Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]

[Morning Tweet]

I once had a dream that Enchant.....
once had a dream that DragonEater70..........
once had a dream that imaginality.....
once had a dream that imaginality..........
once had a dream that KawaiiKame.....
once had a dream that Enchant..........
once had a dream that Ranger.....
..........
once had a dream that Ranger.....
once had a dream that Empathice..........
once had a dream that Save the Dragons.....

woke up

VOTE: Dragons

[Morning Tweet]

I like DragonEater for town

I think Enchant could be scum trying to control the nightmare mechanic

Anyone can be scum trying to control the nightmare mechanic, this is not exclusive to Enchant

not everyone is going "hand me the gun lest these heathens get a hold of it first", that is a line exclusive to enchant

Granted, I think him being blatantly overt about wanting power is wifomy nai at best. But i can see the rationale

Which means you thought the possibility of it being a RVS vote was enough to warrant mention. AKA you said it could be a RVS vote.

VOTE: Enchant

I feel this is such an inconsequential thing to vote Enchant in on...

Yeah it's an odd semantic reason to vote Enchant.

I do think there's something a bit weird about the interaction though.

HURT: Enchant

Mmm power

VOTE: Enchant

VOTE: DragonEater

Bad vote even for RVS.

I think that Enchant is playing in a way that is sus intentionally in an rvs jokey way but the OMGUS back on dragon in 97 calling it a bad vote ... its just like why? That's a weird thing for Enchant to think is a bad vote because i found the way enchant playing to be traditionally suspicious (As in "ooo gimme da power") so getting at least a l ittle voted for that is usually an expected part of the fun

So I guess, Enchant is a little more defensive than I would have expected I guess is my summary of that. But maybe his reaction is an intentional continuation of the joke and the jokes actually on me for being dumb enough to find it suspicious. Wine

[Morning Tweet]

Idk Enchant's hyper insistence on being the voice of reason controlling the nightmare is NOT what i would have expected

But that doesn't make it scummy. I'm not really sure what to make of it

Only invention worth giving away first night is Friendly Neighbour.

imo either vig or FN is good for the N1 invention, though vig is only recommended if town is feeling lucky

the rest are better later in the game

imo either vig or FN is good

Didn't read further.

Enchant, why do you care about this mechanic being used perfectly so much?

[Morning Tweet]

enchant having wim/not trolling/doing mech spec is probably town enchant

Reflecting.. I'm inclined to agree I think. I think him getting upset at people voting him plus sweating over the nightmare mechanic for some reason probably comes from a genuine place.

It's less likely that he's reacting in a frustrated way in response to OMGUS as scum i think, I think he'd be more likely to brush it off. And I think his fixation on how the mechanic is used is more likely to be real, not sure what the obvious motive is for scum

HURT: DragonEater This is a very good bet.

Someone said that scum can't get in the nightmare. Sort of. I mean, if scum shoots the person who receives the nightmare, we're still gonna learn there's scum running the nightmare. The more people we put in there that we're sure are town, the better the result could potentially be. And the less likely scum will want to do that

Ideally it still needs to be as towny as possible so this nitpick im making doesnt rlly matter. But if scum get in we can still work w that is what I mean

[Morning Tweet]

HURT: TL

[Morning Tweet]

you're really gonna make me have to play this d1 aren't you kyoko

hood <<<< vig, no? why would you prefer a hood over a vig instead?

You really shpuld be playing D1 when it's your town meta to be very active D1. Idk why town you wouldn't want to play D1.

This just screamed of 'hey fellow scum, don't act so scummy'

VOTE: Dragon

Does it though? Wouldn't that be super on the nose? This just seems like the way it was phrased that is pinging you more than anything. like by saying "town!you" twice it seems slightly lecture-y in tone but other than that im not sure it implies anything about Dragon. He could have phrased that like "You're usually very active D1 as town" and it wouldnt read the way it does, at least to me

That being said i like this thought process though HURT: Drew

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: TL, Kyoko

Doctor Drew however is pretty solvey this game.

is he?

pedit: that post tells me "kyoko might be scum with her calculated pushes"

what part of it do you think is calculated?

is he?

uhh... I think so? maybe?

302 is what gives me the impression that Doctor Drew is "pretty solvey this game".

what part of it do you think is calculated?

gimli's post about your pushes makes me think they could be set up to try to get Gimli to slip up and become LHF - they seemed like okay and somewhat towny pushes before that post

There isn't a single read in post 302. what were they solving there?

so you say based on what gimli wrote, you got the impression that I was trying to set them up as an easy mislim and not sorting them? can you elaborate what you saw there that gave you this impression?

What are you trying to achieve here, Kyoko? There are three expressed townreads in post 302, to start off.

Your probing of TL feels unnecessarily aggressive in approach, why the questions..

Spoiler: Kyoko on Gimli

I actually am going to go ahead and do

VOTE: Gimli

I have a few questions for you:

1 - Is your hated modifier for all phases or just this one
2 - Imagine you were in the nightmare, what invention would you choose and why?
3 - How is your read on temporallich developing
4 - What is your take on how empath voted enchant. What do you think about the interactions surrounding his vote on enchant
5 - Who would you vote to hurt right now? Please write one sentence about each.

We need to verify your alibi, please show us your e-handbook!

I'm skimming p.13 etc a bit and agree some of my townreads could've been unwarranted and coming from informed places

I do like kyoko calling attention on that so I think she is more likely than not to be a townie.

pedit: that post tells me "kyoko might be scum with her calculated pushes"

On second thought, TL responding to this with "This seems like Kyoko is making a calculated push" but not elaborating on why was a pretty good invitation for questions. I can imagine why you may have been a bit extra suspicious in your questioning. So I can appreciate being proactive.

That being said, curious what exactly made you decide to let off of Gimli.

some of the questions kyoko made to me are not gonna provide answers that help her figure out my alignment

idk why she'd be suspicious of me being hated? I understand the modguess that this is a town role is too much, but like being suspicious about my role is a bit ????

I'm retracting my idea that her push was a >rand town thing, I think given the questions and the places where the suspicion is allegedly coming from, I think it can be a >rand scum thing instead

I like this post by Gimli. He has an instant reactive read (Kyoko is probably town because pushing me is hard, i assume they've played previously) which he posts instantly upon seeing her questioning.
Then an hour later after reflecting Gimli writes this post

I think Kyoko and Gimli having previously played together in a game that they probably both interacted in a lot adequately explains why this interaction is happening in the first place

Mmm... I think the content Kyoko is generating from Gimli is coming from a genuine place from both

Enchant is probably town too. But the way I'm getting there isn't because im convinced he's solving it's more that he's playing in an outspoken suspicious kind of way where he keeps giving what he's thinking no matter how bad it looks. I'm also kind of convinced he wants to control the Nightmare mechanic which seems like something he'd be more likely to want as town

HURT: TemporalLich, Drew, Kyoko, Gimli, Enchant

[Morning Tweet]

you're really gonna make me have to play this d1 aren't you kyoko

hood <<<< vig, no? why would you prefer a hood over a vig instead?

You really shpuld be playing D1 when it's your town meta to be very active D1. Idk why town you wouldn't want to play D1.

This just screamed of 'hey fellow scum, don't act so scummy'

VOTE: Dragon

Does it though? Wouldn't that be super on the nose? This just seems like the way it was phrased that is pinging you more than anything. like by saying "town!you" twice it seems slightly lecture-y in tone but other than that im not sure it implies anything about Dragon. He could have phrased that like "You're usually very active D1 as town" and it wouldnt read the way it does, at least to me

That being said i like this thought process though HURT: Drew

I bit on the nose yes for scum for scum, as I stewed on it a little bit more it seems more of a S v T thing.

I don't understand why town would say that though.

"As town here I would have expected you to be more ..."
"Town!you is usually...."

etc

it just seems like ap hrasing thing. I could have written that dragon post without another thought. i think its a coincidence that it can be construed as a scum budy direcrtly talking to scum (or scum directly talking to town). So in other words NAI since i prolly wouldnt even think about it.

[Morning Tweet]

I played with Gimli and Kyoko in said recent game.

I will say that thinking of that games reminds me of townGimli, he isn't afraid to point out when he thinks he was incorrect.

Pre Edit: Slips are usually subtle

Hmm i dont usually believe in slip type reading the vast majority of cases due to how often and how confidently people will call me out for "slipping" but i can see what you mean. I could miss a lot of deceptive cues by mistakenly dismissing them as just 'particular' phrasing. but there are still a load of false positives

I'm curious why exactly I come across like im forcing a townread on Dragon to Ranger. And also prolly why Ranger has Enchant so low

why is Enchant so low to you?

I disagree with the meta townread.

{Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice}
{TemporalLich}
{DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Clone, Flea The Magician}
{MegAzumarill}
{Morning Tweet}
{imaginality, KawaiiKame}
{Gimli}
{Enchant}

13.

I can understand disagreeing with the meta but what has Enchant at the bottom of your possible suspects at the bottom of your reads since P4 onwards to present

I'm looking through his ISO and he basically does nothing but fluff, OMGUS Dragon, and focus on the nightmare. Okay so he's not exactly town to the naked eye. But to the discerning viewer, maybee... I'm actually not really as sure now I'm kinda surprised he doesnt have any reads at all. I think I got convinced by someone elses explanation

enchant having wim/not trolling/doing mech spec is probably town enchant

Yup twas this post, sire

Agree with doing mech spec. He's kind of trolly/fluffy though, light on content (with his full ISO now). I took his investment in the nightmare mechanic as efforty but i dont really read it that way now. He definitely seemed to care about that, for some reason, at the beginning, i dont really know why. if he thinks he is a bad player (198) then why does he also feel qualified to be the voice of reason who should be dictating what's done with it. And why would he expect people to trust him

I don't really know, I feel silly having him near medium level confidence. I'm pretty low confidence on that one now

HURT: TemporalLich, Kyoko, Gimli, Dragon

[Morning Tweet]

HURT: TemporalLich, Kyoko, Gimli, Dragon, Drew

[Morning Tweet]

I have a towncore of DE, TL, kyoko kirigiri and MT atm.

I like this as a towncore, honestly.

Newbie question alert:

Is talking too much about a towncore/townbloc anti-town?

Why would it? Its another path to the same result. Finding town is art. you can solve many games just by finding the town and voting everyone else out.

I think youre probably getting at the risks associated with this kind of playstyle, though. Which is fair -- of course if scum is smart they will focus attention on getting put in the townbloc -- which could lessen the work they have to do "lining up suspects" -- they instead just need to play to "infiltrate the townblock" and just not be the least trustworthy

TBH putting the burden on scum to fool me into placing them into my trusted group, rather than taking a more hands-on, interrogation-style approach to search out suspects has always felt perfectly fine to me. I like playing this way. even moreso at the start of the game though

I think you're opening yourself to getting fooled in ways that you couldn't have before, since scum is now intentionally playing to get in your bloc in many cases, but im not sure it's necessarily making it harder for yourself. I think innocent people give off many signs that they're clueless and effortlessly, scum has to try pretty hard to mimic it. I just favour looking for genuine signals over fake ones

This is getting kind of wandered off. But your question definitely feels pertinent to the way i tend to play so theres my opinion

[Morning Tweet]

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Right but like, kind of a moot point when Ranger always plays that way isn't it

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Ranger

I'm curious why exactly I come across like im forcing a townread on Dragon to Ranger. And also prolly why Ranger has Enchant so low

DragonEater was not under severe pressure, and the push was one with a weak enough basis that focusing on it as you did seems unnatural. It was overblown. It was out of place. It wasn't something casually done, or done to make a point. It looked like you went out of your way to defend DragonEater, in a way I don't think town would be inclined to.

Enchant is so low because Enchant's contributions have looked strongly +scum to me. The reasons for defense of Enchant boil down to meta, but those meta defenses of Enchant seem lazy at best, disingenuous at worst. I don't think people being truly honest with themselves have conviction Enchant's contributions are definitively town. I can understand them

viewing

his posts as town. I can understand them having a surface-level take on Enchant which they don't bother to dig deeper on at this stage.

But from what I've seen, Enchant is not outside of his scum range, and his contributions have been suspect.

Why wouldn't I have him so low?

I can understand disagreeing with the meta but what has Enchant at the bottom of your possible suspects at the bottom of your reads since P4 onwards to present

Enchant's contributions have been forced in a way I feel is likely scum-indicative. I'm not seeing anything which looks remotely town from Enchant, and I see plenty which looks like scum. Given me not buying the meta defense, I've no reason to not have him that low as meta is his

only

defense for his play right now.

Idk i remember town!ranger also put me as scum in Gnosia, but tried to kill me more actively than that.

You hard-1v1d the cop who I fully believed to be the real cop, that made it much easier. :P
After your retraction I retracted my scumread there because you were no longer confscum.

Speaking of that game, you were scum there and your contributions here remind me of your contributions there, so...

I dont understand -- if DragonEater was not under severe pressure (From my recollection he wasnt), why do you propose I was forcing a towncase on him? I was just spewing my thoughts as per usual. Looking back at it, I was just responding to Drew's vote on Dragon which i disagreed with. I have no idea why you objected to that the way you did. It feels as random as can be, you could have said that about any other time i reply to someone about any read. But this feels like im treading down a path that leads nowhere

About Enchant.. that doesn't make sense. Why do you have him low? You didn't answer the question -- you just said "His contributions are suspect" and then asked me "Why wouldn't I have him so low". He's at the bottom of your reads, not the middle. I'm asking why you think he's the most suspect out of everyone

I see that you mention his contributions here remind you of another game, gnosia -- now we're cooking, in what way

I will admit I was townreading Enchant but after I reread after seeing you having him at the bottom, I concur that I do not have good reason to think he's town. I saw a dragons post and samebrained it and felt sure of it but yeah I can't actually tell the difference. I have no idea what Enchant is going after or if controlling the nightmare is his way of helping the town. He hasn't mentioned any reads. But I have him more as a sort of mysterious person of interest more than primary suspect at this stage of the investigation, you know?

[Morning Tweet]

That changes things, actually.

{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice, TemporalLich, DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Gimli, Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}

As I said, Enchant is reminding me of Gnosia so if he was town there... :P

Bruh

You're saying

What?

Everytime you and Enchant mention Gnosia i get confused. Are you saying that you mistakenly thought ENchant was scum but he was actually town i nthat so in reality this game matches with that game which must therefore be him town meta?? Did that seriously just happen?? Are these the onlyt two times you've played with Enchant?

I am confused

Fuck me too

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Meg

[Morning Tweet]

Oh my god, imaginalitys iso is bad I hate the TL read and the stated confidence. I like the talking with the bats post

Maybe imaginality is just really scummy as town? He was pretty convincing that one time he was scum in a game i was in. But I think he's suspicious here. Would need to see a read other than "TL is faking being townie!helpful" which he mentions in 3 or 4 of 7 posts

I voted Meg because I largely disagreed with almost every conclusion. I was thinking Ranger!Scum Enchant!Town, Drew!Town (obviously). Why is Porkens and Ranger your top townreads (above Kyoko who you state what i thought were better reasons for. Maybe respecting the scumrange but still idk.)



Also, I hate the wordy comment by Meg because it's true

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

okay Porkens definitely has a town mindset, retracting the scumread on Porkens now

I really like the elaboration of the lead rist... completely discredits my scumread for low effort posting and openwolfing to the point I townread Porkens now

I feel like I might have missed more than i thought

**Scrolls**

No I'm not sure, I dont have a conclusion on Porkens still.

I like his readslist order and I tend to agree on Ranger!scum and with his town pool

I can't really say for sure, he's a sly piggy. But I tend to agree he's not low efforting he's clearly reading the game and analyzing. I feel good about him

[Morning Tweet]

well I was scumreading Porkens for low effort posting and the reads Porkens posted had no elaboration at that time, so I wasn't pushing Porkens for gut reading as that would be a bad push

oh and 596 is a high effort post that doesn't give me confidence... apparently pointing out a potential scum signal is role fishing?!

pedit: wow... I feel disheartened... :(

and yeah I'd want to see imaginality provide a town read with at least one iota of elaboration

the read imagine has on TL, not you. I think that it's just a very peculiar read to be as confident on as he was

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah I wanna be in the nightmare

UNVOTE:

@Meg

Dragon is proba bly like one of my most confident townreads and I havent even bothered to explain that shit to *myself*. i dont need to. i just let myself be blow n away by the towniness. Your elaboration abt kyoko makes sense and im not really suspicious of porkens now that i contextualized myself more



Imagine, i would like to request a status report of your read of TL. if possible. if thats still a thing

hmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhm

I considered taking Kyoko out because I have no posts of her in recent memory but the Gimli/Kyoko exchange felt very tvt to me at the time plus i dont know if i have a team of seven yyet

HURT: Morning, Dragon, TemporalLich, Gimli, Drew, Kyoko, Porkens

I could actually take anyone out im not really confident on anything besides Dragon, Maybe middling confidence on tl/gimli/drew, then lowest on everyone else

Flea and Enchant both vaguely towny (we all have polarized thoroughly on Enchant and I dont really trust myself to go further than that) to my memory but not to the point of party membering. Maybe Meg.

I do think Drew is town. I disagree with his takes on TL and Dragon. It's like, I dunno, the thought process for the Dragon read feels.. cant put it to words, can't every time i try. Theyre thought processes i wouldnt personally have but ones i can buy him believing. Maybe it's a poor read. I'm definitely not able to figure it out right now. Later

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: TL, Meg, and Drew hjalp

meg is null leaning town for effort... I think

that's just an impression from barely skimming meg's ISO

I effort more as scum dw

meg is null leaning town for effort... I think

that's just an impression from barely skimming meg's ISO

Why does effort = town?

Pre Edit: I kinda disagree Meg

yeah... effort is why I lean town on you lol

pedit: it takes effort to fake effort so having effort is very slightly towny imo

and having zero effort is anti-town

Im lost. Are we agreeing that effort is something that Meg does more as town or scum? Drew, if you think that Meg efforts more as town then why wouldn't it be town indicative for Meg to be putting in the effort this early. This reads like you and TL are agreeing that Meg would effort more as town. I'm very confuse

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Rat on Porkens

I don't ~think~ I'm being disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

I literally laid out two examples.

Clinging to OMGUS when my read on you has nothing to do with your read on me is disingenuous. I

couldn't

have had a read on you prior to your posts because your slot had no posts. Your very first post was scumreading me.

Quoting a--spoiled, titled appropriately to mark its ooc nature--post and stating it was an overreaction/overdefensive when it was marked as not game related is explicitly disingenuous.

Beyond those, stating my style is easy for scum to do is also disingenuous, because as plenty have noted: I've a long track record establishing my playstyle.

bolding

mine. I strongly disagree that it is actively disingenuous. I'm of the opinion that everything posted in-thread, discounting rl stuff like V/LAs and whatnot, is game related, otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to post it in the game. That said, I do wonder why exactly things got so fixated on the "disingenuity" allegation. Confront:

I don't ~think~ I'm

being

disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

Doesn’t “disingenuous” refer to my intent?

Now I'm going to do a semantic argument, but bear with me. Here Porkens is saying they concede they may

be

disingenuous (note the verb. Not "come off as", or "appear", but "be"),

and

they say that they believe the word "disingenous" to refer to intent. Which is not a thing that globally makes sense, since surely Porkens would know what their intent

was

.
Here what it looks to me; Porkens got a composite accusation. Debating one's own tone is fruitless, and they couldn't very well navigate the hypocrisy charge since they realized they just got caught up on that. So they tried to railroad toward the disingenuity allegation, attempting to be conciliating on it while at the same time trying to brush off the more damaging shades of it, those about intent.
VOTE: Porkens


A nightmare vote shall wait actually doing some ISOs. Which will probably mean after some sleep since I'm tired.

I can follow the bit where you say he railroads the disingenuous accusation in an attempt to "play it off" More on this in a second.

The interaction that occurs immediately after

Spoiler: TL, Ranger, Porkens

Doesn’t “disingenuous” refer to my intent?

Disingenuous = lack of sincerity (in the mafia context, usually in "lack of good faith in argument", "lack of sincere thought", etc.).
This is usually due to scum, but sadly not always.

Town players can either do these things despite their scum roots deliberately,
Or can do it through simple lack of honesty in their thoughts. It's poor wording, but think "lack of integrity in thought", where they are not approaching their thought process with critical thinking and are biased and arguing through the bias.

However, in this case it is indeed referring to my thoughts on your intent.

Town players can be disingenuous.
I feel like your intent came from scum.

VOTE: Porkens

So you are just gut reading me in 1000 words, cool.

there's not really a point on keeping a scumread you feel is discredited and wrong... it just leads to trouble and confirmation bias.

that being said, the push on Porkens for being disingenuous kinda feels like a weird push to me but the reasoning seems good

pedit: saying everyone voting you is gut reading you is a really weird push, Porkens

Yo that’s where I’m at

but you tried to say that Ranger's read on you is a gut read in an attempt to discredit that read...

that's very confrusing and my mind is a baked potato

Ok but like ranger isnt “everyone?”

Also it is gut! They say a bunch of stuff, that stuff could be town or scum, but feel it’s scum.

well there's also 535 so I saw a pattern or at least I thought I did

but yeah that was an unintentional exaggeration

pedit: I mean I guess that makes sense, but that doesn't discredit a read so a push based on that would just be strange

Porkens is just.. right. I dont see what TL is seeing there at all. That was kind of a gut read in 1000 words and he was only directing that comment towards ranger

Rat's semantic argument busts my brain up I've never seen a read quite like it. I think the bit where Porkens calls Ranger's elaboration of their playstyle overdefensive was a fairly subjective take i didnt really agree with. But I also strongly disagree that it's an "explicitly disingenuous" take, just because Ranger labels the defense as a side tangent, it is still directly referencing what Porkens found scummy. I see that was something you bolded that Ranger said. I think we are in agreement on this, it's just the semantic bit...

I dont think saying "I don't think I'm

being

disingenuous" is any meaningfully different from "I'm not trying to read you in bad faith". Technically you can't bad faith someone on accident if you are genuinely trying to read them but i would definitely still say that line. Whatever, a semantic nightmare. I am a little surprised that is your strongest suspicion but I can kind of see what you're thinking, almost

Clones entrance is overtly scummy. Lack of effort can be towny but you do need a reason to believe that to be the case, no

VOTE: Clone

[Morning Tweet]

The other game ended, i was scum n basically drew had me dead to rights D1, i assume thats why his townread of me is so strong here, plus he was about to die, it checks out

Drew being the top wagon is a damn crime

Im conflicted on imaginality, he's townier now than before. He's very good at scum thought so could just be another case of that

We should ask Clone if they have reads besides the Gimli vote

[Morning Tweet]

That was a very weiord way of phrasing @Clone, do you have any reads besides Gimli

[Morning Tweet]

I think that Clone using one of his (3) posts to call a lack of effort potentially towny is scummy, so scummy to the point where it becomes a parody

I think the OMGUS on Gimli wass blatantly not caring

Uneducated guess -- maybe. I realize that Clone is banking on that they usually probably don't care that much, so it's not indictative of anything for them not to care, i get that. But i still find the almost nothing they've posted scummy Which is good enough for me.

Plus, like, you're not going to figure this out by *not* voting Clone. Voting Clone is at least marginally better in that maybe it causes Clone to do more

[Morning Tweet]

Plus, like, you're not going to figure this out by *not* voting Clone. Voting Clone is at least marginally better in that maybe it causes Clone to do more

Strong disagree.

3 posts, no content, acknowledging a prod.
That's a slot that doesn't care about anyones read or pressure. Voting there is going to do less than nothing.

Hell I'd go as far as saying that wagons scum driven.

If he doesnt say anything and the elim goes through i still think that's a better result than ignoring him. Less than nothing is hyperbolic, it will accomplish more than ignoring Clone even if met with ignoring back

[Morning Tweet]

Plus you're kind of ignoring everything else i said about clone there. What he did contribute was scummy SO scummy

[Morning Tweet]

I guess i am not in nightmare, but if you decide to use vig, DON'T.

Why is this your most stated opinion. If theres anything i take away from you so far is that you really really really dont want the idiots to get the vig shot but WHY Enchant why is that the only thing you care about

I think that TL gave some townreads too leniently (I'm not convinced on imagine yet, TL was convinced a little quickly, and why Kawaii) but i wouldnt go so far as to say he's been disingenous trying to look good... I think out of the general consensus town...

I flip on Ranger a lot, I think maybe Enchant's alignment would help me. I dont have a reason to townread them but most of the game does. Their lengthy posts are super lengthy elaborations on how they gain reads ... the way the play would just make it so much easier to maintain as scum ...

I just now saw this

Spoiler: Ranger

About Enchant.. that doesn't make sense. Why do you have him low? You didn't answer the question -- you just said "His contributions are suspect" and then asked me "Why wouldn't I have him so low". He's at the bottom of your reads, not the middle. I'm asking why you think he's the most suspect out of everyone

I don't see where the confusion is. Most of the players in the game look town. Enchant didn't. Enchant's content reminded me of Gnosia (I was under the impression he was scum there), Enchant's content felt forced, Enchant's contributions felt like scum. When not buying the meta defense and having good reason to suspect him, why wouldn't he be that low?

I dont understand -- if DragonEater was not under severe pressure (From my recollection he wasnt), why do you propose I was forcing a towncase on him?

You answered this yourself: spoiler relevant

of course

if scum is smart they will focus attention on getting put in the townblo

c -- which could lessen the work they have to do "lining up suspects" --

they instead just need to play to "infiltrate the townblock" and just not be the least trustworthy

TBH putting the burden on scum to fool me into placing them into my trusted group, rather than taking a more hands-on, interrogation-style approach to search out suspects has always felt perfectly fine to me. I like playing this way. even moreso at the start of the game though

I think you're opening yourself to getting fooled in ways that you couldn't have before, since scum is now intentionally playing to get in your bloc in many cases, but im not sure it's necessarily making it harder for yourself. I think innocent people give off many signs that they're clueless and effortlessly, scum has to try pretty hard to mimic it. I just favour looking for genuine signals over fake ones

This is getting kind of wandered off. But your question definitely feels pertinent to the way i tend to play so theres my opinion

[slashspoiler]What's a good way to infiltrate the townbloc, Morning Tweet?

You've played a great deal of this game, and developed an entire style of scumplay that is influenced by your townplay. Scumplay as the dark mirror of townplay usually takes cues from the townplay. As scum, would you not want to mimic being "clueless", and try to appear genuine, and try to get placed into the trusted group?

What method would you use to accomplish this?

I posit: exactly what you've been doing.

Looking back at it, I was just responding to Drew's vote on Dragon which i disagreed with.

The level of defense for the event seemed out of proportion to me. You went into detail about the situation which wasn't worth having that much detail given. 392 felt out of place with the amount of focus placed on it.

This is a good argument for why I as scum would want to emulate my townplay. It is not a good argument for why you think I'm scum in this case.

Defending townreads from other townreads is not a characteristic of my scumgame -- as you point out it's something I do as town and would want to imitate as scum. You use a lot of space to prove the point that I would be emulating my towngame as scum which is obvious, but didn't exactly provide anything other than that you found my posts "overblown" or "defensive out of proportion" in determining why I'm being disingenuine. That's probably the actual deciding factor for you -- but I guess I don't really have any comment on that. I do, however, dig the wordplay

[Morning Tweet]

pedit: Isn't who gets the gun more important than whether or not the gun or the medkit is used?

I was originally town reading TL for a solvy approach but their reads on me as it happens seem reeeaaaally flexible with minimal evidence. Like my explanation post was super low content/effort but it completely flipped their read on me? Ya feel me?

I'll probably look at this because my take on TL isnt exactly ver y nuanced

[Morning Tweet]

Err rather, who decides who gets to shoot the gun, I guess. One extra step. Not who gets to shoot the gun

The point i was making is that whichever ability is picked doesnt really stirke me as important as who's controlling it

[Morning Tweet]

So I take it no one claimed the King shot

I think that kind of obvscums Clone in every scenario

[Morning Tweet]

HURT: Drew, TL, Gimli, Morning

[Morning Tweet]

I need to reread the two Es (Enchant, Empathice), I've seen some people suspicious of one or the other but they've blurred together a bit in my mind. I do remember wondering about possible associatives between you and Enchant and TemporalLich but you at least seem towny to me today so I was probably wrong about that

Enchant is dead, died in the night w/ Kyoko, you want Empath
Idk about Gimli suddenly pushing Morning Tweet, maybe it's paranoia? If Gimli genuinely fears MT then this makes sense, anything outside of it doesn't to me. Idk what hood means but I assume it's the nightmare, the shift is notable tho
You scumread me yesterday since I was being self-conscious, that's how I am sometimes, fear of failing
I'm down with eliminating Clone, open intent to be inactive, feel meg ghosted but that's usually to things beyond someone's control, so Clone > Meg if I had to choose between the 2

i neighbourized him without giving a warning then didnt speak in there for a while

Plus, gimlis pretty sure theres scum in the nightmare.

Hm, I'm not really sure why he is, but that was something he was consistently worried about so its not that sudden of a read shift. The reason I'm not sure is because im not really sure we discussed anything in the Nightmare that would inform scum to kill kyoko. She was very towny in there. Maybe it'd be weird for scum to kill her given she was V/la for most of the day. I'm not really sure. It's not what i was expecting.

HURT: Drew, Dragon, TL, Gimli, Morning

that isnt to say that wasnt a HERO kingmove bravo

Yes...

This was actually my theory, i figured clone or someone would come forward immediately andi t's a spiteful town thing. But, no

what we need to talk is about me being in a hood with MT

if MT is town she has no reason to do it

if someone else is town they have no reason to do it

so it's a scum thing or a random thing

if it's something scum I think we need to flip MT

if someone that hooded me and MT can come out and claim please I need to know why you'd do that

What are you talking about no reason to do it??? What reason does one usually have to hood someone?

[Morning Tweet]

I like one post by MT in her entire ISO. I don't like this.

std has been limbait so this feels planned. he won't defend himself and we'll him and he'll flip something else.

std doesn't have to claim anything, if we're gonna kill him we just kill him, if we're gonna let him live let him play his NAs without scum knowing what he has

Was it my firstp ost

I'm a bit wary of Gimli's sudden push on Morning Tweet and being so concerned about being in a neighbourhood with her. Seems to me like that should help Gimli read Morning Tweet rather than otherwise. Whereas scum would definitely not want to be in neighbourhoods with players who might be able to read them. So Gimli pushing MT early today does ping me a bit. Along with just now saying he only likes one post in her entire iso when in 729 he was 'still' townreading her - that seems like quite a dramatic shift?

Yes I'm kind of still seething at that comment, that did feel like it came from nowhere

Gimli doesnt strike me as the type to turn down the extra challenge to interact with me. I think he's just freaked out. Could be playing it up i guess.

I see no reason not to lim Clone here

(save the) Dragon's reaction to the I saw in a dream... thing seemed pretty genuine.

yeah... the Kyoko death also unsettles me

however... I do know that Doctor Drew is 300% not sus trust me bro

kyoko death is 100% scum in the fucking hood man

Why?

I don't agree with running up StDragons, i err on the side of it being a possible curveball lie

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: casing std

so std is probably who we're gonna kill so I wanna hardcase him for towncred:

enchant having wim/not trolling/doing mech spec is probably town enchant

TMI

HURT: Save the dragons, enchant, Gimli, Rathydra

puts himself in there cause he is a wolf. also he joined the neighborhood and was the wolfiest player in the game so that also means he is a wolf.

i like his energy

TMI

Are you trying to pocket me lol

fake reaction

yeah i actually thought that post was weird

kira energy post

i disliked porkens entry but recent posts have seemed alright i guess?

i don't know about clone but it's a decent wagon for now

super kira energy post



pure scum meta 100%

Is that stDragon's entire ISO?

No. okay i skimmed it. I liked Dragon's Enchant read at the time but you could theoretically say TMI. I thought Enchant was fucking impossible to read bordering o nscummy

373 has insane Kira energy you're right. i dont havea s much of an opinion on 731

Kawaii strikes me as particularly innocent today which is not something i was seeing before

Kyoko's last words in thread were to go on V/LA and she was gone for the rest of the day. She was very active in the nightmare. The neurons just clicked on why Gimli is assuming scum was in there. Rat was the only player i dont have much of a read on, i liked what we had otherwise

[Morning Tweet]

Meg *could* be scum

[Morning Tweet]

Willing to say imaginality has been consistently keeping up seeming like town to me. I'm not quite willing to bet on it as hard as my other reads

HURT: Drew, TL, Gimli, DragonEater, Kawaii, imaginality, Morning

[Morning Tweet]

Isn't it ideal to vig Clone and eliminate someone moderately active?

Maybe, but it would be a pretty telegraphed shot. Usually vigilantism work better as an ambush

We should probably get Clone while we have him right where we want him

[Morning Tweet]

it's probably best i just die here so people know i'm not the probable scum in the N1 hood and so that people know that this messenger or whatever is untrustworthy.

i've been mislimmed for a lot less recently a lot and it's getting to me

it's also hard to play a game where you're like "truth" and the mod's like "lie" and people are like, hmm

i'm not going to claim my role unless more people want me to

i listed why it would be strategic for me to die, not that i want to die

This alll strikes me as fairly genuine

Dragons reaction to being told he can kill by the mod has been fairly convincing if guilty here

It's not exactly a hard ask considering Korina is the mod and there is confirmed lies. I think if Dragons were scum he would have been more likely to either admit that he can kill or he would have had a less convincing reaction than this

VOTE: Clone

I thought we might have enough people that Clone would be at risk of quicklim. I guess not. I think the Kingmaker shoyt yesterday was a lot more damning than anything Dragons has done

We should probably get Clone while we have him right where we want him

VOTE: Clone

You don't think Fenrir or Empath are better eliminations today?
Also, since you are engaging might as well ask: Do you agree with Gimli that Fenrir is giving off Kira energy? Or do you think they are playing more similar to their town game (I.E. Donner Party esque)?
I'm genuinely interested in your opinion, also because I suck at reading Fenrir.

Fenrir?? Oh Dragons\

The Kira energy thing is essentially that Dragons could have written this

yeah i actually thought that post was weird

This totally sounds like something Kira would say while visibly chuckling under their breath in the face of whoever first called the post weird. But that's just a tone thing at best.

What exactly is making Dragons so suspect to you as to override the KINGMAKER WHICH DEFINITELY ONLY HELPED ONE PERSON and hasn't been claimed

flipping std will get us to know if we can trust or cannot trust or give any weight to the messenger. I suppose we're gonna have that in the following gamedays as well.

I don't mind you guys joining me on the Fen wagon so if that's your reasoning for it, go ahead.

i dont really think it matters enough to use an elimination to check if we can trust the messenger or not.

Korina, i belive, created a game constructed ENTIRELY out of lies once. Quote me on that I'm pretty sure it's true. Could have been someone else. The point im trying to make is that They're definitely on the "moderators can and should deceive the players" side of the argument. I dont rlly need to test that. Dragons reaction is tricking me enough to want to kill our man. we've got him right there

[Morning Tweet]

TL is my best guess if there was scum infiltrating the first night. Actually, it's probably Rat, but I don't have a read on them.

I townread TL and the check on Drew definitely makes sense with what we discussed. TL was the one who claimed an inno on Drew yes?

I

Really

don't like TL claiming to have used their only shot otherwise they would have resolved themselves during the night. Bleh.

VOTE: Gimli

HURT: Kawaii, MT, TL, Drew, Rat, Imaginality, Empath

If I didn't give any explanation for a read it's probably a gut read of their entire play and not an easy thing to explain.

Why're you voting Gimli, or is that one of the entire play gut reads.

Dont you have all the reason in the world to be voting TL, why Gimli

Also, do you have an opinion on Clone besides:

Isn't it ideal to vig Clone and eliminate someone moderately active?

Why do you think that would be more ideal?

I mentioned why I think it would be less ideal -- basically we're telling Clone "we're gonna shoot you" and giving him and teammates the opportunity to do anything in response. Eliminations are stronger, more assured. And then the vig shot can be used to sneak attack someone and scum wont be able to respond to that

[Morning Tweet]

That's a shame. I really liked what I had seen.

We were doing great, too, town, i think we would have gotten all scum except Kawaii. Nice Kawaii.

haha morning tweet was a cultist!!!

I can't believe some moron robbed us of how funny this game would've become

Hehe

I put in the action to cult you but switched it to Kyoko after noticing a post of yours that said you adamantly did not want to be culted and also that u had a surprise for scum visiting you. For the record, it was the second reason that swayed me much more

Both you and Kyoko were lying about having an ace up ur sleeve turns out, but Kyoko got shot. That was too bad!

If you continued to pressure me I was going to try to cult you later if i really had to

Putting you in the neighbourhood was kind of an afterthought because I didn't quite fully *get* my role until i sent the actions. I thought the alternate wincondition was just if I culted everyone, not neighbourize everyone.

Really fascinating setup from everything ive seen.

[Morning Tweet]

MT, please tell me you would have culted me at some point. I guess my town read on you was because somehow deep in my subconscious, I knew you were cult and want to buddy up to you lol.

You were my default choice before anything had happened. But then i get to start thinking -- no, no, thats too obvious, culting drew in the korina game which definitely has a cult, no, ridiculous

I thought about it. But then most of the game didnt agree u were town on that first day which was surprising to me and then my hands were tied, cause i wanted to pick someone running the Nightmare

I didnt really think hard enough about my target getting NKed (obviously) even though I genuinely thought Gimli might get NKed when i was arguing against giving him the gun

Ohhhh yeah thats right Stupid me thought Kyoko saying she is bulletproof to just the people in the nightmare meant it was more likely to be true. She gets shot. Immediately. Very decent proof for me that scum isn't in the nightmare though (especially in hindsight but I did think that at the time), i wouldnt have risked that shot. BUT I COULDNT POINT THAT OUT!!! Everyone will be like "Why were you focusing on who was shootable"

There is a very brief moment in the Nightmare 1 chat where I say "Ohhh that's right STD I didnt consider the implications of a cult" or something, that was my 1 kira moment for this game

[Morning Tweet]

Thanks Korina