Mini Normal 1814 Machiavellian Mafia (Game Over)

[iraonavp]

Vote Rosske then!

How can you rationalize calling him town-aligned unless you subscribe to that argument for why he didn't die?

[iraonavp]

Okay, you're scum-aligned then.

[iraonavp]

No, that's awful and doesn't make any sense.

You are using VCA incredibly misrepresentatively.

In fact, it proves you as scum-aligned in the exact same way it proves Dwlee as scum-aligned!

[iraonavp]

I don't really remember you having a scumread on DW.

Map (confirmed town) and Ross both had wagons of little resistance. That to me makes me think that there is scum on those wagons and the only 3 names that appear on both wagons are me, DW and Zap. I am confirmed town to myself so...

also if you have a scumread on DW why is my thinking there is scum on the wagons flawed?

No, I always thought Dwlee was town-aligned.

You quoting two wagons like it is actual evidence proves nothing.

I know that "little resistance" is easily manipulated by scum-aligned players to reach any conclusion that you want to reach.

[iraonavp]

If you're confirmed as town-aligned to yourself, how does it make Dwlee scum-aligned to be on the wagons in the

exact same position as you

?

You don't believe what you're saying at all!

[iraonavp]

If you're confirmed as town-aligned to yourself, how does it make Dwlee scum-aligned to be on the wagons in the

exact same position as you

?

You don't believe what you're saying at all!

He's saying that scum were on wagons like map/ross and the only people that were the same on said wagons were him DW and Zap and from his pov as town it makes DW and Zap likely partners.

NEROCAIN was on the same wagons, that's what I'm saying.

[iraonavp]

No, both Zap Rowsdower and Dwlee are town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

NEROCAIN was on the same wagons, that's what I'm saying.

yes and?

No, both Zap Rowsdower and Dwlee are town-aligned...

why?

I adamantly refuse to confer with scum-aligned players.

[iraonavp]

If you're confirmed as town-aligned to yourself, how does it make Dwlee scum-aligned to be on the wagons in the

exact same position as you

?

You don't believe what you're saying at all!

He's saying that scum were on wagons like map/ross and the only people that were the same on said wagons were him DW and Zap and from his pov as town it makes DW and Zap likely partners.

NEROCAIN was on the same wagons, that's what I'm saying.

No Ira you're not understanding let me tell you this way

Let's look at this from Nero's pov as a TOWN PLAYER

The 2 major bw's that started that day were Ross and Map (Map being town) the only 3 players who were on both of these wagons were Nero DW and Zap Nero brought up the point that scum are most likely on the major wagons and that's true so if scum are likely to be on big wagons and Nero is town you take him out that leaves Zap and Dw who he said are likely to be partners if we follow that logic it's true.

Except he's not town-aligned...

If the reasoning he's using proves himself as scum-aligned so he has to take himself out, that's why it's really bad reasoning.

[iraonavp]

Yes, because you know I'm town-aligned!

Everyone should realize how awful that post is considering how NEROCAIN has been trying to call me scum-aligned all game...

[iraonavp]

I never even played a newbie game...

Stop trying to discredit me.

[iraonavp]

No, I am not...

This discussion is not relevant, please stop attacking me...

[iraonavp]

No, I already said that is a nonsense argument.

[iraonavp]

And it was NEROCAIN's gun that you shot yourself with...

[iraonavp]

I actually agree with that.

[iraonavp]

No one's actually explained to me why Ira is scum

There is no reason ever...

Please claim, the wagon is steadily progressing.

[iraonavp]

That is a void argument. He is only being asked to claim because he is avoiding to claim...

[iraonavp]

I don't want to lynch you, I just want you to claim and then we see where to go from there.

You are proving yourself as scum-aligned by refusing to claim...

[iraonavp]

No, that is false.

[iraonavp]

I checked and I still think BigYoshiFan's last few posts are town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Checking in.

Not sure how I feel about iraonavp this game with all those ellipses.

What?

[iraonavp]

Or let him claim when he's darn good and ready? If you're just very publicly manufacturing a scenario for him to be under pressure (which doesn't exist btw) and then claim, he'll know it's all just a play, and consequently you will know his reaction to be more controlled and disingenuous.

Well, we don't know if he's mafia, and I think there is a good chance that he is which is why I'm so persistent on his claim. I'm sure you know that is he was mafia you would want a claim now. This post is very scumlike to me, mainly for that first question.

Or let him claim when he's darn good and ready?

"Controlled" is the last thing you want mafia to be; you want them to panic, which is the reason why pressure, which doesn't exist, exists.
Really, the fact that Ira is so insistent that Rosske should claim should tell you everything you need to know about whether Rosske should claim.

Okay, what if I want him to claim?

This is town, because BigYoshiFan is pushing his agenda clearly and confidently in the face of and in contrast to Comparing Realities' deference and rhetoric.

I don't trust any of you now. I feel so alone. ;-;

This is town. BigYoshiFan has genuine paranoia, I would almost always trust someone who posts this, especially with ";-;".

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Comparing Realities

[iraonavp]

Gerry's acting so defensive and upset didn't you TR map also why are you THIS upset you can't hard townread someone that hard I don't get why you're so hyper all of a sudden.

His emotion seems very town-aligned to me, reinforced it for me when I was starting to doubt.

[iraonavp]

[quote="In post 1427

All is evidence. You've raised a few accusations against me; if I succeed in dispelling them, then do you agree that they are null and void? I've been waiting all game for Ira to raise an adequate defense. How disappointing it would be if I weren't offered the same courtesy.

Forethoughts: I expected as much from Ira, sheeping a BW started by Nero, one of Ira's principle scumreads, only because they dropped their scumread on Ira in the same post that they initiated the BW against the person who's pushing hardest for Ira's lynch. That's not OOC for them. But then; Maria gets a gold medal for New Zealand in Olympic Sheeping. Nero says he likes you, and immediately thereafter you're voting someone who isn't even among your top three scumreads. Look at the vote count. Shifting L-3 from Rosske to me did little, statistically speaking. However, are you honestly insinuating that I am scum, when BYF, Rosske, and Ira, the three most scumread people in this game, are sitting there ripe for the noose?
Do you honestly believe I ought to die, even though I'm not even in your top three scumreads list, in a situation with three scum left and only two MLs left before LyLo?
Or did you figure that my blood would fall on Nero's hands, and that you'd be relatively clear of suspicion for being on the wagon?
Do you legitimately not care who gets lynched?

I don't get how you don't townread these lines and the thought processes behind them.[/quote]
No, that's the very scum-aligned part. Behind all the fake eloquence it is extremely suspicious...

[iraonavp]

I was unsure of him going into N1 so I checked him and after SCREAMING ALL DAY about it no one would listen SO I AM OUTING IT NOW AND I REFUSE TO OUT THE NATURE OF THE GUILTY

No, he's lying...

Why do you think I'm scum-aligned, Dwlee?

I want you to explain here because I'm having trouble working out your motives. It went from me being a good policy lynch to me being scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Oh my god
If it is a cop result or a tracker result or a follower result or any other result, Im not telling which one

It's impossible to have any, I am just VT...

[iraonavp]

Okay, we should lynch Comparing Realities, but if you lynch me instead lynch Dwlee.

He would try and hide behind WIFOM of "why would I fakeclaim cop as scum-aligned", don't let him escape.

[iraonavp]

If you still think I'm scum-aligned, why did you reveal that it was fake now?

[iraonavp]

If you still think I'm scum-aligned, why did you reveal that it was fake now?

maybe it has something to do with the fact that faking a guilty as town is a terrible idea

I feel like he only did that because he didn't want to get lynched tomorrow.

He still has given no substantiation as to why he thinks I am scum-aligned or how it progressed from policy lynch to scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

But why did you want to lynch me?

You have repeated dozens of times "lynch ira" but never why!

[iraonavp]

Okay, Dwlee is scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Elyse, how can you think that gerryoat is scum-aligned when he didn't know how traitor worked and one of the normal guidelines is that the mafia team should be informed of a traitor?

Gerryoat's frustration at being voted seems very genuine to me, as well.

VOTE: Dwlee

[iraonavp]

How?

It's almost impossible for Comparing Realities to bus me, considering how that might lead mafia to kill them...

You have still given literally zero reason or any other reads, most of your posts are just given up trying and spamming to lynch me!

[iraonavp]

Exactly what I mean...

[iraonavp]

This is town. BigYoshiFan has genuine paranoia, I would almost always trust someone who posts this, especially with ";-;".

like what?
This is your reason for townreading someone?
I am saddened that you townread a face ;-;

Yes, it is.

You can post the face too, but you are not really crying in real life, so you're scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

No, that's obviously not what I mean... You are pretending to be literal.

BigYoshiFan's post was genuine sadness, people who talk about how they feel in a game of mafia, if it sounds legitimate, are usually town-aligned unlike people who just post facts and it is difficult to tell.

[iraonavp]

...

do you see these ellipses. I swear this is scum ira. I'm not gonna bother with WIFOM associatives.

Okay, that doesn't make any sense...

If you said that my argument for BigYoshiFan being town-aligned was bad, how can you say this?

[iraonavp]

I think both of Zap and gerryoat are town-aligned.

We should lynch Dwlee, he doesn't really think I am scum-aligned and is making no attempt to sort anyone else...

[iraonavp]

You arent lynching me.

Why not?

[iraonavp]

You arent lynching me.

Why not?

I refuse to get lynched

This is scum.

He is trying to soft PR, just like what Rosske did worked somehow because y'all have problems...

[iraonavp]

So you are claiming VT?

If so, you are not so naïve as to expect to just be able to refuse to be lynched, are you going to just keep posting in the thread afterwards?

It's just posturing...

You still have no reason to fakeclaim a cop guilty on me other than quoting posts, and you are still tunneling me in the face of the fact that CR voting me makes me almost certainly town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Exactly...

[iraonavp]

You are not claiming anything, you are basically Donald Trump from being evasive and just giving nonsense answers...

Basically Dwlee99 has given up at this point and his last resort is to try and appear like apathy town-aligned. As we can see, however, he is not succeeding in this task...

[iraonavp]

I'm sure you have been lynched before, you can't just refuse... And if you wanted to stop yourself from being lynched you can't just keep spamming only "lynch ira"!

Therefore, I can only conclude that it is a false sense of resolve trying to appear town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Dw answer me this please: Why are you trying to lynch Ira when that was the ONLY person CR pushed on the whole game?

I've been reconsidering but I've tunneled partners the whole game before.

If we assume Ira was scum and this was the case and CR got Ira lynched wouldn't you think that makes CR the prime NK there leaving scum with only 1 mafia I doubt anyone with half a brain would risk that

Scum probably have some sort of way to detect the traitor like a cop. Even if they don't they could think "Why was CR

so

sure ira was scum. Not to mention that CR wasn't really even pushing ira iirc.

This is why you're scum-aligned, you don't think that this is a real argument...

[iraonavp]

Okay, this is my reads now:

Town-aligned: MariaR, gerryoat
Null-aligned: Nero Cain, Zap Rowsdower, Elyse, Wake88, BigYoshiFan
Scum-aligned: Dwlee99

And I don't know what is the gradient of null-aligned because I'm feeling out of the game... But I understand that Zap Rowsdower and BigYoshiFan are not very strong reads, which have faded over time.

Basically, what I will try to do is work out the best one to lynch out of that list of 5 people after we kill Dwlee today. MariaR and gerryoat are permanently excused from these proceedings.

It's more okay for NEROCAIN to fakeclaim because, you see, NEROCAIN just does this as a joke. Dwlee wants to lynch me, then people like Zap Rowsdower will say "why would he do that if he was scum-aligned?". Remember, Dwlee still has almost zero foundation for his scum-aligned read on me, the ratio of rhetoric : reasoning is like 999 : 1!

nero are you softing a guilty on me?

So you are hard claiming a guilty on me?
I just rechecked my role pm I'm not a miller lol

VOTE: nero

This is not a genuine response, though.

[iraonavp]

Okay, this is my reads now:

Town-aligned: MariaR, gerryoat
Null-aligned: Nero Cain, Zap Rowsdower, Elyse, Wake88, BigYoshiFan
Scum-aligned: Dwlee99

I'm glad you townread me and all, but can I ask why? You've townread me for pretty much this whole game. And even though I hard defended traitor, you haven't waivered your read on me. Can you give me a reason why? (as to why the original tr and the reason you still do)

I thought at first you were town-aligned because you posted in a free, train-of-thought way, not filtering anything.

That was solidified following genuine emotional reaction when arguing with MariaR, and misunderstanding the traitor role. This is the most important part because you haven't played many games on this site so you don't know how the role works. I think if you were scum-aligned, you wouldn't consider faking something like that..

[iraonavp]

Godfathers are blacklisted in mini normals
but this game is weird normally fake guilties arent very prevelant
@Irao Friendly Advice: If people are going to call you confirmed town (let's assume you are town) it is best to not decide to town beard tf out of the thread.

I don't understand why you would bother saying this if you actually thought I was scum-aligned...

It's like, okay you put the disclaimer there but why did you even say it in the first place!

What does that even mean, anyway?

[iraonavp]

Satisfactory.

[iraonavp]

But I cant even give a reads list Im comfortable with because Ive been confused this entire game not being sure who tf is town with shit play or scum while also needing to somehow sort stronger players as they are hard tunnelling me. Like fuck I wanted to reread but I dont have proper time now to do so.

Okay, probably he doesn't want to give us any idea to his partners if he says this.

I don't trust him to tell the truth, he's probably still scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Okay, let's lynch NEROCAIN then...

VOTE: Nero Cain

[iraonavp]

What?

Do you think NEROCAIN is town-aligned?

I actually thought that you were interacting suspiciously with him while I was reading through, like you were trying to avoid lynching him.

[iraonavp]

It's almost 50% chance that NEROCAIN is scum-aligned, and I still strongly think that gerryoat is town-aligned, more that MariaR even...

[iraonavp]

how is it 50%?

Process of elimination.

The way that NEROCAIN and MariaR are accusing gerryoat together and implicitly having no distrust of eachother is very suspicious.

[iraonavp]

gerryoat still looks very town-aligned, and Zap Rowsdower is confirmed as town-aligned.

I think NEROCAIN and MariaR are scum-aligned.

Yes, that's what I think...

[iraonavp]

and when I flip town who is scum?

NEROCAIN, and NEROCAIN.

[iraonavp]

Basically, what happened is that Elyse getting two innocents meant that we have a very high chance of victory. The only thing that the scum-aligned players can do now is push mislynches very hard and hope they can make each other look town-aligned, at the risk of blatantly associating themselves. Which is what NEROCAIN and MariaR are doing!

[iraonavp]

Also,they are trying to cast doubt on the clears. If they cannot lynch me, MichelSableheart, or Zap Rowsdower, they have to lynch gerryoat and BigYoshiFan consecutively like they are trying to do!

[iraonavp]

Ira you are dumb as fuck. Town doesn't even deserve this. I'm the town non consecutive jailkeeper. I think my action could be p useful tonight but just go ahead and lynch me. Lynch Gerry and BYF after I flip.

Okay, you're that only scum-aligned then. Such a role cannot exist...

[iraonavp]

Ira what would your lynch order be?

NEROCAIN, then one of BigYoshiFan or MariaR (not sure currently, probably MariaR I just need to see BigYoshiFan show more town-aligned), then you.

[iraonavp]

JOAT/Weak Doctor/Jailkeeper doesnt make much sense.

I'd ask why but you know you are just scum parroting everything that Ira says.

I mean, if I have to take a mislynch so you morons will actually lynch scum then so be it. Just lynch Gerry and BYF when I flip.

It's impossible, even the JOAT has a bodyguard!

[iraonavp]

Okay, we are lynching NEROCAIN and MariaR. They are obviously scum-aligned... No kill gambit is NEROCAIN's last resort.

VOTE: NEROCAIN

[iraonavp]

If you look back at the last day, it's really obvious that MariaR and NEROCAIN are teamed together trying to mislynch gerryoat and BigYoshiFan... There is no suspicion of each other, and they literally tried to quickhammer BigYoshiFan!

This is their last resort, they have no other option because of so many players confirmed as town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Ira, why don't you care about night actions? Aren't you curious why there wasn't a night kill?

Yeah, I know it's clearly because NEROCAIN and MariaR elected to no kill.

We are at MyLo now, it's not like they caused us to gain a mislynch...

It's even more impossible for NEROCAIN to be jailkeeper now!

[iraonavp]

Notice how MariaR is blaming me for losing when I'm not even voting her!

There is no suspicion of NEROCAIN, blatantly just trying to appeal to emotion in defense of her partner...

[iraonavp]

No, NEROCAIN is scum-aligned!

[iraonavp]

Zap Rowsdower, you should vote NEROCAIN. I want this day to go as fast as possible for security, to prevent NEROCAIN and MariaR from appealing to emotion and then people become unsure.

[iraonavp]

It's funny because you aren't town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Ira who do you think is the team?

I already said... NEROCAIN and MariaR.

[iraonavp]

It's funny because you aren't town-aligned.

Why. Do. You. Scum. Read. ME

Because you're teamed with NEROCAIN.

[iraonavp]

Yes, you are a team because you voted together.

[iraonavp]

Yes, you are a team because you voted together.

Because mafia buddy so hard like that right?

Yes, that is the WIFOM that you are attempting to hide behind.

Town-aligned players to not act as if other players are confirmed as town-aligned to them for no reason.

[iraonavp]

[iraonavp]

I have read the entire thread 6 times during the night phase and I am sure beyond comprehension that NEROCAIN and MariaR are scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

It's impossible for there to be a jailkeeper with a commuter, doctor, and bodyguard...

[iraonavp]

It's impossible for there to be a jailkeeper with a commuter, doctor, and bodyguard...

???who claimed Bodyguard?

Rosske had a bodyguard ability.

[iraonavp]

lol @ Gerry and Ira not being able to explain why I'd no kill and why Maria would think she'd have

ANY

chance in a lylo with gerry/ira/conf town or gerry/two conf town

You didn't have a choice.

MariaR doesn't have much of a chance, that's why you're trying so hard to mislynch Zap Rowsdower and gerryoat...

[iraonavp]

@Ira I was on the north end of null after leading town to a scum lynch and you and BYF on the south end. Why did he suddenly become townier to you?

What?

[iraonavp]

Town-aligned: MariaR, gerryoat
Null-aligned:

Nero Cain

, Zap Rowsdower, Elyse, Wake88,

BigYoshiFan

Scum-aligned: Dwlee99

the way it looks, you had me as a higher town read than BYF yet you wanted to vote me over BYF...why?

What?

No, I didn't. The only reason I was not lynching you on day 3 was because you were also trying to lynch Dwlee.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, and I don't particularly care.

[iraonavp]

All of those players are on the same level and the order doesn't matter.

[iraonavp]

Because while this was true, there were power roles which you prioritized killing.

[iraonavp]

We should lynch NEROCAIN today, just wasting time...

[iraonavp]

is there a mentoring program I can sign Ira up for Y/N?

I am, indeed, comfortable in my competence.