NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

[Rainbowdash]

@mod

- Im replacing my hydra since im the only one posting at this point.

Antilles and Jen die now

Vote Jen

Most obvious dies first.

Serra passive "oh I dont like KBW" posts, then we have Jen calling KBW scummy then falling back to "oh he is V/LA" using that as justification to vote every counter to the lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

@mod

- I have no contact from zoraster for over two weeks. Im just going to replace myself since ive made all but one or two posts and dont want to log onto a third account for this game when I dont need it for anything else and am not getting roleplay/etc fun out of it either.

I still think Underachievers are scum.

Its somewhere inbetween for me. He would fall near the end of a shortlist, but we get things like:

vote:DGB

I'd rather not though anything with Klick and MO on it.

Which make me fully happy to lynch him because its kinda like KBW. If he thinks like this as town he may as well

be

scum so is a "so he cant hurt us" type lynch. Also the calling of MO and Klick scum... sigh. Definition of insanity. Also that he apparently just called all of MO-Klick-DGB scum as reason to not vote Jen who he abstained on giving reads of.

Basically TUA is never going to be a bad lynch if they refuse to reevaluate anything. More likely he is just bad town to ignore untill they get smarter or just sheep. If Jen is scum though we lynch him into the ground ten second flat.

@Titan - DGB isnt town for the way she treated KBW at all, but I think she is town for how KBW treated her. Im not sure the first post he comes back like he did is a stunningly bad OMGUS vote on a partner. There are far better town picks, but there are quite a few better scum picks.

[Rainbowdash]

@ Dashie

How likely do you think it is that at least one scum was on Key's wagon to bus him for town cred?

When he had a lot of votes initally, high since it was policy. The final wagon (especially the few that came after my vote) low as simply not posting would have gotten somepony else lynched. Now that all goes up in smoke with a MO/TUA scumflip since its swapping scum lynch for scum lynch, but if MO and TUA are town than zdn, Bulb, RM are all above average town picks to the point where I would say no more than one scum and the O/U is probably .5

Its probably easier/better to try and base reads off of KBW actions and votes. Thats why Bulb is town, and DGB is somewhat likely town, and mayyybe TUA but that was self-preservation and TUA is TUA. Utility lynches are never all that bad.

Jen/Antilles need so much dead though right now.

[Rainbowdash]

There's nothing town about voting someone when they have no internet access and say they may need to replace out. Even when it's by a scum read. On Day 1 there is little information to go on and so, by necessity, scum reads are formed on the flimsiness of reasons. While KBW turned out to be scum, you shouldn't judge decisions by their outcomes. I did the right thing by voting someone who would actually be able to see and respond to that vote.

But you passed on a vote of a scumread who would be V/LA until deadline to vote the player who "didnt stick out to you" just two posts in iso before. I can understand if we are talking weeks to deadline and its two players you read as scum, but avoidance of the wagon how you did reads very poorly. Especially when you consider how serra acted towards KBW and how he was scummy either way.

Also what MM said is a good point, you jumpe from TUA to MO because TUA was "fighting for survival" which is exactly what MO was doing. Only player getting votes not doing that was KBW, who while V/LA was a noteable scumread of yours. What made the TUA vote bad but MO vote good since your reasoning doesnt quite hold up.

You could always just vote Antilles though. He is also scum and I would be willing to kill him if thats what we want to do first.

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KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.

VOTE: Metal Overlord

This is the guy that needs to die right now.

I would also be more or less fine lynching MO since he is basically the only viable lynch KBW ignored. Plus if MO is scum it lends a ton of credence to DGB town and (sadly) TUA town.

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You could always just vote Antilles though. He is also scum and I would be willing to kill him if thats what we want to do first.

Why Antilles and not some other lurker?

Because Antilles is scum for game related reasons, not because he is lurking.

One of Jen/Antilles/MO works for today. Given that Antilles isnt getting votes, Jen/MO would make awesome dual wagons since if one is scum other gets moved to town camp.

Im thinking basically it something like:

Town:

Titan
DGB
Bulb

Town-ish:

AA
MM
HD

Nulll:

RM
Zdnek
TUA

Scum-ish:

Robo
Klick
TL

Scum:

Antilles
Jen
MO

Although as stated no more than one of Jen/MO. Kinda awesome how it all breaks into groups of three like that. Town-ish and Null are most fluid sections and kinda depend on how I feel at the moment.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

Just want to think on something

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Whoever was the one that apparently likes meta - What is MOs ideas on bussing? There is a stunning amount of ignoring between him and KBW that goes both ways, and newbie scum (KBW) tends to ignore partners.

Can we hold on a Jen lynch for a sec? Really the fact that all my more null-ish ones love it and town reads are looking elsewhere is kinda freaking me out right now even though logically it still looks like a decent vote. its just the fact that if MO is scum Jen is almost for sure town that I dont want to risk losing a hard town read to a lynch if at all possible.

Antilles (which whoever said is chk is right if you check some basic stuff) is also an awesome vote.

We need a voting block of awesome.

DGB, Titan and Bulb sounds like a good spot to start.

@Jen wagon

- Can one of you just jump off for a second. I dont want a lynch quite yet while I figure stuff out.

[Rainbowdash]

What of the AtE nature of that sentence makes the Slot town?

Its the looking forward + composition really more than AtE which is a player tell and not alignment tell.

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@MO - Give me everything you two discussed on KBW.

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Vote Antilles

Best lynch.

Still think KBW was more likely to ignore all partners than vote partners.

[Rainbowdash]

Still think DGB is town. KBW is probably one of the worst players currently on the site (seriously - read any game he has played) and I think its just more likely that he didnt do some wierd bus. DGB can be annoying to play with at times with the whole selfvote type stuff, but I just think that slot is going to be town.

Would love to see some reasoning here as to why that slot is scum.

I would be willing to go with MO lynch too. If DGB and TUA are town MO is probably scum. His whole "im getting lynched" play was somewhat scummy and it just really bugs me that KBW ignored him entirely when melting down.

[Rainbowdash]

Death list: Antilles and Klick
Maybe death: Molla, MM (this one is new), MO, Jen(?)

Lets go something like that

[Rainbowdash]

Why is everyone pushing someone who will be replaced?

Because that doesnt change the fact that I think the slot is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Can I ask how I placed a spot on the death list, aside from not really doing much?

D1 camp on TUA while attacking (yet never voting) DGB paired with early passive defense to later ignoring KBW.

Then how the D1 attacking of DGB really hasnt rolled over to today bugs me too.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm sad that nobody even wants to know anything about me they just want to call me scum and move on

It's just like high school all over again ;-;

well you are replacing a somewhat scummy player and look kinda scum yourself.

Whats with basically everypony calling DGB scum either way?

[Rainbowdash]

MM wagon is something I would support, but interestingly enough if Antilles is scum I will quicklynch MM into the ground.

Really as MM-Antilles dont really work with DGB though, a noticeable part of my vote is DGB preservation.

Anypony who kils Antilles with me gets free "I will defend you" pass for tomorrow. Unless you are MM or MO, then you dont get that pass. Maybe Klick doesnt either. All my other non-town reads jump on though. Scum reads too really, I mean, I guess thats kinda awesome.

But really Antilles dies. If he is scum MM dies instantly next.

[Rainbowdash]

Why wait for a replacement of a slot I think is scum?

What attention too? He has four votes, DGB and Jen have been getting "more attention" than he is.

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Anypony who kils Antilles with me gets free "I will defend you" pass for tomorrow. Unless you are MM or MO, then you dont get that pass. Maybe Klick doesnt either.

Well this is motivating

But yeah, been really busy, and likely will stay that way for awhile. Will try to get down thoughts when there are gaps I can post in.

If he is scum you get an instant free pass. Also as I was writing that I started realizing there are exceptions, then I didnt want to deal with coming up with a new "yall should sheep" post... so that happened.

Heck if he is scum everypony but MM gets an instant free pass. MM gets a 7 post death.

[Rainbowdash]

@MM/Antilled (if you are chk) - Have you two ever played with eachother or anything like that?

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Also

@Zed - I will blame that on this "human" language barrier. Ment to say any way and not either way. Quite often I start rewording stuff in my head and then end up with a sentance that makes no sense even before spelling and grammar are factored into it.

[Rainbowdash]

So I need to give this game more time than I have over the next few days...

Antilles is by no means "super obvious town" or any type of a driving force behind KBW lynch. Should be obvious but needs to be said. He actually still is probably scum if MM is scum, and actually somewhat more likely town if MM is town. Still shortlist but more likely town as if MM (or him) flipped town that would give me more than the credit I needed to bus him into the ground hard.

The biggest paranoia I have over him and MM is how FAST MM came to the conclusion that he was chk. Ive seen chk a few times (granted not super recent) but that was a very impressive CORRECT call. Even players im familiar with it takes a bit to get confident of without something obvious from an alt (ie Derpy Hooves alt which I called correctly in signup queue a year ago or so). It enough to almost make me thing MM would know thatbecause hydra heads posted in the scum QT, or at least chk did alerting MM to who was in it.

Either way, one of MM and Antilles flip scum the other dies so fast its stunning. With focus shifting on MM and Antilles trying to bus may be correct play (even though there is lack of good play) since buying a couple of days at least accomplishes something. Not really sure what to make of chk actually ignoring most of the scummy MM posts in making the case either, sounded thrown together more than anything else.

Jen feeling more town makes me more happy with looking at TUA again. Since Nero stopped posting and its been mastin I like the slot more but still dont want them around late.

@mod

- Im out of town (assume no access) late Thursday to probably Sunday.

[Rainbowdash]

I think the "don't vote a player being replaced" is as dumb as "don't vote a player cause he's always stupid."

Ironically both reasons the KBW lynch was difficult.

Antilles is a slightly better lynch than MM but either are decent ones since there is a good chance of both being scum.

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Really?

Just... really?

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You still think Antilles is the best lynch?

Im more debating even trying to read what happened. I started to then I realized its the exact kind of stuff thats more or less unreadable for me and just annoying.

If I can get something like 100 word summaries from Titan, TUA, DGB, MM, Jen and HD that would be nice because I could actually stand a chance at understanding what has been said.

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Yeah I dont have the time to go through this game the way im thinking that I need to go through it untill I get back from V/LA.

Leaving my vote where it is because its still a good vote. Second (rapidly shifting) tier has: MM, HD, MO right now.

Can we all have calmed down by the time I get back though?

@DGB - Im still siding with TUA as null to leaning town. KBW is a

really really

bad player. Like to the point where I am half convinced he is somepony who is competent just trolling. I literally finshed a game where as town after responding to a player about who the NK was KNOWING who it was forgot who got killed within a page or two. I dont think he is the type of player who would actually bus when he has other options (MO). Thats why I actually think MO is somewhat decent for a scumpick still.

Yes Nero part is very difficult to play with, but you dont utility lynch the leaning town unless there are almost all other townreads.

You should vote Antilles though, he has the highest chance of being lynched and is scum.

Also somepony can look up why players jumped off the Antilles wagon? Im pretty sure he didnt get to L-2 for being replaced. It dropped by what... 5 players? over/under would be 1.5 there.

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Like to the point where I am half convinced he is somepony who is competent just trolling.

Really?

I have seen him as town.

He is really that bad. There are players who are weak, then there are players who almost have to be trying to be that weak. It would not in the least bit be a surprise to see him as somepony who is just screwing around instead of trying to win.

You should be voting Antilles though, actually looked at his MM "case". Its bad. Its actually bad enough to drop me from "MM or Antilles" to "just antilles".

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Ms Marangal, why is Jennifer scum? In your own words.

How about you actually say why you think MM is scum? Your only reasoning has really been "tranparently scummy posts" and then the 1222 breakdown which even if right is laughably bad. Im a bit confused because you are missing a WHOLE lot of reasons to legitimately call MM scum and instead are just doing whatever this is.

Besides, with your whole "I got the KBW" lynch thing you ignore the whole part where you jumped away from the wagon and started pushing TUA near deadline instead (when KBW was second biggest wagon).

[Rainbowdash]

BLEH!

I need to think on this.

Antilles being scum means that TUA is town. TUA is more likely scum than DGB just comparing the two though (although both are town probably). Antilles-scum also means DGB is probably town. Which is basically what my reads on those two already are.

Im going to spend the hour or so thinking about this, but if we can quicklynch ANtilles that would be awesome.

Seriously look at his "oh TUA is town guys" post with a few hours to deadline that does absolutely nothing to actually stop TUA from getting lynched. He isnt voting DGB (or even talking about her), just still complaining that nopony is following his non-existant case.

Seriously, we get like two votes from each wagon on Antilles and we can actually lynch scum, right now we are basically guarenteed to hit town.

[Rainbowdash]

Antilles being scum

First, TUA.

Then we can decide between Ant, Bulb and Titan.

TUA is prob-town if Antilles is scum though. He really calls TUA town and doesnt even do something like vote you here? Nah, if TUA was scum I think he shuts up and doesnt post or just ignores the whole thing. Antilles being scum means you are both town, why weak defend a partner in a nightless game where you are down?

Im not intersted in voting between two town reads. So yeah, im staying where I am. I mean, closest reasoning to voting one I can come up with is TUA "because it makes Antilles more obviously scum".

@Bulb - Both are town. It really doesnt matter much in the end. TUA has been somewhat scummy though at times so would vote him, im seriously not voting either though.

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RBD, what do you think of DGB's recent behavior?

That she still is town.

They are both town because Antilles is scum. Seriously what town goes "hey this arguement between the two wagons right at deadline, this one is town" and then proceed to not vote either. No town. Scum might pull that move though.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah, but he also declared a town read on DGB when he first returned, and I don't know if that still stands. If it does, then he's not voting either wagon for the same reason you aren't.

Would be nice to hear if thats where he stands.

But I still don't understand how your incredibly strong scumread should blind you to the actions of other players. Even if you don't think she's scum, you should still have an opinion on her actions. That's all I want.

I dont know what you mean by this. I think her actions mean she is town. If you want me to comment on something specific say what you want me to comment on.

[Rainbowdash]

Bit surprised at that flip, but it works.

Jen or Antilles.

Just pick an order here.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote Jen

Nah I think we do this first.

Antilles actually may be town even though it would be fun to lynch him. He doesnt make it really late in the game by any means, but he may be town.

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Anti-scum wagon day one:

Metal Overlord - Bulbazak, Underachivers, Antilles, Jennifer

Anti-scum wagon day two:

DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI, Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak

So probably two of Bulb/Antilles/Jen/Titan/DCL here. Really I think it may just be a "kill them all" point in time.

I say Jen to start.

[Rainbowdash]

It would be awesome if this really ends Antilles-Jen-MM or something.

[Rainbowdash]

Anti-scum wagon day one:

Metal Overlord - Bulbazak, Underachivers, Antilles, Jennifer

Anti-scum wagon day two:

DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI, Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak

So probably two of Bulb/Antilles/Jen/Titan/DCL here. Really I think it may just be a "kill them all" point in time.

I say Jen to start.

Just wanted to point out how bad this is. RBD, this may be a matter of playstyle clash, but at the very minimum, that's lazy, and at the most it's scummy, since you can point at this and avoid all responsibility for any and all mislynches that occur. Your obsession with policy lynches over actual scumhunting is increasing to the point of stupidity. Actual scumreads with actual scumtells, please and thank you.

So out of six players that were on the direct counter to scum (or in one case SvSvMO) wagons, only TUA was on there?

I could maybe believe just one, but since its over multiple wagons and days I lean two. Particularly when you look at you and Antilles who has been on the wrong wagon twice in two days.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I want to think a little here.

Will say though that on a gut level HD is just really really really bugging me here. Something feels way off.

Maybe im approaching this game the wrong way and need to look at it as I would if I were scum.

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, what's buggin ya about HD?

He doesnt feel town to me. Last game I was in with him he replaced into a slot I was reading as scum and turned that read around. This one despite being in the right place more often than not, im not at all feeling town on him and thats setting off a bunch of flags since decent players I tend to more be able to catch by merits of "not reading town" instead of "reading scum".

That and there are quite a few instances of him accidently calling players town when he means scum, and that one where he put himself as red just makes me uncomfortable. I screw up the town/scum calling occasionally, but when im scum its something that I just do by mistake a whole lot more, especially when im trying to make a case on town.

That again loops me to what im thinking about in approaching this like I was scum, I probably would have done some hardbussing here. Really hard bussing with KBW (not sure how much I would have perused policy but I would have been making him dead). This game is so town slanted that scum probably should just shed off a couple of their players early to try and build the credit of a few who they want to make a deep run. Again HD pops to mind of somepony who is playing the game similar to what I would have done as scum. Makes the whole "doesnt bus" thing funny, which while I trend not to I will full on take down a partner if I think its needed, because bussing is needed in this game as scum probably isnt going to sweep, and with KBW being scum he is an early out, TUA getting votes makes him a midgame at worst out.

Its one of those facts of Nightless games, scum needs to find a way into the town camp early or they are doomed. Reminds me of a scum game in nightless (NVM setup) where I ended up hard bussing my dayvig partner day two and then basically getting free reign to do whatever I wanted for the rest of the game, even getting next to no flack for very harshly defending a partner for most of the game until it was time to cut him loose.

So yeah im looking at this from a different perspective around now and will figure out what im doing.

It does flip around a few reads though, because think of players (assuming DGB town) who were pushing that wagon over TUA. Its actually poor play as scum to do that because DGB gets lynched, then TUA is a good lynch chance by D4 at the very latest and the defenders get reamed. Late move defenses of TUA are actually more likely to come from town just because they know that TUA is a doomed slot so taking the town credit is better unless they seriously believe that a DGB lynch would manage to diffuse a wagon on TUA perminantly. This could be my different method of thinking again, but players like Antilles who did those moves are probably town.

Vote HD

I will try and see what I can piece together but really this is where my gut is taking me at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Antilles being scum means that TUA is town. TUA is more likely scum than DGB just comparing the two though (although both are town probably). Antilles-scum also means DGB is probably town. Which is basically what my reads on those two already are.

You should have also quoted all of this one, since he also tries to set up Antilles to look scummy after TUA flips.

Where in this do I say TUA-scum means Antilles-scum? This literally is saying that either of TUA/DGB scum means Antilles is scum or vice versa.

I would be more or less fine Bulb vote, but I just got this read on HD that I want to at least look at. Looking at a "this is how I would have played as scum" is a good way for me to recover and get good reads at times. HD is playing very similarly to how I owuld have played scum here so that really makes me uncomfortable.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah okay

Vote Bulb

@DGB

- Just do me a favor and read over HD. I really dont think he is town here. He feels town as town, im not feeling town here. He ends up in the right spot when it looks like that is what will happen, but there is a whole lot of testing waters first.

[Rainbowdash]

OtterHorse is town as well

KBW is still scum.

HD isn't bus'ing KBW

and

TUA. In a nightless. No.

Why not?

That probably was correct scumplay. KBW was dead D3 at the latest pregame. TUA he called scum, backed way off untill TUA lynch became likely and then just sorta left his vote there. D2 he backed off TUA attacking just about every other viable wagon untill it became TUA vs "town read" where he resigns to joining the wagon.

I doubt KBW and TUA got powerbussed by all of the scum, but at least one scum was smart enough to realize with a team that has KBW and NC on it, you need to play long run scumgame because its not something you are going to win in a clean sweep which unless something brilliant presents itself as keeping partners alive probably isnt a viable tactic

[Rainbowdash]

Because I'm not going to dignify your posts with a response from here on out.

You should stop acting like a real life scumbag and vote instead of just doing the "I agree with all the wagons" play.

Also absolutely no ongoing comments. Ive seen two scenarios where entirely offhand comments (okay one was kinda blatant but still game broke) where some small thing forced an ethic driven replace out.

[Rainbowdash]

Syryana is more in the "if the game is still going" camp for lynches here.

HD is still scum. Klick is scum. Bulb is scum.

I think it something like that.

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Why is Bulb scum Rainbow?

Not wanting to abandon DGB vote yesterday even though if he did leave the wagon the deadline lynch (TUA) would not be changed. If he got the TUA voters to leave the TUA wagon though the lynch would become Antilles. Basically camping where he was without further knowledge of how many would leave TUA for Antilles (he would need three votes + his) he stuck on DGB while seeming to prefer Antilles.

Also sheeping town reads. Dont like how all my questionables are voting Syryana.

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Ugh...

Yeah I may have to devote part of this weekend to getting HD lynched.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote HD

@MO - Im actually really interested in seeing why you are willing to call him town off meta here. Ive played with him three times (twice as scum one as town), as town he replaced into a slot I read as scum and turned that one around fairly fast. One as scum he came off as obv-town, the other one I was able to get him lynched (although I was kinda surprised at being able to).

This one he is NOT reading town, and he is commiting a bunch of me-like scumtells which just paranoias me up a whole lot. There are some players you lynch when you read as scum, there are some players you lynch when you cant read them as town. HD may trend to the second group, I have close to zero town read there (for the first time with him ever) and somewhat of a scumread.

@HD - Do you see meta by difference as a valid way to use it? For example "Player X was scum in this past game, they arent reading the same here so player X is town"?

Im not quite on the same page as Titan, but I would lynch DGB in F3 over a few others as it stands. Again scum would be foalish not to bus in this type of situation, especially with lynchbait-VI KBW and hydra thats half lynchbait (NC).

[Rainbowdash]

Good to know I think...

Explain your D1 with KBW though, especially with relation to me jumping hard on him early as policy lynch worthy. I know you have seen him play, but when I actually come in swinging hard at him as being a strong candidate for policy lynch, especially if he is kinda scummy - im actually more than a bit surprised that you didnt agree let alone really even notice it given timeframes.

Your basic mentions of him D1:

Post is bad (71)
He is still scum (actually this is the first time you call him scum - and its happening when im calling for a policy lynch)
*ugh I need to read my own iso more... ive done that "call correct pairing" more than once and forget about it later*

When you

know

the type of player he is... I just dont really see you ignoring him as much as you do as town. If nothing else to give some sort of agreemnt or counter insight on him since I dont think many if any other players here have been in a game with him.

Going off that "own iso" thing im going to move Jen to somewhat solid town. Usually when im getting one thing right im getting quite a bit right. Im also going to continue to call HD scum for when I said "Jen is town, im voting KBW for now though" again challenging that without really giving any other counter reads to those two (and KBW was apparently scum to him)

Plus go look at 1278/1281

Backs off TUA to give mastin a chance to prove himself, Vote Jen, After TUA votes Jen "withholds what he thinks until after lynch"

Then tried to delay TUA lynch a day when first pushed by DGB...
Backs DGB for about next large amount of time ignoring anything else...
Eventually decides to continue to back DGB and sheep TUA when its obvious thats his only option...

He really is scum, if it takes a couple hours of me sitting down this weekend to prove it thats what it will take.

Im gunna say Syryana is town, Bulb is more 50-50ish, im not going back there. Maybe would back MM lynch, probably not.

[Rainbowdash]

HD, Zdenek and myself.

Three townies.

Oh wow... no

Like no way ever no.

I mean, first we need two, not three.

Second only time you and Zd can come into the discussion is "who is the one that dies in F3 if it gets there"

Really only way I think HD is town is if Titan is scum, but Titan is probably town, so HD is scum.

Its Antilles and Molla at the end. Antilles is derp town but all he needs to do is not kill Molla. Thats without flips even, getting scum from a couple of ponies knocks them out for others.

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RBD who actually thinks you are scum btw

DGB seems to be passively calling me scum. May be because im calling HD scum and she is trying to scare me off of him, but this pony is not really one who will back down from something im confident in.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm sure a lot of you will shed tears and disagree with me, but I'm rather certain that Titan outburst was just theater from a frustrated scum.

I think its more "other player" than alignment based. Probably one of those things where it may have a slight trend but will balance more towards alignment distribution in the long run.

Only few times ive melted down more are due to who im playing with and not alignment. That and times where the mod basically screwed over my team (actually happened twice now...).

@BB - Im something like

Would Vote:
HD
MM

Wouldnt Stop Lynch but Dont Want Lyched:
DCL
Bulb
Klick

Kinda Town:
Syryana
Zd
MO

Have Reservations But are "Town":
Titan
DGB
MO
AA

Town:
Antilles
Molla
Jen

[Rainbowdash]

Also GIFs for "...well fuck" reaction are non existant.

Theres a pony for that



even if it doesnt loop really

Vote MM

Still will get up HD-scum case this weekend.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't get why Syryana & Bulbazak are getting derailed.

Because im trying to derail a wagon on Syryana for somepony I actually want lynched.

@DGB - Why is MM town? Go. For somepony who is all into "scum doesnt bus" MM is almost what seems like an ideal vote for you. Look at all that "yeah KBW/TUA is kinda scummy - vote elsewhere" going on.

[Rainbowdash]

Hey RBD. Post 2041. What. The. Fuck.

What.

I have you as town because even though I dont particularly like you or anything, chances are you are town.
Jen I went back and read more and she is actually a fairly decent town pick, especially if some of my other picks (MM/HD) are scum. There is a lot of natural progression in reads there that is going to be hard to backtrack on if she is scum.

If you want me to respond to something in particular, actually say what you are looking for a response to.

[Rainbowdash]

Get Bulb wagon going and we can talk.

Im not touching Syryana, thats like "null scum" central for who is on it. HD scum either way, again will get the time to prove it this weekend. I kinda feel like im watching me-scum when I read him.

[Rainbowdash]

Get Bulb wagon going and we can talk.

I'm trying I'm trying

Why don't you help

I like the MM wagon somewhat more. It its the only way to keep Syryana alive I will but im more interested to see what happens here because MM-Bulb dont make a ton ton of sense together so I would rathre try and make it between the two of them dropping the more likely town Syryana off (even though yall think he is scum)

[Rainbowdash]

Well come back and Antilles and MM are probably getting modkilled.

Fun.

[Rainbowdash]

when's the last time that you've seen someone get mod-killed for making a sig bet?

Players tend to be modkilled for breaking what are very clear site rules. Ive modkilled for similar before, as it instantly has effect of players perception on the slot. Its like ongoing games.

Vote Bulb

Still in the "not syryana" mode.

[Rainbowdash]

Players tend to be modkilled for breaking what are very clear site rules. Ive modkilled for similar before, as it instantly has effect of players perception on the slot. Its like ongoing games.

That's not an answer.

Better question is "when was the last time before this I saw somepony make a bet"?

Last time I saw anything along the bets/promises line it did result in a modkill though. Either way, its just waiting to see what happens at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Ive modkilled a player in one of my games for "I promise im town - if not I will never play another game". Its one of those things that once it happens the damage is done and the slot is compramised.

Its a modkillable (or at least force-replace) offense though. Im very much so a pureist in my style and what I allow. Very straightforward, respectable to the game and the governing rules, so yeah im going to point it out to the mod at the other LMs. Especially when the result is enough to make me move my vote off MM.

Back to the game though, Bulb is easily the lynch over Syryana here.

[Rainbowdash]

If town Antilles and MM should start giving out all their reads though.

[Rainbowdash]

what the fudge?
VOTE: Bulbazak

Respect for the game happened. Thats what. MM basically confirmed herself as town with that reaction.

Vote Bulb

[Rainbowdash]

DGB & HD are town thanks to my skim of keyblade whoever.
DGB being town and unkillable tells me that reading this game will be sort of useless.

Oh eww... HD is probably most likely to be scum in the entire game (which is a reason im not too keen on Syr wagon, those two dont fit all that well).

You replaced likely scum though so... yeah.

At least you are pretty readable when scum so thats a good thing. Chances are I can confirm my Klick read within a day or two.

[Rainbowdash]

@Nacho - Im assuming you are calling HD scum for the post KBW complains he is attacking him. That's actually a good reason as to why HD is scum. I was recently in a game with HD, and AA, and KBW. What makes that post super weird to me is that HD is the one who KBW compains about calling him scum - when both myself and AA actually were voting him at that point. It makes far more sense that this is scum complaining that his partner is maybe bussing him than scum complaining that town is attacking him pulling a meta card when BOTH of his votes at that point are from players he has played with in the same game.

[Rainbowdash]

So!

That's probably town posting.

Vote HD

Both wagons are on town, time to do other stuffs. Also while I don't agree that DGB is the best lynch, she is far and away not a bad lynch. Just flying blind she would probably be around halfway point for me at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

You do know im not stupid scum right?

Basically the only couple games ive lost as scum have been mod screwing me over (UT for worst mod 2013) and deciding to listen to a partner about a NK against all of my instinct which essentially lost the game. Abandoning a wagon of Bulb would basically be a death blow without the guarantee that im going to keep him (and basically all other partners) alive for a long period of time.

Its a town post. Scum inst going to elaborate that much on middle ground stuff when putting up an "im dead now" type post. They will harp on strong reads at both ends of the spectrum while leaving the middle more convoluted for the chance that they live they actually have freedom of reads.

Bulb and Syryana are both town enough to not lynch them. I would almost just kill Syryana because that makes me HD case a whole lot stronger here when he flips town.

DGB is actually looking a whole lot worse right now, sorta like scum realizing that she is losing some form of control on a game. Her scum reads quickly are matching up to the ones who aren't agreeing with her while town reads are those who will either not challenge her or are sheeping her.

Its scumtactic 101 in this game, if players think you are town then you have no real fear if you keep them alive. Ive crushed a nightless game as scum doing the exact same thing. Become leader with powerbus, start taking down those who aren't going to listen to you or have reads that will create conflict.

When Bulb flips town its time to take the reigns from scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Its a town post. Scum inst going to elaborate that much on middle ground stuff when putting up an "im dead now" type post. They will harp on strong reads at both ends of the spectrum while leaving the middle more convoluted for the chance that they live they actually have freedom of reads.

You're pretending to be easily fooled. You need to work on that if you want to be convincing.

And youre pretending to be overly confident.

That's one of those "yep that's town" type of posts. Its focused in areas scum will almost never focus on when they get in trouble. How about answering why its a scumpost, there are quite a few parts in there that aren't coming from most scum that I see and could call it a town post for quite a few reasons. There literally is only one thing that makes me twitch a little and given his play its something that I expect him to say as town, even though its unsettling.

[Rainbowdash]

I started to write a post to answer yours, but you're scum, so there's no point arguing with you or your buddy Bulbascum.

Actually im betting its because you couldn't come up with one that quickly.

Or you could take a page from TUAs book and just ignore it with a dismissive comment like that. Common scum tactic.

[Rainbowdash]

mo we're not lynching dgb tomorrow btw

Yeah we are probably going to lynch HD either way because in the offchance that Bulb actually is scum it makes HD way way more likely to be scum than DGB.

Bulb town (expected) puts the HD/DGB/ZD/Nacho all around same level of who dies next.

[Rainbowdash]

Really. Humph. Like I promised, no gloating...

I will gloat though.

How about you start listening to me if you are town? If you are scum please juts continue to not listen and try to rack up mislynches. Which Syryana (while not as likely town as Bulb post that one post of his) is still somewhat likely town.

Vote HD

Nacho is also not playing to his town meta yet. That's pretty concerning.

Zd is probably town in the offchance Syryana is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Let start breaking down HD scum though already

1) KBW points to him. As I said before, I was just in a game with HD, AA and KBW. In the early game here where both myself and AA are attacking KBW and HD is expressing passive suspicion of KBW, KBW actually only seems to notice that HD is calling him scum and has a mini freakout. Him only concentrating on HD to me speaks more of scum who is being bussed and has no clue why as opposed to scum who is being called scum by town as two other players who they could use the exact same defense for are already voting them.

2) Despite calling KBW and TUA scum early, HD basically avoids both of those wagons from about page 15 to 25. In that time he is on the large TAM wagon. He is on the large MO wagon, and then hops over to TUA right when it gains a ton of steam over the MO one. At the same time when I try to kick up the KBW wagon at the end game - he takes a swipe at me for doing that after not really saying anything while camping TUA.

3) Day three post one... just wow

KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.

VOTE: Metal Overlord

This is the guy that needs to die right now.

So much scum in this post.

First - he was voting TUA at the end of D1. If he assumed his reads were right, he would be right back there, but instead he moved to MO. Unless he wants to argue that MO was scummier to him than TUA, which makes no sense since MO was a very viable D1 lynch. He just was trying to bus TUA day one, that failed and he decided to go back to pushing MO instead. He lists TUA as a "possible lynch" but ignores him.

4) TUA read goes *poof*. Suddenly he is all about just sheeping DGB (who is wrong about basically everything early D2). He likes Antilles lynch, MO, Jen, sorta Titan, sorta Bulb, sorta MM. That's a whole lot of town with no mention of TUA for somepony who "only got more confident" in their reads and was voting scum at the end of D1.

5) He DOES circle back to call players scum

with

TUA. That's basically his only mention of TUA from early D2 to late D2. TUA still just kept as "backburnered scum" though. Even when trading snipes with TUA he seems to be more interested in making him look like scum with Antilles than anything else. Don't worry though, he votes Jen. Also his next few posts should have resulted in his instant horrible death.

6)

You didn't answer my question on why Antilles is town.

Every single post that slot has made?

My lynchlist is DGB, TheLurker, Jennifer, and MO. I have varying degrees of townreads on every other slot, but no townreads (and in fact rather strong scumreads) on these four. This isn't hard to see; it's pretty much in every single post of mine D2.

1st part is extremely unconvincing. Okay Mastin, time to put this to the test.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jennifer

Prove whether you're scum or not.

VOTE: Jennifer.

I'm withholding what I think of this vote on purpose.

I will explain it after today's lynch.

VOTE: TUA

hold off on this for a day, I want to test something

vote:DGB

Mastin is fine with this.

I have a town read on the Ant slot.

LYNCH ALL FUCKING LIARS!!!

VOTE:HD

Hey, don't go calling me a liar when

one of your own heads

can't find this one sentence in an obscure post either.

I mean seriously in the entire context of this conversation you call me scum for saying I don't remember you actually stating a townread on Antilles?

TUA is claiming scum

Not quite

I have a theory on them being scum though, and it involves a Jen scumflip

First he votes Jen, TUA follows him. DGB sees this as scummy and jumps on TUA. HD immediately reacts and suddenly is against the TUA lynch. TUA is suddenly only scum after a Jen flip, she should lynch Jen instead. How much do you want to bet Jen is town here and HD was looking for a Jen lynch so he could start lobbing up other mislynches (Bulb, Titan, etc) as its enough of a detractor from a TUA vote for a bit.

He is showing a WHOLE lot of resistance for a TUA lynch for somepony who usually sheeps "big scumread wagons" (his reason for voting TUA D1).

Eventually he realizes though that his only choices are TUA and townreads he has been vocal about - so he backs off of everything and just jumps TUA wagon.

6.5) Its the "his name is red" VC thing again. This one really bugs me because one... he had to intentionally put his name is red since there is no red on either side. Two, I mess stuff up like this (wrong colors, inversing town/scum when talking) as scum a LOT more than I do something like that as town.

7) His case on Syryana slot. The "this is every post they have made and why its scummy" is something I see from scum a whole lot more than I see from town. Its just a way to increase the volume of a case.

8) "No Victory" type tells. Like where Syryana voted TUA over DGB. That's a scumtell. So the DGB wagon is where all the town were and TUA got powerbussed by everypony? No. This is scum who is just trying to make tells wherever he can.

So yeah, can we kill HD yet? He is scum who basically has been trying to avoid being on his buddies wagons until pressed into it while doing his best to just line up players to be scum with them (at times without even bussing his partners yet) while he hides behind DGB.

If it takes Syryana also flipping town then that's what it takes, but HD is scum here. What say the neighsayers now?

[Rainbowdash]

RBD help me lynch Syryana and I will help you lynch HD.

He is town. I don't vote town reads.

[Rainbowdash]

So im going to bet Nacho is scum here.

I would be willing to vote there if that's what we want to do instead.

[Rainbowdash]

I could basically guarantee Nacho is scum at this point just on meta.

I would be fully willing to vote him or HD today.

[Rainbowdash]

I could basically guarantee Nacho is scum at this point just on meta.

I would be fully willing to vote him or HD today.

Is this my scum meta, then?

More of "nowhere near town meta"

[Rainbowdash]

I really don't like the "it's time to take the reigns from scum" speech because that suggests that scum is manipulating things and appeal to fear when really, it's just leaders leading.

Its not scum "manipulating things" its scum who has built up enough power to just lead things. You and HD (assuming syryana town) are amazingly strong scumbets, DGB is quite an above average pick as well for scum.

I don't like the complete lack of a reaction on the DGB case, considering DGB was one of her main scumspects for a while. You'd think it'd strengthen the Syr townread, or she would join in and give more of her DGB scumreasons, or... something.

Im actually still really curious about Syr. He isn't as strong of a townread as Bulb was, and me being wrong about it would make me have to change a few reads. Its like the TUA-DGB wagons yesterday, given that I didn't have enough of a read to do anything about it I would rather just let it develop on its own while pushing in my own direction. Its a curiosity, im almost at the point where I would be willing to lynch him just because it would solve a couple of nagging things for me if im wrong. If im right, I can strengthen cases that are targeting power players. Either way most of the DGB-scum case is D1 and D3 play, her treatment of Bulb is bad. Remember where I said "this is town, I can pick out a couple of tells easily - why is he scum" and then she just pushed the lynch through quickly? I go back and forth a lot, but she should NEVER make an endgame. Syryana-scum and she make it for a while, but a F3 is the worst spot to put her.

Scum don't like having their lynchbaits pulled away. Town just prove why they are still scum.

DCL is townish, but only because of RM. Usually I read RM as scum so the lack of scumread there makes me think slot is town.

Lets actually make things interesting though, because fun things are fun.

Vote Syryana

I just want to prove him town at this point to stop myself from going off a cliff if im wrong.

Out of the Nacho/HD/DGB group, Nacho is most likely scum regardless of the flip from Syryana (really - "well its not my scum meta either" is the response for me calling your meta?). HD is probably town to about a F3 if Syryana is scum and DGB is at least late-ish game town with that scum flip (and mid-game in all actuality with town flip).

[Rainbowdash]

I mean, Bulbazak just get lynched and you thought he was town? Why are you letting another townread go? Do you think town is going to listen to you after this one?

I don't think its possible for any other lynch to happen outside of maybe DGB who if Syryana is scum would be a bad lynch.

As I said, its somewhere between realizing the inevitable and realizing that if this read is wrong im probably going down the wrong road as is.

Also read more. Bulb was a strong town read. Syryana is a middling to town read.

[Rainbowdash]

Not Voting - Metal Overlord, RainbowDash

I don't know if it makes Syryana more scum, but it makes Zdenek, MMew, Nacho, DH, and Jennifer more "Syryana-buddy."

Well Nacho still is very much so scum regardless of what Syryana is. Its you and HD that are lynches if he is town and get put late game if he is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Should be easy to infer by reading anything ive been saying for a while but...

Syryana is an okay enough lynch because if he is scum I really need to turn quite a few things around fully and in all actuality the chances of him ever being able to get to a "he is cleared" status is next to none even if he is town because it would require scumflips from HD/DGB which im not getting without a Syryana flip. If he is scum though (don't think he is) it would actually allow me to amend reads and be able to be more productive.

Basically its an inevitable lynch that happening earlier rather than later would be a massive benefit for everypony, myself included.

Really can you think of any flip, at all, that would mean he doesn't get lynched over the next gameday or so? You lynch me and he dies next - only difference is that the thorn in the sides of you, HD, DGB has less ammo. Even if I was scum you lynch me and he dies next. Probably is same in reverse for lynching him - chances are high im getting lynched soon either way unless I can manage to take down you/HD/DGB first. Instead I would really rather have him lynched first since im pretty sure he is town and I think I can do more with the ammo his flip gives me to take down you three than he would be able to give the other way around.

[Rainbowdash]

if he is town because it would require scumflips from HD/DGB which im not getting without a Syryana flip.

You know that isn't true. I could turn the wagon around from Syryana if I wanted to, regardless of alignment. I'm fairly confident you're a better player than me, so I'm pretty sure you could turn around the wagon around from Syryana if you wanted to. But you don't. You were fine with Bulb going through, you were fine with Syryana going through. This whole illusion of "I'm going to lynch DGB tomorrow once Syryana flips town..." isn't based in any sort of reality. You point out that no flip will stop Syryana from getting lynched eventually, but if there is a flip to damn DGB, HD, me, it sure as hell isn't a Syryana town flip.

Actually I was in the process of trying to turn Bulb around by tearing down whatever DGB would be able to throw at it, but then Bulb got quickhammered while proving that the "obvious scum" post had a large amount of town tells. Remember where I was like "so why is it scummy" then she said "oh because it is", then I went to sleep, and Bulb died while I was sleeping? Basically was going for the "make leader of wagon look stupid, wagon falls apart" tactic, then you and MO killed him before I could make DGB look bad.

Im not confident enough in Syryana town to break apart the wagon. I actually moved off him in part due to that lack of confidence because of im wrong HD is town. Syryana et al hasn't been obviously town, and even though I have him as townish I know that if im wrong about it and get the wagon turned around, all im going to have done is chained quite a few mislynches that could have been avoided with a Syryana flip first. Mostly its the point DGB brought up about TUA probably calling at least one partner town.

Im not going to bet on Syryanas alignment with much force. I think he is town more than scum, but there is no good reason to break down his wagon when what looks like the only really likely option (DGB) is probably town if im wrong about him. While it would be fun to incite a meltdown - not having enough to go through with the lynch, or being wrong about Syryana, makes it very counterproductive.

[Rainbowdash]

Im not confident enough in Syryana town to break apart the wagon. I actually moved off him in part due to that lack of confidence because of im wrong HD is town.

why does everyone's alignments depend on each other? why can't HD and Syry be town together?

Because at that point it just becomes constant and blatant bussing which even players who like bussing probably wont do. Rule of hoof is a bus buys you a couple days, so even three busses probably cant take you to the endgame. It doesn't make him "100% awesome town" or anything but im not voting him because "he had to have just bussed everypony" or something like that, especially when he just pushed into the "bulb-syryana" chain which makes more sense from middling scum or at least somepony who has resigned giving control of the game to DGB (prob town in HD+syryana-scum case) and having them do the work for them hoping/assuming they will get wrong and bear the brunt of the damage.

Essentially read me in an older nightless as scum, build up lots of towncredit fairly early and chain myself with another vocal player who also got the same credits who is scum but in a way they will take fire over me. It ended in them getting lynched in a F3 endgame where nopony even batted an eye at me.

Scum cant really bus hard that long in this game. Credit wears off over time. Same reason I don't think HD-DGB are scum together. One is scum is HD hiding behind DGB using her to take the bullets or DGB trying to suck the town read away from HD.

@DGB - We may have played. I dunno, im one of the more prolific alt posters around. I think we have but its been a while? Either way all alts for me are different enough as at some point in my zillion step borderline skitzophrenic thought process I intentionally look at things different ways depending on what account im on.

[Rainbowdash]

IN other words, please stop the word salads.

Bullet points please.

If Syryana scum HD town. HD not dumb enough to bus that much. Don't work long run.

No more than one of HD-DGB scum. One as scum is using the other as shield.

I may have played with you. Not sure. Three accounts at/above 2k posts.

My insane ramblings work though more often than not. Ive actually had a situation where I replaced into a game with a bizzare mechanic, broke it instantly in a way that the mod didn't even understand fully and caught the entire scumteam in about two posts with most of the town thinking I had to be scum because of how complex my thought process was. Then the crash killed it.

Just imagine a busy intersection, add in a laser show, techno music and explosions but everything constantly is flowing in a way that makes sense when you start stripping away the extra stuff. Its why I can do my job fast but have immense problems coming up with a good email, getting rid of that extra stuff is difficult and time consuming because I start typing flow of thought type stuff. Like im starting to do now.

[Rainbowdash]

Kill Nacho

Then kill Syryana

If Syryana is town kill HD and/or DGB. Also go back and look at the TUA town reads.

You should have only one scum left at most there.

[Rainbowdash]

Also... you seem resigned a little early. Why is that?

This game has potential to lynch very very fast. We saw that when I tried to start breaking down the Bulb wagon and got two quick votes out of nowhere.

[Rainbowdash]

Syr/Nacho/3rd person.

I could fully buy this.

@Syryana - You should read my posts.

1) HD is not the best lynch because if you are scum he moves to one of the strongest town reads. When you mesh this with the fact that from the TUA reads you are a decent scumpick just in a PoE situation, im not interested in his lynch.
2) You need to be lynched. Period. It sheds so much light on the duo that is HD and DGB no matter what you are, at this point we are both more pieces of a puzzle that are going to need to be put into place to actually win the game. If you are town come to terms with it and start laying reads out, chain stuff, give conditionals, etc.
3) Nacho is a really really good scumpick. He was Klick (scummy) he is not at all playing to his town meta (scummy) and there are quite a few things that make him look bad when you consider the way you and Bulb got chained together as he was one of the 'yeah just lets quicklynch them both' group which is part of where I got twitchy over things.

What more do you want explained?

[Rainbowdash]

Hey Raibowdash, any thoughts on your buddy Master Mew? Why are you ignoring him?

Because I don't have a scum read on that slot.

2) You need to be lynched. Period. It sheds so much light on the duo that is HD and DGB no matter what you are

WUT

That's laughable, are you really going to tell me that there is a possible scenario where you aren't going to push a Syryana lynch tomorrow? Regardless of my flip? Him flipping town means that there is a really good chance one of you and HD are scum. Him flipping scum not so much.

[Rainbowdash]

I really hope you are scum and not just incapable of understanding this

You are going to be lynched this game. No matter what. Your chance of surviving to endgame is 0%. Your is. Mine is. A couple others argueably is. At least I have the extreme outside chance of a Nacho-scum flip helping but you have zero. Do you really think that if I flip scum you wont be lynched tomorrow? When I flip town you wont be lynched tomorrow?

Get that one through your head and you might be able to figure out more of what I am saying, because anything else and you are just... ugh.

DGB has basically proven that HD wont be lynched because she will get loud and this game listens to noise over logic, go figure this is why I hate large games and probably will perminantly be done playing them after this one - it just is more of the emotional/loud player haven than the thinkers one.

Combine that with if you are scum he becomes town, you are the right lynch. Voting him first accomplishes little if anything because it will be a waste of a vote, and since you are a middling read (which apparently I can say ten times and you wont understand that it doesn't mean town read), im happy lynching there. As bussing that much for HD wont work, yeah he is town if you are scum. Its comical (and scummy) how much you are fighting HD-town but at the same time saying "he isn't town if im scum".

Nacho was one of those "yeah yeah Bulb-Syryana" pushers. If you are town there IS scum in that group. Im probably one of the only players that has won multiple nightless games as scum and the best way to win those are to get the town playing fast and not thinking about things. The more they are just acting the more you can just keep them on the wrong path and you can quickly turn an "easy win" into a scum win. I can point you to two excellent examples of scum setting town up to just play fast and getting reamed.

Zero way Nacho, HD and DGB are all town if you are town. I refuse to believe three decent players all suddenly become incompetent town.

Really im probably done arguing with you since you are apparently just jockeying for "not me today". Which again - why you are scum. You aren't doing anything but looking in the here and now instead of trying to give more general reads on what is happening. Again, if you are town stop that.

Just if you lynch me, Syryana and Nacho die next. One for sure scum, would probably put both and neither on equal ground.

[Rainbowdash]

Nacho why the fuck did you try to build a counter wagon on RBD that still boggles me.

Sadly Klick in iso looks town. Nacho is nowhere near somepony we let through to endgame but Klicks play buys him a few days. Its one of those situations where just reading Klick its strong town, just reading Nacho it would be "lynch over MM today" scum. Combine the two and its just a midgame lynch.

Will let MM say something incase he is town but consider this intent to vote. Syryana actually flipping scum makes that slot scummy.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah DCL is town.

As ive said before - RM not reading scum is probably a decent towntell for that slot.

Vote MM

[Rainbowdash]

90% of slips aren't slips.

Also im not on board with the MO lynch.

Also im assuming getting this out there will have me lynched in a few pages but...

Vote Zdnek

Blazing my own trail again.

[Rainbowdash]

And I think DGB might be Jennifer's partner. Jennifer avoiding the MM wagon isn't that big of a deal, considering it was probably what was going through anyways.

Nopony is arguing that DGB makes it to endgame. That much is obvious.

That's AA and HD.

Kill all the rest.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote MO

Better? I think so.

Nacho bad, but read Klick. Klick reads town, that still buys Nacho a few days.

[Rainbowdash]

Keybladewielder

: I think I said this already, but really not much to go on, but what there is is pretty bad. Can't tell if just an extremely bad player or scum, would make a good policy lynch.

TheActingMethod

: I maintain what was said about them, that they don't ring particularly scummy. More content would, as always, be appreciated, or even a little relevant content if nothing else. Especially if this is a meta thing, and not a tell, I'd like to know if it changes. If so, perhaps pursue better options until that time? So, in light of Meta, I'd say Neutral, though consider for Policy Lynch if it isn't something which changes.

TheUnderachievers

: I don't think I like a single post that they've made. I dislike their positions on issues, and find them anti-town at best. It seems like the majority of their posts are worthless, or dealing with hydra, and those that aren't I dislike the content of. Really, if they're competent, I have to say they're scum, and if they aren't, well, why keep them around? I think they could redeem themselves, but it's unlikely. Plus, the whole deal I've already expressed my opinions on . . . yeah Scum.

....

VOTE: Reek

[Rainbowdash]

Guess im not able to do that "just quote the post" thing.

Basically all flipped scum are "oh yeah... they are kinda scummy" for him throughout the game, and usually he is only even voting them when its a "me or him" thing.

Really maybe it doesn't matter all that much since as I said - its just a "don't lynch AA/HD" thing - but I would rather lynch who I think is scum. Have you read Klick though? I don't think that is scum that much, even if Nacho looks really bad in isolation.

[Rainbowdash]

I dunno... really I would rather just lynch zdnek today but have more or less burned out of the game for the time being. Either need to go back to more roleplay-ish roots or move on to a new gimmick sometime soon. That and stop playing large games.

You read Klick yet and still see that slot as scum?

[Rainbowdash]

MS:

Anyone calling me scum or have me as a scum read still at this point of the game should either retire from mafia, or give themselves up as scum.


1. I am a 3rd counter wagon to the 2 scum wagons day 1(Fact)
2.Bulbazak, a town, read me as town(fact)
3.

end of day distancing at its finest

Except, HD, I don't bus. I don't know how Nero plays as scum (you'd have to ask him), but bussing NEVER works out in my favor, so I don't do it. So I'm delivering an ultimatum.

MO and TUA cannot be scum together.
Pick one, run with it. Who is the scum, who is the town.

(Right from the mouth of scum)





These 3 are enough to make me a 100% town, and should be communally viewed in all the eyes of the town. Read: I get a free pass for the whole game

Jennifer, if you still continue to vote me after these evidence, please get voted out. If you happen to be town, you really need to retire.


For reference:

"MO voted a town read therefore he must be scum!" - Jennifer (Opinion)

LOL

1) Point being? All flipped scum were NEVER early on a wagon on scum. All flipped scum were also NEVER early on a wagon on you. Scum weren't pushing wagons but reacting to them instead.
2) Yeah that's not a point. In the long run or for those NKed it may hold some ground, but not here.
3) TUA was voting KBW early for a long time (bussing). That's out the window. Its also easy to argue that the quote is just scum setting up a false dilemma. Celestia knows ive done that one quite a few times where town is doomed to fail no matter what side they approach a "solution" of mine from. Not sure TUA makes an arugement where if they get lynched town becomes hard to lynch. On the

other

hoof I have in two separate games a) hardcore attacked a predecessor of a partner (including voting the player no longer in a game) upon realizing I replaced into a slot that the cop had a guilty on (and was doing a bad job of hiding that)... and b) after replacing into a slot that had scumslipped launching into a fullon attack of a partner who was in a good position. Both of those players walked to a win after my flip. TUA being competent (if mastin was posting there) that's a full on null tell to scumtell for you.

[Rainbowdash]

@MO - So you are saying TUA, who at multiple points throughout the game called KBW scum and voted him, never bussed? Or is it something else.

I just want to make perfectly sure so I know how much I should mock you.

[Rainbowdash]

EBWOP: Since he is incapable of making such a situation as hypothesised in your #2742 due to lack of such skill, it will go to show that I am town.

In one of your quotes he also calls TL (Syryana) scum.

So....

yeah....

Also you quote him attacking me, he attacked DGB and you seem to at least somewhat support both of our lynches.

Let me guess this is a "the tell applies where it directly benefits me" scenarios?

[Rainbowdash]

Nacho is fairly obviously avoiding this thread btw

I would vote him over Jen for basically this. Its not as solid of a tell as it is for some (like Nik, who you can ignore everything he posts and almost perfectly figure what he is by activity patterns) but he gets quieter as scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Can you see my logic?

Well...



no.

Not at all.

Should I go back and again reference the games where I realized I got put into a doomed slot and my first response to realizing I was doomed was extremely hard bussing a partner so they would get written off as town for a long period of time?

Also if we are saying you are town for Syryana attacking you, how is DGB scum if Jen is scum? Remember the part where Syryana called DGB scum? Or is that just another page from the "only if convinent to me" useage of tells?

[Rainbowdash]

And, yeah. Right now, looks like a MO-DGB-Lurker-Jennifer scumteam.

We can get that MO lynch.

He picked three good town reads and Lurker.

If TUA is scum, I want to lynch Lurker next.

Actually, I'm probably wrong because of this.

Also, this is extra powerful evidence, and I think I recall that Lurker = Syryana.
However, that number may be two instead of three -- we cannot be sure about Klick's predictions, however accurate

Just to do a little more needling of MO...

You are pushing that Jen-DGB are a good two picks for end of scum, while pushing that TUA never busses, while pushing that the suggested TUA scumteam has three scum in it.

Right?

Or it doesn't apply because it doesn't benefit you?

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, you down to popcorn lynch w/me?

No.

It sounds like a plan more likely to backfire than not. Same reasons vigs are anti-town basically.

[Rainbowdash]

How will it backfire? Because people's personal reads are less accurate than the reads of the majority?

Because players start doing the "well everypony but me thinks X is town, better use my kill on them" train of thought.

[Rainbowdash]

Well this game is always good for a laugh at least.

@nacho - Yeah I realize popcorn and such given how closely im tied to all opens not to mention I was the mane one who brought that one back from 2009(?). It 'works' but its not really a fun setup to me at least, forced win is one thing, probable win is another. We probably have the same chances either way since all popcorn is is a glorified nightless.

[Rainbowdash]

Im going to be pissed if its AA due to something I said when still hydra-ing that I let go.

@AA - Why when taking a "lynch all hydras" stance early, you vote TUA? He was not first anything hydra wise. Playerlist it was Reek, posting Titan and Reek had posted, MO was called out as a hydra already and had the most votes. It feels like an odd singling out of the slot.

Going to go with...

DGB, MO, DCL town. Play it from there with Nacho still prob-town (you better be sending Klick a thank you after this game).

Im cool with the troll-ish hammer though

Vote AA

Game?

[Rainbowdash]

Okay sweet, AA is still prob-town.

Mod uses bad voting rule, im going to take advantage of the fakehammer (my vote wasn't on its own line).

Take my above list, tack AA in with Nacho. There is your list to win.

[Rainbowdash]

I dunno, AA is a bit off tilt but im not sure she is scum.

Upset, emotional scum (if she thought she was just lynched) probably reacts differently.

DCL is town
MO is town
DGB is town

Nacho is probably town
AA is probably town
HD is probably town

Vote Molla

I would guess last is in molla/zdnek/HD actually. Basically I don't believe that DGB vs TUA day two had only one scum not bussing. This is also (apart from RM actually not reading scum) why DCL is town. EVERY SINGLE SCUM would have needed to be trying to get DGB lynched there. I don't buy it when TUA would have gone next and they would get romped.

How about that? One of those three. Well start with molla/zdnek. Then work up the other list.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't buy it when TUA would have gone next and they would get romped.

Please explain, I'm slow.

Because of this

Votecount 2.17:

DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI, Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak
Antilles - Rainbowdash
Ms Marangal - Antilles
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal
Underachivers - DrippingGoofball, Human Destroyer, zdenek, BBmolla, Syryana, Metal Overlord

Not Voting - Arcangel, Klick

[/b]

Do you really think TUA got bussed by just one partner here? This VC im using as both why DCL is town (apart from the whole RM thing) and why I think one of HD/zd/Molla are scum (guess MO too, but with Jen scum im not too keen on that one now).

If you get lynched, TUA goes soon either way and the entire wagon on you will soon be dead. Heck with you NOT getting lynched the entire wagon on you is almost dead.

There is a point where I think scum would rather bus. Keep on your good side, pick up town credit and then see if they can dump you later. At that point they would have needed a whole lot more mislynches than possible, town credit and making others look bad is better.

Least that's how I would have approached the situation, not bussing there is extremely dangerous (as we have seen), im expecting that more than syryana took the conservative approach. If one didn't its AA as Nacho is town due to Klick.

[Rainbowdash]

Please feel free to lynch me, but when I flip town, take these words to heart and lynch that final scum.

Yeah DGB isn't going to be one of the last two alive. Ever. That's clearly a mistake.

Also MO is still town. Im not voting him.

[Rainbowdash]

Add in Zdnek and MOs list is it. After this lynch DGB has absolutely zero chance of not being lynched in F3 if it gets there. I want DCL to recoginize this since he is one that will be there if we see F3.

We can say DCL + Nacho as our last two now.

Vote Molla

Would also vote HD, Zdnek is last of the three as I keep thinking on it.

[Rainbowdash]

We can say DCL + Nacho as our last two now.

Where do YOU fit in?

Wherever.

If I can keep those two alive I win though so that's more of my goal here.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I want to think on order.

[Rainbowdash]

And honestly, as fucking stupid as it sounds, I think we should lynch all of the people who have good scumgames at this point and because if scum is in {Molla, DCL, Zdenek, Arc, Human} then DGB/RBD/I are playing like absolute idiots and probably deserve to be lynched anyways.

I could get behind this actually.

[Rainbowdash]

No - lynch DGB instead

Vote DGB

Nacho still is town. Really don't think he does this as scum when already Popcorn probably doomed him/Jen team.

[Rainbowdash]

no, fuck that. none of us three squirms out of a lynch.

But you are town. DGB might be scum.

Logic says lynch her first (plus she will try and get out of it with a you-town flip).

[Rainbowdash]

WHY WHY WHY Unless it's theater to appear casual about your own death as scum... there is no motive to do that as town.

...

Hey guys

Since you seem to be too wimpy to lynch anybody, just lynch me and put me out of my misery.

I'm a vanilla townie.

VOTE: DGB

Aw come on

Get your act together and lynch me. All these insinuations that I'm scum... just vote me and lynch me.

I just can't believe anyone would confuse UA's flailing for town.

UA is back on a lurking rampage because UA is scum, and your hesitation to hammer is an opening for them to quietly go away so that we spin on our heels and lynch a townie.

I'm vanilla, so since you guys are hellbent on lynching a townie and letting the scum slip away, let that townie be me.

My vote is on your scum buddy

What do you care which scum gets lynched? Pick me.

yeah I don't get it

Is this another one of those "Its town when I do it but scummy if you do it" things?

[Rainbowdash]

Lynch Nacho next, but no one listens to the dead so........ whatevs.

You mean all of the dead town we lynched who thought you were scum? Which is literally every town player we lynched?

[Rainbowdash]

Simple HD, I am not SCUM. I AM TOTALLY TOWN. you can believe me!!!!

I hate how I can call somepony town then they do something like this to make me completely second guess them.

I still think DGB is last scum here.

If she isn't scum, HD would be a most excellent pick.

Nacho needs to stop trying to be suicidal town. DGB will NOT just be "okay I will self-vote" when put to it. For countering DGB point, look at Nachos two suggestions

1) Lynch me first - in a scenario where he is already a probable lynch. Scum doesn't make that move much, especially when if he gets me mislynched or (assuming he is scum)DGB mislynched, he is dead. He basically needs to take the two of us to an endgame for that to work
2) Popcorn - When its him (common suspect - asking to go first) and Jen (common suspect) its not working again. Especially when he is playing to my knowledge of open setups, where popcorn (like Hard Boiled, NVM) is one of those setups half broken to town but are amazingly popular.

I would like to see the HD town argument. Im still unsure of that one. Lots of this game makes sense with DGB-scum though, and themislynches really back it up. Again im pulling from my past games, but the ones you want dead as scum are those that think you (or partners if you are going the protection route) are scum. Wipe them out if you can make the case and win gets easier.

[Rainbowdash]

@DGB - See that kind of this is why I think you have a decent chance of being scum here. Yeah VCA works fairly well most of the time, but when the one using it is cutting all of these corners and removing half the playerlist from being scum to start its pretty useless since it doesn't really have all the information there anymore.

Also who is really to say scum play into that. Ive made moves as scum just incase town tries to use VCA later in the game it backfires on them.

I feel like I may be going back on my AA read.

Does anypony have a list of those who "townslipped" though? Or do I have to go back and find it all.

[Rainbowdash]

Out of curiosity, how confident are we, as a whole, that we are right about who the last scum is going to be?

If its mild to high I think we can just put a plan into action and end the squabbling.

[Rainbowdash]

Nacho you're scum, thanks.

No he isn't.

See Klick twilight day one post. Where he expressed a whole lot of distaste that KBW got lynched over TUA between the lynch and the flip. That's probably a bit more forward thinking than Klick-scum would make right there. Yeah I love Klick/kondi and he is one of the most improved players ive ever seen, but im not sure he makes that snap reaction post as scum when scum just got lynched over scum.

Like ive said, im defending Nacho basically 100% off of Klick.

[Rainbowdash]

Well these are all Klick-town posts

shit

Really sorry guys, I didn't mean to wait this long to post here.

VOTE: TUA

MO is probably town based on his extremely obvious desire to not get lynched. I guess he could be trying to get one mislynch through before his death, but it's much more likely that he's town. Other than that, I support this wagon the most by far.

Constantly trying to shut down MO wagon (this continued D2)

How did TUA die so fast?

Seems like a comment that is very unsure of a flip.

booooooooo

This fell between me dragging the wagon from TUA to KBW (and mod showing KBW was lynched) and the flip from KBW.

Scum makes that post on a split second decision? Not likely. Town makes this post when their preferred lynch just got bumped at the end of the day? That one I can see.

In light of all the flips Klick reads very very strong town.

Plus since you were so interested in "fake town reads" go look at the lists Klick made. If he is scum its 100% town, and its about half the game.

[Rainbowdash]

I could kill AA at this point really.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote AA

I would vote HD over DCL.
I would vote DCL over Nacho.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote HD

Its happening by game end either way really if we don't hit scum today.

[Rainbowdash]

and to be fair, I resent multiball nightless a hell of a lot more than I resent pure nightless as scum.

Well multiball is harder to win as scum either way.

Still think im one of the few to win a pure 8:4 nightless as scum. I told yall going into this that town was probably going to crush though, imagine if I didn't pull an extra 4(?) VT out of the setup when it first was in signups. Its hard to know when to bus

Modkills were unfortunate but necessary. Pretty blatantly against site rules and it basically confirmed a town MM from where I was, no way scum in the "im selfvoting" stage is going to make that bet with scum who they obviously dislike.