Mini 1450: Hillbilly Hunt Mafia (Game Over)

[Mr_Ree]

VOTE: Jebus

Town doesn't self vote.

[Mr_Ree]

Then again, Cooldog's self portrait looks an awful lot like a hillbilly....

[Mr_Ree]

Thanks for posting (I was getting bored)

You could be right but wouldn't that be a common conclusion? Sound like a hillbilly so people will think "hey, he must be town because scum wouldn't deliberately out themselves".

[Mr_Ree]

+1 townpoints

I'd rather let RVS continue for a while as it helps to show player associations, but it was starting to stagnate.

You have to take experience into account too. Cooldog isn't new to the game. While you are correct that it is more likely to come from town, it is equally likely to come from an experienced scum player looking for some quick towncred. A gambit (a very low risk, high reward gambit). The kind of Gambit generally made by scum.

Mind you, that's just speculation. Jebus still has to answer for his self vote before my vote moves anywhere.

[Mr_Ree]

I have no idea what to do with this ^.

[Mr_Ree]

Not overly. It's not something I'd lynch for on it's own either.

At the moment, he is just the best vote.

[Mr_Ree]

Vote: Jebus

Speed wagon is go.
Slight scum on Mr. Ree, would be willing to lynch.
Town on Dry fit.

I missed you too Thor.

If this is anything like our last game, we should win this by day 3.

[Mr_Ree]

Hi Ree~~

Can I trust you this game?

I find nothing wrong with Jebus's self vote, I'm hesitant to believe that he would do such a thing as mafia especially since I seen the self-vote more from town then mafia

-Mara

Why does everyone keep asking me that?

Of course you can trust me, I'm the town gynecologist....or was it psychologist... day vig maybe? I should really check my role PM again...

In regards to the self vote, I have to agree with Thor's post. It's not that it was alignment indicative, it's just bad form. For either side it goes against their wincon.

It does make a great discussion topic though, which was why I turned the topic from talking like a hillbilly alignment speculation back to something which is sure to have multiple viewpoints. Makes a better debate.

Just out of curiosity, how did I go from "insane skills" to your day 1 vote? Worried I'll catch you?

______________________________

Please don't remind me of those sites. I got my
start at mangastream and ended up joining bleachtactics when they started running Mafia games. I'm so glad both sites got modkilled and I found Mafiascum.

[Mr_Ree]

Not to worry, Ms M.

My personal goal this game is to lynch at least 1 scum by night 2.

I'm finding Mr. Obvious to be something of a novelty. Just the bare facts. Town or scum, if that's how he plays the game, his alignment will be as obvious as his name soon enough. It doesn't leave room for subterfuge. Double check his info that he uses and check if it's skewed. See if he omits key points. That should give you some readability as the day passes

I'll be up to my old tricks soon enough and you're sure to recognize my play. I need this win to boost my win ratio back up after last game. As far as the vote goes, fair enough. I'm kinda curious to see who else takes the bait.

BTW, I can't read hydras. Please sign your posts so I can treat you both as separate entities. You've been doing a decent job of that so far, keep it up.

What do you make of Mr Obvious' read on Thor? Do you think the bare facts should have lead to his conclusion that Thor is the scummiest player? It was a pretty bold statement, especially this early.

@Mr. Obvious: how did you arrive at the conclusion that Thor has been the scummiest player and not vote for him?

[Mr_Ree]

@timewarp: read the game and you might just find them yourself.

@cooldog: that's my typical response to Ms. M's question. You can reference our last game together, Slenderman, for proof that it doesn't indicate alignment. I assure you I have read my role PM. I'm just not going to claim my role at this time.

Appreciate the misrep though.

[Mr_Ree]

Spoiler: Slenderman

Of course I'm town. I'm the high priest of Cthulu.... or was it day vig... doctor maybe? Didn't read my role very well.

I think you may be on to something. What does it look like to you?

Figured I'd be nice and save you the time. I was a town hider if that helps at all.

Your original vote on me was justified enough as an OMGUS vote. I did cast suspicion on your slot
to see who ran with it. I'm not sure I buy your last post though. Seems like a reach. Was that truly what you believed?

[Mr_Ree]

So...like what kinda stuff?

Couldn't resist...

You know me so well Thor. I didn't even have to say why. I have been trying to wean myself off it, but I can't mess with perfection. Little bit early, but I'll give it a shot. As Mara said, let's see where this takes us.

Since you abandoned the Jebas wagon, it's time to motivate someone new.

Unvote, Vote Timewarp

What's worse than not posting at all? Apparently the answer is this

P-edit: still no vote Mr. Obvious? The thing about novelties is they tend to lose my interest at about the same time they start looking suspicious.

[Mr_Ree]

Too many posts for a phone. Hang on a sec, I'll head to my folks for a laptop.

I'm going to answer people on a person by person basis. I will try to avoid a huge wall but no promises, there's a lot to cover.

[Mr_Ree]

I'll start with Cooldog

ree's last post is really awkward. He seems like he is trying to gain town points by saying that he hasn't checked his role pm and thus can't be operating off of scum motivation. Hmmm... I like my vote now.

I take this to mean you didn't like your vote before. The analysis is faulty as was pointed out. I didn't say I didn't read my role PM and it was a far jump to assume that.

This is a blatent Misrep

which is why I answered it by explaining why it was a misrep.

@cooldog: that's my typical response to Ms. M's question.

You can reference our last game together,

Slenderman, for proof that it doesn't indicate alignment. I assure you I have read my role PM. I'm just not going to claim my role at this time. Appreciate the misrep though.

yeah, your meta argument is stupid. The reason it is stupid is because you basically admit here that you are playing specifically towards your meta. This is why self-meta is fucking pointless and I'm happy with my vote.

This is GOLD! You say my arguement is stupid, because it completely contradicts yours. All I was saying is that I used the exact same response before when asked a similar pointless question.

The question goes nowhere, the answer goes nowhere, yet you try to fashion it into a tell using a misrep. Let's disect this post a little, shall we.

"Yeah, your meta arguement is stupid" - translation: screw you for making me look bad by calling me on my misrep.

"The reason it is stupid is because you basically admit here that you are playing specifically towards your meta" Translation: you just admitted that you have done the exact same thing before and it had no bearing on your alignment which makes my analysis of it look bad.

"This is why self meta is fucking pointless and I'm happy with my vote" Translation: I have nothing else to call you on so I'm just going to keep pushing this crap meta angle and hope someone buys it.

Seems like he's spending more time trying to make himself look town rather than scum-hunt.

I agree with this. ree has so far only been on the defensive. He has yet to go on the attack, which is the main goal of the town.

I have been on the attack, I've just been building my reads and biding my time.

I believe I've taken several jabs at you. I've stated that Mr. Obvious has been becoming increasingly suspicious, I voted Timewarp for his ridiculous post that he never followed up on.

Of course, I don't believe that the main goal of town is to constantly be on the attack. The main goal of town is to build reads on all the players in an attempt to find scum. To that effect, I've given dry-fit town points and attempted to get some serious responses out of Jebus, while building reads on several other players.

Are you trying to tell me that townhunting does not give the same quality of reads or PoE that scumhunting gives? Are you telling me that a balanced approach to both does not net scum? You have to be out of your mind.

my replies are always out of focus.

I have news for you, so is your scumhunting. Your views are to narrow to see the bigger picture.

Now, speaking of meta, well done ignoring the back and forth between dry fit and myself regarding our views on "acting like a hillbilly" by giving your location. It completely ignores the spirit of what we were saying. I have news for you, with the advent of shows like Duck Dynasty and Swamp People, everyone can now be fluent in redneck. I haven't seen anyone else pull the "act like a hillbilly act", why do you feel that you have to. You do realize town is hunting hillbillies this game right? How would you react if i was in a game with you hunting mafia and I started talking like a 1930's gangster? Would that make me seem more town or more scum to you?

Shorry Sham, you killed my brother, shee...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next up is Thor:

So...like what kinda stuff?

Couldn't resist...

You know me so well Thor. I didn't even have to say why. I have been trying to wean myself off it, but I can't mess with perfection. Little bit early, but I'll give it a shot. As Mara said, let's see where this takes us.

Since you abandoned the Jebas wagon, it's time to motivate someone new.

Are you seriously trying to claim you did something I would find scummy in order to pull me off a wagon you thought was me being unmotivated?
And then...that's it?

You're at L-2 now.
Still waiting.

Ummmmm.

He isn't voting gak.

...this is true

So do you then agree he looks scummy?

Wait.... what? I did nothing to intentially draw your vote. Did I do something you found scummy? I thought you joined my wagon to aid me with my scumhunting tactics, hence the "for 'scumhuntin' purposes'". I know you know that is [was] a favorite tactic of mine to help me find scum. That's why I said you know me so well. I said I didn't even have to say why I was letting my wagon build because you included my reasoning "for scumhunting purposes".

I said I wanted to motivate someone new after you left the Jebus wagon. I felt he should have been sufficiently motivated but still wasn't posting. No point in beating a dead horse, so I moved on. I didn't say you were unmotivated.

I think I'm most confused by this post because you said "He isn't voting gak." I took that to mean that you weren't voting shit(my klingon is rusty I think that's what gak refers to), that your vote wasn't backed by suspicion. A placeholder vote, so to speak.

It still looks that way to me, that you are saying that Mr. Obvious looks suspicious for joining you on a vote that was meant to be a placeholder. Yeah, I can agree that looks scummy. Seems like an attempt to mimic your vote to get you off his back.

Oh, I almost forgot, Ree wanted to see who would vote him next, for 'scumhuntin' purposes'

Unvote: Jebus
Vote: Mr_Ree

Proceed.

Working on it...

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Mr. Obvious

When I read your first non rvs post, I was like "no, he can't seriously play with just bare bones information and no analysis". Turns out I was right. I did find that a novel concept though. Like a self imposed post restriction. Computer style beep boop.

Now that you've been posting a few times and I can see I was wrong with my initial judgement, I have to go back and take another look at those earlier posts.

You could be right but wouldn't that be a common conclusion? Sound like a hillbilly so people will think "hey, he must be town because scum wouldn't deliberately out themselves".

Yeah but I still think town is more likely to actually do it.

I don't buy this. People speak in the vernacular of the region where they grew up involuntarily. Null, imo.

-------

Clearly that means I'm a jester.

Is this some kind of ploy to gain a jester free pass?

The top part of this bugs me and I don't know why. My answer to dry fit was my way of saying don't discount the fact that he could be scum based off something that could be read from two different angles. I was giving him a different way to look at it. I honestly have no idea if he is scum but I do know I haven't been too fond of his posts thus far.

"People speak in the vernacular of the region where they grew up involuntarily" Do you really believe this? That everyone from Kentucky talks like a hillbilly and that he should be given a free pass for talking and acting like one? I watch Swamp People and Duck Dynasty from time to time. I can speak redneck too. If I start talking like a redneck, are you willing to give me a free pass because of the shows I watch?

Oh and did you really think he was claiming Jester?

Is that why you're voting him?

Who knows why I do anything?

Answering a question with a question is avoidance. Following that up with another question is an attempt to move attention away from the original question. The answer to the original question would be nice of you to share, if you aren't powerless to do so.

Why aren't you voting him?

Being a funny man isn't vote worthy.

You've been scummier than Jebus, up to this point. What I've interpreted as scummy in your play could just as well be misguided bravado, so I don't think you are vote worthy yet either.

I do, however, think the rvs time has passed, so...

UNVOTE: CoolDog

I forgot why i quoted this....

wait... yes, I remember, the contradiction. You thought that Thor was avoiding your pointless question with a rhetorical question? I think you showed that the answer had no follow up intention to it. You stated that was avoidance.

Do you not see how Jebus used humor as an avoidance?

The way you were defending CoolDog, the person you were voting, did not match up with the vote on him. Do you think that that vote served to pressure him at all? You later say that vote was based on humor. What's the point in making a vote that serves no purpose? I realize that it was made in RVS. That doesn't make it any less real. RVS votes can still turn into a lynch if there are enough of them.

The original question is silly and was going nowhere fast, and you're now trying to act like you would have taken it somehwere.
Okay - let's play that game.

My answer is - no.

Dazzle me.

It wasn't silly. I was wondering if you had a reason other than the jester factor for voting Jebus.

Being a funny man isn't vote worthy.

Why do you find his joking non-alignment conducive? You could see scum motivation behind avoidance of a question...isn't humor avoidance of another sort?
Why do you draw the distinction?

In the first few pages of any mafia game, I expect ridiculous and humorous things to happen. It has been my experience that the intent of such occurrences during the very early parts of the game is humor, not avoidance. I draw the line at considering humor alone to be a lynchable offense, especially on page 2 of a game.

So...why did you ever vote CoolDog if it was utterly meaningless?

It was humor.

--------

What do you make of Mr Obvious' read on Thor? Do you think the bare facts should have lead to his conclusion that Thor is the scummiest player? It was a pretty bold statement, especially this early.

@Mr. Obvious: how did you arrive at the conclusion that Thor has been the scummiest player and not vote for him?

I never said he was the scummiest, I said he was scummier than Jebus.

Who do you think is scummiest?

Mr_Ree.

So far, Mr Ree's post 63 has the most potential scum motive of any other post in the game. It strikes me as, "See, I did this before and I was town so I must be town in this game since I've done it again. I went out of my way to show you I've done this as town before in case no one else did."

In addition to his attempt at playing the free pass card, I'm not really fond of how he twisted my words to change the context of what I had said in regards to Thor being the scummiest.

My personal goal this game is to lynch at least 1 scum by night 2.

I don't see this as being a statement that would come from a townie.

VOTE: Mr_ree

Bwahaha Thor addressed many of the same points I just did.

I apologize for misinterpreting your words. I saw jebus as scummiest, you said Thor was scummier so I interpreted that and your little rant at Thor to mean that you thought Thor was the scummiest. whoops.

Of course, when ffery asked who was scummiest if it wasn't Thor, you replied. "uuuuuuuummmmmmmm...... I dunno...maybe this guy?"

You'll excuse me if I don't think you put in a lot of effort to come to that conclusion. In fact, instead of coming up with something original, you just rehash other people's arguements that I had already killed.

"post 63 has the most potential scum motive of any other post in the game. It strikes me as, "See, I did this before and I was town so I must be town in this game since I've done it again. I went out of my way to show you I've done this as town before in case no one else did. In addition to his attempt at playing the free pass card"

When did I say that it indicated my alignment was town? I said it was, and I quote "non indicative of alignment". That means it doesn't indicate my alignment. It was a response to CoolDog saying that it did.

See CoolDog made a post that made it sound like that post could only come from scum. I gave him proof that it could also come from town me. Answering a similar question the same way in multiple games where that question has NO bearing on anything is not a tell of any kind. It shows a pattern, yes. It does not give any conclusions about alignment. It is not something I would only say as scum. It is not something I would only say as town. It's one of those responses you don't even think about.

Hi, how are you?

I'm good, thanks. How are you

Free pass card..... really? You think I thought that would give me a free pass? You think I thought anything of it at the time? Can you honestly tell me that you think I specifically crafted that response thinking it would give me town cred?

Yes, my personal goal is to lynch scum. Do you have a problem with that? Do you not think that should be my goal? Is it not a reasonable goal? Does the rest of town not have the same goal? Do you not have the same goal?

If I fail at that goal, I give you permission to lynch me. Start of day 3, if we haven't lynched at least one, vote me.

My win ratio just took a beating. I'm down from 80% to 72%. I don't want to lose another game. I'm going to reach it. Then I'm going to set another, then another after that. I'm tenatious and cocky and I have the skills to back it up.

Don't you dare tell me town wouldn't have the same goal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll get to the rest tomorrow. (sorry about the length, I got carried away in a few places )

[Mr_Ree]

If I fail at that goal, I give you permission to lynch me. Start of day 3, if we haven't lynched at least one, vote me.

The hell is this?

I've never seen scum do that kind of thing thus far...

The last time I saw a player self-vote in his first post he was scum. It's null as far as I'm concerned.

I don't like ThAdmiral's content so far. None of it seems related to trying to catch scum.

Unvote. Vote: ThAdmiral.

Sam could be said for fferylt actually, but I kinda expect more from ThAd.

Basically what Marapim said. Burden of proficiency. If you think I'm not trying to actively find scum by that point, you are welcome to call me on it. I have a feeling it won't come to that.

[Mr_Ree]

I actually like that post. It addressed just about everything.

I got bored waiting for someone else to post so I posted that 3 hours later (if I remember correctly ) basically as a preemptive response so Cooldog didn't say he wasn't about to read through hundreds of posts looking for it.

You are correct though, I wouldn't have posted the example if it came from scum me, that would have only strengthened Cooldog's argument instead of proving it false. Then again, I doubt I would have said it as scum in the first place.

Do you feel the votes on you are justified? Are the reasons given valid from an outside point of view? Why/why not?

[Mr_Ree]

yeah, I'm going to respond to ree when I have more time. btw, it isn't a misrep if you actually said you had to check your role pm. And your meta argument is still fucking pitiful.

Again. I said I should really check my role PM

again

There's a difference. You were trying to say I didn't check it at all and thus didn't know my role or alignment. That's a misrep.

Why do you think it was pitiful? It perfectly blew away your argument that it could only be done by scum. Was there a better way to do that?

[Mr_Ree]

Intermittent access over the next few days. May be on but I guarantee nothing.

VLA until Wednesday

[Mr_Ree]

EBWOP

@PeregrineV: please prod Timewarp

[Mr_Ree]

I did say I needed this win.... didn't I?

Leaves an out for appearing town after supporting a Day 1 mislynch wagon? Explain how it does this. Would you try that as scum?

When questioned about reasons for being on the mislynch wagon at the start of day 2:

I know I voted him but I was just trying to lynch scum by night 2... you know, like I said I was going to do...

How many pro-town perspectives do you see?

[Mr_Ree]

Have you read the game yet?

no

@timewarp: read the game and you might just find them yourself.

Is my vote not good enough to help town?

@ Timewarp: So are you always this obvtown?

yes

Ree looks like scum. He's trying to get a noob lynched.

Is this a Carreyhammer alt?

Please replace out. You should join the newbie queue for your first game in order to get a feel for this site.

Do you have any intention of reading the game or are you just checking the thread to see if people voted you?

I just skimmed through Cooldog's post. Are you using a Meta argument to say that you always vote people who use Meta arguments because you think Meta is only used by scum?

Really?

I'll reply in full to the post later today.

[Mr_Ree]

@ Timewarp: how could your vote help anyone if you aren't voting anyone?

I read newbies pretty well. Newbie scum is still scum and deserves to be lynched.

In you 2 posts you have indicated
1. You want to coast and let others play for you.
2. You haven't yet read the 5 pages, therefore:
3. You are skimming through simply looking for votes on you

I'm not seeing the town motivation here.

[Mr_Ree]

Are you setting a trap for me? How cute.

[Mr_Ree]

I'll bite. I was trying to say it was null. Did you not see that? It's in the same post.

My answers, no, no and no

Nice misrepresent.

[Mr_Ree]

Re: post 55: where in there does it say I didn't read or know my role? I had to confirm it didn't I? How does that post give me towncred?

Wait wait wait. Why not use the actual questions?

X. Marapim asked if she could trust me.
Y. I answered of course you can (I assume the next part is Z )
Z. I'm the (insert multiple roles so nobody thinks I'm claiming)

You said only scum would do that.
I said it doesn't indicate I'm of either alignment, here's proof (insert proof)

Then you said that only scum would provide self Meta. Then you provided two examples of self Meta. 2 examples.

You gave one to say that you are pressing Meta arguments because you always press Meta arguments as town. "Because the only purpose Meta serves is to let scum hide behind a mystical 'town meta' and avoid getting lynched

/facepalm. I always press Meta arguments as town...

You gave the next to say you suck as Mafia? No, wait, to say that any scummy action can be explained by Meta. Any scummy action?

The difference between what I did and what you just did is that your metaisms were given arbitrarily and work completely against you and mine simply proved you wrong.

Your argument is basically: Self Meta(the worst kind) is used exclusively by scum as a way to shut down scum hunting by confirming scummy actions as somehow being town. You go on to say that you believe in this tell and you always press Meta arguments as town.

You used

Meta

to say that you always press Meta as town. Then used

Meta

to say that you use Meta as scum.

Scum caught?

Further in the post you reply to townhunting. You are talking about townhunting exclusively. That's just ass backwards. Who does that? What did I say? A balanced approach. Town and scumhunting.

You must always be on the attack if you want to win the game? Do you think I'm new?

The key to winning is building strong reads. That can be accomplished in a myriad of different ways. It also means talking to all the players.
Ehem. Hint hint. Noticed you've been tunnelling pretty heavy. Did I make it personal?

Defense is scummy? So town should just let themselves get lynched because that's the townie thing to do? Are you not defending yourself now? Does that make you scum?

"Also, I don't really care about that. If I get lynched over 'talking like a hillbilly ' in a hillbilly game, that is not a game I'd like to be in"

AtE. Don't worry, that's not why anyone is going to vote you. They are going to vote you because you said that doing something is scummy, then proceeded to do it. Then you said that doing something else was scummy and proceeded to do that as well.

Unvote, vote Cooldog

See?

The joke I can accept. I took it as much.

[Mr_Ree]

I'll bite. I was trying to say it was null. Did you not see that? It's in the same post.

My answers, no, no and no

Nice misrepresent.

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you aren't trying to prove you are town, eh? You defense is just a load of hogwash. get over it and get yo ass lycnhed plox.

So again you seem to indicate defending yourself is scummy. Oh wait, except when you do it....riiiiiiiiiiiggggghhhtt.....

[Mr_Ree]

I'm glad that we're back in RVS.

Why not do something about it then?

Like what?
Be out of the RVS and have a serious vote and discussions on hand?
I do.
Mock the people dragging themselves back into RVS?
I did.

What is your issue here?

I'm glad that we're back in RVS.

so does that means you won't put any effort into scum hunting? Come on, 5 pages and nothing thor?

Whut?

People who hate meta have a weird concept of what meta is.

Timewarp is like a miniMe, I want to keep him.
He looks town in any case, so...

@ThAd - I have self meta of never lying about my self meta...

@ Timewarp: how could your vote help anyone if you aren't voting anyone?

I read newbies pretty well. Newbie scum is still scum and deserves to be lynched.

In you 2 posts you have indicated
1. You want to coast and let others play for you.
2. You haven't yet read the 5 pages, therefore:
3. You are skimming through simply looking for votes on you

I'm not seeing the town motivation here.

Timewarp looks town???

[Mr_Ree]

@Marapim: Haven't really taken a solid look at Fitz or no point yet. I need more content from both. Cooldog is certainly a candidate. I can bet there's at least one on me. Chances are they'd be the one pushing it along but since everyone is using the worst reasons they can possibly manufacture, it's hard to separate the sheep from the wolves.

Cooldog's contradictions are a good place to start.

[Mr_Ree]

@ree, this prolong discussions gets the game nowhere. Suffice to say I think you are scum hiding behind meta, and you hate my guts and omgus me. anyway.

Please explain how I'm hiding behind meta.
I don't hate you. I just think you are scumtastic. (I mean, I didn't hate you until I went to your DA website to try to get a better read on you and saw how much you talk about child porn in the comments. Obsessive much?)

As far as OMGUS goes, I have a enough reasons to think you are scum. I don't need to vote you simply for voting me. I'll make a case if you'd like but I'm pretty sure I've noted every scummy thing you've done

I think Dog should stop talking, he gets scummier and scummier with each post. will talk to Pim about moving the vote again
~Mara

He's been digging his grave. Let him continue.

1> My argument was that Ree spent more time making himself look town (to no specific accusation), not defending himself. And you should best explain before throwing out those buzzwords. It makes me think you haven't really thought about it much.

2> So people can't find their RVS vote scummy after the RVS?

Ree looks like scum. He's trying to get a noob lynched.

Which noob and how?

I'll bite. I was trying to say it was null. Did you not see that? It's in the same post.
My answers, no, no and no
Nice misrepresent.

If it's null, why brought it up?

I thought I was defending myself against specific accusations... Can you point out examples?
Which Noob? Timewarp is saying he is the noob.
If it's null, why bring it up? Thank you! That's what I've been trying to say. Try telling that to Cooldog!
I think you should probably reread bud. It sounds like you missed a few things along the way.

because mara is ree's buddy... that is a possible explanation. Although it is a touch too early to start talking about buddys and fulls scum teams.

Do you....actually WIN any games on this site? I take it you think everyone voting or suspecting you must be scum? Do you think it's because you used Meta to say that what you are doing makes you town?

Hey, it's your tell, not mine...

[Mr_Ree]

Not too sure about nopoint. I think he's a sheep but I'll ammend my position once I can be sure he's actually reading.

Most of his questions should have had obvious answers. The grammatical error suggests youth or english as a second language, as does the buzzwords comment. I think he may just be having trouble following.

Am I wrong Nopoint?

Oh yeah..... Cancel the VLA. Plans changed.

[Mr_Ree]

Do you want a summary?

What we are talking about now is you using a scumtell that you have made a point in saying you believe in.

[Mr_Ree]

@Fitz these are my only two scumgames. I almost missed your question hidden in the spoiler.

Newbie 1303 a vantage point
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24010

The Inbetweeners
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23830

I've only started using that response recently. People have only been asking if they can trust me recently. I did claim serial killer at the start of day 1 in 20th century philosophy Mafia. They lynched me day 1 . I was not impressed. Scum won. I blame MoI.

I started using it after MattP and BBmolla started throwing out
random claims in Karma Mafia.

Slenderman was my most recent game for Meta purposes. I only play one game at a time so I can focus on everything and still have time for meat world and all it's delights. You should try it.

Now, you never made it clear why you were voting me. All of your scumspects read to me as town...

Could you enlighten me as to why you suspect them all.

@Dryfit: Why do you expect more from Thad?

[Mr_Ree]

Ebwop: uh oh.....Meta...

This should be interesting ...

[Mr_Ree]

@Dry-fit, I've been in a game with him before too. Seems like he's working on something. I happen to agree with his vote and current stance.

Re: Marapim, the implication is that she was advising Cooldog in a partner capacity, correct?

@NPIAU: I did answer it, previously in the thread. It was partly out of boredom. I'm on holidays before I start the training for my new job (yay). It was more as a continuation of my previous post it in anticipation of Cooldog saying he wasn't about to go digging for it. Also served as a thread bump.

That's not my only point against Cooldog. Did you read my posts? I assure you, I have several. I just

really

want to see how he explains that one. He made such a big deal about it, then did it. Are you not curious about it as well?

Looks like I may have angered you slightly. I take great joy in being able to profile players. Don't take it personally that I could pick that out, it helps factor into my analysis of your reads and reactions.

Respect is earned. That's not saying that I won't be respectful. I just don't think you deserve respect simply because you've played more games. That's like saying I deserve your respect for being your elder. I've played quite a few off site as well. My win ratio off site is 90% on site is 72+%. Can you say the same? Please don't use the "I've played more games so I'm better than you" angle ever again. To anyone.

Regarding Ms M.'s post: I don't see anything wrong with it. Sounds about right to me. Is it scummy to defend someone you have a town read on? Please tell me what specifically you find wrong about it.

Is it because Ms, M, a person I've just played another game with, reads your scumread as town because she "recognized my play as town-Ree"?

[Mr_Ree]

Odd that you people would vote a player who is going VLA and is therefore unable to defend themself for the next 3 or 4 days. Not classy.

@npiau: is that what cocky sounds like to others? Ewwwww.

You may be capable of following but all of your questions already had answers in thread. That suggests you probably missed them.

I can make a case on Cooldog if you'd like. The majority of my posts directed at him accuse him of something. To satisfy my own curiosity regarding how well you have been following, can you list at least 3 of those reasons before I make my case?

[Mr_Ree]

I'm not sure actually. I guess it depends on how scummy I percieved them to be. They would have to seem pretty bad for me to vote them immediately after they went VLA.

It just feels opportunistic. Until they get back, it's nothing but a vote park. They can't answer for themselves, they can't defend. They feel no pressure until they return. If that is the intention, to have them return to a pressure wagon, go for it. If the intent is to lynch before they get back, which is why I worry about cases accompanied by votes, it looks like it's fueled by opportunity, which is scummy.

I had to point it out. That wagon grew fast.

Were you implying that Mara was advising cooldog in a partner capacity?

[Mr_Ree]

I could see how 3 people with town reads on each other who are willing to speak out for each other could be troubling for scum.

This is a thing of beauty, and it's all thanks to you cooldog. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We are simply uniting against a common threat. We each share a series of reads that match up and can be understood by each other, giving a great deal of transparency. Because of that transparency, we each feel confident in defending each other, especially if we don't agree with the reasoning behind the accusations.

[Mr_Ree]

I want more sexceptional things in my life.

^Me too. Sigh.... me too....

@Mara: dunno yet. He seems to be townish so far. I liked his page 1 post but I've been finding it hard to get a read on him recently. He needs to post more before I really make up my mind. I'd like a little bit more transparency in his thought process, hence my question.

@Fitz: please refer to my response to nopoint. I'd like to hear from him first. Why did you cross out your question to Thor?

Pe @ npiau: cool, you did see those. Do you have a strong town read on cooldog? I noticed the defense which would normally mean that you do. What gave you that read? Didn't you say something about confirmation bias?

@Thor...whut? You mean it wasn't a vote park? And what is this I don't even... overstating what?

[Mr_Ree]

Will write out the case when I'm not phoneposting

[Mr_Ree]

I wouldn't call myself a machine but I am trying. I only have reads on like 5 players right now due to lack of posting. I have like 3 town reads, 1 scum read and nopoint leaning on the scummy side of null.

I was a little surprised by that. You make it sound like I should have everything wrapped up already.

Perhaps it's my frequent posting that makes you think that.

[Mr_Ree]

Ah gotcha. I think I'm understanding you now. I will admit that I do come off as cocky from time to time. I like being right and when I think I am, I get a little cocky about it. It doesn't mean I have ALL the answers but even something small, like guessing npiau's age and that English probably isn't his first language, is enough to bring it out a little.

I do like my scumread on Cooldog though. If I really had to sum it up into three sentences,

I feel he's twisting people's words and trying to turn them into artificial scum tells and I'm still weary of the way Rob13 did the exact same thing as scum and how nobody else seemed to realize what he was doing. I think he used his own scumtell and that if it was something he truly believed in, he wouldn't have. Lastly, when I accused him of doing so, he put his tail between his legs and said nothing about it, seemingly in defense of his "defenses are scummy" or possibly because of what Mara said.

I'm getting a solid ping here which is super rare for me on day 1. At THIS point I feel pretty confident in it, of course, I'm still lacking reads on over half the playerbase.

[Mr_Ree]

To me it sounded like she already was pretty sure about him and his responses were just reinforcing the read. She/it had the vote down already and seemed fairly confident of his alignment when Mara said that.

[Mr_Ree]

I will also say that I am one of the players Marpim was referring to who enjoys a good challenge. I think I said that in our last game somewhere. It's also part of the reason I nominated Yates for an award after he won the game. He played us good and I tried damn hard to figure things out.

[Mr_Ree]

@Mod: prods please

[Mr_Ree]

I haven't been in the discussion threads in a while.

@Mara: could you link us to that tell you were working on. What was the popular consensus?

I stumbled on this little gem when I was checking her out towards the end of our last game. Wait for it... I like this one...

@TSO I don't think I NEEDED any help. I certainly didn't ask for it. I do appreciate it though and quite frankly, I don't see anything wrong with it. I often will defend a town read when I don't agree with the accusations that are driving the wagon. It's nice to see that sentiment spread to those I've played with. I feel it works in town's favor since scum has to try that much harder to get a mislynch.

[Mr_Ree]

I knew it was answered by your timewarp mini-me love answer. I was curious why he included it instead of just leaving it out. He answered that.

@All the people prod dodging: Please post or replace out.

[Mr_Ree]

You said good fruit. Fruit is a derogatory term for homosexual. That's an insult. Insults are scummy. Fake vote: Thor

Twisting words is fun. Can you not see how bad crap like this is?

Yeah, that's exaggerated but no different from what Cooldog has tried on Mara and I. No different from what you seem to be trying now. At least my case, which you still haven't acknowledged, is built on concrete evidence instead of pure speculation and twisted words. I can prove these are tells I believe in and show you where I used it to net scum.

When does twisting people's words help town find scum? No seriously, when? The only motivation behind it is to create a mislynch.

The ONLY motivation behind it is to create a mislynch.

Mind my NLP, but I feel like I have to bang that into some people's heads that THAT is the type of thing to watch for.

[Mr_Ree]

VLA May 25th/26th to May 28th for Birthday plans

@PeregrineV could I request a deadline extension and a replacement for Timewarp?

Can nobody see why the three of us are voting Cooldog?

@npiau. I don't believe a word of that. You think that twisting players words in an effort to get someone lynched ISN'T scummy? I'm not too surprised with the answer seeing how your voting patterns match up exactly with Cooldog's. The two of you both use horrible horrible arguments.

@Obvious: what are your thoughts on Cooldog?

I'd like to hear more from Fitz and Dry-fit. It looks like they were trying to figure things out.

[Mr_Ree]

@Obvious: So you agree that twisting people's words is scummy right? Isn't that the only thing Cooldog has done so far? Isn't that the basis of three separate player's cases?

Did he do that in your other game? Did he use Meta, even to say he always goes after people who use Meta? Did he use the tell that Mara has brought from the discussion forums ie. When someone asked for an update, did Cooldog tell them who to lynch?

A simple yes or no will suffice for those. I'll do the research.

Where I'm going with this is that if the answer is no, he's not really doing the same thing he did last game is he? If his. efforts were directed at you, would you find it scummy?

@Bacde: Did you read the game yet? What are your thoughts?

[Mr_Ree]

ArcAngel you seem way too defensive.

Defesive is town!! And I am good at that. You seem to be worried Love.

I know I said I wouldn't read your posts (sorry for gender confusion. In America we have a strong bias towards male pronouns so everything is a he..), but this is really a weird thing to say considering your case is about me BEING DEFENSIVE ABOUT DIEING. Just saying that you can't double dip. Either being defensive is scummy or it isn't. SO which is it?

[Mr_Ree]

Defense is scummy. Lol. That's where that came from...

Do you realize that in that game he never tried to twist anyone's words in order to get a lynch?
He took a completely different stance on defense.

This is NOT the same cooldog. Look at the iso's. I can actually read THAT Cooldog as town.

Why did you say that he's playing the same?

[Mr_Ree]

Too many vla's.

Request deadline extensions before you leave.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm not saying that we'll 100% need the extra time, but it would be nice to have it in case we do. No point in rushing a lynch just to make sure a no lynch doesn't occur. We may as well take some time and get it right.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm back. I'll read up and get a content post up later tonight.

I see AJ is in the game. Sweet.

[Mr_Ree]

Lots to cover, little time.

First off, AJ, that WAS epic. I agree with most of what you said. I totally feel good about your slot after those posts. I was almost starting to doubt myself. Thanks to Thad, Marapim and now you, I feel so much stronger about my reads. I feel like my reads were getting lost in my explanations. It was nice to see that someone was finally able to get the points across.

@Bacde: do you think that Cooldog and myself are both scum? I'm curious because you have yet to give any reasons to support your reads. Could you attempt to explain them?




@Obvious: Can you bring up specifics pointing to which of Cooldog's responses were right on the money? My scorecard looks a little bit different than yours. From my POV, it's pretty much a shutout. I'll quote you the specifics that we were talking about earlier. I'm still a little bit surprised you don't see the difference. You will. I'll get to that tomorrow hopefully. My days have gotten significantly busier.

At this point, I would be fine with a nopoint lynch. I honestly can't put myself in his POV. I can't see how he arrives at the conclusions he seems to arrive at. I'd much prefer to see a cooldog lynch but those are basically the only two that I'd be willing to bank on. I'll expand more on my nopoint read tomorrow.

[Mr_Ree]

@Cooldog: does it worry you at all knowing that nopoint is following you around in a similar manner?

I don't see anything wrong with Mara defending me. She started off voting me, took one look at your accusations and my reactions and took sides. They figured it out for themselves. Our votes aren't as "connected" as you seem to want people to believe.

Am I also connected to Thad and AJ who are also voting you and share similar views and reads?

When someone appears to be thinking along the same lines you are, it creates a feeling of transparency. Transparency is important for determining who is town and who is just trying to get a mislynch.

[Mr_Ree]

Because he claimed VT?

How does a sample Role PM and lack of flavor breadcrumbs (who does that?) convince you of anything?

[Mr_Ree]

/scratches head...

...you're serious?

[Mr_Ree]

2 things that you should probably know...

1. MOST mods in Coney Island will give scum fakeclaims. A fakeclaim normally will contain a fake role and flavor in case scum needs to claim.

2. Even if he was not given a safe claim, there is always a sample vanilla role at the start of every game.

Name claiming proves nothing either way.

[Mr_Ree]

Except for the meta argument, AJ does have sm point on Cooldog

I don't feel Obvious' argument about CoolDog's claim is proof of him being town.

Nevertheless, cooldog is still a bad lynch. Plenty of other scummy ppl around. Ree hasn't been doing anything except describing his feelings in recent posts.

That's strange. I didn't even realize. For some reason I thought I was commenting on the game and asking some questions that never got responses.

What is it you've been doing? [Sarcasm ] I guess I should just sheep you since you are apparently a
master investigator and have everything figured
out already. Here I am thinking that explaining my thought process in order to increase my transparency so people could read me better was good for town. [/sarcasm]

From where I sit, you're voting town and hard defending scum. You'll excuse me if I lump you in the same category as Cooldog, for bad calls. By
the way, I added in sarcasm tags just for you and
Cooldog. Just to be fair though, I'll bite, who are the three scummiest players after Cooldog, and why?

May as well lock in those responses now. If you say Mara Thad and I for voting Cooldog I'm gonna lol. You can't possibly KNOW that Cooldog is town unless you have a strong townread. Can you explain where that townread came from? Was it the series of misreps? If you can't explain the town read to a point where at least ONE player can follow your thought process, preferrably me because I do try hard to do that, I'll have to assume that you are incapable of doing so. Go.

@Cooldog: a misrepresent while you are at L-1? Yeah you took it back but you wouldn't have unless
you were called on it. Can you not see how people are having trouble seeing you as town?

[Mr_Ree]

EBWOP: BTW, first paragraph, also sarcasm.

[Mr_Ree]

EBWOTP: by three scummiest players after cooldog, I actually meant, besides Cooldog. As in, who are the "plenty of other scummy people"? And why?

Also, to say "I always go after Meta" IS Meta. Everytime you say it, you are using Meta. That's two different and conflicting beliefs, making it one of the most hypocritical statements to say. You did take a different stance on it in your town games. There, you say "Meta is bullshit". In this game, your stance is "Meta is scummy" Subtle difference but as town, you appear to discount Meta, here you pursue it.

When did you come to the conclusion that Meta is scummy? I also can't see where you arrived at the conclusion "defense is scummy" in your last game, you took a completely different stance, as I pointed out in an earlier quote.

Meta can be a useful tool for scumhunting purposes. I wouldn't be so quick to discount it in later games.

[Mr_Ree]

@Obvious: you are aware everyone is a sheriff right?

@Thor: is this because I'm black? Racist.

You havin't said much regarding Cooldog. What are your current thoughts? Was there anything in particular that bothered you about Nopoint? Why is Mara the one you would most like to see lynched?

[Mr_Ree]

Actually, you haven't given your opinions on much of anything...

Are you planning to?

[Mr_Ree]

Why do you think he's town? I don't see it. Of course I saw what you posted. I was hoping you'd expand on it. You didn't, I asked. People are willing to drop the hammer, and if they did, nobody would have known about that townread. Saves you from being accountable for your reads.

Yes I'd be willing to vote nopoint, he's been number 2 on my list for a while. I'm surprised you missed it. I think I only said it several times. I would rather lynch Cooldog. I'm pretty damn sure he's scum and I'm just waiting on the flip to confirm it.

Again, can you expand on those? Those answers are like an empty sandwich, all bread, no meat. If it's all gut, just say so.

You've given SOME opinions, you've listed very little in the way of reasoning. Because of it, your opinions carry less weight. I remember you having more umph last time we met.

Yeah I would be on that list. I'm pretty sure I've given my opinions on pretty much everything. Especially the situation at hand which you've pretty much avoided until now.

My concern is that you are avoiding accountability. Granted, there are many players doing the same.

You are one of the few players in this game that knows my old favorite technique. You brought it up earlier when you made reference to it. What you smell is the bait. I thought you got that.

[Mr_Ree]

Scumvantage? I'm just trying to pull out the reasons that are currently fueling your reads.

You've been saying I'm not doing enough. I have been slightly tunnelled on Cooldog but I have been checking several other players. You know I make my way through my wagon and check the reasoning behind the votes. Why did you think I would simply avoid looking at you? You aren't very high on my list but you have shown the patterns I'm looking for in scum.

My read of nopoint is independent of Cooldog but yes, I do think they are both scum. The possibility does drop slightly should Cooldog actually flip town but the read will remain, he's still going to move to my number 1 scum read regardless of what Cooldog flips. As far as what would have moved me to voting him, it would have either been the cooldog wagon stalling or falling apart. I'm more sure about Cooldog than I have ever been about any player day 1. Why would I pick a secondary read over someone I was sure would flip scum?

This is where I get confused regarding you. If Mara is the one you feel strongest about, why vote someone else? You didn't make a case or explain your reads on Mara, that's not the papa smurf I'm used to. I remember you as a heavy hitter that drives points home. While I disagree with Mara, I'm not opposed to hearing what others have to say about her. I have my blinders on for several players who've been defending me and voting with me. I may not agree with what you have to say but I would still like to hear what it is.

Weak attack? Yes. Baseless? No. I find I'm trying to understand your reads because they differ from mine.

Up untill I asked, you hadn't given a single opinion on the Cooldog situation. Without reasoning to show how you arrive at the conclusions of your opinions, how are we supposed to follow your line of thought? Again, it comes down to transparency.

You appear to be working off an outdated meta. No, I don't try to stay under the radar anymore. I'm more known for my Gambits now and they are anything but under the radar. I like getting compliments on my play. I never got those by just observing.

Oh, I noticed. It was an early post where you first mentioned it. You asked if I did something scummy in order to get people to vote me. I said no and asked if you saw something scummy. You never replied. What I did was make myself look like a strong player that scum had to be worried about. Sure enough, they took the bait.

[Mr_Ree]

Not too sure about nopoint. I think he's a sheep but I'll ammend my position once I can be sure he's actually reading.

Most of his questions should have had obvious answers. The grammatical error suggests youth or english as a second language, as does the buzzwords comment. I think he may just be having trouble following.

@npiau: is that what cocky sounds like to others? Ewwwww.

You may be capable of following but all of your questions already had answers in thread. That suggests you probably missed them.

@ npiau: cool, you did see those. Do you have a strong town read on cooldog? I noticed the defense which would normally mean that you do. What gave you that read? Didn't you say something about confirmation bias?

I wouldn't call myself a machine but I am trying. I only have reads on like 5 players right now due to lack of posting. I have like 3 town reads, 1 scum read and nopoint leaning on the scummy side of null.

@npiau. I don't believe a word of that. You think that twisting players words in an effort to get someone lynched ISN'T scummy? I'm not too surprised with the answer seeing how your voting patterns match up exactly with Cooldog's. The two of you both use horrible horrible arguments.

At this point, I would be fine with a nopoint lynch. I honestly can't put myself in his POV. I can't see how he arrives at the conclusions he seems to arrive at. I'd much prefer to see a cooldog lynch but those are basically the only two that I'd be willing to bank on. I'll expand more on my nopoint read tomorrow.

[Mr_Ree]

@Thor: Will try to get to the rest before the thread gets locked,

TSO? My read is townish. He's not very active but I do like the posts he has made. They sound good to me. I have no problem with the hammer. He gave intent and set a deadline. If you read through, you can see the progression of his reads. He focused mainly on Cooldog and myself and seemed to have made his decision based off Cooldog's latest misrep attempt on me. He may not be super active but I see no reason he should have to replace out. If you had a problem with him hammering, he gave you ample time to tell him not to. You could have said something then instead of using a weak attack. Perhaps your subtlety is not as obvious to every player as you may wish to believe.

[Mr_Ree]

Nopoint has to go today. Dude reeks of scum after yesterday.

Vote nopoint

[Mr_Ree]

What do YOU think of Mr Obvious?

Personally, I got the feeling he was just sheeping Cooldog due to a lack of his own reads. There was a point where I thought he could be town but I'd have to go back and figure out why I thought that. He should probably go if we start running into dead ends but I'm willing to let him live until after my stronger scum reads are gone.

Can anyone tell me what specifically they saw in Cooldog that made him look town? Include a quote please.

[Mr_Ree]

Fair enough, it was more directed at those who actively spoke out against his lynch.

P-edit: I guess I can understand that. The roleclaim did seem to influence your decision. Was it just his delivery that seemed similar?

From what I remember from my readthrough, he took a different stance on claiming, defense and Meta in that game.

[Mr_Ree]

Hold up a bit guys. Lynch is a go but let me figure out the next step before we proceed.

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah...

Not 100% sure on any of that though. At least these are two reads I can rely on. I'd like to at least hear from everyone before any kind of powerlynch scenario takes place.

What are your thoughts on Thor? If he's town, he's useful. The jury is still out on that though.

[Mr_Ree]

You were basing your town read of something said by someone else in RVS? You'll excuse me if I find that a load of BS.

Nopoint is probably scum, Mara is probably town. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. If you are seeing grand illusions of bussing, ask yourself why Mara would side with and defend the underdog instead of her own partner. To go even further, Why would scum hard bus their partner to lynch on day 1?

No, Mara, Thad and AJ are hard town. If it turns out you are counterwagoning against another scum player, I have no problem with you going next.

To go so hard against the grain... big mov

[Mr_Ree]

I agree with Fitz. As town, I refuse to be mislynched. In the rare instances it happens, I try my best to go down fighting, screaming the name of any scum voting me so that my reads go on to win the game, even if I can't.

Nopoint seems resigned to his fate. He's lost his will to fight. If we were wrong, he wouldn't be so defeated. How does one not stand up for themself when faced with injustice? How does one react when caught in a lie?

The lynch is good. I have an idea how to proceed either way but I'm banking on a scum flip. This could be a perfect game.

@Thor: RVS reads are fine, what I find hard to believe is that you based your read off something from page 1 and didn't utilize really any information from the 17 pages that followed it.

I'll look into that point on Mara... tbh, it didn't stand out as much as her vote and stance.

The continuation of that post was: big move, not something I'd expect from scum. Your play is balanced. It's hard for me to get a solid read either way. I dislike that feeling.

[Mr_Ree]

Sorry I've been AWOL, its been a busy few days. Will catch up and post ASAP.

[Mr_Ree]

You guys got way off topic yet found something of interest. I initially thought that TSO's "lynch" vote was some form of reaction test but there was no follow through. Obvious put an end to it so I can't tell if it wa intended to go somewhere or not. TSO put the vote back but only as a result of increased pressure.

There seems to be a number of you that think TSO is scummy but I believe it was Fitz who had the best response. Look at the wagons. If we don't lynch nopoint today, he still has to be investigated. The investigator would have to reveal themself to give us the information. That's something we want to avoid for as long as possible.

Yes the wagon went fast BUT he really should be the obvious choice after yesterday. The lines were clearly drawn in the sand. The town was divided between a scum wagon and two town wagons. Yes, bussing could have occurred in the later votes but I highly doubt anyone else had the foresight to predict the Cooldog lynch before AJ came on the scene, thus nopoint's insistence that we look into Mara or AJ upon his flip is terribad. We should find at least one more on the town wagons.

What's this continued talk of multiball all about? Thor and Mr O. both suggested something along those lines. Announcement to another team perhaps but far too early to speculate without a non-hillbilly Mafia flip. Null for now but something to keep in mind for later.

[Mr_Ree]

Perhaps, but I don't feel that the need to investigate a non lynched TSO would be as strong as the need to investigate a non lynched nopoint. I don't feel that nopoint should be allowed to continue unconfirmed and I think it would be a waste of resources confirming him at night. It seems far better to me to go for the safe bet.

You have to admit that even you saw the connection to Cooldog yesterday but it's more than just connections. Like I said yesterday, there was an increased chance if Cooldog flipped scum but I still feel he was scummy on his own merits.

[Mr_Ree]

I thought you used different wording when you were asking me about my read on him. What you actually were talking about was that you felt I believed my read on him was solely based on his connection with Cooldog but that still shows that you made a note of the connection.

I can see where you are coming from though, you feel that scum would distance themselves more from their partners. While I can see that as a relevant point, I don't believe that's what happened. I think scum thought they had a solid mislynch and charged at it head first. Scum doesn't always have to be smart. The very fact that I've only ever been nightkilled once proves that (and even then, the doc would have protected me had they submitted a night action)

No, I think my wagon is the perfect place to look. It should be good for AT LEAST one more scum. The votes that came before the wagons changed are the ones to focus on. Nopoint stands out as the clearest candidate.

The investigation logic isn't silly or gak. The simple fact that nopoint has already claimed vanilla should be reason enough not to bother investigating him. Why force another claim when we are seemingly on track for scum anyways?

Say TSO actually got lynched and flipped town, nopoint would be investigated and would still be up for lynch tomorrow. If town, the investigator would have to choose between a mislynch or a reveal. I can't see the reverse of that because TSO hasn't claimed yet. I guess i'm not convinced on him either. Until I've explored other options, the Cooldog wagon, for me, remains a town wagon. I guess i just have trouble believing scum would bus on day 1.

[Mr_Ree]

Maybe

I can't say I don't suspect you. Again, my read on nopoint is stronger. I have a scum read on him and a "Thor" read on you, which is apparently a scummy town read.

It's not just the claim, its the perception as well. I'm not saying that VTs should never be investigated but in a situation like this, where people came into the thread with their minds already made up, it's better to follow through. It's like changing your mind to door number 2 when door number 1 was the first one that comes to mind. Yeah, you still may win a prize but you still want to see what's behind door number 1.

I just don't think people would relinquish their tunnel vision so easily. I think we would end up in the exact same place tomorrow if we picked anyone else today. I'm not saying that applies to all vanilla claims, just this one situation. I just don't see TSO as a strong enough candidate and I'm not seeing people getting all tunnelly over him either. The general consensus is that nopoint is scum and has to go where the consensus on TSO is that he could be scum but maybe not.

I guess I just view bussing differently. It's bad strategy, especially right out of the gate. It's also becoming more expected and I've been noticing that change in general site Meta. I'd expect it more towards the later days when scum is risking exposure and needs a good dose of towncred.

Maybe they did bus but since the wagons could have swung back towards town, the town wagons were the place to be for scum.

[Mr_Ree]

So I guess we're just pretty much waiting on Fitz?

what is your take on the day Jebus?

[Mr_Ree]

I'll put something together if that's what you need to see. I'd like to hear from some of the others first though. I'd rather the fence-sitters came to their own conclusions.

[Mr_Ree]

Are you referring to the Thor read or the TSO read?

Who do you think is scum Jebus?

[Mr_Ree]

Isn't there a better way to go about this?

For instance, lynch nopoint and direct TSO towards a third option?

Yes, I can see some of what TSO has done as scummy but really, we have no reason to doubt his claim. Why not confirm him at night and let the town direct his kill? That puts us in a better position doesn't it? Hell, assuming nopoint is the right choice, we can finish this by morning.

You all seem to be talking yourselves out of something you were sure of when we walked into the day. There is still a good chance nopoint is scum. We know a protection role exists - possibly one on both sides, as pointed out earlier. If we get rid of one more scum, their side loses the ability to protect itself, leaving the last scum in a position where THEY can be nightkilled.

Meanwhile, we can protect TSO at night and ensure he survives long enough to make that shot.
We are still in position for a perfect game. Now that we know town has a potential night kill, I say we make good use of it.

My question to everyone: Who is option 3?

[Mr_Ree]

Wow OK.... let me think on this. You kind of opened it up.

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

[Mr_Ree]

@Mara: That's a tough call, especially since I was planning on the reread at night to determine how I was going to proceed.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to keep Fitz around I think. Maybe Bacde too.

Option 1: How about we all FOS a night choice before we lynch and then ask the most FOS'd player to claim? Non PR and we proceed or if they claim PR, we go for the second most FOS'd.

Option 2: use the FOSs to determine the two most suspected players and leave the choice to TSO and Mara to flip a coin over?

I wouldn't normally suggest option 1 as it leads to more claims BUT my fear here is that one of the people pushing on TSO may have investigated him last night and received a guilty due to the Miller role.

I'm going to check some ISOs. I don't feel confident picking from your short list until I take a better look at all of them.

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah but if I had to pick that instant, I would have picked Dry-fit. Your point about his talks like a hillbilly post is the only thing giving me pause. I think others may come to the same conclusion so I suggested the claim namely for his sake.

Like I said, I still have to look over a few things...

[Mr_Ree]

Too drunk to make a call today. Will get to it soon. Tomorrow.

Has anyone besides Thor made a call on this?

[Mr_Ree]

unvote: nopoint

Should do this before Fitz drops the hammer...

I still don't think we covered the vig option yet. Can we at least get a consensus on two candidates?

[Mr_Ree]

It was totally the right call though, how can you fault him for that AJ?

I still think a Jk on nopoint explains night one. Still not sure about last night. I'm figuring there's a jk and a cop somewhere. Makes sense with Miller Mason vigs.

Dunno if I support a cop claim right this second. I assume if they had anything useful, they would have revealed it by now. Then again, considering how well this game has gone so far, I really can't see it as a bad idea. Meh. *shrug* lemme think on this for a bit. There are a few players I find suspect.

[Mr_Ree]

You obviously didn't see it as inevitable, otherwise you wouldn't have pushed for TSO.

I still see Mara as town and with the claim, TSO should be town as well. I admit, I was starting to see the TSO case towards the end of the day but Mara's claim killed all suspicion for me.

I kind of see Thor's point. Two players with a qt and a kill with one that reads as scum if investigated could be seen as suspect, but I believe their claim to be true.

I don't believe TSO should be lynched any time soon.

[Mr_Ree]

Risk free as in it gives the town essentially another lynch each day and the mafia has to kill one of them thus confirming the other to stop it?

Nice. Thank you.

There's only one way to get rid of a pair of Masons, lynch one during the day and kill the other at night...

That does seem to be what's going on. Doesn't it? Of course, that would probably come under scrutiny, which leads me to believe the player attempting it is either bad with judging cases and reactions OR, they have an Ace up their sleeve.

VOTE: Mr. Obvious

Discuss.

[Mr_Ree]

You were certainly willing to lynch with or without a cop claim.

[Mr_Ree]

How come the vig never gets any kills? I mean, we haven't had one kill this game. I doubt we have this many BPs and perfect protects...

Jailkeep nopoint night 1, jailkeep Mara night 2

Nopoint tries to make the kill night 1 since he's already suspected and not worried about trackers or cops. Mara's nk is unsuccessful because nopoint is jailkept.

Night 2: scum tries to target Mara (who was basically confirmed town with a Mason vig claim)
JK tries to protect Mara with the Jailkeep.

That was the most plausible explanation I could come up with.

BTW, I'm not the jk.

Question: There's something I want to clear up before we proceed with any kind of massclaim. Is 4-9 even possible without multiball? Thor and TSO got me thinking about it. I've only ever seen it in multiball. Town does seem pretty OP though.

[Mr_Ree]

But he did say he thought Thor was scum... in fact, it was his top scum read iirc.

[Mr_Ree]

We should lynch Mr. Obvious.

You should just trust me. It will ensure the win.

This was me BTW.

Reading...

[Mr_Ree]

They have specifically stated that they are 'confirmed' to each other.

A three man mason group with one as a miller?

I officially hate this setup.

I 2nd this. There's no way all 3 of them are town.

Look at the way he's pushing this

[Mr_Ree]

Duh. Of course they're town.

@Thor: Maybe. I still saw a townie side to Fitz in earlier days. I'd be OK with vigging him I guess but only if the game didn't end with Mr O.

[Mr_Ree]

They are alignment confirmed to each other, it doesn't matter what forum this is

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah, you could be right Thor....

I was reading it as Fitz keeping the possibility open but that doesn't appear to be the case. There should be one scum left and 9 townies unless someone knows something I don't. There is plenty of time to explore that option later. Pretty sure the last is one of those two. Obvious is still the obvious choice though.

[Mr_Ree]

@AJ: I honestly can't but we have no idea what a Jedi or Singer are capable of. Maybe we already crushed the Mafia counter roles.

Was just reading up. I think I can get behind a Fitz lynch. I would prefer Mr. O but I can come back to that tomorrow IF the game isn't over and IF he's still alive. I really do think he's scum though. His day 2 play was certainly better than his day 1 but day 3 just stands out completely, especially in regards to the Mason push.

[Mr_Ree]

She already did by claiming to make the kill both nights.

I believe Fitz. Can we go for Mr. Obvious now?

[Mr_Ree]

especially in regards to the Mason push.

Do you think scum will make such a stupidly stupid push?

Considering it was also being pushed by town, yes, yes I do.

[Mr_Ree]

UNVOTE:

Diabolic and Jebus are the same slot Dry-Fit.

I suppose I have no objections to lynching the Lurker slot.

-Me (horrible at remembering to switch profiles)

[Mr_Ree]

Too many games. As far as the state of this games goes, it's in a much better position than any of my other games. Basically I've already deemed this one a win.

I'm battling stupidity everywhere else. This game is basically a wrap. Lynch Jebus, vig obvious, good game.

[Mr_Ree]

Lololol

Like I said, wrapped up...

[Mr_Ree]

I am Sheriff Bart - The smartest Sheriff in the west. (VT )

Good game

[Mr_Ree]

Probably, but can we choose not to be sloppy just in case?

Sloppy? Weren't you advocating claims?

[Mr_Ree]

I don't get what the price of tea in China has to do with this game.

What was sloppy? Keyblade claimed Hillbilly. That's 3. Do you believe there are more?

[Mr_Ree]

So has anyone else figured out that this game is backwards and there are more hillbillies than town?

Hillbillies = town, Masons = Mafia

Thad or TSO first?

[Mr_Ree]

No problem. I'm the hillbilly cop. Thor night 1, Fitz night 2, AJ night 3. That's 4, plus the other three is seven = majority.

Yay!

[Mr_Ree]

Not until they read today....

[Mr_Ree]

That's kinda the big mechanic to this game, nobody knowing. I knew yesterday, I just had to confirm it with majority before I went shouting it out.

When kbw said she was a vig I was going to reveal it then but the lynch happened too fast. I tried to back off to give you the chance to go after TSO.

[Mr_Ree]

I know. It was hard to believe that I picked out every other hillbilly day 1. Then I kept finding more... lol

[Mr_Ree]

Yup. You were the first I checked.

[Mr_Ree]

I wannted to keep you around and still leave the option open to lynch you if needed. That and for some reason I thought I could recruit by investigating. Pv played me on that one by saying the mechanics existed and giving me a private qt.

[Mr_Ree]

Who is weezy?

[Mr_Ree]

Sorry Thad. You did play well though if that's any consolation. Who did you target last night?

[Mr_Ree]

I know. The mechanics probably wouldn't have been uncovered if I didn't keep my investigations alive. To be fair, we weren't supposed to come to this conclusion until it was pretty much too late to do anything about it.

@TSO: sorry dude. You're outnumbered.


Lets figure out what we are doing at night and finish this off.

[Mr_Ree]

Any day 4 vigs? I'd like to wrap this up so I can focus on my other games.

5 is possibly too much for me now and I feel bad about ignoring my Hydra.

[Mr_Ree]

@Fitz, if there are no day 4 vigs, jailkeep Thad.

Will continue to look for town. Never did get around to checking Mr. Obv.

vote: TSO

I only speak the truth. Today at least.

[Mr_Ree]

Nope, just trying to wrap this up. The game is already won.

[Mr_Ree]

I am ultra confident. We all got fake claims

[Mr_Ree]

@Obvious: while you are technically correct, both TSO and Thad are Masons. In this game, Masons=Mafia, Hillbillies=Town.

It doesn't matter which one we get rid of tonight because they are BOTH "Mafia". Fitz can jk the other one tonight so we don't have to worry about the Mason/Mafia/vig/nightkill.

Before you change your vote, if you intend to, please let us know if you are a night 4 vig so we can plan accordingly. I'm also looking for the wheezy character because I think they can join my qt. Not that it really matters at this point, it would just be the icing on the cake.

[Mr_Ree]

Wait, do all of us have qt's?

[Mr_Ree]

I was too late in pointing it out.

Kbw claimed hillbilly and got lynched before I could stop anyone. Basically I knew yesterday but wanted to wait until I was positive since I had to out other hillbillies to prove it to everyone.

[Mr_Ree]

Give everyone a chance to post first. I'm still hoping for another vig so we can skip the next day phase altogether.

[Mr_Ree]

That works too. Assuming Fitz lets you.

Hammer away!

[Mr_Ree]

Yes. That is correct. Thad was kind enough to offer to shoot himself.

I'll leave it up to Fitz to make that call.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm enjoying it....

I thought you may have started figuring it out yesterday. Until you dropped TSO.... AJ too I think.

[Mr_Ree]

PV is Vla.

Back later. Working.

[Mr_Ree]

You probably can't go against your wincon by shooting yourself.

vote Thad

Seriously though, thanks for the defense day 1. I probably would have been lynched if not for you and Mara

[Mr_Ree]

In case for some reason it matters, Mr. Obvious is a hillbilly.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm the cop. I investigated you last night. The only one who hasn't been checked is dryfit I think.

[Mr_Ree]

Ree, you sunofagun you tried to use me

and I do want to know how Fitz got us every night as well...

also, this game thoroughly fucked my mind

hehehe. sorry about that...


If it helps, I was using multiple people, not just you.

[Mr_Ree]

The funny thing is, when PV locked the thread after Thad was lynched, I submitted an investigation on Dryfit.


Bang on reads all game! BooYa!

[Mr_Ree]

I was the only one with a qt....

PV must know how much I like to hear myself talk. I kept trying to get myself the night kill haha. I think I even submitted one for the hell of it.

[Mr_Ree]

I REALLY wanted to do that day 3 but I had to wait until I was sure we had majority.

I had a lot of fun this game, thanks PV. Thanks Cooldog for making things interesting.

[Mr_Ree]

Lol. I tried to keep those I investigated alive. That's why I was pushing for you instead of Fitz. I figured you would flip Mafia and I could say "was every scum voting me?!?"

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah I did. That's why I was so focused day 1. I had to be.

Cooldog did use some rather obvious scumtells though which helped me significantly. I will admit that I submitted a nightkill after nopoint flipped. Early game, I was actually focusing on trying to recruit/be recruited and getting the nightkill. To do that, I had to be super town so I just played as I would have if town. I started scumhunting and actually went after those I thought may be on my team while at the same time, tried to leave those I investigated alive.

When Thor and AJ started talking about multiball, I tried to kill that thought as best I could. I needed everyone to think it was just a normal game until I got it figured out.

[Mr_Ree]

Scum not knowing that they are scum defeats the purpose of informed minority.

Yet with the alignments reversed, they couldn't know without getting a significant advantage. Perhaps an extra player or traitor would balance that issue out. TSO had a godfather type role that actually could have made things difficult for us.

It all came down to the claim. If that didn't happen, things could have easily gone the other way.

I ended being the informed minority in the end though. They probably would have gotten another mislynch, if not for the big reveal.

I'm not saying it's 100% perfect but I did enjoy it and I could see how things could have gone differently. All town had fake claims. That should have said something...

[Mr_Ree]

Mafia thought their numbers were dwindling. With the whole Miller thing, you were an obvious mislynch. Not to mention, we would have had to get rid of all the Masons anyway.

The only reason I didn't jump on at that time is because I needed to confirm my theory.

@PV, it was a pretty fun game anyway. I enjoyed it. The idea of making hillbillies hunt themselves to look town enough so they wouldn't get hunted by other hillbillies was a good theme.