Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[pistachi0n]

/confirm

[pistachi0n]

Oh I forgot, cult's not possible.

I'm catching up, why is cult not possible?

[pistachi0n]

The argument about whether or not SK is scum is a stupid argument. A win condition incompatible with town is not town.

Titus and SilverWolf looks TVT but Titus is the slightly scummier.

VOTE: Rob

[pistachi0n]

Trying too hard? That's utter shit. Applying that to Rob when he's asking questions and not to sw is wtf. Your Ari attack also makes no sense if SW is null.

Why do you think pistachi0n's vote is on Rob then? You don't see how scum would benefit from looking town in the beginning of the game when it's easiest to 'scumhunt'? I didn't see a reason for Prolapsed_Brain to draw fire from Rob13 this early in the game. It's an easy push to make and feels like probing for the sake of probing, rather than probing with results in mind.

For the record, my vote is on Rob because he's saying a lot without saying anything at all. Generic statements about the game, all this stuff about how he is as a player, etc.

[pistachi0n]

Rob, 124 is an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about.

[pistachi0n]

Rob, 124 is an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about.

That's me questioning Titus' explanation of how he got a read on me, which I didn't buy. How is that not relevant?

Because you were staring the obvious. The point is, unless it's multiball, scum are never genuine in their reads no matter how good at lying they are, and the scum reads of townies get accused of being fake as well.

[pistachi0n]

How much time do we have left? The Rob wagon isn't gaining anything and Titus has been looking scummier to me with recent interactions.

[pistachi0n]

@pistachi0n: Explain with quotes why you're moving off me and onto Titus, please.

I'm not, yet, I was thinking about it, but then I looked at the count and realized we have 17 days left.

[pistachi0n]

I actually am starting to townread Rob more, though, he's been one of the most thorough players and I appreciate that. I still think a lot of his earlier posts were fluff, but he's improved, I enjoyed reading the Titus/Rob conversation.

VOTE: Flubbernugget, all of his posts are terrible.

[pistachi0n]

@Titus

- GTMH = Gun to my head, yes.

@pistachi0n

, what's terrible about Flubbernugget's posts?

Little content, a few assertions with no explanation. He's coasting hard.

[pistachi0n]

Granted, I haven't played with Flubbernugget before, but how long are you going to maintain "that's just a Flubbernugget tell?" It still doesn't make him town.

[pistachi0n]

Granted, I haven't played with Flubbernugget before, but how long are you going to maintain "that's just a Flubbernugget tell?" It still doesn't make him town.

No, it doesn't. It makes him null. In every game I've played with him, he hasn't been very useful.

@Flubber: It was multiple games; I don't remember exactly which ones. It's been a year. I do read games that I don't play in sometimes, so it may even be a game I wasn't in. My memory isn't good enough to recall exactly which ones I'm drawing this meta from.

So how are we supposed to read Flubber at all? Wait for power roles to pick up the slack?

[pistachi0n]

When I've played with ASP, he's inactive in the beginning of the game but gets better day 2 and beyond. That's what I'm expecting.

[pistachi0n]

The part about warning that he's going to look scummy is especially scummy and I see that more often from scum. I don't really agree that the rest of it is scummy. Ari is a weak scumread right now.

[pistachi0n]

Granted, I haven't played with Flubbernugget before, but how long are you going to maintain "that's just a Flubbernugget tell?" It still doesn't make him town.

No, it doesn't. It makes him null. In every game I've played with him, he hasn't been very useful.

@Flubber: It was multiple games; I don't remember exactly which ones. It's been a year. I do read games that I don't play in sometimes, so it may even be a game I wasn't in. My memory isn't good enough to recall exactly which ones I'm drawing this meta from.

So how are we supposed to read Flubber at all? Wait for power roles to pick up the slack?

As a rule of thumb if you have a null read on me I'm town and if I'm scum I've already been lynched or crosskilled

I'm definitely more confident with my votes on you now.

[pistachi0n]

@Rob
That's kind of weird, "us" is stronger than listing names under the word "Town".

@Silverwolf
A Miller claiming Day1 is probably more likley to be true, because a Town Miller would want to let everyone know as soon as possible, while scum would probably use it to save themselves if a cop claims.
If scum did claim Day1, then it would be odd to see that they survived the Night, supposedly being conf. Town, and people may end up questioning the claim.

I don't like this. What if a scum wanted to shake up the meta and claimed miller day 1? You say then it would be odd if they survived the night, okay, so what if a scum wanted to shake up the meta by not killing a townie that claimed miller? It shouldn't be that easy to be conf town.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: wgeurts

I don't like that he hasn't placed a vote. I don't like 567 where he excuses himself from the game by saying he's going to work on keeping records and building up associatives. I don't like him wanting a flavor claim. I wasn't a huge fan of 20x100 either.

[pistachi0n]

Wg's town.

You sound very certain.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: wgeurts

I don't like that he hasn't placed a vote. I don't like 567 where he excuses himself from the game by saying he's going to work on keeping records and building up associatives. I don't like him wanting a flavor claim. I wasn't a huge fan of 20x100 either.

What do you think of him now that he's placed a vote and made a case on Titus? What do you think of the fact that PB and Heir haven't made votes or done much of anything this game?

What do you think of the other players in this game? I'd like to hear more from you.

I agree that Titus was being overly defensive at first, I don't think that's a scum tell. Another part of the case was that she was calling people who don't want to do what she wants to do stupid, and that's something I've mostly seen from aggressive townies, although I'm willing to look at the meta he referenced. The part where Titus says "Those who disagree are scummy" I admit that's scummy.

Wgeurts mentions in the case that self-meta should never be given any stock, well, yeah, but that's something enough people say that it's null.

Anyway, I'm still scum-reading Wgeurts. I think Titus is scummier than SW, but it's not a strong scumread.

I'd rather not get lurkers on Day 1, that prevents us from gaining information. I'll look at PB and Hierima tomorrow. I wish they'd talk more but I don't think that's grounds for a D1 lynch.

[pistachi0n]

I am willing to sacrifice myself to prove Titus is scum

Why would lynching you prove Titus is scum? Your actions seem TvT.

[pistachi0n]

I am willing to sacrifice myself to prove Titus is scum

Why would lynching you prove Titus is scum? Your actions seem TvT.

They do?
Willing to explain?

The real burden of explanation is on Silver Wolf for saying that if she flips down it will automatically prove Titus is scum. That makes no sense. Granted, I'm not 100% sure it's town vs town, but two payers getting in an argument and strongly scumreading each other does not mean they are in opposing factions. I think it is likely town vs town because both of them seem to have very strong convictions about their reads on each other and genuine frustration.

[pistachi0n]

I am willing to sacrifice myself to prove Titus is scum

Why would lynching you prove Titus is scum? Your actions seem TvT.

Because my flip will confirm me as town and that should give my words more weight and will show that Titus's push on me all game is bad and wrong.

It will confirm that Titus was wrong. It will not confirm that Titus is scum.

[pistachi0n]

I actually am not liking how wgeurts has done nothing BUT tunnel Titus.

This observation from Titus's in-game nemesis makes Silver Wolf seem town.

[pistachi0n]

There are several posts I want to comment on, but they are direct questions to specific people, so I will hold off.

...Why are you holding off on asking people questions?

[pistachi0n]

@SilverWolf re 924

I see what you're getting at with 907. But I don't understand how 885 is defending PB.

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

[pistachi0n]

For the way he was softly scumreading Titus on D1 but distanced himself from the wagon on D2.

[pistachi0n]

Okay, so sell me. Why should I vote him over you?
If I recall, you were defending Titus day 1, to an extent, right?

I thought Titus and Silver Wolf were in the same faction. I did say that if one if them were scum, it was Titus.

But now I know for a fact Titus was scum. Which makes the interactions with PB more important.

[pistachi0n]

Reads of other players from towniest to scummiest--Vedith, GuiltyLion, ASP, vonflare, Flubbernugged, PB (replacement? will re-evaluate)

[pistachi0n]

Ummm, GL is confirmed town though?

Ok, switch you two. I'm pretty sure you're both town.

[pistachi0n]

As the ONLY one on Rob, and someone who so quickly backed away when it wasn't going anywhere, mild scumread on Pistach by this point.

I left the wagon because further posts by Rob made him appear townier. Also, even if I had backed away only because the wagon was going nowhere--is that unreasonable? I'd rather my vote count. If there are other competing wagons, I want my vote on whichever one is scummier.

And you argue that you hadn't been coasting? You're scum-reading Flubber here for doing what you were doing.

My posts were better than Flubber's.

Conflicting reads on Titus, bouncing back and forth

Yes, I was genuinely unsure how I felt about Titus and was trying to sort it out in my mind.

[pistachi0n]

How do you suppose?

Flubbernugget was trolling and not even bothering to give half-ass explanations on his reads.

instead of being the only vote on a Rob wagon you could see wasn't taking off (despite Boonskies' support), you act as the only vote on Flubber? How does that vote count for more than it would on Rob?

I thought there was a chance other people would join on Flubber.

In answer to question 1 and 2: ...I just didn't think Titus was scum. I was pretty consistent that I thought they were both town because they seemed so passionate and frustrated. But, like, if you had put a gun to my head and told me one of them was scum and I had to choose, I would have chosen Titus because her arguments seemed slightly more composed and slightly less shrill.

[pistachi0n]

My role: I can target one person every night and see what conspiracies they believe in.

GL is probably the cop.

Vedith's conspiracy specifically mentioned aliens.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[pistachi0n]

I meant to type Flubber.

VOTE: Flubber

[pistachi0n]

I think he was lying.

[pistachi0n]

Where does he say he knew there was a JK?

[pistachi0n]

I'm assuming if Flubber is scum, he got lucky with the kill.

[pistachi0n]

So here are the flavors I've received:

GuiltyLion believes the government has been using Facebook and similar services to spy on citizens. He also believes they're trying to kill him to silence him.

^Consistent with what he's told us.

Vedith believes there are aliens experimenting on everyone in the town. He also believes they're trying to silence anyone talking about them.

^Suggests to me a pro-town role to counteract alien stuff.

Flubbernugget believes there is an evil consortium of banks controlling the entire world from the shadows, killing anyone to further their plots.

^??????

[pistachi0n]

Yes. Compare Flubber's flavor to ETL's.

[pistachi0n]

ETL thought the world was controlled by an evil computer. Flubber thinks banks. Both are focused on broader conspiracies, as opposed to alien-specific or individual (they're out to get *me*)

[pistachi0n]

What? I never said there are 2 scum. I said there is 1 scum. And it is you.

[pistachi0n]

Pista's push on him makes no sense but I don't know if it comes from desperate scum or confused town. Pistachi0n why aren't you considering Vedith as 3rd party scum?

I've considered it. But why would someone anti-alien also be anti-town?

[pistachi0n]

Like if we're gonna randomly flavorspec then I wouldn't be surprised if Vedith is a SK who is so afraid of aliens invading the town that he's killing everyone he's suspicious of.

That's true.

I was aware we were looking for third party scum. But I thought someone specifically against aliens would be aligned with town--I still thought Flubber was scum.

But this is convincing.

UNVOTE:

[pistachi0n]

@Pist, what night did you check me?

2

[pistachi0n]

Vedith is lying, I have contradictory information.

VOTE: vedith

[pistachi0n]

That's all you have to say?

You know I got your conspiracy right. If you were town, you would have gone along with it and claimed it was part of your town role.

[pistachi0n]

Vedith is lying, I have contradictory information

What is the contradictory information? Share it now because this is MYLO

I already shared it.

The conspiracy flavor I received does not match what Vedith says his conspiracy flavor is.

[pistachi0n]

I don't get what you mean though? I have no conspiracy flavor in my fluff!
I don't understand where you get this from?
Unless GL and Flubber confirm theirs it's utter bollocks.

Everyone has conspiracy flavor. We came to a consensus about that earlier.

[pistachi0n]

Does anyone have any questions? I think we should be voting now.

[pistachi0n]

It looks like your only intent is to cast shade on me.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah, now that I think of it, the bomb claim sounds like a bad attempt to warn us.