New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

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/confirm

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I'm not fertilized. I've fertilized exactly one egg in my time.

Vote House

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1Hmm. Probably paranoia, but gut scum on Titus and Cheet early. Gut town on Silverwolf. Not sure on TSO. Dragonspawn's TSO vote sucks ass though.

Prolapsed's post 64 feels awkward as fuck.

I like Ozgin's Varsoon vote. Why trust Cheet at this point?

I don't really care for Titus's Silverwolf push. It feels like an attempt to make a scene. Hell, she even said she wants a reaction. Feels like a distraction more than anything to me.

I'll read from Page 5 on later. Gotta go get my pizza. Expect me to fall behind if this pace keeps up.

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Except that's not at all what I said.

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Laladucks on Page 5 is engaging in pointless banter and ignoring everything else. Not a fan. Oh shit. Then joins the random pop up House wagon with no apparent reason.

[/unvote] I need to evaluate this House wagon, because a four vote spring-up is strange, now that you mention it.

Can you give me a reason why this would make House town?

Dragonspawn, show me where you've used that tell you're using on TSO in the past.

there are already too many votes to have its original desired effect 

What was the desired effect and why are so many votes a bad thing for it?

Drixx, why RVS Cheet without laying a vote on him?

I don't like laladuck acknowledging votes, but not responding to points.

Dragonspawn, don't expect Cheet to lurk if he's scum here. I was scum with him once and he obvtowned the fuck out of that game. He was like the best scumbuddy ever.

Boon, you said you skimmed. Any thoughts? Are you gonna do a real read or just be cool with what you picked up on the skim?

Titus, do you think Ozgin is scum or are you voting him for the murdering babies thing?

Ummm. Varsoon's citizen point is... actually a good one. I assumed it was an offsite/newbie kind of thing. Didn't realize it was in the OP. Wanting to change his town win % feels genuine though.

Titus, there is a difference between getting out of RVS and trying to ruffle feathers of a known emotional player. One is protown. The other is antitown.

Let's go with:

Unvote, Vote laladuck

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I get the wanting reactions thing. I really do. It's just that using emotions to do it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Emotional responses tend to be less about the game than people seem to think. I don't think you're scum with Silverwolf though, so there's that.

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Egg, Emotions are emotions. I'm not manipulating how anyone would feel. That's scummy. I'm merely testing to see how she would react. Town Silverwolf and scum Silverwolf do react differently.

I didn't see it that way, but whatever. You sound like you have more experience with her than I do. I don't even have a completed game with her.

So tso claims to be town off the bad and I vote for it in random voting and my reasoning is bad.

Ozgin claims to be a citizen and he's scum.

Not following the logic here. Though I certainly agree that claiming he was a citizen was unnecessary and odd.

Claiming town is whatever, people do it. Claiming a VT role is NOT something that happens every day is really anti-town. He said this was how he always describes town. No, if that was the case, he'd say he's a townie or town like TSO did.

He straight up said that if he's a power role, he'd say the same thing.

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When did he say vanilla townie?

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Titus, I took Ozgin's thing as a "town claim" rather than a VT claim. Considering that's what he said he meant.

Ozgin, can you clarify the above again?

I don't like how much effort Kitz put into that post that just repeats what Titus said...

Drixx, I hadn't read up to that point yet when I made my first post.

Kitz is fun but her behaviour still strikes me as odd, even though I think I'm kinda much the same. Interesting.

This feels like scum who is scum reading someone for playing like them.

I'm up to 285

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everyone is scumhunting.

This assumes everyone is playing optimally. I have yet to see a game where everyone plays optimally. Or at least I can't remember one. If you are scum, however, I fully expect that you'll be scumhunting genuinely which is why your blatant misrep of Ozgin is throwing me off guard...

Ozgin, that's fair on the House thing. I just wanted to make sure you realized that in this setup, even a scummy wagon can be on scum.

Varsoon feels like he's buddying Bookitty.

Bookitty, can you explain your town reads on Cheet and Titus?

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I'll try to catch up tomorrow. No promises.

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Sure.

Cheetory is actively engaging with people and pushing suspicions in a way that feels organic. While this could be a product of scum-vs-scum in this game, it doesn't feel like that to me.

Titus is addressing the game in ways I've seen her do as town. This doesn't prove anything for anyone else (though it gives me warm fuzzies toward her) but as I said I wouldn't lynch her anyway because she's way more effective with a flip or two to analyse. I am more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt based on her play and accuracy in other games I've played with her.

That's what Cheet does as scum with another scum group. I've seen it. No offense, but the Titus read doesn't feel great either.

I tend to agree. Why should townies fear house? If he is scum we will lynch him. If he is town he will help us lynch the scum. How about we let him play a little before we speculate on what his alignment is.

I think the point was that they are scum who fear House. But if that were the case, couldn't they pretty much ignore him today and just NK him?

@Egg: Damn right I'm buddying Bookitty. Bookitty should be my buddy. If enough buddies get together, they can form a strong pact that'll destroy the scum. At this point, I don't care if my buddies are scum or third party. We need to eliminate an entire team or we lose. I've been in multiball before. If scum and third party double-down on their kills on town (and if town has killing abilities they mess up too), then we could easily lose several of our members after a mislynch. It's best to have everyone working together rather than against each other. I'll make friends and buddies for that cause.

That doesn't make me feel any better. Or worse, oddly enough.

Skybird seems... more serious... since Cheet's case was posted. Not sure how I feel about that.

Boon is probably town so that's pretty cool I guess.

I feel better about laladucks. The first couple of effort posts have a good feel to them. And then the fact that she shows a difference between good votes on her and dragonspawn's which I agree kind of sucks.

House, why no vote on Varsoon on Page 15?

Skybird, I assume you've played with House considering where you came from. Would you really expect House to come into this game any differently as scum? Really? Abrasive and not giving a shit is just House. It's not just town House. It's House.

Titus, why is Varsoon town?

Being an ass has a much higher survival rate, in my experience.

And survival is your goal? Because that tends to matter to scum more than town. And seeing the discussion after this post, let me just say this. House, you know you frustrate me sometimes, right?

Dragonspawn, as someone who suspects Varsoon, I don't see your issue with him. Mentioning the SK when it comes to survival is fair. Assuming they are bulletproof is also fair. However, House was just saying stuff about being an ass not getting him NK'd so if Varsoon is trying to argue that House is SK, it's a bad arguement.

Oh look! A danio in a vote count! I have one of those. Got him over two years ago. And I actually had a dream about that tank last night where my fiance just kept buying more and more fish until they were too crowded.

Titus, remind me to go back to your 492 if two scum from the same team flip that were already on that wagon at that point. Scum tend to not want to all vote together because it feels "obvious" even though it isn't and it's entirely possible that Silverwolf is afraid to sheep scumbuddies on that wagon. Or maybe she is scum with Ozgin and doesn't want to bus but knows he is scummy so she's going to the other wagon that is building. Either way though, you're right that she seems like she's avoiding the wagon and I don't like it.

Anen feels like he doesn't want to be on wagons. He suspects Ozgin. He thinks dragonspawn is his buddy. There are wagons on both. And he votes Kitz on a "what if". What?

Unvote

On Ozgin, I dislike Titus's case. He didn't claim VT. He claimed town. However. The way he claimed it still pretty bad. The word citizen isn't nearly as common as townie. At first, I thought it was an offsite kind of thing. It felt awkward but it was no big deal. But saying it over and over when that's how it is phrased in the OP, yeah. It feels like he's trying to make sure he uses the right vote. I intend to vote him, but let me count votes first.

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Vote Ozgin

It's only L-4 so that's cool with me

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House, you seemed to be scumreading him when you said:

but this shit STILL smacks of scum motivation.

Later, you also used the phrase "zero town motivation" regarding Varsoon. How is that not a scum read?

Ozgin, so that's supposed to mean you never said it? So you can't possibly have taken it from the OP? Because... just lol.

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That's not the point though, or at least not my point. I'm not taking it as a VT claim. I'm wondering why we should believe it's a coincidence that you used the same uncommon phrase for it as the sample PM uses and then used it repeatedly.

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Stop trolling. If you were really a jester, you wouldn't play it like this

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My jester claim was SO supernatural, superserious right?

Just as serious as anything else you've done...

That's not the point though, or at least not my point. I'm not taking it as a VT claim. I'm wondering why we should believe it's a coincidence that you used the same uncommon phrase for it as the sample PM uses and then used it repeatedly.

This.

Also, Titus, I buy that Ozgin is scum. But we need to figure out associations while there's still time in the day.

Usually you figure those out after a scum flip. But just for fun, what do you think about my Silverwolf and Anen points about avoiding the wagon (Titus gets most of the credit for the Silverwolf one, but it's more my elaboration I'm curious about your thoughts on)

I'm also eading oz as more townish. I don't like how his wagon is already at L4 this early in the game. Obvious I'm willing to keep an eye on him. I should take a closer look at his wagon too.

I'm sure the wagon is loaded with scum. Doesn't make him town in this setup. Where do you think he pulled the term "citizen" from?

Skybird, but didn't you say you were town reading him for the abrasive don't give a shit attitude? Or am I misremembering? Because if that's what you said, your meta on him (which matches mine by the way) contradicts that point.

Aww shucks. I guess ill call the neighborhood watch to keep an eye on you.

Please do. That comment scared me.

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Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

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To be fair, my read on you changed to null when you started explaining the skybird thing.

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Anen, I don't have a problem with voting off the wagon when we are nowhere near deadline. But you seem to have a stronger case for Ozgin and maybe even dragonspawn than you do on kitz. The fact that kitz hasn't responded to you doesn't really bother me because your case was a non-commital "what if". If you hadn't attached the vote, I wouldn't be sure you were scumreading kitz. Hell, I'm still not entirely sure you are.

Still to Anen, yeah Titus's case sucks. I don't care if Ozgin says he's a "citizen" yet is actually a power role. If I'm a power role, which I neither confirm nor deny, I want scum to think I'm a VT. So that part of the case is absolute BS. However, I've made my own point and I think it's a strong one. And I know where you are going with this. If Titus is scum who has a bad case on Ozgin, Ozgin could still be scum. Even scum has four opposing scum members whose identities they most likely don't know, six in the case of the nuetral player.

I'm gonna eat before I read Taly's post.

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Taly, that unvote feels more like "I don't want to be associated with the people on the wagon than "I think Ozgin is town".

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Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

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Anen, there are two cases with the "citizen" thing. I'll give you Titus's first and then mine. Note that I don't like Titus's

1) Ozgin said citizen. That means VT. Why would he claim VT so early?

2) Ozgin used the uncommon term "citizen" rather than "townie". The sample PM says "citizen". He looked at the sample PM.

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Let's try this again dragonspawn:

Couldn't he have just said that when I asked the first approximately three times, initially giving him the benefit of the doubt?

pretty sure he did.

Someone is gonna have to show me then because last I knew he left open the possibility he is a power role which rules that out.

I think the fact he used citizen isn't the issue. If he is a citizen why would he claim something else no matter how much the term is used?the problem is he claimed. And then afterwards said he was using it to say he is town but not the actual role. That's the problem.is that enough to make him scum? Maybe. Should we be focusing on him as much as we are? Probably not.but whether he is town or scum we might be able to look at his wagon and find some of the scum on it

This is such a wishy washy almost defense kind of post. Like you want to defend him without calling him town.

Skybird, you are town reading House for something you and I both believe he does as town and scum. I don't understand why.

Taly, I mostly got that impression because you are still making points against him and trying to justify unvoting with things like the fact that he is L-4 so early or wanting to see him play without pressure. Even calling him bad town feels like an excuse. I think it's possible you just don't want your name on the wagon.

I don't get it. I'm interpreting conflicted data here and it makes me suspicious of you people. Do you guys really think I'm in it with Ozgin and/or Dragon? If so, you've never stated why.

I don't think Ozgin or dragonspawn is scum WITH you, no.

Ozgin, ISO me. I'm pretty sure you'll find my point on you in about three of my last five posts.

Who are you thinking taly doesn't want to associate with?

I don't think Taly wants to be lumped in with those voting Ozgin.

Titus, why would scum NOT want to lynch the other team? That makes no sense.

Radiant, why are you in this game?

Varsoon, I'd love to know your super secret dragonspawn tell but outting roles is bad, so *shrug*. Let me at least ask this. Are you sure enough that if he flips town, it means you were lying or could you be wrong?

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Dragonspawn, "I think he is town" is more than you said in your initial defense though. It was still wishy washy. As for Taly, I don't know specifically. It just felt like "oh shit get my name off this wagon". I think it's more the fact that the wagon is being scrutinized and will be scrutinized than any specific player(s) on the wagon.

Anen, I agree that the reaction was bad. He can't "retract" the fact that he said citizen. That doesn't just go away.

Skybird. Hold up. Where did House answer someone else's question? Because yeah he does get pissed when people do that? Also, your read feels weird. Like you are looking for reasons not to lynch him but can't come up with any.

Taly, you do realize that with multiple scum teams, Titus possibly being scum and the speed of the wagon are bad reasons to unvote, right? I can understand the rest, but you seem like you are re-asserting my point about you. And yeah concise would be good.

Silverwolf, can you show me what you mean as far as Bookitty? Regarding Taly though, my recent posts should show that you are wrong and I actually do have an issue with that. Probably more than with you in fact.

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Ok Skybird. You were calling him town at first but that's fair. I'm satisfied for now.

Silverwolf, ok. In your case, it's not really an issue unless Ozgin flips scum and dragonspawn turns out to not be his buddy.

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Anen, TSO is the only one of your town reads I understand. How is posting style alignment indicitive? Why is Varsoon town if you don't like his Ozgin stance? Why is genuine scumhunting a town tell in a game with multiple teams?

Titus, what makes you think my scum read on you is random? Why is Boon lynchable?

Varsoon, I don't think Kitz didn't understand there were multiple scum teams. I think Kitz just didn't know the numbers were a ratio to represent that. Kitz, am I right?

Boon, sometimes doing VCA too early without flips can lead to bad conclusions. Those conclusions can lead to confirmation bias getting in the way when it's the right time to VCA. I think I understand what you are getting at though.

Guys I'm not so sure we should be lynching dragonspawn.

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Silverwolf, weren't we talking about Bookitty's Ozgin stance?

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Fair enough

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I'm not exactly an expert on Boon, but he feels pretty fucking obvtown to me.

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Prolapsed, I honestly can't believe that for someone who has said so little, THAT is what you are choosing to focus on.

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Ok Skybird. You were calling him town at first but that's fair. I'm satisfied for now.

Silverwolf, ok. In your case, it's not really an issue unless Ozgin flips scum and dragonspawn turns out to not be his buddy.

ozgin is not my buddy. I just am not impressed with the case.

taly and wolf had some lengthier posts I need to respond to from a better computer.

Yeah I get that now. I've seen the light.

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Anen, ok. I think we define posting style differently, but I understand what you are saying about it. Also pretty sure I remember Varsoon lurking as town twice. This feels like a new Varsoon regardless of his alignment. I think I see what you mean about the more active scumhunters exposing themselves too. They open themselves up to being polarizing figures who end up lynched or NK'd so it isn't a safe play. Is that basically where you are going with that? If so, take Titus. Can you picture her playing any other way? Why don't you think I'd question you as scum? That comment felt weird to me.

Boon, would you really describe Anen's play as "cruising" right now? Has he done anything that fits his scum meta so far? Are you familiar with his town meta?

Varsoon, I caught on a quick skim earlier that you claimed a neighborhood. Why, on Page 33, did you say you want to scumhunt in the other neighborhood specifically? Why exclude your own neighborhood?

It would be much more beneficial for a scum to (1) push an existing wagon with our without providing any reasons, (2) make as few interactions as they can, maybe even lurking, (3) insta-attack a player without talking to him/her but making sure that the wagon never gets close to lynch or (4) as a special case of (3), Chainsaw someone.Instead of these, what did Egg do? He asked questions from quite a few players, including me, who's neither too significant now, nor amongst the "common scumreads". (As far as I remember, I'm generally in the null-town zone.) Would it make sense from a scum-Egg? Sure, he may get some town credit for it but a gameplay like this doesn't move the game into a scum-favoured direction (framing players or going for mislynches/other scumfaction lynches). That's not much. Would it make sense from a town-Egg? Absolutely; he seems to be into sorting out as many players as he can

Well. Your conclusion is right but this is still flawed logic. Your #1 ignores the fact that I am voting Ozgin. #2 and 4 ignore the fact that I don't lurk strategically or chainsaw. And 3 is also something I don't do. I don't think you've ever seen my scum game if I'm remembering correctly, so these wrong meta assumptions are weird to me.

I can't stay awake. I'll start at Page 35 tomorrow.

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Varsoon, how do you figure dragonspawn hasn't taken a convicted approach to this game? He seems to be to me. Also, now that I've seen in the neighborhood that the claim is out from him and Boon, I can say this. Why were you trying so hard to make them claim. It was obvious it would be something mason-like. Was it that important for it to be said? Why keep pushing when it became obvious? Why also keep pushing him as scum? Even if he is, he's not a Day 1 lynch. One of the three non-town factions pretty much has to kill them at some point.

Dragonspawn, I know the hood hasn't been insanely active, but saying it's hardly been used seems like an exaggaration as well. You and I have been talking in there. Bookitty was talking in there. House, while he is making a point about not wanting to say much, has still been posting there. Even Kitz has posted some. It's not like we are still on the first page or anything.

Radiant, I don't think you answered my question. Why are you playing?

Drinking game. Anytime someone does something stupid. Drink.

My liver could never handle this.

House, where has Bookitty AtE'd?

Anen, sorry but that style of response was hard to follow. What were you looking for hints on? Titus? I don't think I've seen her scum game before...Also, I agree with your whole paragraph about mafia being an evolving game. But you still won't ever see me lurk strategically. My activity depends 100% on real life and right now I happen to have 24 consecutive days off work so poker and family are the only reasons for me not to post. That's why I'm mostly keeping up with this game. My town PM has nothing to do with it. I'm mostly trying to determine whether your read on me is a genuine one and I think it is. Unfortunately, you could still be scum with a legitimate read with multiple teams so, *shrug*.

Skybird, you said you have Boon as town. Do you have dragonspawn as town as well or is your Boon read a weak one?

Cheet, why don't I get a post about my ISO like the rest of your colored reads. (Or at least some of them but still) </3

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Ah

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The whole point in sample PMs is supposed to be to show you what a town PM looks like so scum can't be caught that way. Still, Anen not having green feels weird. But at the same time, if he was scum, I assume he'd lie and say it's the same as the sample PM. Not quite sure what to think. I mean, mine looks like the sample as far as the green but maybe Wake forgot to color Anen's. I'm not gonna consider it telling because I can't see Anen slipping up on that, especially when he's the one who brought it up and there's a sample PM.

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I'm keeping my vote on Ozgin for reasons that Bookitty is making clear right now and because I don't trust Varsoon to sort him.

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Top of Page 42. Silverwolf is trying too hard to defend Ozgin. Remember she was avoiding his wagon earlier. I'm going to take a hard look at Silverwolf if Ozgin flips scum.

Fa, on the lala role PM point, you make a point that should make lala town. How could she have genuinely looked at her role before the sample PM like you said and come up with the answer she came up with? But then you vote her. I don't understand.

I think lala is scum who does not have enough time to play or inclination to read the entire damn thread as it is quite an undertaking in these large games. As I said - it is extremely opportunistic.

Personally, I don't think she'd have any more free time as town than as scum.

Drixx, have you played with both townBoon and scumBoon? Because I have and I agree he's different.

Radiant, why are you playing?

Prolapsed, do you have day talk?

Anyone voting Prolapsed for meta, have you also seen his town game?

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Oh, sweet. Game started. I skimmed real fast. Like real fast. Sup, dragon, how you doin'? Eh, house and Bookitty probably scum again.

VOTE: bookitty

Was it coincidence that in the post you call a crumb, you mentioned two of dragonspawn's neighbors and voted one?

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I dunno. I'm kind of starting to doubt myself on Ozgin which I hate doing. I mean he could have easily seen "citizen" in his own Role PM, but then the whole VT argument makes no sense coming from him. But he's starting to feel genuine when he talks about it. I'm just not sure what to think. Then if Varsoon really is a town power role, it makes sense to let him sort Ozgin. But that requires Varsoon being town which I'm far from sold on. Then there's prolapsed. I mentioned one of his posts feeling awkward earlier but that would be the entire substance of any case from me. I could maybe vote skybird or Taly but I don't think I can convince ten people to join me. Radiant would be 100% policy. Anyone else would be weak gut and who is gonna follow that? So I have to either stay on Ozgin or vote Prolapsed and neither of those options seems like the absolute best we could do Day 1.

Varsoon, are you absolutely positive you can sort Ozgin?

Actually. If Ozgin is scum and he or his buddies are a RB, Varsoon is almost certainly getting blocked.

Ugggggghhhhhh.

I dunno. Ozgin is still a better lynch than Prolapsed I think.

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Bookitty said:

Ozgin really likes this; he even quotes himself a couple of paragraphs later in the same post, something I've never seen anyone do before. It's worth noting that this was during what looks to be a reachout to former scumbuddies SilverWolf and Cheetory.

A reachout to my former scumbuddies, are you shitting me? SilverWolf has scumread me most of this game and I expressed my distrust for Cheetory early in this game.

Ozgin was pretty vehement in responding that it wasn't a reach-out to you guys when I characterised it that way.

Actually. Now that I just started doubting myself, is this really as blatant a contradiction from Ozgin as I think it is?

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Ozgin was pretty vehement in responding that it wasn't a reach-out to you guys when I characterised it that way.

And I'm pretty sure he's saying that he dislikes being characterized as just having buddied us.

Idfk I know I'm defending Ozgin a lot, and while it might seem dumb because I'm not even strongly townreading him or anything, I just don't like the angles people are choosing to push on him atm. It feels too self-assured, sleazy and misdirect-ish.

I get what you are saying except that you are saying it to Bookitty who I feel has been pretty logical with her case. Had this been directed at Titus, for example, I'd get it completely.

[Egg]

Ah. That makes more sense then

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Good news is, Cheetory is taking the mantle of AP and ETL, which means he's not likely scum with Ozgin.

I was hoping you'd address the points in his last post rather than calling him not scum with Ozgin and calling it a day

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Fa, right here:

points in 1034. I don't like how lala points to people as scum with the only discernible reason being others recently pointed that direction - particularly sheeping boon who provides nothing to sheep other than being town.

I think lala is scum who does not have enough time to play

or inclination to read the entire damn thread as it is quite an undertaking in these large games. As I said - it is extremely opportunistic.

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Titus, 1154 has two question marks in it. 1156 doesn't answer those questions.

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Oh shit maybe Cheet was talking to Bookitty there. I suck lol

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Fa, right here:

points in 1034. I don't like how lala points to people as scum with the only discernible reason being others recently pointed that direction - particularly sheeping boon who provides nothing to sheep other than being town.

I think lala is scum who does not have enough time to play

or inclination to read the entire damn thread as it is quite an undertaking in these large games. As I said -

it is extremely opportunistic.

Read the entire thing egg.

Those are two points. I don't have any issue with you thinking lala's play is opportunistic. What I have an issue with is your stance on her role PM talk and your shot at her free time.

Hmm. Prolapsed included night talk in his answer to me. Sounds like someone who doesn't realize the game has day talk. That's actually a town response.

Boon, ok. That makes sense.

Yeah, so my vote is probably not coming off Ozgin today unless something big happens.

I can see Boons/Dragon both being town, but if they really are BFFs then they have the same alignment. Which could be scum or town.

Isn't best friend just "You know X is town. They know you are town"? Or am I misunderstanding that?

Then that'd probably indicate to us that Ozgin is likely scum

Or that they decided to WIFOM us, get Ozgin lynched, and block a claimed power role all at the same time.......... By the way, sorry if I missed it but what is your read on Varsoon?

Bookitty, House, Dragon are together in a hood

Kitz and I are in that hood too.

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FA, the only way your posts make sense is if you dismissed the free time thing. Either way, it doesn't seem to matter to you so it doesn't matter to me. I'll read Taly's post later. About to get kicked off library computer. Reached limit. Bullshit lol

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Taly, I have Kitz as town and Varsoon as scum pending his claim and what he does with it.

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Taly, your description of Varsoon's scum meta sounds like his two town games I was in with him as well. I wouldn't consider him town just for not playing to his meta.

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Taly, your description of Varsoon's scum meta sounds like his two town games I was in with him as well. I wouldn't consider him town just for not playing to his meta.

I was describing why I thought he was town, versus what I've seen in his scum-game.

What about Varsoon do you see is scummy?

Yeah but what you've seen in his scum game is what I've also seen in his town game. Couldn't I argue he's not playing to his town meta by your logic? I think he's scummy for:
-buddying. Examples include the trusting Cheet comment, trying to build a trust block (a town block but doesn't care if they are town), and comments towards Bookitty early in the game.
-possibly misrepping Kitz on the setup
-wanting to hunt scum from the neighborhood he's not in, but not his own neighborhood
-blatant rolefishing on dragonspawn and Boon.

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Titus, you're right. I thought he did it to someone else, I just didn't remember it was you. Do you think he could be defending Ozgin because Ozgin is a claimed VT and he'd rather run up a power role outting yet another one? Or is that too tinfoil?

[Egg]

Personally, I don't think she'd [lala] have any more free time as town than as scum.

Eggsactly!

You ducked his other points.

[Egg]

Varsoon you straight up admitted to the buddying. Just because you paint it in a positive light doesn't mean it's not there. And you were clearly pushing dragonspawn to claim what you thought would be mason. I don't even know how you can say otherwise. I know you addressed most if not all of this but nothing you said made it go away.

[Egg]

Oh, sweet. Game started. I skimmed real fast. Like real fast. Sup, dragon, how you doin'? Eh, house and Bookitty probably scum again.

VOTE: bookitty

Was it coincidence that in the post you call a crumb, you mentioned two of dragonspawn's neighbors and voted one?

Actually, this should probably be given some attention.
But I'm a bit biased in regards to the Boon/Dragons claim.
:/

Boon said he was referencing another game with House and Bookitty. I know where you are going with it and I was thinking the same thing.

We can discuss this more if you want, but I don't think it forwards the game-state that much.

You're right. We'll end up talking in circles because you already did it. I found it scummy. You responded and didn't change my mind. Anything after that point will just be repeated arguments.

I'll look back at your ISO another time but I definitely remember you pushing dragonspawn to claim.

If that makes me scum, fuck it, lynch me. 

You and I both know that isn't doable today. You've softed a power role and that could sway some of the little support I'd get.

[Egg]

@FAQ2: I think a lot of the points you're making against laladucks are the reasons why the Prolapsed wagon is as popular as it is.
I'll hold that any player who has low content and low quality-per-post is low-hanging fruit. That doesn't really speak towards their alignment, but instead towards how easily they might be lynched.
At this point in the game, I'd be fine with a lynch on laladucks as well. I'm holding out to see what Prolapsed has to post.

The difference is brain is a straight up PL - there is no content there. Lala has directly posted scummy CONTENT. She also continues to evade the questions brought to her about that scummy content. Lala is clearly scum.

I thought the case on Prolapsed was mostly meta. I mean, I'm not voting him but I have him as weak scum for an awkward post early in the game. I don't think anyone is voting him for policy. I could be wrong. It's happened before and it will happen again.

Lala, please don't do the "easy lynch" copout. Anyone who gets 11 votes on Day 1 is "easy". Scum can be "easy" to vote. It's just a bad point to make. If it becomes a pattern, we'll talk. But one "easy" vote on Day 1 isn't a big deal.

[Egg]

You'll notice I'm voting Ozgin.

[Egg]

Yeah but you quoted me.

=P

[Egg]

Yeah but you quoted me.

=P

Yes. I did. I was quoting you to say you were right. The "fast lynch" push is crap. Ozgin should be lynched. Time to dispense with the bullshit reasons people aren't voting him and get this done.

*Egg likes this post*

[Egg]

What is the vote count?

If I'm counting right, Oz is L-6 and Prolapsed is L-5. Don't take that as fact though.

FA, who voted Prolapsed for policy? I missed that one apparently.

[Egg]

Anen, I don't know how Prolapsed plays as town. My point was more that it's hard to say this is his scum meta without knowing his town meta and I suspect that some people may be doing that. Also, given his play so far, do you think it's more likely he faked a response to my question or that he was too lazy to read the rules?

Ozgin, you misunderstood my vote on you. It wasn't because it was L-4 and it was never a pressure vote. I decided you were probably scum but didn't want to hammer prematurely, so I counted votes and when I saw you were L-5 I was ok voting you. By the way I don't get your Bookitty vote. It feels like it's strictly OMGUS.

Titus, (to 1328) which of the laladuck votes do you think are Ozgin's buddies then?

Silverwolf, five I think

[Egg]

I was mostly commenting on where you said the lala wagon is taking off because Ozgin is scum. That implies his buddies are on the wagon. And I'll never understand why you think scum wants opposing scum alive but that's all theory so whatever. Also why is Taly town?

[Egg]

What kind of logic is that?
I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.
Ideally. Right?

I agree with this. Titus is probably the only person I've seen argue that scum want other scum teams to stay alive.

[Egg]

More than half of the game's deaths will happen at night. If you can eliminate all opposing NKs as scum, all you have to do is survive the lynches. You don't even have to worry about the night anymore at that point.

[Egg]

Anen, I meant where I asked if he had day talk and you said his answer could be faked. I personally think it's more likely he's lazy town who didn't realize day talk exists in this game.

Anen, if you are town gtfo lala and recognize drowning newbtown when you see it.Large games are a lot for new players to take in. Read her posts in context.

Large games are especially tough for new players without daytalk with scumbuddies telling them exactly how to get pressure off of them too. Lala is either town or has shit scumbuddies.

House, you have Boon as town and Dragonspawn as scum. You realize this makes absolutely no sense, right?

Unless he is bulletproof or Acetic or whatever

Holy fuck with the rolefishing...

Maybe it's all in perspective, but the counterwagons that keep being proposed just make Ozgin look even more like a sure thing to me.

If you and Titus are going to keep saying things like this, you'll have to point out where Ozgin's scumbuddies are on these wagons.

Dragonspawn, why would scum fake reads with another team to look for?

Post 1476 by Bookitty is exactly why we should be lynching Ozgin.

Cheet, I don't get your timing issue. It was early in the game and if it was something he wanted to do from the beginning, it makes perfect sense.

[Egg]

Silverwolf I'm pretty sure that in 7 years of playing mafia, at one point 10 games at a time being my minimum, I've never seen a VT "slip their role".

[Egg]

Holy fuck I can't keep up with this shit

[Egg]

Holy fuck I can't keep up with this shit

It's twilight. Be quick.

What do I need to respond to? I'm not really able to read multiple pages right now

[Egg]

Well. Cheet and Bookitty probably aren't scum with Varsoon due to his buddying. Dragonspawn (and boon by extension) and Titus probably aren't scum with him due to his rolefishing. And I was wrong about those I thought were avoiding the Ozgin wagon being his buddies.

It might be a couple RL days before I do anything too huge with this game.

[Egg]

Central Hood:
Wake, Dragonspawn, Bookitty, Kitz, Egg

Bastion Hood:
Varsoon, Cheetory, Drixx, TSO

Content to add Drixx and TSO to the not Varsoon buddies you listed Egg.

VOTE: Kitz

Your turn House. You gets sheep's.

Yeah I can agree with that.

) Varsoon says that he wants to fakeclaim masons with me. I said no because that's dumb.

Wtf? You probably should have told us that yesterday. That's like...blatantly scummy. Can you elaborate on FA? He slightly pinged my gut but I can't remember much about anything major.

Titus, why does that point to kitz?

[Egg]

I'll do that tomorrow at some point. Right now I need to sleep. And I'll pray that I don't wake up to another 20 pages.........

Preview edit: Ah. Makes sense. But maybe Varsoon's buddies have experience with you and see you as a general threat? Just a thought. I really need to sleep though so last post tonight.

[Egg]

Titus, now that I'm a little more awake I noticed what you were talking about. My "that" to Cheet wasn't Varsoon wanting you dead. It was Varsoon wanting to fakeclaim masons with Cheet. It makes no sense from town.

Lala, it's more that JEEP's tells became outdated as the game evolved. Gloating is probably the one that stayed the most valid though. You could also be accused of "congratulating the doc".

[Egg]

I mean, scum has no reason not to try and scumhunt.
I think he genuinely was paranoid of Titus potentially being scum.

Wouldn't he just shoot Titus himself then? Also, what Anen said.

I think he was expressing an anxiety that he was feeling over her in the game.

This may or may not mean he thought she was scum...

Kitz, the only logic I really see unless Titus explained on Day 1 somewhere is that she's sheeping House and I don't even know House's reasons.

[Egg]

Silverwolf, if you were ok with dragonspawn's intent, why ask if we wanted more discussion? I mean, it would probably be a bigger deal to me if Ozgin was scum but still. That almost seems to contradict.

Metal Sonic faked masons with me before as town.

Well that's Metal Sonic. Is Varsoon a complete idiot? He flipped scum anyway so this doesn't really matter much. What do you think about Cheet not sharing this? Were you town when Metal Sonic did it? How did you react? How would you expect a logical player to react to such a proposition?

House faked an innocent on Kitz. Her response was "Wat". Who does not believe a cop innocent on you.

From House in that spot, I probably wouldn't, especially in a normal game. If you just accept that someone has an innocent on you, you're probably too naive to play mafia.

Skybird seems to be slinging mud on Page 73.

Kitz, do you really think it's more likely that House was trolling that legitimately reaction testing?

Drixx kind of reads like someone keeping his options open with Kitz. Like he says it's something he'd do as town but it's a weak scum tell. That makes no sense to me.

As far as House's neighborhood posts, I don't think Kitz is lying. Futile to read sounds right. Protecting, I take as Kitz's interpretation that I don't agree with. It's not a lie. It's a different way of looking at it.

Cheet, are you still scumreading skybird?

I don't like Titus seeming to assume that scum tried killing her. How can you assume that and why would it be stopped with four claimed power roles out there?

Lol at the Titus "blue" maybe slip like post. I'd laugh if she pushed the Ozgin slip as town all day 1 and slipped herself. I'll look again when I'm sober. Wait, wtf? Autocorrect? Wtf did you mean to say then lol? And a self vote? Holy fuck lol. Lol is this as obvious as it looks or is it the booze? I'll decide tomorrow

[Egg]

Just a heads up, I'm not caught up from yesterday yet. Skimmed and it looks like mostly BS but I'll probably read it anyway. Also flying to Vegas tomorrow until June 3. I'll try to keep up but we'll see I guess.

House, are you a JoAT for the other non-red mafia team?

You look

really

suss right now, considering we've had a JoAT flip from redmaf and town.

This is BS. Multiple JOATs seem to be getting more common lately. I mean, if you were going to make this point, it should have been made with Varsoon's flip for symmetry. The town JOAT doesn't make House scum at all.

[Egg]

Sorry guys I have to take:

V/LA until June 3

I wanna enjoy Vegas and this game is too early and too large for me to keep up while I'm gone.

[Egg]

Apparently planes might have wifi these days. I don't get how or why but maybe that means I'll have some time for this game in a few hours?

[Egg]

I'll try to catch up tomorrow

[Egg]

Guys, I'm reading a little bit where I can and I noticed something. I know I've been townreading lala but on Page 80, she was fake dayvidged and responded with "what the hell" and "are you fucking serious" which to me sounds like she may have believed it. Then the "you got me" GIF sounds like a scumclaim. Only after it's pointed out that it was fake does she go out of her way to say that she was trolling (which, who trolls and then TELLS you immediately that they were trolling?) And to me, that kind of sounds like an excuse. I might be able to back this wagon after all.

Egg, I only have one post on 73 and I'm not sure I understand why it is slinging mud. Kitz reaction to the fake claim was not what I expected. If house had claimed a guilty result on him, I'd expect to see that reply.

Enough time has passed that I'm going to have to go back and see what I was talking about. I'm at the mall now so it will have to wait. Someone make sure I remember to do this.

[Egg]

Oh, right. The skybird point was about Kitz's response to House's fake innocent result. You didn't add anything to the discussion at all. Just rolled with "why wouldn't you believe it if you're town". It's BS. I wouldn't have believed him either. Day actions in normal games, even if they are considered normal (are they?) Are rare enough that my first thought would be House is full of shit. I don't see why the reaction is so bad.

Prolapsed, can you tell me why you thought Taly and lala were scum with Titus?

Boon, can you tell me why you thought lala was scum with Titus? FA, same question.

@Egg - I saw your little note about me being cautious in my thoughts about Kitz. Why did you only note my reactions to Kitz and not anyone else? I tend to take a fairly cautious approach in general when it comes to deciding whether someone is scum or not and using my vote, as anyone who has played with me is surely aware. Why the special attention in regards to just one person?

I comment on what stands out. If I commented on every post in the thread, you guys would all hate me.

Holy shit to lala's day entrance. I mean. First of all, assuming House is scum because of a town JOAT flip while ignoring Varsoon's N1 flip is off. But then Anen flips a power role and she says she suspected he was a power role? Ok then...

Taly, you mentioned trying to make sense of the TSO kill, but I don't see any conclusions. What did you come up with?

Silverwolf, what made you think to ISO the NK targets?

I'm through Page 83 and falling asleep.

[Egg]

Taly, I'm on Page 84 and it looks like your case on House is effectively that he thinks Kitz is scum and someone who sheeped him died and you think he's the second scummiest player after lala. Please tell me I'm wrong. Also from that same post, you say TSO was townreading Kitz, but later that the TSO kill could implicate Kitz. Why?

But you were on the Titus wagon 2041 - whereas, House was bussing Kitz.

How do you know he was bussing?

The House "slip" is BS.

Radiant, I don't agree with your point about Cheet. Like he's scum because he's not getting emotional over something someone said on the internet or...? But toanswer your question, I've seen his scum game and he's just obvtown as fuck. Actually, the link you provided is the game I'm talking about. And he wasn't nuetral in tone there, especially when talking to luca. What I do find interesting though is that after you call a nuetral tone a scum tell for him, he appears to go out of his way to not come off that way.

Prolapsed, you aren't the first person to say lala and taly are scum together. You do, however, have the opportunity to be the first to explain why (unless it's come up and I haven't made it that far yet)

Drixx, the empty space joke wasn't obvious to anyone not familiar with physics. I didn't get it until Radiant explained it. Note that I wouldn't bring this up if it wasn't game relevant, but you are using it to say House is scum and I disagree with your point. Also, I don't think House called Silverwolf dense. I think she took his posts towards her that way and actually brought that up herself. So your point that she should have been upset at House rather than Radiant is wrong too. Although it's possible I'm remembering that wrong. One thing I will note, though, is that your reaction to this reminds me of Silverwolf vs King in Nobody Special's game where you were scum.

[Egg]

Oh and this is mostly for myself but I'm through Page 88

[Egg]

It's mostly the 6 or 7 line apology that made me feel it was possibly forced.

[Egg]

Also, I'm pretty House literally called SW dense.
Like that's the actual quote. Lol.

Either way, Drixx's reaction to ask for a force replacement was over the top considering Silverwolf thought it was unnecessary. We just played a game with a big personal arguement where I'm pretty sure Drixx played the same card as scum.

Here are some quotes from that game:

'm pretty sick of your play this game. Your play comes across as a desperate cry for attention, especially the multiple posts in a row that say nothing but just draw more attention to you. Your play is also offensive and unpleasant. It's not my place to question the mods, and you somehow got left unbanned and unpunished for the crap you've already put in the thread, but you keep on referring back to and bringing back up your terrible behavior (and hers) in order to pretend like the only reason anyone is voting you is because that happened

VOTE: KlingonCeltI would like to note that my vote for KC was originally on well before the drama started, that I gave her a chance to stop with this crap, and that it will now stay on her until she's gone.

Sorry T S O. Feel free to peruse my off site games. I don't believe that I have ever seen a situation like this. I've certainly never been in a situation where it felt like an individual player was keeping something this unpleasant alive simply to act as a distraction. I'd like to be clear that my stance is strictly because KC is manipulating and leveraging a situation she fully and knowingly not only contributed to, but also intentionally made worse and "upped the ante" over and over until it drove another player out of the game. If it had been allowed to die, or if at least KC didn't continue to post almost exclusively about it and trying to use it to her advantage, I'd have been happy to move on

Sorry NS. I've dropped you a PM.

[Egg]

The last game I played with RC was the Burning, a game in which I was so mad after it was over I spent like 4-5 pages postgame just being mad at people.
Like, it's something I'm not too proud of and I'm trying to make an active effort to not be a dickbag in games and focus more on trying to win rather than wanting to win arguments and getting pissed at people.
I felt like I was letting some of my residual anger from that game come out and felt bad because RC doesn't deserve for me to bring up that shit when it's not relevant just because I'm frustrated.

Ok, but there's still a change in tone after he points out his issues with your tone. And the second tone is the exact opposite of what he had an issue with. Maybe it's coincidence? Or maybe not. I'm just saying it's there.

[Egg]

What do you make of Boo thus far?
Or are you still catching up?

I'm catching up but we talked in the neighborhood and I'm not entirely impressed with her end of the exchange. I mean she eventually addressed all of my points but she didn't seem to care that she didn't know if her role was normal and it surprises me she wouldn't check when Boon and dragonspawn claimed. It makes me wonder if she's actually a scum role cop or maybe even just a scum vanilla cop. And she appeared to not realize we were told we had two non normal roles, but she seems the type that would pay attention to things like that so meh.

Drixx, do you have an example of a game where you were town and reacted that way to an arguement? On the empty space thing, all I can vouch for is that I didn't know it.

[Egg]

Can we all just hug and shit?

At the same time?

..@Drixx trying to say a confirmed townie is being opportunistic.

You are a claimed power role, not confirmed town. There is a difference.

I'm part way through Page 89.

Preview edit: ok. So I've seen it once and you were scum and reacted the same way. Not damning or anything but it's there

[Egg]

Taly, back on Page 89 you said you feel vulnerable being in a game with multiple scum teams. Can you elaborate on that? What exactly did you mean and why do you feel that way?

Reading House vs Cheet, I feel like Cheet may have been trying to redirect House with the question about clearing the hood followed by a Bookitty vote.

Cheet's Bookitty case is actually pretty solid, especially the point about only hunting one team. The only thing I don't get is why letting go of a town read on Titus is bad. Titus was SK, so it's not like they were scumbuddies or anything. I also don't feel like Bookitty properly addressed the points initially.

Through 92

Preview edit: best friends aren't on the normal list and Wake posted in MD that he wanted to try a game with them. You really didn't know that this far into the game? How closely would you say you've been reading?

[Egg]

I haven't been following Wake in MD, no. Why would I know it from things said in this thread?

Pretty sure it's been discussed.

Best friends are not on the non-normal list either.

That's the point I'm making.

I don't get the thing about only hunting one team, either. Can you explain what you mean by that? What would it look like to hunt scum without thinking about teams at all? because that's where my head has been at in this game so far.

Your read on Varsoon changed based on him not being likely scum with Ozgin. It shows that you legitimately saw Ozgin as scum, but Varsoon as not being his buddy which only makes Varsoon town if you know he's not on your scum team. So your Varsoon town read was probably a legitimate one based on interactions with Ozgin. The only exception is if you briefly forgot there are two teams which I don't think I'd buy.

Wait. So best friends ARE normal? Umm. That's...weird.

[Egg]

Ah. Sarcasm. Gotcha. I'll probably see that when I catch up

[Egg]

So are SW, myself and someone from your hood all one scumteam?Man.That totally seems like a real POV for you to confidently be believing in.This is me rolling my eyes.People should vote for Bookitty.

Is this somehow impossible?

[Egg]

Egg thought that Vanilla Cop was non-normal. He thought I was bad for not checking on whether my role was normal when Best Friends were already in the game and they were non-normal; since there can be only two (cue Highlander music) this obviously means I wasn't scumhunting because if my role HAD been non-normal I would have been able to counterclaim them.

Silverwolf didn't start this conversation and neither did I.

Actually, I didn't know if it was normal or not and my issue was that you didn't either. I think it's been discussed, and assumed by most of us, that dragonspawn and boon were the two non normal roles. As I said in the neighborhood, I'd expect you to be more interested in checking if your role was normal as town without being prompted to do so after claiming.

[Egg]

Wait Bookitty targetted a dead guy N2 AND got a no result N1? None of this was mentioned in the neighborhood. I really should catch up because if that's true, that's such a bad claim.

[Egg]

I see I was wrong anyway but you're misrepping me especially with your last post in the neighborhood. You seem to think I'm saying you should have claimed there before here. That's bull. Yes, if that was what I said, I'd expect you to jump all over it. What I meant was I didn't realize when you said Cheet tracked you and that's what prompted the claim, you also were tracked to a dead guy which is probably a dead guy. Looking back though, you did say Anen and I forgot he died when I initially talked with you there. But being tracked to a dead guy AND claiming you were blocked N1, yeah I'm doubting your claim and it should be obvious why.

[Egg]

Reading from Page 95

Silverwolf, you're awfully quick to call Bookitty's vote on you OMGUS without really looking at what she said. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the point now that she mentioned it in the neighborhood with quotes and all, but I understand where it's coming from. Much like the Ozgin read, ironically enough, I think she genuinely believes you are scum. Even if she is scum, I think her vote on you is a true attempt to hunt the other team and it might even have merit. Basically the point is that you used the word genuine to describe Bookitty's read on Ozgin which is how it was described in the neighborhood as well. It's a weird coincidence and I don't usually believe in coincidences. The only thing I can't understand is why that of all things would come up in a scum PT AND spill into the thread in your posts. Your reaction to call it OMGUS is off though.

FA's read on Bookitty feels awkward and wishy washy. Also his stance that Cheet slipped, but he's not voting Cheet so Cheet is overreacting is pretty bad too. Ifsomeone scumslipped, they aren't town. Simple as that. Makes me feel like he doesn't legitimately think it was a slip and his stance on the reaction is BS.

I managed to get through one page. Might have to wait for the family to go to bed before I read more. *sigh*

[Egg]

Catching up now. Hoping to finish this time

Silverwolf, you said skybird's voting looks careful. The Kitz vote looked opportunistic more than careful though. Talk to me about skybird in general though because that's someone who has been pinging my gut. It feels like skybird kind of pops in regularly to say something either obvious or unimportant but isn't really taking any controversial stances or stepping on toes. What do you think?

Kitz and Lala, you called skybird careful as well. What gives you that impression? What is scummy about it?

Delta, you seem to be avoiding a pretty good point. Why is Radiant not worthy of a policy lynch if lala is?

Skybird, I don't understand where you are going with your Kitz point. I disagree that scum are more likely to study the setup than town. Had you said scum realize how many buddies they have, I could understand. But scum wanting to know what they're up against? Why? Why wouldn't town as well? That feels more like something a specific player might be more likely to do than a specific alignment.

Ok, Bookitty saying the Silverwolf vote was temper kind of validates Silverwolf's claim that it was an OMGUS vote so I'm dropping that point.

Cheet, why do you think Boon and Dragonspawn are confirmed town?

I don't like how Bookitty originally avoided the fact that Cheet was softclaiming. Like she didn't know if he tracked her or had a cop guilty. I mean, a town power role who targetted a dead guy probably knows in that situation that that's what he's softclaiming and that can be explained right away. Even if she wasn't 100% on it, "I have no idea what you are soft claiming" doesn't feel like a natural response in that situation.

Hmm. I was ready to vote Bookitty, but the way she knew he didn't watch kind of shows she probably didn't kill Anen unless she's a rolecop who checked Cheet N1. Still, she could be a scum vanilla cop like Cheet said. Failing to get a result on the first two nights rubs me the wrong way. We had claimed power roles out there, so why would Bookitty be blocked N1? I feel like if Varsoon's team had a RB, they'd be blocking House unless he's on that team. The team that killed Varsoon would probably block House as well unless he's on that team. So basically unless House is scum it doesn't make much sense for Bookitty to have been blocked. Maybe, like someone said (Radiant?), skybird is ascetic, but what are the chances we have two ascetics and Bookitty is unlucky enough to have targetted both on N1 and N2? I'm really not sure I can accept that Bookitty is that unlucky to have two failed actions in a row to open the game. It reminds me of Inuyasha mafia where Y+B was scum and claimed friendly neighbor with failed actions the first two nights.

Meh, I'm gonna:

Vote Bookitty

The double no result is bugging me pretty bad.

[Egg]

Skybird, I guess I just don't see why it's a town tell much less a faked one.

Cheet, I believe them but they aren't confirmed. It's entirely possible they are scum together.

Silverwolf, you just gave a slight scum point on skybird (playing it safe?) but ended with a nulltown read. Can you give me a town point to back that?

[Egg]

Kitz, see that's basically what I mean about skybird. That moment of opportunism seems like it would come from someone who has been playing that way all game. But skybird has been in the background talking but avoiding controversy. It doesn't fit.

Cheet, I'm not sure what you mean but stay subtle. I don't suspect them and I don't think anyone else does so it's not important right now.

FA, can you give me examples of lala trying to appear useful?

Preview edit: fair enough. I thought you assumed it was a slip, but didn't think it was enough to vote. Debating over whether or not it was a slip makes more sense.

This was where you seemed wishy washy on Bookitty:

FA, what's your read on Bookitty?

I don’t really have one atm and that’s why I haven’t commented on boo all that much. I don’t think there is anything overtly scummy that boo has done so far that I have caught but she has been awfully absent.

The case SW just posted makes me want to lean scum on her but I have not confirmed it yet – need the time.

It was before you voted her and it only came after being asked and you didn't really commit to an answer. Saying you started the push feels kind of wrong especially considering you referenced someone else's case on her here and weren't sure yet yourself.

[Egg]

@egg, as to lala trying to appear 'useful' - that is not the term I used - I said doing something and there is a difference. She had reads all over the place that were essentially direct copies of reads from others - that is scummy in my book. Do an ISO on me, I point out some relevant cases.

I consider "doing something" to be "useful" but I don't want a semantics arguement. Can you just give me a few examples of what you meant because the case on her seems to be that she isn't doing anything and your point seems to be the opposite of that so I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from.

I'm gonna go look at those posts you mentioned.

[Egg]

1094 appears to have been made by Radiant....???

964 just looks like a few reads.

Not seeing the issue

[Egg]

If they are scum power roles, they'll still come back "not vanilla". Not worth it anyway. I don't think anyone thinks they are scum.

[Egg]

So Kitz has the most votes and is L-3 with 9 hours to deadline and I get out of work an hour before deadline barring last minute overtime. I still think Bookitty needs to be lynched but at L-5 I don't think it will happen. I'll switch if I need to assuming I'm out of work on time.

Actually.

Fuck it. I don't want to take that chance.

Unvote, Vote Kitz

L-2

Also Kitz should probably claim whenever you check in just in case a speed wagon is needed on either lala or Bookitty.

Preview Edit: Bookitty, by my count you are now L-6 with my switch. Kitz is L-2. Lala is L-4. Don't trust that 100% but there is a vote count one page back so it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

[Egg]

Dyslexic man walks into a bra

A man with no arms walks in to a bar. He asks the bartender to help him with his drinks by holding them for them. He does so and after three drinks the man asks where the bathroom is. The bartender points and says "you go in there alone".

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Why do blondes have bruises around their belly buttons?

Blonde guys are dumb too

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When I was in High School, I sat next to a blonde in Chemistry. Our teacher also taught anatomy and was showing off the cats that they'd be dissecting. He claimed that they were sleeping, not dead. She legit believed him.

Same blonde, same class. The teacher is telling us a true blonde story (and I wasn't sure I believed that it was true) about a class he taught before and a student replying to something about 60% with "that's almost half". It came off funnier than it should have probably because of the teacher, so we all laughed forabout a minute straight. I look over and this blonde has a confused look on her face so I said "please tell me you get why that's funny". She goes "not really. That IS almost half".

Same blonde, same class. A friend of mine tells a dumbass joke "what's green and goes backwards". I know where he's going with it and it's dumb but whatever. I answer "your mom". He gives the answer which is hard to explain through text, actually. It's that sucking snot back up your nose kind of sound. Well, the blonde overheard and said "I don't get it. Why is the answer your mom"

Different blonde. I'm on the phone with her and know she's scared of spiders. I stopped mid sentence to tell her there is a spider next to her. Keep in mind I'm about 15 miles away and we're on the phone so there's no way I actually saw a spider. She screamed as soon as I said it and spent the next hour looking for it.

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Oh and spider blonde's male cousin. We're all going to a concert with my brother. We stop at a rest stop on the highway. After we get about ten minutes down the road, my brother who is driving goes, "shit! I left my keys back there". No one laughs or says anything and this dude asks him a couple minutes later "are you gonna go back and get your keys?" Stupid must run in the family.

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Hmm. Kitz's flip along with Varsoon's earlier had me thinking I was wrong about Bookitty. Cheet's has me wondering though. I find it interesting that she volunteered the fact that she visited a dead guy and Cheet didn't even have that info. But the whole "it's a track not a watch because someone else visited him too" is pretty likely to come from a non killing role which is null because it could be scum or town. I think I'm back to Cheet's result and Bookitty's reaction meaning nothing and my read being weak gut + associatives which equals townish.

When I have time, I want to go back and look at FA because I'm getting a strong gut scum read there.

But. I'm in midle of a 64 hour work week crammed into a four day period and the three days after that are mostly for family before I go back to a slightly better work week so I'm kind of V/LAish until Wednesday night next week.

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FA, if Bookitty killed Anen, how would she have known that she wasn't the only one to target him? Or do you think she was guessing?

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Oh shit Xtoxm is back?!?!? That's fucking awesome. Although he won't recognize me on this name... Has it really been 4 years?

Not buying Bookitty's defense. I'll wait for everyone to check in before any hammer though.

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gg blue maf rip

so remaining scum are prob in Xtoxm(Taly)/Delta/FA/House

I did say Drixx was scum

but no one listens to the duck

Why are you bragging about the red team's kill?

Boon, why are Radiant and Silverwolf obvtown? And if lala is the only red scum on that Titus wagon, it means red didn't jump on it until the hammer. So unless Xtoxm is also scum, your conclusions don't make much sense. I wouldn't be surprised if both scum are on there. And to be fair, lala saying taly was the scum on the wagon isn't as bad as you are making it out to be when her other suspects weren't on the wagon. I'd also love to know why Xtoxm can't be scum without lala.

Radiant, why FA? He kind of has been pinging me all game but it's hard to verbalize why.

When I have time to look at things, I'll lay a vote. Right now, Xtoxm and FA are probably my top picks.

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Delta isn't typically very active from what I've seen, but I feel like he does more than this. Although the only scum game I've seen of his was his most active game with me. I'd love to see more from him regardless of what the inactivity means.

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Well if the wiki says so it must be true

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Silverwolf, what is the point in your post about Drixx at the bottom of Page 125? I could understand if you were showing that Drixx/House isn't a likely scum team, but Drixx's team is dead and you weren't doing that anyway. It doesn't seem like that post really does anything.

Xtoxm, can you explain your FA town read? You seem to briefly explain most of your reads but there's just nothing on this one. And here are some issues I had with Taly:
-felt like he didn't want his name lumped in with Ozgin voters. Like he knew it would look bad to be on that wagon
-Awkwardness with his Varsoon read and just flat out being wrong on Varsoon's meta when using that to explain the town read. And actually, I don't think Taly responded when I posted a Varsoon case in response to him (Taly).
-Reaction to TSO being NK'd sounded like commenting on it for the sake of it. Said he was trying to make sense of it, but never made any conclusions until I prompted him
-his case against House
-the comment about feeling "vulnerable" in a large game with multiple teams. Felt survivalistic.

I need to read pages 129 and 130 still but sleep is more important. I have to be up in 5 hours...

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Shit I'm 10 pages behind? Not sure when I'll catch up. Sleeping this morning. Working all night. Camping all weekend.

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Against my better judgement, I'm doing a (hopefully) quick read until I start nodding off too much.

Xtoxm, normally I'd agree with you that FA not being on major wagons is a town tell. But as Silverwolf pointed out, he encouraged some of those wagons, even calling for a hammer on one he didn't vote on. This shows less caution and more intentional avoidance of the wagons.

Through 131 and already half asleep...

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You would t be a wagon if you didn't keep cresting drama. We were quite prepared to lynch ducks today. But the very thought of you being a lynch candidate freaks you out. The fact that you keep wanting to look off wagon makes you more suspicious. The fact that you act like you are Gods gift to scum hunting when you've literally done absolutely nothing this game.

Ya know. I haven't been able to get much of a read on Radiant either way and I don't understand why some people have a town read on him. But this is a very good point. Makes me wonder if not only is Radiant scum, but his buddy was on some wagons as well. If Radiant ends up being scum, or a scum flips who was on the wagons, I'll want to remember this as a possible associative tell.

Silverwolf, I strongly disagree with you about VCA. The scum lynches actually don't matter because none of them were on the team we are hunting right now. So the scum didn't know any more than we did that we were lynching scum. And calling those scum obvscum, while you aren't entirely wrong, may not be accurate to everyone. I might be playing devil's advocate here, but it's not like they were confirmed scum. I was townreading Kitz. Titus' slip turned out to be BS (she was SK, not blue) and Bookitty really was a vanilla cop and probably didn't kill Anen. If there was a straight cop guilty or something on them, I could understand your point. But we still had to actually play the game to get those lynches and no one

knew

any of them were scum except players who are now dead. So yeah, VCA still applies

Speaking of VCA. I have Boon's post in front of me and I believe there has to be a red scum on every lynch. The wagons are just too large for that not to be the case and past game statistics show this to be more likely true than not. Here's what we have for living players:
Ozgin {me, fa, taly, prolapsed, house} (note that xtoxm and pisskop replaced taly and house respectively)
Titus {radiant, silverwolf, taly, lala}
Kitz {radiant, silverwolf, me, lala}
Bookitty {radiant, lala, silverwolf, prolapsed}
^ Taly and Silverwolf come out looking to worst in my opinion beause of their position on the wagons and frequency of wagoning. Note that Taly's activity dropped off to nothing for a while before a replacement occured and probably otherwise would have voted Kitz and/or Bookitty. Also note that Silverwolf is in the same late position on two of her three wagon votes. If Xtoxm is scum, I want to look closer at, actually, lala. If Silverwolf is scum, I want to look closer at Prolapsed.

Some things based on pisskop's vote count post:
-based on 1.03, if pisskop is town, there's a pretty solid chance Xtoxm or lala is scum
-based on 1.05, if Silverwolf is scum there is no way lala is her buddy.
-based on 1.06, Silverwolf scum and lala town seems a little more likely than before.
-based on 1.07, Silverwolf or Xtoxm is scum. Outside chance of Radiant but probably only as a buddy of Silverwolf or Xtoxm
-based on 1.12, I might have to consider the possibility that Xtoxm and lala are both scum. If lala is town, Radiant could also be scum
-based on 2.03, raidiant or prolapsed should be scum
-based on 2.04, fa or prolapsed should be scum. Given 2.03, prolapsed is more likely.
-Based on 3.01, there is definitely scum in Xtoxm, prolapsed, and Fa if lala is town.
-Based on 3.06, there is scum in Silverwolf, Prolapsed, and Fa. Maybe even two.
-based on 3.08, there is scum in Radiant, Silverwolf, and lala.
^I know this is messy, but if I look at it a bit, can anyone say I'm wrong in guessing the scum are Silverwolf and Prolapsed?

Titus scumslipped. I was there. RC and I caught her

Ummm. Wasn't the slip that she knew the unflipped team was blue? She flipped SK, so that turned out to not be true.

Pisskop, you're right that VCA points to Silverwolf, but I don't quite agree about meta. She was kind of the same way as town last time. Not important though because I'm probably about to vote her anyway.

Radiant, why is FA obvscum? I was ready to call him scum at the beginning of this day, but his most recent posts look more town to me. Silverwolf, same question. I don't see any word twisting or lying. You accused pisskop of lying as well but aren't pushing him the way you are pushing FA.

egg doesnt talk enough

I was working a shit ton of doubles. I'm back though. Off for most of the first half of July and I work one day between now and next Friday. So barring something like the escaped convicts being spotted in my area and me having to go look for them, I have nothing but free time.

I love how no one realizes pisskop is trolling with his claim.

mm, i can actually see ScumHouse now due to the Kitz associations. BlueKitz found out House was RedScum, so she started to push for it. Which is why Drixx came in to try and push out House as well. They knew House was scum due to role cop or something of the like and House potentially lied about JoaT

This is an interesting theory and makes sense if House was scum who knew he had a JOAT scumbuddy but I'm not really ready to entertain that just yet. And House probably would have stayed as scum.

Delta, you posted some content but not much. When do you plan on doing things?

Vote Silverwolf

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I'm more interested in lynching scum than info and I'm still townreading lala.

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Prolapsed, why is lala scum? Most of what I've seen implies she's not playing well which isn't alignment indicitive. And if she's scum, who is she scum with?

Silverwolf, that was L-2, not L-1. But still

Unvote

while I consider the claim.

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Didnt Boon claim BFF on D1?

Why did you jail him twice?

^I'm interested as well although I have a guess what she'll say.

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When you aren't phone posting ca you quote that discussion with FA?

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My vote was L-2, not L-1.

Delta, why?

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Prolapsed, if you admit Silverwolf is "off", why is lala a better lynch?

Even if Silverwolf is town, Xtoxm is probably scum.

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So the two scum are Silverwolf, lala, and Xtoxm?

Preview edit: the above was to Prolapsed.

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Vote Silverwolf

We decided in the neighborhood she's probably scum because the claim doesn't have a modifier mostly but a few other reasons. I mostly wanted to see if her buddy was obvious. I have a couple of ideas but I'll wait until tomorrow to discuss that. I'll post it in the neighborhood in case I'm not here but I don't think scum would shoot me right now lol. I admit I had a little to drink, but I'm confident we won't get much more info. Someone should hammer.

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So it's L-2...

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Two N1 and one N4.

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No fucking shit I'm trying to protect silver.

When you see this is town, we're lynching FA instantly.

Why?

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Radiant, Silverwolf is probably scum but still. You aren't giving reasons for ANYTHING. And the rhetoric seems to be that one of Silverwolf/FA has to be scum and I just don't get where that is coming from. If she flips town, Xtoxm is probably scum for VCA. But why FA? Because that's who Silverwolf is pushing? I don't get it. If you are town, you need to work with us or you're going to end up mislynched. If you are scum, by all means keep playing the way you are.

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Demanding that she jail Dragon will ensure his continued survival, too.

Only if she's town AND actually does that. But that also removes any possibility she jails scum who is attempting to NK.

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^I agree with my neighbor.

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My thoughts are basically this:
-if we think Silverwolf is town, Xtoxm is the best lynch for VCA
-if Silverwolf is scum, Prolapsed is the most likely buddy
-I'd rather lynch lala than FA which I understand is a 180 but FA looks better today and lala's vote was bad just now.

[Egg]

Just a reminder that before my VCA, this was my case on Taly who is now Xtoxm:

Xtoxm, can you explain your FA town read? You seem to briefly explain most of your reads but there's just nothing on this one. And here are some issues I had with Taly:
-felt like he didn't want his name lumped in with Ozgin voters. Like he knew it would look bad to be on that wagon
-Awkwardness with his Varsoon read and just flat out being wrong on Varsoon's meta when using that to explain the town read. And actually, I don't think Taly responded when I posted a Varsoon case in response to him (Taly). 
-Reaction to TSO being NK'd sounded like commenting on it for the sake of it. Said he was trying to make sense of it, but never made any conclusions until I prompted him
-his case against House
-the comment about feeling "vulnerable" in a large game with multiple teams. Felt survivalistic.

Unvote, Vote Xtoxm

There is still time to make this happen

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Ya know, I actually can't tell what it is Xtoxm wants other than you (pisskop) lynched which isn't happening. He's against lynching Silverwolf because she claimed a power role. Lala is near the top of his reads list as town. He's "not enthused" by a FA wagon and had him as a "town lean" earlier. I can't tell what he'll do around deadline when no one is voting you and that's not good.

[Egg]

Could it be we were wrong to assume that neighborhood was free...an Egg/lala scum team?

Why? Because I've been reading her as bad town for most of the game? People have done this with Radiant as well

[Egg]

Were you scum lala?

[Egg]

Then why is dragonspawn "><"?

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You're a fucking idiot.

You and PK and Dragonspawn together have made this game unwinnable.

Lynch me tomorrow, show how good your mafia skills really are.

Yeah this isn't town posting. There's no reason to doubt them and "unwinnable" makes no sense especially if lala was scum.

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Yeah we're not doing any of that, Radiant. Today should be either Silverwolf or Xtoxm.

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Vote Xtoxm

He's just trying to get a widely townread player lynched because his situation is desperate. It will probably work too. The only part of my role he has wrong is the. GOodfather part. Probably targeted me for a kill last night. There's another part to my role, but it's not Godfather. It's deputy. I asked Wake and if a cop has a modifier, I would inherit the modifier as well as their role if and when they die.

[Egg]

WTF.

Xtoxm, claim.

I have no clue what is happening. Did SW just claim scum with Egg?

Probably scum with Xtoxm and upset that he just fakeclaimed and guaranteed he'll be lynched tomorrow. I'd suggest lynching Silverwolf after Xtoxm. I probably won't be alive to see it, but I have faith that you guys have enough common sense to do that without me.

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Yeah I expect to be lynched today. Xtoxm will be lynched tomorrow. And the next day, I'm confident it's his buddy. So yeah, this isn't a bad spot at all. You guys can pretty much coast for the rest of the game and get an easy win for us.

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I'm curious why he'll say he targeted me lol. It doesn't even make sense. I only want to know for curiosity reasons. I mean lynching him after me is a no brainer.

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Weren't you voting pisskop all yesterday? Lol.

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One red JOAT, one town JOAT, two living claimed JOATs. And blue didn't have one. Town having 3 would be overpowered as fuck. 2 town, 2 red, and 0 blue. That's pretty Wake-like from what I've heard about his games. Just sayin'

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But that would mean he really rolecopped me. So why the missing kill?

*shrug*

[Egg]

Adding Godfather kind of shows how long ago Xtoxm played too. They aren't nearly as common as they used to be.

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Well I did everything I could. Not much you can do when your scum buddy doesn't want to play to their win condition.

[Egg]

Egg-I did play to my win condition all damn game. I wasn't going to win once I was the only one left. I'm not going to fight and put energy into it just to maybe last another day or two and be lynched anyway. I explained all this to you.

Mods-Can you release the dead PT please?

You had a shot. I'm just annoyed that I pulled that move for nothing and can't do it again because it's been seen now. And there was no dead PT...

Egg-I did play to my win condition all damn game. I wasn't going to win once I was the only one left. I'm not going to fight and put energy into it just to maybe last another day or two and be lynched anyway. I explained all this to you.

Mods-Can you release the dead PT please?

I mean, anything is possible. Even if you are a cop confirmed scum, you should still fight. That's playing to your wincon. =/

^this

Preview edit: I agree with everything Boon just said. You haven't lost until the Mod flips your last teammate's role.

[Egg]

Im amazed that my crumbing to egg worked like it did, btw.

even without xtox, I would have advocated his lynch in lylo -1.

You crumbed?

[Egg]

You played well though

I wish this was true. I've hit a bad stretch for all of 2015 so far. That's part of why it's break time.

I think SW had a chance, being Ascetic when targetted by a Roleblocker would look pretty convincing-town had she submitted a kill last night.

That being said I'm not holding it against her by any means, it would have been a very uphill battle.

Very good point. Xtoxm might have placed her in the confirmed town pool. If she was blocked and a kill went through, the first thing you assume is she couldn't have made the kill. That kind of unpredictable thing is why you don't give up.