Street Racers: New York (Game over!)

[PeregrineV]

Hello all! Replacing JohhnyF. May start reading tonight, but most likely tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, spent all weekend with my brother, so did no reading. Will catch up today & tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

I finished reading, and was doing OK until about halfway through in terms of player names and replacements.

I like Heather---> Jal for town and nhammen for town.

I would say BirdBeast is town, but some of the early thez voting stuff needs a second look.

njoseph/Taz- I feel like your town play comes across pretty clearly even if your posts look choppy. However, your play today is like

which is not the feeling I usually get from you. Why the woe-is-me instead of saying what you think?
Granted, you've done that a little more in the last few pages, but still lots of extra words to cover up what you are trying to say.

Bumi is kind of the opposite. Lots of tiny, nothing posts gave me an early scumread, then there was a wall or two, but they didn't seem actually informative, and posting has subsided back again.

[PeregrineV]

ISO on Sixx, since he's new to me.

@Sixx: Top 3 scumreads and why. Top 3 townreads and why. Post numbers/links welcome.

@NJoseph- Ummmmm, how so? And how is it enough to change your playstyle, since in the end it's still just you?

[PeregrineV]

And so it's recorded

Vote: Bumi

[PeregrineV]

@PV: Why is Nhammen town? He isn't doing very much. His posts are just picking out easy things to comment on from the thread and making walls out of them. I can't see any super town-looking thought that he has had. Hes like the 2nd star wars movie. All of his post are packaged and pretty and filmed on a green screen. It like hes filling in Mad libs: player:____________ is alignment:______________ because of common-tell:___________________. Player:__________________, what do you think of Player:_____________?

Am I wrong?

PV, what are your dream wagons right now if you could get them?

P-edit: Ok, good posting.

I'll go back and pick a few and explain why I like them. You may be right and maybe I'm just liking the conciseness and formatting of the posts.

Anyway, right now Bumi, Taz, and camo (but I know he was replaced, I'll have to check old/new side-by-side)

pedit: @Taz- but I'm used to seeing Town-Taz. What role are you taking on that you have to do the not-town-Taz thing?

[PeregrineV]

@PV: Why is Nhammen town? He isn't doing very much. His posts are just picking out easy things to comment on from the thread and making walls out of them. I can't see any super town-looking thought that he has had. Hes like the 2nd star wars movie. All of his post are packaged and pretty and filmed on a green screen. It like hes filling in Mad libs: player:____________ is alignment:______________ because of common-tell:___________________. Player:__________________, what do you think of Player:_____________?

Am I wrong?

PV, what are your dream wagons right now if you could get them?

P-edit: Ok, good posting.

I'll go back and pick a few and explain why I like them. You may be right and maybe I'm just liking the conciseness and formatting of the posts.

Anyway, right now Bumi, Taz, and camo (but I know he was replaced, I'll have to check old/new side-by-side)

pedit: @Taz- but I'm used to seeing Town-Taz. What role are you taking on that you have to do the not-town-Taz thing?

What the heck? A rolefish from you. For shame.

I feel like we are speaking two different languages. Are you doing this on purpose?

[PeregrineV]

[PeregrineV]

Monday post- sorry for the long weekend.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, was NJ ran up in your games with him?

As Taz, yes in American Dad mafia (scum) and Lemmings mafia (town) and Marketplace Mafia 2 (town)

Peregrine, do you know it's rolefishing to basically ask, "do you have a role?" ?

Not when your comparing yourself to Meryl Streep, an actress. I'm not talking about in-game, although you have been hinting at such for a while.

Pere, was NJ ran up in your games with him?

I was Taz when Peregrine played with me. I, as Taz, was mislynched for my play Day Two, I think, in Lemming(s?) Mafia in Completed Games of Coney Island Mini Themes.

As above- but not sure I've played with njoseph before, but I feel like I can read Taz posts easier.

[PeregrineV]

Meryl Streep has nothing to do with what my role is in this game--what do you mean by "although you have been hinting at such for a while", Peregrine?

No, literally all you do is say "yeah nice point" you don't make your own point and its not going to be any more helpful in later day phases with that play style.

UNVOTE: Darthe

VOTE: Njoseph

It's not fair to assume that I won't be more engaged as more information comes to the fray later.

@NJoseph- Ummmmm, how so? And how is it enough to change your playstyle, since in the end it's still just you?

I'm like Meryl Streep. If I try to assume a different character or name that forgets who the one name or character is, I AM different in some magical way almost.
I'm Meryl Streep the black hole.

[PeregrineV]

What does 768 hint at, and what hint am I dropping other than information about my style?

Well, you've talked about cop and watcher, and information to be gained later. Since everyone gains the information in the OP later no matter what, it seems like you are implying *MORE* information than everyone else.

And if your style is Meryl Streep, Meryl Streep is an actress. She doesn't play Meryl Streep in most movies, she plays roles other than herself.

Forget it. I feel like your being purposefully obtuse whenever I ask you about what you're saying or trying to say.

Vote: njoseph

[PeregrineV]

Yupp.

vote bumi

I AM A NEIGHBOR WITH BUMI AND SHE WAS CONSISTANTLY DETRACTING FROM THE SIXX LYNCH. LOOK AT THE ISO. BUMI IS SCUM.

Going to have to look at the VCs (hinthint mastin-Bird), but I thought Zitfe was a counterwagon to Sixx.

But until then, yes.

Vote: Bumi

[PeregrineV]

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): SlySly
Bumi (1): PeregrineV
njoseph (6): Aj The Epic, nhammen, thezmon221, curiouskarmadog, The Mini-Librarian,

Sixx

Sixx

(10): Albus Dumbledore, Parama, Nachomamma8, njoseph, killerjester, Edosurist, Darthe, Bumi, Ztife, Jal
The Mini-Librarian (1): Robert2424
Ztife (2): BirdAndBeast, jeck
Not voting (4): PMysterious, JacobSavage, ArcAngel9, Baby Spice

With

25

alive, it takes

13

players to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-01-13 00:00:00).

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): SlySly
Bumi (1): PeregrineV
njoseph (4): Aj The Epic, nhammen, thezmon221, The Mini-Librarian

Sixx

(6): Albus Dumbledore, Parama, killerjester, Darthe, Bumi, Ztife
The Mini-Librarian (1): Robert2424
Ztife (6): Nachomamma8, BirdAndBeast, jeck, Jal, Edosurist,

Sixx

Not voting (6): PMysterious, JacobSavage, ArcAngel9, Baby Spice, curiouskarmadog, njoseph

With

25

alive, it takes

13

players to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-01-13 00:00:00).

VOTE COUNT

Bumi (1): PeregrineV
njoseph (2): Aj The Epic, nhammen

Sixx

(6): Albus Dumbledore, killerjester, Darthe, Bumi, Ztife, Baby Spice
The Mini-Librarian (1): Robert2424
Ztife (11): Nachomamma8, BirdAndBeast, jeck, Jal, Edosurist,

Sixx

, thezmon221, The Mini-Librarian, njoseph, Parama, ArcAngel9
Not voting (4): PMysterious, JacobSavage, curiouskarmadog, SlySly

With

25

alive, it takes

13

players to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-01-13 00:00:00).

Counterwagons to Sixx look like NJoseph early (950) and shifting to Zitfe by 1052.

[PeregrineV]

Were starting to think Darthe could be scum. Not sure. Not willing to vote him right now though.

In light of claiming neighbor, I'd like to hear why.

[PeregrineV]

i have already voted.
SlySly is the Scum!!

While I generally agree, if you look at the Sixx modkill it pretty much clears SlySly. (1173, 1174) If you want to disagree and be taken seriously, then you pretty much have to explain that first.

@SlySly- Don't feel like Ztife softclaimed anything. He had some good town points early in his replacement, but latest posts + unseencamo make him viable.

@Ztife- Your scumlist went from Bird, Nacho, Darthe (based on activity), to Darthe, Parama, njoseph. You got any real reasons?

[PeregrineV]

Back from the weekend-will catch up later.

[PeregrineV]

Sure, you stated why you think the wagon is bad, but do you think Sixx is bad? And then you go and start shit with people and I can't even call half of that scumhunting, especially when almost all of your arguments have to do with your arrogance.

That is why I was questioning Sixx about what he posted. I spotted something bad, I questioned him on it. Parama scummily stepped up and answered for Sixx. He confirmed that there was a cop faction and told me to quit scum hunting.

So Sixx, are dangerous drivers scum in your mind?

1. Jailkeeper in a car setup = cop car, all cops do these days is look for bad drivers :V
2. SC provided fake role PMs for the scum because this is a SC game, stop looking in to it

Very shortly after the mod stepped in and showed me how bad Sixx was.

My response to Parama's above, was posted with the same time as the MK (1/7/2013 6:58).

-----

Thx, B&B

Then why not vote him?

Vote: Parama

[PeregrineV]

anyways
he's probably a mafia doctor
not with sixx
i guess i don't mind leaving him alive for a few days, for fun

If you think he's a mafia doctor from a second scum group, why leave him alive?

This!

[PeregrineV]

Which, since Zstife apparently is being left for dead, Vote:Darthe

Outing yourself as a neighbor was not smart, to say the least. It's a fairly decent role, given if you can recruit. I highly doubt you had ANY talk with Bumi to begin with. You came and said that Bumi was defending Bam, but Bumi tells that you don't have day talk. Then, never do you produce any place where Bumi is defending Bam, which makes you a liar in my eyes. I don't personally remember Bumi defending bam.

Secondly, I've seen you very happy to support mindless sheeping. Basically screaming at people to vote one way or another. You're sitting on a wagon with someone who is at least a VI, if not scum, and another player who I've yet to read. In under 100 posts, Bumi went from town to probably scum. 729: Pot, meet Kettle. 758: Obvious sheeping... Sure, he voted, but I really don't see why in his iso. States Sixx is scum and tells him to shut up... I honestly don't see why he's voting for Bumi over CKD. CKD is his only real built case, yet he's on Bumi. It's rather odd and so far, I have yet to see a reason for any of his votes (Since he hasn't voted for CKD...)

The only problem I have with this (besides agreeing that Bumi is probably scum) is that it makes no sense for Darthe-scum to out himself as a neighbor to get town-Bumi lynched. If Bumi flips town, then Darthe's own chance of being scum are greater, and scum-Darthe knows this.

So, unless you want to contend Darthe is scum-idiot, he's most likely town who thinks Bumi is scum.

[PeregrineV]

I don't normally discuss single voter cases, but I'm actually in only a few games and don't want to work right now, so let's do it!

ISO on Sixx, since he's new to me.

@Sixx: Top 3 scumreads and why. Top 3 townreads and why. Post numbers/links welcome.

@NJoseph- Ummmmm, how so? And how is it enough to change your playstyle, since in the end it's still just you?

This one with Six scum is terrible.

There are a ton of new players in this game unless somehow the open games I played are so isolated from the rest. I literally DONT RECOGNIZE seven players and thats really really rare for me.

The callout of Six in particular in a very coaching manner while not vocallizing anything on him is a pretty decent tell out of the gate. This increases because not giving reads is one of the reasons Six was getting wagoned, and thats exactly what PV is trying to get out of him while again, not comitting to a six read (or any reads really) of his own. The response from Six goes unnoted as well. The wagon on him never noted, a read never given.

Sixx gave his answer here. He gave a full list, and gave "reasons" for his top three and bottom three. It did nothing to change my feelings on him, which was that he's new and is playing to a different meta, and he'll probably be lynched for it. Don't know if I would have voted him, since I didn't like his lack of reasons, but hesitate to lynch new players for being new. Then he claimed jailkeeper, and I generally don;t lynch PR claims day1.

Instead I wanted to figure out Taz, as I think I can read him pretty good once I see him a certain way. So, unless you are claiming otherwise, I have NJ as strong town.

Yupp.

vote bumi

I AM A NEIGHBOR WITH BUMI AND SHE WAS CONSISTANTLY DETRACTING FROM THE SIXX LYNCH. LOOK AT THE ISO. BUMI IS SCUM.

Going to have to look at the VCs (hinthint mastin-Bird), but I thought Zitfe was a counterwagon to Sixx.

But until then, yes.

Vote: Bumi

As I said, this is a major tell as is since its just easy for scum to slide onto a wagon like this. No need to give reasons, no need for him to scumhunt additionally, Darth has just given him all the reason in the world to vote and he takes it laying down reasoning that lets him stay or move on as needed.

I first mentioned Bumi in my first set of reads. Did you miss that or are you ignoring it?
And one person voting is not a wagon. It didn't technically become a wagon until I voted Bumi here

PV does no scumhunting (like JF did - and JF reads town as town)

I disagree.

Quick JF bits though

-Votes thez for "having diffferent reads + want a lynch"
-Yeah thats about it, he did nothing else

Probably why he was replaced.

The PV slot constantly drifts by giving no reads, and has almost a textbook interaction with Six as a partner by trying to point him in the right direction while avoiding doing anything soild with him. PV reads as scummy with Six, he reads as scummy by himself, he is the lynch here dependent on what mods Ztife has.

Already disproved all of this, but eagerly await your response.

Since I disagree with half your scumlist, why is Bumi town?

And thoughts on this:

So Sixx, are dangerous drivers scum in your mind?

1. Jailkeeper in a car setup = cop car, all cops do these days is look for bad drivers :V
2. SC provided fake role PMs for the scum because this is a SC game, stop looking in to it

[PeregrineV]

Whatever.

I'm a Universal Backup guys.

Name's Rodrigo Hernández and I drive a 1974 Ford Torino Sport.

Flavor is that I'm a new racer that's been watching everyone race for years learning what they do.

Are you sure about this?

[PeregrineV]

Llama made a decent case.

I would

prefer

the case to go into more detail, but adding in PeregrineV's bad responses, and it's enough for the moment.

Bad responses? Por que?

[PeregrineV]

Pere, are you ccing Mini or something?

No, but I'm looking for clarification based on current events.

[PeregrineV]

Pere needs to come out and say what he wants to say now.

Sixx was a jailkeeper. So, that makes you a jailkeeper now, unless there are special rules concerning backups and modkills.

[PeregrineV]

Pere needs to come out and say what he wants to say now.

Sixx was a jailkeeper. So, that makes you a jailkeeper now, unless there are special rules concerning backups and modkills.

I would think Sixx's Mafia alignment would mean that TML as a town back-up would not actually back up Sixx's role

That's why I want clarification. I ran a game with a universal backup, and they got the first PR death, regardless of alignment.

But yes, I did see 1793.

[PeregrineV]

See the reason I think Parama slipped is that Sixx claimed Jailkeeper and in his claim post talked about being a literal Jailkeeper... His power came not from his car but from having the "cuffs and a cell" to put a stop to the dangerous driving. Parama then assumes that he his flavor is cop and he has a cop car when there was no indication that he drove a cop car or was flavorly a cop.

Proper articulation is your friend.

Unvote: Bumi

Vote: Llama

[PeregrineV]

That guy is ridiculously town,

Impress me with why, because right now he has a pre-Sixx-flip scumslip and a misrepresentation of facts against him in my book.

[PeregrineV]

Behind on the thread but will get pc access tonight.

[PeregrineV]

@Zdenek- reads list
A few questions, since I concur on quite a few.

Considering the players, does the quantity and quality of posting of BirdBeast ring any warning bells?

Skyhook was Sly, and he was directly responsible for the Sixx modkill(1173, 1174), why the null?

[PeregrineV]

Lol I just had a moment. Not to detract or anything but who would have a fucking aneurysm if Ztife ended up being a bomb?

I would welcome that at this point.

Against this in principal, but against 100 page days even more.

Vote: Zitfe

pedit:lol

[PeregrineV]

Considering the players, does the quantity and quality of posting of BirdBeast ring any warning bells?

Skyhook was Sly, and he was directly responsible for the Sixx modkill(1173, 1174), why the null?

For the first question, no. Is there something that you're thinking about?

For the second question, I don't care. This is very likely multiscum and he could have been anticipating the modkill.

Hydras have two people. If they post as much as one, that's cool. If they underpost for a single person, when there are two, and especially two VERY proliferious posters, it always draws my suspicion.

Anticipating the modkill?

[PeregrineV]

TML needs to claim his target. Not that it matters much, but still.

Vote: Jmj

You seem to "speak" yesterday, but for all you said you never placed a vote yourself, and instead unvoted.

[PeregrineV]

There could also be a town redirector.

Dude, that's some weird ass speculation.

[PeregrineV]

I have this weird gut feeling that the only reason our host made a point to potentially delay the start of day until killerjester was replaced indicates that killerjester was scum. For a townsperson replacement, you throw them to the wolves, let them catch up as soon as they can....but if killerj was scum, and inactive, then the next day couldn't start until he was replaced, because he needed to kill someone, and if he was inactive, he wouldn't submit who he wanted to kill.

Hmmm. I'm intrigued by this and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[PeregrineV]

If ANYTHING important happened between pgs 15 and 87 pls tell me

Sixx got run up, claimed JK, was modkilled because of SlySly (1173, 1174)
Parama/Llama seemed to have scumslipped, but they didn't.
Doc ended up lynched after 80+pages of day1.

[PeregrineV]

I have this weird gut feeling that the only reason our host made a point to potentially delay the start of day until killerjester was replaced indicates that killerjester was scum. For a townsperson replacement, you throw them to the wolves, let them catch up as soon as they can....but if killerj was scum, and inactive, then the next day couldn't start until he was replaced, because he needed to kill someone, and if he was inactive, he wouldn't submit who he wanted to kill.

Hmmm. I'm intrigued by this and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Lol I don't dislike this train of thought.

Also, apparently nothing happened important enough for you to read Matt, or you would read it.. right?

You don't like Boniface's conjecture, or the fact I think it might have merit?

[PeregrineV]

Don't dislike. As in like or appreciate.

Sorry, you're right. Getting tired and misread.

[PeregrineV]

Aj, give me a rundown of all who you think is scum. There must be more than two people.

I have this weird gut feeling that the only reason our host made a point to potentially delay the start of day until killerjester was replaced indicates that killerjester was scum. For a townsperson replacement, you throw them to the wolves, let them catch up as soon as they can....but if killerj was scum, and inactive, then the next day couldn't start until he was replaced, because he needed to kill someone, and if he was inactive, he wouldn't submit who he wanted to kill.

For the record, on this website nights get extended regardless of alignment to prevent speculation on this very thing.

Pere should seriously know better about this since he's been on the site for awhile.

I've seen extended nights that are set once empty slots are filled, but rarely "until player catchs up". This is really only minor though. Matt should pretty quickly become obv-something.

@Pere

, Jmo did vote for Thez yesterday. It was in a spoiler tag.

Yeah, went back and found it, but missed it the first time.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, what's the jmomumbo case beyond the vote dealio?

1. Lists top 5 scumreads who are people I have varying town reads on
2. Only person not voting yesterday (I thought he avoided voting at all, but I missed one)
3. Not keenly interested in the Matt of AJ wagon, since I think Matt's alignment will resolve itself through play, and I don't find AJ scummy.

[PeregrineV]

PV, you scumbag, don't ignore us. Are we town or scum? No wishywashy BS, thanks in advance.

Null.

[PeregrineV]

Fallen behind because of work, will catch up this weekend.

[PeregrineV]

Busy with work this week, and still on page 97, but will work on catching up.

[PeregrineV]

My current town list is Skyhook, TML, thez, BabySpice, Darthe, Jal, and Boniface, all for various reasons.

Considering recent kills and alignments, I'm batting pretty well this game (except for Llama).

As for the rest, I didn't feel MattP was anywhere near his town level of play. I'll look through it again, but he's kind of obvious as town, and that obviousness was missing.

I have no read on Albus or Jacob, but Albus recent posting comes across as town. But, some of the back and forth is being ignored.

Vote: JacobSavage

@Albus- please respond to the bottom of 2332.

[PeregrineV]

I thought you'd be more interested in your read on me.

I am, but it works better when you don't know your being watched.

[PeregrineV]

@Albus- Do you mean this?

In 2332 he tries to pass it off as being scummy that I found Thez scummy once I actually read the game for the first time. This is scummy from him several reasons, but my favorite is the part where he uses turn of phrase to try to pass off a very clear and easily explainable thing as being some mystical hidden key of scuminess that I'll never be able to talk my way out of so that everyone can ooh and ahh over how totally nailed I am. Again: Scum. Tactic.

[PeregrineV]

Albus is not a good lynch for today.

Vote: DeasVail

DV, however, is. Didn't give much thought to KJ, but the Matt & DV postings couldn't be more indicative of scum.

[PeregrineV]

My current town list is Skyhook, TML, thez, BabySpice, Darthe, Jal, and Boniface, all for various reasons.

Requesting these folks vote DV.

[PeregrineV]

My current town list is Skyhook, TML, thez, BabySpice, Darthe, Jal, and Boniface, all for various reasons.

Requesting these folks vote DV.

Why does it matter to you whether town or scum vote for me?

It doesn't.

[PeregrineV]

DV postings couldn't be more indicative of scum.

What's the explanatory version of this comment?

Comparision:
DV-replacement ISO this game

DV-replacment ISO in TV Upick, a game the third this size
I'm pretty sure I recall him flipping town in TV UPick, and I see a big difference in the two styles.

[PeregrineV]

@PV:

I'm pretty sure if you did a iso comparison of each player in this game to a town game prior to this you'd have to concede that everyone is in fact scum. That's more to do with this particular game than anything actually to do with alignment.

I'm sure, but I was recently burned by DV in La-La Land, and didn't follow up on my suspicion hard enough. When that happens, I tend to scumhunt the players next game.
Throw in the un-Matt-town like play of Matt-before-DV and a little bit of PoE, I think DV is scum and needs to die.

[PeregrineV]

Hate Sunday prods- more tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

PV, is the comparison with TV UPick a big reason for you thinking I'm scum?

Big one. I was torn between torn and scum when you died and flipped town.

La-La land I went in thinking DV town, and that slipped to a scum read.

Now I have direct comparisons, your play is definitely more LALA than TV.

[PeregrineV]

@DV- getting better....

Vote: JacobSavage

[PeregrineV]

I think we are all wasting time with multiple wagons..
Before Matt's, after Albus, and Jacob's and Now Babyspice... Please stop this madness, we are on Day 3, we haven't got the single scum yet.
BabySpice radical vote and her reactions to slandaar posts are good examples that she is could be scum.. Please re-think on that.

Are you disagreeing with the votes/wagons on those 4 people?

And since I don't have Baby as a scumread, and her "radical" vote is on you, you'll have to give more actual reasons why she's scum.

[PeregrineV]

Early posting argued and clarified and translated. She's been giving opinions on relevant topics, and generally posting my way of thinking, even if I don't agree with some of her reads.
Nothing recent (today) indicates otherwise.

[PeregrineV]

@DV- Your last 5? And anything to say about 2591?

[PeregrineV]

Albus, the post count above that, and every one since until the last page or so, has Darthe voting for you.

Darthe, did you really go two weeks, or 300 posts, without knowing where your vote was?
Especially given that it was showing on the lead wagon?

Mod, Edo is due a prod I believe

What do you think of DV's lone vote on Edo, and his reason for voting him?

[PeregrineV]

It's pretty clear who Blue scum killed you derps. It's in the flavor:

Nachomamma8, who was Alex Fields, the driver of a 2005 Volkswagen Jetta R GT and a vanilla townie,

has been incarcerated on Night 1

.

You watch the news at your hideout. You wonder why you do this, given it only ever talks negatively about the Midnight Racing Club.

Chester Goldstein was the next racer to end up in the clink, being led out of his 2012 BMW 135i and into a police cruiser.

BirdAndBeast, who was Chester Goldstein, the driver of a 2012 BMW 135i and a vanilla townie,

has been arrested on Night 2.

But it doesn't sound what way the way you said it. Based on these, what is the Taz-Vig kills and which are the red kills?

[PeregrineV]

Bumi was killed by the vigilante. I'm assuming the rest were red kills. Do you guys think that AJ's lynch was brought on by red scum, blue scum, or someone else? And Slandaar, would it make sense that a red scum would know for sure who the blue scum are targeting in a multiball game like this, with all the other factors? I don't see Red being let in on any of Blue's decision makings

If vig "tied to the railroad tracks" night2, did he "toss through a window" or "run over" on night1?

[PeregrineV]

Thanks guys. Brain should be working but it's not.

Lynches

Sixx, who was James Donahue, the driver of a 1993 Ford Mustang SSP and an NYPD Mafia jailkeeper, has been modkilled on Day 1 for quoting his role PM.

Ztife, who replaced unseencamo, who was Eric Stevenson, the driver of a 1990 Honda Prelude and a doctor, has been lynched on Day 1.
Aj The Epic, who was Bailey Smith, the driver of a 2003 Renault Clio V6 and a vanilla townie, has been executed on Day 2.
JacobSavage, who was Enrique Sandoval, the driver of a 1994 Lamborghini Diablo SE30 and a vanilla townie, has been lynched on Day 3

.

Vig shots

LlamaFluff, who replaced Parama, who was Leonard White, the driver of a 1998 Shelby Series 1 and a vanilla townie, has been run over on Night 1.
Bumi, who was Haukea Mana, the driver of a 1985 Mercury Capri RS and a neighbor, has been tied to the subway tracks on Night 2.

Blue Scum NKs

Nachomamma8, who replaced SoraAdvent, who was Alex Fields, the driver of a 2005 Volkswagen Jetta R GT and a vanilla townie, has been incarcerated on Night 1.
BirdAndBeast (hydra of AngryPidgeon and mastin2), who was Chester Goldstein, the driver of a 2012 BMW 135i and a vanilla townie, has been arrested on Night 2.

Baby Spice, who was Millicent Klein, the driver of a 1999 Triumph Thunderbird Sport and a Death Bikers Mafia goon, has had her vehicle impounded on Night 3.

Red Scum NKs

Zdenek, who replaced nhammen, who was Patricia Stevens, the driver of a 1989 Subaru XT6 and a vanilla townie, has been defenestrated on Night 1.
njoseph, who was Frederick Schultz, the driver of a 1970 Pontiac Firebird and an ascetic vigilante, has been blown up on Night 2.

thezmon221, who was Seán Ó Briain, the driver of a 2009 Chevrolet Impala PPV and an NYPD Mafia goon, has been decapitated on Night 3.

[PeregrineV]

OKay, I get what you're saying Slandaar.

Pere, I have no idea what you were trying to get at with your reply to my post.

The way you said it didn't seem like you looked at all the kills to figure out who was killed by what, but only the blue scum kills.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: DeasVail

[PeregrineV]

@Jal- I had you mostly as a town read until part of your today posting. Even then, you explained it. Why do you think I'm suspicious of you?

[PeregrineV]

@Jal- I had you mostly as a town read until part of your today posting. Even then, you explained it. Why do you think I'm suspicious of you?

You just made it clear you were suspecious of me by pointing out what I said didn't look like what I said. You also just said in this sentence that you mostly has me as a town read until a part of your posting today, meaning you still are suspicious of me and not acting on it.

Right now, you're mostly ignoring the discussion over my wagon. If you still had me as a town read, then I figure you'd say something like others are concerning not seeing what they are seeing. If you thought I was scum, you'd vote me.

You're limobing purposely.

I don't consider it a scumslip because of 2715 where you explained it. Therefore, it was probably just badly said. Therefore, I'm keeping my town read on you. Therefore, I'm not voting you.

Ignoring the discussion? You have 3 votes. (NM, 6 now....)

Crap. Fine. Vote DV and I'll go find the crap on your wagon.

[PeregrineV]

Jal (6): Slandaar, Albus Dumbledore, Allyra, Darthe, Lurker, DV

A Baby Spice kill is also a noticeable difference from blue scum's usual tactic of killing big time town reads

SCUM FOUND

CONFIRMED

THIS IS BABY SPICES BUDDY

VOTE: Jal

LYNCH IT SO I DONT HAVE TO READ THREAD THANKS.

Refuted in 2715. Also, I noticed your play has "evolved" since the last time I've played with you. Any particular reason for that?

Unless they truly thought Nacho and B&B were scum

Just quoting this part since Slandaar didn't include it in his quote and it's kind of important for demonstrating his point.

vote: Jal

@Albus- Can you elaborate more on what part of Slandaar's Jal case is resonating most strongly with you?

2722- Understandable responses to Jal posts, but I disagree with your conclusion. (looks like more in 2723, but I;'ll come back to that)

@Darthe- do you have any specifics on what you found?

Jal wagon as comprised right now is all bluster and nothing else.

As for a lynch I'm leaning towards Edourist also. Need some time to actually go over things though.

This is some interesting interplay. I think I am going to run a Jal, mini, baby triangle and see what pops up.

Okay guys, I avoided quoting half of the 300 post interplay between those three and I just skimmed it but really didn't need to do moer than that. They are almost certainly together unless I am missing something, Jal and Spice for sure.

vote jal

Sheep time since I can't catch up

VOTE: JAL

Bad sheep. Sheep me.

DV is scum, so any reason he gives is bullshark anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Slandaar- Maybe weak town but I was going to check.

Slandaar, are you pretty sure about Jal? Because he's another townread, but I will probably follow you.

Jal- Strong Townread

I thought Heather's replace out post was really townish. I think that the extent to which Heather gets annoyed (and it's pretty much confirmed as genuine in the post where she actually replaces out) is only really possible from town, and Jal's play being townish as well makes my read pretty strong.

I just like 364. I think it's really natural.

The exchange that happens beginning at 1190 I feel is really genuine because I didn't understand what was going on either, and I think scum would be much more careful about possibly not knowing something that town would know.

Vote: Jal

Tired of ranting, but I think the contradiction here speaks for itself.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, how has Slandaar evolved? What does that mean?

Actually, I'm going to drop my TML town read because he's been posting elsewhere but not there when we're having a debate over his town/scum status for the past few days.

Also, I just realized I was at L-1. Screw that.

He's gone from more vote-hopping and quips to actual cases and reasons. It's a pleasant change to me, but I'm debating whether I should be suspicious.

[PeregrineV]

@Mod- VLA for 2/22 to Monday 2/25.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: DV

@Allyra-

Why Jal? I feel like we had this conversation yesterday....

[PeregrineV]

since I was asleep at the wheel

I get it. becasue it's a driving game.

[PeregrineV]

VT here.

Does anyone that knows flavor think our cars matter? Should we put that into the claim?

[PeregrineV]

I'ma page or two back, but see names and cars.

Jun Watanabe, 2002 Toyota Spyder

[PeregrineV]

Vote: DV

@Allyra-

Why Jal? I feel like we had this conversation yesterday....

dv is a good vote cuz he's likely scum. his question about tml's roleclaim in Post 2708 reads really fake now that tml flipped scum. but i don't want anyone to forget that jal is scum too. you might have decided she's not, but i'm not fooled by her fake posts. i'm going to have to make a case aren't i? and here i gave them up for lent .

I kind of prefer them.

[PeregrineV]

Thought the game was based on the video game, and figured someone here has played it and knows the flavor.

[PeregrineV]

I don't want to call it a prod dodge, but that's what this is while I catch up on work.

[PeregrineV]

OK I'm back today.

[PeregrineV]

@mcQueen-

help me lynch DV today and I promise to vote you tomorrow. How's that sound instead of lynching yourself (which is not town, BTW, no matter what your role PM says)

[PeregrineV]

@mcQueen-

help me lynch DV today and I promise to vote you tomorrow. How's that sound instead of lynching yourself (which is not town, BTW, no matter what your role PM says)

VOTE: pv

finally a nutcase slipped up.

im not going to lynch myself LOL

trolling is a great way for reaction testing, which causes slipups.

so if i help u mislynch dv today, @pv, then you'll help me mislynch myself tomorrow? all the while killing some other town player tonight? no thnx.

Math is your friend.

VOTE COUNT
DeasVail (2): PeregrineV, Allyra
mcqueen (

5

): Slandaar, penguin_alien, Lurker, mcqueen, Darthe
Not voting (3): ArcAngel9, DeasVail, Jal

With 10 alive, it takes

6

players to lynch.

[PeregrineV]

so if i help u mislynch dv today

Ah, an opinion!

Why is DV a mislynch?

[PeregrineV]

so if i help u mislynch dv today

Ah, an opinion!

Why is DV a mislynch?

Other than your "I'm obv-town" posts and setup speculation, this is your very first opinion offered on another player.

[PeregrineV]

a solid town player does not give in to ate like you did, saying that by giving you your mislynch today, you'll mislynch me tomorrow, with my own help, making it all the easier for you to win. all my votes were because players were tired of me, and because of slandaar's im so great and mcqueen is scum act that everyone thinks im scum, but your claim that you'll help me lynch me tomorrow is scumm-ily giving in to my ate, which was actually reaction testing.

If you helped lynch DV, and lived through the night, there is actually a chance you'd become invested in the game and stop doing this crap.
So, the "help you lynch yourself the next day" part was mostly sarcasm (see note #1 in my sig).

But, I'm more interested in some of your other stuff.

"DV mislynch"
"Jal the lynch of the day"

You had no player opinion and now DV is town, and Jal was some sort of obvious lynch. I want to know where these ideas came from, since this is the first you've mentioned it.

[PeregrineV]

Hey captain vanilla idiot or whatever it is you want to call yourself stop flailing about with your puerile antics and get your head in the game. I don't know who you are, and couldn't care less about what you normally do in lylo. If it were any ther point in the game, I'd have happily given you the lynch you so richly deserved after wasting several days and pages acting like a child, but unfortunately we don't have the lynches to spare for that kind of silliness. This game has the potential to not even make it to lylo.

Think about it. We have 10 people alive right now. If the scum teams are balanced numerically, then there are 3 red mafia members left and 1 blue member left.

If we mislynch today, we go into night with 9 people. If there are no cross kills tonight, and we lynch a blue scum tomorrow, the game is over, unless someone in town has lied about there role and is a doc or something, but what's the likelihood of that. (speaking of if we are in this scenario tomorrow, if the blue member is about to be lynched he should confess, it will give him a small but doubtful chance of winning.)

In short we don't have a mislynch to spare, and you need to learn proper bait before you start fishing for reactions.

lol

but yeah, this.

[PeregrineV]

But, I'm more interested in some of your other stuff.

"DV mislynch"
"Jal the lynch of the day"

You had no player opinion and now DV is town, and Jal was some sort of obvious lynch. I want to know where these ideas came from, since this is the first you've mentioned it.

[PeregrineV]

I have a scum read on jal anyway,

Why? Activity-wise he's been below normal, but post-content wise he's not.

[PeregrineV]

But, I'm more interested in some of your other stuff.

"DV mislynch"
"Jal the lynch of the day"

You had no player opinion and now DV is town, and Jal was some sort of obvious lynch. I want to know where these ideas came from, since this is the first you've mentioned it.

just bc i have an opinion, doesnt mean i have to say it right at the time that i had/have it/them.

But you didn't, and now you do have them.

Since I think DV is scum and Jal is town and have said why, I want to know why you these opinons.

And also Slaandaar is supposed to be scum, and allyra too?

[PeregrineV]

I might later

that WoW ISO looks completely different and I looked at it for 2 seconds

Then you should read her posts this game.

Vote AA

Odds AA is Baby Spices buddy from this quote?

Very High.

Context: Sland has Caught Baby; Baby knows Sland has caught her; Baby very strongly implies Sland is wrong on something else; the reason to do it with a scumbuddy is to try to convince me I am wrong on her because she was right on AA. There is a strong implication that Baby knows AA is scum.

This might be good, but I'll look over the Baby Spice ISO and see if I find anything.

[PeregrineV]

This might be good, but I'll look over the Baby Spice ISO and see if I find anything.

First half seems to be full of Parama protection (town), AJ Epic challanges (town) Thez attacks (bluescum) and Zitfe wagoning (town).

Next 50 posts soon.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry for absence-more later today.

[PeregrineV]

Lets all just agree PV has to be bluescum and lynch him.

Jal isn't blue; all she does is hunt bluescum
Wind isn't blue; he would have been lynched yesterday
Penguin isn't blue she had no clue that arrest = bluescum kill
AA isn't blue because shes redscum
Allyra isn't blue because she is town
Same argument for me.

OK so I realised I probably need stronger arguments for AA/Allyra but I am clearly not blue because there is no way I don't just lynch DV yesterday if I were.

I disagree with this list.

How are you even determining this list and your base of this list is mostly assumptions not the facts. Myself is the true example. What makes you think i am the red scum? I am not. If I am the red scum why do I hammer my scum mate especially when i am in a position that i could have pushed for WIND's lynch. Anybody can see what i did in the last phase, I was in a position to push for WIND lynch than hammer DV but i ended following my read, guts and Hammered the right scum. so you're assumptions are wrong.

I thought you and Jal are town, and I was sure about Allyra. Now i am having second thoughs on you.
I think its time i re-think about my town reads as well. We have come so far and there is 50-50 chance of winnign and i am not letting scum win this game.

DeasVail (6):

PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal, wind-up,

Lurker

,

ArcAngel9

wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Darthe,

DeasVail

I really doubt if there is a red scum DV wagon, Since they were only two of them.. they needed each other back to get the wagon on going.
And blue scum in DV wagon which could between PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal and Wind-up. this going to be hard list to filter.

Which is now leading me to Wind-up wagon, Slandaar and Penguin_Alien. They both are red scums? that looks too easy... But that seems the most reasonable possibility.

Jal & PeregrineV - I need your inputs.

I absolutely agree with the bolded part. There is no way red scum busses DV.

And know we pretty much know the setup, and are probably at 4:2:1. That means yesterday three red scum, which means why bus DV at all in the target rich environment of 7 other players?

Going to look vote counts over, I think we can get more info.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): penguin_alien
Boniface (1): ArcAngel9

DeasVail

(1): PeregrineV
Jal (6): Slandaar,

Albus Dumbledore

, Allyra,

Darthe, Lurker

,

DeasVail

PeregrineV (1): Jal
Not voting (3):

Boniface, wind-up

,

The Mini-Librarian

With

13

alive, it takes

7

players to lynch.

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): penguin_alien
Boniface (1): ArcAngel9

DeasVail

(1): PeregrineV
Jal (6): Slandaar,

Albus Dumbledore

, Allyra,

Darthe, Lurker

,

DeasVail

Not voting (4):

Boniface

, wind-up,

The Mini-Librarian

, Jal

With

13

alive, it takes

7

players to lynch.[/color]

VOTE COUNT

DeasVail

(2): PeregrineV, Allyra
Jal (1):

Darthe

wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Lurker

, wind-up
Not voting (3): ArcAngel9,

DeasVail

, Jal

With

10

alive, it takes

6

players to lynch.

VOTE COUNT

DeasVail

(6): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal, wind-up,

Lurker

, ArcAngel9

wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Darthe

,

DeasVail

With

10

alive, it takes

6

players to lynch.

DeasVail, who was

Yvette le Mieux, the driver of a 2008 Ducati Monster 696 and a Mafia bulletproof goon

, has been lynched on Day 5.

Night 5 ends in (expired on 2013-03-18 13:34:15).

[PeregrineV]

Starting with 2816, the fact that Jal was at L-1, but wasn't hammered at all, much less by TML doesn't look good, but the fact he also wasn't hammered by redscum means he's probably not redscum. And if he's not, then his wagon is full of town, despite there being 2 blue and 3 red scum left?
Let's keep Slandaar and Allyra in mind from this count.

[PeregrineV]

2825 is no change, other than a Jal unvote. But, I don't expect he would hammer himself. (May have grabbed the wrong VC).

Moving onto 3005 (yesterday after TML lynch) wondering why mcqueen (now windup) wasn't worried about being hammered if scum or town.

If town, maybe relying on luck/apathy. But if scum, might not be worried because team already on his wagon. But DV moved there to end the day. For a survival vote it was late placed, but need to look at vote order to see more.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE COUNT

DeasVail

(3): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal
wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Lurker, Darthe

Not voting (3): ArcAngel9,

DeasVail

, wind-up

With

10

alive, it takes

6

players to lynch.

From here,

Dv

voted wind-up.

Vote: Wind-up

L-1

DeasVail

(3): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal
wind-up (5): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Lurker, Darthe

,

DeasVail

Not voting (2): ArcAngel9, wind-up

From this, bluescum or redscum could have hammered. However, 4 people choose not to.

Windup votes

DV

in 3080.

DeasVail

(4): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal, wind-up
wind-up (5): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Lurker, Darthe

,

DeasVail

Not voting (1): ArcAngel9

If wind-up was also redscum, he could have chose someone else to create a wagon on, since he just replaced in he could give a fresh perspective and maybe gotten it traction. So probably not redscum. Could be blue, but never hammered Jal the day before. If he's the final blue, he should have happily taken out town-Jal or red-scum Jal. So probably not scum at all.

Lurker unvotes in 3093

DeasVail

(4): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal, wind-up
wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Darthe

,

DeasVail

Not voting (2): ArcAngel9,

Lurker

ArcAngel votes Slandaar 3106
Since she's not voting DV or wind-up at this point, no effect.

Lurker

votes

DV

.

Arc hammers in 3158.

[PeregrineV]

This is the VC that matters regarding Red scum because it shows they clearly wanted to save MattP therefore we can conclude Red were not bussing.

VOTE COUNT

Aj The Epic (11): BirdAndBeast, The Mini-Librarian, Edosurist, Baby Spice, ArcAngel9, Skyhook, ? ×5

ArcAngel9 (1): thezmon221
Bumi (1): Aj The Epic
jmj3000 (1): PeregrineV
MattP (6): curiouskarmadog, Boniface, Jal, njoseph, Albus Dumbledore, Darthe
Not voting (6): Bumi, JacobSavage, jmj3000, MattP, UVApe

With

20

alive, it takes

11

players to lynch.

Your discussion about who has a reason for the Midnight Racing Club to be put out of existence is interrupted by machine gun fire. You run out to the scene of the shooting and find Bailey Smith's bloodied body limp in her 2003 Renault Clio V6. The killer got clean away, too. You decide to give her a funeral and end the day right there.

Aj The Epic, who was

Bailey Smith, the driver of a 2003 Renault Clio V6 and a vanilla townie

, has been executed on Day 2.

Night 2 ends in (expired on 2013-01-29 19:26:37).

And amazing there I am first vote on MattP

Amusing you didn't use this VC PV.

This is day 2. I used to have time to locate and color code 50+ posts, but I don't anymore. If you do, it would be helpful.

And are you really suggesting that with 11 to lynch, scum wouldn't vote thier buddy in the first 6 with 2 competing wagons?

Try again.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, why did you come in after ArcAngel9's hammer and say you'd have more later? It reads like an attempt to deflect attention.

Generic message I posted Friday morning because work took up a lot of the week (my normal playtime).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?s ... 4&start=25

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, why did you come in after ArcAngel9's hammer and say you'd have more later? It reads like an attempt to deflect attention.

Also, I strongly suspect you might be scum, since Lurker-town, DV-scum, you and Slandaar were on the windup wagon (who is probtown and was DV counterwagon).

thoughts?

[PeregrineV]

I just realized that lynching red scum guarantees a town loss if they don't cross kill. I think that's right. 7 today, we lynch red, go to six, no cross kill, we're at 4, lynch one and lose to the other team. Yeah I'm dumb, we need to lynch blue today.

Pere - why would tml hammer his buddy and why does him not hammering jal make her town?

Guessing you are referring to this:

VOTE COUNT
ArcAngel9 (1): penguin_alien
Boniface (1): ArcAngel9

DeasVail

(1): PeregrineV
Jal (6): Slandaar,

Albus Dumbledore

, Allyra,

Darthe, Lurker,

DeasVail

PeregrineV (1): Jal
Not voting (3):

Boniface

, wind-up,

The Mini-Librarian

Looking back over, if TML knew his wagon would build up as fast as it did 2833-2834-2847<--another reason Jal prob not-bluescum-2863-2866, he probably would have hammered Jal no matter what.
But, by the time TML was building, Lurker and Dumbledore had already unvoted Jal.
Also don't see DV bussing redscum-Jal when he could have joined any of the other 1-votes to try to create a counterwagon.

[PeregrineV]

I still think wind-up could be red scum. I can't fathom why else mcqueen wasn't lynched at L-1; presumably red thought they could get another target out there, and unfortunately for them it was another of their number.

PeregrineV, since I disagree that wind-up was definitely a counterwagon, I don't think your pointing out that I was on a wagon I still think was on scum with town and scum players really says all that much.

Then thoughts on this?

If wind-up was also redscum, he could have chose someone else to create a wagon on, since he just replaced in he could give a fresh perspective and maybe gotten it traction. So probably not redscum. Could be blue, but never hammered Jal the day before. If he's the final blue, he should have happily taken out town-Jal or red-scum Jal. So probably not scum at all.

Also, if you are claiming not to be scum, then where do you think scum are?

VOTE COUNT
DeasVail (6): PeregrineV, Allyra, Jal, wind-up, Lurker, ArcAngel9
wind-up (4): Slandaar, penguin_alien, Darthe, DeasVail

[PeregrineV]

PV, what is your conclusion on who you think is scum?

Right now, based on everything recent, I have you as town and windup as town, both near to 75%.

(Also strong windup is town evidence from here:

Vote: Edosurist

Oh and guys. Edos is scum.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 0&sr=posts
VOTE: Edos
His jump off of the Dumbledore wagon was terrible also.

Both scumteams wanted windup gone)

From play, I think Allyra and Arc are both town, but I have to be wrong about one of them (or less likely, one of you 2).

Current choices for scum are slandaar and Penguin

[PeregrineV]

PV, the thing is I have seen you do this as scum before. You know you might die so you put up a bunch of stuff which concludes to nothingness.

Not really. What I did before was try to create WIFOM from one of Michel's posts so you would live longer, and when I died and flipped scum then everything would hopefully be more confusing than before.

I think my conclusions here are mostly sound. And if you disagree, then which conclusions do you find wrong and why?

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Penguin_alien

@Slandaar- Go ahead with your megatells, but they have to be
1. verifiable
2. reproducible
3. not done by town-aligned windup

[PeregrineV]

My current town list is Skyhook, TML, thez, BabySpice, Darthe, Jal, and Boniface, all for various reasons.

looking back at deasvail's voting of edosurist and it was when he didn't have any votes on him and wasn't in danger so don't know how much that proves.

but came across your list of reads that day. two of the three remaining blue members in your town list. hmmm...what was so town about them? thez protected sixx like hell, and tml was really scummy, and both of them made the way into your so town list?

Skyhook was slySly, who I feel was pretty directly responsible for the pressure on Sixx leading to the Sixx modkill.
TML claimed backup doc
thez play seemed town
Babyspice play seemed town
Darthe attack of Bumi-neighbor scum
Jal-play more reminiscent of town-Jal than scum-Jal
Boniface was PmMysterious, who was painfully obvtown VI.

[PeregrineV]

Penguin is town

Why is she red not blue again AA?

Is this another super secret tell? Because you are still behind one explanation.

[PeregrineV]

yeah Darthe was killed by redscum last night so that makes it even more obvious that AA planned to come into today with this plan

Unless someone thinks a team of Sland/Penguin would kill the only town on the Wind wagon? of course not

So I just confirmed Penguin and myself as town.

I'm pretty sure there is a logic breakdown here. And I think it starts with asking a negative.

Darthe was looking at Jal and windup. So is your contention that a team of windup/AA would kill Darthe to make Slandaar & penguin look scummy when it would have been simpler to kill slandaar and focus Darthe on Jal if he got back on windup.

So, for me, stuff like this don't work.

[PeregrineV]

Wind/AA red

I am fairly sure its PV blue fairly freaking sure but I want to actually read the whole thread before I vote today

Since I'm not scum of any color, you really should read the thread.

[PeregrineV]

So pere if you're not scum of any color, whatcha doin votin pa right now? You convinced pa is blue? Or do you just not care so long as any lynch happens?

Cuz I know you know better, and you look really scummy right now.

My first large game here was multi-scum (Cold War Mafia). I agonized over what type of scum and how the endgame would turn out. I was wrong just enough to where it didn't matter.

But hey, let's do this, at least for a few minutes.

[PeregrineV]

7 alive, 5 town, 2 redscum, 1 bluescum.

Lynch town today, makes it 4:2:1.

Then, tomorrow it's either

2:2:1
or
4:1:0
or
3:1:1

Right?

Or maybe not, since maybe red has a bulletproof

You asked me why you didn't start a non-red counterwagon if you were red scum. Yes, bussing the bulletproof PR on your own team is moronic on the surface, but it sure gave you a nice argument here.

Or a double target occurs.

So then it's maybe

4:2:0
or
3:2:1

With me so far?

[PeregrineV]

7 alive, 4 town, 2 redscum, 1 bluescum.

Lynch bluescum today, makes it 4:2:0.

then, tomorrow, assuming nothing hinky,

it's

3:2:0.

Then a redscum lynch means 3:1, and 2:1 the next day.
A town lynch means 2:2 making it 2endgame.
No lynch means 3:2, and 2:2 the next day, making it engame.

[PeregrineV]

7 alive, 5 town, 2 redscum, 1 bluescum.

Lynch town today, makes it 4:2:1.

Then, tomorrow it's either

2:2:1
or
4:1:0
or
3:1:1

Right?

Or maybe not, since maybe red has a bulletproof

You asked me why you didn't start a non-red counterwagon if you were red scum. Yes, bussing the bulletproof PR on your own team is moronic on the surface, but it sure gave you a nice argument here.

Or a double target occurs.

So then it's maybe

4:2:0
or
3:2:1

With me so far?

No, because 5 + 2 + 1 isn't 7, it's 8. Try again.

No doubt, that's why I don't do this anymore.

7 alive, 4 town, 2 redscum, 1 bluescum.

Lynch town today, makes it 3:2:1.

Then, tomorrow it's either

1:2:1
or
3:1:0
or
2:1:1

Right?

Or maybe not, since maybe red has a bulletproof

You asked me why you didn't start a non-red counterwagon if you were red scum. Yes, bussing the bulletproof PR on your own team is moronic on the surface, but it sure gave you a nice argument here.

Or a double target occurs.

So then it's maybe

3:2:0
or
2:2:1

With me so far?

[PeregrineV]

AAs case on me is basically this; If I were town I should have known DV were redscum and voted him.

Obviously this is untrue; as town there is no way for me to know this; and that is literally her whole case so shes scum.

PV what is your case?

also; no red doesn't have a bp that was DV he died.

Why did you list the possibilities of lynching town? not lynching scum considering this must be what you think is going to happen?

Mine is mostly PoE, since a lot of the logical scum moves weren't made by key players in certain positions to do so. It doesn't help that your now throwing up illogical arguments or using circular logic or not answering questions.

Oh, didn't read the description closely, just saw the color.

I'm listing all the possibilities, since scum color has now become more important than the fact they are scum.

[PeregrineV]

7 alive, 4 town, 2 redscum, 1 bluescum.

Lynch redscum today, makes it 4:1:1.

then, tomorrow, assuming nothing hinky,

it's

4:0:0
or
3:1:1
or
3:0:1
or
2:1:1
or
3:1:0

4:0:0 town win

3:1 of any color means another day to lynch scum (or no lynch)

2:1:1 means
mislynch- 1:1:1 which scum has to kill scum to win
scumlynch-2:1 which is a scum win

[PeregrineV]

Dv flipped BP. But nothing says blue can't have a BP also. Which affects the numbers again.

[PeregrineV]

If someone else wants to do the probabilities then they can convince me scumcolor matters more than not.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

fine, looking over the numbers I guess lynching bluescum is better. But it sure is a lot more work, esp. when caught scum is sitting right there.

[PeregrineV]

Penguin is town

Why is she red not blue again AA?

Is this another super secret tell? Because you are still behind one explanation.

Let's start with Slandaar.

why are you ignoring everything I'm asking you?

And you keep trying to confirm yourself as town.

Since that's not going to happen without proof, walk me through whatever posts you need to prove you are not bluescum. Do it like I'm 6.

[PeregrineV]

@Allyra- I think you are town from your entry posts, but let's cover all bases.

What are you talking about heather and johnny? And what is scummy about my posting (this is more for fmi since I hear it all the time)?

[PeregrineV]

@Jal

- go back to your roots and put me inside your brain. I know you can use logic, and don't know why you stopped.

[PeregrineV]

@Allyra- I think you are town from your entry posts, but let's cover all bases.

What are you talking about heather and johnny? And what is scummy about my posting (this is more for fmi since I hear it all the time)?

both of your and jal's replacements. your posts aren't scummy on their own but in relation to flipped blue scum. you are almost certainly not red based on how you went after dv unless you decided to bus for no reason whatsoever, especially with him being bp. oh and a side note, it's probably the redscum that had the ability to mess with the vote count on day two. Matt was getting run up and was equal with AJ when the x5 happened. anyway, you're not that...pretty sure.

if you're scum you're blue. the thing that makes me pause on you being blue scum is the day four lynch. jal was the early front runner for a lynch and you pushed for dv and decided she was most likely town. true you couldn't have known at the time that the lynch would fall onto tml, but it seems it would have been much preferable for you as blue to lynch jal if she were town. you definitely wouldn't have been to blame for the lynch and it would have bought you an extra day. i'll have to look at how that day went down again. lynching red scum may have been more preferable though as blue scum.

I understand this. Since I had a townread on thez for his posting and TML for his claim, any interactions are bound to reflect badly on me.

I was scum with Jal in Cartoons, and was caught scum by Jal in another game, and really fell his was using town playstyle. DV, on the other hand, was not.

But, please do this and report findings.

[PeregrineV]

Let's start with Slandaar.

why are you ignoring everything I'm asking you?

And you keep trying to confirm yourself as town.

Since that's not going to happen without proof, walk me through whatever posts you need to prove you are not bluescum. Do it like I'm 6.

Oh Hi PV!

OK

I lynched TML?

There is a reason I don't answer some questions.

OK. Why did you lynch him?

And statements sans explanations will not receive the same weight as those with explanations.

[PeregrineV]

PV you have seen me as scum

Do you really think I am not town? REALLY?

We were scum together in Blood Bowl, iirc.

We were town in WiH3, where I agonized for months over whether you were scum or not.

There may be more, but those are in long-term memory, and while you were more lurky in Blood Bowl, your evasiveness now is not helping anything.

So, REALLY, I can see you as not town, sure.

Need more? y/n

[PeregrineV]

I've thought about it.

I agree that our best bet is to lynch blue scum.

I don't think Allyra is scum. I also don't think AA is either. Slaandar had a lot of sway, so if he's scum, why would he attack Baby scum and then help switch the wagon off of me to go lynch blue scum? His interaction with PV really hits as him being town.

To me, it's PV, PA, and Wind-up. I am not sure if Wind-up is scum, I can see him on either side though. PV's plea to me kinda looks townish. If he's town only Wind-up can be blue scum from my point of view.

Urgh.

Okay PV work with me, who is blue scum?

Slaandar, do you think AA was faking being oblivious at the start of today? That looked town to me.

Working through it now.

Allyra is town.

I also gave windup=town reasoning (3206 and 3256).
Can you follow the logic?
Do you agree or disagree with it?

I specifically think 2847 proves you are not bluescum. You brought up actual scumminess by a player under heavy suspicion and explained it all in one sentence. At that point you were no longer in danger, and you could have diverted the wagon from TML or just ignored it if you were bluescum.
Agree or disagree (with the logic behind my conclusion)?

[PeregrineV]

I'll come back to this later. Another game sucked up my day.

[PeregrineV]

Should have, doesn't mean they would have.

PV. just tell me who is blue scum instead of who isn't.

I don't know. Trying to work it. But, less hurry on this game since no deadline, and bluescum lynch gives us better odds.

[PeregrineV]

@mod- V/LA Mar 29 to Apr 1

[PeregrineV]

It's gonna start with penguin_alien and ArcAngel, since I don't think Slandaar is bluescum.

Will catch up on the last 2 pages and then start.

[PeregrineV]

Got 10 minutes right now, so penguin first.

[PeregrineV]

My reads so far will do an ISO tomorrow I hope.

town:

Darthe
Lurker
LLama
Nachomamma

thez

B&B
njsoeph
dumbledore

JAL
--------------
null so far:
AA - will ISO

AJ The epic - will ISO

PM - no opinion yet
nhammen - no opinion yet

PeregrineV - no opinion yet
windup - no opinion yet

--------------
null-leaning scum:

JaCobSavage

Allyra

DeasVail

------------
leaning scum:
Slandaar - Will ISO.

BUMI - Will ISO better, but either stupied or scum for having his vote on Nacho atm.

Baby spice

Sixx
TML

----------
scum:

Ztife

So uhhhh. Ztife/jeck are double bussing each other? Discuss? Still 8 pages behind, reading during a meeting. Awww yeeeee.

~Bird.

I have no problem changing my vote to Sixx which is my 2nd pick. if we're able to get a lynch soon, this game is so boring right now.

UNVOTE: Ztife
VOTE: Sixx

Seems like there's not going to be a lynch on Sixx after all, I'll go back to Ztife now and hope that more people come.
I will never lynch nsjoseph when we've so much better alternatives.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZTife

Being on autopilot; being behind; general lack of interest; wanting to be replaced; this summarizes the majority of content from our librarian friend. the rest is not notably town either.

Vote: The mini- Librarian

First is first four players (no girth posting):
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Most interesting note is jeck has scumread on thez buts moves him to town in his series of posts. Also, scumreads list.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): penguin_alien
DeasVail (1): PeregrineV
Edosurist (1): The Mini-Librarian
Jal (3): Allyra, Darthe, DeasVail
The Mini-Librarian (4): Slandaar, ArcAngel9, Albus Dumbledore, Jal
Not voting (3): Boniface, Edosurist, Lurker

With

13

alive, it takes

7

players to lynch.

Allyra, I wasn't voting ArcAngel9 for defensiveness. My ISO as a recent replacement is pretty short and I think explains my reasoning pretty clearly, but the short version is that her jump onto Albus Dumbledore was really bad when considering her purported scum reads at the time and the hammer on JacobSavage was abysmal. Her refusal to acknowledge this, particularly the last point, is shady to me, but a lot of people seem willing to hand-wave it away as bad play. I'm not.

Having said that, the case on The Mini-Librarian is pretty bad if it really was expected that TML would be protecting B&B the night blue scum opted to kill B&B. Even if red had a roleblocker, why would they block TML and then not go after B&B themselves? Given that the other cases being put forward are the one on Jal, which stems from an erroneous assumption about blue scum kill knowledge and connections to Baby Spice that have yet to be divulged (Darthe, I'm listening), and a push on Edosurist that feels half-assed at best:

VOTE: The Mini-Librarian

Countering this is play by penguin himself. While he mostly seems to have it out for ArcAngel in his Iso, being number 5 on TML wagon does point away from bluescum.

However, the fact TML hammered himself might mean it was planned.

[PeregrineV]

Reading everything recent later.

[PeregrineV]

OK, now Arc.

[PeregrineV]

I'm big time leaning PV here and this big delay of everything isn't making me feel any better. I've seen him do this as scum twice before. I think he loses steam towards the end.

Interesting. What games did you see me "lose steam as scum"?

[PeregrineV]

Did Arc ISO. Looks town to me.

Did Jal ISO again. Looks town, althoguh there is a weird emphasis on hunting for bluescum.

[PeregrineV]

Also, I remember now another reason I had a strong Jal townread. His predecessor HeatherA.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[PeregrineV]

PV reads town because he challenged me too much

Scum don't do that like ever once I take over the town because they don't want to encourage me to lynch them they want to leave me on my path.

Lynch Windup.

Since we're lynching bluescum today, and you've dismissed my argument about why windup isn't scum, then respond to 3424. It looks like what I was trying to say, but apparently communicates it better.

[PeregrineV]

I was specifically thinking of Open 410 and the recent First Time Mafia. In the former you didn't put up much of a fight prior to going V/LA, and chose rather to argue with me a little. First Time Mafia I can't even remember you towards the second last day (your quick lynch the last day doesn't count).

Slandaar, your logic doesn't make sense with whom you're targeting.

This is a little off-topic, but Open 410 I replaced into a scum role, and when we were 4:2 had to bus my teammate drmyshotgun because he was so scummy. I then had to claw my way to the end with pretty much 5 confirmed town. I pretty much felt that was a hopeless game, and I admit to not trying to hard, since I was the obvious lynch choice.

First Time mafia was similar. Partners dead day1 and day2, killed blocked night2, surrounded by 6 confirmed/confirmable town. Not sure what my strategy could have been. Any protestation of my lynch would be suicidal, since as town I would be happy to take one for the team, and we'd still have 3 mislnches left (or something to that effect).

But, tl;dr, not relevant here.

[PeregrineV]

410: You replaced into a scum slot midway through D1 and you and drmyshotgun weren't suspect. It was me vs Lastsurvivor so that whole thing doesn't matter much, and you weren't the obvious vote in our LYLO. In our three person LYLO, the other guy had me as his main scum read as did you, but he remarkably changed his read later on the last day.

But look at both scenarios. You were the last one left. In this scenario you'd be the last one left and there's a good possibility of your lynch. How wouldn't they be relevant? These scenarios are the same.

In both I was 1 scum in 5 or 1 scum in 6.

Here I'm 1 in 4 town with 3 scum left. Big difference.

[PeregrineV]

i know it's been asked before but i don't think it got answered or at least satisfactorily.

if wind-up is blue scum, how did he not get hammered yesterday?

VOTE COUNT

DeasVail

(2): PeregrineV,

Allyra

mcqueen

(5): Slandaar, penguin_alien,

Lurker

,

mcqueen

,

Darthe

Not voting (3): ArcAngel9,

DeasVail

, Jal

With

10

alive, it takes

6

players to lynch.[/color]

To accept that wind up is bluescum, we have to accept that when red scum came back in Post 3038 he opted not to hammer someone else to save himself and that neither of his other partners which would have to be peregrine, jal, or arcangel did either. I have no idea why deasvail didn't hammer, which he should have if wind-up is not red scum. The only explanation I can think of is that they wanted blue scum alive for the other night kill, but that doesn't make sense if they were just willing to sacrifice their bp. It just makes more sense to me if windup is either redscum or town.

am i missing something?

If redscum doesn't know he's bluescum, then they might not want to take the chance of lynching town. Although that makes little sense also, redscum probably plans to shoot thier way to the finish instead of relying on mislynches.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, who do you think is blue scum? Because I don't see where you think anyone else is.

It pretty much has to be between you and wind-up, with an outside chance at it being Jal, Slandaar, Arc. But, I think Slandaar is most likely redscum or (outside chance), town. But if he's town then I'm wrong somewhere else.

Yes, this is mostly PoE, but since I've posted my reasons for all reads and how they came about, it can be easily found in my ISO.

Vote: wind-up

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine being lynched just in time also.

You got that right...

You avoided some severe incarceration that night by lynching me. I probably would have been the NK, but I don't think I could have avoided that anymore.

[PeregrineV]

@Stranger- Thanks for modding, and for your patience with replacements!!

[PeregrineV]

An SK riding a Vespa would have fit in perfectly.

[PeregrineV]

@Stranger-
What was your thoughts behind the scumteam compositions? The 1s executioner+BP+2goons vs JK+3 goons.