Mini 1633 ~ Non-normal Mafias Mafia OVER!!!
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 93, Om of the Nom wrote:flubber is def town
Why?-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 132, tn5421 wrote:Blocs never need to be explicitly mentioned to be formed, yet that is exactly what is happening based on the (apparently) flimsiest of reads.
How is that scummy?-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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The best move for scum is often pro-town (e.g. bussing when they don't have to). Of course, that blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum moves. Forming townblocs blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum, because you don't know if the player forming the townbloc is scum or town. That lack of knowledge doesn't mean the act of creating a townbloc is scummy -- it's null, unless you have independent evidence that the player forming the townbloc is town or scum, in which case the player is town or scum based on something other than the act of forming the townbloc. Point is, forming townblocs is null. Whether they end up having a pro-town or pro-scum effect depends on whether the player forming it is scum.
As for Mastin's "lecture," Mastin's point is more about probability of success or failure -- townblocs formed early fail more often than townblocs formed later; townblocs that form organically without trying succeed more often than townblocs that form consciously. The original lecture -- I looked into it -- was in response to the question, "What's the best way to form townblocs." The question wasn't whether forming townblocs is scummy, and Mastin's answer has to be read in that context. I don't agree 100% with Mastin's analysis, either.
In my experience, I've never seen a townie say to themselves, "X is town because X formed a townbloc," so forming townblocs doesn't have much value as far as tricking townies into thinking you're town. I've also never seen any evidence that people who "force" townblocs are scum more often than town. In fact, in my experience, the vast majority of folks forming the townblocs are town.
I'm not saying Metal is town. I don't know. I think as a matter of scumhunting, a better approach is asking Metal why he thinks Om and TN are town. Trying to understand his thought-process, etc.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 225, Ghostlin wrote:In post 167, FourTrouble wrote:much
...And the relevance this has for scum hunting is? I'm trying to decide if Four is Town and over-analyzing a point of the game via Mastin because apparently we navel gaze Day 1 OR if I should lynch this with nuclear fart fire.
Relevant to Metal's alignment.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 213, Om of the Nom wrote:ok so basically i liked flub's post on policy lynching a policy lyncher felt town as heck and he feels like he's on the same wavelength as me regarding setup spec and he sounds honest as heck when i read his posts so im quite happy putting him as 99% town right now
What sounds "honest" about his posts? I don't buy a 99% town based on wanting to policy lynch a policy lyncher and being on the same page as you regarding strategy -- those are both theoretical positions.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 261, tn5421 wrote:You know what it's also characteristic of? Newbs being uncertain what to do against perceived veterans attacking en masse.
And I disagree with this. Town noobs don't self-vote so early, even after some pressure. At least not typically. Zombeh's just given up, which I don't think town would have done, the way Zombeh did. I also agree with whoever said he should replace out if he doesn't intend on playing.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 296, Om of the Nom wrote:also i think four trouble is town as heck but idk why his vote is still on me when he's openly agreeing with what i said about zombeh being scum and is not pushing for me being scum in the slightest
I don't automatically town-read folks just because I agree with them. But you're right, I don't want my vote on you -- just figuring out where I want it.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 327, Om of the Nom wrote:whats wrong with ghost?
I feel like he's going through the motions -- asking questions, taking a couple positions -- but doesn't care what happens. Part of this comes from his overuse of qualifiers like damn and fuck; overemphasizing points that don't need that emphasis makes the emotion feel very fake. You, Pasch, TN, eye, Math, and even FuD (who I want to see more from but I liked his first two posts) feel much more invested in what's happening.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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I agree with you about Zombeh. I'm down to lynch him, but for the moment, I don't think voting/pressuring him is very helpful. I'm also holding out because I'm hoping he's replaced, and I'm also paranoid he's an idiot noob town, so I'd rather focus on people who are here and who we can sort right now.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 330, Om of the Nom wrote:UNLESS YOU ARE EXPLICITLY READING ZOMBEHS AS TOWN YOU SHOULDNT BE DEFENDING THE WAGON
This, too. Seriously.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 402, Om of the Nom wrote:FT how did you feel about Ghost's post about pasch?
Doesn't cut either way. Bit hypocritical after he attacked my post about town blocs, but it's also not something I feel strongly about.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FuD had a great post earlier that I thought was town - then he had that weird post where he didn't catch up but felt like weighing in on the lynch lurkers discussion. Which sucks cause the lynch lurkers discussion was a great way for scum to post without taking any meaningful positions about the players in the game... so I understand why you'd suspect FuD, but I'm not gonna vote him.
Ghost might be town. I'm not sure anymore on that read. The emotion in his posts feels so fake to me, but I could be wrong, and he could just say "fuck" gratuitously for no reason all the time.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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Yea, that's the post. I know this isn't brilliant evidence or anything but changing names to "Ghosty" and "Flubbs" and just the overall wording of the post gives me huge town vibes.
But of course, the lactivity (new word for lack of activity) in this game is screwing with the reads I have - so I can't tell if FuD is town. Or like, I can't tell anymore if dino is town because he disappeared after I got good vibes from him. I dunno. I'm basically just waiting until after the holidays to sort shit out. I'm starting to think Ghost is probably town because he's active and I like how he responded to my vote (i.e. not giving a shit and just continuing to talk about other stuff).-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 472, Ghostlin wrote:In post 468, FourTrouble wrote:Ghost might be town. I'm not sure anymore on that read. The emotion in his posts feels so fake to me, but I could be wrong, and he could just say "fuck" gratuitously for no reason all the time.
I'll let you in on a little secret: I do it to illicit reactions. As both alignments. It's to sort out the bullshit, if you can pardon my french. It also lets me rattle your cage a little. I'll be honest, there's not a lot here to be emotionally worked up in this game. No one's said anything really scummy or exasperatingly dumb. Then again, the amount of sheer NOTHING that's been said in this game like Om shared about FuD has also been said.
Now I've just fucking ruined it for the entire rest of THIS game, but...I really don't have anything to hide.
You're fucking with me, right? I highly doubt you calculate every use of "fuck" just to see how people respond. Plus, I don't think it rattles anyone's cage (or at least not mine). All I know is the emotion doesn't fit the context or gamestate, and that's always something I look for as town.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 642, Randomnamechange wrote:So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott
Please explain. I'm like 99% certain eye is town.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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I like this entrance. Pretty natural, honest, towny.
In post 662, Titus wrote:@TN, The argument isn't forced. I just don't get what his problem is.
As for why sheeping, I cannot help but read the page I say hello on. It happens. Without context, Om looked bad. Plus a calm and reserved player like Paschendale generally does not tunnel like that. So sheeping would at least get me reads and see how everyone else felt. It gets us away ftom policy and towards discussion.
And I like this explanation. And I agree with what he's saying - out of context, Om wasn't obvious town from that page. So both these posts give me a townread on Titus.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 683, Titus wrote:@FourTrouble, why is Om town? Why would Pasch be so confident in something so wrong?
Keeping the game alive when there wasn't anyone else giving a shit + pushing the right people at the right time are massive town-tells. Zombeh was legitimately scummy when Om pushed him, and Om's push is also a massive town-tell.
Pasch's confidence doesn't mean shit. He could be scum. Probably is. Or he could be a clueless townie. Either way, I wouldn't sheep him just because he's "confident." Even highly accurate townies (and I wouldn't put Pasch in that category) are confident sometimes about wrong reads.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 854, ika wrote:In post 849, FourTrouble wrote:ika, why are you self-voting? What pro-town goal are you pursuing?
randomly we decided that dino was no longer a good idea to lynch so people started to pick me and i said and i quote:
IDGAF
*votes self*
gogogogogo
---
then titus defends me and spikes myparanoia
eye jumps on
phase jumps on and misreps me
basicly we are playing musical votes
Okay, that doesn't really answer my question. What's the pro-town objective to voting yourself? I know you're an emotional player so it's not a tell for you, but that still doesn't mean you should do it.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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If self-voting is "never okay," why'd you spend so much energy defending Zombeh?-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 855, Ghostlin wrote:His reasoning seems pretty shallow (if not weird, read his Ika defense) when it exists, his actual defense of Ika has bizarre resonance with the idea that a Vig would kill Ika (Vigs generally do not target folks who will have their ass in the wind soon) and it seems like a really fucking great way to get town cred.
Where's his ika defense? I see him pushing eye more than he's defending ika. He says something about who a vig will target, but it seems more to do with the fairly popular view that Titus is a policy lynch, so it makes sense. I don't think it's scummy or Towny - plus it's a shitty lynch to push cause he has 4 posts. I want to see more from him. Right now, Pasch is the best person to pressure.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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In post 876, MTD wrote:Uh yeah, I might be ok with lynching Pasch as well.
Why the hesitation? Vote.-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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Midget, the suspicion on Pasch has nothing to do with Om. Take a look at his votes. He defends Zombeh for self-voting, then jumps on ika when he self-votes. He hasn't done anything significant this game other than attack the reasoning others use - so his play is reactive (just sitting on the outside), inconsistent, and opportunistic (voting ika).-
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FourTrouble Mafia Scum
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