Mini 1627: Ninja Mini Mafia
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 55, Xiao Long wrote:In post 46, Thor665 wrote:So is it possible to get you to put him on L-1?
I'd like to see if we can get hammer intent and force a claim.
Um, probably not. I don't see the point in forcing him to claim this early when we know nothing about anybody. If he's a PR, that would be extremely detrimental to town. If he's not a PR, it's still detrimental to town even if he's VT because it only helps scum to know that at this point.
If people really want to put Varsoon at L-1, I'd hope for a hell of a lot more of a case than just "I want to see if we can get a claim" or "you only voted me after someone else did".
Early day 1 voting is all about eliciting reactions, which Varsoon was giving and I wanted to see more. I amnotinterested in some hyper-wagon on Varsoon, which is terrible.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 62, Goblin wrote:I think it is healthy for town to get some claims each day
This is a joke right?
In post 68, Randomnamechange wrote:Thor is trying to stop wagons without claiming towncred.
Thor was doing the exact opposite of trying to stop a wagon.
In post 59, Drake Crusader wrote:In post 38, Randomnamechange wrote:My vote is now serious. Varsoon only voted me aftwr someone else did.
Trying to turn the heat up on D1. This guy is really scum like.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Whoops, I should have previewed. So what is your current read on Thor randomidget?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 73, Randomnamechange wrote:Thor, is null-town. I don't see scum displaying that level of idiocy.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 76, Drake Crusader wrote:No im not really seeing how claiming a serious vote d1 is a town move. Just too early I feel to be throwing anything serious around.
I disagree completely. It's never too early to throw something serious around. The quicker we leave RVS and D1 fluff, the better. If someone dropping an accusation like that gets us there, then great. Not only does it get us out of RVS, but it draws reactions that RVS votes probably wouldn't.
Your post seems to imply that it is bad for us to leave RVS and that people should only be screwing around and random-voting up until a certain point, which is actually not a town mindset.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Reason? Also, can you answer the question I asked you before.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 81, Varsoon wrote:I think Drake meant serious votes onpage1.
/shrugs.
I'm suspicious of how fast my wagon was to grow and I'd say there was scum there, but I'm super biased about this.
Does anyone else think so?
It wasn't on page 1 though..
I wouldn't rush to any conclusions about your wagon. It's too early to determine intent based on that wagon without other activity to view it in the context of.
Looking into Goblin's post history, it looks like it's not a player we should expect elaborate content from, which is unfortunate, so I don't think that should be held against the slot. I do, however, think it is still required that you at least give some reasoning for your vote and answer questions that are asked of you.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Sorry for the wall, but missing ~9 pages can do that.
In post 110, Allyra wrote:In post 85, acryon wrote:Looking into Goblin's post history, it looks like it's not a player we should expect elaborate content from, which is unfortunate, so I don't think that should be held against the slot. I do, however, think it is still required that you at least give some reasoning for your vote and answer questions that are asked of you.
Did you meta him? What games led you do believe that we should not expect contect from him here? Did you also take note that he's St. Constantine the Hermit?
Not to be rude, but isn't "looking into Goblin's post history" the definition of meta? Just look at his general post history and you'll see a good handful of naked votes, and a decent amount of one line posts.
127 is really weak by boonskies, and mispresenting people to make them look scummy is always bad.
In post 133, Allyra wrote:But more importantly, do you disagree with the reads I've posted. That would actually be more helpful.
I disagree here, because I actually think reasoning/intent are far more important than the reads themselves. Town shouldn't be trying to get people to agree with their town-reads; they should be scum-hunting. This pingsa bit.
In post 135, Allyra wrote:Okay so then in your last post you don't like that I have two town reads by page six, but you don't disagree with my town reads? And it's somehow opportunistic for me to have two town reads? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
One can agree with another's reads, but disagree with the the way they were presented or the intentions behind presenting them in a certain way. For the record, I don't think having two town-reads by page six is scummy, but I also don't think it can't be scummy.
In post 140, Thor665 wrote:In post 54, Varsoon wrote:I'm not going to claim regardless, so if you all want a mislynch on me, I suggest doing it while I'm teaching and not around today.
Yeah, doing a fakeclaim super early on Day 1 is tough because it locks you in if you manage to survive.
So, basically you're just claiming scum. Got it.
You must be kidding.
Why don't we just push everyone to L-1 so we can ALL claim, right??
In post 140, Thor665 wrote:In post 117, Varsoon wrote:Pretty sure the following got asked/answered already, Allyra (especially 'cus I was the one asking the same questions, lol)
In post 118, Allyra wrote:oh.
I find this interchange funny.
Because it basically is Varsoon realizing that Allyra hasn't read anything very well - yet not bothering to ask her about it.
Is it just that he's happy to have her townread?
Or is he town who can't figure out how to pressure someone for skimming the game to try to figure out if they're scum or not?
This I agree with. Something also felt off to me about this exchange as it was happening.
In post 143, Allyra wrote:2). I wasn't skimming the game. I'll admit to maybe missing something as I was drinking wine, but even then I didn't ask those questions because I missed that they had been asked due to "brutal" skimming. I was responding to things as I was reading them. Are you saying my reads shouldn't be listened to because you think I didn't read the first few pages of the game before I replaced in well enough?
I think that's perfectly fair if he thinks you didn't read it fully. Why would you put much stock in the reads of someone with, by their choice, imperfect information?
In post 143, Allyra wrote:I don't like konowas entrance post.
What don't you like about it? The flippancy?
Edit: Ok, just saw your answer, and it isn't good. This is something that newb-town would maybe pick up as a scum-tell, and I'm not sure of your experience, so I don't know how that plays into this.
In post 154, Allyra wrote:Just so you know Thor IS scum and I'd wager that boonskies is his partner.
You're welcome.
Oh I'll throw in konowa for a potential third.
Putting Konowa on your scum-list for his one comment seems very weak.
In post 166, Boonskiies wrote:Eh, if I was scum with Thor and you voted him, I would have voted him as well. I'm a troll like that.
In post 167, Boonskiies wrote:But since that's not the case...congratulations, Thor. You earned yourself a town read from me.
And Thor with my response to these posts:
In post 168, Thor665 wrote:Whut?
I don't have many comments on the next couple pages of Konowa/Allyra/Thor battle, but I agree with this regarding Allyra alignment and the replace-out:
In post 265, Thor665 wrote:Because an actual replace out suggests the flail wasn't flail but was emotional thrashing - emotional thrashing is alignment neutral and it removes a lot of the scumminess I was getting from her when she power freaked when I began questioning her motives. I had taken it as nervous scum - the actual truth was very tightly wound player. I am not of the opinion that it makes her as solid of a scumspect as I originally thought, therefor I returned to a solid suspect I hadn't explored properly yet.
In post 281, Goblin wrote:48 hours until a prod is way to short a window. Prefer 72. Let me catch up.
Not game-related really, but 48 has been the window for almost every game I've played.
@Zebulin: Do you not think it is possible that Allyra-slot/Thor is TvT? I think that is very possible, and the only thing keeping me from thinking that is the case is the "slip" from Orci. I've only been scum a couple times, but how often is QuickThreads used for scum topics? And can the mod tell us if there is daytalk? Or is that all hidden since it's a Normal game?
I also think Boonskies is possibly scum, although I thought this in another game I played with him and his nonsense posts were actually just town, so there's a lot of trepidation there.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 368, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 362, acryon wrote:I think that is very possible, and the only thing keeping me from thinking that is the case is the "slip" from Orci. I've only been scum a couple times, but how often is QuickThreads used for scum topics? And can the mod tell us if there is daytalk? Or is that all hidden since it's a Normal game?
i always assume daytalk i guess because that's just the mafia environment i experience. the group of players i play with (cabd, fery, etc whatever) all are pretty large proponents of scum daytalk. i mean the assumption might seem strange but i literally cannot remember the last non-bork game that didn't have daytalk
You also said the "scum qt". I have only been scum twice, but neither time used a qt. Can you show me scum games of your's that used a qt instead of a MS thread that would make you use "qt" there?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 370, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:yeah i can. this is my first game back from a 6 month hiatus and before i left i never actually used a PT. it's not quickthreads, not quicktopic. so since private topics were implemented after i took my leave in may, before that we always used QTs.
my last 4 games
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=44160
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=38561
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=37642
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=37642
all use QTs (since private topics hadn't been implemented yet), all have daytalk (i actually forgot whether teenwolf did or not. i think it did but i can't actually find the QT)
Given this, calling that post from Orcinus a slip seems silly.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 373, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 371, acryon wrote:Now fairly certain Thor VS Orcinus is TvT.
i am fairly certain this is not true
what can i do to sell you a vote on thor
i can dance a jig??
I don't accept jigs sadly, but if you could give me what you think are the strongest two points for why Thor is scum. Other than the fact that you don't like his case on you.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 378, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 312, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:i mean the issue i have with you right now are a few
1. unproductive and disingenuous lines of questioning that seems solely geared to get me to unvote when i first replaced in
2. reluctance to engage in conversation
3. i guess the fact that your two scumreads right now are two of the people scumreading you is an added bonus
4. there's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in your posts. i mean you chide me for talking semantics when it really wasn't semantics, it was you either misphrasing your question or you just trying to deliberately misrep me as "dodging" things. and then the tipping point for my slot being scum again is this idea that i somehow treated my replacement's case strangely, when i've made it perfectly clear how i deal with predecessors cases replacing in and your evidence for the countercase is that i called all's case "good", which again is semantics. there's also this willingness to brand what i do as scummy especially when i think objectively you should not be scumreading me right now. the attack on me dodging question is highly highly questionable. i made it clear the first time that you alleged i dodged a question that i didn't think that's the question you were asking me and i highlighted very specifically why that wasn't the question you were asking me. the second time you accused me of dodging a question (just now), i had made it clear i found your attitude rude and that i didn't do that. so all this seems very disingenuous to me and i will give you the lynch yes i will lynch you
take your pick
i don't OMGUS very often if at all. but since that seems to be a concern of yours, 1. is not OMGUS because i refer to thor's questioning before he started scumreading me, 4. refers pretty heavily to his case on me so you're free to discount that although i think it's pretty strong
i would also add that i actually scumread thor before he scumread me so again my thorscum read is not reflexive
Just to clarify, I wasn't accusing you of OMGUS. Disliking a case is a perfectly reasonable thing, but I'd prefer to hear your more subjective reasons since you're obviously too close to that case.
Regarding your points:
1. Is it possible he is just a very controlling player (he is), and tries to push people onto his way of thinking as any alignment (he does)?
2. Part of this is most likely attributed to 1., but what points specifically, do you think he is avoiding that show scum-motivation?
3. This happens as town.
4. This is by far the most valuable point. Do you think Thor's aggression toward you/evident desire to paint you as scum are the result of a strong personal belief that you are scum. If Thor is the player described in 1., wouldn't it make sense for him to make some questionable decisions and comments for the sake of pushing a wagon he believes to be holding scum?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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And just so it's clear where my head is at, I have played with Thor once, I called him scum and tunneled on him hard. Town lynched me for my case on him, and he turned out to be scum. While the general Thor-iness is here, the things that caused me to (correctly) scum-read him there don't appear to be evident this game.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 382, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:1 when i first replaced in i feel like thor's questioning of me was rather disingenuous. i go over this in detail in 293 but basically i don't think he was trying to learn anything from his questioning, and i think his questions were geared in a way that would allow him to pivot into scumreading me / getting me to move my vote.
-for instance he pressured me a lot on my initial stance on him. why would you pressure a guy who literally just replaced in that way? he doesn't have a solid grasp on what's going on in the game, obviously doesn't have strong scumreads, and is trying to figure stuff out so i mean sure by questioning him on his initial vote you're going to either a) prove that his vote has weak reasoning (no shit he just replaced in) and scumread off that b) get him to unvote and i don't think either of these results speak to a town mindset. For instance if I were town and in thor's position i would ask the replacement for stances on certain cases, which to thor's credit he did, but i just think the line of questioning is really really off.
I mostly agree. Although Idothink that there is reason to pressure a guy who literally just replaced in who appears to just be sheeping, because that comes across as lazy.
In post 382, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:2 seems like a strange thing to say but i have an issue with how thor basically ignores my accusations of him. i don't like how he doesn't reply to the bit where i accuse him of misrepresenting his own question 288 and i don't like the sort of condescending brush-off attitude he's taken the entire game against ppl who are scumreading him. so yeah he'll reply in the interest of upholding a facade of replying to accusations but he'll drop a lot of meaningless buzzwords and spin false narratives and it won't seem like he's actually interested in figuring stuff out, just in accusing his own accusers of being scummy in some way
I also agree here.
P.edit: I super agree with 383.
I'm not stubborn enough to not change my mind based on a solid case.
VOTE: Thor
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Interested to hear from Xiao about about why he thinks Konowa is scum.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 387, Xiao Long wrote:I would like to know specifically why he super agrees with 383.
I think all of the below sounds completely correct:
In post 383, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
1. i mean ok but the problem i have is that he isn't exhibiting a "way of thinking". he's not trying to figure stuff out. he's used his posts as a pivot to transition into "scumread orc" or "get orc to unvote" and i just don't see why someone who talks a lot about engagement would do that
2. not trying to figure stuff out is scum
4. i don't think so because it doesn't fit in with the "allyra's replacement rang to me as town" narrative he's tried to tell. so just to be clear the story right now is a) thor unvoted allyra because he thought replacement was townish b) thor (from my POV) questioned me in order to get me to unvote him or create a point by which he could scumread me c) i express my explicit desire to lynch thor in 300 and he scumreads and votes me in the next post, an hour later. so alongside the fact that the aggression began before c) (ergo, thor was doing this BEFORE he developed a "strong personal belief that i am scum"), i just don't think this trajectory makes sense.
I'd like to highlight specifically point 1, because after Orcinus mentioned it, it really struck a chord. Town ask questions to either clear people as town or to get scum to slip. Some of the lines from Thor don't fit that description. Point 4 is also pretty damning, IMO.
Ugh are you kidding me Boonskies? wtf, let the man claim.
@Konowa, could you speak to the BBT association a bit more and why you may be confident enough in it to point it out pre-flip?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 396, Xiao Long wrote:It might depending on how fast mod locks this thread, after that it's pointless.
My biggest thing on Konowa is how he came into the game saying he would tell us who scum was, but then did zero scum hunting whatsoever. The only thing he did was defend himself from prodding from Allyra, and then vote because of her questioning him. Then once she left and the heat was off, he unvoted and hasn't been around since. Sorry this is devoid of quotes, I want to get my thoughts out before nightfall.
Do you think that the intro post by Konowa is more likely to have been made by scum trying to show some false bravado, or by town being a little cheeky?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 400, Konowa wrote:The whole BBT pointing out a newbie game they played together and Thor calling the narrative false and BBT pulling up the link and asking how what he said was false.
Awesome, thanks.
In post 401, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:what an interesting hammer
and what an absurd 180 in boonskies reads
Unfortunately, this is the kind of crap that got him lynched in the last game we played together, and he was town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 404, Xiao Long wrote:Acryon
It's hard to say, I could easily see it as both. Regardless, I think the lack of scum hunting is enough to call his intro post into question whether it's false bravado or not.
I don't want to defend him too hard, but he was pretty much forced onto the defensive by Allyra right out of the gate, so I don't know that he had time for his own agendas straight away.
I agree with orc that varsoon needs to be looked at. A lot of his posts seem awkwardly detached (best word I can think of atm) from the actual game. 356 saying at least one of Orc/Thor/Xiao is scum seems like an easy way to make it look like he's scum-hunting without making a strong statement.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 408, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 407, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 402, acryon wrote:Unfortunately, this is the kind of crap that got him lynched in the last game we played together, and he was town.
rofl. link please. i'll look at it tomorrow if i'm still alive
hang on.
if you have this experience with boon in the past, why didn't you warn us that he pulls this kind of crap?
To be fair, he was lynched/called out multiple times for being a VI and doing similar things there, so I guess I had hoped he had learned
Here is the game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58587. And it wasn't necessarily hammering, but just general similar VI plays.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 410, Xiao Long wrote:Acryon
I don't mind him being defensive, I mind him only being defensive and not questioning other posters. He posted shortly after Thor "meh"d Allyras wall iirc and he didn't call it out which I find annoying (though not entirely indicative of being scum).
Fair. FWIW, I am also quite interested in hearing Konowa's fleshed out reads.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 421, Boonskiies wrote:So as soon as I decide to hammer Thor, everyone thinks he's town? Funny. As scum, do you think I'd actually hammer and draw attention to myself, especially if he actually flipped town? It's not out of character for me to troll hammer. Check my past games. I troll hammer all the time. Usually as town. I don't think I've ever hammered as scum, come to think of it.
Who exactly decided he was town? And why are you troll-hammering? Play the damn game. You can have fun, but one person being a troll is fun forno oneelse. All it does is make the game harder and more annoying for town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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So if your job on this site is to make games easier for scum regardless of your faction, then I guess you have accomplished it, but if it's to, you know, actuallyplay the gameand try to achieve your faction's win condition, then stop being a clown and actually play.
Maybe this is harsh, but it just isn't fun for anyone else to play with a troll; I promise you that.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 425, Boonskiies wrote:I was actually null on Thor, tbh. I semi act like I was super on his side, but that's basically just to see how he'd react. My day 1's are horrible, but once I get around day 3 I really start to shine. If Thor flips scum, my reads are entirely different. You guys may see it as a troll hammer, and I'm okay with people thinking that. If I actually had a town read on him, I wouldn't have hammered. Simple as that.
Youare the one that essentially called it a troll hammer.
In post 421, Boonskiies wrote:It's not out of character for me to troll hammer. Check my past games. I troll hammer all the time. Usually as town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 428, Boonskiies wrote:Stop being ignorant. Just because you didn't like that I hammered, doesn't mean I'm trolling. I know what the fuck I'm doing. I can't read Thor, and you guys put him at L-1, meaning you completely expect him to be scum and want him lynched. I did it for you. Deal with the fucking consequences.
Seemingly troll hammer.
Yes, we wanted him lynched, but there was always the chance he is a PR, which he now would have no time to claim. By hammering, you give a potential PR no chance to claim and save themselves. Why do I have to explain that to you?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 431, Boonskiies wrote:Ever think I might have a fucking role that causes me to auto hammer?
Don't put him to L-1 if you don't want someone to hammer.
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In post 432, Xiao Long wrote:I'm not even calling you scum for hammering him, either (though the way you did it was suspect).
That's the problem. There is actually a good chance boon is town, but he is making our job harder by doing things that are anti-town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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@Boon: Hammering a player without giving them the chance to claimisanti-town. Regardless of your alignment, that action was anti-town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 438, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In post 435, acryon wrote:In post 432, Xiao Long wrote:I'm not even calling you scum for hammering him, either (though the way you did it was suspect).
That's the problem. There is actually a good chance boon is town, but he is making our job harder by doing things that are anti-town.
please
for the love of all that Tales of The Abyss has taught us
just lynch him
That's what we did in the other game I played with him. Nobody wanted to really lynch him because we were all pretty sure he was town, but he was just doing and saying things that didn't make any sense, and we ultimately lynched him. I don't want to commit to lynching him and make it even harder for us to win just because he chooses to play a game differently than the rest of town. We shouldn't punish ourselves for his actions. That being said, I have no problem with discussing it tomorrow, but it should be a discussion we really think about, because my gut tells me there is unfortunately a very good chance he is town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 441, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:you want to talk making it harder for us to win?
if boon is scum, lynching him is the correct action
if boon is town and we don't lynch him, he will live to lylo
do you want boon to decide town's fate at lylo?
no i really didn't think so
I agree he shouldn't live to LyLo. I do not agree that we should simply policy-lynch him before the day before then.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 443, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:i mean if you agree he shouldn't live to lylo that means we have to lynch him at one point or another
so why lynch late instead of early?
This:
In post 444, Xiao Long wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about policy lynching him. He hasn't really seemed scummy to me except for being a little sheepy. The hammer without letting Thor claim was anti-town, yeah, but if Boon is town, I don't want to lose a towny just cause he's derp city sometimes. I understand what you're saying about not letting him get to lylo, but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt before we instalynch him.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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The idea that Allyra/orc bussed Thor is ridiculous. Orc is almost definitely town. Boonskies on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I do feel comfortable with my vote there.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 507, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't like Xiao's 404 either because I don't know why he is presenting a case on someone who has already been lynched? Is this like some weird way of grasping town-cred given you know Thor is flipping scum?
To be fair, he said this when Thor was at L-2:
In post 375, Xiao Long wrote:Sorry I didn't drop a post yesterday as intended. Ended up sleeping through the entire day due to sickness.
Am almost caught up and Thor hasn't really done anything to change my original read on him. If anything, he seems a lot scummier now.
VOTE: Thor665
Once I've fully caught up (about four pages behind this one), I'll add to my original reason of being really put off by his desire for a quick claim. I'll also explain why I think Konowa is probably scum, too.
This when Thor was at L-1:
In post 387, Xiao Long wrote:Ok, I'm fully caught up now and gathering quotes for my post on Thor/Konowa.
And then the hammer came 5 minutes later. He said he was going to provide them, then Boonskies said he should still share, so he did.
It's not like he was like "oh hey, he's already dead, let me throw out a case no one asked for to gain some town-cred." He had said he was gathering stuff before the lynch was certain, and then was prodded for the information after the hammer, so he provided it.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 510, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 508, acryon wrote:
It's not like he was like "oh hey, he's already dead, let me throw out a case no one asked for to gain some town-cred." He had said he was gathering stuff before the lynch was certain, and then was prodded for the information after the hammer, so he provided it.
My bad, didn't see Boon asking for the info.
What are your thoughts on the Thor wagon?
I was rather opposed to it until Orc broke some things open to me, but that was mostly because I didn't like Allyra's arguments; I liked Orc's. Part of me would be surprised if there were no scum on it, but at the same time, this makes me think there possibly wasn't:
At 350, Thor and Orc were both at L-4. Since there was a seemingly viable wagon on Orc, I don't think scum would feel the need to jump over. This means Zebulin is almost definitely town, because it makes no sense as scum to change the wagons from L-3 on your scum-partner and L-3 on town to L-4 on your scum-partner and L-2 on town, unless all 3 of Zeb/Orc/Thor were scum, which is highly unlikely.
The last 4 votes came within a 38 post range, and the last 3 came within 90 minutes:
351 - L-3
375 - L-2
384 - L-1
389 - Hammer
There is a strong possibility that the quickness of the wagon from parity with Orc's wagon to lynch was actually just too fast for scum to jump onto.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 519, Varsoon wrote:I literally cannot figure out how Zebu is scumreading me.
Oh.
Omgus~
Whamgus~
Bongus~
Wrongus~
I think ruling out the possibility of scum on Thor's wagon is a stupid thing. The swiftness of the hammer is null as fuck.
I think totally ruling out the possibility is ridiculous, but I think it is actually somewhat likely that there weren't any scum on it. And the swiftness is just a practical reason why scum may not be on the wagon. The final 3 votes coming in 90 minutes means any scum not on during that time couldn't get in on it. I'm sure a number of people aren't able to access during that time, so it isn't ridiculous to believe in the possibility of a total-town wagon.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 524, Varsoon wrote:In post 522, acryon wrote:
The final 3 votes coming in 90 minutes means any scum not on during that time couldn't get in on it.
Do you not think Zebulin is town?
That's sissy logic. Scum could easily be there in those votes.
This is stupid. All I said was given that window, it seems quite possible that scum didn't have time to get on. I think that is perfectly reasonable. Scum have more of an opportunity to get on a wagon when it goes from L-3 to Hammer in 24 hours than they do when it happens in 90 minutes; that's just a fact.
In post 524, Varsoon wrote:I don't think anyone is town until the mod proves me otherwise.
This is more stupid. I'm sure you'll help a lot with scum-hunting when you don't think anyone is town. /sGet to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 532, Varsoon wrote:Wrong, Acryon.
It's stupid to give scum the benefit of the doubt.
Scum hides in those little possibilities that you give them.
The second you stop suspecting players is the second you let scum win.
You should always be critical of everyone.
Obviously I'm never treating anyone like they are confirmed town unless they are confirmed, but not having a townpile just means your scum-reads are all over the place, which does nothing. If you don't believe people are town, then you at least must have some sort of spectrum of suspicion. In all actuality it is still a Town---Scum spectrum, but if you want to call it Less-likely scum-----Definite scum, then that's your thing I guess.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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I have voted.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 539, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
But it's a bad vote.
There is just no way scum!Boon hammers scum Thor like that. I just don't see it.
Let's get a Konowa wagon going.
I don't agree with there being no way he did that, and I'd rather leave it where it is until we can actually hear something else from Boon.
In post 541, Varsoon wrote:Yeah,
Basically what I'm saying is that I am not comfortable with 'clearing' anyone of suspicion unless the mod confirms they are town to me.
The notion that scum couldn't be in the hammering 90 minutes is faulty, because it seeks to clear suspicion based on logic that could be wrong.
Am I more willing to read Thor's wagon as town-oriented because it was a quick scum-flip? Sure.
But that doesn't mean I should stop critically reading what people on it have posted and continue to post.
Everyone should be given that critical lens, even if what they are doing is 'town'.
Again, I did not say scumcould notbe in the hammering. I said it is reasonable to believe that they couldn't be. I'm certainly not clearing anyone in that window. The only person I was/am clearing at the moment related to his wagon is Zeb. My response on this was merely commentary on the idea that the wagon could potentially have been fully-town, which I agree it could have been.
And I view everyone's statements critically, because even town are fallible people, but I have no problem not looking into someone like Zeb as scum at the moment, because the extremely high chance of him being town would make it a gigantic waste of my time. It's better spent on those that probably aren't town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 545, Varsoon wrote:I think that I'm just really fucking sick of getting tricked in a game where scum hold all the power, which makes me think that there's always some elaborate shit going on and if I'm not some sort of whistleblower to it then I'm getting dicked for it.
See: Literally every game Nacho or GIF or the-dude-with-the-angry-wolf-avatar bamboozles me.
I completely get that frustration and healthy skepticism is integral to winning, but there is also unhealthy skepticism, which can cause you to lose from being paranoid.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 550, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 546, acryon wrote:
I don't agree with there being no way he did that, and I'd rather leave it where it is until we can actually hear something else from Boon.
Scum motivation for doing it?
I mean, if Boon is scum, he is pretty bad. Like, the 'town-cred' he gets for hammering scum does not outweigh the advantages to having a 3-man scum-team alive with Thor in it IMO.
It just seems an awful move for scum to make.
Well if he is town, he is pretty bad too, given the hammer. So I think I feel fine not writing him off as scum just because it would be bad to do as scum. The hammer was bad to do as either alignment.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 564, Boonskiies wrote:In post 561, Varsoon wrote:There's pretty much no amalgamation when one of Gamsimbre and Goblin is not scum.
I can't figure the TWO of them to be town.
I'd throw Boon in that pile, but that's unnecessary.
If I was scum, you wouldn't be tunneling me so hard this early in the game.
Usually, when I'm town and people are pushing for my lynch hard is who usually ends up being scum. I seem like such an easy mislynch. Also, if I was scum, I would be crumbing a PR, which if you look at my ISO, I have not been at all.
Ahh, a bowl of self-meta and nice glass of WIFOM. The perfect meal.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 570, Boonskiies wrote:Eh, self-meta is a thing. Can be manipulated, but I almost always fake claim as scum. Meta's there for a reason.
And I hate meta, because if you "always fake claim as scum," then maybe you wouldn't this time to make us think you're not. It's even more worthless when you're the one who tells us about it.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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@Boon: Can you please say something that isn't self-meta or total WIFOM?
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Do you think Varsoon is scum as well?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 583, Konowa wrote:I don't know. I kind of like his response in #576.
My reads are still pretty much the same as they were at the end of D1, so there's that too.
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In post 589, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm serious.
The speed of this wagon in addition to the little resistance against it makes me think even more that Boon is town.
This is again a situation where I'm not sure scum have had an opportunity to possibly defend him. Considering three votes have come in the last hour. I won't argue with the speed being incredibly fast, but I'm hesitant to register the lack of resistance as town just yet.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 594, Boonskiies wrote:Well, boys. Just thought I'd look at some random games I've had, and searched my ISO's on them. All these links have me being scum read for "troll hammering", and I was put in a similar position as this one. Funny thing is, all of these, I was town. Some even PR. Although, when I 'troll hammer', I'm not actually troll hammering. Sure, I make it look like I am, but that's fun. I have my reasons for voting and going through with the hammer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6017243
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6087301
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6099332
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6180572 (Here I didn't actually hammer, but I thought I did.)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6126592 (This one brings up me saying how I will hammer if put to L-1 and make it HAMMA TIME!!!!!)
1) I want to let you know that, regardless of your reasons, the "troll hammers" are bad for town. So you can keep doing them and keep getting suspected as town, which is bad for town in every way, or you can think about adjusting your play going forward. Your choice of course.
2) You are being voted on for your troll-hammer.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 598, Boonskiies wrote:In post 595, acryon wrote:In post 589, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm serious.
The speed of this wagon in addition to the little resistance against it makes me think even more that Boon is town.
This is again a situation where I'm not sure scum have had an opportunity to possibly defend him. Considering three votes have come in the last hour. I won't argue with the speed being incredibly fast, but I'm hesitant to register the lack of resistance as town just yet.
That's not necessarily true. There's probably only two scum left, so it's very possible both are on my wagon.
Well sure, but this is a matter of likelihood, just like everything else in this game. And I think it's likely enough that I am not going to give you townpoints for the lack of resistance on your wagon.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 600, Boonskiies wrote:Acryon, ignorant again. They aren't actually troll hammers. read the damn thread. god.
That's why I put it in quotes. But if it looks like a troll-hammer to everyone else, then you're probably doing something wrong (hint: you are).Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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If you are town and keep getting lynched for doing the same thing, then just change your play; don't try to tell people it's not what it looks like. And again, the hammer itself isn't the reason you're in this position right now.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Boonskies and either you or one of the lurkers.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 605, Boonskiies wrote:After I'm lynched, you guys should follow BBT. He somehow always manages to figure things out, and people don't listen to him. LISTEN TO BBT. I don't care if you lynch me. If you need to get me out of the way, then fine. Just listen to BBT after toDay.
I agree, and I think BBT playing devil's advocate is great, because someone in town has to do it. Just like someone has to respond to the devil's advocate's questions and agree/disagree.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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@Boonskies: I am the second person who voted you, and the one that has stayed on you even when the tide was trying to shift to Varsoon/Konowa. I'd hardly say I'm a sheep just sliding along on the wagon. Whether you think I'm scum or not is another story, but saying that I'm just a sheep following the wagon is disingenuous at best.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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@Boon: I asked you who you thought was scum two pages ago, and you decided to ignore it. So I'll ask again: who do you think is scum? Besides obviously me now, although if you do somehow flip town, it may be beneficial to know where your head was at a few pages ago and not after all of this.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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@Mod: Can you confirm that Drake/Goblin/Gam have been prodded?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 620, Varsoon wrote:Ughhhhhhh
I hate feeling so conflicted on a vote.
Can we Goblin/Drake/Gam soon?
Well that's what's terrible is that there is always the chance that at least one(possibly more) of the remaining scum are just not here, which makes the game a lot harder for town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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I think he is scum, but I'd still rather see everyone sound off on this and not wrap it up in half a day.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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