Mini 1837: Family Mafia (GAME OVER)

[SirCakez]

VOTE: camn
WAKE UP SHEEPLE

[SirCakez]

VOTE: nacho
The sheeple should go here instead of camn. Camn is just an innocent farmer I believe.

[SirCakez]

Because it seems nacho is more interested in making kraska look like scum then actually finding scum
Camn is probably innocent because her posting is really loose. She's more uptight as scum.

[SirCakez]

i was about to sheep you because i'm getting da vibez from nacho but

I'm not really seeing that? Like I'm not really seeing how he's trying to make her look scummy outright, just maybe a bit too defensive if that makes sense?

Aren't those basically the same thing?

[SirCakez]

I mean like "too defensive" implies scumminess

[SirCakez]

I mean like "too defensive" implies scumminess

Or panicky town.

VOTE: Spicy

Fun wagons are fun.

"too" is the key word
It's like if I said "too laid back" or "too lurky", that generally means scumreading

Wait, Cakeboy wasn't making a serious vote?

Cakeboy, is your vote serious?

also sorry i thought you'd respond in one post

Yes it was serious

[SirCakez]

Because it seems nacho is more interested in making kraska look like scum then actually finding scum
Camn is probably innocent because her posting is really loose. She's more uptight as scum.

There was not a place where I misrepresented kraska or made her look bad; the purpose of my questioning was not to "make her look bad", it was to figure out what she was driving at with her camn questioning.

The only place where she felt I misinterpreted her was when I said she was "worried", which I don't think was unreasonable or anywhere close to it, but feel free to disagree if you'd like. Why do you think Camn is town now (if it's just the uptight thing do you really think that not being uptight for one day is significant? could you give me an example of her being uptight as scum)? Why did you think she was scum before?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67110
Because of the vibe I got from skimming this morning.

I mean like "too defensive" implies scumminess

Too defensive implies odd behavior, which is worthy of questioning because either it's something I don't understand, something kraska isn't expressing well enough, or its kraska awkwardly faking something for some reason.

"Too defensive" is also something that I didn't say or imply; they're words that you put into my mouth... why, exactly?

Look at this scumbutt
I never said he said "too defensive", I was talking to gigabyte lol.

guys
dont lynch me
I am masons with gendaberry
i promise
~Dwlee

VOTE: spicyjalapenoknocks

jk
VOTE: nacho

[SirCakez]

I don't have any other scum reads ATM
I think Kraska, gigabyte, and camn are town

[SirCakez]

you townread kraska already?

have you played w/ her before or what

I think Kraska, gigabyte, and camn are town

Reasons?

Kraska because Nacho's push on her is terrible. If Nacho was town then I'd reevaluate this. I have played with Kraska before a little bit.
The way gigabyte interacted with me felt town
Camn I already talked about

[SirCakez]

Kraska because Nacho's push on her is terrible. If Nacho was town then I'd reevaluate this.

Pre-flip associations oh goodie

[SirCakez]

What's the new hate on with planning pre flip?
I mean cake is drunk and all but this is hate on the idea. And if we're hatin on ideas in here I've got a hydra beggin for it

Err when he's voting nacho the intent is pretty blindingly clear. He thinks nacho is scum and it isn't a bus therfore town.

It's drunk but the logic itself is whatever

I know that, but unless he's close to 100% sold on Nacho-scum I fail to see why using that as a reason to townread kraska isn't completely stupid. Like you could have a read on a single player and use that to get a read on every other player in the game if you wanted but you wouldn't because that would be ridiculous. Doing it with one player is just as bad in terms of logic.

I am close to 100% sold on Nacho scum.

No no the question is why

isn't

dram a good lynch.

You look at that iso and tell me.

Because it's dram and his ISO always sucks?

Wait I'm confused
Who was cake refering to when he was talking about defencivness? I thought he said nacho's push on me was making me look defencive/scummy?

That is what I was saying

Wait I'm confused
Who was cake refering to when he was talking about defencivness? I thought he said nacho's push on me was making me look defencive/scummy?

He equated defensiveness with scumminess.

That's my point.

Gigabyte said Nacho was trying to make Kraska look too defensive, rather then scummy
The nature of being "too" something (too laidback, too lurky, etc.) implies scumminess, so I pointed that out and he agreed and voted Nacho.
I agree defensiveness in itself isn't scummy.

[SirCakez]

This post is too wordy and too stretching.

I bet others would agree, too.

Your face is too wordy and stretching

Because it's dram and his ISO always sucks?

don't you meta at me boy I'll have none of that nonsense

Meta is so good though :/

[SirCakez]

lmao

[SirCakez]

Spyre could be scum

[SirCakez]

Cakes bringing the hard hitting journalism.

You've got two heads producing that. Yes i want you lynched. Would i be shocked if you flipped town? No. Would i cry tears of regret? No.

This nacho wagon is boring. Too boring in fact. But just the right level of boring that it will fester until day end and then lo and nehold there we are

It's on scum, not sure why you're complaining

[SirCakez]

Nacho's posts at the start seeked to actively misrep Kraska, then when confronted with this he proceeded to misrep me then started dodging the game.
That summarizes it pretty succinctly.

[SirCakez]

The nature of being "too" something (too laidback, too lurky, etc.) implies scumminess, so I pointed that out and he agreed and voted Nacho.

Someone acting differently than you expect means that it's perfectly normal (and the purpose of the game even) to prod at it. Someone acting differently doesn't mean that they are suspicious, especially when you don't have any familiarity with a player that's acting differently.

As for your "I'm close to 100% sure that Nacho is scum"... You've played with me a few times but not many times at all, you haven't demonstrated any unique strength in reading me (I remember you being paranoid as hell in Gumball of me as town and I remember you defending me in Musical when I was scum), the game isn't yet three days old... don't you think that you should probably dial back the confidence a couple of notches?

In what world is "too defensive" something used not to describe scummy behavior?
I don't understand the relevance of my past with you, that's pointless shade casting. I don't need experience with you to have a strong read on you.

Look at this scumbutt
I never said he said "too defensive", I was talking to gigabyte lol.

Gigabyte said that it looked like I was making kraska look too defensive.
Your response was that too defensive = scumminess.
If "too defensive" = "scummy", then "making kraska look scummy" and "making kraska look too defensive" are equivalent statements.
If you didn't agree with his point, then it makes no sense for you to respond to his point the way you did as opposed to saying something along the lines of "I disagree with your point!".

I don't understand the point of this post at all
Yes I think being too defensive is scummy

[SirCakez]

Nacho's posts at the start seeked to actively misrep Kraska, then when confronted with this he proceeded to misrep me then started dodging the game.
That summarizes it pretty succinctly.

Let's actually look at my posts against Kraska again:

Oh I didn't notice that nacho hadn't posted either. I thought she listed all the people who didn't post on her "shortlist"
Well then, care to explain why I'm part of your selective list camn and why you're okay with me being lynched? Looks like culling to me if you ask me

What sort of answer are you expecting here?
Do you think that camn is planning on pushing through a lynch on you because you are on her Day 1 shortlist?

I think we can both agree that I'm not misrepping kraska by asking her questions. At least, I hope we can both agree on this point.

That's not what I'm talking about, I was pointing out that it doesn't look random to me like she's saying
I'm a newer player so we haven't played together much at all before
And dwlee and cakes look like the easiest pickings out of the playerlist

She said it was almost random, which is different from completely random (and if it was completely random - a dwlee/you/Cakez trio is just as likely as any other so I don't understand your criticism there). She also said that Day 1 is very dynamic, meaning the shortlist she has right now is probably based on feelings, inclinations, isn't yet significant.

I don understand why you're currently worried about her shortlist unless you think she has the intent to follow through with stated reads in the first three pages of the game.

I said that she "criticized" camn's shortlist, which is true.
I also said that she was "worried" about it. Is this the misrep you're talking about? What am I misrepresenting here?

So, AT BEST, your big problem with my exchange with kraska is that I used the word "worried".

Second, to me dodging the game? Because I went less than 24 hours without posting? No.

My big problem with this is your motivations here (misrep wasn't a good term for it). I don't think anything you attacked Kraska for was AI and it looks like a scum trying to fake a push early on onto a player who left themselves open to an easy push. It reminds me of your Waco Kid push in TV Show Characters mafia which just ended.

In what world is "too defensive" something used not to describe scummy behavior?
I don't understand the relevance of my past with you, that's pointless shade casting. I don't need experience with you to have a strong read on you.

Defensiveness isn't a scumtell. Being "too defensive" isn't a scumtell, it's a personality trait.
I never described kraska as "too defensive" or "too anything", I just keep drawing a line between "this is something I am questioning" and "this is something that I find scummy".

And no, I don't imagine you would understand why I'm bringing up your past failures.
When I am nightkilled this game and I flip as town, understand that your approach to me doesn't work. When your approach to someone doesn't work, you need to change how you approach them, you need to try harder not to read them, you need to be more careful with your reads on them so you don't fall flat on your face the next time.

That's something we disagree on
Gigabyte was the one who said you were trying to make kraska look "too defensive", not sure why you're arguing that part with me

Your AtE is not convincing

[SirCakez]

Nah Nacho is still scum, Elyse is prob town

Nacho's responses were so easily fakeable, I don't understand why he's getting townread for it.
Its like textbook Nacho!scum.

[SirCakez]

Also where the fuck is hiplop

Probably lurking out the wagon on his buddy

Do you have anything to add to the dramonic push? I've been uninterested because I don't see how his play has been different from normal dramonic play thus far.

kind of not... i'm kind of strategically sheeping this point in the game state (i.e. following townreads in their pushes that i don't feel are misguided) but i

do

have kind of an almost-actual-for real scumread of my own on dram now so

245 didn't feel like a townpost. like where is the town motivation in taking potshots at someone's townreads if you're not scumreading any of those people? if he disagreed about one of my reads that's one thing, but that's not at all what he said. also him calling it a townbloc was kind of ???, while i was sheeping cakey at the time i didn't really have any intention to get those 4 people to work together because i still feel like i'm sorting everyone at not super happy with all of my reads. i just don't really get how someone reacts to me saying "I have 4 townreads!" the way he did, it was an overreaction to nothing.

also his explanation for it later made no sense and i felt like he didn't even read any of my posts so uh... there's that. i'm kind of shit at explaining gutreads so i don't even know if this is coherent but this is the best way i can put it for now.

also elyse's overblown push feels more like a personality-sort-of-thing to me so i didn't really read it one way or the other personally, i liked the vote at the time because your earlier posts didn't jive well with me for reasons i think i've explained?

i'll admit that i'm not giving the game 100% atm because my brain is kind of mush from irl stuff and it's still early game, my midgame is generally a bit better so i'm not going to be this useless later

one more thing: what's dramonic usually like then? the only people i've played with here are obviously Kraska and House, and also Elyse so i have a general idea of how they play but if this sort of posting is normal for dramonic i'm lost

(this was a kind of long phone post so if you need me to rephrase something more coherently i can do that.... later... much later )

You don't understand dram
this is dram behavior 101 to take potshots at other people's reads

[SirCakez]

It's NAI

[SirCakez]

House your personality isn't scummy at all lol
You always get mostly townread

[SirCakez]

camn vote nacho for delicious nachos

[SirCakez]

After Knocks flips town (Dwlee is busy with school and no idea what Genda is up to, so I don't think their thread dodging is AI) we can lynch Nacho tomorrow yeah?

[SirCakez]

Cakes... I think they are more likely scum then not. But if they ARE town... what happens with them this game? If they play like they are now...they get mislynched later on and probably lose for us. Wtf.
Or..if they are scum...we let them off the hook now...they fiddle through on lurky nonsense then quick hammer town in LYLO. And laugh at us all.

I hate both of those options. We kill them now.
Regardless of alignment we mine their wagon. And we don't have this discussion again tomorrow. And the next day.

I get PLing them but people are acting like they are DEFINITELY scum which I don't think they are.

i really didn't like cakey's 453 tbh. I'm not really getting why he thinks spicy is specifically flipping town here? I can get null or scumreading the slot, but why is it town...?

I at least do agree with the sentiment of not lynching it just yet, as much as i want to quickhammer spicy for fun.

btw is elyse generally a lurker...? because i'm getting the vibe she's just been busy recently, doesn't seem fair to call her a top-tier lurker just because of this game

Because a consensus wagon has sat on them the whole game without any real counter (nacho wagon fell apart quickly, which is also another reason why nacho is scum fyi)

Why did you unvote someone with a garbage iso only to vote another person with a garbage iso?

Because unlike the hydra, hiplop has flown COMPLETELY under the radar.

Duh.

^ is quite accurate and also a reason why I think Knocks is town. Knocks and Hiplop are guilty of essentially the same thing, but Knocks has been wagoned literally the entire game while Hiplop has gone completely ignored.

why are there not 8 votes on sir cakez

Because you haven't even tried to push me beyond a naked vote

[SirCakez]

My big problem with this is your motivations here (misrep wasn't a good term for it). I don't think anything you attacked Kraska for was AI and it looks like a scum trying to fake a push early on onto a player who left themselves open to an easy push. It reminds me of your Waco Kid push in TV Show Characters mafia which just ended.

I never attacked Kraska. I didn't vote Kraska. I didn't say that what I pointed out was alignment indicative; it was different than my expectations which is why I pushed. My push on Waco Kids in TV Show Characters; it happened late game when people were ready for a lynch but didn't like the options before them, and I framed it much like the way that SpyreX is framing the Jalapenos lynch now in that he was lurky, he was underwhelming, he needed to die.

Could you point out some specifics of why you thought the two pushes were similar?

That's something we disagree on
Gigabyte was the one who said you were trying to make kraska look "too defensive", not sure why you're arguing that part with me

Where did I call Kraska scummy? Why did you think that I was calling Kraska scum (or trying to make her look bad since you love your semantics)?

Spoiler:

Oh I didn't notice that nacho hadn't posted either. I thought she listed all the people who didn't post on her "shortlist"
Well then, care to explain why I'm part of your selective list camn and why you're okay with me being lynched? Looks like culling to me if you ask me

What sort of answer are you expecting here?
Do you think that camn is planning on pushing through a lynch on you because you are on her Day 1 shortlist?

That's not what I'm talking about, I was pointing out that it doesn't look random to me like she's saying
I'm a newer player so we haven't played together much at all before
And dwlee and cakes look like the easiest pickings out of the playerlist

She said it was almost random, which is different from completely random (and if it was completely random - a dwlee/you/Cakez trio is just as likely as any other so I don't understand your criticism there). She also said that Day 1 is very dynamic, meaning the shortlist she has right now is probably based on feelings, inclinations, isn't yet significant.

I don understand why you're currently worried about her shortlist unless you think she has the intent to follow through with stated reads in the first three pages of the game.

The second post mainly
The pushes look similar because they are based on similar NAI stuff that you tried to paint as scummy, not because of the time of the push
I do agree that Spyre's framing of the Jalapeno lynch is bad though

[SirCakez]

Scum team is nacho/spyre/hiplop?

[SirCakez]

My two scumreads + a lurker who's avoiding talking about Nacho
Pretty simple

[SirCakez]

I am not enthused by that vote.

This

the ppl in this game make my head hurt

why is camn vote worthy... at all...

why does cakey think he has the scumteam figured out? that's concerning

I feel slow

I feel really confident in my reads this game
It's awesome

[SirCakez]

I'm on camn right now for reasons. I'd also vote Elyse for reasons. I'd also happily remove any of {dram, jalapeno, hiplop} because duh.

The camn vote already provoked some interesting reactions, there may be benefits to *squeezing* the *juice*.

"reasons"

[SirCakez]

Hold up a sec.
Are you telling me elyse is considered a very strong player these days?

Y

No your posting is your own don't even start with me

Hey while I have your attention

I still wanna know what's substantially different between Hiplop and Jalapeno

Spicy is at least letting us know about r/l demands, for one thing.

hiplop is just a snoozefest unless he starts getting pressure.

Turn up the heat and watch him pop like a kernel.

dramonic's been a snoozefest with pressure
let's kill him bud

Nacho is still scum even after reading through that painful arguing
Like look at this garbage. I refuse to believe town!Nacho would make a post like this.

[SirCakez]

what's wrong with it

"dramonic isn't doing anything, let's lynch!"
It's really awful logic

Also what kind of cake are you? This is important.

A green one?

Ok I've reread this. I mean i had to rip off a finger to keep myself focused on different pain but i did it.

Some takeaways:
Cakes is reading a different game. Town, scum who knows but wtf.
I think the simple fact elyse started that nonsense after random nacho rumblings wasnt clearly noted.

This group:
House, zito, nacho, kraska, trobadour

Needs to pick a target and lynch the shit out of it. Repeat for all times.

Let me give a suggestion

VOTE: elyse

I am reading from a different perspective, yours is scum unfortunately

[SirCakez]

Hi ranmaru!
Hiphlop claimed Mason, can you confirm?

[SirCakez]

Reads

:

Townreads: [Giga, Zito, House, Nacho]
Nulls: [Dram, Spy, kraska, Hydra]

Sircakes reads as new, believing in defensiveness being scummy when that isn't alignment indicative. I would expect new town to still believe in that, and feel he is wrong. Yet others follow (Camn #166, Elyse #276), his gambit of hiphop claiming masons reads as townie as well. His push on Nacho is wrong because Nacho wasn't voting/suspecting Kraska, but simply asking a question. I also think he missed Nacho's whole entire Elyse push and when Nacho goes to Dram he foces on that.

A "new" read isn't accurate, I've been playing forum mafia for around a year and a half
Reanalyze me knowing that

[SirCakez]

Ran pls respond

[SirCakez]

House

I don't see the reason to let either of Elyse or Camn live today. How has your read on Nacho developed?

SirCakes

Still townie that is wrong but believes in defensiveness = scummy still for some reason (that I do not know). Still wrong on Nacho, and I feel others have used your push to fuel their own. Still think your gambit on my slot was townie to gain reactions. Think you are wrong to simply condemn Nacho for his Dram vote.

I said this earlier but since you apparently missed it
I don't think defensiveness in itself is scummy
I think there's a line that can be crossed that does make it scummy though

in theory that'd imply a elyse/spicy/dramonic team but unlike cakeboy i can't call the scumteam D1 nor will i ever get close so

I'm pretty sure I'm townreading scum right now but I haven't had the chance to sit down and really

think

. Your differing read on Postie is going to make me want to go there first, I guess.

My initial scumteam guess was probably wrong ftr. I don't think the hiplop slot is scum anymore.

Got it. That's the important part, and I feel he believes it. I think Postie is trying to fake a misunderstanding yet continues to press it.

Cakez, what is your take on this interaction?

I think it's null for Postie
Though I do think she'd be pushing me more for it if she was scum, feels like that sort of thing she'd exploit

[SirCakez]

So actually I get a town vibe from that interaction <.<

[SirCakez]

Dwlee do something

[SirCakez]

I don't want to PL you but I will

[SirCakez]

This Postie wagon is being driven by mislead town
Come back to the light side

[SirCakez]

I have her as a townread!

[SirCakez]

It's in my ISO
Altho the fact she's lurking is degrading it

[SirCakez]

@

Sircakes

, @

Giggles

, @

Kraska

:

Can you guys give me a better understanding of Postie's slot and how she'd play as either alignment. That would help a ton. I don't have as much context as you guys do.

As scum, she likes to nitpick on stupid things and tunnel on them. She's trying to avoid that here and I doubt she would as scum.

[SirCakez]

It's in my ISO
Altho the fact she's lurking is degrading it

All you said was that her posting is more loose and as scum she's uptight.

Is that it?

Yep!
I was buddies with scum camn before, her play doesn't look like this

As scum, she likes to nitpick on stupid things and tunnel on them.

What? No, that's exactly my townplay. It's when I'm

not

tunneling on stupid things that I'm scum.

wat
since when

[SirCakez]

@

Sircakes

:

Have you ever been burned by meta before? What stops Postie or Camn doing something differently then you would expect?

Yes
Nothing really, but I don't think they're the type to fight meta
Which is also meeting
Gah

Even without meta I'd think Postie is town here
Camn maybe not

[SirCakez]

BAD PEOPLE
CAKEZ (?)

Why tho? Just looks like OMGUS a la Elyse.

Ran wtf is the point of all these questions?

[SirCakez]

I'm going to go ahead and help with this wagon, I've already given Spicy a bunch of chances to do something and Nacho isn't happening FFS
VOTE: spicy

[SirCakez]

VOTE: kraska77
I have a guilty lol

[SirCakez]

Kraska/Giga/Nacho scumteam methinks

[SirCakez]

Because reasons
Don't hammer until everyone checks in please
Also yeah avoid L-1

[SirCakez]

Why should I have held the guilty? Knowing how yesterday went...

[SirCakez]

If not giga/nacho then Camn yeah

[SirCakez]

Gigantic, explain your reads on Kraska, Elise, and Dram. Thank you. (I am aware you are waffling on Elise but I want the reasoning)

Kraska is probably the player I'm most familiar with in this playerlist and I

think

I'm pretty good at reading her (and she's tough for most to read imo so). I think her pushing Elyse and being in the RVS spicy-wagon were town-indicators for me because usually (usually) as scum she tends to avoid the bigger conflicts in the gamestate unless it's necessary for her to survive. Her reads feel and developed like typical Kraska reads so I don't really see the issue there. I do have some doubts about her though so she's not a top-townread, if she's scum I have a few tells of mine that I think would catch her anyway so I'm not that paranoid of her.

Because of stuff like this!

[SirCakez]

Postie tf are you doing

[SirCakez]

My scum pool continues to grow....

[SirCakez]

I'm not going to explain why I picked kraska today, but it will make sense later
Now stop fishing pls

[SirCakez]

Disgonnabegud

[SirCakez]

Lel I bet she's desperately searching the wiki for a good fake claim rn

[SirCakez]

I have a guilty on you lmfao
Claim

[SirCakez]

Yeah most likely
There's no way that response was town anyway. A townie here would be eager to try sort out why there's a guilty on them, not to hide info

[SirCakez]

then say it

[SirCakez]

Kraska be like "maybe I can fish out sircakez's role before I die muahahaha"

[SirCakez]

That's sketchy as fuck lmao

[SirCakez]

That too

[SirCakez]

That makes no sense
Why switch yourself with nacho? There was 0 town motivation for that.
Plus most mods don't let bus drivers self target anyway

You're scum

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:
Nacho/camn need to show up first

[SirCakez]

My guilty is extremely damning unfortunately for you kraska

[SirCakez]

Hey, guys!
Im not totally caught up with yesterday... but I understand Cakez has a guilty on kraska today...and kraska is claiming Busdriver?
Obv i support a kraska Lynch here, because Busdriver is a f-ing joke/desperation claim. I don't know what the count is.. but I'm in. Just tell me when.

FOS: kraska

And I protect Cakez tonight, then?

For sport- kraska- did you breadcrumb your claim? Cuz that is SOP with a real town redirector role.

Also- thanks for taking the N1 for me again, spyspy. I owe you.

How did you survive Zito's dayvig shot?

Ok fuck it I'm 3p
I h8 u cakes.....

Ha
I think he's trolling us ftr, I don't think a SK lines up with the town power levels we've seen so far

Still no comment from Nacho...

[SirCakez]

Waiting for everyone to check in

[SirCakez]

Camn you protected me yeah?

[SirCakez]

Then who did you protect camn?

[SirCakez]

i have a theory
let her answer

[SirCakez]

also nacho is def scum
this isn't from a result, just a super strong scumread
His enabling Kraska to self hammer yesterday was especially awful

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

VOTE: nacho
I don't have a useful result unfortunately, so going with my top scumread

[SirCakez]

@House yes he was a scummy scumbutt for all of day 1 and the fact he's still going after Elyse is terribad
Dram, I mean it's not something that is going to affect who we lynch today.

[SirCakez]

She was already obvtown before kraska pushed her
Plus people with more kraska experience then I said she doesn't like to bus

[SirCakez]

She was already obvtown before kraska pushed her
Plus people with more kraska experience then I said she doesn't like to bus

Why was Elyse obvtown?
Is it because she was pushing me?

The people with more kraska experience... that's giga, right?

That and the fact the reasons people were using to wagon her were awful.

His enabling Kraska to self hammer yesterday was especially awful

And then you can explain this whenever you like; what else had to be done yesterday?

For starters, you giving content besides a vote on Kraska.

[SirCakez]

That and the fact the reasons people were using to wagon her were awful.

What reasons were that?

Spoiler:

Vote: Elyse

While I'm still acknowledging that Elyse's case could have just been a townie trying too hard to put words with feelings, I'm not really buying that Elyse as town would stretch quite that much (in particular her "Nacho's saying that nothing has happened! Scummy!"), and I don't really like her "too tame, too much uncertainty" tells; I don't think that any of what she pointed out is an actual scumtell or anything that she believes is a scumtell and I don't think she'd make such a large case on something she knew was completely insignificant.

okay so elyse went from nothing to gobsmack "LYNCH NACHO THE SCUMZER". there's no succession she just massacred in to attack and her tone is accusatory...it feels forced and offbeat from the gamestate, like she's more content attacking than give room for nacho to explain himself. idk compare this to cakes/nacho interactions, felt more natural and genuine. it's ballsy but i dont feel comfortable writing her off as town for that

post 326 nacho votes elyse and this is totally a valid vote/push to make after his rebuttal of her case...but then he goes on to say he acknowledges that elyse could be town and i feel this negates the effect of his vote if that was supposed to pressure her...why arent you pushing elyse more strongly nacho?

this one in particular since it's from scum, this doesn't look like bussing

Gigaz
Wanna vote elyse wiz me?

giga where are u i wanna talk

Also giga is probably not scum, these don't look like scum-scum interactions

For starters, you giving content besides a vote on Kraska.

That needed to happen yesterday? That couldn't happen today?

Yeah it could have been pretty helpful for night actions

[SirCakez]

Yeah it could have been pretty helpful for night actions

What night actions?
You're always getting protection over me.
You're the investigative role, so it's not like you're ever changing your read on me.
Papa Zito was the presumed killing role; he wasn't doubting me and didn't have shots at night.

I'll respond to the Elyse points later.

Mine, your reads could have helped
And any other PRs that may still be unrevealed

Oh, and as for your "it's so terrible you're going back on Elyse, she's obvtown from kraska interactions"... the way that kraska backed me up against Elyse when not a whole lot of other people were listening is not scum-scum interaction. You're pushing me despite of that because of a pre-existing scumread that you had on me. Alternatively, I'm pushing Elyse because of a pre-existing scumread I had there; if a reread shows that wow kraska's interactions with Elyse are in no way scum-scum then I'll back off but that's not what a skim says and giga's meta of "kraska doesn't like attention when scum" is applied too naively (as demonstrated by the kraska scum flip) so I'm not just going to blind trust it.

I'm pretty sure someone else (ran I think) said that Kraska doesn't like bussing. And look at the quote I pulled earlier. Kraska's pushing on Elyse didn't look like bussing at all.

VOTE: nacho
I don't have a useful result unfortunately, so going with my top scumread

Two things:

1. What happened to the result?
2. Vote Camn with me.

It tentatively aligns with what camn said earlier (no this isn't a clear, don't take it like that)
Nacho is scummier

[SirCakez]

If I go into more detail my role will be obvious and then it's less useful
Town

[SirCakez]

If I go into more detail my role will be obvious and then it's less useful

FOS: Cakes

Tf are you on?

It counts as a killing role. A weak investigative role (like our friend Cakez the tracker) makes sense.

@

Cakez

: Why did you choose Kraska over Nacho?

Because of role reasons, I've said this three times now I think

@

Sir Cakes

: Can you go more into how Camn plays as town/scum? Thanks.
@

House

: You too if you have played with her.

I mean, what I said earlier was pretty much the summary of it. As scum she tends to lurk until she gets some pressure, then flails out when she gets called out. Kinda like what she did here (I'm mainly going off Summer Mafia for this)
As town she's usually somewhat more productive and doesn't do her "flip out under pressure" thing.

I don't really have faith in it anymore FYI.

[SirCakez]

As town she's usually somewhat more productive

and doesn't do her "flip out under pressure" thing.

This is part of why I'm losing faith in that reasoning
Can you quotee a game where camn as town took a lynch calmly? I think you probably have a very weird subsection of her meta if this is your opinion of her.

VOTE: giga

I actually think this is the best play today

No giga is town

I'd rather lynch camn then Elyse if a Nacho lynch won't come together (again )

[SirCakez]

No that's not part of the read anymore.
I don't think the interactions with Kraska mean they can't be buddies, especially with how hard Nacho tried to put it as "just questioning, not pushing"

[SirCakez]

I don't think Ran is scum either
His push on me was awful, but it feels TOO awful to be scum

[SirCakez]

If Elyse flips scum then I'd rewrite my reads dw

[SirCakez]

>.<

[SirCakez]

OK looking though a few ISOs I see SirCakez is cop, camn is doc. Are there any other claims? Also, what is the case on Elyse and Dramonic?

I didn't claim cop, Camn was fakeclaiming. She is bulletproof of some sorts though.
Nacho has a bs Elyse case even though Kraska tunneled her extensively and doesn't like to bus. Nacho is probably scum.
Dramonic is just your standard lurker wagon.

I am not willing to wagon Nacho anymore.

Why not?

Camn if you're town you need to be convincing me

[SirCakez]

@

Sir Cakes

: Because I'm more confident on Camn/Gamma today. Think it's possible Elyse v Nacho is TvT?
@

Nacho

: Did you consider that Elyse v You could be TvT? Did you consider that Kraska was focusing on Elyse!town and you!town as town to spread misinformation?

I'll get to your responses in a bit.

I very very very highly doubt it
I could go with a Gamma lynch I suppose (I can't remember anything House did) but it feels like a copout lynch.

I'll try Cakez... Let's start here: by your own logic, kraska tried pretty hard to get me lynched... And he doesn't like to bus?

Fyi everyone... I fly back to Asia 30 hours from now. So I'll be a little disjointed until then. But I'm still here.

I am gonna half claim alright now, just for grins..and to add to the fun.
I'm loved, and will take 6 to lynch.

This is one reason I'm hesitant to lynch you.

i just want to be free from Cakez and he has told me that the only way to be free of him is by producing Elyse's mafia corpse.
and so produce Elyse's mafia corpse I will.

if you vote camn she's flipping town. house slot i'm not so sure about, but if you vote camn she's flipping town. if she flips town, guess what still needs to be resolved the next day? me/elyse.

but what about when she flips town?

L-3

@

Sircakes

: You said you'd vote Camn over Elyse. Join me. Thoughts on my reasoning for Camn scum? Thoughts on house/gamma?

Yeah, if necessary. I don't want to lock myself into a camn lynch yet.
Quote the camn!scum reasoning?
House/Gamma could be scum yeah. Gamma hasn't really posted enough for me to sort yet tho.
P-edit: that camn vote feels weak af too. Dodging the Elyse/Nacho conflict

[SirCakez]

I was ISOing House while writing that post and it looks really bad.
He spent almost all of day 1 voteparked on Spicy and hiplop.

[SirCakez]

Yeah that case summarizes my issues with camn and why I would lynch her today. But there's some stuff I'm struggling to get over.

I am really really conflicted if it wasn't obvious
My lynch order currently would be nacho -> gamma -> camn

[SirCakez]

If Elyse has to be lynched so we can lynch nacho!scum, so be it
It would be easier if we could just lynch nacho though

[SirCakez]

VOTE: camn
Didn't realize we were testing this

[SirCakez]

No giga is town

Why

Because his interactions with kraska weren't svs

If Elyse has to be lynched so we can lynch nacho!scum, so be it
It would be easier if we could just lynch nacho though

You're not getting Nacho lynched without me

No one here is willing to stand up to him

Everyone keeps saying only one of you and Nacho is town
So your town flip should result in a speed nacho lynch

Also
UNVOTE:

[SirCakez]

Because his interactions with kraska weren't svs

I missed this.

Why? Sorry I know I'm asking a lot of whys but to me it seemed like giga expected to be able to work with kraska and using his experience with her as a tool and is stuck now that she's gone. I don't think he expected her to be gone so quickly.

I grabbed quotes earlier, look at them.

VOTE: gamma

[SirCakez]

I feel pretty confident about gamma scum though
You two can be sorted out tomorrow

[SirCakez]

lel nacho trying to save his scumbuddy

[SirCakez]

and cakez why would you vote outside of me/elyse when i told you i'd be willing to self-vote to get it done?

Why do you care so much if its done today?

[SirCakez]

and cakez why would you vote outside of me/elyse when i told you i'd be willing to self-vote to get it done?

Why do you care so much if its done today?

tomorrow is mylo if we mislynch today.
imagine why i don't want to end up in mylo with elyse.

Not sure why you'd be concerned about that since you're so sure Elyse is scum?

[SirCakez]

shush go back to your corner

[SirCakez]

You lol
It was a joke post.

But seriously 1660 is really bad shade throwing

[SirCakez]

and now he starts trying to discredit lol

[SirCakez]

And gamma don't fuck with me.
You are about to get power lynched.

The hell?
I'M IN HOUSES SLOT YOU IDIOT

THIS IS SO SCUMMY
Being in House's slot means fuckall, he wasn't townie

[SirCakez]

Not sure why you'd be concerned about that since you're so sure Elyse is scum?

You're not sure why I wouldn't want to make it with Elyse to lylo when everyone is currently voting Gamma and ignoring me/Elyse and she has proven she can dodge the lynch day after day after day

I mean when Gamma scumflips Elyse will be obvtown anyway

And gamma don't fuck with me.
You are about to get power lynched.

The hell?
I'M IN HOUSES SLOT YOU IDIOT

THIS IS SO SCUMMY
Being in House's slot means fuckall, he wasn't townie

The point that Gamma was bringing up was that Camn was hard townreading House earlier, which is a valid point regardless of your opinion on House. I thought House looked town as fuck. I think it would be sad if Gamma got lynched here when the case against him doesn't really hold up.

I'm pretty sure that's not what Gamma was bringing up with that post.....

[SirCakez]

Then why didn't you say that?

[SirCakez]

The people calling the post scummy didn't tell you that it wasn't implied?
I find it super sketchy you didn't bring it back up until Nacho defended you for it.

[SirCakez]

You're literally the only person commenting on that post cakez.

Ran also thought it was scummy iirc

I mean when Gamma scumflips Elyse will be obvtown anyway

And if Gamma flips town nothing changes. Right?

Like I said earlier, I'll reevaluate if this happens

I'm pretty sure that's not what Gamma was bringing up with that post.....

Gamma bringing up House to camn immediately after she stated House was a strong town read

probably

isn't just funky circumstance.
I'd bet you that Ranmaru agrees with me on this point.

Well do you Ran?

But I can think of the PERFECT flavor for a lyncher in this setup.
It would be someone who's trying to get the head-of-household knocked off so they can take a massive inheritance.
IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE

Monty navarro role confirmed

[SirCakez]

My thoughts on that comment by Gamma was "You can't lynch me I'm in your town read's slot!!" which reeks of Gamma relying on house's town read to save him without doing anything on his own. So no. Especially since I pointed out that Camn was wavering on her House town read, and that I have shown that Gamma isn't reading thoroughly. [#1744]

Yeah we're on the same page

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

rekt
hammer away

Also in case I get killed tonight should just out this now since it was obvious anyway
Camn didn't visit anyone last night

[SirCakez]

Thanks for modding UTL! I had a lot of fun.
Sorry for tunneling you Nacho <.<
<3 ran
I picked kraska because she was a null read I had that I thought had a decent chance of doing something scummy if she was scum. And she was!

[SirCakez]

Totally!