NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

Zdenek · Post Post #529 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:45 am

Hello.

Zdenek · Post Post #543 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:54 am

5 pages in and emogirl and garmr both seem rather townie.

Unvote

Zdenek · Post Post #546 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:03 am

I'm about half way through now, add Slaandar and Bulbazak to the town list. Slaandar is the weakest of these reads.

Zdenek · Post Post #549 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:32 am

Bulbazak, doesn't it surprise you that I'm town reading you?

Zdenek · Post Post #560 (isolation #4) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:52 am

Chevre bothers me a bit - I can see how his vote and his progression of thoughts on emogirl bother some people. Howver, reading over his posts, he doesn't seem to have any particularly strong reads, and he has explained that emogirl confuses him. In light of this, vote and subsequent unvote of emogirl make sense. On the other hand, I rather dislike that he has not explained what sort of information he plans to get out of an emogirl lynch. I particularly would like to see what specific information he thinks we would have if she were to flip town.

Zdenek · Post Post #563 (isolation #5) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:02 am

Aegor

, what did you think were Garmr's motivations behind attacking you without having voted you?

Zdenek · Post Post #567 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:17 am

In post 564, Aegor wrote:I would be fine with a Garmr lynch, especially because he never actually concluded his case against me once he effed up the quote tags.

I found that confusing, but my impression was that he mixed up you and Acidic_TACO, and that was the source of most the issues between the two of you.

Zdenek · Post Post #575 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:16 am

Reading Slaandar over in ISO, my town read on him is cancelled.

Zdenek · Post Post #576 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:18 am

In post 573, Tebow wrote:
Vote: Chevre

Still support this wagon. Didn't want a derphammer, but I don't want it to slip away either. Don't have time to do a full response to yessiree... let's just say that 'Could equally be town or scum' describes a player who's a good day one lynch.

I'd appreciate your unvote for the time being.

Zdenek · Post Post #578 (isolation #9) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 am

Tebow

, why do you think that 504 is a town post?

Zdenek · Post Post #580 (isolation #10) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:21 am

Here is where I would like to lynch.

First of all, both Goodfather and Emeraldemon are playing like typical scum.

In Post 78 emerald starts off by playing the newb-card, and then moves on to setup-spec avoiding actual discussion of the game up to that point (it's true that the game had recently started, but there were relevant conversations from pre-game that he could have talked about). In post 247, he avoids taking strong stances on things, and buddies with OGML. Avoiding talking strong stances is typical throughout his ISO. He does it in 253 with "But that alone doesn't make her scum necessarily" and elsewhere by asking questions in place of taking stances. In post 470 he tries to spread suspicion around to several people: "I don't really see why Chevre is the scummiest vote on this wagon. Given that people have said most scummy things about the votes from albert on, maybe it's something about joining the wagon late? It does seem like maybe the unvote from Chevre is scummy, but I'd love to know why no one thinks e.g. Brian Skies was scummy. Or NS for that matter" while his vote is on Garmr.

Goodfather has a consistent habit of attacking people without voting them. In post 329 he attacks Chevre for jumping on the emogirl wagon and in post 432 he attacks Kaboom for having his vote on emogirl, all the while sticking with his random vote on Tebow. I should add that I think this is different from Garmr's attack on Aegor because of how direct Garmr's attack was, and as a result of that, I completely believe that Garmr did in fact mistake Aegor for TACO. In post 329
Goodfather's second paragraph is logical padding, no one will object to it, but is also devoid of content. The Goodfather previously expressed suspicion of Kaboom and Chevre, but in post 376 he votes Garmr for essentially nonsensical reasons - wasting people's time and ruining his image of Rick Astley. This makes no sense coming from town. He attempts to discredit yesiree based on the formatting of his post rather than on the content of the post. He also suggests that yesiree was being a tad aggressive - this is weak stance designed to cast suspicion on to yesiree.

I have some other suspicions. I'll get to writing them down in a bit. For now

Vote The Goodfather

Zdenek · Post Post #585 (isolation #11) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:48 pm

Sotty, why are you town reading ABR?

Zdenek · Post Post #611 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:58 am

In post 592, The Fonz wrote:It embodies the 'Damn the torpedoes' kind of attitude that I expect from town ABR.

I don't see him not saying that as scum, but for the time being, I don't care that much.

In post 588, Chevre wrote:Zdenek: a lynch on emogirl, on anyone really, would give town a player whose alignment is confirmed, plus whatever happens during the night. Then they can look at the relationships those players had with the living players and draw out connections. If there are dead scum you could look for buddies, obviously; if there are town it's a little more difficult as you have to A) look for people who were suspicious of them but also B) suss out who is just misguided town as opposed to opportunistic scum.

I'd be far happier if you got into specifics about the sort of conclusions you would draw if Emogirl flipped down rather then speaking in generalities.

I really wish that I felt strongly about Chèvre after his walls, but I don't. I don't like that he calls things interesting or weird, rather than scummy, and I don't find the effort townie.

In post 602, Bulbazak wrote:I later got a townread from him, so I no longer feel this is a valid point.

From what?

In post 603, Nobody Special wrote:For not reading the thread; for not contributing substantially (yeah, pot, kettle, whatever); and for having fewer posts than I do:

unvote

Vote: Acidic Taco

Has your take on Chèvre changed?

In post 604, OhGodMyLife wrote:the swarm of people already trying to lay blame for a chevre mislynch at the feet of ABR et. al. Somebody who *knows* he's town is feeding that fire.

Bulbazak and Yessiree? Any others?

Zdenek · Post Post #612 (isolation #13) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:43 pm

Also, The Goodfather is ignoring this game while posting in others, so hey ho let's go.

Zdenek · Post Post #617 (isolation #14) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:44 pm

In post 615, Bulbazak wrote:His later posts had the appearance of newbie town, rather than scum. He was eager and actually doing his best to scumhunt. I didn't think he'd be able to fake that as scum with his level of experience.

Did you look at his completed game?

Zdenek · Post Post #618 (isolation #15) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:48 pm

In post 615, Bulbazak wrote:You don't think ABR's vote on Chevre was strange, especially when he avoided giving any reason for why Chevre was scum when asked?

This was directed at OGML. I'm trying to figure who the swarms of people are that he's talking about.

Zdenek · Post Post #620 (isolation #16) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:18 pm

In post 619, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 617, Zdenek wrote: Did you look at his completed game?
No, I don't have the time to read games outside the ones I'm playing in.

Well, I did, and I think your town read on ed is on shaky ground.

Zdenek · Post Post #622 (isolation #17) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:24 pm

If you weren't voting emogirl, who would you be voting?

Zdenek · Post Post #659 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:30 pm

In post 643, Aegor wrote:
In post 635, emeraldemon wrote: Albert B. Rampage
Nobody Special
kabooooom
The Goodfather
Brian Skies
Chevre
SCUM
Do you have any specific reasons for considering these players scummy? Except for Chevre, since you already discussed that.

Why did you cut the list off at ABR?

Zdenek · Post Post #660 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:36 pm

Vote: emeraldemon

Zdenek · Post Post #663 (isolation #20) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:46 pm

Did you look at emeraldemon's completed game?

Zdenek · Post Post #664 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:51 pm

OGML, how would you describe your past experiences playing with Sotty and how she tends to relate with you?

Zdenek · Post Post #665 (isolation #22) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:18 pm

In post 579, Acidic_TACO wrote:All my reads are currently like that. To me it makes perfect sense but I doubt anyone else will get anything out of it.

Knowing what you're thinking would be helpful to me.

Zdenek · Post Post #667 (isolation #23) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:40 pm

What are your reads on emogirl and emeraldemon?

Zdenek · Post Post #669 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:51 pm

What?

In post 586, Aegor wrote:Post 580 is very good.

Half of 580 is a case on ed.

Zdenek · Post Post #670 (isolation #25) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:52 pm

Frankly it looks like 580 was just buddying with me over something that you now apparently disagree with.

Zdenek · Post Post #672 (isolation #26) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:04 pm

Why do you disagree with the ed case?

Zdenek · Post Post #673 (isolation #27) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:10 pm

Actually,

Vote: Aegor

No one reads a post, thinks that half of it is complete bs and proceeds to call it good.

Zdenek · Post Post #694 (isolation #28) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:55 am

In post 693, Slandaar wrote:Kabs is obviously scum btw, you can even look through demons meta game to see he did the exact same thing as scum as kabs did here.

What are you referring to?

Zdenek · Post Post #698 (isolation #29) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:08 am

In post 696, yessiree wrote:
In post 694, Zdenek wrote:
In post 693, Slandaar wrote:Kabs is obviously scum btw, you can even look through demons meta game to see he did the exact same thing as scum as kabs did here.
What are you referring to?
I would assume kaboooom

I'm talking about what thing ed did that's the same as what kabs is doing here.

Zdenek · Post Post #699 (isolation #30) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:35 am

Continuing to look into things, I really dislike Maestro chastising Maenara for her vote on emogirl, when he was voting emogirl himself.

Zdenek · Post Post #703 (isolation #31) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:50 am

In post 699, Zdenek wrote:Continuing to look into things, I really dislike Maestro chastising Maenara for her vote on emogirl, when he was voting emogirl himself.

Hey, Maestro also did it with Kaboom in his 361.

There's basically no way I would vote for Slaandar at this point, since he got me on to to him, and Maestro would be a great lynch.

Zdenek · Post Post #706 (isolation #32) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:01 am

Why is funny?

Zdenek · Post Post #733 (isolation #33) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:24 pm

In post 731, Sotty7 wrote:why would I look at his game?

Well, if you didn't, how do you know that he is out of his depth?

Also, Aegor is scum because of his desire for an artificial deadline that's approaching and not pushing anything hard at the moment. His desire for a lynch happening before the deadline was just him pushing what appears to be a pro-town agenda while not actually caring about it.

Zdenek · Post Post #736 (isolation #34) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:50 pm

Sotty, why are you giving emeraldemon a pass, but not Brian Skies?

Zdenek · Post Post #737 (isolation #35) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:53 pm

In post 735, Aegor wrote:
Zdenek wrote:Also, Aegor is scum because of his desire for an artificial deadline that's approaching and not pushing anything hard at the moment. His desire for a lynch happening before the deadline was just him pushing what appears to be a pro-town agenda while not actually caring about it.
What are you talking about? If someone other than Slandaar, Chevre, or Brian is lynched at deadline, what I said will have come to pass exactly as I said it would. And I would say that if that occurs, there is a 90+% chance that no actual case will have been presented against the target.

I explained my Slandaar vote. No one responded. I posted about my preference for a consensus. No one responded. It is not my job to tell other players to read my posts and respond to them. My statements stand and I have explained and justified them. Just watch how this day ends.

I'm not criticizing your skills at predicting the future.

Why do you think Brian Skies is an acceptable lynch?

Zdenek · Post Post #740 (isolation #36) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:02 pm

In post 739, Aegor wrote:
In post 737, Zdenek wrote:I'm not criticizing your skills at predicting the future.
Then there is nothing for you to criticize.

If you actually cared about getting a lynch done two days before the deadline, this is not how you would be playing.

Zdenek · Post Post #741 (isolation #37) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:10 pm

Hey Aegor.

In post 659, Zdenek wrote:
In post 643, Aegor wrote:
In post 635, emeraldemon wrote: Albert B. Rampage
Nobody Special
kabooooom
The Goodfather
Brian Skies
Chevre
SCUM
Do you have any specific reasons for considering these players scummy? Except for Chevre, since you already discussed that.
Why did you cut the list off at ABR?

In post 737, Zdenek wrote:Why do you think Brian Skies is an acceptable lynch?

Zdenek · Post Post #743 (isolation #38) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:14 pm

In post 742, Aegor wrote:I do care. You are really not in a position to posit connections between my intent and my play beyond speculation.

Considering the game we are playing that really strikes me as nonsense.

Zdenek · Post Post #746 (isolation #39) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:23 pm

In post 744, Aegor wrote:1) I cut it off at ABR because that was the bottom third of the list. Bottom 6 out of 19-1(emerald) = 18.
2) Remind me please where I stated that Brian Skies an acceptable lynch.

In a game with 3 scum asking ed have reasons for scum reads on a third of the player list seems like asking a lot.

Well, he was on your list in 735. Do you think that he is an acceptable lynch?

In post 745, Aegor wrote:
In post 743, Zdenek wrote:Considering the game we are playing that really strikes me as nonsense.
Not really. There is a different between saying "this is something scum would do" and "this is something that anyone who cared about X would not do." The burden of proof is much higher for the second.

Something scum would do is take a position that they think that town would take. Of course town does that too. What's scummy is to take a position that you think appears pro-town, but then fail to back that up with your play.

Have you tried to secure a lynch a couple of days before the deadline in the past?

Zdenek · Post Post #749 (isolation #40) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:40 pm

The thing that gives me pause about lynching Brian is where he defended Slandaar saying that one of Slandaar's posts might be a town post. I think if he's scum, he decided to vote Slaandar in advance of making his most recent catchup posts, mostly because of where he calls Slandaar pure evil for admitting to lurking, but if that's the case, I think he'd have omitted the comment about one of Slaandar's posts being townie to avoid questions about it.

Zdenek · Post Post #750 (isolation #41) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:44 pm

In post 748, Aegor wrote:Is this an accusation or just a useless statement? If someone manages to rank 19 players; asking why the scummy ones are scummy is hardly unreasonable.

I think you were trying to put ed in a difficult position by asking him to explain scum reads on a fairly large number of players, six, in a game with three scum, when he didn't even say that he found all those players scummy.

In post 748, Aegor wrote:You are asserting a hypocrisy that simply does not exist.

No, I am not, but I do think that scummy hypocrisy exists.

In post 748, Aegor wrote:Yes.

Can you link an example?

Zdenek · Post Post #753 (isolation #42) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 pm

In post 751, yessiree wrote:
In post 749, Zdenek wrote:The thing that gives me pause about lynching Brian is where he defended Slandaar saying that one of Slandaar's posts might be a town post. I think if he's scum, he decided to vote Slaandar in advance of making his most recent catchup posts, mostly because of where he calls Slandaar pure evil for admitting to lurking, but if that's the case, I think he'd have omitted the comment about one of Slaandar's posts being townie to avoid questions about it.
are you really saying that one little remark he made in one of those catchup quote strips is enough to halt you from scumreading him?

It's enough for me to know that I need to look into him more.

Zdenek · Post Post #754 (isolation #43) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:56 pm

In post 752, Aegor wrote:And I think with increasing confidence that you are attempting to secure a mislynch.

Unless you think that the scum team is Chevre, Brian Skies and Slaandar, that's hilarious.

Zdenek · Post Post #835 (isolation #44) » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:33 am

HEY-O

Vote: emeraldemon

Zdenek · Post Post #842 (isolation #45) » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:44 am

In post 755, Garmr wrote:zdenek are you town reading brian skies?

Nope.

Zdenek · Post Post #846 (isolation #46) » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:03 am

In post 844, Garmr wrote:Want to hop on the brian wagon with me

No, and especially not with the sweet sweet emeraldemon wagon growing.

Zdenek · Post Post #850 (isolation #47) » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:33 am

Unvote

I was wrong.

Vote: Slandaar

This fight with ABR followed by them both voting the same person is a pretty wicked relational tell, so probably they are both flipping scum.

Zdenek · Post Post #959 (isolation #48) » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:11 am

Vote: ABR

Zdenek · Post Post #965 (isolation #49) » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:40 am

Read the deadmen's ISOs.

Zdenek · Post Post #972 (isolation #50) » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:20 am

There is still Chevre. Lyching him could be a good idea. That I didn't unvote until I had a defensible excuse post is still rope worthy.

Zdenek · Post Post #1009 (isolation #51) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:10 pm

In post 974, Thor665 wrote:
In post 972, Zdenek wrote:There is still Chevre. Lyching him could be a good idea. That I didn't unvote until I had a defensible excuse post is still rope worthy.
Are you not happy with your ABR vote?

I'm happy with it.

Zdenek · Post Post #1010 (isolation #52) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:14 pm

In post 983, Zekrom25 wrote:
In post 929, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Unvote, vote Slandaar
regardless you still voted against town

Vote: ABR

You think he's scum because he voted for town?

Zdenek · Post Post #1012 (isolation #53) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:24 pm

Sotty is probably scum. Her attack on me for a bad voting record is bs since we've had only one flip.
Also, Slaandar's reasons for thinking that ABR was scum don't seem like bs to me, so I still think he's a good lynch.

Zdenek · Post Post #1013 (isolation #54) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:27 pm

On that note, Sotty was a fan of my The Goodfather vote and voted Slaandar, so that criticism of hers seems fabricated.

Zdenek · Post Post #1015 (isolation #55) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:10 pm

ABR is scum because before his vote on Slaandar, the reasons people gave to vote for Slaander were that he'd been doing very little or dismissing criticism, which were accurate, but not strong reasons for a lynch. ABR padded his vote on Slaandar with things that were false. I think he was scum that saw blood in the water, but knew that reasons that had been given so far weren't strong enough, and tried to justify his vote with bs.

Zdenek · Post Post #1017 (isolation #56) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:16 pm

In post 1016, Thor665 wrote:Sadly, it is well within ABR's meta to...well, flat out lie to make a case when he is town.

You don't think that NS's play is within his meta?

Zdenek · Post Post #1019 (isolation #57) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:21 pm

You are also defending ABR.

Zdenek · Post Post #1021 (isolation #58) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:26 pm

In post 1020, Thor665 wrote:I am, I didn't think I was being subtle about that.

I'm just curious why you would defend ABR using the argument that he's playing within his meta, but do the same for NS.

Zdenek · Post Post #1022 (isolation #59) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:27 pm

sorry, that should be "but not do the same for NS."

Zdenek · Post Post #1028 (isolation #60) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:16 pm

In post 1026, Nobody Special wrote:I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what's happening. I'm interested in how Thor is thinking.

Zdenek · Post Post #1036 (isolation #61) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:12 am

In post 1032, Sotty7 wrote:You also have votes on Aegor, emeraldemon and ABR that are all pretty terrible. Why are you pushing on ABR today and not emeraldemon? What do you think of Fonz #985?

So, what's your read on Aegor, you haven't given one yet, and what is your current read on ABR?

I'm voting on ABR today for the reason that I gave recently and because I felt like pushing a wagon to see what would come of it.

Fonz's 985 is fine, but less relevant to what I'm thinking about than Thor's 1016.

In post 1032, Sotty7 wrote:Defend with a deflection back. Have you played with ABR before? Your probe on Thor can be flipped and applied to you.

I wasn't being attacked, so I wasn't defending, and that accusation is bullshit.
I'm okay with my probe on Thor being able to be turned around, I'm not sure why you think that is relevant at all.

In post 1034, Thor665 wrote:Conversely, why are you so worried about the NS wagon, but are totally fine with the ABR one?

I'm not worried about that NS wagon, I'm worried about you.

Zdenek · Post Post #1037 (isolation #62) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:16 am

In post 1034, Thor665 wrote:Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.

What?

In post 1003, The Fonz wrote:Albert was on every major wagon except Brian's. He jumped the first two, but started the Slandaar and Emerald wagons and is now imho being scapegoated for them.

or are you reading something else?

Zdenek · Post Post #1041 (isolation #63) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:07 am

In post 1039, Thor665 wrote:Why are you skimming the game?

I ISO'd The Fonz. I seriously have no idea what post you are referring to.

Zdenek · Post Post #1042 (isolation #64) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:10 am

I see, it's about Aegor. Well he can tell me what post he is referring to as well.

Zdenek · Post Post #1043 (isolation #65) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:12 am

Actually, since I know that there isn't one, he doesn't have to bother.

Zdenek · Post Post #1047 (isolation #66) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:15 am

In post 1044, Thor665 wrote:How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.

Already done.
I'm not skimming, but I asked you about the post, since you asked Aegor about voting ABR.

Zdenek · Post Post #1050 (isolation #67) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:28 am

In post 1049, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1047, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1044, Thor665 wrote:How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.
Already done.
I'm not skimming, but I asked you about the post, since you asked Aegor about voting ABR.
I don't think your question to me suggests you read my post that you're complaining about.
It suggests you skimmed it. If you read it fully - why did you ask me what you asked me?

I read it twice. After making 1036, I read up again and saw the comment about Fonz's wall, and asked about it.

Zdenek · Post Post #1056 (isolation #68) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:37 pm

LOL, ABR.

Zdenek · Post Post #1058 (isolation #69) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:06 pm

In post 1057, Albert B. Rampage wrote:"you voted with a majority of the town for someone who flipped town, so you're scum"

^^

That is not what I said. Eat rope.

Zdenek · Post Post #1060 (isolation #70) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:06 pm

I will not be moving my vote.

Zdenek · Post Post #1064 (isolation #71) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:29 pm

In post 1062, Thor665 wrote:If you read it twice, why in the world are you asking me about it as though it's something *I* believe?

I don't remember every sentence as I read through the game. The first time I read it, I read your post through from beginning to end and it didn't stand out to me. The second time, I scrolled up and saw the comment out of context and it did.

Zdenek · Post Post #1067 (isolation #72) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:40 pm

In post 1065, Thor665 wrote:...wait, what?

I don't see what you find confusing.

Zdenek · Post Post #1091 (isolation #73) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:24 am

The vote on Sotty is pretty awesome.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:17 am

In post 408, Bulbazak wrote:although I'm starting to become more unsure of my Sotty read

Could you explain this please?

Zdenek · Post Post #1119 (isolation #75) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:34 pm

Bulbazak, why did you ignore this?

In post 985, The Fonz wrote:Chevre becomes moderately more town simply because I'm still alive.

Zdenek · Post Post #1133 (isolation #76) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:13 am

I have a hard time seeing scum Aegor defending Brian Skyes the way he did at the end of day one.

Zdenek · Post Post #1135 (isolation #77) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:49 am

In post 1134, emeraldemon wrote:
In post 1133, Zdenek wrote:I have a hard time seeing scum Aegor defending Brian Skyes the way he did at the end of day one.
I was asking about Chevre?

I've been rereading, and that was an obsevation.

Zdenek · Post Post #1136 (isolation #78) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:00 am

In post 1080, Albert B. Rampage wrote:What's the difference between Zdenek and Zekrom25?

What is the point of this post?

Zdenek · Post Post #1138 (isolation #79) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:14 am

In post 1093, emeraldemon wrote:Zdenek, what did you think of 1023 / 1024?

1023 is okay, but I'm not quite sure why Chevre thinks that Sotty's vote is the most suspicious. I think that ABR's reasons are the worst.
1024 seems like it's mostly a waste of time but that could just be me. I don't even know what Chevre thinks of my points on Sotty after reading it, since there's a word missing.

Zdenek · Post Post #1139 (isolation #80) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:15 am

In post 1137, Albert B. Rampage wrote:What's the point of your play here?

This game feels very disjointed and I'm not managing to connect with anyone or their reads, so I'm rereading to find out why and what I am missing.

Zdenek · Post Post #1140 (isolation #81) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:17 am

Now answer my question and explain 1055-1057.

Zdenek · Post Post #1141 (isolation #82) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:31 am

In post 1109, Sotty7 wrote:something I would expect of town ABR.

You wouldn't expect it of scum ABR?

In post 1109, Sotty7 wrote:Talk to me about emeraldemon then?

No. He is no longer one of my top scum reads. This is mostly because after rereading there are enough people that I find scummier that he moves to the back burner.
I'll talk about those in a moment.

In post 1123, Bulbazak wrote:Was there a reason you expected me to comment on it?

Yes, and it should only take you a moment to figure it out.

Zdenek · Post Post #1143 (isolation #83) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:01 am

Let's see.

Emogirl and garmr are my strongest town reads, weaker town reads are OGML, Bulbazak, Matias and Aegor.

I feel like with the content that they posted that I should have better reads on Sotty and Fonz. I really hate Sotty's attack on me for asking people questions and I have hard time believing that the Fonz actually thinks that wanting an information lynch is scummy. He's also ignored a couple of things that feel weird, but that could just be him being frustrated. I think neither of them is a good lynch today.

I'm null on emeraldemon, Thor, Chèvre. Kaboom and NS.

I think that inhim, Zekrom, ABR are scum. The Goodfather was scummy and inhim's attack on Aegor for voting Zekrom is off, since Zekrom was one of his scum reads. I think that Zekrom is scum, mostly because of Maestro, but Zekrom questioning the ABR case and then voting ABR for voting against town is terrible. ABR is scum for pushing BS against Slaandar and now against me.

Zdenek · Post Post #1147 (isolation #84) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:01 am

ABR stop ignoring my questions.

In post 1123, Bulbazak wrote:I think it's incredibly lazy play to base an entire read off of a dead man's read list, especially when that player went against his win condition in the manner that he did, and especially since he was the one stretching to make his points for most of his arguments, which was what got him lynched in the first place

That's not what I'm doing. I do think that Slaandar made some good points, but I've said other things.

What do you think of ABR's cases?

In post 1145, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1123, Bulbazak wrote:off of a dead man's read list, especially when that player went against his win condition in the manner that he did, and especially since he was the one stretching to make his points for most of his arguments, which was what got him lynched in the first place.
I'm balancing back and forth the idea of him being a VI or scum.

In post 530, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Cool, Zdenek is in the game!

LOL.

ABR is such obv. scum.

Zdenek · Post Post #1149 (isolation #85) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:11 am

In post 1055, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm not entirely sure which direction to go in right now. Zdenek isn't even making any sense.

In post 1057, Albert B. Rampage wrote:"you voted with a majority of the town for someone who flipped town, so you're scum"

^^

What post of mine do you think he is referring to?

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:32 am

Fuck this nonsense. ABR hasn't given reads on Maestro, The Goodfather or inhim, and is voting me because of a post that my scum read, Zekrom wrote.

me v ABR

now please.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:50 am

If you want to give yourself three days to read the thread vote for ABR, if you want to give yourself 6 days to read thread vote for me today and ABR tomorrow.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:01 am

There's a vote missing from that post.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:02 pm

First of all, more votes please.

Second, Bulb, what do you think of ABR's vote on me now.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:03 pm

and why are you even insinuating that my logic is scummy?

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:19 pm

In post 1166, Bulbazak wrote:why his particular brand of bad logic is scummy, and Zdenek's is not.

What do you think is wrong with this:

In post 1015, Zdenek wrote:ABR is scum because before his vote on Slaandar, the reasons people gave to vote for Slaander were that he'd been doing very little or dismissing criticism, which were accurate, but not strong reasons for a lynch. ABR padded his vote on Slaandar with things that were false. I think he was scum that saw blood in the water, but knew that reasons that had been given so far weren't strong enough, and tried to justify his vote with bs.

couple that with the fact that his vote on me is for bs reasons, and the fact that his vote on Slaandar was for bs reasons.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:24 pm

In post 1171, Bulbazak wrote:I thought that ABR came out stronger than Slandaar in their back and forth. And like I've said, ABR is essentially having a knee jerk reaction towards you. It's an OMGUS case. Of course it probably has BS reasons.

What argument of ABR's against Slaandar do you think is convincing?

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:24 pm

In post 1171, Bulbazak wrote:ABR is essentially having a knee jerk reaction towards you. It's an OMGUS case. Of course it probably has BS reasons.

Good, so you don't think that he's trying to get scum lynched.

You should probably be voting him about now.

Zdenek · Post Post #1179 (isolation #94) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:33 pm

In post 1178, Bulbazak wrote:I said that he came out stronger than Slandaar.

What the fuck does this even mean?

Run me through your case on Emogirl again.

Zdenek · Post Post #1180 (isolation #95) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:34 pm

I mean if it doesn't have something to do with the strength of their arguments than it just looks like your full of shit.

Zdenek · Post Post #1181 (isolation #96) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:35 pm

and also what it has to do with alignment because right now, I don't understand at all what you are getting at.

Zdenek · Post Post #1183 (isolation #97) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:42 pm

If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.

Zdenek · Post Post #1185 (isolation #98) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:51 pm

In post 1184, Bulbazak wrote:Why did you want me to state this again?

I'm trying figure out what you think is a reasonable case.

Zdenek · Post Post #1186 (isolation #99) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:57 pm

In post 1171, Bulbazak wrote:I thought that ABR came out stronger than Slandaar in their back and forth.

Why did you defend ABR with that? It doesn't make sense to me, if you don't think that bad cases are indicative of scum.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Well, okay, but you should know that your case on Emogirl is more of a case for her being town than one for her being scum.

I'm now going to do my damnedest to ignore you because this is too frustrating and I think you're town.

Zdenek · Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:47 am

In post 1189, Zekrom25 wrote:
In post 1183, Zdenek wrote:If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.
do you have any reads on ABR, Brian & Slandaar ?

Scum, Null, Dead.

Nice to see that you aren't even trying to sort people.

In post 1190, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1188, Zdenek wrote:Well, okay, but you should know that your case on Emogirl is more of a case for her being town than one for her being scum.
Why's that?

Well, the way I see it is that Emo thought that Garmr was town, and that the reasons for your vote were bullshit. Even if you don't think that making bad cases is scummy, on page 6 of a large game, this is a pretty fair reason to vote for someone. It is true that she was defending Garmr, but I don't think that it all that likely to come from a scum buddy that early in the game. To me her thought process is rather transparent - she thought that Garmr was town, she saw that he'd be easy to attack, she attacked the person who attacked him. I agree that is weird that she talks about trying to town-tell, but I have a hard time seeing it as scummy. Especially in combination with her desire to maintain a wagon on herself. It really sounds like she was genuinely trying to accomplish something.

In post 1201, Albert B. Rampage wrote:it seems like a red herring to encourage town to vote for me.

I don't buy this at all.

In post 1218, Zekrom25 wrote:Garmr

In post 1220, Tony PF wrote:Aegor

Could you two write a couple of sentences explaining these ones?

My three preferred lynched are still Zekrom, Inhim and ABR.

Zdenek · Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:05 am

Copy and paste

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: ABR[/b]

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:29 am

Hey Fonz, which questions didn't I follow up on? Because it looks like you're just copying something Sotty said here? But upping the ante.

The case on ABR isn't that he hard pressed for the lynch of a player who turned out to be town, it's that he did it with bullshit that he piled on after Slaandar started getting attention, and that his arguments today are bullshit too.

I'll talk about emeraldemon when I get to my computer.

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:41 am

If you think that I've been asking questions in lieu of taking stances I don't think that you've been reading the thread.

First of all, I've played with Bulbazak as town before and it actually surprised me that he didn't think that it was strange that he didn't commen about me town reading him. I'd just started off in the game and was trying to start interacting with people.

In post 1233, The Fonz wrote:Aegor posts after this to say he's 'Fine with' his Garmr vote, but doesn't answer the question. Zdenek seems to not deem this worthy of comment.

That's not all Aegor said. He also said:

In post 565, Aegor wrote:In direct response to your question, my vote was low-hanging fruit for a mislynch at that point in the game.

which I assumed was slightly misworded, but didn't have a problem with it.

Sotty responded to my question to her saying,

In post 614, Sotty7 wrote:I'm not anymore actually.

I think that the fact that I asked Sotty about something where her own opinion on it had changed basically implies on its own that the question was reasonable.

In post 1233, The Fonz wrote:Asks me for why I think 504 is a town post. In fairness responds to my answer, but his response is basically 'I disagree but whatevs.'

Well, I think that your meta read on ABR is naive or contrived.

In post 1233, The Fonz wrote:#611 asks NS if his view on Chevre has changed. No reply. Zdenek lets it drop.

Well NS only posted prod-dodges for 13 pages and 5 days and when he came back we were a day from the deadline so you are ridiculous if you want to paint this as scummy.

In post 1233, The Fonz wrote:#659 "Why did you cut the list off at ABR?"

I think this was a strange choice and I still think that it was in a game with only three scum.

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:41 am

Your line of inquiry here is insane.

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:43 am

In post 1234, emeraldemon wrote:What do you think about what inHimshallibe said in 979, that scum ABR wouldn't push hard on a town wagon day 1 because it burns towncred?

I disagree with his analysis - there are few things that scum won't do. The issue is with how he did it.

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:36 pm

In post 1239, The Fonz wrote:I didn't say you never took a position. I said your questioning felt weird and a little directionless. It feels like you're asking a lot of these questions for the sake of it, rather than to drive your analysis - the two things often seem disconnected. And you notably didn't do this in the last large normal you played. These things are enough to create a feeling of unease about you.

I ask questions to try to figure out where people are coming from and to interact with them, and I'm pretty sure that you're wrong about me doing it the last large normal I was in. I just ISO'd myself in the last large normal I was in, searched for "?" and it's pretty clear to me that I did do it.

In post 1239, The Fonz wrote:When I've asked a question of a player, it's because I really want to know something. If they then prod-dodged for thirteen pages and five days, I sure as shit wouldn't just let that go.

Well, laa dee daa, you are so self-righteous.

In post 1239, The Fonz wrote:And I love how quickly you allege 'trying to paint you as scummy' when all I've said is there's things about you that make me uncomfortable.

If you don't think that it's scummy why are you so focussed on it? If you actually don't think that it's scummy, then it's hilarious that you're "uncomfortable" about me for asking questions because you think that they aren't informing my reads. The way I see it, is that you are making a soft-attack on me in such a way that you can back down from it.

In post 1239, The Fonz wrote:It seems to me like your reads (or 'reads') probably wouldn't be any different if you'd only asked one or two questions.

Before I ask a question, I don't know how the person is going to respond. The answers certainly could inform my reads, and asking people to take stances is usually worthwhile.

In post 1240, Tony PF wrote:Hmm...
New top 3 scum list:
Zdenek
NS
ABR

For reasons provided earlier in the thread, special thanks to The Fonz.

Then you should vote me or ABR because fuck this noise.

In post 1246, Tony PF wrote:I like your reasoning on Zdenek and NS, but I think ABR is scum with them for the reasons I said.

He said that I make him "uncomfortable," but that just makes Fonz comment that he's not trying to paint me as scummy all the more foolish.

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:47 pm

In post 1249, Tony PF wrote:I am currently voting ABR.

Do you think I am bussing ABR?

Zdenek · Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:05 pm

See what you've done Fonz?

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:56 am

Fonz is probably scum - his town read on inhim is rather contrived in light of his scum read on me.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:56 am

or uncomfortable read or whatever bullshit word he wants to use to describe it.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:13 am

We're not lynching you.
Probably Zekrom will get lynched, and that's fine.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:15 pm

Maestro twice attacked people voting the wagon he was on.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:21 pm

Town want to lynch the person they are voting and should be happy when people get on the wagon with them.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:40 pm

I would agree with your first point if Maestro seemed like he thought Maenara and Kaboom were scum, but with Maenara he just pointed out the the didn't like her vote, and well he voted Kaboom, but unvoted 20 posts later without saying much of anything. It really looks to me like he was tossing accusations around.

I disagree with your second point, and think that the behavior is null.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:00 pm

Thor, do you actually think that people being happy when the wagon they are on gets more votes are scummy?

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:05 pm

At least we know that Thor is town.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Of course not.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:15 pm

At this point, there's also a pretty good chance that Zekrom is town too.

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:46 am

I think that if he was scum with people wanting to lynch him just for being in the game he would have either responded with a post that would helped him with not getting lynched or that he'd have replaced out.

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:01 am

it's pretty obvious isn't it?
or is this just your way of expressing disagreement?

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:06 am

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:13 am

No, I would expect Zek to have made a post to make his lynch less likely, not for someone to have done it for him.

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:21 am

I'm thinking of the scum survival instinct more than him giving any damn at all.

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:18 pm

I think inhim is scum. That's primarily because of The Goodfather, but inhim has done nothing to change my take on that slot.

Thor, a search of NS's ISO for Aegor yields nothing from the past, and I don't recall him saying anything of consequence about that slot before.

I don't think that Aegor is scum, his self-vote is oddly consistent with is stance that he took yesterday about not wanting last minute wagon. He really just looks like he's frustrated with people's reads on him. That said I'm a bit worried that he taking advantage of how I decided to read Zekrom earlier, but not so worried about it that I'd think that he's a good lynch.

Anyway, let's get this show on the road.

Vote: inhim

Zdenek · Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 pm

Vote inhim for me then.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:47 am

I'm worried about Fonz and Sotty because they are both capable players who have decided to be rather pathetic in this game.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:15 pm

Could I persuade you to not vote Thor? His asking Zekrom to be WOTCanned out was pretty townie - I mean it's an original thought that shows that he was trying to read Zekrom and something that's generally helpful to the town.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:53 pm

In post 1407, emeraldemon wrote:He's probably my #1 townread right now.

Why?

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:21 pm

ed, I agree that 855 is townish.

Garmr, Bulb's stubbornness about practically everything really reminds me of past games with him when he's always. So far, I've been content with that. I'll have to go and look look at his scum game to see if and how he fakes it in them.I'll get back to you.

and
YAY! Nero Cain!

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:31 pm

I don't really care about us getting along. I care that you'll post and share thoughts.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:16 pm

Check out this post by town-bulbazak, and the ensuing argument.

In post 363, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 361, waynegg wrote:Look!

Really? Then what was this about, paying attention to
YOUR
bolded.

In post 345, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 342, waynegg wrote: Calling someone scum =/=
searching for evidence to find someone scummy
.

In post 343, waynegg wrote:Look!

At that misrep too!

In post 335, waynegg wrote:
Searching for reasons to find someone scummy
is kinda the point of the game as town, yes?

THIS happened before the misread. I thought that you said that reasons were not the same as evidence in response to this. My point is that you were
searching
for reasons to call a person scum, rather than try to figure out who scum are. Those are 2 completely different processes. You responded by saying that "calling someone scum =/= searching for evidence to find someone scummy.", which had nothing to do with my point, and I showed that what you called a "misrep"
you had actually said
. That's why I thought you said "reasons is not the same as evidence", because that would be the only argument you could say to refute me. My point stands. You were searching for reasons to call someone scum, rather than actually trying to find scum via scumhunting. That is scum motivation. Plain and simple.

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Could you link a couple of games?

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:22 pm

Is there a scum game?

Zdenek · Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:56 pm

Here are Brian Skyes scum games:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32528
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=31155

My read of his play is that he stingy with town reads (only rarely giving them out, outside of reads lists) when he's scum and he's not when he's town - when he gives them out as he reads through the thread. He wasn't stingy with them in this game.

At least in his recent games its a pretty distinguishing feature of his town play.

My bet is that he's town.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:29 pm

It's on!

Vote: ABR

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:52 am

Well, I think that the kill means that Sotty is town, so that's something.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:59 am

Don't be stupid.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:08 am

If you haven't figured out that I am town yet, I weep for you.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:32 am

In post 1538, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1531, Zdenek wrote:Well, I think that the kill means that Sotty is town, so that's something.
How's that?

Scum Sotty probably leaves town Fonz alive to split the paranoia over not being NK'd as the game goes on.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:38 am

Vote: ABR

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:01 pm

In post 1545, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1541, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1538, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1531, Zdenek wrote:Well, I think that the kill means that Sotty is town, so that's something.
How's that?
Scum Sotty probably leaves town Fonz alive to split the paranoia over not being NK'd as the game goes on.
WIFOM.

LOL at you not discouraging Matias.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:07 pm

I'm talking about this.

In post 1532, Matias wrote:Current thoughts from my limited knowledge of this game is that Fonz was a threat kill.

This places Zdenek high up on my suspect list, and I will read over his posts.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:08 pm

Frankly, my reasoning is awesome Matias' isn't.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:12 pm

In post 1544, Bulbazak wrote:Do you have much experience with Sotty as scum?

No.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:17 pm

In post 1554, Thor665 wrote:I feel people aren't talking with each other, they're talking at each other.

ABR is playing akin to his soft and namby scum game as opposed to his vitriolically anti-town town game.

@Zdenek
@Matias
@Nero
@Emeralddaemon

Please discuss my above bolded comment with me.

Hi Thor, I can accept that, but I don't have a strong knowledge of ABR's meta. However, I think that he's scummy from his actions in this game alone, would like him lynches and don't really have the motivation to go look at a meta that also points to him being scum.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:49 pm

In post 1563, Bulbazak wrote:Then why do you feel your NK theory holds merit?

I said something about this already. Unless you're planning to try to lynch Sotty I see no need to keep arguing about this.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:58 pm

In post 1567, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1565, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1563, Bulbazak wrote:Then why do you feel your NK theory holds merit?
I said something about this already. Unless you're planning to try to lynch Sotty I see no need to keep arguing about this.
But your theory revolves around what Sotty-scum would do, knowledge of which you don't have. I just don't see how you could really push the Fonz NK as clearing Sotty if you don't have decent Sotty-scum meta.

I don't think this is meta dependent.

Zdenek · Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:15 pm

Oh dear lord. Just keep your vote where it is. Well, there or on inhim. He'd be good too.

Zdenek · Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:17 am

All I remember was ABR explaining that he's lazy and should replace out, and Bulba acting as though non-meta dependent arguments don't exist.

Zdenek · Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:53 am

Rainbowdash, do you not have scum reads?

Zdenek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:20 am

In post 1617, inHimshallibe wrote:
vote: Albert B Rampage

Thor665 wrote:I also have to admit I feel like the pony is misrepresenting their read since they're acting like Albert is still in the game.
This referencing the "culling the useless/lurker pool" bit?

Inhim goes from defending ABR to attacking him upon ABR saying that he'll replace out. inhim is scum with ABR knowing that after ABR is replaced, he'll get to put his vote anywhere while pretending to be happy with the replacement. We should lynch one of them.

In post 1625, Rainbowdash wrote:Aegor, inhim, matais are all good scum picks.

but not ABR?

kaboom lynch is acceptable - primarily because of the awkward L-1 vote on emog.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:23 pm

Acceptable does not mean that I think he will flip scum.

RBD, you calling him a policy lynch majesty me think that you don't think he will flip scum either.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:24 pm

Majesty should be makes. Damned autocorrect.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:30 pm

On the other hand, I think the ABR slot will flip scum.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:16 am

I think that Kaboom has a higher than random chance of flipping scum, but not by a wide margin.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:28 am

Oh, I forgot to mention it before. Shroomish towntold big in that post. Scum will have to NK him.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:12 am

In post 1655, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1653, Zdenek wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention it before. Shroomish towntold big in that post. Scum will have to NK him.
I didn't see a towntell. I saw a contradictory stance and opportunistic behavior.

Getting the number of scum oh so very wrong.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:16 am

It's a bad stance for Aegor to take, but I'm thinking that it's genuine and that there's no reason for him to take it as scum.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:26 am

Yet you were defending The Fonz yesterday - calling him your strongest town read, while he was pushing the lurker NS lynch.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:11 am

Because scum know the number of scum. I think if you were faking it, you would have gone with a smaller number than 6.
Because you will never be lynched.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:12 am

I really find how angry that made you upsetting.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:56 am

I think this is a stupid discussion. If you think I am scum ruling out your lynch, you can vote me.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:05 am

In post 1654, inHimshallibe wrote:
In post 1636, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1617, inHimshallibe wrote:
vote: Albert B Rampage

Thor665 wrote:I also have to admit I feel like the pony is misrepresenting their read since they're acting like Albert is still in the game.
This referencing the "culling the useless/lurker pool" bit?
Inhim goes from defending ABR to attacking him upon ABR saying that he'll replace out.
inhim is scum with ABR knowing that after ABR is replaced, he'll get to put his vote anywhere while pretending to be happy with the replacement.
We should lynch one of them.

In post 1625, Rainbowdash wrote:Aegor, inhim, matais are all good scum picks.
but not ABR?

kaboom lynch is acceptable - primarily because of the awkward L-1 vote on emog.
I intend to continue voting ABR's replacement... ABR Day 1 is what I defended, I didn't ask for his Days 2 & 3.

Don't really have much of an opinion on kabooooom tbh.

Zd - inhim is scum with ABR and will move his vote saying that he is happy with the replacement.
inhim - no I won't
Zd - what you aren't going to try to read the slot based on the new person?

Unvote
Vote: inhim

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:19 am

We *know* that there are 3 scum from the Role PMs in the first post.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:21 am

In post 1671, inHimshallibe wrote:
what you aren't going to try to read the slot based on the new person?
Probably not.

Thor's given credible meta to continue pressuring the replacement. You read nothing into ABR's change of play?

I think ABR is scum. Do I think he could have been scum deciding to lurk - of course.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:43 am

A townie response could have been anything along the lines of: I am going to evaluate the slot using whatever information I have, and if I decide that someone else is a better lynch, of course I'll move my vote.

Zdenek · Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:57 am

You're point about me is silly. I'm not "shadowing confirmed town." I am arguing that HighShroomish is probably town for getting the setup wrong. This has no bearing on my own alignment. If that's what you mean by shadowing confirmed town, then I'd love for you to tell me what my scum motivation is.

I'll let Bulba respond to your point on him.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:56 am

Unvote
Vote: ABR

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:38 am

Mod: could you pause the deadline countdown until the player slots are filled.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:14 am

In post 1687, KoreanBBQ wrote:
In post 1677, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1673, Zdenek wrote:We *know* that there are 3 scum from the Role PMs in the first post.
Oh. I was using the standard 1:3 ratio.
I do not like ZD's post here like at all 'cause this is the EXACT same silliness we had from Slan on d1. Could ZD be scum shadowing confirmed town? Maybe.

Its Bulb's post that makes me want Bulb blood. Here he says that he was following the 1:3 ratio and yet...

In post 1505, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 171, Bulbazak wrote:. I, for example, thought mountainous games were games where
town outnumbered scum by a larger amount than the typical 1:3 ratio
.
^^^^^^
this has me worrying about Bulb 'cause I think its fairly common knowledge that mountainous=no power but for someone that HAS played in a mountainous game this seems fairly obtuse.
yet he did not think that earlier.

vote:Bulb

Here's what I was going to say. You corrected him to point out that mountainous = no power, but really it's both no power AND town outnumber the scum by a wide margin.

Of course this could be scum-Bulba trying to fake a town-tell, but I'm not sure that I care about that now.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:16 am

In post 1694, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 1693, Aegor wrote:
In post 1692, Rainbowdash wrote:Yeah there are a couple of things very wrong with that statement.

Earlier you said you wanted ABR because that's where momentum was. Now its your vote that is putting him as the lead vote getter instead of kab. So why ABR over kab?
Because there is irrational resistance to his lynch without a strong defense.
You mean the entire game saying that at worst he is a good compromise lynch?

Not me.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:20 am

In post 1719, Bulbazak wrote:The d2 ABR speed wagon:
Emogirl123
Nero Cain,
Thor665
,
Nobody Special
,
Zdenek
, Matias,
Aegor
,
Zekrom25
Rainbowdash
The current ABR wagon:
Thor665
, Sotty7, Inhimshallibe,
Aegor
, HighShroomish,
Zdenek

Those who joined the wagon AFTER ABR asked for replacement: Inhimshallibe,
Aegor
, HighShroomish,
Zdenek

*Players who are no longer in the game have been struck out. If they have been replaced, the current occupier of the slot has been listed beside them.
*Those who were on both the speedwagon and d2 wagon have been italicized.
*Those who are on all 3 lists have been bolded.
*It should be noted that Aegor and Zdenek were both on the ABR wagon before he requested replacement. However, where Aegor left the wagon immediately, and then rejoined when it started gaining momentum again, Zdenek left to pursue another option and then returned to it. Out of the 2, Zdenek's vote shows more conviction.

Unvote

Vote Aegor

How is the conviction that I am showing behind my vote boundary between scummy and not scummy?

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:22 am

In post 1730, Bulbazak wrote:HighShroomish's case just feels so slimy to me.

I think he's trying.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:31 am

The thing about Aegor is that whatever case people have raised against him based on what he's been doing fits well with the opinions that he's been expressing. While I don't doubt that he could fake it as scum, it makes all of it quite null.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:44 am

In post 1744, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1741, Zdenek wrote: How is the conviction that I am showing behind my vote boundary between scummy and not scummy?
I was looking at those who had unvoted ABR and then revoted after he had asked for replacement. With you, you had a case on the slot, which made your moving back make sense. However, Aegor jumped ship and only came back on when the wagon started gaining momentum again. That's a lot scummier.

Why do you think it's scummy?

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:51 am

That only makes sense if ABR is town.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:52 am

In post 1752, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1747, Zdenek wrote:That only makes sense if ABR is town.
I'm actually starting to lean that way, because I haven't liked any of the wagon build up from the past 2 days.

What are you talking about?

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:18 am

Well then vote Kaboom because we aren't lynching Aegor.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:19 am

Frankly I don't know where this speed of wagon argument comes from. I mean I see it around, but I don't think there is any evidence that it's correct.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:28 am

In post 1743, Zdenek wrote:The thing about Aegor is that whatever case people have raised against him based on what he's been doing fits well with the opinions that he's been expressing. While I don't doubt that he could fake it as scum, it makes all of it quite null.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:35 am

I think Kaboom is a lunatic who is impossible to read properly. He can die, but I'd be lying if I said I had any confidence in how he was going to flip.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:03 am

In post 1761, Bulbazak wrote:So you won't lynch Aegor because he's null, but you'll lynch Kaboooom because he's null? Why should I vote a null read over a scumread of mine?

Aegor is potentially readable, but Kaboom isn't.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:16 am

Well I also think your case on Aegor is stupid, but hey have at it.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:22 pm

In post 1767, Aegor wrote:ABR people: Please switch to kab, or explain why ABR is especially scummy.

I've explained why I think he's scummy.

There was an attack on Slaandar for reasons that I think weren't all that good.
ABR voted him, adding reasons that were false.
The reason that it's scummy is that he wanted his vote to look more legitimate than it actually was.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:23 pm

I still think that Chevre is scummy.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:31 pm

Why are you defending ABR?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:32 pm

Seriously, he was lying to push a lynch as Slaandar pointed out. Now, there were reasons to think that Slaandar was scummy, but ABR was the one pushing it with lies.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:43 pm

Here is their interaction. I'll spoiler it.

Spoiler:

In post 794, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 791, emogirl123 wrote:
In post 686, Slandaar wrote:Meta, if I were scum here, I would have posted a lot more or at least thrown some nice town looking content out,
I find it interesting you think I would not consider my meta in relation to others.
This is true. ABR should not be using meta to push Slandaar's wagon. That was pretty bad of him.
Even if I'm bad at explaining my reads, they're usually right on the money. Slandaar isn't that great a player that he will adapt his meta to every single player in the game as scum, although that would be hilarious if someone actually believed him on that. In actuality, Slandaar is the coward type who will crumble under pressure as scum. I'm surprised he hasn't replaced out yet, but he might as well have, with the content he's been putting out. This isn't a difficult decision, lynch Slandaar.

Unvote, vote Slandaar

In post 795, Slandaar wrote:You have never seen me under pressure as scum.

ABR is now guaranteed scum.

In post 797, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I know you Slandaar, I know how weak and pathetic you are. Go run away.

In post 798, Slandaar wrote:Where have you seen me under pressure as scum Albert?

In post 802, Albert B. Rampage wrote:It seems like you don't remember me. Let me refresh your memory.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696

In post 803, Slandaar wrote:I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

In post 805, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 803, Slandaar wrote:I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.
Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

In post 807, Slandaar wrote:
In post 805, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 803, Slandaar wrote:I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.
Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.
OK cool story.

So, where is the pressure that you claim exists?

In post 822, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm right here Slandaar, going to watch you and your scum team burn.

In post 823, Slandaar wrote:I like how you avoided the question.

Didn't get away with it though.

In post 825, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 823, Slandaar wrote:I like how you avoided the question.

Didn't get away with it though.
You didn't ask a question.

In post 827, Slandaar wrote:Sure I did.

The one you ignored.

In post 828, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 827, Slandaar wrote:Sure I did.

The one you ignored.
Except I ignored nothing.

In post 829, Slandaar wrote:
In post 807, Slandaar wrote:
In post 805, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 803, Slandaar wrote:I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.
Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.
OK cool story.

So, where is the pressure that you claim exists?
I assume you responded to this somewhere then?

Quotes.

In post 830, Albert B. Rampage wrote:...

I responded to your question but my post got caught in the simulposting. If you didn't spam the thread with one-liners, you might have seen it. Too bad for you.

Unvote Slandaar, vote emeraldemon

I'll be coming after you tomorrow.

In post 832, Slandaar wrote:
In post 830, Albert B. Rampage wrote:...

I responded to your question but my post got caught in the simulposting. If you didn't spam the thread with one-liners, you might have seen it. Too bad for you.
When you find out your post didn't go through that is your cue to re post it.

The act is amusing though.

In post 833, Albert B. Rampage wrote:It's unpleasant when you go through all the trouble of quoting and copying and pasting, push submit and your post doesn't come through because someone ninja'd you and you thought it went through and you lost the entire post you wrote.

Cliff notes of my missing post:

You accused Brian of "obvious scum" and were voting for Goodfather. You called me "guaranteed scum" and voted for Brian. Why do you think there has to be a vote for you to be caught? If you had posted more content on either of the games I linked, you would have been run up in a second. You chose to barely show up and eventually replace out, so unless someone wants to be accused of lurker policy lynching, they were forced to ignore you. That doesn't make your situation any less precarious.

In post 839, Slandaar wrote:So, what pressure are you talking about?

I have probably 15 completed scum games and 2 I replaced out of. Why are you selectively using the 2? (I know the answer). What has me replacing out got to do with anything? I had no pressure in those games; none more than normal.

In post 840, Slandaar wrote:And both were due to disagreements with the modding, which makes it impossible to continue to play in, so, Albert, do you have a point?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:45 pm

In post 1780, emeraldemon wrote:All of his opinions are geared towards justifying his antitown actions, so of course they are consistent.

I guess I just don't think that's what's going on.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:03 pm

In post 1803, Rainbowdash wrote:Kab-scum go for Thor/Zdnek tomorrow.

I'm very obviously town. Thor is probably town because of Brian Skyes meta.
So Kab-scum means you're bussing and trying to line up lynches.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:33 pm

Well, I was taking for granted that Slaandar was telling the truth about replacing out because of conflicts with the mod and not receiving a vote in either game.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Why are you suspicious of Brian Skyes?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:17 pm

Since Brian Skyes is fairly new here, him believing that scum try to fake town-slips doesn't seem far-fetched at all to me.
Also, scum do try to fake town-slips: Amrun did it in Flash Mafia 4, but that vanished in the crash, CooLDog tried to do it is Good vs. Evil mafia (by faking a lack of awareness of the setup). So it certainly happens, it's just not all that common.

Assuming everything was factually true (which I guess is what you think), what do you think of logic behind ABR's vote?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:23 pm

Reads on Slaandar in each of the linked games prior to replacing out:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485
Mastin was calling Slaandar town.
bald eagle thought Slandaar was fluff posting early in the game, Mastin defended Slandaar from this accusation.
Matias wanted more info, and questioned Mastin's town read.
Brian Skyes was null, then to slight scum lean.
Garmr was null on Slandaar, and defended him.
Maenara thought "Slandaar is hostile, which makes one seem pro-town, but is really sorta useless when you direct it at the wrong people."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696
Lupo - Slaandar is looking bad at this point (more active in other games). Was okay with him later.
TvK - thought that Slandaar needed to do something
smargret - questioned a town read of Slandaar.
ABR voted Slandaar for no reason, later neutral on Slandaar
KidA - thought Slandaar was an iffy town read.
toolenduso - Slandaar is hard to read, but is playing to his town meta.
Om - leaning town on Slandaar
_____________

In post 794, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 791, emogirl123 wrote:
In post 686, Slandaar wrote:Meta, if I were scum here, I would have posted a lot more or at least thrown some nice town looking content out,
I find it interesting you think I would not consider my meta in relation to others.
This is true. ABR should not be using meta to push Slandaar's wagon. That was pretty bad of him.
Even if I'm bad at explaining my reads, they're usually right on the money. Slandaar isn't that great a player that he will adapt his meta to every single player in the game as scum, although that would be hilarious if someone actually believed him on that. In actuality, Slandaar is the coward type who will crumble under pressure as scum. I'm surprised he hasn't replaced out yet, but he might as well have, with the content he's been putting out. This isn't a difficult decision, lynch Slandaar.

Unvote, vote Slandaar

Regardless of whether Slandaar is a great player, there's really no evidence in either of those games that he'll crumble under pressure. He may have not been in a great position in either game, but he wasn't ever really under pressure. Funnily, by ABR's reasoning since Slandaar didn't replace out that should make him more likely to be town, as he didn't crumble under pressure.

In post 805, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 803, Slandaar wrote:I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.
Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

There's no evidence from either of those games that ABR would have caught Slandaar.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:25 pm

In this game ABR certainly had no reason to think that scum was in a bad position either.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:20 pm

In post 1813, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 1811, Zdenek wrote:Reads on Slaandar in each of the linked games prior to replacing out:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485
Mastin was calling Slaandar town.
bald eagle thought Slandaar was fluff posting early in the game, Mastin defended Slandaar from this accusation.
Matias wanted more info, and questioned Mastin's town read.
Brian Skyes was null, then to slight scum lean.
Garmr was null on Slandaar, and defended him.
Maenara thought "Slandaar is hostile, which makes one seem pro-town, but is really sorta useless when you direct it at the wrong people."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696
Lupo - Slaandar is looking bad at this point (more active in other games). Was okay with him later.
TvK - thought that Slandaar needed to do something
smargret - questioned a town read of Slandaar.
ABR voted Slandaar for no reason, later neutral on Slandaar
KidA - thought Slandaar was an iffy town read.
toolenduso - Slandaar is hard to read, but is playing to his town meta.
Om - leaning town on Slandaar
Neither of these things matter, both replace outs were not due to reads of players on him but game state shifts

In game 1 Slandaar was rage quitting due to mod stuff D1 (he was vigged N2) he quit as soon as he thought he was in a bad spot due to the mod
In game 2 his partner got lynched D1 and he replaced out immediately (his slot was second lynch down the road)

Also you sort of ignored the "but he might as well have" part of ABRs post. I see the push more of "Slandaar handles pressure badly" than anything else, which he did when you consider he was using "I am a lurker so an easy lynch" as a counterattack

Maybe you could walk me through your take on ABR's push on Slandaar then because I'm not following your take on this at all.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:08 pm

Bulbazak your questions are ridiculous. Mafia's not a fucking logic contest, so your first question is pointless. As for ABR's case, even if ABR wasn't lying about what was going on in those games, his argument for Slandaar being scum still makes no sense. If you think it does, explain it to me. As for whether it's scummy or not, it's always scummy; there's probably no glorious scummy think that only scum do.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:10 pm

In post 1803, Rainbowdash wrote:ABR probably flipping town because the lazy wagon which zdnek says applies to him and kab seems to only ever show up on ABR.

What does this even mean?