Community

[Morning Tweet]

Vote Roden for lying or go back to newbie queue. I'm using 2 posts for this so you all can be explicitly sure:

I didn't receive a message from Roden. You can be damn sure that one of us is lying. It should be obvious to you that Roden is the one who is lying, but if you have to flip me first to find out that Roden/Passenger/Bell are the group scum, then be my guest and vote me instead of Roden.

I did not receive a message about Roden, either.

Besides that, the secondary effect from my ability let's me send a message to my target mod-confirming me as town. I'd like for this player to announce this, please.

I guess Flavia is just trying to run out the clock at this point.

I sent it to Frog, for a few reasons. Sending it to my biggest detractor forces him to have to accept he was wrong, if he's town. That part's important, because Koka already stated that when an Advocate reveals themself, that it gives information to the Government.

It's not true.

[Morning Tweet]

Hi Bell, Johnny, Roden, and everybody

Even a cursory reading of the last few pages would reveal that we're waiting for whoever Roden sent his thing to (I can't see Roden lying about the send).

It seems like he is, why

Why would Roden makes that up tho

He's not throwing scum by the way: he's gambiting in order to redirect the wagon off of Passenger and to potentially get a mislim on me. Most likely Roden's role provides utility to the scum team and Roden himself is no longer needed to be alive after his abilities activation, whereas scum need Passenger alive in order to activate his ability at night.

Herta stop dumbtelling/not reading my posts.

I think there's probably something that made Roden's claim fail not necesesarily this it could be a number of things. it seems like some plauyers assumed Roden wouldn't lie about this and wrote it off.

Final thoughts on the Roden Vs Frog thing.

~Roden is always town.

:giggle: :lol: :lol: :giggle: :lol: :giggle: :] :giggle: :lol: :giggle: :lol: :D :lol:

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

lmfao like what

I think Roden is pushing for a Frog miselim because it will handicap town severely.

It kind of seemed to me like Roden was pushing for you with his last several posts.

Oh. I see that only started after this post.

First thing everyone should know: my role isn't called Advocate or Moonlight Dancer. My ability is called Advocate, but my role is actually called

Proponent

. Koka has already botched their role claim as far as flavor goes. I'm fairly certain Koka isn't claiming their real role name because it would sound scummy and didn't think anyone else was also an Advocate. Though Koka did say the correct trigger phrase "Represent Residents", as that was mine as well.

Besides that, the secondary effect from my ability let's me send a message to my target mod-confirming me as town. I'd like for this player to announce this, please.

I see, so your role is arguably pro-town since you can confirm yourself while mine is arguably pro-delegation since i give info to the scum team.

I mean, you argued my case for me here. Not sure why you're trying to claim otherwise now.

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

Also still no real answer given why you waited to reveal yourself here instead of immediately activating it and explaining how it works at the start of the game.

Koke's role sounds real

I don't think withholding how it works fully really necessarily is proscum, its more about how you wanna play it

This sounds like Kokabiel was using it to fish for the government agent, which seems like the intended use of the role

[Morning Tweet]

Once a fucking gain, Roden was not in a position where they needed to do any of this. They were not being wagoned.
They were not under significant threat to do this approach.
Whatever town cred they think they'd get from this, it's too early for them to try for, they barely have the lay of the land.
Koka felt like they had to do something.
Roden didn't have to.

Frog apparently thinks a teammate of Roden's was under threat so he felt it necessesary to, start a 1v1 between himself and Frog through the claim, I guess?

I'm not really sure what the upside to Roden's approach is

What's the thing Koka felt like they had to do?

So either Roden or Frogster is lying.
Why aren't we killing one of them.

So I suppose it's possible that this ^ is what Roden wanted. Or maybe something went wrong somewhere that I can't possibly anticipate.

Absolutely baffled that I'm receiving votes right now. Did y'all forget that Koka flubbed their role claim? Did y'all not notice that Frog accused me of trying to dismantle the Passenger wagon before proceeding to dismantle the wagon himself? Or that he's accusing me of trying to sacrifice myself for Passenger when I just accused Koka of doing exactly that??

I mean, calling Frog starting a wagon on you "dismantling the Passenger wagon" is a bit generous. You're the one who claimed to FN frog, he's just responding

Frog's accusation that I have a bad role and that I'm trying to save Passenger (who has a good role) doesn't make sense.

Why vote ME and not the player who I'm trying to save?? That isn't a logical town thought process.

We're locked in a concrete 1v1 of sorts, the passenger thing is more of an educated guess by comparison. You could be sacrificing yourself for any number of bloeks

I don't think Roden is town. I think he's grasping at straws here

UNVOTE:

At least until Koka gets in here and explains the Advocate thing.

~Luke

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

Looks like a role explanation to me and not a claim but you are just grasping at straws cuz you got caught

that's whhhatt i was sayinnnn

Roden's claim isn't true as far as I can tell and I feel like he's making reasons to suspect Frog/Koka more than anything else

[Morning Tweet]

No.

[Morning Tweet]

Different people get different things outta this game, my guy. I've posted my reactions to literally the entire thread. If that's not "content" to you, you're going to keep getting frustrated in every game you play.

Your claim outta left field is hard to follow. Your cases don't make a Lotta sense to me, and your progressions are alien. In a vacuum I'd write you off as weird and try to read you based on flips.

But

Roden's claim is more believable and makes yours look suspect in comparison. So I'll side with Roden here and flip you.

You're not my first choice, but there's less than a day left and I'll take what I can get.

Insulting me and lamenting my lack of logical debate with you just makes you seem bitter and desperate.

I disagree. Moonlight dancer that forces the serial killer to attack them the following night or have their identity revealed seems somewhat believable. It's an interesting design for an otherwise zero utility role.

Spoiler:

I decided only to partially claim my role today:

#1 I'm informed that at least one player has a role which gets misleading results.

I already claimed it earlier before Roden claimed. I assumed it was referring to an investigative, but I was jumping to conclusions, I doublechecked my role PM just now because I was getting suspicious, and below is the exact wording:

MY ROLE IS INFORMED FYI IN CASE ANYONE MISSED ME CLAIM IT:

INFORMED: AT LEAST ONE ROLE PROVIDES A MISLEADING RESULT

I WONDER IF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW RODEN'S ROLE WORKS...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At least one player has a role who

PROVIDES

a misleasing result. I wonder what kind of mod given information Roden may have

PROVIDED

to someone with his

ROLE

via a

PRIVATE MESSAGE

. I wonder if Roden has a

SCUM PR

with the ability to

MISLEAD

as you now know

THERE IS AT LEAST ONE ROLE IN THIS GAME WHICH PROVIDES MISLEADING RESULTS

Fairly certain that Frog is the Government though because this post literally can't be true.

1) This set up is confirmed to not be bastard. Misleading results are considered bastard, especially mod-confirmed results.

2) Friendly Neighbor isn't a result, it's mod-confirmed info.

3) Frog claims to be using the exact wording of his role. It is explicitly against the rules to use exact wording from your role PM, yet the mod hasn't intervened.

I would say that forms of trickery are always going to be in a grey area since some things can be argued to not be outright "moderator lies".

You see, one of the contradictions to their approach is that they don't need bait to out the government. It's baked into their role.

Me revealing gives info to the Delegation(Scum team if you don't know). So how would that benefit the town? Scum would ignore the delegation until lylo then kill him.
When i was an easy elim i just popped it to try and bait the government and persuade people to do something else. I caught Catguin, people didn't do much else and now you are coming in here without even knowing what government even is.

How does the ability have anything to do with when you're getting eliminated. If I'm getting this right you're saying that you didn't think the ability benefited town

but you still popped it because you knew it could go after the government -- so you should understand how it can help the town then?

My role name is Advocate. It's role is Advocate i'm assuming because an Advocate advocates. And when i pm the mod he confirms that i'm an advocate which is my role name.

But what is your ability? I am assuming it is not advocate as well.

[Morning Tweet]

I don't see why Roden sends a clearing message to who is, in his own words, his "biggest detractor"

[Morning Tweet]

I saw all of that but I'm not satisfied because that makes no sense

[Morning Tweet]

Roden still didn't confirm to me

[Morning Tweet]

I'm an Advocate for the Community itself, meant to bring attention of our plight to the wider world. I reveal my alignment to the Government because flavor-wise I become a political target.

Koka, how does your flavor of advocate get to q moonlight dancer?

Like, in my mind an "advocate" is [someone] who is doing things for [someone or something else].

How is that getting to "you can have your own pr name revealed?"

I pm the mod "Represent Residents" and the mod confirms my role in the main thread.
It makes sense since an advocate is "a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy." according to wiki

Another point that I thought about Roden v Koka was that when comparing the two of these, one reads like they got a mod description of their role flavor that they are sharing to the thread, and one looks like they are making up an explanation (even looking things up on a wiki to make sure it makes sense).

Roden could be bending the flavour in their scum lore. But I can follow your reasoning.

I don't follow why Koka needs to make up an explanation when they're both confirmed to be Advocates. They both can read from their PMs here
. t

[Morning Tweet]

I disagree.. describing it as a moonlight dancer makes a lot of sense. Your question of "how did you get to moonlight dancer from advocate" doesn't make sense to me.

Why would Koka need to answer as to why they described it as a moonlight dancer rather than as an "Advocate for the people" or whatever

[Morning Tweet]

I can see where you're coming from regarding what they reveal with flavour, though

[Morning Tweet]

I disagree.. describing it as a moonlight dancer makes a lot of sense. Your question of "how did you get to moonlight dancer from advocate" doesn't make sense to me.

Why would Koka need to answer as to why they described it as a moonlight dancer rather than as an "Advocate for the people" or whatever

I am not sure you understood what I was trying to say. Calling her role ability a moonlight dancer is accurate.

My question was how her flavor name lined up with her getting that ability. Basically, asking her to describe her role flavor to me.

Her explanation relied on a wiki, whereas roden's explanation was "as an advocate I will become a politcal target" ie being an advocate = a moonlight dancer ability.

I got the impression that Koka didn't know the definition of advocate so they looked it up. If they truly didn't know the definition, then they prolly would have had to do that

But I see that you're saying they should be able to explain why their role has a "reveal self" ability using the lore and the whole "design" of the role, rather than through looking up the definition of their role

Wracking my brain about this too long.

@Scarf They are both mod confirmed advocates. Koka says their role is called advocate but Roden says their role is called Proponent with an ability called Advocate. But they both agree on the phrase they had to PM to the mod.

Roden's claim includes a "target" which supposedly gets informed Roden is town, Koka's does not. Plus Roden informs the scumteam of his alignment when using the ability.

Koka's role seems like its supposed to fish for SK in convoluted fashion by notifying the SK that they need to kill Koka or have their identity revealed to scum

.....

Roden came across to me as piling on fairly weak reasons for Koka's claim being fake and Roden picking Frog to message doesn't really make sense.
Roden's role claim functionally is a lot easier for me to visualize than Koka's though, I get confused when I try to understand how Koka's role and ability are the same thing.

[Morning Tweet]

Nothing's really changed for me because I already expected Tweet's slot to deny my mod confirm. The long gap of time between replacing in and actually posting is about what I expected for someone who needs to talk with the mod to confirm mech stuff and read their slot's ISO to make sure they don't accidentally contradict anything the previous player in the slot said.

I'm an Advocate for the Community itself, meant to bring attention of our plight to the wider world. I reveal my alignment to the Government because flavor-wise I become a political target.

Koka, how does your flavor of advocate get to q moonlight dancer?

Like, in my mind an "advocate" is [someone] who is doing things for [someone or something else].

How is that getting to "you can have your own pr name revealed?"

I pm the mod "Represent Residents" and the mod confirms my role in the main thread.
It makes sense since an advocate is "a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy." according to wiki

Another point that I thought about Roden v Koka was that when comparing the two of these, one reads like they got a mod description of their role flavor that they are sharing to the thread, and one looks like they are making up an explanation (even looking things up on a wiki to make sure it makes sense).

Roden could be bending the flavour in their scum lore. But I can follow your reasoning.

I don't follow why Koka needs to make up an explanation when they're both confirmed to be Advocates. They both can read from their PMs here
. t

This doesn't make any sense? How can I be scum bending my flavor when I'm the only one giving flavor? I feel like town's first instinct when seeing that a player can't give flavor should be "maybe they have a scummy flavor text", not "oh, they can't give flavor or even their role name, they must be town and the player giving relevant flavor must be scum".

I didn't say you're more suspicious for giving flavour, i was offering an alternative explanation for why you may have given flavour as scum.

I'm not really sure it was my first instinct to really note anything about this, I'm more naysaying Luke's reasoning.

[Morning Tweet]

The way their claim shifted from "if you kill me something bad will happen, so don't kill me" to "if you let me live, the 3p will lose, so don't kill me" made it seem to me like both of those were lies just hoping to survive.

I don't see where this occured. The on-death effect didn't come off as a "don't kill me", and neither did the SK-baiting part. Scum throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks maybe but 'lies hoping to survive' is way too far.

How are these a "don't kill me" claim:

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.

When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.

Plus I can't even really say that the claim truly shifted.

Koka was being kinda scummy, and started getting some pressure.

Koka activated their advocate ability, and the mod posted they were an advocate, and Koka claimed

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.

Because koka was still kinda scummy, they got some more votes. And Koka then revealed that they lied when they said that they had "an additional on-death trigger" like,

they have completely dropped that, and instead changed their claim to be

When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.

The way their claim shifted from "if you kill me something bad will happen, so don't kill me" to "if you let me live, the 3p will lose, so don't kill me" made it seem to me like both of those were lies just hoping to survive.

What do you mean that Koka lied about the additional on-death trigger? That's the SK thing, no? All of the bolded doesn't accurately describe what happened as far as i can tell

[Morning Tweet]

I will also say that Koka's role, as currently claimed, is actually pretty bad game design.

The claim: I active my ability, the entire thread is told that I have activated my ability, so long as I live to day 2, the 3p (functionally) LOSES THE GAME

That is a pretty fucked up thing to throw at the 3p, and I don't even know what the 3p could do about such an ability if Koka had activated at the start of the day, and then said "If there is a protective out there, it better be on me tonight, can't say more until tomorrow"

Hmm, maybe. Not sure how much luck Koka would have with getting a protective but forcing the SK's hand (and them losing if they miss the kill) is annoying. Maybe there's something we're not accounting for about the third party. But maybe you're right and Koka is just making something up that doesn't actually function. It sounds too harsh and hard to play around from just looking at the role.

[Morning Tweet]

So wait I might be getting lost in the sauce here sweets, why do you think Roden claimed in the first place?

First thing everyone should know: my role isn't called Advocate or Moonlight Dancer. My ability is called Advocate, but my role is actually called

Proponent

. Koka has already botched their role claim as far as flavor goes. I'm fairly certain Koka isn't claiming their real role name because it would sound scummy and didn't think anyone else was also an Advocate. Though Koka did say the correct trigger phrase "Represent Residents", as that was mine as well.

Besides that, the secondary effect from my ability let's me send a message to my target mod-confirming me as town. I'd like for this player to announce this, please.

So Roden activated the ability and claimed to counter Koka's claim. It seems like a slam dunk to kill Koka immediately because Roden also reveals that they're a daytime friendly neighbour. But no announcement ever comes from another player saying they got the message. I don't see the motivation to include that extra bit with the friendly neighbour, Roden could have just left it without adding that and we'd probably be on our merry way. It doesn't really make sense

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah and I know that wasn't answering the question. We all know why Roden claimed the first part and I don't know why Roden claimed the second part

[Morning Tweet]

I guess they're more of an on-alive then actually yeah. And that is arguably lying to say that learning what the role is after their death is an on-death.

[Morning Tweet]

I don't see where this occured. The on-death effect didn't come off as a "don't kill me", and neither did the SK-baiting part. Scum throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks maybe but 'lies hoping to survive' is way too far.

If you don't see how

"If you guys kll me something will trigger - not telling you what it is tho"
and
"If you let me live, the 3p will lose"

Can be attempts to survive, without them literally saying "

and because of the pr I just claimed, I should not be killed right now

," I don't know what to tell you.

I think the first characterization is a stretch, the second is plausible I suppose. Actually, no, I don't think either happened. I don't think Koka would have considered the claim as a "Let me live and SK will be taken care of"

I think it's more likely that it's just a not well thought out claim that functions not super well because it's fake, if that is the case. They probably just said what came to mind as it happened. I'd shut the case there if I got Roden's message.

[Morning Tweet]

Just as an aside, because I want to kill Koka still, but as a "just in case I don't make it to tomorrow"

Tweetie's posting has felt fairly motivated to try and find a way to poke around to find a way to reframe everything about Koka. Which I also felt from Frog. Which leave me feeling like that slot has an agenda different then my own.

I retract my town read of the slot.

I have no idea if it makes sense with a 3p out there, but I almost feel like the slot is a traitor for the delegation. Feels unlikely that a partner would actually go as hard as frog did and the 3p would actually be that motivated to save Koka, regardless of koka's alignment

I find it difficult to believe both Koka and Roden are scum. Put yourself in my shoes for a bit. Roden's claim is confirmed as untrue to me so there's a large chance there's a hole in the Koka case. Roden's reasons for Koka being scum were not compelling to me either.

[Morning Tweet]

I think the first characterization is a stretch, the second is plausible I suppose.

They literally compared it to being vengeful, but not actually vengeful at first.

It sure read like an indication that "the thing that happens when I die is bad" to me.

They said it isn't a vengeful. How's that comparison

[Morning Tweet]

Well I guess is not equal is a comparison.

[Morning Tweet]

It didn't read like that at all to me. It read like it was something mundane

[Morning Tweet]

I suppose I can't argue with the way it came off to you and the way my read lined up with Frogs. I'm down to see what happens now

[Morning Tweet]

Wait so Roden made the friendly neighbour actio nthe fuck up? Bruh