, so we're not potentially outing yabba's supposed mystery guest star.

Could you talk about your Wicked townread with me a little more?

What is up with people asking me what I think with yabba when I've talked plenty about yabba?

I was trying to subtly tell you to vote yabba. It seems I was far too subtle.

Tbf this also applies to sottyrulez. He could just as easily be a scum joat as yabba could be a scum tracker.

Not with a vig shot.

mafia VIG an explicitly non normal rol

this with an e on the end

The bolded is why I will never have a town read on you this game. Your entire play is super slimy and not honest. You are trying to underhandedly throw suspicion on me for something that had not occurred instead of honestly interacting with me to figure me out.

Tammy please stop tunneling on him.

Vote: Wickedestjr

[Nachomamma8]

No. I'm not even tunneling on him. I'd say the person I'm most likely tunneling if I were tunneling anyone would be zach.

There is no point in pushing or voting zach today. If Zach is scum and RC is his partner, then there's an extraordinarily large chance that that scumteam is going to crumble after a single day so your current argument with RC (sorting him out, all that) is essentially useless. I currently think that he's town because he seems agonized by your push on him in the same way that you seem to be antagonized by his slimy nasty attacks on you even though there is literally no reason for him to attack you when there's no way in hell that he's going to get you lynched. Not to mention that we're currently in the process of sorting out Zach and his confirmable ability, meaning that there is literally no reason to attempt to sort him out today. So if you are so convinced, dump your vote on Wicked and kill Zach when there's one kill tomorrow. Otherwise, help us sort people out of the actual vig pool.

[Nachomamma8]

I think I'm now the top bandwagon, but I have no idea why. Is there any actual... reasoning? Or am I just top choice due to POE?

Pretty much.
I'm also not a giant fan of your ZZZX case; it feels like the main push is "why is it so town?" as opposed to "hey guys I really think this guy is scum and why aren't you lynching him???".

[Nachomamma8]

Firstly, the slip isn't the only reason I suspect ZZZX. Secondly, your 'feeling' is completely wrong. I've seen mafia fake a town slip before, I've explained why I think ZZZX is faking here, and I've clearly been trying to get more people to vote him. e.g. 1046, 1048, 1102. Your 'feeling' is completely baseless.

I think that one of {ZZZX, you} are scum and another one of {yabba, sottyrulez} is scum. If you flip town I'll be like "ok let's lynch whoever is the bad guy of yabba/sotty during the night" (((probably sotty))), and then I'll lynch ZZZ and we'll be happy and celebrate because the game is solved but I probably won't regret your lynch even a tiny little bit. You've seen scum townslip, so have I. I think this is the perfect scenario for a super awesome townslip from town like this one and your case doesn't excite me that much, so I'm voting you.

[Nachomamma8]

Fonzy, do you think SPB is scum who didn't submit the kill N1 and isn't a scum PR?

[Nachomamma8]

Ah. Fair enough on that point.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't like the way that nacho was talking to wicked though, the whole "I won't really care if you're a mislynch" thing just rubbed me the wrong way. I mean it would be one thing if he said it to someone generally unhelpful or that he wouldn't trust in lylo,

He was a good middle of the road lynch that I enjoyed quite a bit.

I'm a three shot neighborizer, the secret mysterious power role that yabbaguy alluded to. I neighborized him last night, that's how he knew about me.

You are a neighborizer? I think that the way yabba went about using you in order to help lynch Zach is absolute bullshit in that case, and I think your role works better with Zach's than yours does. Three shot neighborizer lines up with three shot JOAT and cop result and roleblock result are pretty much instant returns where the tracker claims usually don't bring any special information until later.

I dont think DV is scum, if he was scum with PL then he would have hammered self to stop useful info in the day since someone from their team is 100% getting lynched

also most of his posts have a townie smell in them

hmmm?

Nacho is at L2, i wont vote untill we get an opinion

Everyone who voted him, what is your main reason to vote him?

Meanwhile, I hate this so, so much.

I am a bodyguard, which I crumbed when I came in the day.

[Nachomamma8]

nacho, if you're town can you please make it really super obvious really quickly, please? i need more town i feel confident in.

chances are that I'll be killed very early in this scrub playerlist so you won't have to worry long!

get it? it's genius so don't worry about it too much.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: ZZZX

I'm not lynching anyone else today.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - Do you think that yabba is a scum tracker then?

Yes. I will type up an RC case later for you.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm somewhat in support of a massclaim.

If you have a PR, claim in your next post. I'm fairly sure we're going to get a giant string of VT claims and I am not horribly interested in waiting for popcorn.

We're sure-sure on this?

Yep. There's no way in hell that you two exist together, so when he shoots you during the night because you guys don't have a roleblocker then he'll be confirmed town.

*are we indicating who should be the vig kill this Night at all?

You, probably.

Who did panda target previously?

Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

the chances of them being town together is very, very, very low unless the scumteam is stacked.

[Nachomamma8]

maaaaaaaaaybe

[Nachomamma8]

but can you really scrape two scum out of the remaining players? I'm feeling pretty great about this ZZZX lynch at the moment but I would be decently surprised if anyone else flipped scum that wasn't named yabbaguy.

[Nachomamma8]

also, why do you think he's been more town lately? the 3-shot 3-shot thing was pretty cool to me and i don't think zach would pull out the identity theft card when he's going to die after he fails in his kill during the night.

[Nachomamma8]

i think deasvail is a really, really, really poor lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

one nonstandard doesn't mean one non normal

[Nachomamma8]

lynch zzz with me tammy

[Nachomamma8]

Okay nacho. How confident are you in DV being town? (And acknowledging that you always town read him?)

asking me how confident i am in dv being town is a dangerous dangerous thing to ask.
give me a minute to look through a couple more games first.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay nacho. How confident are you in DV being town? (And acknowledging that you always town read him?)

acknowledging that i excessively townread him after always on
i think that he is town.
i am pretty confident that he is town. I don't think that I would have too much trouble reading him, I just think that we usually end up on the same side. The one exception is castle zar where I was pretty much trying to buy time before I was awarded with instant death but I really really think he is town right now.

[Nachomamma8]

she was talking to me, go study you lame-o

[Nachomamma8]

Meh. So you're basically only scum if both of you are? That's refreshing >_>

it'll be super refreshing when i get killed tonight!

[Nachomamma8]

tammy do you know who i would have paranoid thoughts about if i was a paranoid person?

[Nachomamma8]

Fonz is my answer btw

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: sottyrulez

[Nachomamma8]

Q: why didn't you protect our tracker?

Didn't believe the tracker, and protecting the tracker over someone who could stop a kill after death as opposed to someone who could block the kill and pretty much confirm scum didn't really make sense to me, considering yabba being alive over me today would've allowed him to have a tracker result that wouldn't confirm or deny scum whereas Zach being alive over me today would've given him that same shot with the added bonus of more information and a chance to block. You were right where I was in terms of suspecting yabba yesterday, so why is this such a revelation to you? Why would you have protected yabba?

[Nachomamma8]

HOWEVER, Nacho do you realize the pit of paranoia about you you have now put me in. Every single time I start coming up with reasons for why you're town, a little voice in the back of my head goes "Tammy's easy to manipulate". So, not cool Nacho.

Would it make you feel better if I said that I am obvtown at this point? If not, I don't have time at the moment but will set to dispelling your paranoia (despite the paranoid being pretty ridiculous) when time is on my side since I won't be alive for long unless we lynch scum today and I'm usually the most townie when I'm singing my beautiful, beautiful swan songs.

[Nachomamma8]

This has become over-the-top at this point. Nachoscum wouldn't be that short-sighted... but did scum really happen to guess right twice? Really?

Scum only have motivation to shoot at the PRs, no? Either they kill Wicked or they kill me, and that's a win-win. I thought it was a little more obvious that the setup wasn't just Neighborizer-Tracker, so I felt fine not protecting him during the night.

ill elaborate on why dv is town if ne1 desires.

Your case on town-DV would be great, ty.

Okay, deasvail's defense of sotty day two is bothering me.

Immediately after 750, Deas votes Sotty. What do you think of that?

However, Nacho thinks that he can read Deasvail and as they both can't be scum together there is that.

He's not in my not getting lynched townreads, but I don't really want to lynch him today, no. My town core is you, RC, and implosion.

[Nachomamma8]

So you just protecting someone at random over a gut inclination that there was another PR out there?

No. I felt that it was more obvious that I was town based on my role than it was that Wicked was town based on his role.

[Nachomamma8]

RC, what do you think of Fonz? Is the most recent push against him blowing your mind or do you not really mind it that much?

[Nachomamma8]

Yup. Sucks, doesn't it?

[Nachomamma8]

that's a tough pill to swallow nonetheless.

I find it's pretty tough for me to swallow as well. SPB is sort of similarly tough to swallow but when things come down to it I don't really think that he's scum and DV is DV and still probably town.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm here, but not sure what to think yet. I'll read over stuff this weekend, but Tammy, I think my approach as scum would be to take a strong stance one way or the other on Sottyrulez. Having such a weak opinion on them is probably not what I'd do, but I don't know if that helps.

I think you are more townish than the things that bother me, but that was just a concern. I'm not really sure what's been wrong with me this game. I feel like I've second guessed myself more than usual here and it's frustrating, not to mention my struggle with feeling confident about who town is.

me, implosion, dv, rc
those are the town you can believe in

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: The Fonz

[Nachomamma8]

If someone could do something to make me less paranoid of implosion and RC, that would be amazing.

Why are you paranoid of implosion and RC in the first place?

[Nachomamma8]

That's a good post to point out, Tammy.

I'm majorly concerned that if Fonz is town then scum will use it to line up my and Fonz's lynches to get into lylo.

who is the scum who's setting it up?

[Nachomamma8]

that's*

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

vote nacho

lolno. Nacho is fucking town for all the reasons I gave yesterday. No way there's only two PRs.

Vote: Slumberpartybois

I will be away from tomorrow morning until the following Saturday. I will have only phone access and probably not a lot of time for that. I tried to find a temp-replacement but no dice. It's up to the mod what he wants to do, but I'm probably only going to be able to contribute a couple of short posts in the best part of a week. If he decides to replace me, fair enough (

@Mod: if so i'd appreciate a pm to that effect, since last time this happened a few summers ago, I read through about six pages of catchup then got to the part where I was replaced

). If not, I'll be able to resume normal posting next weekend.

I don't think this is how scum decides to leave the game for a week, especially considering the game he's played so far. I expect he'd lay down some groundwork for the future, update his case on SPB, nothing. Just votes so we know where his mind is at and then leaves.

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

can both of you stay in the game?
take a step back and look at it from a different perspective

[Nachomamma8]

I NEVER MEANT TO HURT YOU
I NEVER MEANT TO LIE
SO THIS IS GOODBYEEE

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Purple Lobsta

Illusion of content.

/inb4omgeasylynch

This post is strange for scum pushing a buddy for a couple of reasons: For one, he infers his own push is on an "easy lynch", which is a very awkward way to frame a bus. It kills town cred a lot because framing your target as an easy lynch implies that you don't find them as important to the scum team AND it means that he could be simultaneously defending by giving them an easy avenue to be defended. A *tiny* little bit of digging (sorry Empire, I'm not wasting my time with a full dive) suggests that Fonz frames his distancing pretty strongly: In inbetweeners mafia, when Fonz voted Ree he only did so when he could build a substantial case and when he was already coming under fire (AKA when distancing is actually necessary), meaning it doesn't look like he's a turbobusser. It's also inconsistent with any sort of logical scum strategy to turbo bus one partner and then weakly defend the other who made a dead man walking claim (which is ignoring my personal opinion that defending stall-claims is usually a town tell, considering a good stall claim will probably let your partner live until the next day by the merits of the claim itself while defending your scumpartner will always gain you heat from someone somewhere since you're defending scum.

OK fine.

1. Stating the initial vote was serious. Don't care that it was unexplained at the time, but coming back to the thread and not mentioning it after everyone else basically ignored it makes me wonder how 'serious' it really was.
2. PL is a 'townsperson.' Means newbie, alt, or hydra. (Use of 'our' in first post suggests the latter?) If PL is a newbie, then having played with Tammy before is not noteworthy. If PL is an alt or hydra, ze or they (seriously, can we clear this up in order to make pronoun use easier?) knows full well how to search a user's past games. Therefore, asking for meta fulfills the role of looking like you're doing something useful, whilst a) being unnecessary and b) not giving any actual opinions on what's happening in the game.

So when you are a competent scum player, it's usually completely useless to pull a "oh i don't know whether scumbuddy is hydra or newbie or alt!" out of your ass in order to prevent being tied together. Here, it's doubly useless because he would already be bussing the everloving shit out of them, and triply unlikely thanks to this diamond in the rough:

2. PL is a 'townsperson.' Means newbie, alt, or hydra. (Use of 'our' in first post suggests the latter?) If PL is a newbie, then having played with Tammy before is not noteworthy. If PL is an alt or hydra, ze or they (seriously, can we clear this up in order to make pronoun use easier?) knows full well how to search a user's past games. Therefore, asking for meta fulfills the role of looking like you're doing something useful, whilst a) being unnecessary and b) not giving any actual opinions on what's happening in the game.

#SWAGvote: The Fonz

This specific paragraph is absolutely horrible.

Now who can tell me why?

~ I'll give you Reese's!

The reason that The Fonz's point is horrible is simple. It's hypocritical. The Fonz calls out Purple Lobsta for trying to look town (illusion of content) where they ask Tammy for her games. In that very same post, The Fonz questions whether or not the players are a "hydra" or a single player. To me that information is just as easily found as old games. This point is also reinforced by the fact that The Fonz has been on this site for 6 years. I am sure he knows how to find out if a player is a hydra or not. It takes a little digging.

I agree with the scum reads on Implosion. I did not like his jump onto Purple Lobsta and think their description that he "slithers" onto the wagon is appropriate.

I don't know what this means about Purple Lobsta. I haven't made up my mind about them.

So not only would this particular interaction require new scum to be chainsawing her partner who is bussing the fuck out of her other partner (who she's waffling on), but it would also require Mirari to be mimicking Fonz and attacking his fake "slip", which would be scumbuddy interaction that is actually just too fucking hardcore for me to purchase.

I'm not sure how I feel about Implosion now that he coherently explained his vote after Fonz. I do like his current vote which makes me feel better about him.

~ Join my wagon on Fonz!

It would also require that Fonz hardcore tunnel Purple Lobsta while Mirari hardcore tunnel Fonz and then suddenly apologize to that scumpartner for having an inaccurate case on him and stop the tunnel instead of letting the replacement decide what to do.

OK. To begin with, a minor point of anti-townness, it is never helpful to speculate out loud about the likelihood that someone else is a power role.
It's not easy to understand exactly what you're saying, but I think it boils down to:
A) You think that suggesting you're faking having bad grammar etc is a bad reason to vote someone. I agree.
B) He's attacking people for fluff posting but doing it himself. That's not actually true.
C) You say he's refusing to re-read, he's not talking about himself though. Tammy was telling F-16 to re-read. He's stating that 'Re-read my posts' is an unnecessarily dismissive and antagonistic thing to say. Which is true (generally, if someone's read your posts and what you think is obvious isn't obvious to them, telling them to re-read isn't going to make it obvious) though not really of any scumhunting value (I don't think Tammy being dismissive is alignment-related).
D) You have no basis for asserting 'he looks like he's about to shift the attention.'
E) I kind of agree that it's not realistic to expect players not to ask each other to justify their actions. I don't think this is scummy though, he's just showing frustration at the way the game is being played.
F) You think it's scummy or hypocritical for him to claim to find it scummy that you are posting to say you have no reads. I agree with him that you posting to say you have no read isn't valuable to the town and is just filler. You seem to think that a mafia game is built on 'normal talking' then scumhunting at some arbitrary point when you have 'enough information.' His point is that he believes there was enough information to start scumhunting, and yet you continued with 'normal talking.' He's right and you're wrong. However, the real question is not who's right, it's whether it's reasonable to think you scum for it. I say no.
G) Your reaction to his post three is a Barnum statement (maybe one thing, or maybe the other). It's of no value.
H) There are some grounds for accusing him of hypocrisy. I don't really care though, I don't find this to be a reliable indicator of scum.

Basically, you make some OK points, and some points that are baseless. If you'd done this a page ago, I'd have considered it a town sign because although it's not great analysis, it shows town motive. However, the timing is suspicious. Just as a noticeable wagon is building on Red and other people are expressing suspicion, you choose to do a big analysis on him, and lo and behold this analysis happens to find him to be likely scum. This makes me question your motives.

I find reach-outs to newplayers to be extremely town; normally players get frustrated when they don't think people are listening to him, so Fonz spends some of his time reaching out to someone he thinks is town and boosting their morale a bit. This is pretty much a waste of time if scum; he's not really putting real fuel into a RedCoyote wagon and he's not really doing anything except shooting for towncred if scum, which he's gonna be covered in with after purple becomes red.

I'm willing to let the Slumberparty thing play out.

Good trajectory with a later SPB push; they were someone he had his eyes on early and it doesn't at all surprise me that he finds them scummy after the PL scumflip.

I do agree that Implosion calling you not a scum-read is weird given the strength of his push. But then, he also lists you as the scummiest player in the game. I'm filing that under 'odd' rather than scummy for now, though. Maybe he was just getting frustrated with you.

Not related to Fonz read specifically, but I find that "he's acting scummy based on how he's pushing me!" is a strong as fuck buddy-tell, so this one's getting filed away.

Also, the fake accusations. It is possible ZZZX's entire mafia-playing career to this point was a setup so that we'd mistake him for a town derp in this game, but it's REALLY, REALLY fucking unlikely. You know what looks much more fake? ZZZX is not THAT hard to spell. Three Zs and and X. They've spelt it Zyxxy, Zoxyx, Zyzzy. Despite getting it right the first time they mention him. That looks like they're deliberately trying to create a 'don't give a shit' vibe around themselves in order to look like lazy town. Also, their response to ZZZX's townslip reads like a scum who is afraid of too many players becoming obvtown because they'll run out of mislynches.

The point about SPB spelling a name wrong on purpose is weak as hell and is based on their writing style.

they almost totally ignored the LOBSTA wagon. Like, seriously. Look for anything they say in relation to it. They call you (Implosion) out for your tone in responding to Ms M saying she didn't want to claim, and push the DV counterwagon.

This is probably the best reason for finding SPB scum but I don't think it's good enough.

also nacho, can you please explain why you are more confident in DV and RC town than Implosion-town?

I wasn't until recently, strangely enough.

[Nachomamma8]

Things I noticed while chatting about Fonz:

Zoidy likes Implosion scum because he thinks he's just jumping on an easy band-wagon without a second thought, and for following logic that's clearly a misrepresentation for us AND calling it good without really checking on it's merits

PL's push on implosion lasted for the entire day. It was a push that never really gained much traction from my understanding of it, and was a push that Purple kept up until the last minute DV wagon (and even the vote there took some serious pushing). Meanwhile, Implosion spent most of his time on RedCoyote AND DeasVail, but didn't actually end up dancing with PL for that long despite their incredibly convinced and irrational push on them (contrast this with Fonz, who stuck on PL the entire day and stepped up his conviction with the "Fonz is framing me" or whatever the hell the case was).

Next, my use of nightkill analysis is usually very limited and based on things that are very subtle; it's usually easy to rule out people as scum or town based on the nightkills they make. For example, I will never kill someone for a "no information nightkill" as scum because those are fucking stupid. F-16's nightkill looked ridiculously strange to me, not because he's a bad player or anything but because there were so many other pertinent threats hanging out all over the place. His reads also weren't that good (he thought PL and mirari were both town for a while), and he was easily mislynchable. He certainly wasn't a meta threat to a lot of players here who have a few meta threats (DeasVail wouldn't want to kill him, Tammy wouldn't want to kill him, SPB wouldn't want to kill him). Odd hiccup comes here:

Another thought, I can't help but feel Yabba and implosion are scum. Implosion defends me and then Yabba calls it chainsaw. It seems like he wants to implicate me in case implosion flips scum. The other thing is that when Yabba called my questions meaningless before and voted Purple, implosion attacks Yabba for doing so, and THEN VOTES PURPLE.

Implosion meta still suggests town though so I am not sure.

F-16 just called implosion his strongest townread and then immediately started doubting it, waffles back and forth on it for the rest of the game. If we assume that scum wasn't just PR hunting (I looked through his posts a few times now and have found nothing that even marginally LOOKS like a PR tell), then the paranoia on implosion is the closest thing I can find to a reason for killing him.

I also find F-16's death as a decent counterpoint to SPB's response to ZZZX's slip; if he was worried about drowning in all of the obvtowns, somehow I don't think he would fuck up so bad where he forgot to kill an obvtown N1. It's not a bad kill to eliminate someone who isn't drinking the koolaid, though.

[Nachomamma8]

(speaking of which, I'm drinking Mixaid! I didn't put enough sugar in it but it'll have to do.)

[Nachomamma8]

might as well do a lil' bit of wagon analysis since I'm doing weird analysis

Day 1, Votecount 9

RedCoyote (3)

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Tammy, implosion, pandashnoo

PURPLE LOBSTA (1)

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The Fonz

ZZZX (1)

-

RedCoyote

implosion (1)

-

PURPLE LOBSTA

yabbaguy (1)

-

Wickedestjr

The Fonz (1)

-

Mirari

SlumberPartyBois (1)

-

F-16 Fighting Falcon

Wickedestjr (1)

-

SlumberPartyBois

Not Voting (3)

-

DeasVail, ZZZX, yabbaguy

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on July 23rd at 10:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-07-23 22:30:00)

Mod Notes

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N/A

Day 1, Votecount 17

RedCoyote (4)

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Tammy, pandashnoo, ZZZX, Zachrulez

PURPLE LOBSTA (3)

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The Fonz, DeasVail, implosion

implosion (2)

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PURPLE LOBSTA, RedCoyote

yabbaguy (1)

-

F-16 Fighting Falcon

pandashnoo (1)

-

yabbaguy

Zachrulez (1)

-

Wickedestjr

Wickedestjr (1)

-

SlumberPartyBois

Not Voting (0)

-

N/A

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on July 23rd at 10:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-07-23 22:30:00)

Mod Notes

-

N/A

Day 1, Votecount 25

PURPLE LOBSTA (5)

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implosion, yabbaguy, Wickedestjr, RedCoyote, sottyrulez

DeasVail (2)

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SlumberPartyBois, Tammy

RedCoyote (2)

-

pandashnoo, ZZZX

yabbaguy (2)

-

F-16 Fighting Falcon, PURPLE LOBSTA

Wickedestjr (1)

-

The Fonz

Not Voting (1)

-

DeasVail

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on July 23rd at 10:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-07-23 22:30:00)

Mod Notes

-

Wickedestjr is V/LA from Monday to Friday, pandashnoo is V/LA until Wednesday.

The first two quotes are 5 days apart, the second and the third are 4, meaning the whole process took something like 9 days. These three votecounts include everyone who was on the RC wagon on Day 1. If implosion is town, it means that for 5 days scum did not budge an inch in order to hope onto a different counterwagon in order to save their buddy with the possible exception of RC onto the implosion wagon, which is pretty fucking weird considering he would have had to follow his buddy onto their instead of reinforcing a wagon with townie support. And while reading through implosion's hop off RC and onto PL, found something else interesting:

I'd like justification for this; are you saying this because you consider PL and yourself to be public enemy numbers 1 and 2, in some way? Do you just think that having scumreads on the two of you is bad, or is there also an element of you thinking that having those reads is inherently lazy?

There is clearly going to be more than one scum player in this game. If someone is comfortable, at this stage in the game, to say they only have one scumread in me or PL or they only suspect me and PL, then I consider that to be lackluster. Not good enough. Compare and contrast you with Tammy, for instance. Tammy has fought at F-16, suspected yabba, generally went through the rigmarole associated with scumhunting. That's why my vote is not on her.

I think it is strange that implosion had PL and RC as both viable scumreads because it would be optimal for scum to either be voting A) counterwagon to the buddy, or B) buddy for towncred. The fact that implosion had open avenues for both is actually pretty scummy.

I really don't want to scumread PL (or at least I'm trying to be hesitant to scumread them because we're arguing a lot, which clouds vision to some extent) but ugh, the sheer amount of stuff coming out of that slot that just does not make any sense from town is enough already.

I'll come up with opinions on red and wicked later today.

I don't like that implosion's switch onto PL comes so awkwardly (I don't want to scumread them because we're arguing a lot but argh), and I don't like that he needs to come up with an opinion on red who he was voting for a while before this point; it makes more sense for him to get the townread on Red before switching as opposed to the other way around.

First of all, I've committed very strongly to townreads on Tammy and F-16. I believe you'd see it's consistent with my meta that I'm typically more confident in townreads than scumreads if you looked.

ok this is bullshit? having a strong townread on TAMMY doesn't count worth shit and if your only good townread is F-16 who you are using to attack other players then meta or not, you're being a waffling fuck.

Vote: Redcoyote

Rolfcopter replaced out without a single post and has remained active on the site. Rolfcopter is also notorious for hating scum.

and right after implosion takes his vote off RC, Zach rolls in and puts a vote right back on with a meta argument! He then does something pretty interesting:

I followed along with the game earlier on, but kinda stopped paying attention several pages back. At that point I was thinking purple lobster scum as well.

Don't like implosion sheeping Tammy. It's way off the baseline of what I saw of his town play in another game. Might be grasping at meta straws there though.

It would be weird for him to soft-distance both of his partners in this post, but I also notice that he's scumreading both major wagons like implosion is AND he gives himself a meta-out on implosion that he doesn't give himself on RedCoyote, which is something from note. There's no real reason to do this if implosion is town.

[Nachomamma8]

also nacho, can you please explain why you are more confident in DV and RC town than Implosion-town?

I forgot to explicitly answer this, let me do it now:
In short, I have more experience with DV and RC. The way I distinguish between strengths of townreads is how much experience I have with said townreads; I've had strong townreads like this on RC before and have a pretty good idea of how he functions as town and scum, so that's why I'm willing to glare at Tammy when she calls him scum. I have experience with DV that hasn't been put to practice yet (my experience with him is being scum with him), but I'm decently confident that I know the way he works and can call him town here. Implosion, I don't have the same experience and aren't half as confident that I can read him like I can those two.

I think I've done enough legwork for today.

Vote: implosion

I'll likely do an ISO into him next, but I have a pretty good idea of what I liked and didn't like in his play.

[Nachomamma8]

i questioned it because it was weird as fuck but I don't really find it as scummy. there's no reason for SPB to tell Fonz to reanalyze SPB being scum when momentum is clearly against Fonz in the SPB/Fonz clash but a stupid townie fight is one way scum can make some serious ground so the paranoia was normal from that perspective.

[Nachomamma8]

Implosion is there a reason you ignored Tammy/me and our talk on Fonztown? Because if it was laziness I'm probably going to ignore that response to me and just keep voting you.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean if you're pushing on me you certainly aren't going to be able to convince me that fonz is town without some damn good arguments

This shouldn't be the case.

[Nachomamma8]

that I want you to present some alternative lynch that's viable from my perspective?

Here's the problem. My case on town-Fonz is good enough for you to trust if I make a significant push on someone else, but it isn't good enough for you to look into scum suspects that aren't him. So, essentially, if I can present a case and bring someone else for the mislynch, you'll be there. But if not, you'll stay on what seems most viable right now.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you have a case on Fonz or is it all associative?

[Nachomamma8]

Fonz's play specifically. I feel like I could make a case based on associative tells on most people in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

well yeah, but associations are pretty easy to manipulate in the scheme of things

[Nachomamma8]

and if you could do it, let's see your case on fonz play with no associative tells.

[Nachomamma8]

implosion

[Nachomamma8]

all i'm asking you to do is approach the fonz case from a different angle, maybe look into dv and rc a bit and do some legwork on your own. i think it is suspicious that as soon as people start defending fonz and attacking you you go from passive mode to "hey, fonz is almost certainly scum". prove to me this is a coincidence, i don't care how you do it. i'm not particularly interested in your current case (HINT HINT). it is far more useful to take yourself out of the lynching pool than it is to get someone lynched and probably get lynched tomorrow, so take yourself out of the lynching pool. this "everything is easily manipulated, i can't make an honest case on fonz without associative tells" is not what i want. you know what i want.

[Nachomamma8]

implosion's pointing out PL's post 114... that post is money from a scumhunting perspective.

Mmm...

VOTE: The Fonz

That's all you got for me RC?

[Nachomamma8]

i was gonna post here but i want other people's input first

[Nachomamma8]

I'm just having a hard time giving up my strong town read here.

Why do you think he's town?

[Nachomamma8]

Look, we've still got time, but I think you are discrediting associative tells when you really ought not.

I'm not discrediting them at all. I'm discrediting a case based on associative tells making implosion town because while there are some awkward interactions, they absolutely don't work together that well as a scumteam and I don't really think Fonz is scum. If any other player was in his slot at the moment, we wouldn't be lynching him. But because it's Fonz there's suddenly a case? Umm, no.

[Nachomamma8]

It'd be mildly strange if, in a vaguely opening-post like this, PL neglected to mention either of their scumpartners. Guess what four people that they mentioned have all flipped town... there's also tammy sorta but we all know she's town.

In a later post, after you asked her to explain, she felt obligated to add you into her "scum candidate" category... So as far as people she pushed on early goes, you're included in that list as well if you somehow manage to lynch town-Fonz.

I think the fact that it was a very specific point (and that it's the only point mirari ever gave against Fonz) would make a little more sense as a bus. I don't think it'd be natural for scum to tunnel a townie on something that they know can be so easily (and accurately, since they are town) refuted by said townie. It would make more sense to use against scum because either they'll be able to easily counteract it, or it's the kind of vote that mirari would later be able to easily drop (since it's only on one point) in favor of pursuing some other wagon, yet still get towncred in the eventuality that Fonz flips scum.

It was also the only point Mirari gave in game other than "I don't think he's providing as much content as he thinks he is" and "I don't like the way he plays", which tells me that Mirari isn't really that good with coming up with fake reasons in the first place. Do you really think that Mirari would be able to separate the difference between "oh this is a reason I can attack a buddy with because they won't refute it" versus "and this is a reason I can attack a townie with"? Hell no. Do you think that Mirari would be concerned by scumbuddies distancing with each other to the point where chainsawing against one buddy would be something they would think of? Again, no.

If Fonz is scum: this makes a lot of sense as PL semi-subtly saying "hey, stop pushing me, there are better things to do." The way it's phrased would also be congruous with this, because it's completely ignoring the question of Fonz's own alignment.

If Fonz is town: then it's a genuine case of "i-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about." It seems like it's a bit more frantic then I'd expect in that case.

The scum scenario suggests Fonz didn't coach, meaning Mirari decided to deathtunnel Fonz and chainsaw PL for apparently no reason at all. "A bit more frantic than what I'd expect in that case" is weak as hell.

The point is to make a comparison between the way PL treats me and the way they treat Fonz. It feels like they almost went out of their way to never explicitly call Fonz scum - they constantly maraud his case as being wrong, fabricated, and illiterate. Yet, they never call him scum. Purple Lobsta makes points of Fonz's push on them being bad and my jump onto Fonz's push being bad; they then downplay the first point and up-play the second.

I don't think PL as scum would want to call Fonz-town scum. He's a strong town player, he's a threat in that sense: as a result, their goal is to discredit him since there's no way in hell they are going to mislynch him.

The way in which Mirari is explicitly indecisive about PL is interesting in retrospect. Frankly i think this post should make me look more like town - it'd be unnatural for mirari to jump onto me while simultaneously remaining so ambivalent on PL this way.

So you think that Mirari saying that she agrees with the scumreads on you makes you look more like town because she was ambivalent on PL, but her hard attack on Fonz immediately after his attack on PL doesn't make him look more town...?

[Nachomamma8]

And I don't think you ever said what you thought about Mirari's replace out. Why would Mirari apologize to a scumbuddy for their push on him?

[Nachomamma8]

Okay.

That's a completely different post. It isn't the post that I'm talking about. Regardless of the existence of that later post, the post I was talking about still exists, and that point still exists with respect to that post - her having said different things later does not change that post.

I'm talking about this completely different post. It's pretty good ammo against you when Fonz flips town, don't you think?

I don't think he would consciously differentiate between those reasons, no, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be more likely to use different kinds of arguments against different people depending on their alignment.

And I'm saying he had trouble coming up with one argument, meaning that it's not that surprising that the first thing he comes up with is an easily verifiable lie, ESPECIALLY since he has the inside info of realizing that LOBSTA was a hydra.

As I said, his vote on fonz was made in such a way that he could have easily jumped off.

Maybe. He never did though and I find that pretty significant.

i don't think they'd be the type to avoid pressuring a townie just because that townie is thought of as being strong.

It's a disincentive to pressure a townie no matter who the hell you are.

You're entirely missing my point. He had given the read on fonz a long time ago - the read on me and the active ambivalence towards PL were both new and simultaneous.

Active ambivalence was started when Mirari began chainsawing the lobsta without giving a read on them. I suppose you do have a point in that it was weird that you two were mentioned at the same time, though.

Did mirari apologize specifically to Fonz? I thought mirari just apologized for replacing out. Which is standard.

I am sorry for going after Fonz given my unfamiliarity with procedures surrounding hydra alts.

[Nachomamma8]

So PL either had to consciously group 5 town together, or they had to consciously group 4 town and 1 buddy together.

Marangal is perfectly familiar with listing.

[Nachomamma8]

acho, any way we turn, we're going to have to lynch someone that we've had a documented townread on at some point.

and so we're lynching Fonz because his name was in a group of 5 names?
are you kidding me?

[Nachomamma8]

i guess i could post some things in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm just having a hard time giving up my strong town read here.

Why do you think he's town?

I don't really know. It was largely a gut feeling early on and one that I might have been overcompensating for. In mafia.raptured I was convinced he was scum but he wasn't. I might just be being stubborn over giving up a town read when all game long I've had a hard time finding them but haven't really worried about implosion.

you can give me a little bit more than this

I started responding to nacho but then i got bored and realized that it wasn't going to accomplish anything. Mostly i got bored.

what do you think of Mirari apologizing to Fonz for his case on him?

But gods has Matt just been downright hostile to people this game.

and this doesn't really reflect his scum play, does it?

[Nachomamma8]

and if fonz flips town, then does the post i quoted come into play?

[Nachomamma8]

tammy stop

[Nachomamma8]

drop

[Nachomamma8]

and vote the HELL out of implosion

[Nachomamma8]

I just really don't know what to think right now.

you still trust i'm town, right?
let me borrow your vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm getting situated in a new place, I'll tell kanye to get on for a bit

i'm waiting for you guys to come talk to me again

[Nachomamma8]

nacho i don't think that mirari apologizing to fonz in that way is a towntell for fonz; I think mirari was genuinely apologizing for pushing based on something that she had misunderstood about MS, which is reasonable towards town or scum.

i disagree!

if you were reading my play (and the play of flipped scum) in a vacuum, outside of the context of "there is only one scum left and i think everyone but implosion is town" what would your read on me be?

depends on who my other scum candidates were.

like for reals tho, i think nacho is just playing a stellar scum game here and i really respect him 4 coming into such a bunk slot and pulling this magic if its true. expect postgame gushing regardless of the outcome if nachoscum.

it wouldn't be an impressive scumgame, it'd be a shit balanced game and a lucky as fuck claim.
which is why your scumread makes me sad.

plus, hell, maybe there is a subtext there of me wanting nacho to townread me. Hint hint, i as town want nacho to townread me.

this probably isn't the way to do it.

@Tammy, Nacho, and Deas: relative scumminess rankings of SPB, Red, and Implosion, if you wouldn't mind. I'm convinced I don't want to lynch Deas until endgame. I'm pretty sure Imp is the worst lynch of those three though, and will only support it to save my own life.

Implosion --> SPB --> Red.

I have made my stand. I am not going to be satisfied until I can satisfy my curiosity over PL's list.

this seems pretty awesomely town.

[Nachomamma8]

i might be ok with a fonz lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: The Fonz

implosion has pushed Fonz in a way that doesn't leave much wiggle room if Fonz flips town. Fonz on the other hand has lots of wiggle room everywhere, has more people that have to reanalyze and do things again if he flips town and is pretty much framing the future as we speak past SPB (which doesn't really make that much sense considering his conviction on SPB), so I'm taking things into my own hands so tammy doesn't have a nervous breakdown.

[Nachomamma8]

tammy doesn't have a nervous breakdown.

just kidding, don't hate me
<3

[Nachomamma8]

i almost horribly horribly fucked this up.
glad i didn't!