Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Varsoon

For stuttering.

[Zebulin]

Got what I needed.
UNVOTE:

What, exactly, did you need?

[Zebulin]

V/LA 11/26/11/30

As in, back on 11/30. Thanksgiving's going to give all the games a break.

[Zebulin]

I was curious how you would respond to the uberfast wagon, and you seem very town now. You were my top scum pick page 1 (very very mildly scum). Same reason as randomidget. I think randomidget backing off was neutral in scummyness. Goblin should say why he voted. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt early d1, everyone's just saying stupid stuff to try to get reactions and get information. In a way the most careful players d1 are scum. I'm just typing all my thoughts in one paragraph, completely unrelated to one another.

Oh, and because I'll be gone: UNVOTE: Varsoon Goblin's my top scumpick due to unexplained stuff, but I won't vote due to V/LA.

[Zebulin]

I'm back!

Reading, should post tomorrow.

[Zebulin]

Alright, so I'm going to read and post my thoughts per page as I go. If I ask a question that gets answered later just ignore the question, I'm going to be transparent with my thinking so everyone gets the information (and general information is better for town than scum).

Page 6:

Thor and Allyra are arguing a lot. They're answering each other's points correctly. Not much.

Page 7:

VOTE: Allyra

You're not answering a lot of Thor's questions, hoping they'll go away. (Mostly in post 153.) You say

Good description of my scum motive.

Oh that's okay you're scum. I'm not interested in Continuing a wall off with you. Those are wholly unproductive, clutter up the game, and you do nothing but harp on semantic bullshit most of the time regardless of your alignment.

But I think that boonskies actually voted me because I'm voting you. He did not once comment about that vote and changed his reasoning for thinking I'm scum too often. I do not think someone thinks I'm scum for having a town read. I do not think that you, as town, ignores that in favor of getting after me for missing a couple posts.

So, I'm not interested in causing a distraction with you. I fully expect o get lynched here because no one knows me and I know how much you tunnel and harangue about being sheeped.

My job is not to entertain some silly debate with you, my job is to show everyone why you're scum, which I will do until in dead.

This basically amounts to "Debating you is pointless, I will try to get you lynched until I die." This is TERRIBLE. Why would you do this? Debating gives town info, info gives town viable scumreads, viable scumreads kill scum and make us all happy. I gt it if you don't want to spend your time arguing with Thor (most people don't), but I wouldn't recommend replacing into a game with him in it if you were so dreading that so much. Just tellig someone to stop arguing is a HUGE scum move.

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader, randommidget

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Here you randomly give randomidget a townread when you didn't give him one two posts ago and explain nothing. Again, why would you do this?

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

Page 8:

Konowa seems really town as he explains himself to Allyra. Allyra is town on this page, but doesn't make up for page 7. Randomidget doesn't explain his vote very well, hopefully he does on the later pages. Most posts here are 1-line and Konowa just telling Allyra why he's not scum.


I'll read and post my thoughts on the rest tomorrow!

[Zebulin]

Page 9:

Allyra says Thor is ovbscum without saying why Thor is ovb scum. Twice.

At this point I think that either Thor or Allyra is scum but not both (they would be bussing way too hard for that, and both are Mafia Scum so they've played a few games). If one of the two gets lynched and flips town I'd lynch the other one. Allyra and Thor both attack each other for a while. 1 of the 2 is probably scum.

Page 10:

Boonskies is buddying Randomidget a little bit. Allyra is being very defensive. Allyra just replaced.

...That is a huge post.

Allyra seems real now. I'm not sure scum would get that frustrated over Konowa poking her for information, and Konowa wasn't particularly mean about it at all. Everything that Allyra just said sounds like the truth. Thor's follow-up post doesn't do him any favors either. Why the unexplained vote on Randomidget? That's the second time someone changed their read on Randomidget without any context for it.

UNVOTE: orcinus_theoriginal Interesting study btw
VOTE: Thor

gamsimbre seems town. Doesn't seem like he's hiding anything.

Page 11:

Thor is insulting his wagon, and is being generally distant from every single complaint about him. I don't like this.

Also, this post from Randomidget sums it all up:

I am seriously lolling at how many people are voting me without providing any reasons.

Page 12:

Orcinus is a lot more town than Allyra. Providing reasons for votes and whatnot.

Orcinus and Thor go back and forth for a while. Not much new info (that I picked up on).

[Zebulin]

This is an interesting chain of comments.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Boonskies

He was buddying Thor basically the entire game (I meant to put Thor instead of Randomidget in post 351) and I feel that the vote without a claim was a desperate attempt to gain towncred by voting off a scum player (Boonskies is Mafia Scum so he's played a good amount of games). Either the guy is trolling the entire game, he's playing reckless due to lack of time/care/ITSMOREFUNTHISWAY, or he's scum. I suspect the latter.

Varsoon: That was a pretty bad scumcase on orcinus_theoriginal, you did not have any concrete evidence (or even kinda good evidence like my Boonskies case). I don't see how those quotes make Orc scum. Also, if Allyra replaces out for game strategy she will get modkilled (or at least you will in newbie games).

[Zebulin]

Case on Boonskies (quotes):

Page 10:

Boonskies is buddying Randomidget a little bit.

Allyra is being very defensive. Allyra just replaced.

...That is a huge post.

Allyra seems real now. I'm not sure scum would get that frustrated over Konowa poking her for information, and Konowa wasn't particularly mean about it at all. Everything that Allyra just said sounds like the truth. Thor's follow-up post doesn't do him any favors either. Why the unexplained vote on Randomidget? That's the second time someone changed their read on Randomidget without any context for it.

Explain how I'm buddying him, please. He's my 2nd biggest scum read, and I've been vocal about that. If Allyra slot didn't come into play (or if I didn't lean scum on the replacement into the slot) my vote would be on Rando. I'm going to assume you meant to put a different name there.

Where were you vocal of Thor before this post? I just ISO'd you, and I saw nothing on Thor as him being scum. Heck, I saw this about 5 posts in:

But since that's not the case...congratulations, Thor. You earned yourself a town read from me.

Here is a vote on Randomidget with no real explanation (and Randomidget is confirmed town now):

VOTE: Randomidget

That freakout seems legit. Inb4 Konowa/Allyra scum team...LOLOL.

And of course, here, the hammer without a claim:

Eh. =/

VOTE: Thor

Hammer.

Why did you do this??? It doesn't help you town or scum, and it sets up a policy lynch (which I am totally on board with due to thinking Boonskies should be lynched anyways ) You didn't explain at all during Twilight, only saying you were troll hammering for fun. That hammer, in the view of town, was anti-town even though it helped us, because Thor didn't get a chance to claim. You're either scum or being a VI, and you're capable of non-VI play.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Just noticed that this is what Boonskies said gave Thor a townread;

Eh, if I was scum with Thor and you voted him, I would have voted him as well. I'm a troll like that.

Meta defense that turns out to actually mean Boonskies is scum; Allyra's replacement voted Thor and Boonskies did as well.


Boonskies: I'm only 99% convinced of this read at this point, and I'm not going to vote you if you can answer every point I've made in my last 2 posts.

Orcinus: I'm voting for my highest scumread, not the one that's most likely to go through, because I half think Varsoon's just being reckless as town.

Varsoon: Lay off the caps lock, man. It's a bit severe.

[Zebulin]

This is an interesting chain of comments.

Reads?

Town:

Xiao Long
Orcinus

Null:

acryon
Konowa
BlueBloodedToffee

Lurk:

Drake Crusader/gamsimbre/Goblin

Scum:

Varsoon:
Boonskies:


As for the 10 town: I know this isn't a role madness game, and I can't think of a setup with 4 or 2 scum that's balanced at this point (with at least 1 mafia goon and 2 vanilla townies). Us assuming there's 3 scum for when to play in lylo and taking the chance we're wrong is better imo than not knowing/paying attention to that part of the game.

[Zebulin]

Huh.

BlueBloodedToffee's become very town. Varsoon's brcome null. I think at this point that the remaining scumteam is Boonskies and a lurker (probably Goblin).

Konowa, could you stop using self-meta defenses? They don't convince anyone that you're town and they don't help scumhunting. It's filler.

Varsoon, I fell you're being too careful this game. Take some risks, try to get some reactions, stuff like that.

Drake, what are your reads?

[Zebulin]

OH my sig's not showing up

Blue text for me is always sarcasm

[Zebulin]

Yeah, I'm actually reading Xiao town from the exchange. Comes off as the kind of frustration I have when people don't seem to ACTUALLY be reading what I'm saying, and then they insist on their non-reading over and over again.

Regardless.

Lynch Goblin.

VOTE: Goblin

Goblin's about to be replaced. You shouldn't vote him now; the replacement could iether confirm him as scum or offer some town insight, and both possibilities are great.

Xiao Long: Why the heck did you just vote yourself? What purpose did that serve? Cmon, you were my strongest townread.

Acryon: Family > Arguing online with random people.

Also, I feel like someone asked me a question but I forget which one. What was it?

[Zebulin]

uhm....scum replacing out? or just doesn't want to deal with defending himself?

Maybe he just doesn't want to or have time to play.

[Zebulin]

Zeb- How often do you get scum reads off page 1? How often are those reads accurate? And do you give the benefit of the doubt on d1 or scumread people? #335 is a Debating is inherently fine, but when it starts to become an argument over semantics who gives a fucking shit. I think I hate everything you said in that post. Konowa didn’t sound town at all in his interactions with All, and even just hearing it leaves a dirty feeling on my eyes.

You

HAVE

to have scumreads. At the very least you have to have some people who are more town and some who are less town. If you don't have this then you're not making an impact on the game, which is really really bad for town, great for scum, and makes you a easy lynch because someone will notice (one reason Xiao dropped from town to neutral on general reads). I know my Page 1 scumreads are probably wrong, but it's better than random chance.

What's the problem over #335? If you're talking about the semantics issue, Orc calmly explained that to me earlier.

Also, why am I 2nd to last in your scumread/die in a fire pile, when you have more bad things to say about someone like Varsoon (who was in your town pile)? And could you point out who's scum for you and who's die in a fire for you?

Also, Orc, if you want stupid nwebies IC or SE a newbie game.

[Zebulin]

Try to argue professionally, please. I'd prefer not to have two players modkilled. It makes the game unfun.

[Zebulin]

Try to argue professionally, please.

hello my name is orci i'm a professional arguer

Nice to meet you, Orci. I'm Zeb.

[Zebulin]

Alright, I'm 100% on ScumSkies now. I don't think that a player would replace out of a game due to a bus that she herself started, I disagree with Boonkies' townread of me's reason (effort is not indicative of alignment. You're totally on about how involved I am in this game), the fact that he's sheeping Varsoon way too easily, the fact he voted Orc less then a page after calling him town, the opinion that Thor/Orc scumteam is more likely then Thor/BBT (Allyra REPLACED OUT, you normally don't do that when bussing a scumbuddy because you know the outrage that your buddy is showing is fake), and everything everyone else has said.

[Zebulin]

Post 903. You call Orc town.

[Zebulin]

Quoting it for good measure.

This kind of thing just makes me want to do more trolly scummy things. You want a list, I'll give you my best thing, but it'll be crap because I can't read people as town early game.

Xiao Long - no fucking clue.
Varsoon - could go either way, i think he's super opportunistic, I feigned a town read on him early game to try and see if he'd buddy up, which I believe he did in some sort. Lean scum.
Formerfish - town willing to PL for the sske of 'teaching a lesson'. (won't, will have the opposite effect, to be honest.)
Drake Crusader - who?
Konowa - lean scum, but not with Varsoon. This is one of my bad early town reads that could go either way. He slyly buddy'd with Thor, and after that just seems kind of scummy. I always scum read Konowa everytime I play with him though.
Boonskiies - vanilla as fuck. it's why I don't care.
Zebulin - i don't think he's interested enough to be scum. He just hops on whatever to try and make a point. He wants to play, but isn't necessarily too into the game.

Town.

acryon - same as former.
orcinus_theoriginal - town due to the Thor situation.
BlueBloodedToffee - dead null. if Varsoon flips town, he's scum.
gamsimbre - don't remember.

[Zebulin]

Alright, I'm 100% on ScumSkies now. I don't think that a player would replace out of a game due to a bus that she herself started, I disagree with Boonkies' townread of me's reason (effort is not indicative of alignment. You're totally on about how involved I am in this game), the fact that he's sheeping Varsoon way too easily, the fact he voted Orc less then a page after calling him town, the opinion that Thor/Orc scumteam is more likely then Thor/BBT (Allyra REPLACED OUT, you normally don't do that when bussing a scumbuddy because you know the outrage that your buddy is showing is fake), and everything everyone else has said.

Really? So, you think Boon is scum for this theory but not Varsoon? I mean, I think Varsoon pretty much started the day saying Orc Vs Thor was scum theatre so I'm interested in why you are focusing on Boon for this.

I have a scumread on Varsoon right now, too, but Boonskiies is much much much more scum for all the reasons I've already stated, and I'm most comfortable with a lynch on him

Very Town:

Randomidget

Town:

orcinus_theoriginal

Lean Town:

acryon, Formerfish

Null:

Xiao Long, BlueBloodedToffee, Konowa

I Have No Idea:

gamsimbre, Drake Crusader

Lean Scum:
Scum:

Varsoon

Very Scum:

Boonskiies, Thor665

Also, BBT, why won't you post your reads?

[Zebulin]

What reasons am I sum for? I forgot.

ISO me. There you go.

Also, hello Killerjester!

[Zebulin]

I can't even.

Vote: Drake Crusader

killer, it wasn't that I was being dodgy it was that the question didn't interest me at the time. I was more interested in trying to figure out Allyra.

Why did you just vote Drake? Explain your vote.

Killerjester: I'd prefer to keep my vote on my most scummy player, though I'm ok with a Varsoon lynch as of right now.

[Zebulin]

...that sounded really town.

Varsoon, the main reason I have a scumread on you (and I think the main reason people are scumreading you) is because you twisted Konowa's words to make him seem like he's saying "I'm scum" when he was saying "The case on me boils down to 'I'm scum because I'm scum' which is circular logic and shouldn't be taken as real logic". Twisting words is not something that town should do, and that entire case seems like a huge scumtell. Everything else you've done in my eyes is null/town, but that case is just awful.

[Zebulin]

Other than awkward interaction with Thor and a shitty push on Allya and literally no D2 presence, here's the gold:

Yes.

It's a scummy post because she's seen Scum do something like that before, but if I said I considered myself a toprated scumhunter it wouldn't have been false bravado, it would have been me being me, but she knows I don't consider myself great which is why it pinged, but if I had lied it would have made it worse. Read here for reference.

So, I'm Scum because I'm Scum.

If you are Town, I think what is going over you head is that you are confusing considering oneself a "toprated scumhunter" (LAWL at that by the way) and being confident. Those are two -entirely- different things.

Yes.

It's a scummy post because she's seen Scum do something like that before, but if I said I considered myself a toprated scumhunter it wouldn't have been false bravado, it would have been me being me, but she knows I don't consider myself great which is why it pinged, but if I had lied it would have made it worse. Read here for reference.

So, I'm Scum because I'm Scum.

If you are Town, I think what is going over you head is that you are confusing considering oneself a "toprated scumhunter" (LAWL at that by the way) and being confident. Those are two -entirely- different things.

Yes.

It's a scummy post because she's seen Scum do something like that before, but if I said I considered myself a toprated scumhunter it wouldn't have been false bravado, it would have been me being me, but she knows I don't consider myself great which is why it pinged, but if I had lied it would have made it worse. Read here for reference.

So, I'm Scum because I'm Scum.

If you are Town, I think what is going over you head is that you are confusing considering oneself a "toprated scumhunter" (LAWL at that by the way) and being confident. Those are two -entirely- different things.

So, I'm Scum because I'm Scum.

I'm Scum.

I made it size 300.
How do people miss these things?

Quoted for proof. Take a look at the original, full post Konowa made.

[Zebulin]

PEdit: I cannot detect sarcasm on the internet. Whoops. I thought you were either a VI or scum desperately trying to fabricate reads on that post.

[Zebulin]

This part of the post was written a page and a half ago, and I thought I had hit "Post" but hadn't.

Alright, I just ISO'd Drake and there is literally NO new content that has been posted. Everything he's saying is just sheeping and hoping one of the top 3 scumreads (Konowa, Varsoon, Boonskiies) goes in, which is actually makinig me think those 3 are town and

the scumteam could be something crazy like Drake/Orc.

(If that actually happens I called it first.)

HOWEVER

We should give Drake at least a chance at explaining himself/deal with the way-too-fast wagon that's going up before we put the guy at L-1.

Drake: What's your answer to everything anyone's said the last 3 pages?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Varsoon: Why the unannounced vote on Drake? You haven't stated anything on Drake for basically the entire game.

[Zebulin]

if i was scum this game i deserve a scummy

unfortunately i am not scum and thus do not deserve a scummy

if

i was scum

this game i deserve a scummy

unfortunately i am not scum and thus do not deserve a scummy

i was scum this game i deserve a scummy

i was scum this game i deserve a scummy

Orc scum confirmed.

[Zebulin]

Can we please lynch?

We still have at least 6 days. Why would we need to lynch now?

[Zebulin]

Why another unexplained vote, Drake?

Do you have in-depth reads for everyone, or at least more in-depth than 1 line?

At this point I'd hammer you if there were less days on the clock, and I'm sure some of the other players not on your wagon would too. If you are town, though, it would be better for you to say all your reads and suspicions on players so we have something to go on.

Orc, you're probably the one who will get NK'd, so I would say your reads too.

[Zebulin]

Intent to hammer Drake

48 hours so we can use the remaining days

I feel like I've explained why earlier and his recent posts show 'scum/town that doesn't care' and neither attitude helps town. That 1108 literally asks to be lynched. I'm also worried that the wagon is getting apathetic and just forgetting about itself (like how the boys forgot Simon in

Lord of the Flies

, just stopped caring).

Also, Formerfish, I was waiting for Goblin's replacement to come in and answer questions before voting the guy, because I assumed Goblin couldn't/wouldn't play Mafia. The replacement, you, played townish so I didn't see the need to vote.

[Zebulin]

Wow people hated my last post.

Intent to hammer Drake

48 hours so we can use the remaining days

I feel like I've explained why earlier and his recent posts show 'scum/town that doesn't care' and neither attitude helps town. That 1108 literally asks to be lynched. I'm also worried that the wagon is getting apathetic and just forgetting about itself (like how the boys forgot Simon in

Lord of the Flies

, just stopped caring).

Also, Formerfish, I was waiting for Goblin's replacement to come in and answer questions before voting the guy, because I assumed Goblin couldn't/wouldn't play Mafia. The replacement, you, played townish so I didn't see the need to vote.

This pings me as all kinds of bad.
First, Drake isn't even at l-1, so hammer isn't exactly in play right now.
Second, is saying he literally asked to be lynched which is a misrep of what he actually said. What Drake is doing is falling on his sword to get a lynch through if that's what needs to happen.
Third, no one has forgotten about the wagon or that we have a deadline coming close...ish. We still have 4 days, which is plenty of time to switch gears if needed.

re: Goblin- with me replacing in you've lost all interest, so it seems, in trying to sort me and have given what seems like a town hand wave. Am I not an easily mislynch know and you've lost interest in persuing me?

1. VOTE: Drake Crusader

noonenoticedthefailzebjustdontmentionittoanyone

2. He did literally ask to be lynched.

/snip

So If you think you want me gone

might as well get it done with

or so catch a scum player.

3. I didn't say that people forgot. I said they're getting apathetic and I wanted to avoid apathy.

re. Goblin: That's a loaded question.

Are you not asking loaded questions to get a mislynch?

(What happened is that Goblin was being scummy, I was suspicious of him, then you showed up and was towny so I focused on the scummier players (Boonskiies and Drake.))

As for Lord of the Flies, I was doing a worksheet for school on it before mafiascum.net, so it was on my mind as I was typing. (Even if I was scum, I don't lie about RL affecting my playing, unless that counts as a trust tell, is which case I totally break it all the time )

BBT: Will you post your reads now?

[Zebulin]

He

implied

he wanted to be lynched. In terms of gameplay, it means the same as literally asking to be lynched.

hopefullypeopledidn'tnoticethatfailtooIreallyneedtopaymoreattentiontothisgame

[Zebulin]

No he said that if it came down to it and he was going to be the lynch then so be it.

And stop with the small text. Sack the fuck up and say what you need to say. We noticed that you called for a hammer on Drake when he was at l-2. Know what else I noticed, you actually put him at l-1 without announcing it. And I know that we are here talking about it so why would you have to, right? Because it'd be the town thing to do.

What the heck do you want me to say, Formerfish? Is there a question you have? Some read you want me to explain? You're not making it clear at all. I don't want to argue with you over something I'm not aware of, so could you please just tell me in real words and not this rhetorical nonsense what you're asking me to do?

I clearly put Drake at L-1, because I quoted a thing before voting the guy saying he was at L-1 prevote. Just in case though,

DRAKE IS AT L-1 DONT VOTE HIM PLZ

. Better?

Drake: What did

you

mean by post 1108? You're most qualified to answer this question, after all.

[Zebulin]

Both tiny texts were jokes fyi, in case you can't read them. If it bothers you that much I'll stop though, it's not that big of a deal to me.

[Zebulin]

I THOUGHT YOU WERE AT L-1. WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.

*sigh*

I wasn't going to hammer with 4 days on the clock left, and I don't understand what you mean by "clever play on words". Who was right on your stance, Formerfish or me?

[Zebulin]

Sweet, we got scum.

Drake: Were you active lurking or just didn't have much time to play? I'm curious.

[Zebulin]

...Welp.

Looks like we

didn't

get scum.

[Zebulin]

...Welp.

Looks like we

didn't

get scum.

The italicized

didn't

is a scum tell.

How?

[Zebulin]

Don't have a MafiaScum scumgame. My only scumgame was a RL one where the only 2 experienced Mafia players were scum.

I have towngames if you want!

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58712
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59151 (replaced out)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59136

[Zebulin]

I thought I could do what I did my first Newbie game and just call the entire scumteam and push the lynch single-handedly on one of them. Now we're in a losing position and everyone who's voting me are serious townreads. (Gosh darn it Boonskiies I distrusted you)

Boonskiies, Formerfish: What is every scumpoint you have on me?

[Zebulin]

Btw, Zeb, I read your post. If you really want me to do a huge list of the reasons I think you're scum, I'll do it later...probably.

DO IT NOW!

Come on Boonskiies. You're not explaining why you're voting someone outside of one point where you're using meta, which is a terrible reason to lynch someone. If you can't explain anything, I can't defend myself and you can't get any information about my slot. This is bad bad bad bad bad. Post your case. I don't want to argue in a argument that I'm not sure what it's about. (That made more sense in my head)

You too, Formerfish and Varsoon.

[Zebulin]

Why is Varsoon probably town?

Like seriously. What the fuck am I missing?

The argument for TownSoon is that his actions are mistakes as both town AND scum and are therefore not scumslips. I believe it for the most part, but the unannounced hammer was a bit ... weird.

Also, I feel that if Orc and KJ are the same alignment, and one of the two will probably be NK'd.

Boonskiies, Formerfish: Could you please post your case on me? I'm going to go on V/LA over Winter Break and I want the chance to answer your case.

[Zebulin]

Formerfish, why is your vote on me?

[Zebulin]

Because I dont like your face

Ditto.

Do you have an ACTUAL case on me?

[Zebulin]

Yeah, I do, but I don't feel like laying it out for someone who I haven't seen do any kind of scum hunting.

Smurf you, Formerfish. Smurf you.

VOTE: Formerfish



In all seriousness, that is a beyond terrible post and that vote is real. Withholding your reason for vote on a player and saying that the reason you're not posting your "case" is because that player is scummy is like saying "Hey, Player A is scum but I can't tell you why because THEN HE CAN DEFEND HIMSELF and we wouldn't want that can't we?" and that is beyond terrible. Seriously. This is ridiculously anti-town and the scummiest thing I've seen the entire game. THE ENTIRE GAME. Even my 2nd or 3rd strongest townread would become

Would do the deed myself if this was real life

level of scumminess, and I'm thinking (though I'm totally biased) that you don't actually have a case on me and just saw a possible easy lynch due to how hard I mistankenly pushed a town player, Drake. You need to post your real case, TownFish, if you want to help town at all, or you won't get the lynch you want, or ANY lynch at all, (which is town, but could be scum in the future) and even if the lynch on me is bad you could at least go for someone D4 if I die. If you don't explain your cases, you are scum and won't be listened to by anyone except Boonskiies, who seems to be mindlessly sheeping you. ScumFish, keep doing what you're doing. It's not helping town at all, so you're doing great! YOu know, I'm not even going to edit this post so you can get the full emotion of frustration with you two that is going through me right now, and I want you to feel sad that you're making a stranger on the Internet bash his head against the wall. Just explain your read before I go on vacation ad miss the chance to counterattack. Please. If you're town at all you would post your case.

Formerfish/Boonskiies: WHAT IS YOUR CASE ON ME?

Varsoon: What are the things that make sense to you?

Everyone else: What is your take on the conflict?

[Zebulin]

Yeah, I do, but I don't feel like laying it out for someone who I haven't seen do any kind of scum hunting.

You're just as bad as Formerfish AND you're sheeping. See my entire last post for why that's a terrible reason to have a scumcase. FYI, I have scumhunted. You can see it in my ISO (when I try to link it it doesn't work for some reason). Go ahead and look at that.

VOTE: Boonskiies Same reason as Formerfish, but Boonskiies was scummier early game.

Varsoon: Lynch Boonskiies/Formerfish today, and if the lynched flips town then lynch me D4. I'm 99% on Boonskiies or Formerfish or both being scum at this point, as they won't lay any sort of case on me out. If they actually post a legitimate case on me (at this point I don't expect it to happen) then that will change.

Boonskiies, Formerfish: Post a case on me.

[Zebulin]

Stop asking for our cases, cases are for scumbags.

Do you have anything else on me to explain your vote or is it solely because I refuse to play your reindeer games? WELL YOU KNOW WHAT BLITZEN, I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR GAMES!

Seriously bro, your play today has been all defense, and I have no reason to illuminate you towards my thinking right now because you haven't shown me town play at all. Now if you want to call that scummy have a field day, but you aren't doing shit other that omgus the fuck out of Boon and myself.

Problem is the only people posting are you me and Boonskiies. When someone else posts I do interact with them, and I did with Varsoon early D3. If other people could post more stuff I'd talk to them, but they're not so I can't.

And trust me, I could write a case that would have you voting yourself cause its just that damn good.

Do it.

Yeah, I do, but I don't feel like laying it out for someone who I haven't seen do any kind of scum hunting.

You're just as bad as Formerfish AND you're sheeping. See my entire last post for why that's a terrible reason to have a scumcase. FYI, I have scumhunted. You can see it in my ISO (when I try to link it it doesn't work for some reason). Go ahead and look at that.

VOTE: Boonskiies Same reason as Formerfish, but Boonskiies was scummier early game.

Varsoon:

Lynch Boonskiies/Formerfish today, and if the lynched flips town then lynch me D4. I'm 99% on Boonskiies or Formerfish or both being scum

at this point, as they won't lay any sort of case on me out. If they actually post a legitimate case on me (at this point I don't expect it to happen) then that will change.

Boonskiies, Formerfish: Post a case on me.

This is a scum tell. You aren't positive we're both scum, and you think one of us is scum, and you are willing to give up yourself to get one of us lynched toDay. If one of us flip town, you immediately assume the other word be town? What good would having yourself offered as a lynch do if we are lynched and flip town, specifically only one of us lynched and flip town. Why wouldn't you immediately pursue the other one after instead of giving up? I'm happy where my vote is.

This WOULD be correct, but you didn't see/"conveinently forgot" the

for both

. What I'm saying is that I'm so confident at least one of you two are scum that I'd risk my in-game life on it, and I would. If both of you flip town then kill me off, I'm a VI and look super scummy. (Don't take that out of context in size 300 font Varsoon )

(snipped a facepalm so I had 12 smileys)

[Zebulin]

KJ, what are your thoughts on Formerfish?

[Zebulin]

My reason for voting Formerfish and Boonskiies is that they are voting someone (me) without posting a legitamite reason for it, and saying that he does hve a good reason but won't post it because I'm "not scumhunting". I am scumhunting, and I'm trying to find out if Formerfish and Boonskiies are scum or not in response to my questions. I have scumhunted before in the past, mostly on Thor D1 and Varsoon and Formerfish D2.

Formerfish: IF you're actually town, you should post your case so that the other players can hear it and agree with it. You can't lynch someone with just 2 players on the wagon.

[Zebulin]

V/LA 12/22 through 12/27

Reads as of right now:

Very Town:
Town:

Orcinus_theoriginal, acryon, killerjester

Leaning Town:

Varsoon

Null:

Xiao Long

Leaning Scum:
Scum:
Very Scum:

Formerfish, Boonskiies

[Zebulin]

Spoiler: Massive block of scumhunting

Alright, so I'm going to read and post my thoughts per page as I go. If I ask a question that gets answered later just ignore the question, I'm going to be transparent with my thinking so everyone gets the information (and general information is better for town than scum).

Page 6:

Thor and Allyra are arguing a lot. They're answering each other's points correctly. Not much.

Page 7:

VOTE: Allyra

You're not answering a lot of Thor's questions, hoping they'll go away. (Mostly in post 153.) You say

Good description of my scum motive.

Oh that's okay you're scum. I'm not interested in Continuing a wall off with you. Those are wholly unproductive, clutter up the game, and you do nothing but harp on semantic bullshit most of the time regardless of your alignment.

But I think that boonskies actually voted me because I'm voting you. He did not once comment about that vote and changed his reasoning for thinking I'm scum too often. I do not think someone thinks I'm scum for having a town read. I do not think that you, as town, ignores that in favor of getting after me for missing a couple posts.

So, I'm not interested in causing a distraction with you. I fully expect o get lynched here because no one knows me and I know how much you tunnel and harangue about being sheeped.

My job is not to entertain some silly debate with you, my job is to show everyone why you're scum, which I will do until in dead.

This basically amounts to "Debating you is pointless, I will try to get you lynched until I die." This is TERRIBLE. Why would you do this? Debating gives town info, info gives town viable scumreads, viable scumreads kill scum and make us all happy. I gt it if you don't want to spend your time arguing with Thor (most people don't), but I wouldn't recommend replacing into a game with him in it if you were so dreading that so much. Just tellig someone to stop arguing is a HUGE scum move.

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Town: varsoon, CIA long, drake crusader, randommidget

Scum: Thor, boonskies (potentially konowa)

Here you randomly give randomidget a townread when you didn't give him one two posts ago and explain nothing. Again, why would you do this?

The rest of your logic this page assumes Thor is scum, which for the 10 players who are town is completely unknown.

Page 8:

Konowa seems really town as he explains himself to Allyra. Allyra is town on this page, but doesn't make up for page 7. Randomidget doesn't explain his vote very well, hopefully he does on the later pages. Most posts here are 1-line and Konowa just telling Allyra why he's not scum.


I'll read and post my thoughts on the rest tomorrow!

Page 9:

Allyra says Thor is ovbscum without saying why Thor is ovb scum. Twice.

At this point I think that either Thor or Allyra is scum but not both (they would be bussing way too hard for that, and both are Mafia Scum so they've played a few games). If one of the two gets lynched and flips town I'd lynch the other one. Allyra and Thor both attack each other for a while. 1 of the 2 is probably scum.

Page 10:

Boonskies is buddying Randomidget a little bit. Allyra is being very defensive. Allyra just replaced.

...That is a huge post.

Allyra seems real now. I'm not sure scum would get that frustrated over Konowa poking her for information, and Konowa wasn't particularly mean about it at all. Everything that Allyra just said sounds like the truth. Thor's follow-up post doesn't do him any favors either. Why the unexplained vote on Randomidget? That's the second time someone changed their read on Randomidget without any context for it.

UNVOTE: orcinus_theoriginal Interesting study btw
VOTE: Thor

gamsimbre seems town. Doesn't seem like he's hiding anything.

Page 11:

Thor is insulting his wagon, and is being generally distant from every single complaint about him. I don't like this.

Also, this post from Randomidget sums it all up:

I am seriously lolling at how many people are voting me without providing any reasons.

Page 12:

Orcinus is a lot more town than Allyra. Providing reasons for votes and whatnot.

Orcinus and Thor go back and forth for a while. Not much new info (that I picked up on).

VOTE: Boonskies

He was buddying Thor basically the entire game (I meant to put Thor instead of Randomidget in post 351) and I feel that the vote without a claim was a desperate attempt to gain towncred by voting off a scum player (Boonskies is Mafia Scum so he's played a good amount of games). Either the guy is trolling the entire game, he's playing reckless due to lack of time/care/ITSMOREFUNTHISWAY, or he's scum. I suspect the latter.

Varsoon: That was a pretty bad scumcase on orcinus_theoriginal, you did not have any concrete evidence (or even kinda good evidence like my Boonskies case). I don't see how those quotes make Orc scum. Also, if Allyra replaces out for game strategy she will get modkilled (or at least you will in newbie games).

Case on Boonskies (quotes):

Page 10:

Boonskies is buddying Randomidget a little bit.

Allyra is being very defensive. Allyra just replaced.

...That is a huge post.

Allyra seems real now. I'm not sure scum would get that frustrated over Konowa poking her for information, and Konowa wasn't particularly mean about it at all. Everything that Allyra just said sounds like the truth. Thor's follow-up post doesn't do him any favors either. Why the unexplained vote on Randomidget? That's the second time someone changed their read on Randomidget without any context for it.

Explain how I'm buddying him, please. He's my 2nd biggest scum read, and I've been vocal about that. If Allyra slot didn't come into play (or if I didn't lean scum on the replacement into the slot) my vote would be on Rando. I'm going to assume you meant to put a different name there.

Where were you vocal of Thor before this post? I just ISO'd you, and I saw nothing on Thor as him being scum. Heck, I saw this about 5 posts in:

But since that's not the case...congratulations, Thor. You earned yourself a town read from me.

Here is a vote on Randomidget with no real explanation (and Randomidget is confirmed town now):

VOTE: Randomidget

That freakout seems legit. Inb4 Konowa/Allyra scum team...LOLOL.

And of course, here, the hammer without a claim:

Eh. =/

VOTE: Thor

Hammer.

Why did you do this??? It doesn't help you town or scum, and it sets up a policy lynch (which I am totally on board with due to thinking Boonskies should be lynched anyways ) You didn't explain at all during Twilight, only saying you were troll hammering for fun. That hammer, in the view of town, was anti-town even though it helped us, because Thor didn't get a chance to claim. You're either scum or being a VI, and you're capable of non-VI play.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Just noticed that this is what Boonskies said gave Thor a townread;

Eh, if I was scum with Thor and you voted him, I would have voted him as well. I'm a troll like that.

Meta defense that turns out to actually mean Boonskies is scum; Allyra's replacement voted Thor and Boonskies did as well.


Boonskies: I'm only 99% convinced of this read at this point, and I'm not going to vote you if you can answer every point I've made in my last 2 posts.

Orcinus: I'm voting for my highest scumread, not the one that's most likely to go through, because I half think Varsoon's just being reckless as town.

Varsoon: Lay off the caps lock, man. It's a bit severe.

Huh.

BlueBloodedToffee's become very town. Varsoon's brcome null. I think at this point that the remaining scumteam is Boonskies and a lurker (probably Goblin).

Konowa, could you stop using self-meta defenses? They don't convince anyone that you're town and they don't help scumhunting. It's filler.

Varsoon, I fell you're being too careful this game. Take some risks, try to get some reactions, stuff like that.

Drake, what are your reads?

Alright, I'm 100% on ScumSkies now. I don't think that a player would replace out of a game due to a bus that she herself started, I disagree with Boonkies' townread of me's reason (effort is not indicative of alignment. You're totally on about how involved I am in this game), the fact that he's sheeping Varsoon way too easily, the fact he voted Orc less then a page after calling him town, the opinion that Thor/Orc scumteam is more likely then Thor/BBT (Allyra REPLACED OUT, you normally don't do that when bussing a scumbuddy because you know the outrage that your buddy is showing is fake), and everything everyone else has said.

I can't even.

Vote: Drake Crusader

killer, it wasn't that I was being dodgy it was that the question didn't interest me at the time. I was more interested in trying to figure out Allyra.

Why did you just vote Drake? Explain your vote.

Killerjester: I'd prefer to keep my vote on my most scummy player, though I'm ok with a Varsoon lynch as of right now.

Why another unexplained vote, Drake?

Do you have in-depth reads for everyone, or at least more in-depth than 1 line?

At this point I'd hammer you if there were less days on the clock, and I'm sure some of the other players not on your wagon would too. If you are town, though, it would be better for you to say all your reads and suspicions on players so we have something to go on.

Orc, you're probably the one who will get NK'd, so I would say your reads too.

I thought I could do what I did my first Newbie game and just call the entire scumteam and push the lynch single-handedly on one of them. Now we're in a losing position and everyone who's voting me are serious townreads. (Gosh darn it Boonskiies I distrusted you)

Boonskiies, Formerfish: What is every scumpoint you have on me?

Btw, Zeb, I read your post. If you really want me to do a huge list of the reasons I think you're scum, I'll do it later...probably.

DO IT NOW!

Come on Boonskiies. You're not explaining why you're voting someone outside of one point where you're using meta, which is a terrible reason to lynch someone. If you can't explain anything, I can't defend myself and you can't get any information about my slot. This is bad bad bad bad bad. Post your case. I don't want to argue in a argument that I'm not sure what it's about. (That made more sense in my head)

You too, Formerfish and Varsoon.

Because I dont like your face

Ditto.

Do you have an ACTUAL case on me?

This is me asking questions, pointing out possible scumslips, and pressuring players to figure out whether they are town or scum. Every post has at least a little, and about half are full-on scumhunting.

I know it looks terrible that the 2 people who are voting me are the 2 scumreads, but I'm not going to lie about my scumreads. Those 2 are scum for the reasons I've already mentioned.

NOTE: Tomorrow I won't be able to answer questions, and that will continue for a week. That's why I wanted Formerfish and Boonskiies to post their case now. If they actually do post a case don't vote me until I get a chance to answer it, please.

[Zebulin]

Could people other than Formerfish and I actually post? I'm getting tired of this back-and forth, and I think Formerfish is too.

[Zebulin]

YOU'RE SCUM AND I'M TRYING TO PROVE YOU'RE SCUM.

[Zebulin]

Going on vacation now. UNVOTE: Boonskiies Still suspect you, but V/LA unvote is best.

[Zebulin]

Back from vacation, rereading.

[Zebulin]

A Ton Of Unrelated Thoughts About The Game

VOTE: BoonskiiesStill scummiest player.

Alright, so I realized I accidentally took a lot of the stupid stuff Boonskiies was saying and thought Formerfish had said it as well (like the rhetorical questions and sheeping). Sorry about that. You still might scum due to bad cases, but I was way more adamant about it than I meant to. (Boon is very very scum still)

Orc is reminding me so much of grapes from this game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58712 with the rhetorical questions on Xiao, whose case I don't quite get (someone couldve easily killed BBT to try to incriminate Xiao, who's self-vote allowed for a policy lynch even though it doesn't matter (some players policy lynch self-votes)), and Xiao is ALSO using rhetorical questions. I'm pretty sure one of the two is scum.

V/LA12/29 through 1/2

More vacation Less Mafia

As of now, my reads are:

Very Town:
Town:

acryon, killerjester

Leaning Town:

Varsoon

Null:

Orcinus_theoriginal, Xiao Long

If one flips town/scum the other goes to scum/town
Leaning Scum:

Formerfish

Scum:
Very Scum:

Boonskiies

PEdit: Formerfish: I had read up to page 58 on vacation but didn't have time to post anything.

[Zebulin]

Null: Orcinus_theoriginal, Xiao Long If one flips town/scum the other goes to scum/town

this seems really lazy

Agreed. Saying that kind of associative read is fine, but it should at least be noted which one is more likely to be scum I think. Without that, it doesn't mean much.

They're close, but as of right now I'd say Xiao Long is more likely to be scum because Orc's predeccessor replaced out due to frustration with dealing with Thor, which makes no sense from a bussing mindset (and I believe that replacing out strategically is banned), so she would have to be REALLY frustrated as scum to replace out.

Boonskiies: I've already said why I've thought you were scum, and since we both we're (are for me) on vacation I couldn't find anything more town or scum about you.

[Zebulin]

Back, reading.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Boonskiies Still think he's the scummiest, for all the reasons prior.

Alright, so I'm thinkig the last scum is Boonskiies or killerjester. I don't think Acryon or Varsoon are the last scum, as they are both gut townreads, and Formerfish seems to be the most active and contributing, so I don't think he's scum either. KJ has been inactive, but I don't think that's enough by itself to be lynched. Boonskiies has been scummy all game.

Formerfish: I'm pretty sure anyone would've killed Orc in the night, he was basically conf town after both Thor and Xiao hating him and then dying.

[Zebulin]

Yeah, but then you did reveal why you found me scummy, so now I'm not scumreading you.

[Zebulin]

Post 1355. You pointed out I was tunneling way too much, and I'm trying to stop doing that for the rest of the game and focused on some other players (like Orc and Killerjester).

[Zebulin]

Boonskiies, I'm voting for the scummiest player. You're the sfcummiest player. I don't see how it's scum to vote someone with no votes, and your vote on me seems like the OMGUS bs that you accuse me of. I also said that you're my scumread much more than Killer and I'd much prefer a wagon on you.

Reads:

Very Town:
Town:

Acryon

Leaning Town:

Varsoon

Null:

Formerfish, Killerjester

Leaning Scum:
Scum:

Boonskiies

Very Scum:

[Zebulin]

I just don't understand Boonskies play this game. He has now, on two different occasions, given terrible reasons for why Zeb is scum. I actually don't know if I can imagine scum giving reasons that bad for voting someone. At this point, even though I don't feel their play seems as scummy as Boonskies, I think there is actually a much greater chance one of Killer/Varsoon flips scum.

@Zeb: Why is Varsoon leaning town for you? (this isn't an interrogation; genuinely curious for your reasons)

Gut.

I feel like Varsoon is being incredibly foolhardy with what he's posting, but hasn't done anything really scummy (other than that bad case on Orc at the start of Day 2). As scum that's very difficult to pull off. Orc (conf town) also said he was town on multiple occasions, and Orc correctly called both Thor and Xiao, so there's a good chance he got some of his other reads right. It's not a very strong read, hence "leaning town".

P-Edit: That about sums up the Boonskiies case. Boonskiies, do you have a defense?

[Zebulin]

I trust Formerfish this game, and am totally seeing things from his perspective. Zeb/Killer should be today's lynch

Um, Boonskiies, Formerfish just said that Killer, me, you, and Varsoon are all good scum targets. You don't have the exact same scum targets as Formerfish does. Also, if you won't defend yourself then you will be mislynched, and if you do defend yourself you should have counterarguments (as town) and thus won't be lynched.

Formerfish: Why could I die? As in, what is your reason (if you have a new one) for being ok with me dying?

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Killer

I wish you guys would just fucking vote Zebulin.

Why did you just vote one person and then tell everyone to vote another person?

[Zebulin]

Boonskiies is either a decent scum player, a idiotic town player or a troll, and all 3 are anti-town. He's also (in my opinion) the most likely scum. I want him lynched today.

Acryon, since you're most likely going to die tonight, what are your reads on all the players and what should we do in lylo if Boon (or anyone else who gets lynched, but Boon is most likely right now) flips town?

[Zebulin]

Boon, you're self-metaing and you're only saying things that help you as scum. Do you have a non-meta defense to anything anyone's said against you?

I don't see how agreeing with a player makes me scum. I've thought you were scum long before acryon voiced his opinion on it, anyway.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Zebulin

WHY VARSOON WHY???????????????

I mean, why are you voting someone (me [line]or boonskiies[/line] (thought you voted boonskiies at some point)) when you're saying someone else is the scum?

Boonskiies: Why am I scum?

[Zebulin]

Mod: Is faking a trust tell against MafiaScum rules?

I want to see if Boon is legally allowed to do this, if he is there's a chance that's what he's doing right now.

[Zebulin]

He is not town.

GIVE REASONS.

[Zebulin]

Boon, just saying "accusations on me are laughable" does not make accusations on you laughable. Even if you're not trust telling (I'm giving it coin flip odds at this point) there are still pleenty of things scum about you:

You're troll hammer on Thor. Even though this helped town, you shouldn't troll hammer.

Spoiler: Source

Eh. =/

VOTE: Thor

Hammer.

The buddy-buddying of Thor.

Spoiler: Source

But since that's not the case...congratulations, Thor. You earned yourself a town read from me.

And the posts leading up to this.

Scumreading of Allyra/Orc, who is confirmed town.

This part of my list is broken and I have no idea haw to fix it. *shrug*

Spoiler: Source

VOTE: Allyra
OMGUS on me.

Spoiler: Source

As you can see in this post, Boonskiies called me town when I was scumreading him.

Xiao Long - null
Varsoon - town. I like how he's playing, even if I did feel a little tunneled.
Goblin - he's just hot headed townie.
Drake Crusader - null
Konowa - This could be the 3rd scum. I felt a little buddy-buddy with him and Thor; didn't scum read until Thor flipped goon.
Boonskiies - super town.
Zebulin - I think he's town. He hasn't been posting much, and I agree that I looked easily scummy, and for him to go on me was a super town move.
acryon - scum. He isn't voting me because he thinks I'm scum. I don't see a possibility where he is town. I get why town would vote me, but this isn't coming from a town perspective.
orcinus_theoriginal - town for now, but the explanation I said earlier could come back up.
BlueBloodedToffee - super town. listen to this guy.
gamsimbre - null

I didn't like how she came in, and just immediately started town reading the big wagons. That's a super easy way to feign town as scum, and I see it happen all the time.

The ridiculous and unnecessary vote of randomidget, who is confirmed town.

Spoiler: Source

VOTE: Randomidget

That freakout seems legit. Inb4 Konowa/Allyra scum team...LOLOL.

Refusal to defend himself, which is anti-town to do.

Spoiler: Source

I'm not going to defend myself. I have nothing to say that I can defend myself with. This is a policy lynch.

[/quote] At this point some people were pushing for a non-policy lynch of Boonskiies (including me), so his defense is invalid.

This flat-out ridiculous post.

Spoiler: Source

Ever think I might have a fucking role that causes me to auto hammer?

Don't put him to L-1 if you don't want someone to hammer.

???

Self-meta as main defense.

Spoiler: Source

Just ISO the guy. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6508609

Lots and lots of votes on confirmed town players.

Spoiler: Source

Didn't count the RVS one, because that's just mean.

VOTE: Allyra

I didn't like how she came in, and just immediately started town reading the big wagons. That's a super easy way to feign town as scum, and I see it happen all the time.

VOTE: Randomidget

That freakout seems legit. Inb4 Konowa/Allyra scum team...LOLOL.

Oh, you're allyra's replacement?

VOTE: Orcinus

More of an Allyra thing than you. Sorry you replaced into a scum slot. =/

After I'm lynched, you guys should follow BBT. He somehow always manages to figure things out, and people don't listen to him. LISTEN TO BBT. I don't care if you lynch me. If you need to get me out of the way, then fine. Just listen to BBT after toDay.

VOTE: Acryon

And this guy is just sheeping and sprouting obvious fluff, and is policy lynching, not scum reading me.

He might as well be confirmed town at this point

@Boon - Look at his D1 progression surrounding the Thor vs Allyra discussion. It reads insanely genuine and shows he is not afraid to re-evaluate his reads.

He was defending Thor. It would have been easy for him to continue doing so as scum.

It was day 1. Remember Anatole Kuragin in Dr Pepper when the wagons were You vs Me? He was my scum partner there too.


@Acyron - Konowa was my only leaning scum read.


@Orc - yeah, and now his whole perspective on voting me is basically a Policy Lynch.


VOTE: Konowa

After thinking about it, I could actually see a BBT/Konowa/Thor scum team. I'll go back to this.

VOTE: Konowa

Not for what Varsoon is quoting, but just because I can see Konowa being scum.

VOTE: Orc

Drake's last post hit me in a weird kind of way. I'm scum reading him now because of it. I'm unsure whether or not it was because it was him targeting me though. Either way, I don't have anything else to push on Orc besides guy, so might as well jump on another scum read.

VOTE: Drake

Also, why the hell do I think everyone can potentially be scum, god damn.

Self-vote. Anti-town.

Spoiler: Source

I always do totally random/make people question their town reads kills as scum. Anyways, I'm getting kind of irritated and done with this game, especially because I'm not important at all in this game, so Imma join the wagon.

VOTE: Boonskiies

His posts don't have much substance to them. No walls, no serious looks at players, an average of about 2 lines.

Spoiler: Source

ISO. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6508609

THIS POST.

Spoiler: Never did post the huge list of reasons

Btw, Zeb, I read your post. If you really want me to do a huge list of the reasons I think you're scum, I'll do it later...probably.

And, of course, the most important reason I have for suspecting Boonskiies:

Spoiler: The most important reason

Great play, BBT. Thank you for shooting Konowa. (assuming he did last night with his JOAT).

VOTE: Zebulin

This guy is scum.

VOTE: Boonskiies Still think he's the scummiest, for all the reasons prior.

Alright

, so I'm thinkig the last scum is Boonskiies or killerjester.

I don't think Acryon or Varsoon are the last scum, as they are both gut townreads, and Formerfish seems to be the most active and contributing, so I don't think he's scum either. KJ has been inactive, but I don't think that's enough by itself to be lynched. Boonskiies has been scummy all game.

Formerfish: I'm pretty sure anyone would've killed Orc in the night, he was basically conf town after both Thor and Xiao hating him and then dying.

He thinks it's either me or killer, and there's a wagon on killer, and he chooses to vote me. I don't see how it's not Zebulin.

VOTE: Zebulin

Varsoon/killer/Myself/Former. Lynch Zebulin with me, PLEASE. I'd much prefer it to Killer.

VOTE: Zebulin

Killer, prove you are town to me. You say you want Varsoon or Zebulin, I'll meet you in the middle.
Former, your biggest scum reads are Killer and Zebulin, there is no reason not to vote Zebulin.
Varsoon...I just trust you for some reason, man.


Also, Zebulin is totally playing up buddy buddy with Acryon.

I voted Zebulin last page.

VOTE: Zebulin

Fixed, apologies for the mistake.

I rest my case.

[Zebulin]

Everything you just said is only half of everything I'm doing. I've pretty much voted everyone in this game, so that argument is flawed. When do I ever do wall posts? Argument flawed. That self vote thing is the reason trust telling is being brought up. Arg Flawed. I've never buddied my scum buddies before, why would I start in this game? That argument flawed. And lastly, me voting you is super town because you are scum.

Just because you don't wall posts, vote everyone and self vote does not mean that those things are not scumtells, effort is not indicative of alignment, and the last point was sarcasm (all blue text is sarcasm fyi).

I'm done writing really long answers to stuff right now, that one post took over an hour.

[Zebulin]

Also, I disagree with the refusal to defend being anti-town. Scum try harder to try and defend themselves because they have to, and they feel more pressure because they are scum. A la...you.

As a great man once screamed, EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT.

(BlueBloodedToffee in Open 570, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59151)

[Zebulin]

Boon, you have a defense to all the other stuff I posted?

[Zebulin]

See, there's a differense between "not trying hard" and "not posting a defense". I know you're not trying hard, and I'm fine with that (beats lurking), but you should at least have the time to respond to my hourlong post rationally instead of accusing me of a false case. My case is real. It's on your screen. Go read it.

Varsoon, acryon, Formerfish, killerjester: What are your thought on the Boon/Me argument?

Formerfish: I am, since this is a closed setup and it tells scum the power roles. If this was a open setup I'd be in favor of it.

[Zebulin]

Maybe we should have acryon make the call. If he's a power role we might as well do it because he'll die anyway, and if he's vanilla we can call it off so a power role doesn't die. If acryon is a power role I don't think it will influence scum's choice anyway.

PEdit: You just posted exactly what I was going to say. Also, I don't want to be lynched. Why do you want me lynched?

[Zebulin]

If we were to massclaim though, how would we do it? I haven't been in a massclaiming situation before.

[Zebulin]

Sure. Dice tag for which one of us claims first?

You and I are being seen as scummier right now as both acryon and I strongly suspect you and both you and Formerfish strongly suspect me. Varsoon and Killer strongly suspect each other.

[Zebulin]

Boon, is that y a yes or a why?

[Zebulin]

Thinking about it, a massclaim is probably a good thing even if acryon's vanilla because that means he survives to lylo, and I'm comfortable having acryon decide the fate of the game. (If acryon's the scum though...)

[Zebulin]

I, Zebulin, claim Vanilla Townie. Boonskiies shall claim next.

[Zebulin]

C'mon Boon, you got to use the size 300 Algerian font!

[Zebulin]

Yes. (Didn't see your post) Town, rolename Vanilla Town.

[Zebulin]

Formerfish: I went back to the User Control panel. I didn't know that it was on Page 1.

[Zebulin]

No... why?

[Zebulin]

I'm an unusual person.

MOVING ON

[Zebulin]

If Killer claims vanilla he's added to the lynch pool. If he claims a PR and formerfish/acryon counterclaim then he's policy lynched, and if it turns out he was town then the counterclaimer is lynched in mylo or lylo (if we wait a day to talk).

Is this correct?

[Zebulin]

No.

There's a chance, though, and I want to make sure that everyone knows what's going on.

Wouldn't that make a Varsoon/Boonskiies/Zebulin/killerjester lynch pool?

[Zebulin]

No. No, Boon. You're my wagon, you're the most likely scum.

If I die, lynch Boon in lylo. (Lylo, not mylo. You can wait a day to talk, probably.)

[Zebulin]

Is that a lynch?

[Zebulin]

Alas, I am not.

Did you guys read my wall a couple pages ago?

[Zebulin]

Killer, before you kill me, let the massclaim end and let acryon say his thoughts on the game because he's probably going to die tonight. Thanks.

[Zebulin]

Good point acryon.

UNVOTE: Boonskiies
VOTE: No Lynch

Now scum is in a wifom spin about whether you're actually bulletproof or not, which takes away its power of knowing everything. Well played acryon.

(though you could've claimed doc and had scum kill you off anyways)

[Zebulin]

Meant in my last point that you could have scum shoot you and give town an extra lynch.

[Zebulin]

Killerjester, acryon just claimed bulletproof so he won't die overnight.

[Zebulin]

UNVOTE: No Lynch
VOTE: Boonskiies

[Zebulin]

Acryon, if you're the scum, claiming BP would be the perfect explanation for why you won't die in the night.

[Zebulin]

Problem is town-acryon and scum-acryon both would saay BP, town acryon to tell the truth and scum acryon for the explanation as to why he won't die. Going into whether acryon's BP claim is scum-motivated or not launches everyone into WIFOM for the rest of the in-game day.

[Zebulin]

The decision's easy for me because I'm betting the game on ScumSkiies (see the super-wall post, which everyone seems to be ignoring). Boon's betting the game on ScumZeb, so the decision's easy for him too.

Varsoon: Acryon wins as town or scum if he can get Varsoon, killerjester and Formerfish to trust him. His actions at this point will be the same if town or scum, so you need to decide here if he's town. I think he is.

[Zebulin]

I'll post an apology Varsoon. I still think Boon is scum though.

[Zebulin]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... a#p6509256 Keep this in mind.

[Zebulin]

If someone trust-told(?) I'll replace out, no reason to play a broken game.

[Zebulin]

You were fun to play with. Sorry about the hard push

I am sorry Varsoon, you were right, I was wrong.

[Zebulin]

So its Killer, Zeb, Acryon and me left. Killer, why is Zeb scum? Zeb, why is Killer scum?

Why aren't you scum?

[Zebulin]

nvm, I know why you're not scum.

[Zebulin]

Formerfish, you and acryon are both confirmed town. I know this becausse I ust got the message from acryon telling me he's confirmed town. The fact that you didn't kill acryon last night (basically confirmed town) even though you knew he wasn't BP means you are also confirmed town. killerjester's the scum by POE.

...huh. VOTE: killerjester I was not expecting killerjester to be the scum. Thought it was you or Varsoon.

As for the killer/me thing, whoever talks first is at a disadvantage, so it would be better for a third party (you or acryon) to use a die tag.

[Zebulin]

Same KJ.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to die here, I've been seen as majorly scummy by numerous players (Boonskiies, Formerfish) and have tunneled this game, with bad results. KJ case tomorrow, if I have time (which I probably will).

Nice gambit btw acryon

[Zebulin]

Formerfish, acryon, the game is in your hands. Acryon is confirmed town and Formerfish might as well be (99% town).

Looking back on killerjester, he played an amazing game. I can point at the Varsoon tunneling and putting his vote on Xiao D3 while talking very little about Xiao, with all his posts after voting Xiao having to do with Varsoon, me, or Orc. He was going for early towncred on Xiao if Xiao went down without really wanting Xiao to go down, hence the lack of discussion about Xiao. (You played well KJ, I can't find much.)

I will answer any and all questions of Formerfish's and Acryon's. Ask me anything.

[Zebulin]

Formerfish: I do not have a scum game on MafiaScum. All my games have been Vanilla Town.

Games from most to least recent:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59136
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59151 (replaced out)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58712

[Zebulin]

I don't think anything killerjester or I say or do incriminating each other at this point will matter, so I'm just going to answer any questions the confirmed towns have and say "Prod Dodge" every day so I don't get banned. Good luck Formerfish, Acryon, and please make the right call.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Zebulin On the off chance that Formerfish is scum and made a stupid decision by not killing acryon last night, I would like the game to be over now and not in 26 days. We're all assuming Formerfish is town right now and I don't see that changing, so the game will either be over quickly or Formerfish becomes certainly confirmed town. (My vote's still meant to be on killerjester)

[Zebulin]

If Formerfish is the scum we lost anyway, and I don't want to wait a month agonizing over what decision you two will make.

[Zebulin]

What I'm saying is that taking the 1% risk that Formerfish is scum and will win right now and having 2 confirmed town players is better than having 1 confirmed town player and one not-quite-confirmed town player.

PEdit: The night-kill analysis is going to go into a WIFOM death spiral, isn't it?

[Zebulin]

UNVOTE: Formerfish

I'm screwed, aren't I?

[Zebulin]

VOTE: killerjester Forgot to do this.

[Zebulin]

...Xiao set me up?

Yeah, I'm dead today no matter what I say here, and scum's going to win. I can't argue against you voting me here though, because I'd do the exact same thing in your position. Wrong call for the right reasons acryon.

[Zebulin]

It's not playing against wincon. acryon having the surefire knowledge of you being town I thought was worth the very small risk of you being scum.

[Zebulin]

You got the knowledge when Formerfish didn't vote me and end the game.

[Zebulin]

Everyone was assuming that Formerfish was town, and I wanted to be certain who the scum was (killerjester) so we didn't have to question Formerfish's alignment.

[Zebulin]

My alignment was never in question. Even at the beginning of the day you and killer just took my questioning of you in stride.

EXACTLY.

When someone's being strongly townread by everyone (I was giving it a 99% chance you were town), you could make sure of it by doing the vote thing I just did. Now you're CONFIRMED town instead of probably town, and town is better off for it.

[Zebulin]

That would be very mean.

[Zebulin]

GG.

I was town.

[Zebulin]

...yeah.

[Zebulin]

I knew I was dead, and I just kinda wanted to get it over with.

[Zebulin]

I knew I was dead, and I just kinda wanted to get it over with.

[Zebulin]

:/ indeed.

Death today was half me being an idiot, half amazing scum setup. killerjester totally got away with the varsoon kill on WIFOM, and I got killed on WIFOM. I also tunneled Boon and just was bad at figuring out scum.

[Zebulin]

Scumteam: Did you set up the Xiao not lynching acryon conviction on me or was that completely accidental?

[Zebulin]

I keep going in games with amazing scumteams.v

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59136 Exact same last-day situation happened too

[Zebulin]

I thought we would win with the d1 mafia lynch. We were in a good spot d4, too. *sigh*

[Zebulin]

I think Boon is the only person here saying "It's not about winning, it's HAVING FUN!" and that hurts your odds in mafia, because you say ridiculous things for fun.

[Zebulin]

im siteflaking

fuck this game

I feel your pain.
Let's both roll scum together in a game sometime so we can win and feel better.

Yeah, I hate being town.

I've never gotten scum.

NEVER.

The game's called "mafiascum" and I've never gotten scum.

[Zebulin]

Calm down. Let's not have a flame war.