NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Tony PF]

A post on the end-of-day votecount:

For reference, here it is:

Vote Count 1.19

Slandaar (10) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar

Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz
emeraldemon (1) - inHimshallibe
emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom

Not voting (1) - Nobody Special

With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One has been extended due to the replacements and is now Wednesday, 5th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-05 20:00:00)).

Let's go over the votes on Slandaar's lynch first. Obviously mine is the first vote; I think at the time of casting it was a weak vote based primarily on a sort of active lurking but Slandaar's poor reactions to the vote strengthened my opinions on it. I'm going to affirm here that I don't think the Slandaar lynch was poorly conceptualized, but in this review I do want to look at those whose votes seem opportune or of little reason. OGML's vote is second and I think it's actually a little bit prophetic with the line "In conclusion, let's try to disingenuously dismiss all criticism out of hand", so I don't take issue with this vote either.

ABR's first vote on Slandaar (he unvotes later and then revotes) is just because he is "scummy" without explanation but that's to be expected of ABR at this point isn't it?

He does switch to emeraldemon quite quickly afterward but that wagon hasn't really taken off yet so I don't think it's a scummy hop. I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see. It does agree with OGML again which is so very strange and I think Zdenek is right to question it. Aegor, though initially I thought it scummy since he considers lynching Slandaar earlier in 607, actually has decent reasons in this post and 668, especially determining why Slandaar is the best choice out of the suspects. Despite walls on the same page, Brian Skies' vote is pretty reasonless; he notes how Slandaar is "pure evil" but I don't know if that necessarily indicates scum? The Bulbazak vote is reasonless within the post but in 634 he notes Slandaar's poor list construction (the one where he lists people he believes need to post and declares them as scum). I think Brian Skies' reasonless vote is at least in part remedied by transactions between the two on pages 31 and 32.

ABR switches back for a second time to Slandaar and this is still not the last; what's even more disconcerting is that he says in this post that his reads are "usually right on the money" but his earlier switch from Slandaar to emeraldemon seemed quite fickle.

Zdenek's vote feels right, especially since now Slandaar is all over the place and peaked with that vote switch to emeraldemon; Matias pretty much echoes these sentiments. Zekrom places a vote which I guess changes later, and it's literally reasoned by everyone else's reasons, but given what I've seen on Day 2 I'm not expecting much more. yessiree's vote is kind of pointless to include in this analysis, but for completion's sake, it actually doesn't do much in the way of reasoning, though at this point it is nearing deadline and much of the reasons have been stated and re-stated. I feel this differs from Zekrom's vote because yessiree's feels legitimate whereas Zekrom's feels like he's latching on, though these ideas are admittedly gut feels since there is so little wordage in the vote posts. I don't feel it's worth linking, but ABR switches back to make it L-1 in 929 and then Slandaar self hammers.

From the votes that were left at lynch, I think ABR's wishy-washy voting is the scummiest, but I do think most of the votes off the wagon are more fishy. I never really found Sotty7's vote reasoning for Slandaar very in-depth, and then he switches off the wagon. Zekrom's vote and switch to me before the lynch is also very scummy. emogirl also putting her vote on Brian feels scummy as well. Also Garmr barely touches the Slandaar wagon at all. As for the others, emeraldemon truly does reek of newness, and I am of mixed opinion on his vote on Brian Skies. I could totally see it as scum knowing Slandaar is not scum and thus trying to avoid flak on Day 2 but it really sort of matches emeraldemon's tone from the rest of the day. Despite it being on me, Fonz's vote wasn't really out-of-place and he declared intent to hammer. inHim, kabooooom, and Nobody Special's votes don't really bother me because they were either reading up / away, which could be scum excuses but I doubt it.

So for a concise list ( ) The end-of-day vote count makes me think Sotty7, ABR, emogirl123, Zekrom25, and Garmr are suspicious, in that order.

Wow that was a horrible,horrible, horrible post. So your scum reads list is who ever wasn't voting sland except ABR who is the flavor of the day. Are you just being lazy or even trying at all. Also you seem to be scum reading the brian skies wagon when he had done nothing nothing deserving of a town read.

I will note your passive defense of brian skies with your silent chainsawing

I actually thought it was a good post. You seem to have purposely overlooked all of the analysis that Chevre did. What specifically about her reasoning did you not like?

The bolded part is about ABR. Make what you will of it, but I think it's scummy.

[Tony PF]

I'm curious as to how you picked out those posts by ABR, if you didn't read the full 46 pages.

I did read ABR's ISO, though.

I am curious why/how you chose ABR to read in iso.

He was the flavor of the day, so I figured I'd start there and see what all the fuss was about.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 2.6

Albert B. Rampage (4) - Nobody Special, Zdenek, Zekrom25, Tony PF
Zdenek (2) - Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage
Tony PF (2) - Bulbazak, Chevre
Bulbazak (2) - inHimshallibe, Garmr
Nobody Special (1) - The Fonz
Zekrom25 (1) - Aegor
Aegor (1) - Thor665
Sotty7 (1) - OhGodMyLife

Not voting (3) - emeraldemon, kabooooom, Matias


With seventeen players alive, it takes nine votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is Friday, 21st February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-21 20:00:00)).

Note:

Thor665 is V/LA until 14th Feb.

[Bulbazak]

I thought that ABR came out stronger than Slandaar in their back and forth. And like I've said, ABR is essentially having a knee jerk reaction towards you. It's an OMGUS case. Of course it probably has BS reasons.

What argument of ABR's against Slaandar do you think is convincing?

I said that he came out

stronger

than Slandaar. Slandaar was really stretching in his cases on Brian and ABR. That was what made me think that he was the most likely scum of the argument.

ABR is essentially having a knee jerk reaction towards you. It's an OMGUS case. Of course it probably has BS reasons.

Good, so you don't think that he's trying to get scum lynched.

You should probably be voting him about now.

I don't think he's trying to get town lynched either. I think he is reacting emotionally to you. Bad case does not equal scum, or else I'd be wanting to lynch you as well.

[Zdenek]

I said that he came out stronger than Slandaar.

What the fuck does this even mean?

Run me through your case on Emogirl again.

[Zdenek]

I mean if it doesn't have something to do with the strength of their arguments than it just looks like your full of shit.

[Zdenek]

and also what it has to do with alignment because right now, I don't understand at all what you are getting at.

[Zekrom25]

any others that read as scum ?

[Zdenek]

If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.

[Bulbazak]

I said that he came out stronger than Slandaar.

What the fuck does this even mean?

Slandaar was reaching for reasons to find Brian and ABR scummy. I know that for Brian, he was actually misrepping his posts. He carried that same mindset over to ABR. As a result, I felt that ABR came out better in terms of their back and forth. You are asking me to quantify an impression that I got while initially reading their arguments, and you're doing so as a way to try to discredit that impression.

Run me through your case on Emogirl again.

Emo attacked me when I voted Garmr and stated that I saw a possible connection between her and Garmr. She then said she wanted to open up a line of discussion with me, but this is false, because she had been voting me and flat out attacking me instead of asking me questions. She then said that she was trying to defend herself, but this is false, because she was only defending Garmr the entire time. She then admits that she had been prepared to vote anyone who brought up "an actual case" on Garmr. She also talked several times about how she was trying to "town tell". Finally, when the wagon on her dissipated, so did her activity. During this time, she kept on promising a case on me, but would then fall silent and fail to deliver when not questioned on it.

Why did you want me to state this again? So that you can find a way to discredit it all?

P-edit: The point which you seem to be missing, Zdenek, is that I don't think bad cases are indicative of scum. Slandaar made bad cases, ABR has made bad cases, Fonz has made bad cases, and you are making bad cases. A case being bad does not mean it's scummy. If you want me to believe that the case is scummy, and not just bad, then you need to provide evidence of it, and using the reads of a dead man who couldn't play to his wincon and had bad cases of his own is not the way to do so.

[Zdenek]

Why did you want me to state this again?

I'm trying figure out what you think is a reasonable case.

[Zdenek]

I thought that ABR came out stronger than Slandaar in their back and forth.

Why did you defend ABR with that? It doesn't make sense to me, if you don't think that bad cases are indicative of scum.

[Bulbazak]

Why did you defend ABR with that?

I just stated my opinion. I think both of your cases are bad, but I don't think either are scummy. You've been the one driving this entire conversation beyond that.

[Zdenek]

Well, okay, but you should know that your case on Emogirl is more of a case for her being town than one for her being scum.

I'm now going to do my damnedest to ignore you because this is too frustrating and I think you're town.

[Zekrom25]

If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.

do you have any reads on ABR, Brian & Slandaar ?

[Bulbazak]

Well, okay, but you should know that your case on Emogirl is more of a case for her being town than one for her being scum.

Why's that?

If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.

do you have any reads on ABR, Brian & Slandaar ?

[emeraldemon]

Questions for everyone!

@inHimshallibe

What is your read on Tony PR [emogirl]? Do you disagree with Bulba's case?

@Zdenek

What do you think about what inHimshallibe said in 979, that scum ABR wouldn't push hard on a town wagon day 1?

@Tony PF

You say you liked Chevre's analysis in 1118, but I thought Chevre concluded that the NK didn't point to ABR. Which part are you agreeing with?

@Nobody Special

Why are you voting ABR? Also, you voted Chevre yesterday, what made you decide he's town?

@Chevre

What is your read on Bulba? Did his arguments sway you in voting Tony PR [emogirl]?

OK I lied, the rest of you are boring to me and get no questions.

[Matias]

I'm here.

Content when I'm sober and not totally pissed off at my life, bye

[Zekrom25]

Well, okay, but you should know that your case on Emogirl is more of a case for her being town than one for her being scum.

Why's that?

If that was directed to me, I don't what you are asking.

do you have any reads on ABR, Brian & Slandaar ?

WHY ???? ^

[Bulbazak]

First, it should be apparent what his read of ABR is. Second, Slandaar is dead.

[Aegor]

This game is really, really disorganized. And these days are long without much productive discussion IMO. I honestly think we should just decide now which players we still want alive when there are, say, 8 players alive and then just systematically lynch everyone else. And I am bothered by the lack of incisive scumhunting despite the number of posts.

People should ISO Zekrom. Then vote him.

I was fighting for it until my read of Chevre changed. He's now firmly in my town pile. I agree with the Sotty read coming out of the Slandaar wagon analysis. Something felt off about her yesterday that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but looking back it does feel like she was mirroring my positions at every opportunity.

Vote: Sotty7

ABR is town and I'm against the votes on him.
Also don't much like the votes for Zdenek.
Zekrom and NS are both fine votes and I would support either wagon if necessary, but I'm more interested in Sotty

OGML, are these reads still current?

I would be happy lynching NS as well. Fine with ABR lynch, actually.

ABR twice, Sotty7, and Zekrom25, from my count. I tried to analyze the wagon in 1023.

What a coincidence! Those are the people I would love to lynch.

[Bulbazak]

I honestly think we should just decide now which players we still want alive when there are, say, 8 players alive and then just systematically lynch everyone else.

Unvote

Vote Aegor

[Aegor]

Yes, like that.

[Chevre]

I'm liking Chevre's analysis here. ABR is probably scum, to the point where I can:

Where do you go from "ABR is overconfident and committing a logical fallacy (7for7 tends to be town)" to "ABR is scum"?

Well, the NK was on someone who suspected him(as was mentioned in the analysis). Not to mention the bad logic.

I definitely mentioned this analysis, but I also focused on how this type of reasoning would be incredibly easy in Day 2 so I doubt ABR-scum would kill yessiree.

@emeraldemon:

I find Bulbazak town but I don't think I was really influenced by his reasons for voting emogirl in my vote. I see in 1088 several of our points are the same, but I'm hesitant to trust associative tells when both parties' alignments are up in the air, and I think some of the contradictory and self-image-concerned behavior from her is part of her playstyle. Still, Bulbazak is one of the few people in this game who I feel is both A) town and B) in agreeance with me on various reads. However that recent Aegor vote is really reactionary; like I get it's a bad idea but there's so much require it to even come to fruition that voting someone for it seems silly. It also wasn't a surprising thing to hear from Aegor given his play so far.

Also, since I keep forgetting to address it, the missing word in 1024 was "like", as in "I like Zdenek's points about Sotty7." Reading back, it was really only one point: the one in 1012 about the bad voting record attack from 992.

[Tony PF]

@Tony PF

You say you liked Chevre's analysis in 1118, but I thought Chevre concluded that the NK didn't point to ABR. Which part are you agreeing with?

I think it does point to ABR. FMPOV Chèvre only said it was WIFOM, she never said it didn't point to ABR.