Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[farside22]

Your going to think I'm nuts.

I already do.

Meta on pops scum is that he tends to bus his scum buddy if there in trouble. He doesn't go out of his way to defend his buddy. Cd's behavior not only would have been easy to bus, but defend....it literally is senseless.
It's like sitting yourself together once one flips scum and pops is definitely more old school scum the crazy.

Given pops very weak cases and staying off cd over Drew maybe to look as scum together just to stay off the wagon.

Now as for why I'm voting pops, the most recent post from both him and cd give me pause and rethink my scum team a bit more.

[farside22]

Is pops the one with the shitty beck case yesterday? I could be tempted with him but let's see what the replacement has to say. That replace out was bad timing

Yup.

[farside22]

@red:
Here is the post you state a town read on cooldog

RC/pops, what are your thoughts on cooldog and cyberbob? Would you vote either of them as a counter wagon to reinoe?

Absolutely not. I have them both as townreads.

Drew is an acceptable counterwagon. I have offered reinoe a chance to join with me in voting him and I stand by that.

You dodged my earlier question. You say on Page 31 that you will "Absolutely not" vote cooldog. You have him as a "townread"...not lean town, but town read.

Then you vote him a few pages later.

What was so condemning that he went from an "Absolutely not" person to vote for, a complete "townread", to the wagon you hopped on?

Fuck it. If I am lynched, I get lynched. I agree with RC that the game is a team game and we have to work together, but he's simply looking to mislynch and I'm not going to be party to it.

UNVOTE: Cooldog
VOTE: RC

Sorry to quote this but the link was a long post and my poor phone can't take it.
It was the question asked repeatedly on day 1 to you.

Which is simple why does renioe's claim, change your vote to cooldog?

[farside22]

lol ok

To be honest I almost didn't want to replace it when I saw I was replacing CoolDog since I figured if anyone replaces out because of being scum, it would be him. But Russian Roulette worked out yet again so that's cool I guess.

In any case, why wasn't CD lynched? Who spearheaded the drew lynch instead?

Drew lynch.....tbh I don't remember. I recall cooldog had an issue with Drew from pages ago where Drew made a case on RC, but switched votes to his other scum read after a long case.
Also RC claimed bodyguard.

[farside22]

Oh and cyber bob had a metaish read on cool that had bob reading cool as nullish instead of scummy.
Currently votes are on iai and pops.

Pops case is more based on his weak reasoning for his votes on players. Why he voted Drew and his strange reasoning on why cool is nullish. I quoted maybe a page ago pops vote and reason for voting Drew.
He's also using terminology scum terms instead of really explaining his scum read (I can give examples of this when i get out of work).

[farside22]

Also, guess scum are pretty set with two town PRs (eh, is a neighbor reeeaally a PR?) dead and another claimed one. Solid play guys. lol.

I'm confused by this statement.
I get the neighbor thought process but what do you mean another claimed pr?

[farside22]

Ohhhhh.
Brain fart.

[farside22]

I think farside's concerns may be valid in the sense that I may have gotten some confirmation bias after explaining my nullread on cooldog. It's not anything worth feeling that strongly about, I just felt I had to make the most responsible choice I could between Drew and Cooldog, and it was really pretty close for me.

Cooldog replace out looked really bad, and that's reason enough for him to be lynchable today. Especially the way he explained it, since he contributed fine day one.

Thank you mr. I'm sticking with my weak ass vote on Drew for shit reason and not voting the I have null read on other player, but would lynch others.

Dear lord I need to get to my computer to explain that one.


Hold in.

Damn phone posting suck.

Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

This and this

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

And finally this

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Is me calling pops a liar and see's his current stance as crap.

[farside22]

People always seem to have trouble understanding my cases. I never get why.

[farside22]

Cd: read pops 1254 and the read this this which is many time of pops justifying his vote and reasoning. He didn't think cool was scum at all and now it was a vote of the lesser of two evils.
That doesn't add up.

[farside22]

People always seem to have trouble understanding my cases. I never get why.

I don't understand things my wife say either so maybe it's a guy thing

My husband say that sarcasm is my first language.

[farside22]

It isn't your sarcasm and it isn't you being a woman, I genuinely can't parse some of your sentences and trains of thought. Like this section from 1265 in particular:

Meta on pops scum is that he tends to bus his scum buddy if there in trouble. He doesn't go out of his way to defend his buddy. Cd's behavior not only would have been easy to bus, but defend....it literally is senseless.
It's like sitting yourself together once one flips scum and pops is definitely more old school scum the crazy.

Given pops very weak cases and staying off cd over Drew maybe to look as scum together just to stay off the wagon.

The first two sentences are obviously pretty basic but everything after that is proving a very tough nut to crack.

How old school is your scum game?
I think it was grey ice who called me textbook scum in a game.

What I see most times from scum behavior, more old school is light bussing and never defending.
Pops as scum not finding cooldog scum for null reason's is a typical set up I've seen in the past. It is tying yourself to a player so if you flip scum people think to look at who you defend a bit more.
Now a days I still see that used by players. Scum tend to stay away from defending because it's the first thing people look at instead of overall play.
With cooldog's behavior this game, which let's face it, was shit. His case, attitude, lack of drive. There is much you can look at and he is either the perfect patsy or he 's scum.
Pops behavior towards cool made no sense as far as rationale goes. If cooldog was scum with pops it would be a certain time you would see a move to bus. That never occurred and he instead votes Drew for pretty mindless shit.
Most, as Skrew pointed out, would think scum defending scum buddy, but old school meta is bus and tie oneself to a bad town.
As grey ice said. Textbook scum behavior 101.

[farside22]

It doesn't hurt that I took a moment to look into cooldog's play style yesterday and note he is a bit more slick and smooth as scum and more of an ass when he 'a town.

[farside22]

Thanks for restating it, I totally understand what you're saying now. It wasn't the concepts so much as it was the actual English sentences themselves that I couldn't follow. I have no issue with the scum meta you're using, but remind me again why I also had CD as more of a null read + voted Drew yet you don't appear to suspect me for it in the same way you're going after pops?

Your stubborn!

In all seriousness you have expressed your views more openly.
If I can get to examples later tonight about what I see from you vs pops I think it would be more clear.

[farside22]

I'm more interested for now in your thoughts on IAI, as far as I can tell you haven't really touched on his case thus far today.

Can you link the case you have on iai? I recall red and Dess case is highly suspect as it is based on iai calling out those in the wagons. Mind you the reason dess found iai scummy before that was said so why dess is scum reading iai prior to that has been left unawnsered.

[farside22]

Sorry that was written poorly.
Dess finds iai scummy for the looking at those on the wagons comment, but dess stated a scum read on iai prior to that comment and he has yet to say why he was scum reading iai prior to that comment.

[farside22]

Do you know how many times those dead townies received my vote? ZERO.

You don't say?

Vote: I Am Innocent

Hi Bob, how predictable.

I notice you on both those wagons, huh? Very curious...

You've been dropping all these "clever and mysterious" little hints about how you think I'm so scummy for some time now, why don't you get your suspicion of me in writing (so to speak) and put a vote down? Are you scared of being seen to start a wagon?

CD mentioned IAI all of two times yesterday despite IAI throwing all sorts of accusations and votes his way. Not wanting to react too hard to a bus?

Why not? IAI provided his own scumtell in his attempt to show off how strangely accurate his voting pattern was yesterday and since he was voting for CD at the end of the day I had the idea of checking up on their interactions with each other.

Ah you have cd and iai tied together.
And iai being suspicious of you but not pushing his point on you.

Let me check something about that.

Ebwop: yea. I'll be frank I don't get that thinking at all. I have had a number of people be suspicious when I push a case on a player that flips town. It should be a null tell.
I thought iai was suspicious prior to the Drew flip but I need to recheck that.

[farside22]

Oh cyber: I'd like your thought on pops overall.

[farside22]

Okay I'm half way with my ISO of iai

here
I need to get work done but most of the post is tying cooldog and cyber bob as scum together.

I'm leaving this alone for now and will finish it after work. Just needed a place to put it.

[farside22]

Well it was more the thing about weirdly touting himself as super town for having avoided

both

wagons than the stuff about calling me scum over the Drew wagon (I threw that in there because it's funny)

I'm about to go to bed but I'll try and give my thoughts on pops tomorrow after work.

Alright I'll finish my analist tonight.
I feel my eyes glazing over between computer work and looking at the tiny phone keyboards and print on my phone.

[farside22]

Sooo...process of elimination ready go? Bob and farside are pretty obviously town. Probably Beck, too, but don't want to speak too quickly.

I need more discussion to engage in now that I'm here.

Are you going to read through the game? Do you work better with interaction?
With iai and goofy not around how do you feel you will get anything there?

[farside22]

Let's just quote this one more

Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

This reasoning reads as I have no real reason to vote Drew but I'll use this defense as a scum tell that's not a scum tell to justify my vote.
Not a lesser of two evil comment.

Example: 2 days left of deadline and instead of pushing another case (which happened that day) you just were meh whatever which doesn't read as a player trying to make an effort.

Then we have deadline.

With the bodyguard claim I think the best thing to do is to let RC live. The most powerful use for the role is if a scummy townie gets it, and dives in front of an obvtown townie, thus killing a scummy townie instead of an obvtownie and making PoE easier. Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.

Unvote

If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.


IAI made a terribly scummy post when he said that he thinks RC is scum, thinks exactly one of {RC, cooldog} is scum, and voted cooldog. It's not internally consistent at all for him to do that. He should be on Drew if that's actually the way he feels, but I think he's faking his reads.
I don't think there's time for an IAI lynch though.

Vote: Drew

If this causes a third claim, it's not that bad a drawback at this point, the scum can't shoot multiple PRS in one night. And hey, we might have a bodyguard. Of course, the main reason for my preference is I think Cooldog is less likely to flip scum.

This makes no sense.
Why if iai has one one rc/cool as scum does his vote on cool read poorly?
Also iai explained his town read of Drew, which was based on Drew agreeing with iai about rc's action.

[farside22]

You know what I typically see from players that are town that compromise a lynch, it typically occurs a day or hours before deadline, unless you expect to be gone when deadline hits. That was not the case with the vote on Drew the first time

[farside22]

Well it was more the thing about weirdly touting himself as super town for having avoided

both

wagons than the stuff about calling me scum over the Drew wagon (I threw that in there because it's funny)

I'm about to go to bed but I'll try and give my thoughts on pops tomorrow after work.

Alright so in reviewing his post.
Iai seemed to have a pretty strong scum read on you and cool most of day 1. Rc entered as a scum reads it later.
Most of what I see as far as what you didn't like was his touting of himself on neither wagon, which is not a town tell.
I noted in one of his post he was looking at votes prior to end of day and the vote switches.
This is all pretty null. As I said to dess, people tend to look at vote count analysis for scum hunting purposes. I think the boasting is null. I see it as a bit arrogant, but then again my scum read on cool was and to find scum with him (yea I know not the best method but it's a hard habit to break). If for the sake of argument cool was scum the logic of iai's comment is faulty.

[farside22]

Just an added. You have to think the arrogance is scum scum with iai's comment. In other words you believe cooldog(now singer) is scum with iai for his comment to be accurate.
But iai did question cool and he thought one of rc/cool was scum. He pushed more to get reads from others about what they thought of cool, which was why when rc stated cool was town read and then voted for cool after renioe's claim, the change of vote from remakes no sense.
Hence the two player gang up onRC.
I think rc is the bg based on his reaction to iai's doc comment

[farside22]

If it makes you feel better, I probably would've said it about cyberbob too despite the fact that I've never seen him do it.

It was more to comment on the fact that I was worries about replacing into a scum slot since I hate being scum and tend to crumble under pressure, and that if I had to guess any player to replace out of a scum slot, it would be him? I dunno, that's pretty much just it.

I'm guessing it was something to do with something something I pulled something out of no where that didn't have any reason to be commented on and seemed more like trying to get town cred or something?

My head hurts.

@farside: oh, I didn't get what you meant. At the end of D1 I didn't like IAI's posting, I made a post about it. It was mostly about his stance on the Drew wagon, I even said in the PT that I should have looked into it with the flip in mind (I haven't, though.) Someone (RC?) said that he was a scumread of his, regardless of the flip, so I took, that from that point of view, he wasn't very townish at least. And then he made his posts of D2. I hope I answered all your questions.
Mentioning pops...

More confusion. Drew flipped town so how does iai still look scummy? I'm just not sure where your coming from.

I really don't get the X found player scummy and I went with that mentality.

[farside22]

@farside: 1. I haven't revisited the end of D1. 2. If a townread of mine says it's scummy, I at least excet that it wasn't townish, and since his play on D2 has been scummy, it's just enough for me now.
@IAI: in point 3 you indirectly claim that it is townish to go for the low-hanging fruit. And such things are what I call BS. I'd answer something similar to the question you asked RC: scum-IAI would just push an RC lynch then pull a crafted argument out of his ass to explain why it wasn't scummy.
@singer: he said he'd attemoted to BG reinoe.

What about iai is scummy.


Singer you should be on pops wagon.


Rc: who is scum with iai in your view and why?

Iai: your wifom question is pretty ridiculous.

[farside22]

I also laughed at iai 5 points of scum 101 for 3-5 is done by town theses days.
Sad but true.

[farside22]

I don't understand that lat post.

Re: bob town...dunno, just feel like he is. Brief town meta says gut, though so scum meta to compare it to.

Probs gunna vote IAI

Why?

[farside22]

Iai posted a 1-5 scum tell post. I was saying I've seen town do 3-5.

You typically just go with gut and have little to explain?

[farside22]

IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

Yet you unvoted him because you like his response and barely said anything about skrew's
Fun.


@singer: I'm looking for this player who says more the gut as a response.

[farside22]

Iai posted a 1-5 scum tell post. I was saying I've seen town do 3-5.

You typically just go with gut and have little to explain?

Congratulations, you successfully linked a post I have copy/pasted several times as a reference to people who have never played before and need to learn how...what makes you think I'm not following my own advice now?

Not usually a "gut" player, if you will, but figured I'd try it out until I have more to go on. I'm not very aggressive in my scum hunting if that's what you're getting at/want. At least people are posting more?

Tell me, if CD was so scummy D1, and people are throwing my name out there as being scummy still, why IAI or pops instead?

I was referring to your entire play in game, it was an ISO thing.
Did you want me to reference other games and do more of a search?

I did note another game I looked into your not aggressive but look to town hunt a bit and question things.

Well I can't speak for everyone. But my view pops is scum. He unvoted iai like his response and is talking of voting for him with vague reasoning. I'd put money that beck is scum with pops based on the weak push from pops day 1 and Beck's comment about the weak case pops brought up on him but does not vote pops.
Pretty much scummy stuff there.
As for why not you, well sure you could be scum with beck for calling him town on pretty null crap.
You want to be lazy and not play the game then why did you agree to replace?

No votes have changed

Day 2 Vote Count

I Am Innocent (3) - RedCoyote, Cyberbob, Dessew
popsofctown (2) - farside22, SleepyKrew
singersigner (1) - Beck
Cyberbob (1) - I Am Innocent

Not voting (3) - Goofyd00d, popsofctown, singersinger

Searching for replacement for Beck

Prodding Cyberbob

With 10 alive its 6 to lynch

Day 2 Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-23 18:30:00)

Cancel the prod on cool, he is not in the game.

[farside22]

Rc: saw the case.
It is time to lay out my pops case shortly.

[farside22]

@SKrew: most people would not react quite the way you did to reinoe's behavior, that's what I meant by personal. Not personal as in "you deliberately rubbed ketchup on my favorite sweater, now it's personal", but personal as in personality, I don't think most people would get upset and interpret reinoe as actively trying to prolong RVS stage to fog the air, I think most would just find it funny.
Thus it was unlikely Konowa had the same reaction.

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta. Even in a game that's somewhat dense, I expect more to resonate when I read his posts.

I tend to hate hate hate "punish people for posting" strategies, they are not protown at all. Not voting Konowa because he hasn't said enough to fill up the evidence room yet means redirecting attention to players who are active enough that we can read them better in subsequent days. The trend can discourage town aggregate post counts too, which is bad.

Konowa has enough scumminess per post density to outweigh most other verbose players anyway.


@farside22: it would be protown to ignore the "what does RVS mean" question if goofy thought it was not useful and would create more distraction than good. Once sleepykrew starts spamming the question to get a response, it becomes antitown to refuse to answer, any answer would shut him up and clear the game. goofy's refusal to answer is scummy to me for that reason, it seems like he is more concerned about the risk of a little exposure of his own posting than he is about letting the thread get on with things.
I don't think the results of the question would have been alignment indicative, but skrew seems to think so, so he might as well have humored him.

Pop started out by adding fluff to his posts maybe in some lighthearted attempt to lighten up the start of the game, or maybe to add more perceived content. Since then Pop hasn't contributed a lot of personal reads, rather than a line here or there about the current conversation, and a tunnel on someone who has posted 4 times rather than looking elsewhere while you wait for them to post seems like you either stick to your guns and ignore the rest of the scum(poor town play), or you legitimately think that you can get the target mislynched(scum). I'd like to see your reaction to this thought and how you

I just wanted to get people talking about a lynch with strong merits instead of discussing sleepykrew and reinoe's blind pillowfightings. It seemed like a better catalyst for the development of the daygame. I felt seeing people's reactions to that sort of wagon had more value. RC's lackluster response to the topic has cast much more doubt on him than which of his favorite pillows he roots for, for instance

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta.

I have yet to play with Red, care sharing the points of his meta you are referring to here?

He usually makes a couple keen observations. He doesn't necessarily crack the whole lobster open and pick the scummeat out day one, but he'll ask a question that seems wise to ask, or be proactive in some other way.
He and IAI are fighting for second place on my list right now.

When I read Beck post "If this game is 18 pages of reinoe and SK fighting I'm going to lose motivation", it resonated a little bit. I've had trouble digging into this game, and that's a big part of why. The spat between the two of them has gone a long, long, time. I've seen pretty big town on town spats. But I've never seen such a protracted one of this, that goes on and on.

At first I thought neither was scum, but the amount of filth they have filled the thread with has left me doubtful. There'd be more mutual interest in letting things drop for a moment for the good of the town.

I've had a gut town read on reinoe for a long time due to his carefree nature, but a null read on sleepy. Belligerence is cloudy to me. My gut doesn't tell me much about him, but my head realizes that there is a defensive component to his nagging, repetitive, cyclical desire to be right and to be identified as the "victor" of the engagement with reinoe, which has survivalist qualities to it. Reinoe doesn't seem to care as much, at least to me.

Vote: SleepyKrew

I was trying to be abundantly clear that I had made a change in stance. SK vs. reinoe is clogging the productivity of this thread and it's exploded to such ridiculous levels that I'm interpreting it differently now.

It's not even realistic to try to do real scumhunting on RC or IAI until the tumor is excised. RC has improved a little bit, so that's less exciting, and IAI hasn't posted that much, and apparently based on Konowa's amazingly popular lurkerscum playstyle I've learned that if you keep your post count low enough you have lynchproof power role.

IAI is probably a bit scummier and RC has drawn to about even but I'd really like to improve the dynamic of the day game here by getting half the pair out of the game.

Maybe I should wait a night and hope we have a vig, idk

Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy. Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability. If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

Yea I took a moment to find this:

farside's interpretations of this game are completely bonkers. I want to hold to the idea that she's just really far out there, but it is growing increasingly hard to do that. I'm glad you agree at least that the case is bad because I consider you to be as impartial a player as we've got given that you've spent most of your time going after Goofy (and I have been vocally against that).

That was rc post.

I'm tempted to vote rc and the hop on cooldog bothers me.

That is a startling lack of internal consistency. I don't know if there's enough hours left to lynch RC, tough.
My vote is certainly not parked anywhere better, so we can see if there is.

Vote: RedCoyote

The call for the end of the day is a little off too. People were actually posting a bit productively around that time

With the bodyguard claim I think the best thing to do is to let RC live. The most powerful use for the role is if a scummy townie gets it, and dives in front of an obvtown townie, thus killing a scummy townie instead of an obvtownie and making PoE easier. Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.

Unvote

If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.


IAI made a terribly scummy post when he said that he thinks RC is scum, thinks exactly one of {RC, cooldog} is scum, and voted cooldog. It's not internally consistent at all for him to do that. He should be on Drew if that's actually the way he feels, but I think he's faking his reads.
I don't think there's time for an IAI lynch though.

Vote: Drew

If this causes a third claim, it's not that bad a drawback at this point, the scum can't shoot multiple PRS in one night. And hey, we might have a bodyguard. Of course, the main reason for my preference is I think Cooldog is less likely to flip scum.

Cooldog's flipout on farside doesn't look like an earnest effort to find the scum on his wagon. Why you bein so hard to like CD?

So, RC's failure to dive for a bullet for reinoe casts some more doubt on his slot. I don't care if he roleblockage or selecting a different player is his excuse.

Part of me wants to give him another night, part of me wants to see how he flips. Because if he flips town then to me that looks really bad for Skrew, because his

Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.
Unvote
If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.

This reads like setting up an RC mislynch to win the game. I need to double check but I'm pretty sure the numbers line up.

Is packed to bursting with cognitive dissonance when Skrew is voting RC and holding him as a prime suspect. It only makes sense if Skrew knows RC is town, which would be a scumslip.

Trying to implicate another player for lining up the lynch of your top suspect has so much wtfbbq hypocrisy that requires a bad alignment to slilp into that the posting is bad enough without RC's flip.

I see the parallel, Skrew.

I don't care what RC's excuse is because scumRC would always have an excuse. It doesn't seem to matter what the excuse is if townBG RC can't get himself dead. I guess I shouldn't say I don't care, if RC's excuse was really terrible then it would implicate him further.

Vote: IAI

I'm going to sheep Cyberbob a little bit here. I like his work.

You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

Sorry for the multi quote stuff, it is easier when phone posting to put my thoughts on each below all the quotes then trying to figure out where to fit my thoughts in while phone posting.

Step by step here.

Most of day one pops talked about what he expected from scum. Riding low, not enjoying the game. Then he sort of pushed on rc but never voted him when he see's the scummy aspect.
However he chosen instead to go after Skrew for the nagging and repetition which is far from fucking scummy.
Then 2 days before deadline he votes Drew just as the "lesser of two evils".
Once I start talking about rc, pops chimes in and this is where I start seeing technical mafia terminology instead of reasoning found by a personal experience.
Post 929 is more technical terminology and as you see even though pops claimed his vote was the lesser of two evils he was not a fan of cooldog's post or scum hunting.
Post 1160 is pops calling rc possible scum for not protecting renioe and then more technical mafia terminology.
Finally we have the weak sheep vote, unvoting of iai (even though he never stated an issue that iai addressed) to not pushing any case at all today and just wanting to vote iai once again for no fucking reason.

[farside22]

You think I'm being lazy?

Are you suggesting I "could be scum with Beck" for saying he can be town for being one of the few people posting right now? Don't be thick, farside.

That being said, I have two town reads so far and the rest can be scum for now.

Gut is lazy in my view.

It is a weak reason for a town read, don't you think?

[farside22]

You think I'm being lazy?

Are you suggesting I "could be scum with Beck" for saying he can be town for being one of the few people posting right now? Don't be thick, farside.

That being said, I have two town reads so far and the rest can be scum for now.

Gut is lazy in my view.

It is a weak reason for a town read, don't you think?

It's a weak reason for a scum read, don't you think?

I was suspicious of cooldog before and thus far your play is not really winning me over so..??

[farside22]

What is the point of this back and forth singer?
Your not really scum hunting. You make a few question you've asked. And think you should be immune?

[farside22]

That's the point. I

don't

think I should be immune and am trying to figure out what's changing in the game.

You don't have to like my questions and you're welcome to try and make a case on why they make me scum lol. It's the way I engage with people. The engagement came because you're one of the few people responding; people just need to talk. If I see something that stands out I'll respond.

But no it's really frustrating when I just have you and bob making cases and no one else is really fighting for anything or offering their opinion. Like I said, I'll vote when I need to but right now I'm engaging in the game and trying to get active doalogue going in order to come to my own conclusions.

Sorry not sorry.

Ah it felt like you were trying to start an argument.
What did you think of the pops case?

[farside22]

Also to be fair, rc made a case and point on iai.
The people that haven't really made a strong case on whom there voting is beck (being replaced) and dess in my view.

[farside22]

Did someone call pops scum for tunneling? I don't recall,

[farside22]

Agh. I intended to make some posts yesterday but work called me back in and it turned out to be an extremely exhausting shift.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure what to make of pops, if he is scum it would be fair to say that he's successfully flying under my radar. I can say that I very much don't like this post:

IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

IAI's recent posting has been terrible. He calls himself guaranteed town because he never voted for two flipped town players - one of whom was only flipped by a scum kill. His five point "theory" of scum behaviour is shit. This post from pops does feel like it could plausibly be scum manoeuvring around from a previous "town read" into a bus. Always be on the lookout for wishy-washy reactions like this.

The obvious catch here is that it's one of those reads that is predicated on someone else's alignment (I don't think pops-scum would have the same attitude towards IAI if IAI were town). IAI is still the best lynch today.

Scum bussing would have not vote off the wagon and vote no one else, just saying....not that you listen.

[farside22]

I was away for (almost) literally two days and I managed to catch up in 15 minutes...
@farside: I'll make a chart with quotes and now I really do mean to use quotes. (Although, I can sum my ISO: vote parking on Konowa, answering all kinds of questions, having a pointless exchange with Goofy, whimwhaming on the Drew lynch, posting about IAI, new day, back to IAI, reveal you things I didn't make a secret out of. This guide is pretty reliable if my memory serves well, you could use it. I'll make the aformentiond post, regardless.)
I remember liking the pops wagon but I cannot recall why. I know where to look for it, though, so it's okay.

Hun if your talking about my comment about your case on iai I could do the quotes simple enough.

The million dolor question: what makes his motives scummy?

[farside22]

Yeah I feel like he was trying to get on my good side since my play upon replacing into games seems to be subpar as of late...

Do you mean your doing this on purpose.
Please respond yes.

Attempts to get on her good side fail, she is still critical of people who unvoted her slot. I like that.

Ironically, it's consistent with that for her to dislike me now

If there was a smiley kissing someone's ass I 'd put it here.

[farside22]

Someone with no case riding low under the radar is 10 times more scummy then day 2 post from iai.
My views of pops include actions of day 1 and no actions and defense only day 2.

[farside22]

It started way back in rvs. Scum like to blend in (see cyberbob) town like to get the game moving. I did not see scum sleepy wanting to draw that attention early.

It's why I stayed away from both you and reinoe, it felt like a couple of town trying to move the game forward.

Okay srsly off to the beach now

Bob is far from blending in the background.
That award belong to more pops and beck.
Goofy is going there lately.

[farside22]

I also haven't been told how reinoe's death makes RC's claim more believeable. Nor how your case could still hold while knowing the numbers.

The claim is more believable with a dead town vig, don't you think?

[farside22]

I'm not sure why this doubt arose dess.
You originally voted iai for start of day 2 comment and following rc.
Was there a doubt about rc I missed?
Also whom else are you scum reading and why?

[farside22]

So can we lynch pops yet
If not
Then can we at least lynch IAI

I'm sticking with my scum read on pops.
I can't believe anyone finds pops town.
I'm just tired of pounding my head against stubborn ass people.

[farside22]

IAI's posting is starting to sound delirious, but not in a good way.

Vote: IAmInnocent

So this looks like an excuse to hop on a wagon that's not yours. How is his posting delirious? In what way is it bad? How does that make him scum?

Which was how his vote on Drew looked like too.

More votes in pops!!! I'm tired of you stubborn ass people who have him as scum but don't vote him.

[farside22]

This days seems less arguing then day 2 to me.

[farside22]

I'm here. Mod, please don't replace me.

We still haven't had any bites for the Beck replacement yet? I thought the mod was a beloved user on this site! Seriously though, that slot is a mystery to me. It's been a mystery this entire game. That slot has more or less coasted this entire game. I remember Beck complaining about posts being too long and I remember Konowa complaining about not being able to get into this game.

I actually kind of like the game where it is though in a way. I'm more than happy with a IAI vs pops situation. I think both of these slots have a good chance at flipping scum, so I couldn't ask for anything better. If anyone wants me to try and sway them toward IAI, I'd be happy to do so.

Does anyone want to talk with me? I'll be on for a little while. Just post if you are online and I will answer.

What do you think of pops/beck scum team I referred to?

[farside22]

You know I'm not finding it readily.
I think beck and pops maybe scum together.
Beck mentioned, before replacing out he thought pops reasons were weak for pushing on him, however he keeps his line vote on cooldog.
Pops in return has said nothing after the big push on Konowa about beck at all and is pushing weak cases instead of pointing out Beck's constant lurking, which he has done this game.

[farside22]

Bob! You owe me your view of pops damn it.

[farside22]

CooLDoG just inned for a game
I'm pissed off now

Yea. I'm pissed at beck for claiming to be busy and seeing him post frequently elsewhere.

[farside22]

IAI's posting is starting to sound delirious, but not in a good way.

Vote: IAmInnocent

To be quite honest, since I made legend at hearthstone I for some reason don't care if I win this game.

Anyone thinking this is town needs to explain why in there next freeking post.

[farside22]

mod, replace me out of this game

I'm sorry, but there is just no way I can contribute to this game. I simply can't get into to it. Bye guys.

By the way cd replaced not due to be busy.

[farside22]

I've had that happen a few times, never understood it either.

[farside22]

I'm not sure why this doubt arose dess.
You originally voted iai for start of day 2 comment and following rc.
Was there a doubt about rc I missed?
Also whom else are you scum reading and why?

I also missed that doubt... What on earth are you talking about?
No one. I'm reading the pops case now, it's quite slow. You might think that the reasons why you scumread pops are obvious, but they aren't. For instance:

IAI's posting is starting to sound delirious, but not in a good way.

Vote: IAmInnocent

To be quite honest, since I made legend at hearthstone I for some reason don't care if I win this game.

Anyone thinking this is town needs to explain why in there next freeking post.

I've read this like five times and not just one after another, but leaving a few minutes between some "sessions" and I still can't see your point.

Why do you think it's a town post, either one, considering pops freeking stance on iai earlier

[farside22]

Rc: my scum read on pops is strong and unlike bob that freeking comment from pops and then vote is scum bussing.

Will quote things later for those not reading the game.

[farside22]

I see the parallel, Skrew.

I don't care what RC's excuse is because scumRC would always have an excuse. It doesn't seem to matter what the excuse is if townBG RC can't get himself dead. I guess I shouldn't say I don't care, if RC's excuse was really terrible then it would implicate him further.

Vote: IAI

I'm going to sheep Cyberbob a little bit here. I like his work.

You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

It's funny that people thought I was scum day 1 for tunneling Beck's slot too hard, and day 2 I'm getting criticized for attacking too weakly. :eyeroll:

I'm more maneuvering from my more favored lynches to a viable one. Day 1 I felt like I didn't get as good a compromise as I would have liked, IAI would be a pretty good step up from Drew.
I do agree with some of what you're saying about IAI. It weighs heavily against just one of his posts pinging off my gut well.

I don't know singer very well but I like her play so far.

IAI's posting is starting to sound delirious, but not in a good way.

Vote: IAmInnocent

Here I got pissed and quoted the multitude of today's post from pops and his comments about iai.

Sheep vote
Unvote even though he didn't give two shits or say anything about issues on iai.
Likes wagon iai, no reason why
Compromise fucking lynch ehile pushing jack fucking shit today
Vote iai for weak reason.

[farside22]

Since obviously people decide to ignore me and my points

Mod prod me if day end or time up

There is no alcohol in my house and this game gives me a big desire to start drinking

[farside22]

Skrew: nope.
I'm talking to two stubborn people.
If iai is town bully on the for being stubborn ass.
If iai is scum (which I doubt pointing out pops fucking behavior on the fucking wagon!) the congrats to them.

Frankly I'm rented to just vote iai and stop caring to make a point on who is scum

[farside22]

I'm going to have a convo with my 6 year old today. It may make feel better having someone agree with me today.

[farside22]

End of Day 1 Vote Count:

Drew-Sta (7) - Dessew, Goofyd00d, Cyberbob, popsofctown, RedCoyote, CooLDoG, SleepyKrew
CooLDoG (4) - reinoe, Beck, farside22, I Am Innocent
RedCoyote (1) - Drew-Sta

Not voting (0) - No one

with 12 alive its 7 to lynch

SleepyKrew is v/la until 8/12/14

Drew-Sta has been lynched he was

Town Vigilante

Get actions to me in 2 days adding countdown here shortly

Night 1 Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-09 18:30:00)

Day 2 Vote Count

I Am Innocent (4) - RedCoyote, Cyberbob, Dessew, popsofctown
popsofctown (4) - farside22, SleepyKrew, I Am Innocent, singersinger
singersigner (1) - Beck

Not voting (1) - Goofyd00d

Searching for replacement for Beck

With 10 alive its 6 to lynch

Day 2 Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-23 18:30:00)

I believe there's an older vote count where I said (2) instead of (3) votes for pops, will find and rectify shortly -

DONE

*Looks at Drew wagon, notes same player on iai's wagon.
Gives rc the talk to the hand sign*

[farside22]

Underline is a blatant lie. I would like you to link me to the five votes on you before mine...cause you won't find them.

Err, L-2. I miscounted out of paranoia this morning.

You dodged my earlier question. You say on Page 31 that you will "Absolutely not" vote cooldog. You have him as a "townread"...not lean town, but town read.

Then you vote him a few pages later.

I say again (third time), this was before reinoe's claim. Do you not understand the significance of me voting a player that has claimed tracker? Did you expect me to keep voting him?

---

Fuck it. If I am lynched, I get lynched. I agree with RC that the game is a team game and we have to work together, but he's simply looking to mislynch and I'm not going to be party to it.

Let's do it then. I'm done with you, Drew. I'm trying very hard to bite my tongue and let reinoe take point today since I think he's town and I think he has had good points against CD, but I can't stand for this shit anymore. You and IAI are constantly trying to smear me with some uber aggressive gambit. You know the funny thing? I actually was ready to just let bygones be bygones and start fresh with you tomorrow after some flips. I wasn't as convinced of you as scum as I was earlier today. But you won't drop it, and trying to lynch an un-cc'd PR is scummy as shit. I will gladly 1v1 you. I think you actually think this town will back you up, you arrogant Aussie.

UNVOTE: CooLDoG; VOTE: Drew-Sta

Are we actually going to have a 1000+ post day 1 in my normal

Even the mod is shaking his head at how crappy this town is...

Drew pushed his hand too far. I'm done with him. He's either scum with IAI or a completely liability as town. I have no interest in trying to work with him any longer.

Lol, the implication of 1121 is that IAI would try to lynch a non-CC'd tracker, too, I guess. It's just ridiculous. This whole thing is so ridiculous. You two got your hands caught in the cookie jar and now your partner is about to eat rope. I hope you're cooking up something good for us overnight, IAI.

Yup this reads completely my fault for your vote on Drew.

Never mind I unvoted rc and pushed back on cd day 1. Never mind I'm pushing pops today.
Never mind that I'm not calling you scum at fucking all.
I'm saying the wagon on iai sucks.
The 2 people voting pops that voted Drew, one had to do it or we have no lynch and the other didn't give two shits (referring to cooldog's play).

So please don't say I didn't want to lynch cd at the end of day 1, because that was who I pushed most of the freeking day!

Grrrr fucking people go back and read the damn game!

[farside22]

you, pops, SK, IAI and Drew

Hey now I didn't start that until after you'd changed your vote.
Anyway I don't want you two fighting. I think we (the three of us) all want them both lynched, correct? I might be forgetting farside's position on IAI.

Pops scum = iai town.
Again not a scum bus type vote.
You think it is, I really don't give a fig.

[farside22]

This and more was me pushing cooldog after your claim RC!
These!
So do me a favor and don't act like I didn't fucking push for cd.

I mean the most I see from cooldog as an example is that Drew is scum for building a case in rc and not sticking with it and moving to another player he found scummy.

If that all I'll just go back here.

VOTE: Cooldog

Also found this gem from cool about Drew.

1) anyone who thinks town hunting is a good idea is a noob. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but that is a fact.
2) You are probably scum because pretty much the only reason I could see to defend reinoe at this point is if he was your buddy.
3) Meta is bullshit. I'm not looking up your other games because in all likelihood the reason why you brought it up is because this is the time that you drew scum and your self-constructed "defending other people" meta is starting to pay off now that you drew scum.
4) not as much as you because she isn't a personal attack dog.

1) not a scum tell
2) not valid without a flip
3) agreed but not a scum tell
4) pfft defending is not a scum tell.

Bleck, I need to learn preview post one day, especially when I get interrupted at home.
I know those questions are not useless.
Most of those are asking players their views so I can get a read and the rest are I'm busy can someone remind me type post.

Cooldog's flipout on farside doesn't look like an earnest effort to find the scum on his wagon. Why you bein so hard to like CD?

It's not even an earnest effort to his point. Seriously he took a bunch Of fucking questions I asked and quoted it with no fucking reason.
That's a shit post he made that makes no sense. Asking question is fucking mafia.

Drew: you are at l1 and me. Scum pants cooldog who has you listed as scum but self voted, may vote you.

Cooldog self voting is interesting. Scum move or exasperated town?

Considering I pointed out the majority of the questions I asked that he called useless, but is me trying to get reads and his reaction is to self vote while calling people scum and if he believed you were scum he could vote and push that....I'm not seeing town reasoning.

You could ask someone not bias, but it would probably be called a pointless question.

Shouldn't cooldog be voting his scum read?

I did not fucking defend Renoie with meta! For fuck sake!

God I officially hate this game.

Why does any of that matter right now? What bearing does that have on these wagons at this exact point in time?

I think cooldog is scum.

That's cool and all but it doesn't answer my question. PS vote Drew

Cool has 5 votes and Drew has 5 votes. I think cool is scum and wagon is good. How Drew flips may change things my perspective. You don't think about that?

[farside22]

you, pops, SK, IAI and Drew

Hey now I didn't start that until after you'd changed your vote.
Anyway I don't want you two fighting. I think we (the three of us) all want them both lynched, correct? I might be forgetting farside's position on IAI.

I changed my vote to CD after reinoe claimed. I did this after thoroughly reading farside's points and reevaluating my own read of CD. Guess how farside, pops and IAI award me? By voting me! It's as though they never wanted to lynch CD to begin with, eh SK?

Now your just being an ass.
How dare people question me after I stated a town read and voted cd after the fact.
No seriously how the fuxk dare people question that at all. It's not rc fault he voted a earlier town read based on Renoie? A read through? People not being psychic? Or any player that voted rc.
10 to fucking 1 you want to lynch me just because I voted you.

True or untrue?


Oh and my vote on cooldog was before you freeking request!!!

[farside22]

Whatever.

Vote for iai. He flips town I'll be dead.

Since I'm going away for the next few day,
Skrew do as you please.
If iai is town look to lynch pops, beck and dess.
That is my 3 man scum team.
If iai is scum I'd look at singer. Not so sure about 3rd scum there.

[farside22]

Damnit, Goofy. What does an identical wagon matter if IAI is scum?

...but I do respect your opinion and have you as a solid townread. If I can't get either you or singer to relent, then I don't think I can get an IAI lynch. It really upsets me, because IAI is such a scum read of mine. Thankfully this is a good alternative lynch, otherwise I wouldn't be so quick to concede. If pops flips town, I swear to mith I'm going to be very upset with the townies among you, singer, farside and SK.

pops, claim in your next post, please. Intent to hammer.

If I'm wrong I get merciful mocked and sheep vote iai.
If I'm right I get to do a touchdown dance with my son!

[farside22]

This is my case on pop
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6121553

That is for squirel

[farside22]

In short squirel, pops is not scum hunting.
Nothing today, which I pointed out in the link.
A bunch of not trying, pushing or anything and lots of technical mafia term that read fake.
He basically votes iai and has nothing to say about what else he finds scummy

[farside22]

I'll admit I don't get the Drew vote issue - that seems reasonable as an action paired with his stated beliefs. Maybe I'm just dumb and am missing it, but I don't really see the fire there.

He is saying that he voted Drew because he HAD to pick one of Drew/CD, and decided that Drew was a slightly less bad choice. What actually happened was he called Drew scummy. Has pops ever even tried to contest this point?

This as well.

[farside22]

Dess: the time see iai talking about lynching a confirmed role was here:

See what your doing is lazy, and lazy = scummy.

What do you think about me saying Cooldog should be the lynch so we don't have another player claim? Does that hold more weight than you saying, "If he had claimed vig, I'd have voted CD for sure. I had a feeling that he might be town (that's partially why I voted CD instead of Drew after reinoe's claim) and that I was just tunnelling on him, but when IAI and Drew ganged up on me after my claim with no CC... that's was it. I was officially done with him."

Who wants more players to claim D1? Scum or town?

Who would rather lynch now town confirmed Drew vs claimed VT cooldog? Scum or town?

Where was I on that argument, and where were you?

Was there another post he said it, because this post it talking hypothetically.

[farside22]

@farside

Yep, you voted the confirmed town vig while I voted CD. Once again, bad argument on your part.

I'm not quoting the whole post because it's way too long to do that.

Not sure why you think this is scummy and not just a shitty thing to say to another player.

[farside22]

Wasn't the Vig claim made *after* the lynch had happened? Because I read IAI calling people scummy for lynching a provable role - but that only makes sense if the claim came prior to the lynch.

Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!

It doesn't make sense. At all. Along with literally everything else that has come out of his mouth this game.

You seem to no issue with pops who has made absolutely zero effect in scum hunting. Any reason why?

[farside22]

Farside I'm about to blow my fucking top

Welcome to my world since day fucking one.

[farside22]

Effect should be effort in post 1620.

[farside22]

Wasn't the Vig claim made *after* the lynch had happened? Because I read IAI calling people scummy for lynching a provable role - but that only makes sense if the claim came prior to the lynch.

Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!

It doesn't make sense. At all. Along with literally everything else that has come out of his mouth this game.

You seem to no issue with pops who has made absolutely zero effect in scum hunting. Any reason why?

This is not what I have been saying at all read my fucking posts jesus christ you have no idea how frustrating it is to be told all game how supposedly stubborn I am by someone who so blissfully refuses to pay the slightest amount of attention to anything

Making a post saying not sure what to think about pops and riding low, is not exactly a scum read.
And don't you fucking give me shit. You tunnel Drew and today is iai.
So don't act like you fucking listen or care about others reads, you' ll just death tunnel a player and everyone else can go fuckbthemselves

[farside22]

I think my IAI issue is actually what he's saying kind of feels like multiple little slips because of the town case he's trying to sell on himself that doesn't make much sense unless he knows the alignments of unflipped players or expects his detractors to.

The lie thing I'm indifferent about, it's kind of a derpy misrep, but it is honestly about the same as Pops getting the wrong(?) vibe from IAI as to what IAI was selling - which actually seems reasonable considering how bouncy he is. I'm mostly pinging on it just because multiple Pops voters (Sleepy and Farside) have issue with lies - but no issue with that lie, which has to be just as big of a lie. Heck, it's actually a less interpretive lie, really, so it's probably objectively a purer lie - and it's also being used to present scum reads. SO I really don't get why one is an issue and the other isn't.

I'd also really like farside to sell me on the non-scumhunting thing. i happily agree that's bad, but unless Pops is normally an active scumhunter when town it seems like a playstyle tell being dressed up.

Vote: Farside

I'm putting that out to clarify my own thoughts currently as to the vote I'd want if it was up only to me.
Depending on some answers I get I may move.
Or if I get a lot of sudden sheep I may not Just saying.

So instead of meta searching the player in question doing nothing you ask me his meta and vote me?
That seems opposite land.
Is my case saying all meta.....no. I stated his lack of scum reads and push. You think that comes from town? Why?

[farside22]

I have a few things I looked at with pops a bit meta why he is a scum read over town, I just can't get it this moment. I'll get links when I get home.

[farside22]

This game pops is town using the same mafia technical term he used here
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go pops scum not saying a whole lot


Town pops

town
Very much more open dialog and back and forth explaining himself
town
Again views, thoughts, points. Not lazy.

[farside22]

Sorry for the broken tags I got interrupted about 5 times getting those links.

[farside22]

Laziness and disinterest are different. I just can't make anything happen with this town. I spend day 1 driving a good case, but no one listens or respects me or anything. They just keep making inane cases and comparing appendage lengths.

If I'm playing a little like a survivor, well, it's because I seem to have no power to get anyone lynched no matter what I say. It sorta seemed like the only thing I could do is prevent my own lynch, then, since I know I'm town. I went hard on Konowa and people just give him a free pass for nothing because everyone is a dumb sucker for the cat that ran up the tree story instead of the cat that didn't. I try to explain why RCs -unconfirmed- -L1 yielded- claim should get textbook lynched and I'm accused of lining up a LyLo lynch like wtf?

You said nothing today.
Your big case was against Konowa and even that was half hearted. You made vague comments about rc with no vote and then vote Skrew for a big pile I crap reason.
At then you limp on Drew, stopped pushing completely on Konowa/beck and the start today with another stab at Skrew point.

[farside22]

Oh and you said if rc is town that makes Skrew look scum. You want to say hey bg is unconfirmed but is scummy day 2.
As I said you sure aren't driving the Konowa/beck thing anymore since beck replaced at all

[farside22]

The two that say town he was town.
Not sure why you were confused or saying I mislead anything there squirel.

So he hammered one game and doesn't hammer here therefore he's town?
Please explain that logic compared to where he was town being voted and telling people his reads before he was lynched and not doing it here.

[farside22]

Also one of the scum link that broke he was lynched in and did not self vote there squirel

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3521605




Why didn't you do your own meta research? If the behavior is scummy and I show a more active town pops why is he town based on not hammering squirel?

[farside22]

Wasn't the Vig claim made *after* the lynch had happened?

Correct.
I'll do your other stuff later or maybe someone will hammer please

Are you okay with IAI calling people scummy for lynching a "confirmable" role - when they didn't know that?
I'm asking this because a big part of your case on Pops seems to be about lies - so I'm curious of your attitude towards this lie.

Not a fan of Cyberbob's case.
IAI's vote on Pops looks *way* more survival minded than the Pops vote on IAI.

@Farside - is town Pops a more active scumhunter than this Pops?

Also want to point out pops knows he'd soon be dead here and has yet to post his scum reads with reasons and only doing defense.
Show me meta of town pops doing that squirel.

[farside22]

Has squirel explained why pops is not scum based on meta?
I'm a bit busy for the next 2 days so someone needs to follow up on that.

[farside22]

@IAI - it has happened, Sleepy expressed hammer intent, you have just shown you're not reading the thread and/or that you're intentionally delaying your claim to try to work on your fake claim.

Less scummy, though still skimmy. I'm content with the lynch still.

@Farside - haven't found a scum one where he offered last reads. I did find a town one where his last reads consisted solely of 'lynch lurkers, I guess' so now we have established as town that he doesn't always offer helpful last reads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17629

So you found 1 game he doesn't offer helpful guide as town, why does that lead you to think he is town here squirel?
One game vs how many games?
Why is his lazy no case action town?

[farside22]

I had to search for this scum game of pops.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

He was lynched that game and fake claim.

Now squirel, back to you. You said the lack of comments and plays isn't really town and asked for meta, but your only gripe seemed to be that pops self voted in a game as scum and did not do it here.
My question, why would he self vote as scum if people stated interest in voting someone else that is close to lynch?
I'm also waiting for you to show meta reason why you think pops play is town play.

[farside22]

farside? singer? Goofy? How does the word "confirmed" work in this circumstances. If it does, please explain it to me. If it doesn't, why is IAI making this up? This fits into a pattern with him trying to awkwardly force himself to get town credit over Drew's flip:

Do you know how many times [Drew and reinoe] received my vote? ZERO.

How about analyzing the wagons yourselves to see where scum is on there.

I see arrogance. I don't see confirmed anything.

Hold on a second.

[farside22]

Going to do some vote count analysis, for Dessew/RC/guessing CyberBob when he checks in, we have two dead townies. Do you know how many times those dead townies received my vote? ZERO.

How about analyzing the wagons yourselves to see where scum is on there. Cyberbob's vote early D1 (3rd on Reinoe) got my attention early. It was why I jumped on him. Guarantee that scum was on those wagons, so how about "analyzing" them rather than OMGUS'ing, RC? Dessew, same challenge goes to you.

RC, I know your lazy/OMGUS'ing, but me, pops, and Farside were not on that Reinoe wagon of 5. Neither was beck or dessew.

So 5 of ur 6 scum reads are not on the wagon...do u really think Beck or Dessew could be the last scum and that none of the 3 scum were on that Reinoe wagon?

Hi Bob, how predictable.

I notice you on both those wagons, huh? Very curious...

Wow, actually 5 of you on both those wagons. The ones of you that are town, I'd think you'd be looking real hard at the other 4 players.

So what does that say about RC/Bob who just vote me to start this day with no real analysis.

So come on, you got me, the scum avoiding the town wagons, and now cooldog, the self voting VT claimed second scum on both wagons, whose your third?

This is fun Bob, give it to me!

Here is a lot of what people ignored??? Earlier was iai was talking about wagon analysis from those that were lynched.

[farside22]

Also why is it that pops gets to lurk like mad defending/making cases and isn't lynched, but iai is saying who he thinks is scum and he is the best lynch?

[farside22]

Look, I really wanted to talk to SK or Goofy. farside is too far in the tank for IAI and IAI is clearly biased. I had no intention of making a zillion posts here, but IAI's scuminess knows no bounds.

If SK or Goofy comes online and tells me straight up, "RC, in my heart of hearts, I think pops is a better lynch than IAI and you should hammer", I will hammer pops in my next post. Contrasty, if they want to discuss the game with me, I will be willing to do that as well.

Why does pops get to lurk and have no scum reads?
I want an awnser.

[farside22]

Here is another thing that bothers me.
Squirel says here the play is bad but ask for meta on the player.

I think my IAI issue is actually what he's saying kind of feels like multiple little slips because of the town case he's trying to sell on himself that doesn't make much sense unless he knows the alignments of unflipped players or expects his detractors to.

The lie thing I'm indifferent about, it's kind of a derpy misrep, but it is honestly about the same as Pops getting the wrong(?) vibe from IAI as to what IAI was selling - which actually seems reasonable considering how bouncy he is. I'm mostly pinging on it just because multiple Pops voters (Sleepy and Farside) have issue with lies - but no issue with that lie, which has to be just as big of a lie. Heck, it's actually a less interpretive lie, really, so it's probably objectively a purer lie - and it's also being used to present scum reads. SO I really don't get why one is an issue and the other isn't.

I'd also really like farside to sell me on the non-scumhunting thing. i happily agree that's bad, but unless Pops is normally an active scumhunter when town it seems like a playstyle tell being dressed up.

Vote: Farside

I'm putting that out to clarify my own thoughts currently as to the vote I'd want if it was up only to me.
Depending on some answers I get I may move.
Or if I get a lot of sudden sheep I may not Just saying.

Earlier she stated my case was like skrew's. So why is skrew's case and point fine but mine is scummy?

@Farside - thanks, also I think I got to see the IAI lie thing Sleepy was talking about now, yeah? That explains why I didn't recall seeing it earlier as it's functionally the same thing he was saying about Sleepy, so I guess I just combined them. I'm going to say that your case, to a large degree, does look the same as the case Sleepy has - your big issue does also seem to revolve around the belief pops expressed of a scum lean towards RC and the theoretical soft push on RC and you're also having issue with the Drew vote.

I'll admit I don't get the Drew vote issue - that seems reasonable as an action paired with his stated beliefs. Maybe I'm just dumb and am missing it, but I don't really see the fire there.
I'll also admit - I have no idea why scum would even sweat a bodyguard. Frankly, bodyguard always sort of struck me as a dumb role, really. Like, if I was scum and someone was a bodyguard it's like 'meh, who cares?' The only way it matters is if they happen to protect an investigative role, really. Maybe I'm coming from a weird position there, but I have no idea why scum would even bother soft pushing on a Bodyguard. Don't tell Sleepy I said Bodyguard though...

@Cyberbob - do you have any reason at all I should think IAI is scum? I keep looking at these cases (and drunk rambles) for why pops is town and I'm all like 'oooh, they're long, and have *quotes* in them!" so I'm all like, guess maybe they must be true! Can you explain why you're not voting for pops already and seem to have this insane belief that poor IAI is scum?

Why would it matter that bad behavior should be meta'ed?
And why does those points that pops called scum read as a player scum hunting
None of that is explained by squirel here.

So instead of meta searching the player in question doing nothing you ask me his meta and vote me?
That seems opposite land.
Is my case saying all meta.....no. I stated his lack of scum reads and push. You think that comes from town? Why?

I presumed when you had cited that as scummy from him and voted him that you already had an awareness of the meta and knew/suspected this wasn't play that would come from him as town. Was I wrong to presume that?

Maybe it is opposite land, I've had my logic called...(wait for it)....squirrely.

He has certainly expressed scum reads, I can tell that just by going over his iso. I will agree he hasn't pushed scumreads functionally today - but I ask why you presume that to be something he is normally capable of doing and is choosing to not do in this game?

I also note you're trying to frame me into a false debate. I never said his actions justified a town case. I do think they justify a playstyle case,a nd I also could *easily* show you town playing poorly and not scumhunting. Is that really a shocking idea to you, like you've never seen it before? That sounds insane if true.

Actually, I think I sold myself, and we only have two days left and it doesn't look like my cuteness factor has kicked in yet for sheeping;

Unvote: Farside
Vote: IAI

L-1

If this is a scum flip - I would highly suggest a Farside lynch next. Like, highly, highly.

Next you have squirel sheeping a vote. But who is she sheeping? She said she didn't like cyber 'a case and saw that Skrew felt strongly in his belief of pops so who and what case pushed one over the other?

[farside22]

I missed this during my skim of 1226. This is an outstanding catch, Dessew. Everytime I try to go back and read this game, something new comes up that makes me want to dig my heels in. SK, did you see this point?

I might have commented on it when I was defending my hammer, but yeah I definitely noticed and it's part of the reason I suspect him. I did get that he meant "now confirmed", but I still think just phrasing it that way is suspicious.

Hey Skrew, rc asked

Look, I really wanted to talk to SK or Goofy. farside is too far in the tank for IAI and IAI is clearly biased. I had no intention of making a zillion posts here, but IAI's scuminess knows no bounds.

If SK or Goofy comes online and tells me straight up, "RC, in my heart of hearts, I think pops is a better lynch than IAI and you should hammer", I will hammer pops in my next post. Contrasty, if they want to discuss the game with me, I will be willing to do that as well.

Thoughts?

[farside22]

It's curious that someone got to L-1 and claimed well before someone else did (but hasn't claimed)...wonder what that means,,.

Both have claimed vt.
One is asking people to vote cyber when they flip town and the other sits back and let's people defend him, he defends himself and express's no scum read at l-1.
No one tells me why they are okay with the later.

[farside22]

You clearly aren't done discussing, and I want to see Squirrel Girl's response to you (I've got some predictions!) so no hammer yet.

What do you think of squirel girls defense of pops?

[farside22]

You clearly aren't done discussing, and I want to see Squirrel Girl's response to you (I've got some predictions!) so no hammer yet.

What do you think of squirel girls defense of pops?

I don't think it is what you think it is, but I'm going to let Squirrely explain/prove me wrong.

You don't think squirel is defending pops bad play based on weak meta? I pointed to 4 games. 1 was scum with1 liners and one he talked more but his scum reasoning was not very strong in most cases in both game . The other two games he talked more openly about scum and had multi reads.

I feel like there's some significance in the fact that pops has spent so long at L-1 without being hammered but I can't remember whether Mafia Theory has that as an indication of scum or town. I want to say scum but I would have expected a bus hammer by now if he was scum (assuming that there are scum on the IAI wagon) since it's usually in scum's interest to have days that are as short as possible

Let's go into hypothery for a moment. If one wagon is town and the other is scum then does it make sense to bus?
If both are scum then it would make sense for scum to lean on one more then the ithet

[farside22]

Laziness and disinterest are different. I just can't make anything happen with this town. I spend day 1 driving a good case, but no one listens or respects me or anything. They just keep making inane cases and comparing appendage lengths.

If I'm playing a little like a survivor, well, it's because I seem to have no power to get anyone lynched no matter what I say. It sorta seemed like the only thing I could do is prevent my own lynch, then, since I know I'm town. I went hard on Konowa and people just give him a free pass for nothing because everyone is a dumb sucker for the cat that ran up the tree story instead of the cat that didn't. I try to explain why RCs -unconfirmed- -L1 yielded- claim should get textbook lynched and I'm accused of lining up a LyLo lynch like wtf?

Do you really think pops is voting for who he thinks is scum and is really pushing anything like he says here ?


By the total terrible with mafia theory. I get more Wifom, which doesn't help.

[farside22]

By the way just want to say I feel frustrated that a few people stated scum reads on pops but want to keep him alive over iai.
I really don't understand how a player that doesn't push or state scum reads at l-1 can be town in anyone's view at all.

[farside22]

I have more townreads than scumreads this game. It happens sometimes. IAI is my biggest one, because he has been too willing to lynch a variety of different people (except for the townwagons he bragged about). Since IAI is already the counterwagon to me there's not much to say, Cyberbob makes the case better than I do.

A variety of different people?

IAI
Farside
Sleepykrew
Singer
Beck
RC
Dessew
Goofydood
Pops
Cyberbob

How does this list he made say that?

[farside22]

By the way he stated before that list it was from townie at to scum so don't get cute

[farside22]

Dess: TBF I half read things, the case of ADD that I have makes me look very much bad to the people.
The only things I remember from Squirell is saying that I did not provide enough meta to say that this is null even though one game pops is scum with one liner and as town he is more expressive. And the fact he didn't hammer himself is pretty much all I recall.
Well that and my links were not clear because I got interrupted and stated as much when I linked them.

[farside22]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IAI

omg thor

If iai flips town and people do not lynch pops I will fucking blacklist every fucking player here.

[farside22]

I was typing up a huge response to Farside, but then realized I'd hate myself if I fell into that trap.
Look, Farside's barrage of posts basically makes two claims that I will show are silly.

1. That I am saying the meta shows that Pops is town, and that I haven't backed that up, therefore my issue should be ignore.
2. That I have not clarified why I have an issue with Farside but not Sleepy - when I have said both are doing the same thing.

Basically both of those claims are straight up straw men and/or lies. I have never said #1, and in fact have specifically not said it multiple times. I also *have* discussed #2 (again, multiple times I think). I am frustrated that Farside is demanding I defend and support things I have NEVER SAID and then, in the same wave, trying to suggest that my reads should be ignored because I can't defend things I never said.

Here's my rebuttal to *ALL* the points she is claiming I need to somehow show that Pops is town via meta;

I also note you're trying to frame me into a false debate. I never said his actions justified a town case. I do think they justify a playstyle case,a nd I also could *easily* show you town playing poorly and not scumhunting. Is that really a shocking idea to you, like you've never seen it before? That sounds insane if true.

Farside should be well aware that it is not my stance that Pops = town via meta - but is choosing to still try to force me to defend those statements.
I cannot make my stance any clearer than the above - and I said that in a response to Farside.
Farside apparently doesn't care and keeps trying to argue nonsense with me while suggesting people should ignore my thoughts.


Here's my rebuttal to #2

Even Sleepy the tunnel king actually feels comfortable admitting that he scum reads both - as well he should since they've done the same stuff. But Farside acts surprised I even have that conclusion - while still sticking to her guns that it is Pops, not IAI, who looks scummy...for reasons...

That doesn't make you nervy about her?

It makes me nervy as hell - what have you figured out from trying to understand her?

I have noted multiple times that I found Sleepy's reactions more towninsh, and Farside's more strange and agenda motivated, and have been noting this belief for some time - yet Farside can't figure out why I would possibly vote her.

I am content with my vote.
I would be more content if we spun all our votes onto Farside.
I am pretty sure this answers all the raised issues and points Farside made of me - and my basic answer is 'Farside is not reading and/or lying'.

1) just because a play can get lazy does not mean that get to be fucking lazy especially at l1
2) you wanted meta and then ignored it, why?



You second statement is blanetly false. If you read the game you might now that.

[farside22]

No issue with my response to you?

By the way I phone post and was pissed that pops gets to lurk another day because of what comes down to one fucking post made by iai.

Eat shit and die!!!!

[farside22]

1. Okay...that still doesn't prove they are scum. Basically you are arguing that he is a poor player, and suggesting we should lynch hi due to that - but you're claiming it proves he's scum in the same breath.
2. I have done anything but ignore meta - half of our conversation has been about meta.

I'm not sure which statement is my 'second statement' here. I'm going to presume it's #2. I will quote you saying that now;

Earlier she stated my case was like skrew's. So why is skrew's case and point fine but mine is scummy?

If you meant any other comment of mine please clarify which one - and I'll prove that whatever I said is also true.
I don't expect you to do so, because staying vague is your only defense at this point.

You brought up the fucking meta
YOU!
I made a huge fucking case that stated that his fucking cases suck shit and that he unvoted a fucking player and push jack fucking shit today as far as scum.
Why is that not good enough for you.

Calm down farside :s

I have a right to be mad. This is the second day I was completely rebuffed in my scum read.

[farside22]

You brought up the fucking meta
YOU!
I made a huge fucking case that stated that his fucking cases suck shit and that he unvoted a fucking player and push jack fucking shit today as far as scum.
Why is that not good enough for you.

I explicitly explained and showed examples of why "that wasn't good enough for me"
I have re-quoted a comment I made (and basically just repeated it again above) that I felt your meta, at best, showed a playstyle case, rather than a scum case - and didn't support his actions here as te actions of Pops scum, but rather the actions of Pops player.

What about my stance is confusing you?

You did not show how it represents his town play based on meta

[farside22]

There's a difference between mad and insulting.

Let's see after pokerface shows alignment if I have a right to be insulting people.

[farside22]

No flip is going to justify being that insulting.
PEDIT: ^^

Fine

Mod replace me

[farside22]

Fine

Mod:
V/la noted.

I'm going to cool down. Maybe I'll be lucky and dead anyways.

[farside22]

You brought up the fucking meta
YOU!
I made a huge fucking case that stated that his fucking cases suck shit and that he unvoted a fucking player and push jack fucking shit today as far as scum.
Why is that not good enough for you.

I explicitly explained and showed examples of why "that wasn't good enough for me"
I have re-quoted a comment I made (and basically just repeated it again above) that I felt your meta, at best, showed a playstyle case, rather than a scum case - and didn't support his actions here as te actions of Pops scum, but rather the actions of Pops player.

What about my stance is confusing you?

You did not show how it represents his town play based on meta

We're talking at cross purposes here - what have I said that makes you think I am arguing it proves he is town?
I am arguing that it is a null tell - and has no clear alignment showing properties.

That doesn't awnser the question.
I showed 2 scum game where he made either subpar cases or wordy and showed more open thought as town.
Why is it null?

[farside22]

There's a difference between mad and insulting.

Let's see after pokerface shows alignment if I have a right to be insulting people.

Mafia is a game.

Agreed! No hard feelings bob? (Cough cough scum)

Do you hate me for not think bob is scum?
I called out my scum team many a page ago and still no one listens.

[farside22]

If IAI is indeed town, farside's stock bumps up tremendously. Although, honestly if IAI was town, I'd have expected him to self-hammer many pages ago as he is wont to do, lol.

That said, SK is right. I hope farside can cool down a bit.

Me more nicely ask:

Please lynch pops tomorrow if iai is town.

I don't see why he would continue to post comments as scum though so just vote pops tomorrow.

Thanks

Xoxox

Far.

[farside22]

That doesn't awnser the question.
I showed 2 scum game where he made either subpar cases or wordy and showed more open thought as town.
Why is it null?

I think it does answer the question when you're asking me to defend something I didn't say - I can't really answer the question any other way.
You did show two scum games, I would also note that I found his interactions in one of the linked scum games you provided to be aggressive and very scumhunting focused - I described this. i also pointed out other actions that didn't seem to marry over well as far as your read,a nd also pointed out an issue with one of the games you used and the conclusion you drew from it, because it was a different sort of lynch situation. I also noted that one game you were citing for info of how he handled lynches he wasn't lynched, but night killed in, suggesting a premeditated false premise attempt from you.
I think it is null because you failed to properly connect a given play to either a scum or town game systematic history,a nd I was able to show multiple exceptions to both - that is the definition of showing it is null.

I was in the game you didn't like where he was lynched.
I misspoke about him being lynched the other game.
I also pointed to third scum game you said nothing about.
And the game was lynched day 1 he still had reads and they were not survivlistic

[farside22]

That doesn't awnser the question.
I showed 2 scum game where he made either subpar cases or wordy and showed more open thought as town.
Why is it null?

I think it does answer the question when you're asking me to defend something I didn't say - I can't really answer the question any other way.
You did show two scum games, I would also note that I found his interactions in one of the linked scum games you provided to be aggressive and very scumhunting focused - I described this. i also pointed out other actions that didn't seem to marry over well as far as your read,a nd also pointed out an issue with one of the games you used and the conclusion you drew from it, because it was a different sort of lynch situation. I also noted that one game you were citing for info of how he handled lynches he wasn't lynched, but night killed in, suggesting a premeditated false premise attempt from you.
I think it is null because you failed to properly connect a given play to either a scum or town game systematic history,a nd I was able to show multiple exceptions to both - that is the definition of showing it is null.

I notice this does say what you found of his town games that makes shitty case making null.

[farside22]

So you will let pops lurk and make no cases and continue to call it null, while people pushing for the lynch is scum?

[farside22]

Also you asked for meta, because you disagreed, them asked for no meta on iai is highly sudpect

[farside22]

I'm happy now. We did do well today.
@Squirel: are you scumreading farside now? (I'm a bit lost, tbh.) If so, then what is your read on pops and how strong is it? (Or not just "if so", it might be not intersting, though.)

I've been scumreading Farside for a long while and also voted Farside and encouraged botht he Pops and IAI wagon to go away in favor of a Farside lynch today.
My current read on Pops is "meh" really. I wasn't particularly against nor for his lynch, though I did find the case on him more one of complaining about playstyle rather than citing him for scumminess. I actually had the same attitude about the IAI case - I pointed out that I chose to vote IAI more due to my issues with Farside than particular belief in the case.

I was in the game you didn't like where he was lynched.
I misspoke about him being lynched the other game.
I also pointed to third scum game you said nothing about.
And the game was lynched day 1 he still had reads and they were not survivlistic

Your first two points I'll agree with the first and shrug and go 'well, that's your safest answer' to the second, but it's certainly a possibility for what went down, I'll agree.
Your third point, I think i probably mentioned that game when I described how you had linked a game where I saw agreement in your description of the scum meta you were selling on him, but then noted that the other disabused me of that belief.
I'll agree he had non-survivalistic reads in that game, I just disagree that he always does that as town, and will also note in that game he was pretty much an early lynch choice and had nothing else to do but express some reads - I would also note it was Day 1, and in this game Day 1 he had reads. I also saw a scum game of his where he had lots of clear reads over multiple days. I also saw a town game with the same. I also saw a town game with rather poor reads. I'm standing by my opinion that I don't think the meta supports what you're saying it supports, and will also re-state my issue with how you didn't have this meta evidence, were asked about it, then found stuff that supported your stance...as long as you don't look at it much.

I basically think you faked the meta research and just grabbed things and claimed they backed your call.[/quote

Also I want a link where he was survivalist as town link.
I didn't say as town he was survilist I said as town he still gives reads at l1
You write this post in a confusing manner.

[farside22]

Wasn't survivlustic

See what interruption cost

[farside22]

Also why aren't you linking the games your citing as evidence against me?

[farside22]

I have a few things I looked at with pops a bit meta why he is a scum read over town, I just can't get it this moment. I'll get links when I get home.

Also reading this where do I say it's all meta relegated squirel?

[farside22]

I notice this does say what you found of his town games that makes shitty case making null.

I'm guessing you mean 'doesn't'?
I can show you games of his with him as town making poor cases, and can show you games that he was scum where I think he was making fine cases (though at least one of those I know we disagree on because you claimed it showed the opposite).

I realize your talking about the game where I noted he used more mafia terminology as scum that game, which he is doing here so......???

[farside22]

@IAI - it has happened, Sleepy expressed hammer intent, you have just shown you're not reading the thread and/or that you're intentionally delaying your claim to try to work on your fake claim.

Less scummy, though still skimmy. I'm content with the lynch still.

@Farside - haven't found a scum one where he offered last reads. I did find a town one where his last reads consisted solely of 'lynch lurkers, I guess' so now we have established as town that he doesn't always offer helpful last reads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17629

In any case, to be honest I don't read farside's arguments so much as I read the emotion behind them as town. I have a hard time believing that scum have to try very hard to push anyone in this game and yet she and cyberbob are uncompromising because they believe they are without a doubt right.

Could be a crazy ploy but yeah, I feel like scum could easily justify either wagon and not be pressured nearly as much as they seem to be today.

You get this frowny face for complaining about me trying to figure out Farside apparently with no actual traction of your own to discuss.

Also, can you point m to where Cyberbob or Farside really felt bought in emotionally o you? I don't get that from either of them, yet am getting it from Sleepy in spades and you apparently don't get it from him because you didn't mention that. Just looking at the game from the point I came in I see Sleepy being loud, proud, aggressive, and focused about his thoughts, but paired with awareness of other things - that reads as town to me. Cyberbob basically stated hi thing, backed it up a bit, and then left in a huff the didn't feel obviously real and could have just been a fake way to avoid having to defend anything for days on end. He reacted to me saying 'I'm not sure' about his case by giving up on me? When his case is at L-1? To try to force through a deadline lynch? I didn't feel any buy-in there. Farside is focused, and is making cases, but the cases seem hollow considering the similarities between the two wagons and Farside not even discussing why one is good or bad besides making the meta claim about scumhunting, a claim she backed up awkwardly and with, in my opinion, a pretty clear showing of dishonesty in how the evidence was being presented that makes me question the motives all the more.

What are your thoughts?

By the way I explained why I thought iai was town base on pops vote so thanks for lying here.

Oh and last but not least I didn't see a response when you posted this.

Why does one time from pops town just not being helpful but multi times as scum not being helpful at l-1 make it null?

[farside22]

I think I extracted the main points;

So you will let pops lurk and make no cases and continue to call it null, while people pushing for the lynch is scum?

This is ridiculous and has no bearing on anything I've said.

Also you asked for meta, because you disagreed, them asked for no meta on iai is highly sudpect

Please point out the point raised about IAI that was based on playstyle and I'll agree that I dropped the ball.
The issue raised there was basically the lie. I also didn't question the meta of the lie issue as applied to Pops.
Your hypocrisy complaint here is pretty empty.

Also why aren't you linking the games your citing as evidence against me?

I have linked some and have not linked others - are you coming out and saying those games don't exist and your meta check was deep enough to know that they don't?
If you agree to that I'll link all of them.
If not, I don't see why I need to post games to show your meta check was shallow, because you're already aware of it.

You pushed and use the word push laughably a vote on me and calls pops null and found both cases weak.
Where do you say you'll vote for pops if he continues his shit playing ways?


You stated both cases where the same. How is it not both a playstyle thing?


I saw one link you made.
If there was more please tell me where. Because the one link showed pops as active town pissed a lurkers, which makes no sense for him to do as town if he hates it so.

[farside22]

@IAI - it has happened, Sleepy expressed hammer intent, you have just shown you're not reading the thread and/or that you're intentionally delaying your claim to try to work on your fake claim.

Less scummy, though still skimmy. I'm content with the lynch still.

@Farside - haven't found a scum one where he offered last reads. I did find a town one where his last reads consisted solely of 'lynch lurkers, I guess' so now we have established as town that he doesn't always offer helpful last reads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17629

In any case, to be honest I don't read farside's arguments so much as I read the emotion behind them as town. I have a hard time believing that scum have to try very hard to push anyone in this game and yet she and cyberbob are uncompromising because they believe they are without a doubt right.

Could be a crazy ploy but yeah, I feel like scum could easily justify either wagon and not be pressured nearly as much as they seem to be today.

You get this frowny face for complaining about me trying to figure out Farside apparently with no actual traction of your own to discuss.

Also, can you point m to where Cyberbob or Farside really felt bought in emotionally o you? I don't get that from either of them, yet am getting it from Sleepy in spades and you apparently don't get it from him because you didn't mention that. Just looking at the game from the point I came in I see Sleepy being loud, proud, aggressive, and focused about his thoughts, but paired with awareness of other things - that reads as town to me. Cyberbob basically stated hi thing, backed it up a bit, and then left in a huff the didn't feel obviously real and could have just been a fake way to avoid having to defend anything for days on end. He reacted to me saying 'I'm not sure' about his case by giving up on me? When his case is at L-1? To try to force through a deadline lynch? I didn't feel any buy-in there. Farside is focused, and is making cases, but the cases seem hollow considering the similarities between the two wagons and Farside not even discussing why one is good or bad besides making the meta claim about scumhunting, a claim she backed up awkwardly and with, in my opinion, a pretty clear showing of dishonesty in how the evidence was being presented that makes me question the motives all the more.

What are your thoughts?

By the way I explained why I thought iai was town base on pops vote so thanks for lying here.

Oh and last but not least I didn't see a response when you posted this.

Why does one time from pops town just not being helpful but multi times as scum not being helpful at l-1 make it null?

Still waiting for a response to the bold question.

[farside22]

"Potentially" then? Maybe 'possibly' that sounds a bit more like a conclusion than potentially but without the stronger vibe of probably which sounds like a >50% sorta comment.

I do still stand by my previously stated commentary about your reads

I still feel like I'm floundering a bit without enough reactions to ping from other people. Singer's drunk antics were not as rewarding as the beginning of this sentence should seem to imply them to be. Cyberbob is basically checked out for...some reason. Goofy about the same. I don't think I've even seen Red in thread yet. Both IAI and Pops have been here, but have just been doing generic defensive flail - so not much to vibe with there.

Where is pops defensive flailing?

In short squirel, pops is not scum hunting.

Yeah, and he seems to lack logic. I agree he's not going to be a bad dark stabbing lynch.

You agreed with my point at first, what happened?

I almost find myself wondering if town is just debating between lynching the two weakest looking players.
It's about what the cases feel about - they're practically mirror images.

Says both cases are mirror, meaning personality??

[farside22]

Oh and in case people forgot my long forgot post pages ago.
Scum team: pops, dess, beck (now squirel)

[farside22]

You pushed and use the word push laughably a vote on me and calls pops null and found both cases weak.
Where do you say you'll vote for pops if he continues his shit playing ways?

I don't think I did and I don't think i ever told you I did.
Why do I never feel like we're art of the same conversation?

You stated both cases where the same. How is it not both a playstyle thing?

Because the cases are based on the lying - I said as much a couple of times.

I saw one link you made.
If there was more please tell me where. Because the one link showed pops as active town pissed a lurkers, which makes no sense for him to do as town if he hates it so.

I note you're not taking me up on the meta challenge.
That said, you're now saying that he hates lurkers and never lurks as town?

As to your bold question - I would say a few times as town and a few times not doing it as scum brings into question the validity of suggesting it is a valid scumtell - I have said this before.

So my statement about allowing pops to continue his play gets a pass is accurate then.
Why?


So pops lie was okay? My case was never about a lie it's about not having reads or voting for anyone or pushing a case.
I still don't see why you think he should get to continue his shit play.


Hi lie much. I asked you were you posted more then one link game. You implied more then one
No I didn't say that. I asked why soneone that complains about lurkers as town would lurk.

[farside22]

See you keep saying all the case is about personilry but where the fuck is pops town this game squirel?
Why does an unvote on day 2 and no other person to vote for and a weak survilibalitic vote in iai null?
Those are scum actions and calling it null and calling others scum is shitty.

Where the fuck is my response to the question I've asked 3 time and bolded the 3rd time?!?!?!

[farside22]

Where is pops defensive flailing?

Well, pretty much every post he made since I replaced in where he was basically complaining about his persecutors.

In short squirel, pops is not scum hunting.

Yeah, and he seems to lack logic. I agree he's not going to be a bad dark stabbing lynch.

You agreed with my point at first, what happened?

Note that I call it a 'dark stabbing lynch'.
As in 'A stab in the dark'.
As in - http://www.idiomeanings.com/idioms/take ... -the-dark/

Remember when you were saying I was calling him town and I said I wasn't?
This is further proof of that.

Says both cases are mirror, meaning personality??

Stop asking things twice when I still haven't had time to respond to the first one - it's making it hard to keep up with the constant barrage and making me doubt that you're as interested in talking to me as in talking at me.

I don't see that as defensive flailing, just defense.

Sorry for the Same question twice but you are defending a null read for shitty reasoning and I think you scum so there is that too.

[farside22]

I think I extracted the main points;

So you will let pops lurk and make no cases and continue to call it null, while people pushing for the lynch is scum?

This is ridiculous and has no bearing on anything I've said.

Also you asked for meta, because you disagreed, them asked for no meta on iai is highly sudpect

Please point out the point raised about IAI that was based on playstyle and I'll agree that I dropped the ball.
The issue raised there was basically the lie. I also didn't question the meta of the lie issue as applied to Pops.
Your hypocrisy complaint here is pretty empty.

Also why aren't you linking the games your citing as evidence against me?

I have linked some and have not linked others - are you coming out and saying those games don't exist and your meta check was deep enough to know that they don't?
If you agree to that I'll link all of them.
If not, I don't see why I need to post games to show your meta check was shallow, because you're already aware of it.

By the way you should read this post and squirel response for why I don't see a clear response as to where pops play should be questioned or pushed for more and instead tied up the case under meta which to me means pops is allowed to continue doing nothing this game.

Let me know squirel when you can, when I point out in our large normal about Neil not posting his reads in that game you didn't check his meta to see if that was null?

[farside22]

@SKrew: most people would not react quite the way you did to reinoe's behavior, that's what I meant by personal. Not personal as in "you deliberately rubbed ketchup on my favorite sweater, now it's personal", but personal as in personality, I don't think most people would get upset and interpret reinoe as actively trying to prolong RVS stage to fog the air, I think most would just find it funny.
Thus it was unlikely Konowa had the same reaction.

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta. Even in a game that's somewhat dense, I expect more to resonate when I read his posts.

I tend to hate hate hate "punish people for posting" strategies, they are not protown at all. Not voting Konowa because he hasn't said enough to fill up the evidence room yet means redirecting attention to players who are active enough that we can read them better in subsequent days. The trend can discourage town aggregate post counts too, which is bad.

Konowa has enough scumminess per post density to outweigh most other verbose players anyway.


@farside22: it would be protown to ignore the "what does RVS mean" question if goofy thought it was not useful and would create more distraction than good. Once sleepykrew starts spamming the question to get a response, it becomes antitown to refuse to answer, any answer would shut him up and clear the game. goofy's refusal to answer is scummy to me for that reason, it seems like he is more concerned about the risk of a little exposure of his own posting than he is about letting the thread get on with things.
I don't think the results of the question would have been alignment indicative, but skrew seems to think so, so he might as well have humored him.

Pop started out by adding fluff to his posts maybe in some lighthearted attempt to lighten up the start of the game, or maybe to add more perceived content. Since then Pop hasn't contributed a lot of personal reads, rather than a line here or there about the current conversation, and a tunnel on someone who has posted 4 times rather than looking elsewhere while you wait for them to post seems like you either stick to your guns and ignore the rest of the scum(poor town play), or you legitimately think that you can get the target mislynched(scum). I'd like to see your reaction to this thought and how you

I just wanted to get people talking about a lynch with strong merits instead of discussing sleepykrew and reinoe's blind pillowfightings. It seemed like a better catalyst for the development of the daygame. I felt seeing people's reactions to that sort of wagon had more value. RC's lackluster response to the topic has cast much more doubt on him than which of his favorite pillows he roots for, for instance

IAI, Redcoyote can be hard to read, but I'm getting a lack of initiative from him today that is pretty scummy, especially given his meta.

I have yet to play with Red, care sharing the points of his meta you are referring to here?

He usually makes a couple keen observations. He doesn't necessarily crack the whole lobster open and pick the scummeat out day one, but he'll ask a question that seems wise to ask, or be proactive in some other way.
He and IAI are fighting for second place on my list right now.

When I read Beck post "If this game is 18 pages of reinoe and SK fighting I'm going to lose motivation", it resonated a little bit. I've had trouble digging into this game, and that's a big part of why. The spat between the two of them has gone a long, long, time. I've seen pretty big town on town spats. But I've never seen such a protracted one of this, that goes on and on.

At first I thought neither was scum, but the amount of filth they have filled the thread with has left me doubtful. There'd be more mutual interest in letting things drop for a moment for the good of the town.

I've had a gut town read on reinoe for a long time due to his carefree nature, but a null read on sleepy. Belligerence is cloudy to me. My gut doesn't tell me much about him, but my head realizes that there is a defensive component to his nagging, repetitive, cyclical desire to be right and to be identified as the "victor" of the engagement with reinoe, which has survivalist qualities to it. Reinoe doesn't seem to care as much, at least to me.

Vote: SleepyKrew

I was trying to be abundantly clear that I had made a change in stance. SK vs. reinoe is clogging the productivity of this thread and it's exploded to such ridiculous levels that I'm interpreting it differently now.

It's not even realistic to try to do real scumhunting on RC or IAI until the tumor is excised. RC has improved a little bit, so that's less exciting, and IAI hasn't posted that much, and apparently based on Konowa's amazingly popular lurkerscum playstyle I've learned that if you keep your post count low enough you have lynchproof power role.

IAI is probably a bit scummier and RC has drawn to about even but I'd really like to improve the dynamic of the day game here by getting half the pair out of the game.

Maybe I should wait a night and hope we have a vig, idk

Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy. Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability. If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

Yea I took a moment to find this:

farside's interpretations of this game are completely bonkers. I want to hold to the idea that she's just really far out there, but it is growing increasingly hard to do that. I'm glad you agree at least that the case is bad because I consider you to be as impartial a player as we've got given that you've spent most of your time going after Goofy (and I have been vocally against that).

That was rc post.

I'm tempted to vote rc and the hop on cooldog bothers me.

That is a startling lack of internal consistency. I don't know if there's enough hours left to lynch RC, tough.
My vote is certainly not parked anywhere better, so we can see if there is.

Vote: RedCoyote

The call for the end of the day is a little off too. People were actually posting a bit productively around that time

With the bodyguard claim I think the best thing to do is to let RC live. The most powerful use for the role is if a scummy townie gets it, and dives in front of an obvtown townie, thus killing a scummy townie instead of an obvtownie and making PoE easier. Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.

Unvote

If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.


IAI made a terribly scummy post when he said that he thinks RC is scum, thinks exactly one of {RC, cooldog} is scum, and voted cooldog. It's not internally consistent at all for him to do that. He should be on Drew if that's actually the way he feels, but I think he's faking his reads.
I don't think there's time for an IAI lynch though.

Vote: Drew

If this causes a third claim, it's not that bad a drawback at this point, the scum can't shoot multiple PRS in one night. And hey, we might have a bodyguard. Of course, the main reason for my preference is I think Cooldog is less likely to flip scum.

Cooldog's flipout on farside doesn't look like an earnest effort to find the scum on his wagon. Why you bein so hard to like CD?

So, RC's failure to dive for a bullet for reinoe casts some more doubt on his slot. I don't care if he roleblockage or selecting a different player is his excuse.

Part of me wants to give him another night, part of me wants to see how he flips. Because if he flips town then to me that looks really bad for Skrew, because his

Since RC is certainly a scummy towny if he's a townie at all, townRC should be given at least two nights to try to use the ability to its fullest extent.
Unvote
If he hasn't managed to make a dive by then, he needs to die. The role is like 15% confirmable or something with a high rate of false negatives that if he hasn't managed to make a successful dive, then it's scummy.

This reads like setting up an RC mislynch to win the game. I need to double check but I'm pretty sure the numbers line up.

Is packed to bursting with cognitive dissonance when Skrew is voting RC and holding him as a prime suspect. It only makes sense if Skrew knows RC is town, which would be a scumslip.

Trying to implicate another player for lining up the lynch of your top suspect has so much wtfbbq hypocrisy that requires a bad alignment to slilp into that the posting is bad enough without RC's flip.

I see the parallel, Skrew.

I don't care what RC's excuse is because scumRC would always have an excuse. It doesn't seem to matter what the excuse is if townBG RC can't get himself dead. I guess I shouldn't say I don't care, if RC's excuse was really terrible then it would implicate him further.

Vote: IAI

I'm going to sheep Cyberbob a little bit here. I like his work.

You would be one of my other suspicions, IAI, but that vacay post placated me to a good extent.

unvote

Skrew is one of my other suspects. As I expressed D1, I feel like the Skrew vs. reinoe drivel that lasted all D1 didn't seem like town vs. town, and Skrew seems excessively defensive all game.

Goofydood and Beck are not my favorite slots either

IAI's not a bad lynch. I liked his recent posting but his day one posting was pretty lackluster.

Sorry for the multi quote stuff, it is easier when phone posting to put my thoughts on each below all the quotes then trying to figure out where to fit my thoughts in while phone posting.

Step by step here.

Most of day one pops talked about what he expected from scum. Riding low, not enjoying the game. Then he sort of pushed on rc but never voted him when he see's the scummy aspect.
However he chosen instead to go after Skrew for the nagging and repetition which is far from fucking scummy.
Then 2 days before deadline he votes Drew just as the "lesser of two evils".
Once I start talking about rc, pops chimes in and this is where I start seeing technical mafia terminology instead of reasoning found by a personal experience.
Post 929 is more technical terminology and as you see even though pops claimed his vote was the lesser of two evils he was not a fan of cooldog's post or scum hunting.
Post 1160 is pops calling rc possible scum for not protecting renioe and then more technical mafia terminology.
Finally we have the weak sheep vote, unvoting of iai (even though he never stated an issue that iai addressed) to not pushing any case at all today and just wanting to vote iai once again for no fucking reason.

Someone other the squirell or dess needs to say if this case is just a personity thing.

[farside22]

You have me one link as town and that was it squirel.
Where are the rest of the times pops did it as town?

And let's say lurking it's helpful how is nothing as far as scum reads mean it something at all?

[farside22]

I don't see it as personal, but that shouldn't surprise anyone as I voted with you. Has anyone played with Squirrel before? Does she typically defend scum buddies? It seems as though Pops tried to distance a little, keeping Beck on the scum list but not explaining it much, then Squirrel leaps in and starts to defend so hard that he lurks possibly in an attempt to not acknowledge the defense and ruin his attempts to distance.

Just a few thoughts before lock.

It's my theory.
Let pops lurk, use meta as fake reason to keep him at null, allow scum buddy to lurk and lynch some else = profit.

[farside22]

So my statement about allowing pops to continue his play gets a pass is accurate then.
Why?

There is a difference in me being okay with the quality of the play and me thinking the play is scummy.

So pops lie was okay? My case was never about a lie it's about not having reads or voting for anyone or pushing a case.
I still don't see why you think he should get to continue his shit play.

Quote me EVER saying Pops lie was okay and I'll bother to try to defend the statement.

Hi lie much. I asked you were you posted more then one link game. You implied more then one

Okay.

No I didn't say that. I asked why soneone that complains about lurkers as town would lurk.

I don't know, that is a question to address to him, I can only offer my opinion on the situation - not defend the playstyle. You already have me on record as not being particularly supportive of his playstyle, so I don't know why you think i consdier it the best thing ever and am obligated to defend it as such. I don't find his play consistant even in games I know for a fact he was town in, so I'm not going to try to justify it here.

Where the fuck is my response to the question I've asked 3 time and bolded the 3rd time?!?!?!

WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR ABILITY TO READ YOU JERK!

As to your bold question - I would say a few times as town and a few times not doing it as scum brings into question the validity of suggesting it is a valid scumtell - I have said this before

.

You have not explain why you are okay with pops play other then to throw meta at people.
People lurk.
Yes
People don't give reads at l1 as town, rarely.
Pops does this? Once but he called out lurkers so that is still doing something. There is secrete other games I'm not linking pops did as town.
Fake meta thanks

[farside22]

Last time I played with squirel she didn't ask me to meta search the players I was scum reading.

This game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[farside22]

Am I the only one that knows who Squirrely is? This information was recently opened to the public. I've even mentioned it a couple of times.

Mala?

I recall something about an alt but can't remember who.

[farside22]

Mala?

What I don't look for alts or feel like researching.
You know what time it is?

[farside22]

@Goofy - I didn't realize we were already hammered. Are you intentionally not offering any opinions about what went down than? Your posting has been quite empty since the hammer, why is that?

You have me one link as town and that was it squirel.
Where are the rest of the times pops did it as town?

And let's say lurking it's helpful how is nothing as far as scum reads mean it something at all?

As I said - I'd provide them if you wanted to claim that your meta research was good enough to believe they don't exist.
Otherwise you're admitting that you haven't done any real meta research - in which case you should be aware that there is a lot of stuff out there you didn't bother to consider, and at that point I'm not sure why you're so focused on batting at my conclusions.

Which are you claiming?

I hope my last two posts will amuse Squirrely.

They're okay. Though I will note I am not particularly advertising my main because this alt is intentionally being played in a totally different way and my goal was to establish this playstyle enough prior to allowing my main to switch over without the awkward inbetween time first.

But I've slip revealed a handful of times - I just am trying not to advertise it. I would prefer you react to me as this playstyle, rather than hanging the old weights on my neck.

@Squirrel: interesting. Farside's been pushing pops for quite a long time. If they're both scum, it's the most brutal and pointless bussing I've ever heard of (aside from dayvigging a buddy who's not been pressured at all and other nonsense.) So my conclusion, or more like the natural conclusion imo is that those two cannot be buddies. Any opinion on this?

I would agree that Farside and Pops are unlikely to be same alignment in an inverse way from the way Farside and IAI are not. Yes.
I'm not sure where you're going with this though.

Oh dear fucking god.
I did asked why didn't you include the links that you referenced, you stated you did some (one is not some) and now you say I offered them to you.
Great, fabulous great.
Are you just trying to create a circle of not providing evidence?

Again I said a bit of meta research but hey I'll tell you what I will stalk the next game you play, lurk and make shitty cases and you can defend it as null.
Never mind in my case I pointed out pops unvote as a lie that you never mentioned. Never mind I pointed out as scum he uses mafia terminology more, which you ignored, never mind the one link you provided was an active and trying to figure things out pops town.
Let's let pops continue to not play the game and lynch someone more active that is scum hunting.

Sure I'm creating a game called opposite land mafia but that not this game.

[farside22]

Actually, I think I sold myself, and we only have two days left and it doesn't look like my cuteness factor has kicked in yet for sheeping;

Unvote: Farside
Vote: IAI

L-1

If this is a scum flip - I would highly suggest a Farside lynch next. Like, highly, highly.

Does inverse mean I'm scum with iai or not?

[farside22]

My question is in regards to this comment from squirel

I would agree that Farside and Pops are unlikely to be same alignment in an inverse way from the way Farside and IAI are not. Yes.

[farside22]

Yup opposite is inverse.
So iai flips scum I'm scum iai flips town, I'm scum.
Wow.

[farside22]

In before lynch.
Please lynch pops tomorrow


Xoxo

Far

[farside22]

Bah!

[farside22]

I don't see it as personal, but that shouldn't surprise anyone as I voted with you. Has anyone played with Squirrel before? Does she typically defend scum buddies? It seems as though Pops tried to distance a little, keeping Beck on the scum list but not explaining it much, then Squirrel leaps in and starts to defend so hard that he lurks possibly in an attempt to not acknowledge the defense and ruin his attempts to distance.

Just a few thoughts before lock.

It's my theory.
Let pops lurk, use meta as fake reason to keep him at null, allow scum buddy to lurk and lynch some else = profit.

Best call from me the whole game.

Damn stubborn people.

I didn't think much of rc after the claim, my only downfall.

Gg scum team.

[farside22]

As I said I've seen more fake claim like renioe did from town.
This is the second game scum fake claimed a protective role and one did not exsist.
Sigh.

[farside22]

Pops: you should work in your meta.
I pointed out pops tendency to bus and no one followed through with that.
Sad face.

[farside22]

My thought and why I tracked the players I did.
Beck felt like the scum. I told of I thought scum would buss with cooldog.
When sk brought up the points on pops I did a slight meta check to see he is typically more verbose.
I was pissed how people let pops slide through and SG fake he does that is null was crap.

I thought goofy might be scum with pops at the end of day 2.

[farside22]

I need to work on my anger when people made shit cases.

[farside22]

The thing you guys seem to be missing is that being right is only half the battle - you can be 100% correct in your reads at all times and still lose if you act like an obnoxious prick that nobody likes to be around (let alone listen to and take seriously). Sure you can sit around looking smug after a game and berate the rest of your team for being so stupid and wrong about everything, but this is a team game. Win or lose everyone on a team contributes in some part to the outcome.

I think my only issue is you didn't really come across as trying to play as a team and just stubbornly sat there.
Granted you were correct about cool dog but you could not seem to get around the too scummy to be scum idea.
Yes scum can be scummy. There is the is the person giving reads and have the experience thought process that I just could not get you to come around to.
While iai is jumping at you and bleeding town pops literally got to sit back and do nothing and you were okay with that.
In my view that mentality makes zero sense.

Do I think iai case was bad? Yes. Did I agree with him? No.
Did I like Renoie's play? No. Was he responsible for the loss? No.
Did my actions at the end if day 2 seem justified? No.
Every person is responsible, I think most are mad at you because you held your ground for 2 game days and continued even after Drew flipped town to go after emotion rather then scum.