Mini 1840: Watch Dogs Blitz [Game Over]

[Infinity 324]

Up to page 19, will gather my thoughts when I'm done.

As for dunn, he is very flippant as scum. Does me saying that change anything for you?

Would like varsoon to respond to this.

[Infinity 324]

Not done rereading, but here are my thoughts so far

Stargazers- have said some questionable things but gut and meta from maria points toward town
Math- feels like their town play more than scum, need to do more though
Dunn- I take issue with him scumreading me since he knows this is my playstyle and I get waited for it every game. Would vote him based on just that, actually.
Grapevine- more town than I thought before given something I can't talk about right now
SlySly- tone is super town but nothing really concrete there yet. Would say noob town but has an old join date so idk
House- def town
Gamma- def town
Lane- seems to be trying to find strange things that people do rather than trying to find scum. But given the townslip and asserting that he's obvtown as town it's hard to call him scum

Everyone else is either unchanged or undecided

[Infinity 324]

Infinity how can you have meta on me when we've only played 1 game and I was scum in that o-o
~Maria

You are playing

very

differently from that game

[Infinity 324]

Actually I got everything I needed to out of my half-reread

Top scumpicks are panther and dunn

If not them I'd pick guilty or expedience I guess.

Stargazers, mathblade, slysly, and lane are all scummy in their own ways but there's something keeping me from scumreading them. I'd prefer waiting on these so I can sort them better

Grapevine and creature are also weaker townreads

House and gamma are the strongest.

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

Nah you do you

[Infinity 324]

That post wasn't what I was referring to. But uh...I think gamma was the one who escalated that situation not slysly.

[Infinity 324]

Do you want to make any specific accusations or are you just throwing shade yourself?

[Infinity 324]

^ @slysly

[Infinity 324]

Btw stargazers, it's ok if you really don't want to explain your reads, but I don't see how it would be counterproductive. Specifically, I'd like you to explain your townread on dunnstral

[Infinity 324]

I don't think the post had a towny or scummy tone.

I also don't think it was an overreaction. The way gamma was acting made it seem like he thought it was scummy regardless

Plus slysly couldn't explain so yeah.

[Infinity 324]

Btw stargazers, it's ok if you really don't want to explain your reads, but I don't see how it would be counterproductive. Specifically, I'd like you to explain your townread on dunnstral

If you explain a read on someone who is scum regardless if it's a town or scumread there either going to A) Keep going what they're doing to be townread or B) stop doing or do something else to not get sr

This way people don't know why they're sr or tr.

I disagree but ok

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I don't think that read is gonna change unless you bring up something groundbreaking

Everything about the guy is town

[Infinity 324]

i hear a lot of sly's scummy, but i don't see any votes. bring em unless you're just scum throwing shade

Do you want to make any specific accusations or are you just throwing shade yourself?

^ @slysly

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Infinity324

Oh yeah forgot about that being a townslip

Infinity is mafia

I voted him before this point for the rest of his posts but this seals the deal

Also do you still scumread me?

Yes

Dunnstral will vigorously deny it, but I've played with him a lot and he's pretty much a VI

Also plays the exact same way as scum unfortunately

HAHAHAHA

I'm being baited by scum
VOTE: infinity 324

Also my phones blowing up

Well ok. You last mentioned it longer ago than I thought. Have things changed since then?

Would like to know what changed if anything and how my play early on was different from my other games as town

Your response seems like an under-reaction tbh

[Infinity 324]

How do I know you didn't just make that up on the spot

[Infinity 324]

I'm gonna start policy voting you if you don't make yourself at least mildly readable

[Infinity 324]

Town also has some responsibility to be at least a little transparent

If everyone was you finding scum would be impossible

[Infinity 324]

On dunnstral?

I don't know where to start

PEdit: people townread you for stuff you do as scum too I'm pretty sure

[Infinity 324]

How about explaining some reasoning

Answering what I asked in 1260 would be a start

[Infinity 324]

1265 was a communication with dunnstral in case he was town

I don't have a read on him

@dunn What;s your opinion of meta, and how I play as town (and if you've seen me play as scum?)

When you've played so many games with someone it's weird that meta isn't a consideration

[Infinity 324]

No

I would like you to point out specific people who FoS'ed you but not voted you and why they are scummy

[Infinity 324]

specific people

[Infinity 324]

That's all you had to say

Really, what I didn't like was the blanket accusation that didn't seem to be addressing anyone specifically so it didn't seem productive

[Infinity 324]

I'm happy with these panther votes

[Infinity 324]

I don't like this slysly wagon very much and it's making me get suspicious of counterwagoning

What are you saying in 1302 maria?

[Infinity 324]

Gamma is town. By the nature of his playstyle, there aren't going to be specific places where you can tell he's scumhunting. He has reads an they change. But I can't possibly imagine that scum!gamma looked at all of his posts, said "hmm that looks good", and clicked submit.

SlySly's case on lane is terrible but probably not trying to look good either.

Let's lynch panther. He came into the game, gave in-depth analysis on things that didn't particularly matter, then when called out on it voted the person who called him out with an incredibly shallow reason. That's not town play.

[Infinity 324]

We'll see about that

[Infinity 324]

Because your reason for voting is faulty.
I feel Creature is actually more likely to be the scum on my wagon.
VOTE: Creature

Actually, think my read on Creature is more circumstantial than on stargazers.
PEdit: actually they may be town. Nevermind, the vote does not change.

Thinking Expedience and Dunnstral are scum rn.

I think this is a change

@Lane: Well, I've felt that way since Expedience's catch-up and nothing I've seen has really allayed that.
You know what, I think you may be right. I've kinda been tunneling Expe. I'll bump him to scumlean.

Plus he definitely shows he's developing new scumreads if that's the issue, not sure if those count as "changing" reads

Never said his playstyle was hard to parse

I still need to read that scumgame of his though.

[Infinity 324]

I never said it looked natural, he's not trying to make it look natural. Gamma jumps on things that are scummy in his head without any concern to whether people can follow his thought process. Not scum play.

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Ok, can you look at this ISO? It resembles this game in some respects but it looks like more fluff and more logical read progressions.

Willing to accept being wrong here.

[Infinity 324]

SlySly's case on lane is terrible but probably not trying to look good either.

Join scum and vote me then.

Scum try to look good. You're town.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

Panther is gonna do a thing and to see the results of it before we lynch him or anyone else.

I want to talk to someone about gamma.

[Infinity 324]

I'll talk to you about gamma.

Wait, you should talk to someone who's townreading them maybe

Nah, I'd rather talk to someone from the other side.

I'd like you to go over the scum game I posted of his. If you don't want to do that, state the 2 main points you have against him

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Ok, can you look at this ISO? It resembles this game in some respects but it looks like more fluff and more logical read progressions.

Willing to accept being wrong here.

Which game has more fluff and more logical reads progressions? I don't see anything that would make him town here

The other one does

I want your input

[Infinity 324]

What are the main scummy similarities you see?

[Infinity 324]

Pretend the deadline is in 3 hours.

No.

There's a lot to be done

[Infinity 324]

Then talk about scummy things he did in this game. Try to convince me

[Infinity 324]

Nice conversation

[Infinity 324]

What did you expect to accomplish with that?

[Infinity 324]

Don't see how voting a townread gets the game going

And ftr, my unvote on panther is temporary

If he doesn't do anything soon I will vote him again

Maybe be willing to vote gamma if someone convinces me

Not voting slysly

[Infinity 324]

@Gamma Explain your read on me, and what you think about my sudden "flip" on you

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I should stop being lazy and re-ISO him

But I suggest you read the game I linked and see what you think. I got the same vibe, in a way, to this one

[Infinity 324]

I kinda want panther in the game just cause if he's town he'll be a big asset to us I think

Which leaves me in a difficult spot

[Infinity 324]

Is Panther being an asset rn?

No, but that's not the point

[Infinity 324]

What the fuck

[Infinity 324]

STOP VOTING YOUR TOWNREADS

[Infinity 324]

And you only mention that now because....

[Infinity 324]

You've been calling slysly town for...how long now? And never mentioned once that you were losing your townread of him

ffs

This is really bad play if you're town

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Gamma

L-2

You've been calling slysly town for...how long now? And never mentioned once that you were losing your townread of him

ffs

This is really bad play if you're town

Excuse me

Your behavior warrants an explanation

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Gamma

L-2

You've been calling slysly town for...how long now? And never mentioned once that you were losing your townread of him

ffs

This is really bad play if you're town

Excuse me

Your behavior warrants an explanation

[Infinity 324]

Did I call it scummy?

I said it warrants an explanation.

Quote one post where you showed doubt of your sly townread before you voted him.

[Infinity 324]

I don't have an issue with the gamma vote.

[Infinity 324]

sigh

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's scummy now that you're not even trying to defend yourself

But it's a terrible play nonetheless

[Infinity 324]

It was a weird thing you did that was potentially scum-motivated

I hope you can realize that

[Infinity 324]

Townreading someone, then voting them when they get a wagon on them?

If we let scum do that they'd have a shitton of leeway

[Infinity 324]

*Marks house as VI*
I know our lynch tomorrow!
~Maria

Who

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's scummy now that you're not even trying to defend yourself

There was nothing to defend.

What do you mean, "now" that I'm not trying to defend myself?

After I questioned you on it you didn't try to rationalize it

I can't believe you think there's nothing to defend

[Infinity 324]

This is not your typical "voting a townread out of nowhere" scenario by any stretch

I disagree

And I think it's too scummy to be scum at this point so I don't get why you think it's scum-motivated for me

[Infinity 324]

This is not your typical "voting a townread out of nowhere" scenario by any stretch

I disagree

And I think it's too scummy to be scum at this point so I don't get why you think it's scum-motivated for me

Too scummy to be scum is a fallacy

In theory it's WIFOM but in practice all scum have some level of competence and don't intentionally act scum just to be townread based off that

So what do you think of house's sudden flipflop then

[Infinity 324]

A bunch of people scumread you more, and not much else

[Infinity 324]

Slayer's gambit is shit end of story

[Infinity 324]

And you'll accomplish what with that, if you somehow avoid being lynched? You're arrogant enough to think you're a better scumhunter than whoever will get NKed instead?

[Infinity 324]

But scum will just NK whoever is better than you anyway

All you're doing by being scummy is increasing the chance you get lynched

[Infinity 324]

Preventing yourself from not getting NKed does not help town

Preventing yourself from getting lynched does

[Infinity 324]

But w/e I'm not gonna convince you

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's pretty much where I'm at too

Down for lynching dunnstral

[Infinity 324]

Yeah same

Mathblade is not a terrible lynch either

I think panther has the best chance of being scum but I'd feel bad lynching him

If he doesn't do his thing I will def vote him tho

PEdit: If you think scum!gamma would think that'd solve the issue...think again

[Infinity 324]

I'm not trying to prevent my demise in this game in the day or the night. I'm trying to win the game. I win when the town wins. Right now, assuming you're town, you may think I'm full of shit, but if I get lynched, I know how I'm gonna flip. You may mistake my confidence on this as arrogance, but tomorrow you'll see that I was telling the truth, and then you can go and review what bravado was around faking confidence with bs against me before things opened up. You'll hear me better then.

What's my read on you again?

I don't know exactly what your point is. But getting yourself scumread for no visible gain, which seemed to be what your reaction test accomplished, doesn't seem like a good idea

But I don't really care at this point

[Infinity 324]

Mathblade is not a lynch either

Fix't

I honestly don't get what your issue is with me

I don't get the point of this post

[Infinity 324]

ISOd gamma again and most of him post seem to lead in a productive direction from his perspective

He's town

[Infinity 324]

You don't know my point because you are ignoring and down-playing what my actions did because you attribute my actions as being of arrogant nature.

I think intentionally making yourself look scummier in order to avoid being NKed is arrogant

But that doesn't seem to be what you were doing so now I'm just confused

I don't know what "methods" you're talking about at this point

[Infinity 324]

Forgot, the super secret shit

w/e

[Infinity 324]

ISOd gamma again

In two whole minutes?

Puh-leez

No, I started it earlier and finished it in between posting

[Infinity 324]

Not a bad list

Except I think grapevine and gazers are town

And I'm not sure about guilty

You're probably town for the mind melding

[Infinity 324]

ISOd gamma again

In two whole minutes?

Puh-leez

No, I started it earlier and finished it in between posting

Alrighty then, perhaps you can explain something, since he couldn't.

Why did he upgrade his neutral read on Guilty when I called him out for trusting a neutral read to vouch for a town read?

Even when he upgraded his read, it was only to town lean... But he put me at hard town based on a newly (after the fact) minted town

lean

's word?

Perhaps you can help me understand how that could come from a mindset other than manipulation.

I'll let gamma explain that

But scum usually don't do obviously terrible shit like that. Obviously from scum!gamma's perspective saying that won't get you to stop pushing the issue, so why even say it

As for the hard town vs. town lean thing, I already explain that. Town lean means percentage wise, a very high chance to be town, and therefore a very high chance to be able to trust him on the read. If guilty is scum, you're not necessarily scum, but if guilty is town you are more likely to be town. So it makes sense for you to go up in his reads regardless

Except I think grapevine and gazers are town

Stargazers scum claimed.

Scum claims don't exist, unless you literally say "I'm scum"

[Infinity 324]

*Marks house as VI*
I know our lynch tomorrow!
~Maria

Who

If gamma gets lynched Sly if Sly gets lynched Creature or house

Scum claim. LOL. Because Stargazers knows Sly and Gamma are both gonna flip town.

It's not even a scummy statement lol

[Infinity 324]

I'll let gamma explain that

He already tried and failed. I thought you read his ISO?

He never did really

As for the hard town vs. town lean thing, I already explain that. Town lean means percentage wise, a very high chance to be town, and therefore a very high chance to be able to trust him on the read. If guilty is scum, you're not necessarily scum, but if guilty is town you are more likely to be town. So it makes sense for you to go up in his reads regardless

Precisely, which is why I should not have been considered hard town based on a town lean's word unless he already knew Guilty actually IS town!

But percentage wise, most people are probably town so your chance of being town overall goes up

[Infinity 324]

@Gamma Explain your read on me, and what you think about my sudden "flip" on you

This never got answered

[Infinity 324]

But percentage wise, most people are probably town so your chance of being town overall goes up

Oh so by your reasoning, everybody in the game could be town lean, right?

You are bending over backwards to excuse his bullshit.

Not I'm not

If you want me to do the math I will

If you going up in his reads depends on guilty being town, you still go up in his reads, but by slightly less

[Infinity 324]

Yore picking on the most asinine thing that scum could easily just not do

[Infinity 324]

Say I claimed cop with an inno on someone, and in the case where I was scum I would've just chosen a random player (for the sake of argument). Even though I'm not confirmed town, the player in question has an objectively greater chance of being town.

[Infinity 324]

Slightly less than you would go up if guilty was conf town. It could still be very high depending on how much you trust the validity of the PM tell

Plus he never said his entire read on you is based off that one thing lol

[Infinity 324]

Oh man

[Infinity 324]

Focusing on a single or a few posts to make a read is stupid. Arguments like "town would never say that" are almost always invalid because town have said and will say pretty much anything. To a lesser extent, the same thing is true with scum. To get a good read on someone, you have to look at their body of work and see if their overall playstyle fits more with town or scum.

[Infinity 324]

First of all, your argument is essentially based off of "town wouldn't say that". I ISOd gamma and came up with an overall reading of his playstyle as town and you came it with this single point, as if that weighs more heavily than all of gamma's other actions.

And I never said your read should be lower than guilty's. Actually, I specifically said that the "slightly lower" part was in comparison to the read increase that would occur if guilty was confirmed town, not in comparison to guilty's read, and that if gamma weighted guilty's tell enough, it would be logical to increase you from null to higher than guilty. But apparently you ignored all that.

[Infinity 324]

To get a good read on someone, you have to look at their body of work and see if their overall playstyle fits more with town or scum.

So you don't believe that scum can maintain a town facade and only slip up a time or two?

Explain the large win percentage for mafia, then.

It's because people pick on small things instead of looking at the bigger picture

But seriously, I find that in general good scum players tend to look over all their posts carefully anyway, so they're rarely foiled by small logical inconsistencies. Rather, the way scum get caught is that they're simply not as good/not in as good of a mindset for the whole game or an extended period.

[Infinity 324]

First of all, your argument is essentially based off of "town wouldn't say that".

Bullshit, it's based off "town wouldn't trust a NULL READ to vouch for a HARD TOWN READ that was null before the vouch.

That's not what he's saying, it's what he's THINKING, it makes absolutely zero sense.

Semantics

It's the same idea

And it makes sense if you listen to the logic which you don't seem to be listening to

Again, I'll math it out for you if you want

[Infinity 324]

I mean, there are some things in there which aren't so logical

Like the fact that he trusts the tell

so much

, or that he's basing his entire read off of that

But sometimes town aren't logical

[Infinity 324]

Can you explain the supposed "scum claim"

[Infinity 324]

Ok but why were you leaning scum on me originally and what's your conclusion now

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why it can't come from town just as easily

[Infinity 324]

I'm super lost atm.

Infinity, lane and SlySly are town I think.

Weakly townreading Gamma and stargazers.

We should lynch panther or creature, or maybe someone else like the Guiltylion slot. I won't fight it if you guys want to lynch Gamma though and it goes near deadline.

idk that's all i got

This is a town post

I guess we can lynch panther since he hasn't done anything

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: panther

I like lynching scum d1

[Infinity 324]

Panther is L-2

Gamma is L-3

[Infinity 324]

Actually, that's a really good point

Now can everyone get off of slysly

[Infinity 324]

Imo there's a pretty good chance that all 3 of these wagons are town

[Infinity 324]

Idk

I'm just stating that for the record

[Infinity 324]

Well then vote whichever one you feel has best composition or whatever.

I did

But I don't wanna lynch this guy

But I'm SURE both you and sly are town

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I'll be here

[Infinity 324]

We have an hour 5 minutes I think

You may have to self hammer if you're town

[Infinity 324]

Ok.

Town lynch > no lynch so non self hammering would be anti-town.

[Infinity 324]

Ok I'll vote gamma just so he doesn't get lynched later if that's what it comes too

But we need to lynch someone

[Infinity 324]

With us who are on that means we have to lynch panther then

You might want to claim panther

[Infinity 324]

Ok we got 1 more person

I want to lynch one of us who are online though so that doesn't really give us more options

[Infinity 324]

Might as well claim.
I'm a citizen, aligned with the Watch Dogs. The only thing that assured me I am town is the fact there was no partners listed in my PM.

Lol not scum

[Infinity 324]

Mhm

Even if it's just us 5 we only gain the ability to lynch house or slysly which we're not doing

[Infinity 324]

Just so you guys know. If you're at L-1 at the deadline and don't self hammer that's a scum claim

[Infinity 324]

Gamma is at L-1

[Infinity 324]

I think we should go for the popular option, you don't want to leave someone alive who'll likely be lynched later even if you're townreading it strongly.

True, but it's hard to call gamma scum after what he said imo

[Infinity 324]

HOLY SHIT
EVERYONE ON HOUSE

He's not online to claim, also he's town

[Infinity 324]

It's really hard to predict who people will think is scummy in the future

I though the way gamma claimed was obvtown but other people might not

People were backing off slysly and panther has a chance to town up in the future

I think gamma might have to be our lynch

[Infinity 324]

It's really hard to predict who people will think is scummy in the future

I though the way gamma claimed was obvtown but other people might not

People were backing off slysly and panther has a chance to town up in the future

I think gamma might have to be our lynch

Plus a minimum amount of claims is best

[Infinity 324]

Sorry

[Infinity 324]

Marathon game where I am governor:

Deadline lynch happens
Lynchee acts super townie
I govern the lynch
Super townie gets lynched next day

Lol yeah shit like that happens

[Infinity 324]

If anyone has another suggestion I'll wait and hammer 10 minutes before deadline. We have half an hour left atm

[Infinity 324]

DAMMIT LANE
COP THIS FUCKER

Byeeeee. Should've helped me with slysly. Wish there was enough people on someone else or even on in general

Pedit: what was town about the claim? I mean, I don't think it was scum, but it's what I expected scum to claim

The way he described it was accurate

Although there is a VT role example in the OP...he would have to have seen it and fake not knowing it existed

[Infinity 324]

Like obviously he would've known that role pm is town if he saw the pm in the op

[Infinity 324]

Like obviously he would've known that role pm is town if he saw the pm in the op

I did see it in the OP when I first read the OP.

Then how did you not know that your PM was town?

[Infinity 324]

I townread Panther. Not voting him.

Sorry to break it to you, town is getting lynched today

[Infinity 324]

Like obviously he would've known that role pm is town if he saw the pm in the op

I did see it in the OP when I first read the OP.

Then how did you not know that your PM was town?

Because even though I saw it, it was a fleeting glance, and "Watch Dogs" felt like a scum flavor.

Ok

I still don't think there's a reasonable possibility you faked that

[Infinity 324]

If everyone comes in here right now and says gamma is obvtown I'll vote panther

Otherwise I'm voting gamma

[Infinity 324]

I have no idea who scum is tbh

I'll have to re-ISO depending on the flip

[Infinity 324]

I'd love a quicklynch on dunnstral or smth but that's probably not happening

[Infinity 324]

I have a meeting in 14 min. That's how long I have.

Deadline is in about 12 minutes

I can wait a bit longer but p sure I'm just hammering gamma

[Infinity 324]

I am hesitant to push a flashwagon.

Yeah it seems unrealistic

[Infinity 324]

If we're forced to lynch Gamma: all scum within {Stargazers, Grapes, Dunnstral, Expedience} gg game locked

I'm not as confident as you

[Infinity 324]

Would you lynch confirmed town just for the flip?

No because then the flip wouldn't matter

The worst case scenario and what I'm trying to avoid is no lynching today, then you just get lynched tomorrow

And I'm giving panther a second chance because if he's town lynching him would be really bad

[Infinity 324]

But you all think I'm town!
And I'm SURE we have something that can prevent evens.

If we have 2 things that can prevent evens then we want to lynch again

Plus a lot of people still scumread you I think

Sorry it's gotta be done

VOTE: gamma

PEdit: beat me to it

[Infinity 324]

I HATE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl

getting mislynched sucks

[Infinity 324]

Iiiinteresting

I want to hear from Panther again

I need to ISO creature

VOTE: dunn cause PoE...I guess...

PEdit: VOTE: stargazers sure

[Infinity 324]

Sup panther

Who do you think are Star's buddies?

I'd have to ISO but associative tells are more accurate coming from the players who aren't conf scum

I'll do dunn, who else should I ISO

[Infinity 324]

Creature, are you fine with being lynched if stargazers flips town?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Infinity

Why would you even ask such a thing?
That's not where your priorities should be at all.
-V

Worried about scum potentially getting a free mislynch by claiming roleblocker that blocked gazers or smth

[Infinity 324]

Well we're not a miller and if you're not just testing, I'm inclined to think scum wouldn't come out swinging with a fake guilty on day 2 for no reason. You got redirected or we got framed.
-Nahdia

Yeah no

[Infinity 324]

Want to test that possibility then.

Now that you say you've got a guilty I'm not worried unless fire is sadistic enough to put a bus driver/framer in

[Infinity 324]

i wouldn't discount the possibility.
1821: why did this come to mind, Infinity? trying for a mislynch in such a manner is as dangerous as fakeclaiming a guilty.
still not caught up, don't have time. but i'm here during class, if you want me to look at specific things.

It's not as dangerous for sure, your claim is a lot more believable if it doesn't rely on specific roles that had to target specific people

Want to test that possibility then.

Now that you say you've got a guilty I'm not worried unless fire is sadistic enough to put a bus driver/framer in

Have you met Firebringer?
-Nahdia

Uh I've played with him before

[Infinity 324]

Pls don't quicklynch guys

[Infinity 324]

Ughh

I have reason to believe that maria may have in fact blocked the kill but that would require both slysly and creature to be scum and I'm not seeing it

[Infinity 324]

How convenient you lynch my top townread while I'm afk and Creature comes into the day claiming guilty on our slot lol I don't care what Nat says I'm willing to bet Creature is a role cop on us and saw that we're pr

We're a roleblocker and we can rb either phone actions or actual pr actions we can do both but we won't be able to rb the next night we roleblocked slysly last night

so he saw you were a roleblocker and decided that he would claim a guilty on you to get you lynched. knowing it's a 1 for 1 and that he'd be lynched the next day...as a rolecop

there is no world that ever happens and no world where I'd believe you actually believe that

gg your game is over

Yeah that

If there's a redirector or framer I'm going to be really mad at fire

[Infinity 324]

I have reason to believe that maria may have in fact blocked the kill

Text me it

I don't know you're town, sorry

[Infinity 324]

Text me it

No can do

[Infinity 324]

CAN WE TALK TO FIRE ABOUT THIS THEN CAUSE IT'S IN MY GOD DAM ROLE PM
~Maria

I thought you thought creature was scum?

[Infinity 324]

My reason is dumb nvm

[Infinity 324]

CAN WE TALK TO FIRE ABOUT THIS THEN CAUSE IT'S IN MY GOD DAM ROLE PM
~Maria

I thought you thought creature was scum?

???? Yes what are you reading I'm getting pissy that people think we can't roleblock phone actions when we CAN what I assume happens is we rb the action at night and they don't work the next day
~Maria

Oh I thought you were referencing the framer/redirector thing

My reason assumed star is town so that makes it more likely that they're scum if at all possible

[Infinity 324]

@stargazers PM fire about how your role works

[Infinity 324]

@stargazers You guys claim non-consecutive right?

If maria is town, slysly is scum 100%. I think a framer/redirector is more likely than creature suiciding to kill a non-consecutive roleblocker, but creature specifically doesn't have to be the rolecop. Scum just has to have a rolecop on their team.

[Infinity 324]

I'm assuming it won't block hacks and that, but it will block the actions in your slots... If you're inclined to believe star

Are you guys inclined to believe star?

[Infinity 324]

Come on, lynch me. I hammered town. Stargazers rb'd me and that why and that's why there was no NK.

Chill, where's my vote dude

[Infinity 324]

Here, I'll start the wagon for you.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SlySly

What the fuck are you hoping to accomplish with this

I assume "you" is me, and I don't think you're scum at the moment. So just wtf

[Infinity 324]

It's possible Stargazers is a mafia roleblocker who converted its role to town. It's also possible they stole it from one of their scum partner, but I find that unlikely.

Huh?

[Infinity 324]

Here, I'll start the wagon for you.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SlySly

What the fuck are you hoping to accomplish with this

I assume "you" is me, and I don't think you're scum at the moment. So just wtf

i've said all along, my flip proves others wrong.

"you" is to whoever thinks i'm scum.

That would be precisely 0 people

[Infinity 324]

Except for stargazers of course

[Infinity 324]

I don't think I would redirect/frame Stargazers (if I had that ability) when there are logically better targets for that.

Good point

[Infinity 324]

Lynch gazers, if they are town, lynch creature + slysly

I'm good with that

[Infinity 324]

scum have fake claims.

This is standard for theme games

[Infinity 324]

@stargazers PM fire about how your role works

@stargazers You guys claim non-consecutive right?

[Infinity 324]

It's unlike lane to be so cautious

[Infinity 324]

It's unlike lane to be so cautious

What is this shit? Cautious of what?

Just slow to act and considering all possibilities

It's out of character for you

[Infinity 324]

I'm 99% sure one of stargazers and slysly is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Reiso* autocorrect sucks.

Yes. No kill does not mean Stargazers blocked it. This is what I take issue with. Doctors BPs or other things can interact with it if they exist. I want to look back and figure it out.

Suit yourself, I'm sticking with my guns

[Infinity 324]

I already answered your question Infinity

Where?

[Infinity 324]

That is the crux of it.

IMHO if anyone is scum I would pick Creature over Stargazers. The last will mechanic would let Creature out his guilty. Instead he could have tunneled Nahdia and then saw who didn't want to vote her and see if his guilty was untampered with. However if it was the reads are lost because people are giving scum an out. (The paragraph assumes Nahdia town)

I think gut reaction based on how things went both are town or Creature is scum and Sly would be likely but not confirmed scum.

However I want to read and confirm. I also have a hard time believing Stargazers would crumb as scum.

Dafuq

Which is more likely, creature didn't think about waiting to out his guilty, or scum have a rolecop and scum!creature decided to sacrifice himself to lynch a non-consecutive roleblocker?

[Infinity 324]

How else would scum!creature know stargazers had a PR? Would he guilty a random townie? I don't think so

[Infinity 324]

Good morning Vietnam.

VOTE: Mathblade

Not sure other player's experience with Blitz here. I've got a lot of experience in Blitz games from my home site though I will say this game has slightly longer day phases than the ones I'm used to from there. Still though I think this advice applies; really

focus on forming scumreads and cementing wagons sooner rather than later

. Last minute panic for lynches is how gruesome mistakes are made. I remember one game I played (I was mafia thankfully) where town lynched the cop day 1 and the doctor day 2 because it got to the last minute and people were panicking and the PR's hadn't claimed previously since they weren't in any significant danger leading up to that point.

-Nahdia

Explain why scum Nahdia would crumb a movie about a broadcaster.

Excuse me?

[Infinity 324]

Mathblade may be playing dumb and/or desperately trying to defend their buddy

lane/math/star?

[Infinity 324]

Good morning Vietnam is a movie starring Robin Williams.

The vote on me would only increase my visibility to it.

How is that a crumb and why wouldn't scum do it

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: mathblade

[Infinity 324]

I don't believe you believe that's a crumb, that's a hell of a stretch

[Infinity 324]

The vote is symbolic

[Infinity 324]

Why would scum claim censorship role post one? There were very few roles I would accept from Nahdia after that. VT wasn't one of them.

Because they thought it would be a good idea to claim roleblocker

Or, their fakeclaim was roleblocker

Even if that was a crumb, which I doubt

Why are you trying to find reasons to townread the guilty?

[Infinity 324]

I did and I built my crumb in the post after

Ok fine

But it still makes no sense that you'd townread the guilty based on that

Explain a situation which would lead scum!creature to fakeclaim a guilty on stargazers

[Infinity 324]

I am investigating if it is a true guilty having set up so many fakes myself. I am not finding reasons to townread. I want all my questions answered.

Why would they fake claim roleblocker post one? If I was roleblocker I would have tunneled Stargazers to kingdom come. It is incredibly stupid play.

a) Because that was their fakeclaim from the mod
b) Because they thought it was unlikely that there would be a roleblocker in the game
c) Because it wasn't actually a roleblocker claim

[Infinity 324]

Explain a situation which would lead scum!creature to fakeclaim a guilty on stargazers

Answer this please

[Infinity 324]

I did and I built my crumb in the post after

Ok fine

But it still makes no sense that you'd townread the guilty based on that

Explain a situation which would lead scum!creature to fakeclaim a guilty on stargazers

Doesn't have to be a fake claim.
Could be Creature was redirected.

However if it is a fake claim it would be due to making an intelligent sacrifice.
Scum would have had to know that Nahdia was a roleblocker or had excellent reads and then a 1 to 1 trade is worth a planned bus. Planned busses for towncred are a thing.

It also doesn't excuse Creature's play in the slightest. I don't see why a town Creature would claim here. If Creature is a cop then he could keep sending off guesses and put them all in his last will. Outing himself for one guilty doesn't make sense as a town play.

First of all stargazers are nonconsecutive so sacrificing a buddy who was in fine shape just for towncred and killing the weak PR seems very unlikely.

Second of all you're acting like town can't possibly make mistakes.

SlySly is scum or something else blocked the kill
Creature is scum
Creature's team knew stargazers were a PR
Creature's team decided to sacrifice him

vs.

Stargazers is scum
Creature made a mistake
Stargazers said something that looked to you like a roleblocker crumb

Second is much more likely.

[Infinity 324]

I did and I built my crumb in the post after

Ok fine

But it still makes no sense that you'd townread the guilty based on that

Explain a situation which would lead scum!creature to fakeclaim a guilty on stargazers

Doesn't have to be a fake claim.
Could be Creature was redirected.

However if it is a fake claim it would be due to making an intelligent sacrifice.
Scum would have had to know that Nahdia was a roleblocker or had excellent reads and then a 1 to 1 trade is worth a planned bus. Planned busses for towncred are a thing.

It also doesn't excuse Creature's play in the slightest. I don't see why a town Creature would claim here. If Creature is a cop then he could keep sending off guesses and put them all in his last will. Outing himself for one guilty doesn't make sense as a town play.

First of all stargazers are nonconsecutive so sacrificing a buddy who was in fine shape just for towncred and killing the weak PR seems very unlikely.

Second of all you're acting like town can't possibly make mistakes.

SlySly is scum or something else blocked the kill
Creature is scum
Creature's team knew stargazers were a PR
Creature's team decided to sacrifice him

vs.

Stargazers is scum
Creature made a mistake
Stargazers said something that looked to you like a roleblocker crumb

Second is much more likely.

+(very unlikely imo) possibility of redirector/framer

[Infinity 324]

We're lynching star today, there's no question about it

[Infinity 324]

Creature's right, the reaction to the guilty is scummy too.

I agree

[Infinity 324]

That may be your opinion that the lynch is inevitable but then why aren't you buddy hunting?

You make the assumption that I'm not buddy hunting as we speak...

[Infinity 324]

It's unlike lane to be so cautious

Mathblade may be playing dumb and/or desperately trying to defend their buddy

lane/math/star?

VOTE: mathblade

I don't believe you believe that's a crumb, that's a hell of a stretch

Why are you trying to find reasons to townread the guilty?

[Infinity 324]

That is throwing shade not asking questions. Shade isn't hunting.

Whatever, at least you agree it's there

[Infinity 324]

Something to note. Reads lists are less important in this game because of last will. I at least am going to try to be less transparent from now on

[Infinity 324]

Let me be clear here.

Someone in this game KNOWS exactly why I am being this cautious about the lynch. That someone can send me the first vowel of something in a message. I need to decide something now.

Oh

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

The vote is symbolic

@SlySly

the 1990 quote is meaningless

No it's not, they're right. I wasn't trying to lynch mathblade, I voted them because they seemed like a very likely scumbuddy to stargazers at the time

[Infinity 324]

Will explore the dunn/stargazers possibility. I'm not sure that scum!lane would be more hesitant than town!lane here, I think he'd probably know to bus. So lane still probably town. Not sure who else to look into yet, I'll read over today again probably.

[Infinity 324]

@stargazers PM fire about how your role works

@stargazers You guys claim non-consecutive right?

I already answered your question Infinity

Where?

[Infinity 324]

PM fire is wrt what happens to the phone abilities when you block someone

[Infinity 324]

Chara is town or good scum I think

[Infinity 324]

Why is panther town chara?

[Infinity 324]

Slysly + gazers isn't out of the question.

[Infinity 324]

Slysly + gazers isn't out of the question.

Yes it is. If you think I'm scum, vote me. I'm already supporting a wagon for that ridiculous theory. If you want to push it, vote me or stfu.

What the fuck

I don't scumread you

[Infinity 324]

2062. i like the pressing here and asking for clarification, it's something i find myself doing a lot.
i need to find time to read though, because at this point i'm missing a good portion of the game.
2079: i don't know whether to be flattered or annoyed, because i haven't put very much of myself into this game yet. :>
but seriously, what does this mean? it's not really a read so much as a statement of 'Chara isn't doing anything stupid'.

2062 seems reasonably fakeable. I'd love to hear other reasoning

You're right that my comment didn't mean much, I suppose. You just seem to be asking questions that lead in a productive direction.

[Infinity 324]

If you don't scumread me, then Slysly + gazers IS out of the question.

It's flattering that you think it's out of the question for me to have wrong reads, but unfortunately incorrect.

[Infinity 324]

PM fire is wrt what happens to the phone abilities when you block someone

I'm not sure I understand the question. We block someone's phone abilities (which includes items), they fail if they used any that phase. Just like role abilities.
-Nahdia

Ok, so you can't block anything during the day right?

And you're non-consecutive right?

[Infinity 324]

You seem paranoid about people scumreading you sly

At least twice I've expressed mild suspicion of you and then you were like "then lynch me fucker" like I would ever not vote the guilty

[Infinity 324]

First quote is a good point

Second quote was when star was fucked anyway

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why the guilty wouldn't bus as it was going down, that seems like a reasonable play to me

Fortunately for you I'm neither of the 3 options you mentioned.

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why the guilty wouldn't bus as it was going down, that seems like a reasonable play to me

Mathblade brought up something weak about Dunn being scum with Stargazers, so I went and iso'd Dunn and found something with a little meat left on the bone. That's the only reason "bussing" even came up. There may be bussing that happened that I haven't noticed yet.

I'm saying its a reasonable possibility that you are being bussed