Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[Zdenek]

Hi. I'll get to this tonight.

[Zdenek]

Hi thread. I see you are open. I'll catchup today.

[Zdenek]

The first 30 pages:

Welp, Strider rolled vanilla townie.

why would you post this
I would vote for you right now if 1) it weren't the pregame and 2) I weren't planning on voting for the Mod and the Co-Mod to see if they are in any way participants in the game (e.g. Gorrad is Andrew Hussie/Lord English/whatever)

Oh dear lord, you are not going to vote someone you think is scum because you were planning to vote for the mod - hi, I'm not going to be aggressive because I was planning to be not aggressive.

Epic, I don't know what you are doing or why you are doing it but it would be mighty fine if you could not do it.

Why are you intervening on behalf of Alduskkel?

Hmm, this game might actually be partially broken depending on how the mod distributed roles/alignments, but I'll whistle innocently the other way and ignore it.

I like your mind set, but come on.

i find good mans and bad mans

VOTE: Alduskkel

So Torg could hide behind his post restriction but he's not, so that's a plus.

"I have a made-up post restriction where I always make a bunch of worthless posts in a row."

FTFY

Well, comb. enig. has a slightly lower chance of being scum with Pardorica, Malpa too, for the bullshit ^ post.

god confirmation phase is boring
i want to vote people, shit

Gah this is actually pretty bad

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Vifam's vote/unvote/vote on different people, shows trying to scumhunt, so that's a plus.

And yeah, I'd have to agree that they managed to seem the scummiest during confirmation. Though I'm not sure if Phil is worse than Nacho.

So you have two scum reads, and you don't vote either?

I'd just like to see Noir make a content-ful post.

VOTE: Noir

EBWOP: I've got my eye on Nacho because of that, and it is pretty fake, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

It might be worth seeing how this develops.

If it feels so fake, then why aren't people voting me for it?
You're voting Noir because you want him to make a post with content even though it's pretty early Day 1, and Vifam is voting someone else because he was told to.
Don't back down from your suspicions.

Okay, this post looks town. Consider my suspicion of you retracted.

That post is pretty much null. What make you think it looks townish?

it's not that post in particular his posts are just overly vehement. feels like he's putting on a show of being aggressive.

I agree with this because most of it came during conf. stage.

arthur you're fucking dumb if you continue this argument

Titan's a little less likely to be to batter witch aligned.

xtoph's 262 is a massive waste of time, and his vifam vote is stupid.

torg 270 - he's a little less likely to be batter witch due to his response to Paschendale's stupid case and vote.

Robocopter's self-vote is horrible, and considering that it came just after Paschendale's stupid case, and he avoided commenting on that, and could easily have been trying to distract from it, he goes on the scum-list.

xtoph - 275 is him defending himself and he ignores the goings on in the thread. 284 - it's how I talk nonsense.

Combatenigma and nacho voting for Noir and calling each other scum is pretty scummy. Noir hasn't even started the game, so I dont know how they expect him to step up his game.

Defending Noir.

I like perfavors opinion on xtoph. 337

Alsark is pointing out confirmed Town (no matter how illogically), which is something that helps scum more than town.

If it's illogical, he's not confirmed, so this is really bs attempt to paint someone as scummy.

339 makes perfavor read as town to me.

Noir cross-votes with Comb. enig. Another thing to keep track of, 378 makes me think maybe not bussing.

Zeta votes pasch in 395 without giving a reason.

In fact a little wagon Comb. Enig get's going.

Gut tells me that CheeryDog's not Pandorica aligned.

Malpa votes for Pandorica.

I like the stuff that S&R chooses to comment on in 435.

I can't really tell if Malpa really thought Pandorica is scum in their further interactions or if he's pushing bs argument (at the time) too hard.

Based on the exchange between Noir and Pandorica around 455, I'd be hesitant to string up Cheery Dog. At this point he's done little to warrant that much attention.

512 - hurts my town read on perfav

Hmm ok.

Unvote: Vifam

Vote: Cheery Dog

Vote: DeasVail

you suck zen

This makes no sense considering you were voting Cheery at the time.

I'm pretty torn on perfav after this, the cognitive dissonance in their attack on Deas for voting Cheery is clear. On the other hand, I have really mixed feelings about scum claiming vig so early. On the other hand, they really over did it.

530 gets malpa on the town list.

zeta kept pushing Paschendale in 540

numberQ's 552 was really underwhelming.

I have mixed feelings about Phil's reads list, but it shows effort, so for now, ok. Also fourth reactions to people attacking him seem ok.

Did Wutloski ever talk about Paschendale early? I'll have to check this eventually.

I like BT's 575.
GNR's 579 is horrible, and he die.

I'll need to look into Epic's suspicion of Titan.

Paschende votes deas.

There's is almost no chance that Malpa is Batterwitch aligned.

By 671 and Robocopter still not talking about Paschendale, I really want him dead.

I'll need to come back to posts around 700. I've got town reads on Titan and Vifam, but they're sort of defending Paschendale here, which could be an issue. At the moment, I still don't see Titan as Pandorica aligned, and they didn't push Malpa too hard, so it's probably irrelevant.

Reads:

Town (these are pretty much gut/ because of their reactions to certain things, which is semi-irrelevant in multiscum, but it's good enough for me for now):

Nacho's deasvail vote is horrible.

Comb's 741 is ok, I don't really see him as scum with Noir agreeing that his Noir vote was bad.

Titan
Torg
Vifam
Deasvail
Sunshine and Rainbows
Malpa
Nikanor
Phil
BT

Town because of scum interactions (which might be a really shitty reason to think someone is town, depending on your point of view):

Cheery Dog
Comb. Enig.

Scum:
Alduskkel
xtoph
Robocopter
numberQ
GNR
nacho

[Zdenek]

The most recent ~30 pages:

Buldermar's scum-claim: basically he can die anytime for it. The timing was terrible, and it distracted from the Paschendale lynch.

Noir goes back to Comb. Enig. this looks more like laziness with finding new "scum reads" than bussing.

Perfav's 851 brings him back to townie

ActionDan: 881 - I don't get the impression that he is trying to protect Paschendale as his buddy.

883 - I really hate how Titan is pushing Malpa as scum.

I still want xtoph dead after his 958.

Maenara could easily be scum.

Epic's suspicion of Titan and his death last night worries me a bit, but I'm going to forget about it for now.

You unvote him for bad grammer.

This interpretation of what was going on is shocking.

I'm concerned with Naho protecting Tazaro

Maenara's 1168- I hate that she's telling us that she warned us about Noir, I don't understand her point about Deas trying to force a town read on him, I hate her comment about lurkers and herserf, I don't care for her defense of Taz.

In light of the flips, Maenara's ActionDan vote probably means she's not The Batterwich aligned, since she's neither bussing nor trying to save Taz.

Same thing with Titan's AVox vote; although, I still have a town read on that slot.

I want a Tazaro wagon, and I can't read 30 players and stay sane. I'm tunnelling heavily.

Deliberately maintaining a narrow focus in a multiscum game anyone?

End of day 1. That was a lot easier.

I like ActionDan's 1434.

Vote: Cheery Dog

will probably sheep fate when he votes, but the dog is still scum

What are your opinions of his interactions with the flipped scum, and what they had to say about him?

Alsark was acting real weird before he replaced out

Since he didn't post for a week before he replaced out, this looks contrived.

Vote: Sunshine and Rainbows

Why? Was it just for their comment about Nacho's rhetoric?

I feel like voting Sunshine and clownfuck because I suspect he's the reason this game is 60 pages

BUT

Zdenek activated my TRAP CARD

VOTE: ZDENEK

Very cute.

Alsark is town

Loo loo loo, I've got some apples . . .

Zdnek's only post in this game looks like a scum trying too hard to be town look mom im scumhunting

This is vague garbage. What do you have a problem with?

And now I may be able to see this too. Thanks a bunch.

You too.

Zdenek probably isn't lime-green. Unless he faked a non-limegreen slip.

Well, ok.

look at his post and ask yourself his intention to post half of the things he did, he literally makes stupid comments about who voted who but doesn't follow up on it

What the fuck is this? I'm working to get through the thread. I'll follow up on things once I manage to read it through once and some sort of read on people, what needs to be questioned.

Now, what is this half of what I said do you have a problem with, what are the stupid comments and tell me, what intention are you ascribing to what I did because what I see from you here is mudslinging drivel.



Town:

Titan - at least I very strongly doubt they are pandorica aligned.
Torg
Vifam
Deasvail
Sunshine and Rainbows
Malpa
Nikanor
Phil
BT
Perfavot
ActionDan

Town because of scum interactions (which might be a really shitty reason to think someone is town, depending on your point of view):

Cheery Dog
Comb. Enig.

Scum:
Alduskkel
xtoph
Robocopter
numberQ
GNR
nacho
bulermar
maenara, but probably not Batterwitch aligned.
AVox

pedit. Oh dear, I'll read xtoph's post later.

[Zdenek]

Since xtoph asked so nicely,

NOTE: This post is designed to be Post #953, but based on activity there are probably going to be ninjas all around me. I haven't read their posts.

There is too much one-lining in this thread that I can't discern a coherent thing on my phone. When I am home I might try to make a no-crap version of the thread and let you know what I think. For now you get a bunch of notes from my readthrough.

Complaining about the posting and excusing himself from making a crappy post.

Re: buldermar's claim

The person who claimed scum (too many names all at once right now) claimed to be reaction-testing? Then "unclaimed" (whichever person made this a thing that happened or anything is completely confused) and deduced that DeasVail (or the other one?) is probably scum for what he did.
As someone else said, Town gambits are really terrible, no matter what they are. I think this one is especially bad because the public reactions to a scum claim are no different coming from Town or from Scum. Town thinks

What the hell is he doing

while scum thinks

What the hell is he doing he's not in my scumteam

(leaving out the last part in thread of course). Plus all this was within the span of like 15 minutes anyway. No good or accurate anything goes for 15 minutes.
Also: It's ironic that using a different colour makes it easier for us to see which parts of the game to ignore. Actually, could you all just post useless stuff in red? That'd be really nice

Fluff, no comment on anyone's alignment.

Re: Phillamon and his reads

I liked Phillamon's (???) reads list. It means he's actually putting effort into the game! People mentioned he could be just parroting and it's of course a possibility. Just another thing to be wary of, but until there's some evidence that he's probably not trying all that hard (or trying to sabotage things) he's good with me.

He gives a positive read on Phil, for pretty mediocre reason, that Phil put effort into making a reads list, where he might have just been parroting others, and makes sure to comment that he may change his read at some point in time.

Re: Cheery Dog and

his

list of... reads...

Cheery Dog posted a list of nulls? That's all well and good but I think I would like to see where all the other people sit (i.e. the people who are leaning town/leaning scum). Posting null reads is a very safe bet - there is no evidence to post as to why they are null... Because the reason they're null is that there are no tells in their posts. If Cheery Dog could maybe give us something more substantial that people could actually comment on please?
Added later note: Posting null reads is also safe because it's something that everyone will agree with. Getting people to start being comfortable with agreeing with you is another thing you are kind of doing.

Sure ok, this is mostly probably somewhat true, but he doesn't tell us anything about what he thinks of Cheery Dog.

Re: torgonitoh / wutlolski

And I reckon that if torgonitoh ends up being scum and surviving to endgame and winning... I won't even be mad. I'll probably keep on reading this game until he's gone even if I'm dead. As long as he keeps using unique and recognisable names

That's nice.

Re: Paschendale's replacement

Oh yeah also I forgot about Paschendale. I reckon that's a natural town reaction... For like the first few games. Being around for so long and still acting like this is just wrong. But I don't know if it's a towntell or scumtell or even a tell at all. Plus I really don't like when replacements come in to animosity and a million votes.

That's a natural town reaction . . . I don't know if it's a town-tell. You think he's town. Why do you feel the need to tell us that you don't know if what he's doing is some sort of tell? Were you trying to get people to unvote Taz? If not, why say that you don't like it when replacements come into animosity and votes?

Re: Porfervor's gun (and everyone else's, too)

More notes I keep remembering:
Porfervor needs to stop talking about this gun. I don't really know when exactly he claimed to have a gun, but since then his posts have been all about that and I don't know if it's funny enough to warrant not being helpful.
And speaking of this, two things:
1. Can everyone please stop speaking to everyone like "you deserve to be shot/lynched" or just "Die."? I mean firstly it sounds terrible, but you're also subconsciously giving yourself the idea that you are 100% correct and jumping to saying these things makes it harder for you to see other arguments/reason.
2. Everyone needs to stop

assuming

there is a Vig. There are other ways to balance a large game and keep it at a good pace. There doesn't need to be a vig, let alone a dayvig. Unless there's been a serious claim that I have missed, it'd be great to not be reading all these assumption posts

That's what I've remembered about what I thought reading through the second half of the thread. On a preview it's ridiculously long so I'll throw some headings on there do you can jump to stuff you think is important / stuff that has to do with you. Have fun probably continuing arguing, I need to rest :/

A nice etiquette lesson and more fluff.

[Zdenek]

Against Faraday, who was also Lord English aligned?

Indeed.
Why did you think he was scum?

That said, the Noir - Cheery Dog connection seems plausible when laid out like that.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek is also a possible scum candidate for the light greens, but malpascp must die first.

Why do you think I am scum?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek is also a possible scum candidate for the light greens, but malpascp must die first.

Why do you think I am scum?

why the fuck do you care

should i respond to your attack back to me or did you just AtE like a bitch

I asked because I want an answer.

You should respond you dumb fuck.

[Zdenek]

One thing that I don't like about Malpa is his asking for the modkill on Buldermar. The only time I think I have ever done this was to a scum buddy because it feels like really safe distancing as scum.

[Zdenek]

YOU DUMB FUCK
YOU PIECE OF SHIT
DUMB FUCK EATER SHIT PIECE
IM SO MAD RIGHT NOW

You call me a bitch and you expect me to respond politely to you?
lol no.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek is also a possible scum candidate for the light greens, but malpascp must die first.

Why do you think I am scum?

Post by post catchups are a classic scum tactic designed to show that you are supposedly attempting to scumhunt and work productively. They're the closest scum can get to a townie stream-of-consciousness style post, because they show the reasoning behind your reads.

However the reasoning is so weak, and the very nature of a chronological review means that scum can get away with making individual judgements on parts of the whole, and then literally adding the scumpoints and townpoints up to give an overall conclusion of the person's alignment.

Seriously?

I've never actually checked, but I am about 90% sure that catching up is not a scum-tell, and that it is a play-style thing.

[Zdenek]

One thing that I don't like about Malpa is his asking for the modkill on Buldermar. The only time I think I have ever done this was to a scum buddy because it feels like really safe distancing as scum.

Do you realise how weak this is?

You're using meta where two players are both scum on two players who have both not flipped.

Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it bothers me. It also fits with my view that buldermar's scum claim could have been to protect Paschendale by distracting from his lynch. The timing of it was weird because there were other things to talk about, but he chose to be obnoxious.

[Zdenek]

What the fuck is this? I'm working to get through the thread. I'll follow up on things once I manage to read it through once and some sort of read on people, what needs to be questioned.

Now, what is this half of what I said do you have a problem with, what are the stupid comments and tell me, what intention are you ascribing to what I did because what I see from you here is mudslinging drivel.

you make it sound like a big deal then what you make it, it wasn;t just mudslinging drivel you literally dont have conclusions in your post and you were commenting on inane shit which i dont expect you to follow up on it came off to me as noob scum trying too hard to be town because frankly you didnt need to let me know your reads up until that point

what is your purpose behind the questions you are asking and what are you looking for out of them

i mean this in a way that affects your read on a slot that you referred them to

If it wasn't mudslinging drivel, then what did you have a problem with? You said it was half of what I had to say, so it should be easy for you to find examples. Stating reads *is* stating conclusions. Giving reads is a positive thing. Frankly, your whole line of attack here is reads like reaching bs, you complain that I don't arrive at conclusions, you complain that I gave reads. It's fucking stupid.

I'm not explaining my purposes to you now. I can, but later.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek: The fact that weak reasoning 'bothers you' indicates, in my opinion, that you are scum who cannot provide strong reasoning of your own.

I've ascribed scum motivations to posting a post by post catch up. If you can provide town motivations, I'd be surprised. I agree that it could be a playstyle thing in some cases, but the overwhelming scum motivation to do it makes me think that players for whom it isn't a playstyle thing who do it are more likely to be scum. So it's rather telling that you say you're 90% sure it's a playstyle thing but then don't refer to your own playstyle, or give examples of you doing it in the past, which are both things I would have done were I town and having my reasoning used against me.

I'm pretty sure that your first sentence is worded incorrectly.

The town motivations are obvious. Reading the thread is helpful for scumhunting. Especially after there's been two flipped scum. Trying to suggest otherwise is bizarre.

Here are the games I've replaced into.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16798
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18106
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18910
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19022
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22388
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22099
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23120

[Zdenek]

Zeta, first of all, in the games I provided, in Popularity Mafia there were so few players left that I was able to reasonably condense my thought in thread down to just the relevant things about each of the players, in this game, which is what I usually do, but in this game I don't think that would have made sense. In There Will Be Bloodshed, the same thing. In Neruzian era mafia, I did do a post by post analysis, just with no explanations of what I found townie or scummy. As scum in Small Town Scumbags I didn't do anything of the sort. As town in adjective pick, I broke things down by player. As scum in Purified Mafia, I broke things down by player. The other two are on going so, I won't discuss what I did in either of them, but suffice it to say, that your assertion that I have never done a post by post catch-up before is false, and that you should probably look beyond my first post of each game. I think that your failure to actually consider the circumstances under which I replaced in and actually consider the posts reads at best as lazy and thoughtless. Yes, it's true that I usually break things down player by player, but in this game there was no way I was going to do that.

All that said, Zeta, there was and is no way that I am going to provide self-meta unless asked. It's worthless. The fact that you are trying to paint me as scummy, for not providing links 'quickly' is completely silly, and yes I had no intention of providing them.

I don't believe that Zeta believes in his argument that scum provide catch-up posts because the same reasoning that his using here can be ascribed to Nacho's 1290: his official re-read, but Zeta didn't say hide nor hare about that.

In other news, xtoph might not be scum. He's asking me to explain why I wanted him dead over a post, but he's doing it in such a way as to generate discussion, and while it's defensive, that aspect of it is underplayed in his post, and after I explained he didn't start nitpicking every little thing. On the other hand, I still find his lack of aggression scummy, but this is probably a lynch that can wait.

xtoph,

are you an alt?

Anyway, I am way more inclined to vote for Cheery Dog than Malpa, so this is a good place to start.

Vote: Cheery Dog

[Zdenek]

Later he finally votes a townie and tunnels on him aggressively.

This is part of Zeta's case on malpa - that he's tunneling on townie Buldermar.

I had not noticed buldemar's claim until very recently. Moreover, I try to focus on a small range of suspects per day.

But he hadn't noticed the claim, so where did his town read on Buldermar come from? Hint: nowhere, it's manufactured for the purposes of his case.

On top of that there is the deliberately narrowed focus in a multiscum game.

Vote: Zeta

[Zdenek]

Why are you not voting Maenara.

I only have one vote, I liked Nacho's interpretation of the Noir - Cheery Dog interactions; although, I still have mixed feelings about them, and I felt like getting a vote out there, so I thought Cheery Dog would place for it. I have found something better now.

Why would I need to consider either of those things?

Well, you don't need to, since you're scum, but town would because actually considering the circumstances under which posts are made and the content of player's posts are what matters.

Finally, I'm not trying to paint you as scummy for not providing links 'quickly'. Did you just steal that argument from Cheery Dog? That's funny. The reason I found you scummy was because you didn't provide links at all. When you're trying to say that post-by-post catchups are a playstyle thing for you, you save a lot of time by just providing the data that proves it instead of just asserting it.

I never said it was a play-style thing for me. On the other hand, it's absolutely true that I do usually sort my reads by player, but in a 26 player game, I just didn't feel like it.

I did not see Nacho's reread. Moreover, I try not to chase too many people in a day.

This is more of the deliberately narrowed focus in a multiscum game.

Also, I've presented him with something by all rights, considering his case on me, he should find scummy, but rather than offering an opinion on it, he just makes an excuse for not talking about it.

He's committing the Amished tell for his buddy.

More bullshit.

But it made you towntell pretty hard,

How did Zeta town-tell?

Ok, so Zeta's Quilford. I have something to say about this, but it involves an ongoing game, so I'll have to keep my mouth shut for now. Suffice it to say that he's a liar who needs rope.

[Zdenek]

i'm not actually analyzing zdenek's posts but since his vote is on zeta he probably doesn't have town's best interest in mind

Care to explain your read on Zeta?

Looking at the two top lynch candidates I think malscalp is more scummy. The scummiest thing I see about Avox is his very weak Tazaro push(that is non-existent Tazaro push). malpsacp is far more scummy as he has soft defended confirmed scum multiple times and never voted for buldemar who he was flipping out about for confirming scum(still have no idea wtf that is about).
VOTE: Maenara

Could you explain what you're getting at because a lot of things are wrong with this post.

saying that focusing on people (when declared) is scummy in this large of a game is just dumb (I honestly probably couldn't say all of your names right now).

I might have thought that too, until I saw it work. There's no real way for town to decide who to focus on. They basically just read the thread and respond to things/organize their thoughts/whatever, but Zeta is saying that he somehow decided to ignore Buldermar, without having any sort of read on him, to the point of ignoring his scum-claim which occupied a large part of yesterday. It makes absolutely no sense for him to do this, from the point of view of someone who is looking for scum.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think that zeta is town?

[Zdenek]

Oh yeah, I forgot Titan scumclaimed. Thanks for reminding me. He can go die after you.

Where?

[Zdenek]

I'm assuming he's referring to the game broken/cheated comment.

Well, that's not a scum-claim.

[Zdenek]

Zeta is town because he's making good points about malp. Generally seems on the ball arguing with you, though I don't think anyone has "won" the argument yet.

Well, okay, but since this is multiscum, it's not convincing at all.

obvscum

Unvote, Vote: malpscp

What are you doing?

Fancy how you join the wagon of someone you see as scum, Ald, and then neglect to comment on the wagonee having a post with another of your scumreads. One would think that prime commenting material.

Might you have another reason to not wish to get involved?

This attack is pathetic.

For all you zombies out there, this is why I think malpascp is scum. Both these posts are very soft defenses of a now confirmed scum.

The second is not really defense. Malpa is stating an opinion of Taz based on meta - that's he's always townish. It's more of a soft attack on Taz because he's suggesting that people take that into account when reading him.

If he was aware of his buddying he wouldn't have done it in the first place, town or scum. His stance on Buldermar is terrible too, too many posts to quote though, but the gist of it is he freaked out over buldermar's scum claim but didn't even vote for him

What? So you don't think that people in general buddy? 'Cause some do. What is this didn't even vote for him business?because that's clearly false.

BroodKing is inventing reasons to find malpa scummy.

[Zdenek]

Sunshine and Rainbows, your read on Zeta please.

Por said that he has a gun.

[Zdenek]

Yeah still think Zdenek is scum here

His catchup style is just bare minimum scum bullshit and half assed reads

Considering your catch-up, that's ridiculuous.

Sensitivity to specific scum alignments, more likely to come from scum than town. Yeah town do it too to try and process the game state but with Zdenek it just seems thrown out there and doesn't flow with the rest of his reads (aka he doesn't base MULTIPLE reads on scum interactions and just this one, like its common knowledge in hsi scum qt or something)

That is such bullshit.

Why are you asking me stupid questions?

It's not stupid at all. There's a reason for it.
Why not just answer?

[Zdenek]

Is your catchup more thorough than mine Zdenek?

Hell yeah

but that's exactly why its scummy as fuck.

I don't care about looking town, so I'm not going to go read 50 pages that I told quadz I wasn't just to be "caught up." As you can see I caught your scumass without reading but 1 post, so it really isn't necessary.

You're catchup posts are basically "hey look how many htings ive commented on and i have a full reads list and SHIT YEAH LOOK AT ME IM SO TOWN DONT HRT ME"

Fate, using the too-townie fallacy, for shame.

im probably shooting fate

Yee haw!

[Zdenek]

Why are you asking me stupid questions?

It's not stupid at all. There's a reason for it.
Why not just answer?

Why are you asking me what my read on the obvtown whose wagon I'm pushing is when it's plainly obvious to fucking everyone that he's town?

How in god's name is he obv. town?

[Zdenek]

this game is annoying. too many people thinking they're super cool self-evident master scumhunters and making minimalist posts barely explaining their cases which doesn't provide realistic pressure on their targets, doesn't persuade people to vote with them and only serves to make them hard to read.

Why are you asking me what my read on the obvtown whose wagon I'm pushing is when it's plainly obvious to fucking everyone that he's town?

Fucking hydras.

How is he obviously scum?

I didn't say that. You arguing on behalf of S&R / leaping to Zeta's defense does not sit well with me at all.

Vote: Broodking

As far as the whole Malpa thing goes. I think he's playing like scum - came under pressure and has mostly vanished since then and what he's had to say has been unhlepful, but he's also claimed V/LA, so I'm a bit unsure. I'll have to check at some point if he's the sort of player who goes to pieces when he comes under pressure as scum.

[Zdenek]

GNR was scum. shrimp85 is scum. No surprises there.

[Zdenek]

This seems more like OMGUS if anything.

You've never stated a read on me, so how is it OMGUS?

You voted for Zeta so you obviously thought he was scum. The way I asked the question was more to point out the irony on the matter. The truth is through, a good portion of your filter contains back and forth between you and Zeta, who thinks you are scum, yet in the end you can find only one post to justify a vote on him.

I was mainly voting him because of his garbage attack on me - that catch-up posts are scummy, followed up by his obviously failed examination of the games I provided as meta, and the fact that he tried to justify himself on the grounds that he doesn't need to consider the content of posts or the situations under which they are made in order to find them scummy. He continues to be scummy because he's now moved the goal posts on why he finds me scummy - at first it was the stuff above, but now it's mostly gut. But I'm bored with him, and now I want to get a better read on you.

why are you voting for me now?

Because I hacked your account and saw your role pm.

[Zdenek]

^Awkward jokes about "hacking his account n saw ur role pm" which are forced

So Fate's scum. Town Fate would have kept his mouth shut and let BroodKing respond.

OMGUS in terms of me disagreeing with you

You think that I think you're scum because you're disagreeing with me? What gave you that idea.

[Zdenek]

I really don't find xtoph's meta argument against malpa convincing at all. Yes, I'm definitely convinced that Malpa buddies with his scum buddies, but what he's done here is attack one, Pandorica, and then back off a bit. This is pretty standard getting into to game play, I think. Then he attacked Paschendale, and questioned the wagon on Taz. I can totally see how this looks like an interaction between buddies. However, what I am not seeing is the behavior xtoph pointed out - ignoring or buddying.

Xtoph

, why do you think that the meta argument is so incriminating?

About Malpa's claim. First of all, I really wished that he'd claimed properly, and I hate it when claims are strung out. Unfortunately, this is far from a thing that only scum does. As far as being a jailer goes. It's trackable, the role-blocking aspect is confirmable and it's powerful enough that even if he's scum, there's no way that the other scum team leaves him alive to endgame. I think he's a pretty bad lynch today.

Meh, thought on it and with all the vig curiousity well I'm one. And unlike some others I like my kill directed so I was debating claiming (treating it somewhat like a second lynch where I care on opinions of who to shoot, but still have control over it). I shot no one last night (hadn't read enough to shoot). Aradia 0_0. Minimal flavor which just deals with time powers that can be used to beat people and like for breaking things. Curious where cheery got all roles have flavor (sounded like he had long flavor) when mine was fairly short.

Titan I'd need more on avox to shoot him. Brood or cE I'm leaning towards (cE more since while scummy none of you want to lynch the super lurker so shooting him would work well).

First of all you shouldn't have claimed for a variety of reasons, for example, being blocked especially if your decided in thread target is on scum.

Kill who ever you want, but preferably shoot someone who's death will save us a mislynch or who's flip will give us some sort of information or both.

xtoph (look at that reaction to malp's claim).

What are you seeing?

Shrimp's 2097 - still not commenting on major wagons, still scum. Voting AVox, who's received quite a bit scrutiny in the thread, so it's a safe play. His reasoning is also reaching because on the one hand he's explaining that he can understand how difficult it is to participate in a game this size, and on other he's voting AVox for not doing this.

^Awkward jokes about "hacking his account n saw ur role pm" which are forced

So Fate's scum. Town Fate would have kept his mouth shut and let BroodKing respond.

OMGUS in terms of me disagreeing with you

You think that I think you're scum because you're disagreeing with me? What gave you that idea.

Because you are doing the same thing with Zeta, your first few posts on him were disagreements, then they blossomed into a scum read. Can you come up with motive behind why I would be pushing malpa or things I am saying wrong since my initial posting on malpa? It feels to me like you are digging to much into statements rather than the words in between them. Its true that scum have statements do have contradict, but if you can't find a motive it doesn't do much to convince anyone.

Even if this was true, it's ridiculous to assume that because once I had a disagreement with someone that blossomed into a scum read that it's going to happen every time. However, it's false because I didn't find Zeta scummy for disagreeing with me. I found him scummy for the things that he said during our argument.

Can I come up with a motive for pushing Malpa? Of course I can, there are fucking piles of possibilities.

What the fuck does digging into statements rather than the words in between them even mean? It looks to me like you are just posting nonsensical and meaning garbage that you think will sound good.

[Zdenek]

Sun and Rain,

what did you find scummy about xtoph's reaction to malpa's claim.

In this game, we agree that there are most likely at least four members of the Felt Mafia. With two of them dead, we have two unknown. If malpascp is also one of them, it leaves one final Felt member for malpascp to "ignore".
Overly obvious "buddying" was not the phrase I was looking for there. I was more talking about arguing on the other person's behalf (Mini 1196's 572 and 576). You can see this sort of thing in posts such as 731 (it's different but the inclusion of "weak" has the same idea to it) and 1204, from this game.
malpascp also likes to pay a lot of attention to scumbuddies (in that link, the person you're looking for is Bub Bidderskins). And malpascp spent a fair amount of time on players who we now know are scum. And of course, ends it with very non-committal conclusion(s).
And he does the same thing again. malpascp suddenly is talking about Paschendale/Tazaro (and again here).

Having read through this game, and Micros 1194 and 1196 (two of his scum games), I think that his play has a similar feel here to how he plays scum. And I have already stated what I think of meta.

I disagree with most of your conclusions here. First of all, I don't think that 731 was him arguing on another person's behalf. 1204 was him questioning votes on a wagon, which I think is one reasonable point against him, but that has nothing to do with meta, and it's a pretty weak point, since generally getting people to explain their votes is a positive thing. As far as playing attention to his buddied, he talked about Pandorica early, while he was voting him and then later, explaining what he was doing, and he spoke about Pasch mostly to call him scummy. It's a massive leap from Malpa pays attention to his buddies and Malpa paid attention to two scum in this game, to Malpa being scum. That sort of argument is ridiculous. Finally, looking over the games you provided, well except for the newbie one, malpa's scum play seems much more relaxed than he was here; I didn't see anything like his blow-up over buldermar's scum claim or the anger that he's expressed over being voted that he's shown here. Plus Nacho's provided meta of him overreacting to things as town, so to me his meta points to him being town.

Just because I don't want to join the bigger wagons, I'm scum?

Nope, it's because you didn't comment on them. Nice misrep though.

You're being vague, what do you find about Zeta in your argument. I only see disagreement in his response to you and at the very most I see a stubbornly wrong response. This is an important distinction because the way you scumhunt, that is looking for statements that are wrong, doesn't actually find scum, because being wrong is a null trait. If you think someone is wrong in their statement, then you obviously disagree with them. So I can conclude that you find scumminess in statements you think aren't correct.

"Digging into statements rather than the words in between them" means looking for motive in posts. I realize the statement's wording is really fucked though, so I understand how you could misunderstand. About the motive, do any of them make sense with how I am posting though? Sure I could make up a list of stuff about anybody about motive, but the list wouldn't make sense with how they are posting. I want you to give me a motive of why I would be pushing malpa or if you don't see a motive behind the push.

I was pretty explicit about what I think of Zeta, here look:

I don't believe that Zeta believes in his argument that scum provide catch-up posts because the same reasoning that his using here can be ascribed to Nacho's 1290: his official re-read, but Zeta didn't say hide nor hare about that.

Later he finally votes a townie and tunnels on him aggressively.

This is part of Zeta's case on malpa - that he's tunneling on townie Buldermar.

I had not noticed buldemar's claim until very recently. Moreover, I try to focus on a small range of suspects per day.

But he hadn't noticed the claim, so where did his town read on Buldermar come from? Hint: nowhere, it's manufactured for the purposes of his case.

On top of that there is the deliberately narrowed focus in a multiscum game.

Well, you don't need to, since you're scum, but town would because actually considering the circumstances under which posts are made and the content of player's posts are what matters.

which was in regards to:

I think that your failure to actually consider the circumstances under which I replaced in and actually consider the posts reads at best as lazy and thoughtless.

Why would I need to consider either of those things?

After I presented him with something that he should have found scummy, based on his argument against me:

Also, I've presented him with something by all rights, considering his case on me, he should find scummy, but rather than offering an opinion on it, he just makes an excuse for not talking about it.

As you should be able to see, I did not, think that he was scum over a disagreement. So what are you talking about?

One scum motive for pushing Malpa is fucking clear: a case has been made against him that's gained a lot of traction, so your vote on him won't be questioned, and it's a great way to blend in. Just for clarity, I'm not trying to argue that voting for Malpa is scummy, but BroodKing is trying to argue that there's no scum motivation in such a vote, which is just foolish.

[Zdenek]

Your first post is good, but the whole argument about him not taking into account the situation is a moot point. You say yourself he could be lazy and thoughtless, both traits that are null. That interaction itself seems more like a disagreement, because he is being stubborn and you have a good point. What is the thing that was Zeta-scummy that you did? Also, looking through your correspondence, again, I noticed you were misinterpreting the quickness of links post. Is that still a factor in your Zeta vote?

Last thing, you never answered the question I originally asked. I'm arguing that you have not find a motive in my posting. You said yourself that situations differ, how is my motivation different from say your motivation for voting malpa?

I said it was at best lazy and thoughtless, at worst it's scum clinging to stupid/false reasoning to push an argument. Are you even reading? Zeta-found me scummy for making a catch-up post. The links thing has to wait until after another game finishes for me to discuss it in a non-cryptic way. Finally, I don't think that you've ever actually asked me that, but since you seem to want it:
You defended Noir in 301, which has the possible scum motive of defending a buddy.
In 1728, 1733 you over justify your vote on Malpa which has the possible scum intent of making sure that your vote won't be questioned.\
In 1912 you jump to Zeta's defence and argue on behalf of S&R which could be jumping to the defense of buddy or defending town to try to look good/ to buddy.

[Zdenek]

Is it scum intent or just could be scum intent?

Could be, like practically everything in this game.

[Zdenek]

Theory is he's green scum correct? There's a pretty easy way to test his claim. I shoot him and he jailkeeps me. If he dies then he didn't jailkeep me. I doubt he's a roleblocker since green already has a dead role blocker (black roleblocker maybe but the case on him is associations with green scum). Not sure how likely an actual jailkeeper and a roleblocker are on the same team.

Nacho I actually find 2149 fairly comforting when it comes to Brood. Not original, but the line of thought he's pushing there I like.

So back to VOTE: cE. Cheery's grown more doable and mae is pushing me when I'm about the only person who trusts them is annoying and good at the same time.

I really think you should stop this. If you want to shoot Malpa, that's one thing, but the likelyhood of it working as an alternative to lynching him is minimal.

I must say that lynching someone other than malp in the hopes that he'll be NK'd is interesting. But I suspect that getting votes off of him will be really difficult (for some damn good reasons) and the urge to just lynch him anyway is pretty strong as well.

Random hypothetical: Mehdi is scum with malp. Mehdi fails to kill malp, "confirms" his claim.

I dunno, I feel like there's a good chance something could randomly go wrong with Mehdi's plan.

I dislike how you cast doubt on Mehdi for essentially no reason.

Do you guys actually think scum will bother with killing Malp in the first place?

Well, maybe not immediately, but scum can't afford to have a claimed jailer around in end game, when it can fuck with their kills/act as a weak cop.

[Zdenek]

BroodKing is probably scum and not a claimed jailer.

[Zdenek]

The reason for the Cheery wagon are the Noir interactions:

or at least take your vote off cheery dog since he has no other votes on him and is no worse than combinatorial or paschendale and vote paschendale instead since you called him bad. or vote combinatorial

actually cheery dog does look fucking terrible in light of mini 1368. it's like he hit his head or something

cheery dog you are so fucking bad

MAKE HER A MEMBER OF THE MIDNIGHT CREW

[Zdenek]

I'm not.

[Zdenek]

I'll also be up for a phill/avox/broodking/mae wagon.

Pedit: Booo zde c'mon we can make something beautiful!

I think that you're interactions case against vifam is pretty weak, and I've been generally reading him as town.

I think a BroodKing wagon would be fruitful.

[Zdenek]

So why AVox?

[Zdenek]

I see him as doing very little in general, which in this game puts him in my null, but willing to lynch list.

[Zdenek]

Yeah, looking things over, I see no reason for him to have changed his mind between those two posts.

Unvote
Vote AVox

[Zdenek]

Vifam how is that a contradiction? Liking someone's vote =/= liking them. If he's obviouslyscummy you could add more then two quotes that aren't even a contradiction.

It's not that it's a contradiction, it's that it makes no sense. He likes Noir's vote, but then says that he would have voted him.

malpascp, if you're still alive into Night 2, target Mehdi2277. Mehdi2277 claimed vigilante and he's going to shoot you. If your claim is true, you can stop the kill.

Just posting that since I think malpascp might only be skimming or something, and he hasn't said anything really about Mehdi's plan.

Also, I approve of the AVox wagon. Let's keep rolling with that.

Do you seriously believe that this plan is a good one, that's going to work?

Por does this feel likely:

Jailkeeper + 1 shot RB/Redirector + Jack of all trades + unknown (maybe + another unknown) doesn't look like a likely scum team to me.

Malpa to be a jailer and green scum makes it true (and if he's not green scum then for me the main part of the case was his interactions with green scum so the idea of him being green would fail).

I think this is an excellent point.

The reason for the Cheery wagon are the Noir interactions:

or at least take your vote off cheery dog since he has no other votes on him and is no worse than combinatorial or paschendale and vote paschendale instead since you called him bad. or vote combinatorial

actually cheery dog does look fucking terrible in light of mini 1368. it's like he hit his head or something

cheery dog you are so fucking bad

MAKE HER A MEMBER OF THE MIDNIGHT CREW

wow, that's all of one reason!

not to mention that it's noir interacting with cheery and not the other way around.

---

VOTE: AurorusVox

malpascp is coasting big time i think though, he should die next.

how the fuck did the malpa wagon fall apart fuck you all

*hug*

Now can we lynch the Obv. Scum Zeta

Unvote
Vote: Zeta

Mehdi's plan is dumb and probably won't work for all sorts of reasons.

Mapla's been V/LA and is a claimed power-role. The role-blocking part of it is confirmable. It's not a role that scum can leave alive in the late game. If he comes back from V/LA and continues to play this way, then I'll be fine with lynching him.

[Zdenek]

We are lynching Zdenek after this.

Just look at that last post if the reasons weren't there in EVERY POST HE MAKES by now.

If they're there, then why are you still asking for them.

[Zdenek]

I'm not asking for them? I'm saying you are scum and you keep reminding us of that fact every time you post.

Tell me what you are talking about then.

[Zdenek]

This is a really out of place comment considering you oppose the plan.

No, it's not. The plan is bad because of the possibility of role interactions at night. The good point is that the bulk of the case against Malp is based on the idea that he is Green Scum aligned, Green Scum probably don't have Pandorica's role and joat and a roleblocker and the role-blocking part of his role is confirmable. So if he is scum, he is unlikely to be Green Scum, which makes a lot of the case for him being scum really questionable.

You never voted Malp. This sounds like he was in consideration for a while or something, despite every second comment you make is "dude made a crappy malp argument", so you're just fitting with the crowd here.

Look, Malp's not playing like town, but he's also been V/LA. If he keeps doing what he's been doing when he get's back, then I'll be fine with his lynch, but as things are, I wouldn't vote him. On the other hand, I do believe that the vig-plan is so bad that people who want him dead should be voting him, and not relying on night actions.

[Zdenek]

Why can't he be Green Scum but not a RB/JK? Fair enough, though, I understand the context of "excellent point" now. But now I don't see why you're "fine with lynching him later" if this is such a good point.

Because he doesn't have to be green scum.

[Zdenek]

If he's lying about being a RB/JK, there's a decent chance that we'll figure that out eventually.

[Zdenek]

This is a prod-dodge, and indication that I am becoming increasingly fine with a malpa lynch because he's still doing nothing.

[Zdenek]

Maenara was scummy before this and her vote on Vifam was the icing on the cake.

[Zdenek]

V/LA until Monday

[Zdenek]

Prodded. I was V/LA. I should be able to read and post tomorrow.

[Zdenek]

You people made 26 pages. Well, this isn't getting read tonight. Mehdi, you're town, who should I vote for?

[Zdenek]

Vote: BroodKing

[Zdenek]

Vote: BroodKing

[Zdenek]

I'm totally willing to be accountable for my vote on BroodKing. Hell, I've been calling him scum for awhile now.

[Zdenek]

robocopper leave now, he badmans too

What does him replacing out have to do with is alignment?

Fate's push on Vifam is obnoxious.

Up to page 123.

[Zdenek]

Im fine with either, they are both scum. Ideally I want Maenara dead first, because he seems like a more competent player (more likely to be a scum PR).

What does competency have to do with being a PR?
Why did you think she was a PR?

If we took a poll I'd bet at least a majority of the town would have watched Porfevor.

I thought Perervor was joking.

Also add Zdenek to the pool.

That would be dumb.

Zdenek is still lurking but whatever.

I was V/LA.

I'm not too sure about this Sanjay wagon. The rapidity of the wagon formation is a bit disturbing, but I didn't feel that way with Maenara or AurorusVox (probably since I thought they were scum). I'll have to iso him to get a good read. I think maybe the town is a bit lynch-happy right now, for better or for worse.

Dunno if Sanjay's defense of Maenara is scum-buddying or town-sticking-up-for-another-town. I'll have to review the circumstances.

What are your reads of the people on the Sanjay wagon?

Busy weekend for me. Busy weekend for you guys too, I see.
I really really want to lynch Nacho and I feel like this town is on crazy pills for not seeing what I'm seeing.

The Avox wagon was good but I don't want to lynch now given the claim.

Vifam is town. Phillammon is town.

My suspicion of BT has diminished. I feel like his defense against my questioning D2 gave me a pretty townish vibe in a way that I hadn't really felt from BT before.

I don't know shit about Maenara but I feel like the wagon was more preditory than legit. Suspicious about Buldemarr and Nacho based on it.

A lot of you are vague as hell to read.

Did I miss any questions?

Sanjay is probably town after defending Vifam and Phillamon.

[Zdenek]

Unvote

I don't really know what to make of Broodking's claim, since I don't know the flavor, but I doubt that he's group scum.

Vote: Fate

This is a gut scum read based on who he is pushing and how he pushing them.

[Zdenek]

We aren't fucking lynching an un-cc'ed doc.

Brood is is going to flip town or third-party, and isn't a good lynch.

[Zdenek]

Third party is a bad lynch.

Care to talk us through that, Zdenek?

What part of the word "or" don't you understand?

[Zdenek]

So far his role would be the first truly complex one. And I think the info is pretty much made to allow false positives/negatives easily so it doesn't seem like as great a town role as it might sound. I'm treating it as null right now. And then play as scum so yeah i you have a scum feel he'd be a good place to vote.

Actually, I know something he could do that would be useful.

[Zdenek]

Aldus, who do you think is scum?

[Zdenek]

Mehdi, why do you think that scum fate doesn't push lynches hard?

[Zdenek]

Okay, so I don't want BroodKing lynched. What I do want is for BroodKing to target me tonight because that has a chance of being awesome.

We should also do this

Vote: DGB

because she inventing fake excusing to justify doing nothing.

[Zdenek]

I won't speculate on you're role (partly because I don't know the flavor nor do I plan to read homestuck right now), but how confident are you in brood being town?

I really don't think that he made up his role.
I think if he was group scum he'd have had help with his claim and done a better job of it.
I can't rule out the possibility that he is some sort of third-party.
So not too confident, but I don't care.

[Zdenek]

VOTE: Philla Going off brood doesn't equal going on to dgb currently.

Why Philla?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek do you actually have anything in your role that mentions a ring?

I'm not going to answer this now. I'll explain tomorrow, if necesssary, depending on the result.

I'd get off Brood if I knew you guys would lynch Fate already

Deal.

Unvote
Vote: Fate

I'm still pretty sure that Sanjay is town.
Brood is not to be lynched today.

[Zdenek]

Mae from town to mafia that needs death soon pretty quickly

Where did this happen?

[Zdenek]

I'm not seeing what you are seeing here.

[Zdenek]

He agreed with me in 2642 while I was defending mae. He votes her in the post right after and in 2679 sounds ready for her to be hammered.

Mae he was bread crumbing a innocent. Cops claim guilties or tunnel a lot more then that. How do I go from trusted yesterday after being unsure to not trusted?

Brood if I shot you I would also be voting cheery. So what exactly did it change? Honestly I just think one of the counter wagons was ideal and cheery was often mentioned as another suspect.

Isn't this is the post he was agreeing with?

[Zdenek]

Sure, but that's not really defending him. Anyway, I don't really care about Phillamon or have a strong read on him, but I'd rather not lynch him over a misunderstanding, which is what this looks like to me.

[Zdenek]

Mod: I'm going to have limited access for awhile, but I still should manage to get on every day or two.

I'll try to read this later today, but tomorrow at the latest.

[Zdenek]

Why?

[Zdenek]

I'm Peregrine Mendicant, I was a VT. I received the ring from Broodking last night. I now have two abilities. I don't see any reason to disclose them.
Preview edit:
I am untargetable at night, and I have a one shot ability where I can protect two people at night.

[Zdenek]

Why the fuck am I getting shot?

[Zdenek]

Yes

[Zdenek]

that was to Buni.

[Zdenek]

I'm busy reading, but I want to clarify something now. I have not used my one-shot protect. My abilities were activated immediately in the sense that I put the ring on last night and gained them, but that is all. I didn't have the option to not put on the ring, and I didn't have the option to protect anyone last night.

[Zdenek]

Zde why did you care as much to claim everything about getting shot if you're untargetable?

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[Zdenek]

You claimed when vifam said you'd be shot.

Well at the time, I assumed it was because people were suspicious of me, and there was something that I needed to clear up.

[Zdenek]

About the Mehdi-Meanara business, doesn't it make the most sense if Maenara is town with an added lyncher win-con?

[Zdenek]

When else am I supposed to figure it out? Seriously how else am I supposed to think my role pm is incorrect without finding out you claiming something different. And no the GF thing involves me scum while the cult thing I personally doubt and few people believe. I know I bother you for a reason I'll never understand since you're like the one person who's pushed me for a while, but can you not understand something basic like there's no way for me to just easily assume my role pm was wrong before this occurred.

So it was all a misunderstanding?

Fuck. Can someone closely involved with this explain what happened?

[Zdenek]

Well Mae thought I was scum for sure when I said she was a role she wasn't. Now that the part isn't part of my role anymore both of us being toan without any lyncher thing is possible.

So your role has changed in the middle of the game?

Preview edit:
Guess I don't need to finish reading today

Vote: AVox

[Zdenek]

Okay, so this basically confirms that Mehdi is scum.

[Zdenek]

Zde not sure what you read but the mod error thing has beenargued too.

Did the mod admit the mistake in the thread? To Meanara? Just to you?

[Zdenek]

How can we tell if av lies again. Zed gorrad/quadz said in thread they can't really answer on if there was an error or not.

So you're getting lynched. You've claimed BP-vig and you've had to say that your role pm has changed mid-game to account for something you've said. It's just a question of when we lynch you.

[Zdenek]

I will read and post tomorrow.

[Zdenek]

I haven't read yet, but with 18 alive, probably 3 group scum and an SK, I'd be ok with lynching Medhi. I guess I could see a Medhi-Mae small team, but I'd gamble on that by lynching Medhi.

[Zdenek]

Traveling home today, will be back to usual tomorrow.

[Zdenek]

I haven't read, but while I am here, what are you suggesting happened?

[Zdenek]

I'm pretty sure we should lynch Medhi, and I don't care if he's scum or sk at this point because he's not town.

[Zdenek]

I have not used it yet.

[Zdenek]

No.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Medhi

I've read. This is clearly the right move.

[Zdenek]

Vifam, did you clarify with the mod if you can self-protect?

[Zdenek]

If we test Vifam, I want Medhi to shoot Vifam and we lynch Aldus.

[Zdenek]

If we test Vifam, I want Medhi to shoot Vifam and we lynch Aldus.

????????

Vifam can self-target??

Have everyone gone nuts or is it me?

maybe? His claim suggested that he could.

[Zdenek]

I am reading. Vifam needs to clarify if he can self-protect.

[Zdenek]

First of all, Vifam should clarify if he can self-protect.
Second of all, if we really want to test Vifam's claim, that's fine, but then my vote is going on Alduskkel.
DV reads as town to me and I have little faith in the connections with flipped scum case that's been presented.
Torg read as town, but I'm less sure of him.

I'm really tired of trying to work stuff out, so could someone clarify the argument about Bumi being scum if Green scum doesn't have a roleblocker/JOAT with a role-block argument that I seemed to remember seeing somewhere.

Has Quilford ever said that he receives a message that his hat-giving was successful? I don't recall that he ever did.

[Zdenek]

I've seen scum neighbourizers before, so I don't get how that confirms Bumi as town.

[Zdenek]

Vifam, why did you not ask about this already? It came up long ago. It's important for a bunch of reasons that I might get into after you ask.

[Zdenek]

i have ald down as town though

why?

[Zdenek]

just feel his posts have been honest, after further consideration regarding the bp comment i think he's just posting whatever's on his mind without thinking too much about it

and you don't get this impression from DeasVail?

[Zdenek]

All we need is a guarantee that we're lynching DV/DW if DW/DV flips town.

Why does one of them have to be scum?

[Zdenek]

Great game. Thanks mods, and all.