Mini 1663: Rick and Morty Mafia (Game Over)

Titus · Post Post #795 (isolation #0) » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:29 pm

i am here. VOTE: Killer Jester

Titus · Post Post #806 (isolation #1) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:48 am

I did not submit an action that would interfere with lufan's shot. I would like KJ to claim before me. My analysis coincides with Kthx for vca.

Titus · Post Post #808 (isolation #2) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:08 am

Did you get a result KJ?

Titus · Post Post #809 (isolation #3) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:21 am

In post 801, Kthxbye wrote:rbd: first, where is your vote on me? Next, how is it you are so quick to even believe I lost my vote without a vote count since yesterday I was your lynch today no matter what?

Kthx, if you lost your vote, you are town, not scum. Scum stole your vote most likely as scum contained a vote stealer since no claimed role was a vote stealer. Such a thing can be verified with a VC, when the mod gets to it. There's no point in voting you until after that VC comes around.

Titus · Post Post #810 (isolation #4) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:26 am

In post 799, Rainbowdash wrote:lufan needs to claim kill shot
jingle needs to claim if they are now VT
Titus needs to claim their target

In that order.

Please no pony else talk until that happens because I think I see what may have gone down last night. Spent the last couple hours trying to work it out and there is one thing sticking out that I think catches two scum. Maybe more

I think I have figured something out, and it likely suggests a scum, but I'm just gathering the last little bits of information I need to be sure. After KJ answers my questions and Jingle claims, I'll post what I think happened so you can compare. :nod: Kthx, you should get in on this too.

Titus · Post Post #811 (isolation #5) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:27 am

For the record,

I think RBD, kthx, myself and lufan are all town.

Titus · Post Post #814 (isolation #6) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:01 am

I did jail KJ.

Jingle, are you seriously going to argue no scum redirector because town had one? Were you not in UDesign?

Titus · Post Post #817 (isolation #7) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:55 am

Hahaha no.

Titus · Post Post #819 (isolation #8) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:07 pm

If you think we have confscum here, we lynch them, then NL. If you actually thought NL was the best play, you would have opened with it. I am wanting to see if we can confirm scum here. No harm in checking that out.

Titus · Post Post #824 (isolation #9) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:36 pm

@RBD, I'm expecting a scum redirector of somesort. You should take a look at UDesign. I might have referenced this game while hanging out a few times. We had a scum busdriver which wrecked havoc with the scumteams.

We already know that scum have a bus driver in existence. I'll explain why. Heartless died. Heartless tends to be a better player. So Heartless heals scum OR his target was swapped so he would heal scum. Heartless claimed he would heal Flames. We know Flames was town. So that means either Heartless lied for absolutely no reason, or Heartless submitted that he would heal Flames and scum bussed it. I'm going to suppose that Heartless wasn't just an asinine liar.

Then what

actually

happened?

We know that d3x swapped himself with me OR scum created that scenario. I don't come back as Rick but that was the result. I don't see K3thx lying here, as he could just claim that I came back as Morty and that would be a much simpler gambit. Given that kthx didn't get an intended result, we know that he's not likely in communication with d3x. He could be scum, but why wouldn't scum just lie here for a mislynch? So much easier IMO.

We have the issue of an unexpected block. We know it wasn't on kthx or Jingle. I am a roleblocker but one shot. I intended to jail killer jester.

We had a vig, who had intentions of shooting last night, but didn't reveal the target. He hinted at shooting RBD but was leaving it up in the air. If scum feared someone shooting them, they would take all actions targeting them and redirect them to another target. So I'm seeing Killer Jester being swapped with either lufan or RBD. No one was aware of my intentions to jail Killer Jester, but I believe Killer Jester is lying about being blocked. It is the most logical sense of action results here.

Killer Jester gets a ???, if she predicts the lynch target the night before. That sounds like a role that cannot be verified. No accountability whatsoever. The rest of the roles are wacky but they are at least clarified.

Titus · Post Post #826 (isolation #10) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:04 pm

Part 2 - Rephrased: We have a scum bus driver. Where did they go last night? I claimed to have blocked KJ, but lufan's kill did not go through. Why? If Lufan or RBD wasn't jailed/healed/roleblocked, then the kill should have gone through. We can eliminate doctor for obvious reasons. Scum jailkeeper doesn't make sense here as we have heard about zero roleblocks the other days (correct me if I am wrong). If scum had a jailkeeper, someone else would have claimed blocked last night. Roleblocker functions on the same premise. Scum doctor is obviously shit because of the bussing and lack of town killing power. So we're left with town jailed lufan/RBD or protected. Yet, that's not the action I claimed.

Based on claims and logical setup deduction, we're left with an impossibility that should not happen and a scum bus driver that did not act. Solving the two says that the scum bus driver acted and swapped KJ (my jail target) with lufan or RBD. If that's the case though, KJ should have claimed a result making me look bad. She didn't, so she's likely scum.

Titus · Post Post #827 (isolation #11) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:11 pm

In post 826, Titus wrote:If scum had a jailkeeper, someone else would have claimed blocked
last night
night 1. Roleblocker functions on the same premise. Scum doctor is obviously shit because of the bussing and lack of town killing power. So we're left with town jailed lufan/RBD or

Fixed.

Titus · Post Post #829 (isolation #12) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:32 pm

In post 693, killerjester wrote:If I get jailed it's as if my prediction never happened, so I won't get anything.

Can we get a hammer in here what what.

This implies that KJ should have had a result to share. If she was jailed, she'd get no actual result, meaning she predicted Flames's lynch.

Titus · Post Post #830 (isolation #13) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:32 pm

But if I am wrong, then my case on KJ is admittedly not as strong.

Titus · Post Post #831 (isolation #14) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:35 pm

Setting that aside for a moment,

if we suppose that KJ is town, then RBD would logically be scum. Scum wouldn't swap KJ with RBD if they were both scum, that makes no sense at all. If RBD was town, why swap RBD at all and let lufan shoot RBD?

If KJ is scum, scum swapped RBD with KJ... why? RBD was likely to be shot.

Hmm

VOTE: unvote

Titus · Post Post #832 (isolation #15) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:37 pm

Part 2, swap with Lufan

Supposing scum swapped Lufan with KJ... why? What would they gain from this? From what we know... no one was targeting lufan. I can't see that making any sense.

Titus · Post Post #833 (isolation #16) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:11 pm

Just occurred to me, swap KJ with Lufan. If Lufan shoots KJ, Lufan commits seppuku without my block. It would be a protection measure.

Titus · Post Post #834 (isolation #17) » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:13 pm

In post 825, Elbirn wrote:
In post 824, Titus wrote:
We already know that scum have a bus driver in existence. I'll explain why. Heartless died. Heartless tends to be a better player. So Heartless heals scum OR his target was swapped so he would heal scum. Heartless claimed he would heal Flames. We know Flames was town. So that means either Heartless lied for absolutely no reason, or Heartless submitted that he would heal Flames and scum bussed it. I'm going to suppose that Heartless wasn't just an asinine liar.

I intended to jail killer jester.
We had a vig, who had intentions of shooting last night, but didn't reveal the target. He hinted at shooting RBD but was leaving it up in the air. If scum feared someone shooting them, they would take all actions targeting them and redirect them to another target. So I'm seeing Killer Jester being swapped with either lufan or RBD. No one was aware of my intentions to jail Killer Jester, but I believe Killer Jester is lying about being blocked. It is the most logical sense of action results here.

Part 1: Pretty much matches with what I was thinking by Day 2's end, where if Flames flipped town then D3x, as the busdriver, had to be scum. Except then he died and flipped town. What's got me confused is why would scum kill D3x when he could have been lynched today based on that, and instead they revealed that they have to have a busdriver?

Part 2: See this doesn't make sense, you jail kept Jester, but you think he's lying about being blocked. Wha?

The answer to part 1 is scum do not intend to kill Rick. They intended to shoot me (keep the gamestate the same) but Rick swapped with me. See kthx result. FMPOV, thx countdown.

Titus · Post Post #838 (isolation #18) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:00 am

Jingle is scum most likely. No serial killer. Scum have redirect.

Based on NAR we conclude either a)scum redirect Lufan directly onto KJ away from RBD

OR

KJ was bussed with Lufan or RBD.

Either scenario matches with the extra heartless death.

Not inclined to lynch Lufan, kthx.

Jingle, why did you vote steal kthx? Is the loss of the vote temporary or permanent.

Titus · Post Post #840 (isolation #19) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:22 am

Yeah totally not buying the random unstoppable act from RBD. He has this role, yet does not factor it into his scenarios...

Also, why wasn't RBD vanillaized if he had that role?

Titus · Post Post #841 (isolation #20) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:26 am

Aristo/Jingle/RBD

I think that is the scum team.

Titus · Post Post #842 (isolation #21) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:28 am

VOTE: Jingle

We can test many a theory today...

Titus · Post Post #844 (isolation #22) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:48 am

Does not make sense with NAR. Same flaw with Jingle. I will go through with Jingle first to show why.

NAR states to resolve all actions impacting other players first.

If Jingle was targeted, he should have been vanilla, thus Kthx not lose his vote.

RBD is a little more complicated as he goes first in NAR breakdown possibly, but we have a missing redirect. We have a claimed redirect or.

Titus · Post Post #846 (isolation #23) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:53 am

Lols... You do realize my theory is they are both scum right...with you...so them backing each other up, even if they could paraphrase that well, is not good enough.

What are your reads?

Titus · Post Post #848 (isolation #24) » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:23 pm

@KillerJester, then discuss the reads. Just throwing your hands up isn't going to get us anywhere. You're stifling discussion which is not protown. If you had to lynch, who would it be?

Also, you're supposing Jingle has turned vanilla. There's zero evidence of Aristophanes actually turning people vanilla and it's actually a decent scum gambit to claim vanillaizer.

Titus · Post Post #851 (isolation #25) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:04 am

@RBD, You have a bad habit of actually skipping a few steps of logic this game. Clearing Jingle based on his role claim alone is bad. You should also see the glaring NAR problem with Jingle's claim that I do.

Second, we look at the votes. The Jingle wagon dismantled because it was too fast, not because Jingle did anything townie. There's not much in the way of scum on Jingle's wagon either.

Titus · Post Post #852 (isolation #26) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:42 am

Before I forget - 393, Jingle and Rip should live [Aris]
477, Jingle claims Inventor
576, RBD says at most one scum is in Ari/Jingle, sets up hard defense of Buddy if the other falls. RBD has done no investigating until that point of either pair. Nothing explains where this thought comes from.
789, says Aris is helping with conform able night actions, yet nothing Ari has done has been confirmed.
845 Ari tries to set up a scenario where either RBD or Jingle is scum but not both.

Titus · Post Post #854 (isolation #27) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:51 pm

If you believe Aristo is scum, then you can vote him.

Are you really pretending to not get NAR.

Here, I'll walk you through it.

[quote=From the Wiki]The Golden Rule

Apply actions which modify other actions before the actions they modify.

Applying the Golden Rule in Three Easy Steps

Find an action (or a passive modifier, such as Bulletproof) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
Resolve it.
Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.[/quote]

Here we have an action, Aristo's Vanillaizer that could not be modified by any other action. The roleblocks have unquestioning been accounted for. None of them hit Jingle or Aristo (we know this based on the claims already presented).
Aristo hit Jingle. If that was true, then Jingle would have been a vanilla by the time Jingle had his action.

As for not adjusting, you and Jingle have had the most mushy claims this game has seen.

We have a redirector that's missing, based on what happened n2.

Town has a lot of weak power and a high KPN. That can happen in role madness. You're doubtcasting Elbrin throughout this wall, yet you believe he's town. You and I both know the objective of town is to gather, not fracture. Yet here, you've doubtcasted a lot of people.

You do a lot of stating that my theory on Aristo is wrong and defend him, yet you put that he's scum in your final reads. Why?

My option is as follows

Scum Redirector/Bus Driver
I was redirected to Lufan or RDB.

Pure simple.

Titus · Post Post #857 (isolation #28) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:07 pm

Rick swapped himself with me. Scum tried to kill me. They wound up killing Rick.

Second, scum were aware of you likely being shot and turned the shot towards killer jester or had a bus driver that redirected my block.

So it looks like this

Rick swaps Me and Him.
Scum target me and actually shoot Rick.
D3x targets me. D3x gets Rick's name.

The above has to be true or you believe Kthx to be lying. Yet, if he was, he'd just lie and say that I came back scum.

So now we get to the scum redirector.

Either

Lufan targets you.
You were swapped with KJ due to scum bus driver.
Lufan shoots KJ who is blocked. (This will likely be verified tomorrow if this is the accurate setup, or KJ will be dead.)

OR

Lufan targets you.
Scum redirector redirects Lufan to target KJ. Thus, KJ is saved because I jailed her.

OR

Lufan targets you.
Scum redirect my action to Lufan/RBD. (Much less likely considering scum had no indication of me acting or who I would act on).

In any of these scenarios, scum know you're scum and take actions to save you.

Titus · Post Post #859 (isolation #29) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:20 pm

It's a sub-optimal play to try and get two kills?

Remember, scum have to try and shoot who is NOT being swapped with the bus driver. Shooting obvious town isn't going to work.

Titus · Post Post #860 (isolation #30) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:22 pm

If you think it's Aristo, vote Aristo. Put your money where your mouth is.

You also haven't answered why you think he's scum.

Titus · Post Post #861 (isolation #31) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:06 pm

Your theory also fails to explain the day 2 debacle or why thx just does not fake a guilty here.

Titus · Post Post #865 (isolation #32) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:43 pm

In post 864, Jingle wrote:
In post 859, Titus wrote:It's a sub-optimal play to try and get two kills?

Remember, scum have to try and shoot who is NOT being swapped with the bus driver. Shooting obvious town isn't going to work.

Wait, why? Why do they have to try to shoot around the conftown busdriver? Hitting d3x is actually optimal for scum here.

No. If D3x was alive, he would be painted as the scum bus driver and be the easy solution.

Titus · Post Post #867 (isolation #33) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:03 pm

Stating someone is not North is not that much of a clear. You also act like you are in control of the lynch. Only the facts are in control.

Titus · Post Post #869 (isolation #34) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:17 am

Right. I was shot by scum Jingle. D3x bussed himself. So having scum redirect a kill onto me is worthless.

Having Lucian committed seppuku is not helpful to if a kill goes wild, she would be lynched.

They want to avoid protown Elbrin due to the fact d3x will switch with him and funny business can also be blamed on him from D2.

That leaves KJ and kthx as choices for the second shot. Kthx can match flavor and s weak. KJ does Lord knows what else. Given the number of players alive, her prediction is very likely to happen.

Titus · Post Post #871 (isolation #35) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:18 am

Why the change Elbrin?

Titus · Post Post #873 (isolation #36) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:52 am

That's not possible as Kthx would not get a Rick result on me. D3x had to swap with me.

Titus · Post Post #882 (isolation #37) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:14 am

^^^ Unless I was redirected off of KJ, KJ could not have stolen Kathy's vote.

Titus · Post Post #883 (isolation #38) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:15 am

Kathy = kthx

Titus · Post Post #885 (isolation #39) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:04 am

UNVOTE:
I think I have what I need. Will probably change to Ari in a bit. I want Jingle's response first

Titus · Post Post #889 (isolation #40) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:12 pm

I don't see Kthx as scum. If kthx is town, so is KJ.

If kthx is town, then kj is also town because kj scum means the scum bus driver did nothing and there is no explanation for why RBD is alive.

If kthx is town, he targeted d3x which sent him to me.
Scum tried to kill me, which frankly is very consistent with players who are familiar with my game as I would believe a scum bus driver existed and push there.
Considering Lufan intended to shoot RBD and he is not dead, the kill must have been interfered with.
We have an outstanding scum bus driver/redirector given the Heartless scenario. Swapping RBD with me or D3x would create an interesting paradox. But the other answers are clear. Scum redirected lufan vig try onto me lufan or kj.

Kthx not faking a guilty appears really townie to me there.

If Kthx is scum, we have at least an NAR problem with Ari.

Said NAR problem is present regardless of your/kthx/kj/RBD. Given we need a scum bus driver, it must be in the unproven actions.

Mod: What happens if 2 bus drivers target the same target?
What happens if a redirector redirects an action to someone targeted by a bus driver?

Titus · Post Post #893 (isolation #41) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:44 pm

@RBD, why would Kthx be lynched if he faked a guilty? It would narrow down the lynch between two people. Yet more likely than not, it's mylo so we cannot lynch both.

We need a scum bus driver or redirector to explain the Heartless scenario night1/day 2.

If kthx is town, KJ is most likely town. If kthx is scum, the prior conclusions go out the window since we do not know what scum changed.

Titus · Post Post #894 (isolation #42) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:45 pm

In post 892, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 889, Titus wrote:Given we need a scum bus driver, it must be in the unproven actions.

So who is that?

It cant be me (Due to Aristo)
It cant be Jingle (he is proven)
It cant be Aristo (he is proven)
Im betting its not lufan
If lufan is town it cant be you

So its Elbrin/KJ/kthnx then right?

So how are you getting KJ and kthnx are town again?

None of you are proven.

Titus · Post Post #895 (isolation #43) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:47 pm

In post 891, Aristophanes wrote:You do realize the problems with asking for mod clarification at this point in the game, yes?
Mod just changed with no prior instruction or any info given.
What good does it do?

You do realize that all you are doing is bitching and not providing substance.

Reads please.

Titus · Post Post #899 (isolation #44) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:00 pm

RBD, you never really claimed anything probable. Just super negative redirector.
If there is no scum redirector, then the only scenario is Ari lied about vanillaizing you and you are lying. Someone had to fuck with Heartless's check. If it was you, you were not made vanilla and the mod lied to you. Given mods here do not use the drug dealer role, I can safely exclude this.

It's not a conspiracy for you to claim vague roles and work together. T looks like this will be decided tomorrow.

You still have not answered why you think Ari is scum.

Titus · Post Post #902 (isolation #45) » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:45 pm

@RBD, if you feel like further talking is useless, vote no lynch.

Tbh, I was hoping to get a scum bus here. Given kthx vote loss, getting 5 votes was impossible unless scum bussed. I don't see that happening so it's probably time to fill KJ's no lynch prescription here.

Titus · Post Post #907 (isolation #46) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:49 am

Killer jester, I always intended to no but I could not get people to talk by advocating for it.

If a lynch got to l minus 1, I would have unvoted.

Titus · Post Post #909 (isolation #47) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:07 am

Because it pins people to a story and stops quickhammering in Lylo. If someone votes for someone who they claim is not scum yesterday, there better be one hell of a reason.

Plus town can look at the reads of the dead person.

On that note, Your reads list.

Titus · Post Post #910 (isolation #48) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:08 am

That being said, it is possible that my reads are wrong and NAR is misapplied by the mod.

Titus · Post Post #912 (isolation #49) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:53 am

That generates wifom. They will kill that person anyway, so we might as well trap them.

Titus · Post Post #914 (isolation #50) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:32 pm

Unlike you, I am not certain. Yet if he refuses to give his reads, I would be more inclined to agree.

Titus · Post Post #920 (isolation #51) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:11 pm

@Ari,

I subbed in during nightfall. No one knew my jailing action. I selected based on similar thinkings to kthx's post in the thread. Prior to my/kthx claim, scum would be under the supposition that D3x subbed with their target. If kthx is scum, that's still the supposition.

@All, I have hammer whatever decision we make. I want to put forth a VCA analysis regarding the flip, or if we no lynch a general VCA state.

Titus · Post Post #934 (isolation #52) » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:54 pm

In post 925, Elbirn wrote:For the record, we are not no lynching. Fucking no. Set aside the fact that we have two caught scum. There is a fucking votestealer in play. I'm pretty sure this is actually lylo. Someone else can do the mathz. I think there's 8 alive? 3 scum, and a vote less Townie? If we no lynch, then there's nightkill, 7 alive. 3 scum votes versus 3 town votes = scum can force no lunch = scum wins.

Regardless, I die tonight. All the no lynch accomplished then was town having one less vote (mine).

Like, comeon.

The math is that scum cannot have a 2 shot vote stealer or the game is over more than likely.

If kthx is town, the only lynch we can pull off the a mislynch? 5 to lynch and 4 vote capable townies...

Remind me why you are conftown. Please.

Titus · Post Post #940 (isolation #53) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:40 am

Who tracked Elbrin?

Titus · Post Post #941 (isolation #54) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:21 am

I am checking my assumptions but if NAR is done right then Aristotle, RBD, Jingle must be the team.

Titus · Post Post #942 (isolation #55) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:29 am

Yes. It's Jingle RBD Ari.

We lynch that pool or no lynch.

Titus · Post Post #949 (isolation #56) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:32 pm

In post 948, Aristophanes wrote:I have theories where the two of us aren't scumbuddies, but you still are actually.

And I cane to a conclusion that KJ is town, so why would I push/vote them?

Ewww...

VOTE: Ari

You need a theory where you're not a scumbuddy?

Titus · Post Post #951 (isolation #57) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:46 pm

In post 950, killerjester wrote:Wait guys listen to this.

The sheer numbers willing to lynch Aris lead me to believe he's actually town.

Shocker right?

Now, how many people have actually voted him but for me...

Yeah, that's not town resistance. This is FoS buddy vote town.

Titus · Post Post #954 (isolation #58) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:07 pm

In post 953, Aristophanes wrote:Lynch me if you like. I guarantee there will have to be at least two scum on my wagon since it seems 3/6 possible votes are scum and 5 are needed to lynch.

Think about PoE if I am town though, have it brewing, because I want town to win this and will only lie down and take it if it actually helps us.

We've gotta be able to at least take out one scum and ruin this streak of theirs.

So, @Everyone

If I were to flip scum, what would it tell you?
If I were to flip town, what would that tell you?

At best, you are paying zero attention.

The game's at mylo.

Also, why are you asking about how we'd feel if you flipped scum? That should be a zero possibility from your perspective.

Titus · Post Post #967 (isolation #59) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:36 pm

Now we're coming to the realization that I had a few pages ago. #966 is precisely why I pushed for an Ari lynch with RBD and Jingle. Both scumread him. Both had trouble articulating why, sometimes with direct questioning. Kthx and KJ both refuse to vote Ari, despite articulating they suspect him.

I do think Jingle is scum and they went for the fast play here. To do that though, they needed two town bodies dead. The first target was me because I was the jailkeeper. This winds up as a shot on d3x. They then tried to control the lufan shot by redirecting the kill onto killerjester. Given Killer Jester's scumread, she makes a good target for a quick shot to win the game.

Think, if Killerjester

had

died, scum would have won the game. We could not get the votes.

===

The alternative scenarios are as follows

D3x swapped with RBD. Thus, lufan's kill hit d3x. Scum also targeted RBD. Thus double kill. [Likelihood:2 %]
D3x swapped with RBD protecting him from a kill from lufan. Killer Jester was sent for the kill or was the killer's target. Kthx lies here in this scenario. Ari/Jingle are the other two scums in this scenario. There's still a MAJOR problem with the Heartless/flames situation unless RBD was never vanillaized as well and received feedback he was. [Likelihood... I can't see it]
D3x swapped with Titus. Kthx is telling the truth. Scum have a hidden roleblocker and blocked Lufan or co-opted my jailkeep. This same method is how Heartless died. [Best out of the alternatives... still does not explain Heartless/Flames]

Titus · Post Post #970 (isolation #60) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:39 pm

@RBD, lynching Ari is the best move. I see two scenarios mainly. Both have Ari as scum.

Ari flips scum.
Scum shoot Elbrin/lufan/me.
We no lynch.
Scum shoot another.
Lylo is RBD/Jingle/KJ/Kthx +1 countdown.

KJ has a tested ability AND the town does not need to rally as many people.

Titus · Post Post #971 (isolation #61) » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:55 pm

P.s. I am town, so I can prove myself by dying. (A)

Titus · Post Post #975 (isolation #62) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:34 am

Who is Jerry?

Titus · Post Post #977 (isolation #63) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:22 am

Ugh...Elbrin is supposedly conftown? His posts give me the geebies.

Titus · Post Post #985 (isolation #64) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:01 pm

@RBD, You're the driver in any scenario where they are town. That's plainly obvious to me.

I find you're avoiding voting Aristo just as much as they are.

If Elbrin is truly conftown rather than town by popular opinion, walk me through it like I'm five. You mentioned a tracker track but *shrug* explain please...

Titus · Post Post #987 (isolation #65) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:26 pm

Regardless of whether Ari is lynched first, you would still be there choice to mislynch and given my paranoia (assuming you are town), I would still be alive. I am not seeing why you are reluctant to vote him.

Titus · Post Post #992 (isolation #66) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:22 pm

@RBD, we lynch the obvious scum first. Obsessing with the redirector does nothing unless you are assuming Maine's wifomed the number of shots we have and I am playing along. You, Jingle are both Vanilla. Elbrin's supposed to die. Lucian is essentially vanilla. FYPOV, what is there to redirect? Why not lynch the obvious scum?

Titus · Post Post #995 (isolation #67) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:08 pm

If you're actually worried about following days, you vote the obvscum so we get a coordinated town. Whoever fails to bus is scum.

Titus · Post Post #996 (isolation #68) » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:08 pm

I am not deciding between you and KJ today.

Titus · Post Post #1001 (isolation #69) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:45 pm

@RBD, Presume there is no Morty and that Elbrin is a named townie... then what?

Titus · Post Post #1002 (isolation #70) » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:12 pm

In post 1000, Jingle wrote:The concern is that kthx, you, aristo is a possibility.
In which case I lose if we lynch kj today. Kthx and you both going hard after a kj lynch supports that.

And yeah, aristo claiming he had more shots than he did and "vanillaizing" a partner N1 is most certainly a possibility.

If he flips two shot, its something I have to worry less about.

Jingle just vote Ari. That will be more telling. Everyone thinks he is scum but no one wants to vote him.

Titus · Post Post #1006 (isolation #71) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:08 am

RBD, you want me to consider voting KJ tomorrow, Vote Ari today.

Titus · Post Post #1009 (isolation #72) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:34 am

Dude, RIP is not in this game.

Also, why are you only trying now when I get a wagon going on you?

Why are you not railing at the mod for breaking NAR if town?

Titus · Post Post #1011 (isolation #73) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:17 am

Oh and one concern I have about Elbrin I can say now. Detecting a flavor of one of the scrums was a fake claim in Signs and Void.

Titus · Post Post #1015 (isolation #74) » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:32 pm

@Ari, Team Mafia game.

@Jingle, Walk me through it.

Titus · Post Post #1029 (isolation #75) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:14 pm

RBD, good scum have good narratives. In Signs and Void, I left myself a VTish fakeclaiming in my narrative. People bought it but for singer.

Titus · Post Post #1032 (isolation #76) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:22 am

In post 1030, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 1029, Titus wrote:RBD, good scum have good narratives. In Signs and Void, I left myself a VTish fakeclaiming in my narrative. People bought it but for singer.

I still have a super hard time buying that a bus driver decided to strongly crumb a searching neighborizer that's specific target may or may not actually even exist out the gate. Especially in the scenario that Aristo is floating, but I think most of us have him as somewhere in our scum group to start either way.

And if scum are told no Morty exists and no neighborizer either? This is a game where scum have to be given fake claims.

You can keep trying to sell me a lynch I don't want to decide between or we can vote scum we agree on. I don't see why this is so hard for you.

Titus · Post Post #1033 (isolation #77) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:23 am

If you're town, Ari's flip should clear you anyway.

Titus · Post Post #1037 (isolation #78) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:42 am

Ok. Elbrin is conf downtown.

Titus · Post Post #1039 (isolation #79) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:57 am

Lufan, we can possibly verify RBD's alignment by eliminating Ari

Titus · Post Post #1042 (isolation #80) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:57 am

Why not KJ?

Titus · Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:20 pm

Ari who is your scum team?

Why are you excluding me and lufan?

Titus · Post Post #1047 (isolation #82) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:48 pm

Then why aren't you voting Kthx?

Titus · Post Post #1049 (isolation #83) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:11 pm

RBD, I think Ari is scum regardless of your alignment. He could be hammer posturing on kthx, bad at scum with you, etc. An Ari flip where he is not vanillaizer scum firms you. A vanillaizer flip suggests but does not confirm you are town. You could be avoiding voting Ari because you are scum with him. All rational roads lead to Ari scum.

You are not defending Ari and refuse to vote him. That's a neon flag you're scum with Ari if your last comments about kthx Ari have any weight.

Titus · Post Post #1051 (isolation #84) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:58 pm

Because I am town and I am not voting kthx today.

Titus · Post Post #1052 (isolation #85) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:01 pm

Aristotle is scum and thus will not vote. KJ voting kthx should suggest they are unaligned. Elbrin voting him just means you persuaded him better than me.

Titus · Post Post #1054 (isolation #86) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:21 pm

RBD, I would want to see how that happened. Short of a miracle, Ari is the only one I want wagoned.

Titus · Post Post #1059 (isolation #87) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:14 pm

In post 1056, Elbirn wrote:How does Aris flip cement rbd as town or scum? If ari is scum, he could have cooperated with town by targeting a town-rbd or a town-jingle no?

It's not 100% perfect but if Ari doesn't flip 2 shot vanillaizer, at least one of Jingle RBD must be scum as they both couldn't be vanillaized even in a broken NAR world. Probably both. Given RBD's refusal to vote Ari, my suspicion would go there.

If Ari flips 2 shot scum vanillaizer, it suggests that Ari is not aligned with RBD/Jingle because Ari would put up more of a fight if forced to vanillaize his buddies.

Ari could still be scum with RBD/Jingle and they could be pretending to be vanilla (possible given broken NAR) but much less likely.

Titus · Post Post #1060 (isolation #88) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:14 pm

Hmm, I was not expecting Ari to vote here.... interesting... but it does fit within a RBD/Ari/Jingle universe...

Titus · Post Post #1061 (isolation #89) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 pm

If Ari scum refuses to vote, it would likely have left me to decide between Jingle/RBD and Kthx/KJ most likely... but Ari doesn't take that move... why?

Titus · Post Post #1068 (isolation #90) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:20 pm

In post 1062, Elbirn wrote:Not certain I understand your musings titus. Aris vote read like a bad bus to me.

Why bus here though?

Ari would know I am town and have zero incentive to bus since I have openly stated that I have zero intent to resolve RBD/Jingle versus KJ/Kthx.

Without my vote, town could never get a lynch off. If kthx flips scum, the presumption would be that he bussed. The better play in his spot is to be a wish washy obstinate asshole and take his lynch tomorrow, yet he does the decidedly sub optimal thing and busses.... I don't think so.

I am firmly in the Jingle RBD Ari camp atm.

Titus · Post Post #1069 (isolation #91) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:21 pm

In post 1067, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 1065, Aristophanes wrote:Call me dumb or whatever, but can you gimme that bilded part again?Are you saying Lufan is town or scum here and what does that have to do with my own alignment?

Im saying im pretty sure lufan votes me with you flipping scum. With kthnx flipping scum I think lufan actually will rethink things.

Titus wrote:Hmm, I was not expecting Ari to vote here.... interesting... but it does fit within a RBD/Ari/Jingle universe...

So we are going back to a universe where Aristo/Jingle are both scum? How does that one work again?

You aren't vanilla. That's how it works.

Titus · Post Post #1071 (isolation #92) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:59 pm

Such roles are deactivated in Lylo.

RBD, you are not vanilla in that setup. You changed yourself with KJ being the most likely.

Titus · Post Post #1072 (isolation #93) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:01 pm

Btw, you're arguing the equivalent of hated never existing because Lylo f2f. Hateds tend to lose hated in Lylo.

Titus · Post Post #1073 (isolation #94) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:02 pm

F2f is makes Lylo autoloss. Dunno what I originally had. Damn auto correct.

Titus · Post Post #1074 (isolation #95) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:11 am

RBD, if lufan would vote you after an Air flip, we need to remove Air scum today and pray our protective roles lied and duck things up for scum. The lufan issue will always exist. It's a lame copout. If you think Ari is scum, vote him.

Titus · Post Post #1078 (isolation #96) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:36 pm

Yeah RBD, you try to sell your wagon as inevitable to scum, who you know will not bus and you doubtcast me at the same time to get this kthx wagon through rather than vote Ari who you also think is scum.

Lufan held off voting for quite some time. There are some scenarios where I would vote you immediately as well.

Titus · Post Post #1080 (isolation #97) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:24 pm

D3x swaps with me.
Kthx gets legit result.
D3x dies because scum tried to kill me.

I try to jail kj.
You swap kj with you or lufan.
Thus you or lufan is in jail, meaning no nk of you.

How does lufan not kill you in your scenario?

Titus · Post Post #1082 (isolation #98) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:41 pm

None of those explain the NAR problem.

Titus · Post Post #1084 (isolation #99) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:16 pm

The NAR problem is frankly how did Jingle steal kthx vote?

Why won't you vote Ari if convinced he is scum?

You can either line up the kills or fix the NAR problem but not both.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:29 pm

I already fucking did. Jingle RBD Ari.

You never intended to bus. I am not voting kthx.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:30 pm

That's fucking gibberish. You are fabricating an ooo which is not allowed. This is an NAR game.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:41 pm

You swapped KJ with you or lufan. I already said this 10 fucking times.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:49 pm

Tri bus is possible. NAR has not been resolved in your scenario. Jingle CANNOT act if Ari vanillaizer him.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:50 pm

While it is possible kthx is scum, that NAR must be resolved to conclude anything.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:51 pm

Fuck this.

Mod define Natural Action Resolution.

Titus · Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:58 pm

RBD, I am not concluding anything at all until.I resolve NAR. If that does not happen until deadline, so be it. I am not going to throw this game.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:59 am

No. It does not RBD. A vanillaizer modifies a player and thus would go before Jingle.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 am

In post 1101, Elbirn wrote:...so either aristophanes is lying about vanillaizing jingle, or the vote stealer is someone else?

Yes. Jingle claimed vanillaized so if Ari is lying, so is Jingle. For that theory to work, lufan kill must be "stopped" which means lufan or RBD must be the last scum.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:55 am

If lufan tried to shoot RBD, he should be dead. The only way that does not happen is if lufan never shot RBD, d3x swapped with RBD and thus kthx lying, or RBD was swapped with KJ who is safe bc she is in jail.

If d3x swapped with RBD, then kthx is lying about his result and thus scum.

Kthx scum does not explain Heartless/Flames/d3x all town.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:09 pm

Mental vla

My good friend just got sent to the hospital. I play mafia as a distraction but if I seem distracted please deal with it.

X-post all games.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:28 pm

RBD, you don't place invent with nullify vote though. Jingle's vote steal wasn't an invention given to him but an ability they had at the start of the night.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:33 pm

No. You are the bus driver.
Ari did not vanillaize.
Jingle is vote thief.

That theory works with the facts. It is possible that theory is wrong. Ari is scum to me under either theory.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Stop trying to sell me a bill of goods and put forth your own full answer.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:58 pm

Wrong Elbrin, one less townie to corral. It's hard to get all to agree. Plus we have Lylo reads to go through. One of kthx or Ari must be scum based off this vote pattern.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:01 pm

RBD, stop repeating yourself. KJ is in jail and thus protected or lucky scum swap.

You are right that both could be. You reluctance to vote Ari and the day 2 shenanigans leads me to you as scum.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:45 pm

The order you posted should only trigger if there is a conflict between actions.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:50 pm

In post 1123, Elbirn wrote:UNVOTE:

Wait hang on

If kthx is telling the truth
Then d3x is confirmed for swapping with titus.

If d3x swapped with titus
and lufan is telling the truth about his target
then rbd is only not dead due to scum interference.

If kthx is lying
Then d3x swapped with rbd, kthx lies to set up rbd, scum either no killed or targeted killer jester?

If lufan is lying
...why is he lying?

Zzzzzzz

TLdr if kthx tells the truth, then Lufan or RBD is scum. Most likely RBD Ari.
If kthx lied, kthx is scum, thus suggesting kthx is scum as well.

Kthx and Ari are possible lynches tomorrow as it is impossible to make a setup without either of them as scum IMO.

Kthx RBD are also in a setup where one of them must be scum. If kthx told the truth, then scum acted to save RBD. If kthx lied, he is scum.

Titus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm

I am going to play a very cautious game tomorrow if Ari does not flip today.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:33 am

RBD, quit throwing mud.

NAR states that any action that would prevent another action goes first. So it is still possible that lufan and KJ were swapped thus no kill. Second, KJ and you being swapped is still possible as JK could resolve before bussing. Either JK resolves before or after a bus and thus you are not clearing yourself by night action. On my first site, JK resolved before every single other action. In fact, most sites have JK submit target during the day. MS is the only unique one in that regard.

Right now, I want to see if we can force team's to emerge rather than clearing one person. If you are town, you should have zip to worry about.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:35 am

You and kthx are on different sides to me. That much is plainly apparent. I would have less problem following you if you could resolve NAR and how the fuck Heartless imploded on flames. You are not giving those answers, the ones I need, so I am left with two possible scenarios which do not explain everything.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:42 am

Elbrin, that post meant kthx and RBD were on opposite sides to each other for reasons you mentioned.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:26 am

Ok, Ari you can drop the act.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:24 pm

You can taunt us as obvious scum.

P.S. If you are town, you should be raging at the mod for a mod error right now.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:28 pm

Jingle claimed vanillaized, lufan would have claimed vanillaized so your plan requires both of them to be scum. Plus, why would they redirect you onto themselves when they could neutralize any town player. Nope. That did not happen.

If you are town, this mod does not get NAR.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:32 pm

If you flip scum, I am going to have to hold off my innate desire to turbo lynch RBD.

When I say mod, I mean whoever processed the night actions.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:38 pm

Yeah Ari is scum, KJ hammer had me a bit worried.

Titus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:42 pm

Kthx would have been cheering his ass of if we were wrong.

Titus · Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:05 am

RBD, I don't think anyone should feel ashamed for this loss, and the scum team played well.

Titus · Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:52 pm

In post 1198, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 1196, Jingle wrote:
In post 1194, RIP wrote:Lol what a horrible team.
How was jingle alive so late? Wow
We lost this game the moment I protected elbirn and died. Not sure if I was targeted or I stopped the kill with my death.
<MVP town.

Honestly we didn't want to kill you because we knew you were a mislynch waiting to happen. Frankly the worst thing town did this game was let me dictate actions on n1. The game wasn't broken by mass claim, but you let me make mass claim a force for scum.

d3x targeting us was supposed to be the failsafe against roleblock/redirect.

Yeah... this game had bugs.