Mini-Normal 1713: Mystery Mansion Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Davsto]

/confirm role PM

[Davsto]

VOTE: Accountant for insulting the Lord Colin.

You're making a Mochrie of me.

[Davsto]

His name is Colin Mochrie.

Pronounced similar to mockery.

LAUGH

[Davsto]

Ay. I like that pun. UNVOTE: Accountant.

VOTE: absta101 for having numbers in his name, the worst thing. This RVS vote is staying here I think.

[Davsto]

So Slandaar claims cop?

[Davsto]

*looks at Jake*

Are you like

In every game I am

D:

[Davsto]

Back on topic,

I think Wolfie and Expedience (Expy?) are being silly in thinking of this as some daring gambit. It's a simple joke that plenty of people as either alignment do all the time. "Practically confirmed town" is ridiculous.

It's weird that the gambit language has been repeated so much. And Wolfie looks like she has a lot more experience, it's weird that she'd buy into this kind of logic if she were actually trying to figure out if Slandaar were town or scum.

VOTE: SilverWolf

Definitely agreeing here.

Slandaar's comment and the other person's follow up was blatantly a joke, and why people are actually voting on the two based on that is beyond me. It's like super-reaching, trying to find evidence when there's nothing.

VOTE: SilverWolf

[Davsto]

Uh, sorry, I appear to have misplaced my vote, it wasn't silverwolf who voted someone (seemingly seriously) based on the stuff.
UNVOTE:
It was Performer.
VOTE: performer

However, SilverWolf, townreading them by that exchange is also silly. I just find reaching to vote on a single person more scummy than oddly townreading two people from it.
Excuse me while I facepalm for being silly enough to mix that up.

[Davsto]

Gah, screwed up the unvote.
UNVOTE: to make it clear for the mod.

Now VOTE: Performer

[Davsto]

Yeh, sorry, I saw Akarin's comment and vote on you and assumed you were one of the ones voting Slandaar, without checking.

[Davsto]

Are you calling Silverwolf scummy for calling the behaviour of Slandaar and Accountant town?

Potentially. I'm not saying it

is

scummy, but with an odd reason like that, there could potentially be some other reason than just stating opinions.

Of course, this on its own is barely worth considering as a read, but it was worth vaguely noting for future reference.

[Davsto]

No.

I mixed it up because I agreed with the points, but didn't realise that Akarin had placed her vote on someone that hadn't actually done that.

[Davsto]

Because someone voting Slandaar seriously on the joke because "it was totes a gambit" is a rather pathetic excuse to vote on someone.

[Davsto]

Let's take a look at the three votes on Slandaar, shall we?

I don't feel like voting any of you at the moment, instead, I shall just let you all know that I am town. I obviously wouldn't lie to you good people so this effectively makes me confirmed town! If only every townie was as clever as me and had thought of this great way to confirm themselves the game would be so easy!

VOTE: Slandaar

I know you're town. I'm actually mafia trying to push a quickhammer on a townie before people realize how confirmed he is.

Clearly a joke vote.

VOTE: Slandaar
1. OMGUS
2. Only player to confirm via PM

or Private Topic???

3. Tied leading wagons, fight!

A bit meh on this one, but doesn't seem to be making the vote based on the joke vote.

I think you missed the part where I confirmed myself as town using logics.

VOTE: Slandaar

As for someone claiming to be mafia or town...I played games on another site, where a few people did that early in day 1 and wow, it turned out quite bad for us townies, because they turned out to be something other than the claim.

On the other hand, Performer seemed to take the obvious joke seriously and actually voted based on it, by the looks of it.

That is why I voted Performer over the others.

[Davsto]

Why does Performer trying to find something scummy and get out of it seem scummy to you?

Performer was trying to find something scummy out of a joke, by reaching in an unreasonable manner. I find that behaviour scummy.

Davsto 's post 159 – you think it's pathetic but it was RVS, it’s early on day 1, so me putting a bit of pressure wouldn’t do harm if he really is town, or if he really is joking.

I think we're past RVS now, so why is your vote still sitting on him?

[Davsto]

First, someone being new to this site affects their ability to get a joke? What?

Secondly, enough people have pointed out that it's a joke and yet the vote is still there.

[Davsto]

Sorry guys, I've been kinda neglecting this game. I'm gonna read through it again sometime in the next 24 hours and see what I can get from it.

[Davsto]

Yo guys, I'm just gonna start reading through again now, sorry for neglecting this game again. Expect postwalls.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Davsto
For being a douche.

I don't like this reaction. Probably just because it's an insult. Be nice.

I think that you shouldn't be townreading based on meta. Meta is flexible, easily changed and can be used to justify almost anything. I'm sure I could find three examples of scum claiming town as well.

Keeping this in mind in case Accountant uses meta reads later in the game.

Anyway, a few things I don't like with this post;
1. Trying to appear newb by saying she hasn't completed a game on this site.
2. Her story about ToS seems like trying to make excuses for wrong reads.
VOTE: Accountant

I don't like this. Using a justification about someone possibly using something as an excuse for reads as an excuse to vote them

before they've actually used it as an excuse?

Ridiculous.

Uh, sorry, I appear to have misplaced my vote, it wasn't silverwolf who voted someone (seemingly seriously) based on the stuff.
UNVOTE: It was Performer.
VOTE: performer

However, SilverWolf, townreading them by that exchange is also silly. I just find reaching to vote on a single person more scummy than oddly townreading two people from it.
Excuse me while I facepalm for being silly enough to mix that up.

Let me guess; you mixed it up because you wanted to follow Akarin onto a town wagon.

post 79, Davsto"]Yeh, sorry, I saw Akarin's comment and vote on you and assumed you were one of the ones voting Slandaar, without checking.[/quote]
See my earlier point.
Willing to vote on Davsto.[/quote]Gonna be honest, in general Mario's posts look like he's trying to find an excuse to scumread literally everything everyone says, even if it requires serious reaching. Disliking.

However, one think I'd like to ask is; why did the vote go onto Performer rather than Expedience?
Is it because Expi's scum and therefore the other was chosen to be wagoned?

Leading questions are the worst kind of questions.

Why does Performer trying to find something scummy and get out of it seem scummy to you?

Performer was trying to find something scummy out of a joke, by reaching in an unreasonable manner. I find that behaviour scummy.

Davsto 's post 159 – you think it's pathetic but it was RVS, it’s early on day 1, so me putting a bit of pressure wouldn’t do harm if he really is town, or if he really is joking.

I think we're past RVS now, so why is your vote still sitting on him?

I don't see the difference between having no vote or having him on vote at this point so I'm just leaving my vote there. Personally can't decipher who's really town or mafia right now.

An excuse to keep a vote parked on someone without having to give justification. When town keeps a vote on someone, usually there's a reason.
post 166, MarioManiac4"]All of this would actually be irrelevant if Accountant said that she's not a bad town player and wouldn't point to it after pushing a town lynch.[/quote]I almost feel like this is coaching, telling Accountant to say this thing, rather than waiting for her to say it on her own.

No.

I mixed it up because I agreed with the points, but didn't realise that Akarin had placed her vote on someone that hadn't actually done that.

So Akarin placed her vote on the 'wrong person' so to say, that's not something you'd want to get into?

What I meant is, I had already found it suspicious when people had non-jokingly voted Slandaar for that blatant joke at the beginning, and I thought that's what Akarin had done too. In fact, she had voted for someone for townreading that, which is a more minor thing but still meh.
Anyway, it's got past the point where reading stuff based purely on that exchange makes sense, so
UNVOTE: Performer

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk) but as you can probably tell I dislike Mario's posts, at least early on. I know the behaviour has changed but scum know how to adapt to become more townie in the eyes of the players, so early posts (at least on D1) can sometimes be more telling.
VOTE: MarioManiac4

[Davsto]

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk)

What I mean to say here is, well, I was quite tiredly reading through this and, as a result, probably stopped paying as much attention by the last few pages (I noticed I got noticeably fewer - i.e. no - clear ideas from them and that's a bad sign), so I'l read through sometime I'm more awake so that I can actually pay attention. It seems like a lot has happened but I just didn't really pick up on it.

[Davsto]

You need to proof read post 254 Davsto. Some quotes aren't working.

Oh jesus. I really need to preview this shit. brb with a fixed version. Sorry.

[Davsto]

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk)

What I mean to say here is, well, I was quite tiredly reading through this and, as a result, probably stopped paying as much attention by the last few pages (I noticed I got noticeably fewer - i.e. no - clear ideas from them and that's a bad sign), so I'l read through sometime I'm more awake so that I can actually pay attention. It seems like a lot has happened but I just didn't really pick up on it.

Why did you need to clarify?

I felt I worded it in a mediocre way. Thought I'd make it clearer.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Davsto
For being a douche.

I don't like this reaction. Probably just because it's an insult. Be nice.

I think that you shouldn't be townreading based on meta. Meta is flexible, easily changed and can be used to justify almost anything. I'm sure I could find three examples of scum claiming town as well.

Keeping this in mind in case Accountant uses meta reads later in the game.

Anyway, a few things I don't like with this post;
1. Trying to appear newb by saying she hasn't completed a game on this site.
2. Her story about ToS seems like trying to make excuses for wrong reads.
VOTE: Accountant

I don't like this. Using a justification about someone possibly using something as an excuse for reads as an excuse to vote them

before they've actually used it as an excuse?

Ridiculous.

Uh, sorry, I appear to have misplaced my vote, it wasn't silverwolf who voted someone (seemingly seriously) based on the stuff.
UNVOTE: It was Performer.
VOTE: performer

However, SilverWolf, townreading them by that exchange is also silly. I just find reaching to vote on a single person more scummy than oddly townreading two people from it.
Excuse me while I facepalm for being silly enough to mix that up.

Let me guess; you mixed it up because you wanted to follow Akarin onto a town wagon.

Yeh, sorry, I saw Akarin's comment and vote on you and assumed you were one of the ones voting Slandaar, without checking.

See my earlier point.
Willing to vote on Davsto.

Gonna be honest, in general Mario's posts look like he's trying to find an excuse to scumread literally everything everyone says, even if it requires serious reaching. Disliking.

However, one think I'd like to ask is; why did the vote go onto Performer rather than Expedience?
Is it because Expi's scum and therefore the other was chosen to be wagoned?

Leading questions are the worst kind of questions.

Why does Performer trying to find something scummy and get out of it seem scummy to you?

Performer was trying to find something scummy out of a joke, by reaching in an unreasonable manner. I find that behaviour scummy.

Davsto 's post 159 – you think it's pathetic but it was RVS, it’s early on day 1, so me putting a bit of pressure wouldn’t do harm if he really is town, or if he really is joking.

I think we're past RVS now, so why is your vote still sitting on him?

I don't see the difference between having no vote or having him on vote at this point so I'm just leaving my vote there. Personally can't decipher who's really town or mafia right now.

An excuse to keep a vote parked on someone without having to give justification. When town keeps a vote on someone, usually there's a reason.

All of this would actually be irrelevant if Accountant said that she's not a bad town player and wouldn't point to it after pushing a town lynch.

I almost feel like this is coaching, telling Accountant to say this thing, rather than waiting for her to say it on her own.

No.

I mixed it up because I agreed with the points, but didn't realise that Akarin had placed her vote on someone that hadn't actually done that.

So Akarin placed her vote on the 'wrong person' so to say, that's not something you'd want to get into?

What I meant is, I had already found it suspicious when people had non-jokingly voted Slandaar for that blatant joke at the beginning, and I thought that's what Akarin had done too. In fact, she had voted for someone for townreading that, which is a more minor thing but still meh.
Anyway, it's got past the point where reading stuff based purely on that exchange makes sense, so
UNVOTE: Performer

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk) but as you can probably tell I dislike Mario's posts, at least early on. I know the behaviour has changed but scum know how to adapt to become more townie in the eyes of the players, so early posts (at least on D1) can sometimes be more telling.
VOTE: MarioManiac4

[Davsto]

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk)

What I mean to say here is, well, I was quite tiredly reading through this and, as a result, probably stopped paying as much attention by the last few pages (I noticed I got noticeably fewer - i.e. no - clear ideas from them and that's a bad sign), so I'l read through sometime I'm more awake so that I can actually pay attention. It seems like a lot has happened but I just didn't really pick up on it.

Why did you need to clarify?

I felt I worded it in a mediocre way. Thought I'd make it clearer.

It was already pretty clear to me. What's weird to me now is that you reworded that part of your post but needed to be asked to clean up the rest of it. Makes me think your priorities are with looking town, not scumhunting.

Nah, it's because I actively remembered I worded something a bit oddly so I went to fix it, but I didn't actually look at my post until it was pointed out.

[Davsto]

Bleeehhh, again I'm too tired etc to read through the thread and make sense of it and I don't feel like I'll have another day before, well, the lynch goes ahead.

Gave the thread a quick read, took notes, agree with basically every point on Expedience. An unwillingness to vote on someone you supposedly suspect is usually scum who doesn't want to look suspicious for voting, and him putting the vote on with little pressure also looks like scum trying to fit in and stuff. I am aware since these are both things I am often tempted to do as scum (and may have done in my first Newbie game, I don't really remember that well).

UNVOTE:

Stating intent to hammer on Expedience

[Davsto]

Gonna be honest, a lot of those replies were more rubbish and really dodgy soooo

========[]
VOTE: Expedience

[Davsto]

I have a question for Grayfoxxxx, and that is I want him to claim. Now.

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

All will be revealed once he does. If he gives the answer I expect, I've found scum.

[Davsto]

I understand this looks as fishy as all hell, but I'll be willing to give a good reason for it after his claim.

[Davsto]

Yay.

I claim 1-Shot Vigilante. I shot Grayfoxxxx last night. This gives three notable possibilities.

1) He is Bulletproof - this was the most likely, he would know why I was asking if he were Bulletproof, yet he has claimed VT, so that is out of the window.
2) He was protected by a Town Doctor - I find this improbable, to say the least, due to him hardly being a worthy person to protect.
And 3, which I now believe happened:
3) He was protected by a Mafia Doctor, predicting a Vigilante kill. Thus, he is most likely Mafia.

[Davsto]

Note: Srsly this is L-1 be careful already

[Davsto]

UNVOTE:

Ok. Just why didn't you give anyone a chance to respond to Expedience's claim yesterday?

I apologise, I wasn't entirely aware that you should give people time to react. I wasn't swayed by his Vanilla claim and also disliked all the posts he made leading up to said claim, so I used my vote.

[Davsto]

UNVOTE: GrayFox

Davsto, you haven't considered all the possibilities there. You could have been blocked.

Ah, oops, forgot that. Used to a version of IRC Mafia where you're specifically told if you're Roleblocked.
UNVOTE: Grayfoxxxx
Wait, does this mean I still have my Shot or is it still lost?

[Davsto]

Yay.

I claim 1-Shot Vigilante. I shot Grayfoxxxx last night. This gives three notable possibilities.

1) He is Bulletproof - this was the most likely, he would know why I was asking if he were Bulletproof, yet he has claimed VT, so that is out of the window.
2) He was protected by a Town Doctor - I find this improbable, to say the least, due to him hardly being a worthy person to protect.
And 3, which I now believe happened:
3) He was protected by a Mafia Doctor, predicting a Vigilante kill. Thus, he is most likely Mafia.

pedit: Davsto, you basically confirmed Gray (or you) as Mafia? I don't get your caution?

Just in case someone makes a point like Delibird's. As in, the possibility of something I stupidly didn't consider.

[Davsto]

This is assuming that you were blocked, because the idea of a roleblocker is much more plausible to me than there being a mafia doctor (already an unusual role) targeting GrayFox of all people

Mafia Doctor appears sometimes as a counter to a Vigilante.

And as to why they protected Grayfoxxxx, he had already been seen as a good target for a Vig kill (someone actually said it iirc), and if he were scum a Mafia Doctor would probably be inclined to protect him for being a likely target, and not wanting a fellow scum to die.

[Davsto]

But, at any rate, GrayFox: let's talk about why you were so incredibly absent Yesterday that someone tried to vig you.

I can't speak for others. Someone said he was a rolecop? How could he shoot me?

He explicitly claimed last page. Keep up, man.

326

If you read Davsto's post it implies Rolecop.
I don't know what to think because I actually really thought Davsto was scum...

For the record, I leaned it towards sounding like Role Cop because if I made it too clear why I wanted him to claim (i.e. me being Vig) he may know what to have claimed.

[Davsto]

UNVOTE: GrayFox

Davsto, you haven't considered all the possibilities there. You could have been blocked.

Ah, oops, forgot that. Used to a version of IRC Mafia where you're specifically told if you're Roleblocked.
UNVOTE: Grayfoxxxx
Wait, does this mean I still have my Shot or is it still lost?

Wait, are you throwing away your other options and just assume it was a roleblock?

Due to the other possibility of a Roleblock, I'm no longer considering the Mafia Doctor possibility enough to lynch yet. We'll see what unfolds.

After all, especially considering my admittedly questionable hammer yesterday, I can see why I'd be a likely target of a Town Roleblocker.

[Davsto]

@Grayfox: I'd like that analysis from you now.

Seconding this

[Davsto]

@Grayfox: I'd like that analysis from you now.

I'm sitting in a lobby, just trying to get in some quick play.

I'm not about to write up a whole reads list

now

.

Wait, you mean you didn't have any of it written? At all?

[Davsto]

What post do you think I'm not reading?

Well, I don't know why anyone who'd read Davsto's 322 (his explicit vig claim) and 326 in sequence would come out of it thinking that Davsto was claiming rolecop. One was Davsto claiming, and the other was Mario reacting to that claim by saying that what he thought was being hinted at (rolecop) wasn't actually the case. It reads really obviously to me,

but if you were confused,

that's fine. I don't think that this is

as big a deal as the number of posts that we're taking to communicate this would imply.

Yea just a little confused.

It's a big deal? Oh ok.

Basically, you highlighted a bit where he said "it's a big deal", and said "oh it's a big deal?" Totally ignoring the negative before it. You're basically doing what the news did in the second Scooby-Doo live action film.

[Davsto]

Sure. SW and wanderer are my top 2 scum picks.

Why?

[Davsto]

Right, while I am aware that all the stuff that happened with my role is in no way indicative of Grayfoxxxx's alignment, I'm remembering why I chose him as a target in the first place - as in, I think he's scum.

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

Expect an ISO of his posts coming up some time later in the game-day

[Davsto]

And no, that's how strong my scumread on Davsto was.

Wait a second, wasn't your scumread on me not really a thing until

after

I hammered?

[Davsto]

but... but...
greyfox is scum

Grayfoxxxx could just be badtown, to be honest, I'd rather get this out of the way first.

On the other hand, Wanderer-nl claimed that he sheeped my intent to hammer because of his scumread on me (which makes little sense in the first place but idk)

which didn't exist at the time.

VOTE: Wanderer

This is L-1 and stuff, tho. Be careful please, we have a lot of time left. I want to do an ISO on Wanderer first (the Grayfoxxxx one can wait).

[Davsto]

See how quickly that wagon on Grayfoxxx disappeared?
Don't any of you find it suspicious?

Wanderer did something that seemed notably more scummy than Grayfoxxxx's bumbling, I don't see how this is suspicious.

I have never really found wagons randomly appearing or disappearing particularly indicative of anyone's alignments involved, or at least not in a consistent, readable way.

[Davsto]

Also, here's a properly written tip because I feel SEish;
Scum would love for a wagon on scum to dissapear. They'll do what they can to stop it from going through.
Scum would hate for a wagon on town to dissapear. They'll force the wagon through and try to stop it from falling to the non-entity the grayfoxxx wagon is.

Sure, they'd love for it to happen. Does that mean that when a wagon disappears the person it disappeared from is scum? Hell no, it happens quite a lot with no indication of the alignment.

For example, you are trying to revive this grayfoxxxx wagon to stop it from being a non-entity. Does that instantly mean you are scum trying to keep a wagon on town when it's rapidly moving onto scum? No, that is but one possibility and is, frankly, silly to assume.

[Davsto]

See how quickly that wagon on Grayfoxxx disappeared?
Don't any of you find it suspicious?

No... It was only you and me voting him. I'm not even sure if you can call that a wagon and even if you could, it was only me that moved off it (and hence why it disappeared "quickly").

I was voting him for a short while. And I do mean short.

[Davsto]

I was also scumreading Davsto and mistakenly thought we were much closer to DL. I was afraid Davsto wouldn't hammer. Which was stupid, I realize that now. My scumread on Davsto grew stronger when I saw his hammer.

Okay so

you were scumreading me. Fair enough. I can see why.

so, you were scared I wouldn't hammer. Makes sense.

but, by following that logic, why was it suspicious that I

did

hammer?



Also, your push on me? Lemme see it, or I'l probably see it when I start to ISO you in about 30 minutes or so~

[Davsto]

Okay, starting the ISO now, may take a while.

Let's gooooo!

[Davsto]

oh I'm gonna stab a pony

Start from the first quote I actually commented on, fucking quote feature is borked.

[Davsto]

@mod, if you can, edit that and remove all of the uncommented on quotes (all of the ones before the second quoting of Post 130)

[Davsto]

I'll read the wall at home.
poiny me to where I said exp was suddenly a townread. Because all I remwmber saying is that I would have unvoted if I could to discuss. I also said somewhere I never expected exp to not get lynched. Read my posts pls not what other people are saying about me.

For the record, the wall is nowhere near as big as it actually looks, I'm just a fuckup.

@Fraggernaut, just to clarify - did you read my request and have a reason not to do it, or did you miss it?

[Davsto]

Here we go, screwed up the first attempt because I had a bazillion quotes but YAY DONE THANKS FRAGGER
This was originally at the position of #488

UNVOTE:
I think Mario is trying to see more in that post than there really is, like he was looking for a reason to just jump this wagon. Also too soon for L-1 imo, plenty players haven't posted yet since RVS.

I've never liked this in players. Often, people jumping off someone they scumread tend to be scum scared of a quickhammer that can make them seem suspicious upon a flip, or trying to look townie by "avoiding" L-1. The fact that Wanderer never actually goes back onto Accountant despite this I like even less.

If I'm not missing something about Ara claiming Performer thought slandaar was town then most of the wagon is built on sand.
The fact that Accountant and Performer were counterwagons also give me a townread on that slot.

Can you please make this a little more clear because I have no idea what wagon you mean and whom you're townreading.

So I thought Performer was being voted for townreading Slandaar for a moment, when that didn't happen.
I was townreading Performer.

Ara is Akarin?
Most of what wagon was built on sand?

So what did happen?
Are you still townreading Performer?

Does any of this this change anthing of your read on Accountant?

A slightly irrelevant bringing up of Accountant, trying to keep the wagon in people's heads? Not so sure here.

I think it's weird you wouldn't want to put a vote out. Mario is nowhere close to lynch and if you really support the wagon, you should want to be on it, no?

Again, said by someone who unvoted their wagon, who would no longer be put by L-1 at this point.

I'd like Mario and Accountant to take a break from each other. I think it's TvT and it's letting scum coast by quietly. I don't have much time right now, have to go in a bit, but won't be long and I'll reread this thread and look at several iso's to break out of this Mario vs Accountant for a while. If either one is scum it will show when we change the subject but I dont think this 'you're scum no I'm not yes you are' is going to help us much further.

Any attempt to read this now would result in confbias, but if Wanderer does flip scum, I'm keeping this in mind.

I never said I had a townread, or any read for that matter, on Slandaar, just that I didn't take his conftown-shit seriously or as a reason for scumreading him.

So you don't take the conftown joke seriously, but the confscum one? So much.

Anyway, while I haven't commented on later stuff since it isn't really causing me that much reads either way (I may have to read through again tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and maybe that'll give me a different view on it idk)

What I mean to say here is, well, I was quite tiredly reading through this and, as a result, probably stopped paying as much attention by the last few pages (I noticed I got noticeably fewer - i.e. no - clear ideas from them and that's a bad sign), so I'l read through sometime I'm more awake so that I can actually pay attention. It seems like a lot has happened but I just didn't really pick up on it.

Why did you need to clarify?

I felt I worded it in a mediocre way. Thought I'd make it clearer.

It was already pretty clear to me. What's weird to me now is that you reworded that part of your post but needed to be asked to clean up the rest of it. Makes me think your priorities are with looking town, not scumhunting.

Pretty damn reachy. Like, I didn't stress this enough - how is clearing up something I said which I, personally, thought was confusing to others in the way I worded it, scummy?

@Performer: What kind of connection did you see?
Also, Accountant joked(?) about being scum in response to Slandaar's opening posts. Why did you ignore her claim?

77 +1

@Expedience:

*cut*

Does anyone actually think I was afraid of voting for Mario?

*cut*

(A lot was cut from this post, click the link to read the full thing, I hate walls)

@Wanderer, @Accountant: Yes, I see what you mean.

I was more afraid of breaching some kind of different voting etiquette

because there are more scum with capacity to quickhammer. But on day 1 and with this few votes on Mario that wasn't particularly thoughtful of me.

VOTE: MarioManiac4

@Silverwolf: Why would Expedience townread Accountant in his position if they are buddies? (281)
I don't townread Accountant, I think she could be scum because I did see some scummy things, but there are other things that make me wonder and she can't answer anymore. I know I'm being vague, but I want a replacement before I put down all my thoughts.
I'm going afk for a few hours. I've been thinking between this line of text and the last one and I think it sucks that I'm putting off posting my thoughts on Accountant. So I'm going to post them either tonight (depends on how caught up I get in my other activity) or first chance I get tomorrow.

Wait a second, is this the only thing she was scumreading around on? People who hinge on a single thing to read people as scum are meh in my eyes.

UNVOTE: GrayFox

Davsto, you haven't considered all the possibilities there. You could have been blocked.

Ah, oops, forgot that. Used to a version of IRC Mafia where you're specifically told if you're Roleblocked.
UNVOTE: Grayfoxxxx
Wait, does this mean I still have my Shot or is it still lost?

Wait, are you throwing away your other options and just assume it was a roleblock?

I don't like that she doesn't like that someone made a good point and now we're apparently "ignoring other possibilities". Someone doesn't like this wagon disappearing even though the main thing it was founded on was 99% disproved.

(also, I don't have my shot anymore, sadly)

I'm probably going to iso [Davsto] tonight

Not analysing, just noting that this hasn't happened yet.

Although I'm not townreading Wanderer, he definitely deserves looking at. He's just not my top priority.

The way Wanderer responded to Slandaar's push yesterday has him firmly placed at my #2 scum read.

Can you explain what exactly you thought was scummy about my response to Slandaar?

Also, would I want to kill the one person who was scumreading me? That seems stupid, but oh well.

About Davsto: I wasn't feeling all too good about him yesterday (it's actally visible in my iso).

Yes, I backed the intent to hammer because at the time I also thought Expedience was scummy too and I was afraid Davsto actually wouldn't hammer. But then Expedience posted a lot and scum would minimize associations so when I saw those posts by Expedience I was ready to unvote, only to realize the thread was locked because

Davsto hammered 2 freaking minutes after Expedience's claim. And thát's what my scumread was for.

Some of you also seem to have missed I unvoted Davsto immediately after he started posting and joined pushing on Grayfox.

I didn't immediately jump on the wagon because I was still scumreading Davsto at the time.

PEdit: new posts showed up while I wrote this that I will read now.

Colour coded because several points and too lazy to split up quote.

Brought this up despite the previous person not actually making a point about it, as far as I can see. Seemed like a thing she came up with prior to choosing the nightkill for her own protection.

I can't see it. I see two posts finding a way to find my innocent mistake (misplacing vote) and my self-correction scummy, and that's about it.

Wait, what? Now she's saying that the hammer

is

what she scumread me before, despite largely defending that it totally wasn't why.

Because, you know, sheeping someone you previously scumread but everyone else is townreading is totally townie. I don't like this.

[Davsto]

I'm currently on phone so I'm not able to really split it up. If you want I can delete that post & you can give it another go or just leave it

@mod - reposted, please delete the failure version so it isn't taking up far too much room. Thanks

[Davsto]

Oh, by the way, in case I die tonight, I seriously recommend a Performer lynch tomorrow, regardless of flips or WIFOM regarding my death or lack thereof.

[Davsto]

I'm done repeating myself. Also there are a lot of inconsistencies by now in my iso so I agree I need to be lynched. It's ok, I'm a vt so go ahead.
Performer is scum; he's always having the wagonee as biggest scumread.
Silverwolf is someone to be looked at, she hasn't really done much to figure things out imo.
If Grayfox flips scum, take a look at Akarin as well:

Like akas last post. Gives reasoning that's easy to follow, and follows up with a vote instead of just pointing fingers.

Oh and I never went back to Accountant because I was doubting my scumread due to an ongoing, I thought I said this somewhere and I cba to look it up. I may have forgotten. I'm also not scumreading CDB even though Silverwolf saw Accountant join a new game right after replacing out of this.

VOTE: performer

This post is why.
This doesn't read as town giving up, it reads as scum at L-1 trying to give the impression of town giving up to get votes of them. AtE. The reads are quite basic, to give the impression of trying to guide town.

Now, the reason I say the whole Performer thing is I haven't been a massive fan of Performer anyway and he should be considered as a good target for if Wanderer flips town because of the late vote.
On the other hand, if Wanderer flips scum, that vote in the post really feels like a bus. A sort of, while dying, last ditch attempt to distance the scum partner.

[Davsto]

I actually would be wiling to lynch grayfoxxxx today if town wanted to go that way. I really don't like that two VT claims are out there plus the vig claim. It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

Vanilla Townie is the most common role in Mafia. You shouldn't be surprised that more than one is in the game.

[Davsto]

I actually would be wiling to lynch grayfoxxxx today if town wanted to go that way. I really don't like that two VT claims are out there plus the vig claim. It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

Vanilla Townie is the most common role in Mafia. You shouldn't be surprised that more than one is in the game.

Post 511 is about them being suspect rather than surprise. What in the post communicates surprise?

Okay then, you shouldn't find it suspicious that more than one is in the game.

[Davsto]

But she says about lynching one of the VT claimers just because they claimed VT. I mean, what?

[Davsto]

I actually would be wiling to lynch grayfoxxxx today if town wanted to go that way. I really don't like that two VT claims are out there plus the vig claim. It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

for this reason alone

I mean, am I reading this wrong or what?

[Davsto]

I wasn't finding it like super suspicious, I guess I just didn't like the way it was worded. I'm gonna assume that there's nothing there and I'm just reading too deep.

Anyway, I'm still pretty certain of scum in Wanderer, and I don't see anything beyond a power role's result changing my mind on this.

[Davsto]

Also, for a record, presuming 3 scum,

there is a good chance we'll be mylo tomorrow.

Please keep that in mind.

[Davsto]

Only if you lynch town today.

Presuming that, yes, probably should have pointed that out.

[Davsto]

Can Grayfox just be force-replaced so I can at least have a decent 1v1? Because it would suck BIG TIME to lose this to an inactive player and it would even suck more if Grayfox turns out to be town as well.

Who said this was a 1v1?

[Davsto]

Oh, that's odd, what happened to Wanderer's "lynch me, I would, I've been inconsistent" attitude?

I feel that she tried that to get people to unvote her, and when it failed, is now resorting to trying to pick apart arguments.

[Davsto]

I dislike Grayfoxxxx. He's probably scum. But I don't want to lynch him today. Why?

Because there's a good chance I'm dying tonight. Grayfoxxxx is gonna get lynched at some point, it's borderline fact that if he survives today he'll probably get lynched tomorrow or the day after.

On the other hand, I'd like to push through one of the people I think are scum

now,

in case town lacks the pusher to shove them through to a lynch if I die. Sure, I'll settle for a Grayfoxxxx lynch, but only if we're running out of time and undecided.

[Davsto]

For the record, I'm okay with either a Wanderer or Performer lynch today, either/or will do.

[Davsto]

My finger is itching closer and closer towards a Performer lynch, since I didn't like earlier posts and I'm starting to feel less like Wanderer is scum.

Has Performer claimed?

[Davsto]

VOTE: Performer

I haven't liked him through a lot of the game, and that hasn't changed, and he's claimed VT so that's alright.

Probably gonna do an ISO within a few hours, depending how awake I feel.

[Davsto]

@Davsto:

How experienced overall would you say you are at Mafia?

Mediocre, as you can probably tell.

I've played a lot of mafia games on an IRC channel but it's an entirely different playstyle. I have finished two games on here (both of which I lost lol) and currently about 5 games happening.

TL;DR - played a lot of mafia, but this is a different playstyle due to a different atmosphere and userbase (as well as gameplay in general due to IRC/Forum differences), so I wouldn't call myself anything other than okay.

[Davsto]

Nice job, CDB.

VOTE: Octopus

Also, now I'm pretty damn sure the other scum is Grayfoxxxx. The mixture of the "woah slow down" on a wagon which was scum and the first part of Performer's final post which reads so damn much like distancing makes me at least 90% sure it is Grayfoxxxx. That's the lynch for tomorrow.

[Davsto]

@davsto: also 68.

What about 68?

[Davsto]

If you all can't read then you all can't read.
Go ahead and lynch, and when I flip town then you might do the right thing and lynch Mario and Wanderer. If you are still one short then it's CDB

Of course not one of you has thought to ask CDB how Performer's ISO lead him to conclude I should be jailed, nor have you apparently thought that, being in jail, I might have been the failed target for the nightkill.

Please, at least allow me to self hammer as I like to do this when being lynched for fucking retarded reasons.

a) We know that there is a damn good likelihood that he is Jailer. I mean, I was blocked from my Vig kill, so it supports that.
b) If he's lying, he just pulled a no-kill gambit to lynch an already fairly questionable player, knowing that if the player were to flip town, he would be lynched tomorrow, completely offsetting the benefit of the no-kill gambit at all.
c) Yeh right would scum try to kill you. Why would they kill you over me, who was being massively townread

and

there is a risk of me having more shots?
d) That entire last sentence is AtE of the purest form.
e) Please don't use that word, thanks.

[Davsto]

Nice job, CDB.

VOTE: Octopus

Also, now I'm pretty damn sure the other scum is Grayfoxxxx. The mixture of the "woah slow down" on a wagon which was scum and the first part of Performer's final post which reads so damn much like distancing makes me at least 90% sure it is Grayfoxxxx. That's the lynch for tomorrow.

My last "ok cool" post was sarcasm. Performs last post look like super WIFOM, and is actually making me rethink my view on SW.

Pls consider other lynches for tommorow.

Nah, his last post looks like an attempt to distance you from him by going "also I'm kinda suspicious of Gray" and I'm like 99% sure that scum!Performer wouldn't say that genuinely, and also lumped SilverWolf in there to "throw us off the scent" as it were.

Also, why are you not voting Octopus?

[Davsto]

Pls consider other lynches for tommorow.

Something about this sentence in particular rubs me the wrong way, and I can't quite pin down why. Making a note to see why.

[Davsto]

IF your claim is accepted then you are little more than a VT, why would an NK be used on a VT, when there is a known, and presumably still active, power role in the game?

Because Vigilantes often claim to be One-Shot so that they don't get nightkilled when they actually have more shots. Also, getting rid of borderline conftowns is always a good idea as scum.

I seriously, seriously,

seriously

doubt that scum would nightkill you of all people. No offence, but it's true.

[Davsto]

Seriously, this is flailing on its highest level. I say someone hammers and we just put Octo out of their misery.

[Davsto]

Octopus, if you are claiming a power role, go ahead and say what it is, but I don't believe that you would have been a likely target for a kill. Honestly, I was worried that I would be dead if I chose the wrong target because I felt like it might have been obvious Yesterday that I was hinting at being Davsto's blocker.

Yeh, I picked up on that, which is why I dropped the subject pretty quickly.

[Davsto]

@Davsto: I felt 68 was an association between the two, so that's why I made a mental note of it. It's basically the only *read* he posts Day 1.
397 is his only interaction with Akarin and it could be SvS, Akarin says she prefers Grayfox and at that point in the game I can see at least one scum bussing a buddy. She never voted there though, and she went into lurk-mode until getting replaced.
597 Akarin is safely in the middle of the readslist. 615 no comments on Akarin from Grayfox as he sees that she's getting replaced.
Now hesitant to vote Octopus.

PEdit: lots, reading up.

Oh yeh, I forgot that Octo replaced Akarin, that's my bad.

[Davsto]

Fun fact: That took 41 minutes and 19 seconds from daystart to hammer. I've played longer days than that on IRC Mafia.

[Davsto]

Gonna be honest, I actually did a double take when October flipped town. I'm liking Gray so far. Well post more when more happens.

[Davsto]

Actually, I just found something I noted down last night.

I'm cool for a Octo lynch, pending a little reading.

I'm sure I'll be voting for octo, just want to reread a bit before I drop the vote.

I don't like Gray staying off the wagon here. I feel like he was staying off a wagon he knew was town to get towncred.
Along with all of the other things we've said time and time again, I feel this is the best option today.
VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

[Davsto]

UNVOTE:
Gonna be honest SilverWolf, I was considering Mario anyway for his Chainsaw Defending of Performer D1, when I was suspicious of Performer and as a result Mario started going after me.

Also, I understand that you're annoyed that you didn't get a result yesterday, but now you have a town result on Wanderer, who I'm thinking we had a good chance of lynching later on in the day.

Consider this an unhammerable L-1 on Mario or something because I'm not voting because yesterdays speedlynch took so much out of me.

[Davsto]

Since Wanderer is stating intent to vote, I'll state the intent to hammer, but I'll give people ~36 hours

so I can do it at a more convenient time

[Davsto]

EBWOP: as in, I'll leave a nice 36 hour gap between now and the hammer to let discussion take place, and I also won't shut off a conversation halfway through.

Also, may I note that this Cop claim is really believable setup-spec wise: it prevents Follow the Cop by having the protective role also roleblock.

[Davsto]

VOTE: absta101

Let's go!

[Davsto]

Hopefully Silver's posts are enough to make people go this way but if people really want I can go a bit more in-depth, I did a bit of reading during the night to decide if I agreed with Silver so if enough people

are stubborn

don't agree with voting absta I can help.

[Davsto]

Yay!

My first win on Mafia Scum, hurrah!

Well played everyone. Absta in particular - I was a bit iffy on you most of the game, but I don't think I'd have been convinced to lynch you if not for PoE.

[Davsto]

Oh and thanks for modding Frag, you did a good job, despite the aidsiness of the self-hammers and the like.