Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

Reg/Grey you've played in this before so I'm guessing you have some set up spec ideas. Whoever got investigation immunity needs to claim it or it'll just be assumed scum bought it. The fact night kill went so cheap is also kind of sad (and having the second scummiest player be required to spend all their money on it to at least drive it's price up would be one idea). Whoever has oracle should claim it and all the next night powers too (and while we couldn't plan with the previous powers, it's somewhat possible to plan for future powers now). Extra vote should be claimed as well. Governor I'm more meh on whether or not it's kept secret.

VOTE: Grey I'm curious where on the power list miller is?

[Mehdi2277]

Ask reg/grey money wise (I've only read part of the original game). But there is no miller is my point (all role powers are ones we buy and I believe everyone is vanilla at start). Now that you know there isn't a miller how does that affect the vote?

[Mehdi2277]

Fake claiming miller in a game known to contain no miller. Does that fact not affect your thoughts on the miller claim at all?

P-edit: This applies to matt/kanye as well. It's a pretty obvious fake claim based on the fact

all

town/mafia role powers are bought (assuming the last game is any indication).

[Mehdi2277]

The fact I'm assuming this game and last are at all similar. All mafia and town were vanilla then at start.

[Mehdi2277]

Already stated my opinion that oracle and investigative immunity people need to claim (which is also me saying I do not have either power). Fund pooling should be done on a case by case basis (as in if we were to have a clear then I could see having a lot of people transfer to them and doc on them).

Reg I can see the matt town read, but can you explain the sala town read?

Matt is the first line in that post terrible or the second?

P-edit: Tammy unless he's read you wrong repeatedly before I'm not sure how that makes much sense for a reply.

[Mehdi2277]

Tammy until those people show up it doesn't matter if they supposedly exist (that and I'd think you could defend yourself better then someone else can).

I actually thought the second line was worse (think it was mentioned since it pretty much just extended rvs and was just useless). VOTE: Tammy

Sala I think you're leaning town I'm just curious on how reg has you as very likely town.

[Mehdi2277]

It's mainly the fact you're treating it like matt will stop because someone else will say you're town instead of you're own actions. Defend wasn't the best there, but this should make it clearer.

[Mehdi2277]

And tammy what are you trying to imply with the question anyway (it sounds like you think he's scummy for it, but aren't just saying it)?

And sean if you're town again this game will be oh so much more fun.

[Mehdi2277]

You will receive back a report of "Mafia" or "Not Mafia".

Investigation Immunity (Personal): You appear as "Not Mafia" on Cop reports, regardless of your actual alignment.

So did you read this, molla?

A true miller claim does affect things (and if you're fake claiming I think you've gotten enough reaction out of it to stop if you're town). Still fine with my current vote though (and I don't agree with lynch all millers nor do I really think molla's first post was that bad for a true miller claim anyway so just judge him for what he does later).

P-edit: I haven't finished reading the mini so I assume you replace in later voided.

[Mehdi2277]

Mentioned already but lack of it being part of voided's claim and not mentioned much does everyone think oracle power should be claimed today? I'd find it pretty useful since it's mostly just nice info.

And voided l was on day 2 near LLD replacing in when I was reading it. I'll try to finish it this weekend.

Game's also started well since while molla's thing is strange I don't think it's scummy from him anyway (matt while it's a different way of claiming you know he fake claims a lot) and I have several town reads.

[Mehdi2277]

I only see one problem with it and I'd be fine following it. A mafia doctor could just screw with it, but I'm assuming for now doctor is a role town wanted more (even if the bids didn't show it).

@Sean go iso BBmolla karma mafia in coney island. He fake claimed I think three times as town in one day (only the 3rd fake claim was of any really worth). Him fake claiming is pretty common.

And I don't think tammy would respond like this as town (I've only barely seen her play but from my glances it leans more logical then this) or at least I'm not sure why it's a reason to unvote her.

[Mehdi2277]

I've seen her do this before and she turned up town so pulling the vote for now.

Link to when?

[Mehdi2277]

94 is fairly weak unless you intend to apply it at all on grey if your point is just the idea is bad (and I assumed the RB claiming was so that if the night killer was RB town would know who interfered).

I also disagree buddying is always a scum tell (well I'm biased since he buddied me, but considering the way he buddied me it felt genuine if a bit exaggerated considering it's a comparison to a fairly recent game).

The rest I'm curious on his response to.

[Mehdi2277]

Reg I still want you to answer my question (where did get a really strong town read on sala from that quickly)?

I can see parts of the sean case even if I still don't really agree there (still enjoy tammy lynch though). Matt how is voided scum? (yeah I think the burden's on you first there for an actual reason or two)

[Mehdi2277]

I'm also curious how now you start falling into believing molla's claims. Miller claim was easy to tell as fake and this one shouldn't be as tough, and yet it seems like you actually believe it.

[Mehdi2277]

You'd be more patient early on and probably fake claim a different role to start the game off. Although it depends on whether the day vig is 1 shot or each day. Each day you'd definitely be more patient. 1-shot I still don't think you'd claim it and instead claim other things then use it later into day 1.

[Mehdi2277]

You'd be more patient early on and probably fake claim a different role to start the game off. Although it depends on whether the day vig is 1 shot or each day. Each day you'd definitely be more patient. 1-shot I still don't think you'd claim it and instead claim other things then use it later into day 1.

Oh so I'd try to lose credibility for when a cop does investigate me after I fake claim something stupid

Seems like a very well thought out plan

You make it sound like you couldn't get away with it fine.

Meh, I have trouble trusting you claim wise (even if I trust you alignment wise) after karma mafia.

[Mehdi2277]

How exactly does that outweigh everything else he's posted (and by the looks of he's not the only one who believes it so using it on him alone is weak too)?

[Mehdi2277]

Grey I was referring to this:

Empires constructing our reads at the moment but VM is literally near confirmed-town, he's never getting lynched or vigged or anything of the sort.

The vigged part shows reg/sat weren't sure on BB's claim either yet you focused on matt for it (I'll admit he's shown more belief but both have). So why the selective scum hunting?

P-edit: They'd know by the fact Grey's plan involves the person with the night kill claiming it.

[Mehdi2277]

Matt/kanye when you get back on I'm interested in your read of grey (same thing to reg/sat).

[Mehdi2277]

Currently it's really split on two wagons, so on sean my town read of him to be clearer is based on this:

second time you've convinced me your town within 2 pages

Fairly short statement, but for now it outweighs some of the other things when taken into some context with the reference being to micro 47 (only 4 pages to skim through to understand the reference). Coming from his first post with that game being pretty recent the remark comes off as very genuine.

[Mehdi2277]

Bah, this thing had too many walls to read.

Mehdi - I very much dislike the “Well we know there isn’t a Miller how does that affect votes” (which is not confirmed at all, BTW). It reads as someone testing the waters to see how support for a “BB lynch” will be supported.

You realize I was defending BB at the start and pretty much have since on the miller thing. And can you not be so literal on confirmed. If something has a very high chance of being true (based on both the entire way the set up works, and lack of any prs last game this was done, and wording of one part of the rules calling abilities as things to just be bought, along with how day vig still makes little sense in this set up with all the other powers appearing). Especially considering the timing of that (early on before he mentioned the vig kill and really kept with it or had said the flavor aspect)

MoI, your thoughts on Tammy?

I see nothing out of the ordinary from Tammy. She overposts as Town. She's reactive and melodramatic as Town. She if anything is more reserved as scum.

What is your read on the PartyBois?

Any actual link support to that?

I like all the set up spec from Pere.

Why specifically would you like to know my read on greygnarl?

I meant greyice. Simply because I'm split on him and I have a town read on you so I wanted your thoughts on him. You covered him afterwards though.

pedit: @BBMOLLA: You should just discuss the daykill with Gentlemen Bastards and I. Not because he's my only townread, but because he's my only townread I consider coherent enough to actually direct it in a positive manner. I'd recommend GreyICE (I mean, MoI is my top top choice because he is the most annoying to ever get lynched and I have him as a medium scumread so it would spare me the trouble)

When did he become your strongest town read?

Still don't think sean is scum although guille's reaction to sean being suspected is interesting (k he's read enough to have some reads, but not enough to understand why one of the main people that is being voted is suspected) and links the two a bit (primarily if sean flipped scum I'd want guille lynched right after). His silence is also interesting.

Whether gentlemen is right or wrong on tammy think he's probably town. My tammy read depends partly on something I'll decide on later, but at the moment I still like the vote. I'm fine with greyscum though too (don't agree with moiscum though at all).

@Molla, Voided tends to post long as town so saying it's calculated be more specific on (that and I see more of a usual town voided slight joking/relaxed tone for him). Mostly agree with you on greygnarl (221 is the post I'm referring to although I think whether he's right or not on scum having more money it was a town comment either way).

I like GB's point on defender in 222. Meh on stefan (dislike his reasons to focus on MoI which really just involve a lot of reaching on one minor point, while liking his first post).

I also like tazaro and phillammon (and philla even more so for 290). I think the scum slip applies to pitty more so then MoI although I'm currently leaning she actually inferred that instead of having it as scum knowledge. I really don't think MoI scum slipped. I opted out of the qt and considering most pms are vanilla I could easily someone just skim them and I'd think MoI would be more careful on things like that as scum especially when he was using it as a scum slip himself on someone.

Dislike defender's 281 quite a bit.

And with how easy claims are to confirm (as in they bought it) not giving time to claim powers bought and money used is a horrible idea. That should be a given always.

[Mehdi2277]

So is waiting a few hours languishing when you're a tiny part of that wall? If you think I'm lying on the thing I'm waiting to decide on you could just say that.

[Mehdi2277]

Want to support that with anything else at all in my play? You're calling me a scum read (unless wind blows is a town remark), but aren't expanding on that. I also love how you're vote is just parked on GB when you don't even really think he's scum now.

[Mehdi2277]

Micro 4, Micro 5, Open 443. I have other scum meta off site if you want more.

P-edit: I'm partly teasing you, but I'm still actually just waiting for something before I decide read wise on you.

[Mehdi2277]

Open ...443

Yeah ok.

There's 2 open 443's. I was in the second one.

[Mehdi2277]

Town. The only thing I honestly don't understand well is his avoidance of the thread (well I do have a guess why someone would but it's the most troubling thing), but post wise I still think of him as town (while it may see like he's just jumping with minimal thought, his flow of logic is clear if not necessarily agreeable).

[Mehdi2277]

Looking over things I have too many town reads (that and my read on tammy has solidified enough to town and I don't want to just wait to hear MoI's response to my question on her). I'd currently feel most comfortable with actually starting and having a defender lynch (guille with second since while not with sean I still dislike the only post he's made). I don't really see Grey as scum unless sean is (why else try to block a super easy mislynch assuming sean is town) and just disagree with the reasons against MoI.

UNVOTE: TammyVOTE: Defender

P-edit: I actually have all three of you as town now (which is confusing me a bit now, but I'll read over some people later).

[Mehdi2277]

As for why before, well I like using early game reads as a good backbone and from the first several posts tammy had she felt scummy while I felt the opposite from matt. Both have solidified to town right now with a decent amount dealing with Tammy's stubbornness (I don't see matt/kanye scum at all though).

[Mehdi2277]

Molla you've already called defender scum. You have a town read on me. That's all the reason you need to shoot him (or everyone could follow me to him).

P-edit: Fine I'll call greyice, ice (and you just gnarl).

P-edit2: If it wasn't for the fact I had you as scum for just strange early voting before I'd probably fight it. MoI I don't understand the read on at all though (matt's town reads work well with me though for the most part and he can explain reads pretty easily).

And I personally believe the daykill thing. I've only seen molla once keep on pushing a claim like this and that was when he fake claimed lovers with matt and both were town so I think when does push a claim he's actually doing it to help (and I'm not sure how fake claiming helps a lot so I'll go with it being true). Plus it can be proven (which is honestly the main thing to it).

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think scum with a daykill has any good chances of happening (unless the scum team is smaller then expected, but that's a pretty nice boost). Either he has it and is town or doesn't have it and reads need to be decided on him.

[Mehdi2277]

You're defining policy too strictly then. If a player is scummy as both alignments and does something scummy are they a policy lynch or a lynch? Sean has been scummy has both alignments and from my experience with him nearly got mislynched day 1 as town (yeah it was vengeful, but other examples can be found).

Either way fighting over vocab use is just dumb.

[Mehdi2277]

Matt, it's vocab usage. It's a minor thing to get worked up about and is fairly pointless.

And yes gentle not every townie is ideal town. I know that and understand it. I still think overall he's town (his flow between posts is clear even though it's strange).

Matt, I think both of you two are town, so at the least me and gnarl will help ice. As for starting the oracle thing anyone who hasn't just bold saying

I'm not the oracle

until everyone says it or we have a claim (if we have no claim I'll assume scum bought it since info like that has no good reason to be hidden).

Reg you yourself were fine having the oracle stuff claimed last game. Why not push to get it claimed when it helps organize things.

[Mehdi2277]

Town (T to S): Gentle, Ice, Matt, Tammy, (Gap), Voided, Sala, Molla, Gnarl, Sean, (Gap) Peregine, MoI, Tazaro,
Null (T to S): Philla, Pitty, Stefan, Elmo, Eid
Scum (T to S): Guille, Defender

That covers it about right now at the moment. S being most townie while W being most scummy.

And sala you could ask the same for what sean scum is like vs sean town. Him being suspected isn't all that new so I'd at least recommend checking his meta over matt (don't think he's scum now at all, just disagree with him).

Reg he didn't say he voted her for her meta, but for using self-meta. Just because he called her town and scum for meta related things doesn't mean they contradict (self meta being disliked and then swap to thinking about her and unvoting). In fact him unvoting when she was still being suspected even if it was going down a bit is a town tell not a scum tell.

I concede the point of his activity being scummy, but overall I think he's town still.

P-edit: Tammy what's your read on defender? That's the only one I need right now.

[Mehdi2277]

Micro 47. 4 page game. Go read it.

P-edit: Would you be willing to vote him then?

[Mehdi2277]

Did he ever say the meta he unvoted her was because of the selfmeta (or was that just assumed)? I assumed it was just stubbornness (the most noticeable thing about her play) but I don't know her meta to know what part of it he was referring to.

So yeah pretty much everything in sean's play except thread avoidance can be explained with a town motivation. Other point of him backing off Tammy when she was still suspected being a town tell (assuming tammy is town which I think she is) also applies.

[Mehdi2277]

I understand his ego troubles you, but if you can see him as town the quicker you two become friends the happier the thread will be (reg defended him well and I can as well if needed for any other reason you have to suspect him).

GB is grey still null to you?

[Mehdi2277]

Sala I realize matt likes bussing, but to do so that hard is really doubtful (along with the rest of his play). If you're half-clearing people based on MoI's reads while it's worth looking at later with some flips in it right now I doubt it'll help much (I'd expect at least one scum on it even though I doubt he'd tunnel a partner early myself). Stefan does go up quite a bit based on his flip though (and pitty goes down).

Grey, what 3rd party claims and pretty much gives the town a double lynch? I don't care if he's scum for he dies after we remove all other scum if needed (since we can just control his kill).

[Mehdi2277]

The only reason sean is scum that I can't defend on is his avoidance of the thread (which I'll just guess as given up town, but main thing is overall I think he's town). Reg we agree on defender. Any desire to compromise with me?

[Mehdi2277]

Continuing on the MoI dislikes bussing thing from my knowledge of him he rarely does it unless needed. One quick example is words with scum where he won with 0 bussing. He generally thinks partners alive is more important then town cred.

[Mehdi2277]

Going through MoI's iso neither sean or BB is scum with him (the way he fosed both that he'd have been pretty much needed to vote them if pressured). I don't think MoI's scum team has investigative immunity (probably belongs to the other team since no one has claimed it). Voided is likely not scum with him based on the way he reacts to GB's strong town read there.

174 is a weak scum tell for Tammy (MoI could have ignored the meta aspect and attacked her for it without much trouble).

I don't think any scum knew that town had a qt based on his reaction to it (which already said hurts Pitty some). Don't think sala is with MoI based on 186 and 223. Slight scum tell there for Peregine as well based on MoI not really using the question to an attack, but just backed down kind of (rest of his play for now keeps him as town).

Already mentioned stefan not with him and don't think GB is either.

Overall while it's helped some town reads only person I think it hurts a good amount right now to put as a scum read is Pitty.

Pitty's walls themselves are pretty strange when she complained to me about walls quite a bit in a recently finished game. She knows as scum she uses them more, but I think it's scummy anyway. Right now I want defender or pitty lynched most (defender much more, but I'd accept a pitty lynch just fine).

Town claiming NK I like since it let's us vote on it (I think triple lynches is more important then decreasing scum's ability to affect the lynch).

[Mehdi2277]

In

general

MoI doesn't bus (which two examples of games he did pretty much none have been given as well). At the same time I'm also fairly sure on my town read on him so I want to know who else you'd be willing to lynch.

[Mehdi2277]

BBMolla's claim: Way too early. From past experience, early miller claims came when a player was L-1 from an RVS wagon, even though the player in that game was scum. It's either scum playing it safe or a genuine town claim, probably the former. IMO, a town miller should claim towards the end of the day, not in the first post of it.

What games have you been playing, in nearly every game I've played with a miller they've claimed immediately day one.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22472: Shotty claimed miller when pressed during RVS. He was scum.

It's also site meta to claim in the first post as true miller and most follow it. The majority of town millers claim early. Saying him claiming early as a fos reason is really dumb.

I don't care if he's scum anyway (pretty sure he's town, but fosing him now is stupid anyway). He let's us have double lynches which is very useful.

Sat I just heavily doubt he's scum. Only fos reason I think is decent on him right now is thread avoidance. I can understand the others, but completely disagree with them.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't even care if he's scum right now. If he's scum he can be lynched later (after removing other scum). The fact you can't see how his day vig doesn't make him near clear when he claimed it and was willing to have it negotiated is bad. What kind of scum pretty much becomes a person who can do a second lynch for the town?

[Mehdi2277]

Investigation Immunity should absolutely be claimed ASAP.

Minor, but I think it's enough of a reason.

[Mehdi2277]

I'll admit matt loves bussing (no clue on kanye's stance towards bussing), but the main thing is the fact he started the wagon on seanald himself (he didn't jump on a buddy getting suspected he started it). Yes I realize hard bussers exist, but I just think it's more likely it's not a bus (while I disagree with the case on sean I understand it easily so I'm fine with matt's push).

MoI wasn't even doing a good bus on sean. If he was he'd have pushed it hard in it's final part. He barely mentions sean and just sheeps on the wagon. That's more like scum trying to quietly get a lynch vs scum bussing and wanting to make it clear they're one of the main people getting a scum lynched. Sala when you're scum bussing do you just do it quietly and try to not be noticed if the wagon still has time or do you do it in a way it's you're clear you're on the wagon?

[Mehdi2277]

Matt/kanye (I think that last post was matt, but not sure) how is your read on sean affected by moi's flip?

[Mehdi2277]

Kind of forgot that part. She was also the first to mention where the qt section was found in the pm which she wouldn't have known as scum at all so that drastically increases her chances of being town.

[Mehdi2277]

So PV how else would she know where it's located? Scum don't have a town role pm based on how MoI slipped, so how would she know it's location outside of being town?

[Mehdi2277]

And pere what's your opinion on defender likely not knowing the existence of a qt either? (I think before it was explained town has a qt link so scum wouldn't have had it then either)

Grey vote defender. I have a feeling we can get 10 votes quick enough.

[Mehdi2277]

And pere what's your opinion on defender likely not knowing the existence of a qt either? (I think before it was explained town has a qt link so scum wouldn't have had it then either)

Grey vote defender. I have a feeling we can get 10 votes quick enough.

[Mehdi2277]

Can you explain the philla read?

[Mehdi2277]

BB you get the efficiency bonus. We lose 5 per day. I'm fine losing 10 (2 days) if it means lynching someone I think is scum.

Eid read the whole game before calling BB scum (although he's the only one who's special like that so giving reads on everyone else as you go works). BB will never be lynched in the first three days. Ever. We already discussed that. He's proven part of his claim already(the vig part).

P-edit: Tonally I had philla as weak town and I've never played with him to know if he generally lurks as town or not. I can understand that and he goes to null, but I just prefer to start by looking at people who'll respond before someone who lurks a lot (yes I realize without pressure they can continue to lurk, but day 1 in a game not micro should have enough discussion elsewhere to let them by for a day and focus more on later). I'll watch what he posts later, but for the moment he's just null.

P-edit2: Then vote defender.

[Mehdi2277]

Me? I've already commented on it. I understand your reasoning, but I still think mine is more likely.

[Mehdi2277]

Case on defender:

1. He acted like he didn't know that town received a qt offer.

2. He's showed up but done little besides focus on small bits that have about 0 follow up or defending himself. He's given a weak town read on defender, but instead of defend him when he's getting pushed this much he lets the wagon move on.
3. Hasn't had single scum read he's pushed on.
4. Exchange with MoI that consists of him just ignoring MoI.
5. Dumb focus on BB

Done.

[Mehdi2277]

Defender I believe is at L-2. One more vote followed by a hammer intent (fairly sure he's scum, but I want to hear what he claims to have bought or done with money anyway). As for organizing give me a bit and I'll make a simple table of claims. Buying wise reg/ice can deal with that.

[Mehdi2277]

Not the NK. Base table is in the works.

[Mehdi2277]

Yes I'm considering the fact it's multi scum. Anyway the point on sean town for it is mainly the way he brought up the small meta thing. It feels genuine to me. Pretty simple thing.

[Mehdi2277]

I probably missed a couple claims when I skimmed for them so if I did tell me and I'll correct it. Anyone who hasn't claimed not oracle/nightkill (or hasn't claimed it) still needs to. The quick skim did make me want to put Philla back to weak town (he was one of the people who voted MoI not long after his slip).

Player	Roles they have	Roles they don't have
BBmolla	Miller, Vigilante, No Money	All of the Auction Powers
GB	Governor	Oracle, NK, and Investigation Immunity
Sala	Double Vote	NK
SDB	Roleblocker	Oracle and NK
Mehdi		NK, Investigation Immunity, Oracle
Voided		Investigation Immunity or NK
Guille		NK
Greyice		Oracle
PeregineV		NK and Investigation Immune
Greygnarl		Oracle and NK
Elmo
Eid		NK
Tazaro		NK
Stefan		Oracle and NK
Pitty
Philla
Tammy		Oracle and NK

Defender isn't on this but he's already claimed to not have bought anything.

[Mehdi2277]

People who might have the NK (assuming it belongs to town since if it's with scum there's a good chance they'll just lie there):

Greyice
Elmo
Pitty
Philla

People who could have the oracle if it belongs to town:

Sala
Elmo
Pitty
Philla
Guille
Peregie
Eid
Tazaro

P-edit: I'll update the table again after a couple more claims (vs updating after every single claim).

[Mehdi2277]

And tazaro can be scratched off people who need to claim oracle/not oracle.

[Mehdi2277]

I promise that the next table version will have your name changed then.

[Mehdi2277]

We also need to remember to do this:

We need someone to volunteer to be the person that gets oracle tonight and we need four people to volunteer to bid on negative utility items. So lets make it:

Oracle bidder:
Extra voter bidder:
Governor bidder:
Investigation immunity bidder (Needs to be a town-read):
Alternative negative utility item bidder:

Put your name on one of the list and once we're done NO ONE other than the person stated next to the item should be bidding on that item. Everything else is fair go.

Oracle can go to the scummiest player (and if they don't claim the oracle report they're lynched although if a price battle happens well that'd make scum waste money on oracle). I don't care who gets Gov since I'd want them to waste the shot. Investigation immune needs to be with a town read. Extra voter don't care until later days where every vote is more important. Other negative utility I'll just say should go only to town reads.

[Mehdi2277]

That way someone who's town doesn't have to spend money on it and the oracle is a role that it doesn't matter who has it as long as we know who has it to make sure they claim it's info.

I just noticed NK isn't on reg's list of roles we need to plan on buying which I think it should be. I'd want a town read having it or forcing scum to pay.

P-edit: What was the point in claiming then? Well I'm confident matt is town so you're investigating without any trouble. And I want to vote on who you investigate.

[Mehdi2277]

Oracle bidder:

Sean

Extra voter bidder:
Governor bidder:
Investigation immunity bidder (Needs to be a town-read):
Alternative negative utility item bidder:

I'll put the updated table in the next post.

[Mehdi2277]

Player	Roles they have	Roles they don't have
BBmolla	Miller, Vigilante, No Money	All of the Auction Powers
GB	Governor	Oracle, NK, and Investigation Immunity
Sala	Double Vote	NK, Oracle, Investigation Immunity
The Bois	Roleblocker	Oracle, Investigation Immunity, and NK
Mehdi		NK, Investigation Immunity, Oracle
Voided		Investigation Immunity and NK
Guille		NK
Greyice		Oracle
PeregineV		NK and Investigation Immune
Greygnarl		Oracle, Investigation Immune, and NK
Elmo
Eid		NK
Tazaro		NK and Oracle
Stefan		Oracle and NK
Pitty
Philla		NK and Investigation Immune
Tammy		Oracle and NK
Sean	Cop	All, but cop

[Mehdi2277]

I'd vote guille for investigation. And the more we agree on sean the better things are.

Even if they kill the NK buyer that just means we're making the game nightless which is great too (and they can only do that if they have the night kill). The night killer buyer would have to volunteer and say I have a lot of money.

Tammy we get wages and efficiency. If the day were to end now all townies (except BB since he lacks wages) would get 110 additional dollars.

[Mehdi2277]

Pitty/Elmo do you two have the NK? I'm assuming you're claiming no, but you both didn't state it in your recent posts. Ice also hasn't claimed whether he has the NK or not.

And reg how about telling a scummy player to spend all their money on the NK. If they're town scum will then be forced to choose between shooting a scummy player or let a town have the NK. If we can force scum to shoot the new vig that protects other roles like sean and it can be a way to direct the night kill on scummy players we'd have wanted to lynch.

Player	Roles they have	Roles they don't have
BBmolla	Miller, Day Vigilante	All of the Auction Powers
GB	Governor	Oracle, NK, and Investigation Immunity
Sala	Double Vote	NK, Oracle, Investigation Immunity
The Bois	Roleblocker	Oracle, Investigation Immunity, and NK
Mehdi		NK, Investigation Immunity, Oracle
Voided		Investigation Immunity and NK
Guille		NK
Greyice		Oracle
PeregineV		NK and Investigation Immune
Greygnarl		Oracle, Investigation Immune, and NK
Elmo
Eid		NK
Tazaro		NK and Oracle
Stefan		Oracle and NK
Pitty		Oracle and Investigation Immune
Philla		NK and Investigation Immune
Tammy		Oracle and NK
Sean	Cop	All, but cop

[Mehdi2277]

As long as he doesn't investigate a big town read that helps little to check I'll be happy.

Reg who exactly would you want with the Investigation Immunity? At the moment I'd be fine giving it to Ice, yourself, SPB, voided, Molla, and Tammy. There are other people I wouldn't argue if they bought it those are just the people I'd be most comfortable with having it.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't want to buy it either (if I did I'd have said so at the beginning). I'd rather use my money in a different way. I will if no one else says yes to wanting to buy it.

[Mehdi2277]

Matt just trust me in I have an idea that's more important to do then immunity for me.

[Mehdi2277]

And if you have a different town read as long as it isn't guille or elmo (I trust philla a bit more then GB) then I'd be willing to have it pretty much anywhere else.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm fine with sala having it so that works (steven could if he wants it and shows up quickly). At the same time preferably the lynch happens in less then two hours so we don't lose another 5 when most stuff has been agreed on already.

[Mehdi2277]

Yup we were at L-2. Sala isn't voting so that'd make L-1. I don't think matt is so he could hammer. We don't want defender at L-1 when he can self hammer (and now he's at L-3).

[Mehdi2277]

That's the current list for this page (I'll try buying one if needed otherwise I don't plan to).

Oracle bidder:

Sean

Extra voter bidder:
Governor bidder:
Investigation immunity bidder (Needs to be a town-read):

Sala

Alternative negative utility item bidder:
Tracker bidder:
Watcher bidder:

Gentlemen

[Mehdi2277]

I want sala to use it before lylo/mylo if we reach them. Otherwise it's not really any trouble (that and I think he's town so I don't mind him having it now).

[Mehdi2277]

Matt I'd rather have elmo transfer to GB (or some other town read). There's a specific reason that I've been trying not to say. I'll just say I don't want anyone to give me cash (and I'm not joining the bidding). I'm fine with the rest of the plan though.

[Mehdi2277]

I'll update the table in about 15 minutes as well. Read wise I'm close to the same as before (I don't think eid is scum especially with how she claimed, but she's a weak read so I won't fight against a scum read on her right now).

P-edit: Grey isn't dangerous and I want you to explain that based on all of his play.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't want money. I'm not dumb when it comes to set ups. I have my own idea. I've already said I won't bid (we do need agreement on who buys what and by the looks of it anyone transferring won't buy any powers).

I'm fine with money being transferred to grey. Tazaro is more meh (weak town read) but sure if desired. SDB what's your current read on greyice? I think he's another option for someone getting money.

[Mehdi2277]

Eid why did you not at least advertise if that's your ability? You could have advertised minimal and got an easy ability use since not many people fight over advertising.

Advertising for extra vote would also confirm her. Really any role power that has an effect shown in thread would work.

[Mehdi2277]

As for eid she's a problem for another day and the speed she claimed when the plan was revealed still has me think she's town. Would advertising a strong ability to let her have a use be a good idea or not?

Guille failsafes tend to harm plans mostly and unless a game is truly broken some risks taken is good.

P-edit: I'm fine with the current transfer plan (with eid fixed). Now all that's left is how bidding will happen.

I agree with this transaction matchup.

P-edit2: Stefan already said he's going to buy the nk and he has a lot of money supposedly.

[Mehdi2277]

I should say now since it's going to be a problem this is a delayed plan. Money transferred isn't received until the following night.

[Mehdi2277]

I honestly don't think eid is scum play wise even though the claim is bad, so for now I'll make a decision based on her continuing play.

Bois what do you want to do with bidding? That previous list doesn't work for people who now have to transfer instead of bid so doing a new blank list now would be good.

[Mehdi2277]

Eid isn't getting money. Stephan pretty much got MoI lynched and his reaction thing is also getting defender lynched. Pere withholding orac that long is strange, but he's still more likely town based on how he's speculated on the set up. Tazaro is a weak tonal town read.

[Mehdi2277]

How much money do you have is a better question (I realize it's easy to calculate I just don't want to do every other person's calculations). Guille by claim has 120 + 50 (wage) + 55 (efficiency) so he be transferring 225 (and 95 percent of that is 213 I think).

[Mehdi2277]

Money table is another task (still haven't updated the role thing yet).

GB what do you think of philla's vote on MoI?

[Mehdi2277]

Eid can't pick up night kills from advertising.

As for what I do with my money just trust me I'll be doing something useful.

Cop should be advertised and eid can use it the next night. Neighborizer is a decent advertise late game (especially if the first neighborizer is still alive since they could make connecting neighborhoods).

[Mehdi2277]

Advertising ability won't show up until the night after. Cop won't appear again until n3.

[Mehdi2277]

Claim money values now. Some people claimed already so finishing claims is best. It can out only one role (neighborizer) while doc/last will spent so little that 95 percent rounded down is pretty much about the same value (I'd be fine having those two lie and claim one dollar higher then what they have). Night kill person is scum for not claiming so they'll lie anyway.

[Mehdi2277]

Yes. It's easier that way. In fact calculate how much you can transfer (so 95 percent of the money you'll have tonight).

[Mehdi2277]

How is that possible? 100 + 50 + 55 + 20 (for investing assuming that was done) * .95 doesn't equal 223 and that's the way you can make the most money to my knowledge.

[Mehdi2277]

55 (efficiency) + 120 (how much you supposedly have now) + 50 (wage) /= 235

[Mehdi2277]

Oracle

Player	Roles they have	Roles they don't have
BBmolla	Miller, Day Vigilante	All of the Auction Powers
GB	Governor	NK
Sala	Double Vote	NK
The Bois	Roleblocker	NK
Mehdi		NK
Voided		NK
Guille		NK
Greyice		NK
PeregineV		NK
Greygnarl		NK
Elmo	Investigation Immunity	NK
Eid		NK
Tazaro		NK
Stefan		NK
Pitty		NK
Philla		NK
Tammy		NK
Sean	Cop	All, but cop

I removed a lot of not claims since oracle/Investigation Immunity were claimed now.

[Mehdi2277]

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided
Guille	213
Greyice
Elmo
Pitty	213
Philla
Sean	108

4 more people need to claim money.

[Mehdi2277]

The math I don't think it'll catch anyone and I'll do it (if you can argue how making a mistake multiplying makes someone scum then I'll consider it), but the actual values can be useful for later.

140 + 55 = 195*.95 = 185 for grey's transfer

[Mehdi2277]

My point is bad math isn't a scum tell (if it was pitty should be lynched for not screwing up her math).

[Mehdi2277]

Current (two more claims needed)

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided
Guille	213
Greyice	185
Elmo
Pitty	213
Philla	195
Sean	108

[Mehdi2277]

The bid list is forgetting who will pay to advertise cop. I've said all I need so once the list is finished and voided/elmo have claimed money hammer away.

[Mehdi2277]

Since you're transferring all your money to Peregine. Right now we're pretty much trying to transfer all money to strongest town reads and only let them bid (strongest town reads being more averaged together somewhat).

You need to claim how much money you have (it's one of the two things we need before we can end this day). Elmo needs to claim money as well while we need two people who get money to finish this list:

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop -
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Banker: Checks to see how much money someone has. x2 -
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

[Mehdi2277]

K, the final list is done (if no one has any complaints right now then it's final and dealt with). Voided/elmo money claims, then hammer defender.

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop - Peregine
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

[Mehdi2277]

That's pretty false considering how active this game has been. I still want a defender lynch though considering a big part of it remains with the qt comment. I think most people would take one and anyone who has one shouldn't think of it as a scum slip at all. One lynch I'd be willing to transfer to right now is elmo (I also think guille has been very lazy with this game when he'd be more useful as town and really tends to not ever add much new).

And GB I seriously doubt ice is the kind of player to not know what to claim for money considering how much he likes the set up spec for this game. I'm fine hearing a detailed explanation, but I doubt it's going to support your theory.

Defender it's not 5 bucks. It's 5 per town player. And we've pretty much agreed on everything so unnecessary extending is just dumb.

P-edit: I'd much rather lynch elmo if we move anywhere else for the lynch.

[Mehdi2277]

I'll post it in a bit sala (it needs changing for every value since we lost 5 each).

It's a worthy sacrifice when I think the lynch is wrong. I don't. The only scum meta you have on d3fender looks like his first game on site. When there's only one scum game to contrast his town meta and it's pretty much his first game that doesn't remove my scum read on him.

[Mehdi2277]

He truncates them.

[Mehdi2277]

Philla who are you voting?

GB, you have one game of scum meta that was his first game on site. It was before he'd even been town to know his own town play style. I'd think his playing style would change since then (my first game as scum I lurked a ton, but now I never lurk as either alignment). If you're going to use meta at least address this.

[Mehdi2277]

Voided I want you to explain the meta on him as well (especially since the way you just vaguely said it looks like you're just using it as an excuse to swap votes).

[Mehdi2277]

Complaining about how can he be suspected and calling himself dumb are a bit different. Giving set up spec on his own in a set up with some mechanics, but minimal except for money are a bit different. Yeah I don't see this exact same town reaction you see. I've only looked a bit at his meta though (first scum and one town). He's also been more direct as town looking at just mini 1344.

P-edit: I will vote elmo immediately if he passes 5 votes. Elmo's stalling also makes defender scummy (he could have claimed immediately with the daytalk help and had defender lynched yesterday but his stalling has kept defender alive). I have both as high enough scum reads either dying is good.

[Mehdi2277]

Gonna say again, like when I was L-1 D2.

If you townies think that lynching me (as town) would help the town win, even though I wouldn't get your logic, feel free to lynch me.


If there are scummier fish to fry, by all means go there.

vs

I feel screwed. I bet even if Magua declared me town (like I am) I'd still be lynched.


What can I do to...uh...not get lynched?

I've seen both town reactions. Compliance and still trying to weakly defend are very different. While his first reaction this game I'll admit is near identical (second this game I don't see at all) here he just seems like he's trying to not die still when otherwise he complied more easily.

[Mehdi2277]

I know it's not alignment indicative, but when you're arguing meta and that isn't something obvious in his near death town meta it does become a scum tell.

Reads are made overall. If that had been the only thing he'd done all game it could be enough to say he's town. When multiple things say he's scum and out weight that one I'll continue to think he's scum.

P-edit: I can't see myself voting greyice today.

[Mehdi2277]

How much money do you have? Say that and we can finish the lynch on defender (which remains the best lynch).

[Mehdi2277]

Current (two more claims needed)

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided	186
Guille	209
Greyice	180
Elmo
Pitty	209
Philla	190
Sean	103

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop - Peregine
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to Stephan
Seanald to Gentlemen Bastard
Guille to SlumberPartyBois
Philammon to Salamence
Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:
Eidolin
BBmolla
Tazaro
Mehdi

Only piece missing is elmo's.

[Mehdi2277]

Ignore the two claims part at the top. Forgot to remove it.

[Mehdi2277]

Final table assuming we lynch today for transfer amounts. Anyone who's been stalling on voting to get things ready should be fine voting now (only argument left is whether or not defender is lynched).

And reg for a similar scum tell to the philla one interesting how defender's slowly became more talkative near when you start defending him (look at the average times for his last several posts since he get defended compared to average time for the rest).

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided	186
Guille	209
Greyice	180
Elmo	142
Pitty	209
Philla	190
Sean	103

[Mehdi2277]

It's more the fact not using 23 dollars is strange.

[Mehdi2277]

GB takes defender is town because of meta. Here's the main defense:

I'll grab them quickly. Scum Meta, Town Meta, Town Meta #2. Town reaction to getting lynched #1, Town reaction to getting lynched #2.

His reaction this game #1, #2.

Suggest you read that. Think he's very much reacting as he did as town in past games.

Other things that have happened is transfer plan and who bids on what have been finalized. Philla has also been fosed more for appearing often when mentioned while having inactive stretches here and posting elsewhere while elmo got fosed a bit more for some people think he's stalling since he took a while to claim money (he claims he's always logged in just not always looking at this thread or something similar).

[Mehdi2277]

Top of page 42 shows most of the current night action plans while the finished transfer table is on this page.

[Mehdi2277]

You can trust the rest of your town reads in he's probably scum and one post doesn't outweigh everything else (short, fluffy posting at start with some posts just complaining on how I can be suspected, and calling mentioning a qt as a scum slip).

[Mehdi2277]

GB if defender flips scum what does phil's vote mean?

[Mehdi2277]

Didn't ask before, but why left hand specifically?

[Mehdi2277]

Current

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided	186
Guille	209
Greyice	180
Elmo	142
Pitty	209
Philla	190
Sean	103

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop - Peregine
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to Stephan
Seanald to Gentlemen Bastard
Guille to SlumberPartyBois
Philammon to Salamence
Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:
Eidolin
BBmolla
Tazaro
Mehdi

To make sure no one has an excuse for forgetting the plan since it's right near when the lynch was hammered.

[Mehdi2277]

Already am voting defender. I've been voting him for a while.

[Mehdi2277]

There's 0 chance I'm lynching a cop and a town read day 1. I think defender was hammered and sala miscounted, but I'll double check in a minute.

[Mehdi2277]

D3f3nd3r: Mehdi2277, StefanB, greygnarl, PeregrineV, Tazaro, BBmolla, Pitty, Sala, Philla, Sala2

That is 10 votes.

[Mehdi2277]

I'll say the idea sounds fine if and only if defender wasn't hammered yet. If he was hammered then all that plan does is out a power role.

[Mehdi2277]

Where? I don't remember him doing so anywhere.

[Mehdi2277]

Use it now. That should have him at L-1. Grey you liked him for a lynch for a while. Getting paranoid now is bad. He was nearly lynched and stalled for a reason. Matt dynamic stuff is something you care about. Him staying at L-1 this long in this fast of a game means something.

[Mehdi2277]

And for anyone not voting considering we no longer have to worry about finishing plan stuff vote who you think is scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Meh. Anyways I'll do this in a slightly different way. I won't vote anyone else aside from cc and such for the rest of this day. That's 1 person who will only vote defender. Him several say this good luck getting a lynch anywhere else.

[Mehdi2277]

Sean you're online. Who do you want to vote?

[Mehdi2277]

I will say while the neighborizer plan is unnecessary with defender dead and him being a bigger lynch priority I do think neighborizer should target GB or SDB anyway. They could then say whether they think the neighborizer is town or scum and it'd force the neighborizer into an action useful for town but negative for scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Meh. First off sean I want to hear your report.

[Mehdi2277]

Pere: If they want that kill, it will cost them a lot I can promise that.

I think he won it. It's definitely possible to have over 200 during n1 and assuming he used it all (and I see no reason why not) I'd think he won. He can say whether he did or not later.

Peregine I also want to know how much you spent advertising. Somehow neighborizer won advertisement instead so scum had to have spent money to get it there (which makes me think they lack that power and want it badly).

[Mehdi2277]

Oh and peregrine as soon as you find out the powers for tonight's auction I'd like to know.

[Mehdi2277]

She's not a SK (whether she's telling the truth or grey's old role). Her role sounds similar to the SK's fake claim from last game. And the SK in the last game didn't just get a kill (they had to buy it from the auction).

[Mehdi2277]

Voided, the RB is SPB.

[Mehdi2277]

Well assuming stefan has the NK you should be able to save your next doc protect for later. Knowing your town doc is nice (doc is one of the few roles that could know they've been role blocked and when the rest are claimed or the NK/neighborizer it pretty much confirms you did protect GB).

I'm mainly waiting to know what happened with the NK and advertisement stuff (along with oracle) before planning more.

[Mehdi2277]

Molla you can shoot today again right? Who are your current scum reads?

As for sean I think he's town and beyond that at earliest I'd want him lynched day 3 (he'll have two clears/or guilties by then).

Next Eid you should now have a copy of the neighborizer power. I want her to neighborize me. If someone hates that idea I'll explain why more but for now that's all I need to say there.

[Mehdi2277]

There's lack of reason to hide my money actions. I transferred all of my money to GB (I realize the effect on the plan, but at the same time the reasoning behind no two give to the same person was it meant looking at two people so just trusting me would have worked).

Considering scum wanted neigborizer I don't think they have it so I don't think we should be claiming lack of it. If everyone disagrees sure, but at the moment I think it'll just out a pr likely with town.

[Mehdi2277]

Nah I kept track of claims closely yesterday. The neighborizer hasn't been claimed. I just don't think it should be either.

Currently desires role wise are I want eid to target me with neighborizer and sala wants BP. I pretty much want his opposite (SDB buying it since I know they're enough of a night kill target and I want them alive). Whoever bids on night kill this time has to be rich though (as in 300s should be doable) since losing out on it I really don't want to have happen again.

Kanye I know why you were avoiding doing that but that was mainly for two scum reads to one town read. One town read and one scum read giving to a town read is a different case.

[Mehdi2277]

How is it slow?

And sure I'll trust you at the moment.

[Mehdi2277]

Originally wasn't the plan for the neighborizer target either GB or SDB? If they target SDB (assuming they're town and targeted GB before) then SDB can just say tomorrow whether he thinks they're town or not. Doesn't out them but lets them be controlled.

[Mehdi2277]

Can you explain tomorrow? For now I'm just going with trust you, but I do want to have some vague idea of why.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm assuming it's the common wage of 50. So spend a dollar to be able to transfer 50. That sound closer?

[Mehdi2277]

Continuing beyond that (and sean needs to show up soon since his role info is like the only thing left to add that isn't public already or has a desire to be claimed) I've decided pv is correct. Claiming doesn't hurt much nor is it as big a target as a doc/cop/tracker/rb. I'm the neighborizer. I targeted GB (which is connected to why I transferred since if I have the ability to hear how he acts and discusses it him having the money or me was fine either way). Reason I was meh at day start was lack of being able to chat with him.

[Mehdi2277]

If she neighborizes me I can then neighborize someone else and be a stream of info (assuming qt posts can be quoted the separate qts are close enough to being one qt with just a bit more work). I also would like to buy the neighborizer role for night 2, but I lack the money to win it over scum likely. Which is why whoever buys the neighborizer role tonight is the person I want to neighborize (anyone they neighborize can be added to that qt). I personally want SDB to have that power.

No I didn't get to talk to GB. Neighborhood qts aren't made until day start and with him dead I didn't get one.

[Mehdi2277]

I did win it (how else can I be the neighborizer). I already used it once on GB last night. I'll use it again tonight and then I'll have run out of the power.

[Mehdi2277]

Neighborizer (Targeted): Choose another player.

At the start of the next Day

, a Neighbor Quicktopic will be provided that either of you may talk in at any time while alive. If you use this ability a subsequent time, you may choose to add the new player to an existing Neighbor Quicktopic (this will work even if you die that Night), or create a new, separate one.

That clear enough?

[Mehdi2277]

Since sala wants it for

reasons

he thinks shouldn't be claimed right now. It's a question of do you trust that sala is doing it for a good reason or not. I do, so I'm not complaining. Doc will be out of shots at the end of this night. Future NK should be more easily bought by town now that transferred money should be coming to town reads. Bois should be protected.

[Mehdi2277]

Voided is pretty much near confirmed town (bb him claiming doc like that is worth a lot since there's about no way for him to know he was roleblocked without protecting GB) really but he can't protect himself nor would BP come in time.

[Mehdi2277]

VOTE: Elmo

Lazish vote, but currently one I still like.

[Mehdi2277]

My vote means I want that player dead. Whether by vig or lynch either works fine.

[Mehdi2277]

Why is SDP not town?

On a different note whoever bought the NK I'd guess is going to receive money from last night's transfers. If they had to transfer for them to have 190 on top of the transfer amount is doubtful.

[Mehdi2277]

There change on defender supports them as well, pushing interesting ideas, and being fairly loud all help.

Sean is known to have bought cop for 91. Assuming amounts are similar to the last game (which was the template for this) 150 start + 125 each day. 150-91+125 < 190

As well as for that to be true sean's scum team would have to have had the night kill too.

[Mehdi2277]

btw voided, tonight you are doccing whoever has the fattest wad to drop on the nk and ensure we get it.

Would a full money claim be best now? All power roles have been claimed already (except the two night kills which won't be claimed).

[Mehdi2277]

That's plausible although I'm curious how scum plan to buy neighborizer after they advertised it.

[Mehdi2277]

VS 400? Only way I see that working would again be a scum who got money transferred to them. 4 scum members as a guess with 150 + 125 per day for 275 at night start if they bought nothing. Everyone transferred on average 200. So 75 left (plus another 125 come night). Pool all the 75s for 300 and add in 125 for that person's wage for 425 which can still be beat (and it's around the max I can see possible assuming similar scum money like last game).

[Mehdi2277]

I like talking to people. Beyond being enjoyable it's very useful for reads. That's the main reason. Other one would be in scum's hands it lets the two scum teams form a connection.

[Mehdi2277]

Kanye all you know about his plan is he wants bp and there's some secret part of it. How do you judge something you don't what it is?

Weird one can just be called Gift (and it doesn't cost 1 dollars to use I just meant 1 dollar is likely how much it'll auction for since anything above about 55 makes the item pointless).

P-edit: Well that answers that.

[Mehdi2277]

Why greygnarl?

As for greyice he didn't just replace out of this game nor do I think he'd replace it just because he was scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Since ignoring the paranoia bois are almost definitely town already so trusting them now and listening to them is good (trusting doesn't mean blindly sheep though). Grey do you generally yell a bit as town?

[Mehdi2277]

Meta links? I thought you did anyway but that should explain matt's current issue with you.

[Mehdi2277]

Openness. That is the reason why I've thought tazaro was town.

Pitty I will only neighborize the player who buys the neighborizer tonight. That way when they neighborize they can just add to that qt making one big qt (the reason eid is going to neighborize me is I'll be a center of the two neighborhoods). Considering scum wanted it they'll also bid on it so the person has to have money. I also want them to be a town read so that talking to them is more enjoyable/useful.

Stephan
SlumberPartyBois
Salamence
Tammy
Peregrine
greygnarl

That is the list of people who got money and likely have the most. One of them should buy the neighborizer and be neighborized by me. Preference is SDB or Sala personally (greygnarl as well, but he's shown desire to buy the nk as well).

Why do you want me to neighborize you?

Mentioned before, but I want everyone's opinions on a money claim now. Every single pr has been claimed except the nk (which I doubt will ever be claimed) so outing money won't reveal power. Outing money makes organizing plans easier. I see no big con so I want to mass claim money (I'll make a table for it). This includes how you used every dollar you've had.

[Mehdi2277]

I wouldn't mind as long as you buy neighborizer. But I also want to hear your opinion on money claiming. If it's a good thing getting claims as quick as possible is good.

Here's mine:

Start with 100.
Bid 75 for neighborizer and won for 58.
Bid 25 on cop and lost 3 dollars for losing the bid.
I next got 100.
Then transferred all 139 to GB.
Currently have 0 dollars.

[Mehdi2277]

Disadvantage being? And sala looks to be more of the standard money wise if you're going with that (since he's fine with getting the neighborizer).

[Mehdi2277]

Well if elmo's town even if he dies transaction still takes place. If he's scum unless he planned to be lynched he likely sent some money anyway to not be busted by lack of transfer (or a partner covered his transaction for him).

Sean, money amounts aren't invisible at this point anyway. Every role except nk has been claimed. I could work through based on claims alone and figure out a person's money (assuming they're town) without investing and with (which would get a range of around 40 percent). About half of the game has claimed money already.

[Mehdi2277]

Stefan, tammy, me, and bb have all claimed money (well bb hasn't claimed exact, but considering his role his money isn't hard to guess since he wasn't buying anything last night). That's about half of your town half (with GB dead too).

[Mehdi2277]

It makes actual bidding by exact amounts possible. Currently for obvious reasons the person with the most money needs to bid on nk. The second most needs to bid on neighborizer (although a bit below isn't as big a problem for neighborizer).

And you're making it sound like it's impossible to figure out a player's amount of money (assuming they don't have strange mechanics). I already know the two powers you bought and the amount that cost. Estimating can give on average a 20 percent range of what any person could have as town.

And bois what do you think about sean's report? Molla I'm tempted to say should save his shot for tomorrow and then shoot sean after giving a second report.

[Mehdi2277]

I can see some, but it necessitates two things. First that he has an idea of who has money. Second a maximum of two of his scum partners could be transferring elsewhere or it would cost him too much. If you think the list people who transferred is mostly town then maybe, but beyond that he was transparent, willing to change and strengthen the plan and didn't just force it but discussed it.

Like sean said he's obv town and paranoia is bad.

Molla what was enough for you to shoot grey (over people who everyone wants to lynch so the sooner they die the better)?

I trust SDB.

[Mehdi2277]

He said he plans to kill you.

[Mehdi2277]

Molla what was enough for you to shoot grey (over people who everyone wants to lynch so the sooner they die the better)?

[Mehdi2277]

I agree with tammy. But yeah he sounded serious on the kill.

[Mehdi2277]

Molla so still plan to shoot? He made that post three minutes after I said you're serious on the shot. He didn't have time to write that from scratch and considering the wording it's pretty obvious he's been keeping notes on the game scum hunting.

[Mehdi2277]

Again considering he replaced out from multiple games at the same time frame it's not a reason to suspect him with.

[Mehdi2277]

Seanald shouldn't be lynched til day 3. Voided should also receive money instead of PV.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm one. With Gb dead and money more organized I don't mind getting some now.

Yes she site flaked. This isn't the only game she's flaked out of.

[Mehdi2277]

You named mainly the townier portion. Sean my pool of interest is eid, philla, tazaro, and sham. Sham looks most town of the four. Tazaro I'm just doubting some for gut.

[Mehdi2277]

First people you can think of are more likely to be town for content remembered so mentioning them is bad.

I still don't really trust PV too much, although he's not in that first pool.

[Mehdi2277]

Grey to sala makes little sense when grey's notes appearing that quick trump sala's general play.

PV to sala.
Pitty to grey.
Rest of the table works (which leaves VM on invest duty I think).

So how does that do for transfers?

[Mehdi2277]

Being a town read always makes games relaxing. Only thing I'm against is voided not recieving money from anyone (and I think we have too many town reads). PV to voided with voided buying vote nullifier would be an easy fix.

[Mehdi2277]

He has 0 money right now after transferring all of it. I think someone who's close to confirmed town (well confirmed to have protected GB or he couldn't have possibly known his being role blocked) should have more then that.

[Mehdi2277]

It means he'll make him look town or mafia (it's framer + godfatherizer for 1 night combined). So do not target him with your cop (I gave my list of cop target ideas a few pages ago).

[Mehdi2277]

cfj either you act like the most obv town ever and provide a scum read with enough reason to consider swapping or the wagon will kill you.

[Mehdi2277]

cfj you realize my action transfer wise ended up having 0 positive effect to scum if I was one? How is losing all my money as scum a good thing? Or the fact I'm a neighborizer and had planned to target GB way before the plan originated and I already explained me giving money to him.

Although the main one is the rest of my play.

You also broke the plan (plan was donate all). Although I don't see a reason for elmo scum to leave 8 dollars either (it's not going to win anything and makes it shown he broke the transfers plan).

BB's role while plausibly scum his actions and words do not fit. Trying to get reads by doing reaction tests with the kill that can get better quick reads then other things and shooting someone who's scum instead of letting a lynch be wasted and claiming all fit town.

[Mehdi2277]

It's also town tell. I think a scum team would go over how much they're actually sending and to send 142 instead makes little sense (I don't scum motivation in keeping 8 by mistake there).

UNVOTE: cfj

VOTE: Sham Two players worth of lurking kills a slot.

[Mehdi2277]

Except I'm kind of the only one who could break the plan (unless you think someone like guille could just break it and be fine) and role wise doing it since I would have talked to GB and been able to still know what's happening to my money is a bit different then giving him full control of it.

Honestly just being stubborn on this though.

[Mehdi2277]

cfj nero should neighborize me to make the neighborize chain (I plan to neighborize tammy who'll be the next neighborizer). You haven't reached that part yet but what do you think on it?

P-edit: Cop had a bid of 1 I think for the first two parts of the night. It wasn't until near the end a second person even bidded (doc wasn't bid on at all until the end of the night). Only powers that were bid on early I think were neighborizer, II, and rb (maybe double voter and gov too).

[Mehdi2277]

Answering a previous comment, GB was also obvtown day 1. I treat obv town like confirmed town until shown other wise.

I've played with sean and think he's more likely town then scum. At the same time PoE helps. So far voided is near confirmed town, bois are pretty town, you're strange money thing is very town, grey's quick notes are extremely town, etc (too many town reads).

[Mehdi2277]

I pretty much go with the opposite ideal (I treat it like a masonizer to make it like a town hydra that just works and cooperates better). Chaining is pretty much so everything is shared. We have two neighborizer shots and want to use them quickly. It's not really possible to make one big neighborhood this night but chaining them and just sharing info works.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm the center of all chains (and there will only be two since I can't make one qt for the things now). So if I'm scum I can hide stuff from half the chain otherwise everything will be shared (so it's question of do you trust me).

I don't trust pV much and have said so before (he's a weaker read).

[Mehdi2277]

So chains should go

Nero <-> Mehdi and
Mehdi <-> Tammy and two future people added in

Mod: Can posts in a qt be quoted and posted in another qt or posted in thread?

If yes I can just quote all posts in one qt and put them in the other and vice versa.

[Mehdi2277]

And who are you voting? Pitty still doesn't make much sense for scum since her comment could have convicted her unless she had the town pm at the time she made the first comment on it.

Tammy I like the vote tags.:p

[Mehdi2277]

I think sean has become the lazy out and scum read for a lot of people when the original reasons I argued against and since then there hasn't been more there really (problem is his death clears two people if he gets two innocents which makes it a worthy death later but earlier on that wasn't true at all).

Another problem with his reads is bois is scum yet he's barely pushed him. If you think a universal town read is scum and very weakly push him then you aren't trying to get them lynched at all.

Sham/Pv/philla are all currently acceptable lynches (sham is best though for lurking).

P-edit: Guille is town if sean is town (innocent result). Stefan created the wagon and reasons to lynch moi easily (and bussing a great scum player is doubtful). Pitty mentioned in my last post. Meh on tazaro. Philla mentioned here and sean here. That deals with your list (I also think pv has been lurking some).

[Mehdi2277]

I think the worst thing for sean is actually guille being town. I have never seen town guille lurk this much. He barely exists and mainly showed up for set up spec.

[Mehdi2277]

How did tazaro break plan? He was supposed to either give to me or advertise and you were doing that more at the time. I explained my plan break.

[Mehdi2277]

Tazaro explain how you win auction cop when neighborizer won.

Voided is almost definitely town. He's confirmed to have protected GB (it's nearly impossible to know being RB other wise). I'll assume his claim is true.

I expected GB to be protected (he was the obvious protection to me). And neighborizing him would also let me see what happens with the money I transferred.

PV I repeatedly said I had something I specifically wanted to do. Originally I was supposed to be given money but rejected it. I think it was obvious I wasn't planning to do something normal. Complaining about it now when I made obvious there was something I wanted to do is weak.

[Mehdi2277]

Also why say before I'm changing my vote? Feels like you're just giving yourself an easy out and want to try to see if you can get an fos based just on my plan break.

[Mehdi2277]

Yes but you're still saying it as if you can just unvote me if the response seems decent like their's a lack of conviction with your vote then.

Asking things already answered is also dumb. Voided said why he didn't claim pages ago when matt asked.

I explained the neighborize thing. I trust GB. I want to be neighbors with him to discuss things with him. Giving money to a person I can discuss with beats giving money I won't know what happens to it.

I know slumber claimed RB so read that again.

Sala I know I had a town read on Moi. Point being?

And I forgot auction cop was a role itself.

[Mehdi2277]

I think we can just call VM confirmed town. When someone's 90 percent confirmed town it's close enough to treat it like confirmed town.

[Mehdi2277]

Love to white knight. That's the only main thing and I do defend a lot as town (difference being my town reads are more accurate as scum). Hyper as both town and scum. Over defensive as both (and have been lynched as town once partly for being over defensive). Use to fence sit as scum more, but have gotten out of that.

Honestly meta wise I'm close to the same and since I love meta I try to be as close to the same as possible.

[Mehdi2277]

Oh lastly me bussing or not depends entirely on the game really. I've hard bussed and I've also hard defended my partners.

[Mehdi2277]

Not really. Voided is fairly clear so suspecting me on it isn't something I'd do. My loss reaction was the meh in my first post of the day.

PV point of plans is to help the town. I knew what I was doing and hinted I was doing something the day before. Complain to me day 1 where I repeatedly said I didn't want to receive money or bid on anything. Complaining to me now when I'd showed desire of doing something different is dumb.

Yes it lacks conviction when you leave an out from the start. If you actually changed by response and flowed out that'd have worked better, but just saying my scum read depends on his response to this specific thing is weak.