Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Oversoul]

Hello, everyone

Pjo, what is your good reason

Whimsical Eggplant, are you Mastin

VOTE: Tierce
Matt looks town

[Oversoul]

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

That's contingent on there being a dumbass in the game

Ummm
Hello

You are playing with me
heyo

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

The gambit thing looks like Matt from First Time the whole gambit thing. Plus I'd rather Matt be town than scum since it will make my life so much easier.
Flavor for this game is uh... Gonna be interesting to say the least.

Tierce does it ring any bells to you? Based on the comments made by certain players?

[Oversoul]

Umm... I'll let you figure that one out.
Since you seem to know when Matt is acting townie or not, I assume you are aware of his play?

[Oversoul]

I hate my role. Discuss.

VOTE: Tierce

I'm a town lover and she's a scum lover

\o|o|o/

Good.

Vote: Matt

I forgot you got in
Yay

@Tammy, fair enough. I just think it is town.

[Oversoul]

I think you are misreading something

[Oversoul]

Oh shit are you guys actually lovers with a qt

Zzz

[Oversoul]

Tierce why did you ignore my question to you earlier?

[Oversoul]

Chocolate Vanilla Swirl Cupcake Maker Pokemon

with Wings

Fixed th-
Oh shit.

On one side, we got the fabricated looking townread on MattP
On the other side, we got the "scumslip"

These contradict each other in conclusion, since, assuming Eggplant flips scum, the fabricated townread on Matt would mean Matt being town, while the slip would obviously mean he talked with Matt in the scumQT, making matt scum.

Agreeing with Syr and Tierce.

Why don't you think it makes sense for scum to use fake reasons to call people a particular alignment?

PEdit: Probably because it was boring/incomprehensible. Be more entertaining and engaged and I might to do more than skim your posts.

I mean, honestly, it's

page 6

and you have an RVS vote on me still. Yawn.

It's only boring because you don't have an imagination.

Did I just go there?

Do you have a link to Mafia with the Kitties? I lost mine.

[Oversoul]

What was the "question", and is it actually relevant to this game?

The fact that you have to ask that.

[Oversoul]

But thank you

[Oversoul]

I forgot all the different people who played that game

[Oversoul]

Argh I had to actually go look it up because Jason has modded like 513 games.

The game is very recent, why did you say this?

[Oversoul]

So Oversoul, there isn't any sort of question, and the link isn't doing anything for you. Mind actually bothering with this game, now?

Yes.

I am entering Tinfoil Territory(tm) here, but this game is so far eerily similar to Mafia with the Kitties. I would appreciate your cooperation and insight given that you have modded and played several games as a hydra with Vi so you would know his mind and thought processes.

In Mafia with the Kitties, the flavor was based around a core concept. In that game the core concept was Cats, only this time the core concept is the Sky.

Looking at my role in Mafia with the Kitties, a "universe" claim WOULD have been beneficial for the town because I was a Flavor Cop. Looking at Pjo's comments in this game, it reminds me of someone who is in that potential position to help break the game, or in other words, would have his role gain from a "universe" claim.

In addition, the "Apocalypse" game mechanic becomes unfair to the town, especially after the "Special" role is killed. For that reason the basic set-up of Mafia with the Kittes of Cop, Vig, Blocker vs Blocker, "Godfather", and 2 Goons looks feasible in this set-up.

I left more than enough hints at this but you still didn't pick up. Maybe it was my selective remembering because I was the Flavor Cop in Mafia with the Kitties but it seemed obvious what I was getting at.

Your pressure on Zach also seems fairly short sighted given the reasoning you chose to vote him. But I will intervene on that front after you two have discussed more.

VOTE: Whimsical

[Oversoul]

I wonder.

What do you think of Mattp and the slip from Whimsical that Enomis pointed out?

Skimmed, didn't bother reading it in depth. Doesn't matter since I already had him down as scum.

Don't really care to state my thoughts on matt. Not to you at least.

Clarify the last statement for me please. Specifically regarding how this is a public forum for discussion.

[Oversoul]

When are you going to start scumhunting, bungle?

[Oversoul]

Argh I had to actually go look it up because Jason has modded like 513 games.

The game is very recent, why did you say this?

He runs so many games, one right after the other and even multiple games at the same time I have trouble keeping them all straight. I wasn't referencing the game on anything other than memory, being asked for the link was somewhat annoying because I was then being asked to actually look the game up. (Bah at having to do work.)

No I understand how it might be hard, it's just the cut (mass claim) from that game is deep to me. Plus it was within the last 4 or 5 months so not many Large Theme games have filled that chamber of my Memory Palace yet.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

I find her accusations against Zach to be pretty bad.

She's voting him for seeing similar play? The way she makes his actions out to be is "Zach, you said Pjo is playing like Faraday". Zach could have avoided this situation altogether by not even mentioning the other game.

I'm willing to let Tierce take this further since she has a better feel for Zach's play, but I think that reason is completely bunk.

[Oversoul]

but when I see someone with a scummy for Best Town Performance doing lazy/bad things like this it calls for some voteage. And I'm shamelessly sheeping Tierce.

Oh dear god...

Have you actually read the game that won that award? You probably should.

I guess Thor's thread does have some credence.

I'm not entirely sure I like how the Tierce and Zach interaction ended. It looks like it was charging up to be something big and then it just ends abruptly.

And people don't policy-lynch nearly enough, actually.

Policy lynches are the best thing since sliced bread.

You seem more in tune with mafia than your join date implies... Are you an alt?

There is remarkably little to be gained by waiting around and doing nothing.

Au contraire.

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

Time together in team mafia?
You weren't on his team and you didn't play in his specific game.

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

I find her accusations against Zach to be pretty bad.

She's voting him for seeing similar play? The way she makes his actions out to be is "Zach, you said Pjo is playing like Faraday". Zach could have avoided this situation altogether by not even mentioning the other game.

I'm willing to let Tierce take this further since she has a better feel for Zach's play, but I think that reason is completely bunk.

She's now voting me, not Zach.

And...?

At least I can agree with her vote on you.

[Oversoul]

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

Time together in team mafia?
You weren't on his team and you didn't play in his specific game.

What? Where do you think my BEST TOWN PERFORMANCE scummy came from? (noob zach had to get himself shot to prevent our wonderful townsweep)

I am going to assume you are talking about 2011/2010 scummies then?

[Oversoul]

I found the answer, Katsuki.
Are you really one to use 2 year old meta? Or meta even at all?

[Oversoul]

I'm on a picnic and would appreciate if nothing stupid was done before I have access to a computer again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Oversoul]

I'm not entirely sure I like how the Tierce and Zach interaction ended. It looks like it was charging up to be something big and then it just ends abruptly.

If I have no more interest in pushing him, I won't continue harping on something. That'd be a ridiculous waste of effort and everyone's patience.

It was the way you did it that I didn't like.
Zach voted someone else and then you unvoted Zach...

From my perspective and attention (deficit) I thought you were voting Zach because of his vote, and then once he changes it for rather weak reasons in my opinion you also change your opinion for rather weak reasons.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not entirely sure I've actually seen Katsuki be ACTIVE in a game before but I'm glad!

Therefor, "non-true" activity has no impact on it.
So, spam is utterly irrelevant to it.

As much as I appreciate you being this helpful... Why?

For the record, I am pretty sure true activity means activity across more than a couple of players, spam not included.

I have to read up on my Sword meta. I don't remember his aggressiveness despite my pretty good (selective) memory.

OS is probstown.

Yup.

Too many townreads are floating around and not enough scum reads but I guess I can't talk much.

I'll be back later.
That was a lie.

[Oversoul]

Tierce & Matt, kiss and make up.



There all better

Zzz

[Oversoul]

I actually can't help you there since I haven't read your posts.
I should probably do that.

[Oversoul]

I thought scum only had a QT during nightphases?
If so then this is silly.
Or are pregame QTs actually a thing?
Sounds useless, theres like nothing to talk about without any posts.

aaaaaand pjovek is town

Why?
You don't think scum feign this type of behavior? You don't think scum are capable of creating this type of post?

I wouldn't say you are tunneling Zach. You are certainly approaching that point so keep that in mind.

You quoting Zach's original reasoning for the Pjo vote did remind me of something that I didn't like about the post.

[Oversoul]

Whenever people say etc I never know what that is supposed to mean.

No I cannot read your mind.

[Oversoul]

Matt you are like the only one who will ever complain at not being scum enough

[Oversoul]

Oversoul any time you feel like not being useless it'd be great. Either shape up or get out. Sideline posts that have nothing to do with the game and zero content are ridiculous.

Katsuki is probably Town if Antagon is scum. MattP is scum regardless. Actually rather nice pile of Townreads if -things-, so etc.

Sorry? I take it you think I am town, which I guess my battle is half won.
I am actually contributing to a crucial wagon while you're... making noise I guess? about MattP. If you have any questions about my MattP read, follow Katsuki's logic about Whimsy flip > Matt's alignment.

But I will make more (serious?) posts tonight.

[Oversoul]

Hmm...
UNVOTE:

Need to think about this...

[Oversoul]

Was the bolded ever answered?

No.
Although I made my suspicions for the answer clear after she linked me to Mafia with the Kitties. Look through my iso. It is the first big post in a sea of shorter posts.

I talk about the possible set-up there.

This is implying that you have other possible actions that you can take... and given what you're claiming, that shouldn't be the case?

Why did it take you this long to reach this obvious conclusion?

Either way, I think the correct action is to flush Poo seeing as there is no way we would be able to get information on his role unless he targets the killer and the killer targets him which is pretty... unlikely especially now that he claimed?

Also, what exactly does Poo have to do with the Sky, Antagon?

...so HP leaves said he was going to contribute soon. 36 hours ago. Did he actually do anything?

He lives in Turkey which is quite the place not to be, so take that into consideration.
He also just came off a week long V/LA which absolutely no posts so also take that into consideration. (b")

[Oversoul]

Also, replacements murder the battery.

[Oversoul]

@oversoul: And yet you are not voting for poo.

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

[Oversoul]

OS, where's your paranoia? Has that evaporated from your play? You just finished a game where you and Tierce were partners, right? You're not paranoid of her at all?

Well at least this makes you more than likely town. I guess you could say that I am not as paranoid as I was in months past mainly because I don't give a fuck after being mislynched twice (not going into this look it up for yourself) but also because I am not being very public about my opinions?

I guess paranoia is still apart of my game (see First Time Mafia Neighbor QT with regards to Inducting DrippingGoofBall into the Best Neighborhood Ever) but that makes me ask you a question. Do you find paranoia and suspicion to be mutually exclusive? I wouldn't say that I am exactly "paranoid" about Tierce but I am definitely suspicious. I think my posts show that mentality quite well actually. :shrug:

Whimsical Eggplant, are you Mastin

Why did you ask this when in the sign up thread after you asked whose alt he was, he told you noones just an old account he forgot the information of?

Long story short, the post wasn't trying to deduce alignment. It was for my general knowledge.
I think I was right though. Either that or it was Tar. :shrug:

Oh before I forget I'm rethinking both of my zach and OS leaning town reads.

Oh dear Tammy, this is where we start to have problems.
Are you starting to renege your town read on me because I'm not obviously paranoid and I asked Whimsical a game irrelevant question?

pedit:

Thought process about the unvote was... I need to think about this!

I had similar thoughts to Zach about the claim being too strong for it to be scum. Then I had thoughts about the wording not making sense and it being a fakeclaim. Then I noticed something else that Antagon posted that made go back to thinking the claim might be town.

I still haven't made up my mind but there is a lot of misunderstanding going on with that slot I think.
I'd be curious to know if anyone else saw the "something else that Antagon posted". I think it is quite obvious but no one made a comment about it yet.

If I had to go with a lynch right now I think I would let Antagon die but there is just a lot of set-up spec going through my mind that I'm not sure I want to follow.

[Oversoul]

You had me second guessing myself there, enomis.

But yes, that is it.
Since you found it, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I have my own. And I'll post them within the hour, but I do want discussion on that post.

I just wanted its discovery to be naturally found by someone else.

[Oversoul]

Or not...

[Oversoul]

OS - I'm not quoting your post but it's Post 631 I'm responding too. (I don't feel like going to a computer right now)

It's not necessarily that. The way I read you is by a feeling I get when you post. There's just something in your tone, I guess, that when you're town I've been able to pick up on. It was missing when I followed along in Khans game. It was something that was missing in black flag too, though you did the fake ate quite well. I thought I saw a spark of your townish posts earlier but then that disappeared. You seem more, mechanical, maybe? I don't really kow how to explain it.

If you had doubts about my alignment though, why werent you interacting with me?

Paranoia and suspicion are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but paranoia tends to have the element of the irrational. Me getting paranoid of empire in yoloville for instance was irrational. The things I suspected was legitimate but he was extremely obvious town, so it was silly. You being paranoid about tierce and fake day killing her because her claim reminded you of when she was scum and you thought she was fooling you was irrational. Your hyper paranoia of ces in team mafia was similar.

So yes you've shown suspicion of tierce, but it feels muted. Like its not real suspicion or it's not something that you feel. I don't get the sense that you feel like she's fooling anyone, or potentially fooling you.

Even your "oh dear Tammy this is where we start to have problems" feels off. I'm starting to doubt my town read of you because you don't feel town. It doesn't mean I'm scum reading you, I'm just not town reading you and am looking at you a bit more closely.

Pedit: that's perfect syry

Hmm...
That's interesting. I've never really had someone go deep into my meta.

I'm not sure where you get the fact that I was very overtly suspicious of you? From my comment about you being more than likely town? I had a feeling that you were town but once you started having suspicions about me after calling me town is what sealed the deal, especially as no one has been chiming up about my alignment and you brought it up on your own volition.

I really don't know how to tell that I am town because you read me through tone but yes I did change my playstyle.
I think you might be able to see the difference in Fortnight as that was the beginning of the change when DGB, Kuribo, and Tbone were just hammering it into the rail that I was scum because I was playing "weird". I mean.. you can look across everything (please don't make me explain this) to see if my play has changed overall or if it is different here. I would argue it has. It has changed because I'm not trying to get as emotionally invested into games as I used to since playing mafia seems much easier that way. I took things pretty personally before and saw shadows in the dark (if this game is still going on and certain events occur) I'll explain. I got bitter about being lynched, about getting accused of being scum, about being wrong with my scum reads. These things would carry over into real life where I would be agitated or angry if people started accusing me of things and the mood wouldn't go away until I forgot about things. I'm trying to make mafia less in-tune with my life and be less serious about it.
I don't know if it has really helped me in mafia but it has certainly helped me that I'm not distracted during the day by the emotions brought on by mafia.

For now, I guess all I can say is to wait. I'll answer anything you have for me but I don't know if that will help anything or clear your uncertainty about me.

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

@oversoul: What you want me to say about this? Probably he mistook it that death of the apocalypse role would make it night for the rest of the day? Well, both scum and town would make a mistake with this. I don't see the point of you bringing up this post.

Well a couple of things ran through my mind...

The first is... How the hell is someone so oblivious to what this game actually is? The second is... this looks fake as fuck a la "stupid scum" trying to look like town that doesn't actually "know". It was why I originally suspected Benmage in Fortnight... and well... yeah. The third is... do scum have day talk?

I remember in the last Large that Vi ran (Mafia Behind the Maiden) that I think the scum did have daytalk. The fourth is... if Scum have daytalk, why would Antagon post that? Because surely the scum would have coached for that claim.

I wanted to see if anyone else picked up on that but apparently not.

I'm not entirely sure that I think Matt thought that up on his own. He suspects that post is fake as fuck too.
I need to see if his posts "tell" the tonal story of suspicion around that post.

[Oversoul]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

It isn't that I don't think you are capable, it is that I feel you of all people would have brought it up before I brought it up when talking to enomis.

[Oversoul]

I mean I wish I could trust you on that alone matt, but you only brought it up after I did so I'm pretty wary of things

[Oversoul]

"hm oversoul says something that I wanna pretend I thought of myself, so I'mma post the thing that Oversoul said acting like I didn't see he already said it for towncred"

My thought process for you was more...

"Hmm oversoul posted something, let me jump on it to make myself look town"
Your subsequent posts were designed to protect that original thought process.

I know I'm ridiculous but you have to get used to it.

[Oversoul]

I'm going to sleep, and I want to hear what syryana has to say about ffery first as I think he's wrong. And I want antagon to give his role name. His claim and the way he made it doesn't make sense.

Why did you ask that?
From your own PM it should be apparent that role names aren't given.

[Oversoul]

Please don't discuss this anymore ffery. I fucked up and this could be a very bad situation.

[Oversoul]

.He attacked me and ADDED words to my posts to try and paint me as scum lurking on D1 by emphasizing on the words he added...how is that not scummy as hell?

He did this?
I've always wanted to just straight up lie to the town as a scum by altering their posts but I've never actually seen it done

[Oversoul]

Why do you think so?

[Oversoul]

Well it is night time right now

[Oversoul]

Antagon did not softclaim anything (he was talking about the Apocalypse mechanic, which means it makes sense for some roles to be somewhat more powerful), and it's pretty understandable if he got the mechanic definition wrong. It doesn't make it Night for the rest of the game, but it makes it Instant Night and very fast Days.

I'm curious to know what exactly it is that you are trying to answer here.

[Oversoul]

Gg no re if you think I'm scum

[Oversoul]

I'm not gonna lie I had bad thoughts about Sword when he joined the game for two reasons.

The first is that... I don't think I've ever seen him curse like that in an opening post. The second reason is that... I don't think I've ever seen him post a reads list like that when "replacing" into a game from his V/LA. And he commonly is not present at the start of games because of his weekend V/LA.

[Oversoul]

Ya... I'm sorry if Antagon's role is legit but the game has stagnated too long.

VOTE: Antagon

I find Whimsical's viewpoints on the mass claim to be an attempt to look town by protecting the town from a mass claim.
I find Antagon's claim post to be very sketchy, especially given the fact that he has that weird clause in the role. I find the role itself to be pretty ridiculous as well.
I find his naivety about the Instant Night to be fake as well.

So... choo choo.

[Oversoul]

I feel like Tierce got busted changing her read on Antagon for a bad reason and is floundering to try to justify it.

Just woke up but I feel the same. Tierce has been weak sauce recently trying to get the wagon she was voting for.
Her comment about not liking my vote also doesn't carry the same bravado that I think she would have if she was town.

[Oversoul]

Also, Vi going to be out of town for a couple of days. Dot know how long. Not more than 4/5 though.

[Oversoul]

Quick question, Tierce
When did you stop being able to have fun?

[Oversoul]

Umm I remember a post by someone but you know... Lol rollback.
It was actually going to be important for my scum reads... But alas... Roll back.

I'll be... Here tomorrow.
Tierce I am curious how I went from "shape up you easy lynch even if you are town" to "sigh misreading me probably town" without ever really doing much in the mean time?

[Oversoul]

Also I find Syrana's "confusion" to be utter bs and I would not mind his death at all. Read a la Benmage "too stupid"

[Oversoul]

Who was the person who compared another player to Fate or something? I vaguely remember that. I think I had a townread on that person because of that post

[Oversoul]

Don't argue with Tierce, Amrun.

It isn't worth it.

I think it is the ... Brutally honest type personality clash. Emphasis on brutal.

[Oversoul]

Like I said... Ignorance is a scum tell. I'm willing to kill HP over it but I would like a definitive cop on Tierce.
And by that I mean a vig kill.

Because you can't frame or fuck a vig shot.

I'm also willing to kill Syr over the ignorance thing.
I'm Also willing to kill Matt over that but I think he was legitimate. But you all need to reevaluate life choices if you thought a Demise flip was town. His curse is the reason Ganondorf exists in the Legend of Zelda series.

[Oversoul]

His curse is the reason Ganondorf exists in the Legend of Zelda series.

Wtf are you a nerd??

well duh but that is neither here nor there

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

Now we are getting somewhere!

I don't understand why you all are flipping out about the double vote?

Two scum teams is pretty... uh... not like Vi in my experience. It changes the balance of things.
But I'm waiting Tierce to actually do something today so I can solidify my town?read on her.

[Oversoul]

Of course Oversoul asks for a vig kill on me. We couldn't have it otherwise. :hitoshrug:

You can italicize all yo uwant but I am serious

pedit: yes third party, not two scum teams

[Oversoul]

Probably no more double vote actually
VOTE: hp

Claim
Although I think you've roasted in the oven too long and well you have to be the lynch
I think that most recent post looks town though

[Oversoul]

I don't think I've actually read anything today aside from a few posts so if he claimed I missed it
I don't know if we have the will power (not man power) to muster up an alternative lynch

[Oversoul]

Umm... Actually I think HP is dead... I think Vi missed Tierves vote on him

[Oversoul]

Never mind. Tierce actually hasn't voted once this day. I mistook her vote from yesterday as one for today.
Tiere why have you been so useless today

[Oversoul]

14) Zachrulez - Mallow (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla -

Sublimed Night 1.

1) enomis - Infel (from Ar Tonelico), Town Cultilante -

Impaled Night 1...

5) MattP - Rosalina (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla -

Impaled Night 2.

I TOLD YOU. I told you Zach was not the mafia shot.

(It's kind of sad when this is what I derive some comfort from.)

That was obvious? Enomis was widely regarded as town and not a big name so unlikely to get protected. If a vig shot Enomis we are going to have problems. The fact that they shot Zach is already... Just wow.
But you should end playing the games, it is getting incredibly transparent.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Tierce

[Oversoul]

Flail? Who is flailing?

A few things I have issues with is your... Detachment from this game.
It's how I knew you were scum before replacing into Xyl.
And how am I personally supposed to know why you are busy?

[Oversoul]

Ffery, I make sure that my reasons (so far) are unintelligible to outsiders

[Oversoul]

I'm the only insider unless you are telling me people are in my mind

[Oversoul]

I'm at work Which is when I do all of my "uhh let's annoy Tierce" posts. Then I get home and I am too tired so I just plod along contributing votes where I feel comfortable.
But I'll get to You tonight.

[Oversoul]

That's fine, ffery
This game has that effect on people

[Oversoul]

I have has revelations but I'm busy right now.
I'll post tonight.

[Oversoul]

Enomis was the vig. There is no SK.

Zach was killed by Enomis, Enomis/Matt were killed by mafia. Now we can stop with setup spec.

You're the only other person who has a grasp on this game it seems.

My revelations was that Tierce is probably town. Normally I would try to get her riled up because I can really only read her correctly when she flares up and lashes out at people but for whatever reason she is restraining herself in this game, give or take a few posts here and there.

I was originally going to call her out for the fact that she kept using her new List Mod status as an activity crutch given the fact that she volunteered for the position and has no one to blame but herself. After thinking about it work, I feel that she is more likely to be town because well as scum I don't think she would be blatantly this bad. I think she's already played the "too scummy/bad to be scum" card as scum before... someone can correct me if I am wrong. I found her whole ordeal with Zach to be incredibly stupid and Zach to be pretty townie, especially after her flaccid diversion away from Zach. I really wish that the minor reset didn't happen because I was waiting for her to comment on Katsuki trying to attribute Fate's play to MattP which was literally what Tierce's whole argument hinged upon when she was going after Zach but was actually the correct application of the point she was trying to make. But you know, I can't have nice things. I was trying to make oblique hints at that post earlier in the day waiting to see if Tierce would ever take the bait or actually in my opinion... scumhunt but well...

that would be nice things

. She didn't comment on it within Matt's lifespan so it is essentially a moot point now. Although I guess I can take her vote on Katsuki to be indicative that she has other problems with him, which I am happy about and is generally what makes me feel better about her being town.

re: Matt's death, I'm not really going to get into it at all. It seems like such a useless endeavor at this point because there are two many possibilities and I'd rather just go on things I can still interact with.

I have a quick question for ffery. Do you have a meta relationship with Bacde? Do you guys play together often?

[Oversoul]

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

[Oversoul]

K.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Oversoul]

Having no one but myself to blame doesn't mean I didn't spend two nights (due to the crash--had to redo pretty much everything on the site) updating stuff, and then trying to patch up my fail sleep schedule + other stuff. You have no one but yourself to blame for work, yet you also use it as an activity crutch, so lay off--there's evidence everywhere that I was busy.

As for being "this bad", that is tremendously rich coming from someone whose largest contribution to the game yet was today, the 27th. I have been sharing and discussing reads when I have them, and if you can't be bothered to read my posts where this is painfully evident, well, that is your problem, not mine, and you "have no one to blame but yourself". Unlike some people I could name, I HAVE been scumhunting.

This is exactly what I am talking about.

You go into these explanations about why you are not present when you could simply say... you're busy. That is the crutch I am talking about. I don't understand why you feel the constant need to reassure people you'll be around and that you haven't forgot about the game when you're Tierce. We all (mostly) know you take this very seriously. Which is also why I put in pointed words and phrases to ruffle your fur. We know you'll get around to it eventually, unless you are scum. Your repetitive "crutch" made me think you felt self-conscious about your overall activity and appearance in the town, a trait that I haven't associated with your town play.

re: the bad, I wasn't the one who tried to steer away a scum lynch onto a lurker. Bad was about as general a description of your play as I could give. I did not like the fact that you came into today saying "All my suspects are dying, hehe". I thought that was bad.
I did not like your reasoning for going after Zach. That was bad. I did not like your reasoning from moving away from a Zach wagon. That was bad. I did not like the fact that you gunned for hp on two days. That was bad.

I don't mean it as a characteristic of you personally, Tierce. I just meant thus far I did not like your play and you hadn't done anything up to this point to make me think you were likely town. I hope you don't take my words personally. I do it in the hopes that you take a look at your own play and in the hopes that I will get the reaction I want from you.

[Oversoul]

Nothing ever seems to happen for you when you read ISOs, ffery.

[Oversoul]

I am going with my gut on this.
VOTE: Katsuki

Why are you so much more active than in First Time?

Pedit: why did you think I was referring to other games?

[Oversoul]

Well I will let you get back to your ISOs.

[Oversoul]

Hint: it goes to credibility.

I think there are 3 scum total, so 2 left alive.

[Oversoul]

Katsuki is one. I'll tell you my second and third at a later time.

Pedit: I think Vi thinks Vigs are more harmful to town than scum. Probably should have asked Tierce about that. :/

[Oversoul]

I think we should all vote Katsuki.

[Oversoul]

Why did you all think someone else was a vig when enomis flipped with half the word in his role?

[Oversoul]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

[Oversoul]

I take it you didn't read the flavor associated with the flip either?

[Oversoul]

Ninja alliance?
Those weird avatars? Like the one Parama had?

[Oversoul]

14) Zachrulez - Mallow (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla - Sublimed Night 1.

1) enomis - Infel (from Ar Tonelico), Town Cultilante - Impaled Night 1...

6) hp [leaves] replacing mrbungle D1 - Sheba (from Golden Sun), Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 2.
5) MattP - Rosalina (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla - Impaled Night 2.
3) implosion - Fi (from The Legend of Zelda), Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 3.

Well... I can understand being mildly confused by the word Cultilante because it just looks weird, but not when it implies that the role had some sort of killing power.

I also don't understand how people can confuse that Zach certainly did not kill himself, and neither did Enomis.

And with that swan song, a shooting star could be seen falling through the sky... The satellite Infel Phira.
You feel the removal of an invisible force that permeated the island's presence...

...and then a feeling of vulnerability as waves of foreboding flood over you.


Get ready.

This also pretty much clears the air of any doubt that Infel was the Apocalypse role.
I honestly don't know trains of logic people were on when thinking about the mechanics of the game thus far presented.

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

If you think I'm scum for this then well... good luck.

Overall it is that I don't find Katsuki to be town.

So I guess you can say it is gut.



I hope that explains everything.

[Oversoul]

To actually answer your question Sryana...

I did not like Katsuki being active from the start of the game where in the recent past, all I have known him to be is a lurker who continuely avoids prods to stay in the game without ever really investing himself.

I missed his hey-day where he was active and everything was bliss, so to see him go against his town meta in First Time it set off alarm bells. Especially when he made the post saying that he is active when he likes his scumbuddies and has competent players on his team.

Looking back through my ISO, it should be apparent that there have been some misgivings about Katsuki's play. I ask him questions that don't really jive with what is going on. Some people don't consider that scumhunting but it helps me get a better grasp of the game so that when I think about everything together I can begin to formulate reads based on play.

But... Tierce dying last night has made me question the nightkill choices, which in my opinion lead to Katsuki.

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

In this post, I find Katsuki trying to buddy up with Tierce while also taking her read of Zach for himself. I don't like that because I find Katsuki as town to be the type that doesn't care about other players opinions.

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

This post is probably my biggest problem with Katsuki. He is trying to push the Zach wagon ever so softly by using ambiguous language that seems based on meta.

When I ask him about it he goes on to give me a really large explanation with examples that don't really matter in the specific situation and overall the read on Zach looks fake.

This is Katsuki's explanation:

I found the answer, Katsuki.
Are you really one to use 2 year old meta? Or meta even at all?

I've only ever played one game with him before so.

I use gut-meta heavily. It's how I catch onto players like Kuribo, Faraday, Fate, Mina, DGB, mith, etc. I mix it into what I'm seeing in the current game. Long story short, read primarily based on game and what I'm seeing (+ heavy amounts of gut), and if my gut has not been wrong before then I tie that in.

For example, I am never wrong when it comes to reading Kuribo or Spyspy, my gut is always right. All I have to do is simply skim over their posts, and my gut gives me an instant read.

He states that he is using gut-meta reasoning for his read on Zach. Now there is no problem with this really because everyone has their own way to discern alignment but it also gives Katsuki a very large door to change his reads as he sees fit.

Katsuki tries to pad his reading skills through gut-meta by giving examples of reading some renowned players, but what he doesn't explain is that he has extensive meta with those players. Kuribo and Katsuki were friends before they started to play mafia on Mafiascum. Faraday, Fate, Spyrex, Mina, DGB, and mith are all from that era of activity where Katsuki played often and played actively. Of course he is going to be able to use his gut-meta style to read those players, that isn't a feat unique to Katsuki. Players who play with each other often are going to be able to read each other more effectively just from looking at their posts.

However, Katsuki has only played

1

game with Zach and he thinks that qualifies him to be able to use gut-meta to read him. On top of that, the game was

2

years ago. Does that read and reasoning stand the test of time? I don't think so. I think it was Katsuki over-explaining his methodology in order to look better to the town.

In addition to that, Katsuki's activity has generally gotten worse as this game has progressed. I can't really definitively say that given the Apocalypse mechanic skews things but I don't know who Katsuki's suspicions were yesterday and who he really suspects today. On top of that, he also has been trying to push lynches more quickly than normal without really contributing much to the discussion at hand. Fanning the fires without adding any wood.

Now we get to enter tinfoil territory...

The nightkills have been unconventional to the say the least. I agree that Matt's death is odd but I think there is still analysis to be gained from it.

Katsuki asks Matt in this post where he is in Matt's reads as Matt had previously had him as scum

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

I think this is key as it makes perfect sense for Katsuki to silence Matt now

after

he has posted his reads list and is stating Katsuki. Why? Because the dead townie is calling you town, and it wouldn't make sense for scum to kill their supporters as well as the fact that if Matt was wrong, you are giving the town more

bad

information when they decide to lynch somebody. This reads list is the perfect excuse to get rid of Matt because naturally people will think that Matt was killed for his scumreads and if scum were within his townreads they have the ultimate red herring to use. So far, 3 people on that list have flipped town and if there are scum on that list, why the fuck would they shoot him and confirm his accuracy? Unless he wasn't that accurate to begin with at all. Only 3 more people are left from Matt's original list and I have a feeling that at most only 1 of his scum reads was correct.

Matt is a good player but he was under a lot of pressure. Additionally, he had just supplied a reads list. Why would scum throw away the chance at a mislynch like that especially since the pool of his scumreads was still diluted enough to by some time? They knew he wasn't going to be protected because of his suspicion if there is any protection to begin with. They knew that people would gobble up the reads list as the reasoning he was killed.

In addition to Matt's death, we have Tierce's death too. Tierce was one of the main two people pushing for Katsuki's death at the end of the day. Zdenek is the primary Katsuki pusher. I was on that wagon but I didn't really have much force other than the vote. He can't kill Zdenek without flat out claiming scum. Tierce was widely regarded as town by the end of yesterday so it only makes logical sense that the scum are trying to keep the game away from being a PoE-fest, but there also is the fact that Tierce is a good player when things click for her. So far, things weren't really clicking for her but I think she was finally starting to get into something with her vote on Katsuki. With Tierce's death, the remaining scum could a) get rid of a common town read among a lot of players, b) get rid of a formidable foe, and c) if Katsuki is scum, kill one of his aggressors.

The way Katsuki replied to Tierce's accusations against him were mainly to brush off her suspicions and just say that she was wrong. It makes sense for him to not answer her anymore if in 3 days she is going to bed and there are other plausible reasons for her death. At the end of the day yesterday, Katsuki votes Implosion stating the he was voting him for being a deadline lynch. He never really tried to get his scumspect, Tierce, lynched yesterday but he was more than happy to put Implosion at L-1 without dirtying his hands really.

As for my second scumread, Sryana, well. It is Amrun. I don't really buy that with her activity she would be all over the place with set-up spec and being wrong about so many things.

I don't really like her most recent revelation about Implosion as it looks like scum trying to distance themselves from a bad town mislynch in order to make themselves look good and divert attention to the people on that mislynch. I did not like the buddying that Katsuki and Amrun did early in the game and it ties into my theory about Katsuki being more active because he liked the players on his team especially when he asked if Matt would think playing with Amrun scum would be fun. Additionally, I don't really even know who her scumspects are. She has seemed to be troubled at the idea of Sryana and ffery saying that their interaction was a scum on town interaction but now I think she is even throwing that idea out of the window. She seems more "confused" about the set-up and her posts other than fighting with Tierce and Tammy haven't been the inspective ones I would think of Amrun. She is too wrapped up in the set-up to scumhunt and I think she is playing that way so she doesn't have to scumhunt and can just contribute a vote at deadline if she needs to.

I admit the Amrun read hinges upon Katsuki scum but she is definitely on my watch. I will admit she has done something recently which I feel is probably town, but I won't disclose that reason right now.

My third scumread will remain a mystery until I see it appropriate to reveal.

[Oversoul]

I'm not afraid of Tierce.

Why is the fact that I provided content at this time scummy?

[Oversoul]

I am Settzer Gabiani an albino gambler from the Final Fantasy universe.
I was kinda surprised that the character was featured in a "sky" game but apparently I have an airship so that qualifies.

I want Amrun to claim next.

[Oversoul]

whoops

VT

[Oversoul]

Lol I am about 2/3 right on the setup spec so far Tierce

[Oversoul]

I think Amrun is town, if only for Pjo's eagerness to get a universe claim.
I find the role likely to be town.
Amrun, Vi likely gave a "flavor" godfather of sorts but I think you should have a lot of information. I wouldn't be surprised if you are The PR of the game currently.

[Oversoul]

Katsuki which mislynches have I been pushing?

Tammy, if you don't understand that I've been trying a play style after ... things, then well maybe I'm being too obscure in getting people to think beyond the confines of a single game.

To answer your question, I don't have an ability or a role. Look at Altaria where it says she is aligned with the town. VT or even townie is no where in that PM and mine is structured in that same way without a role.
When ffery said she had one and then you said so too, I thought I had inadvertently pointed out the possibility that you and/or ffery were PRs which is why I asked that we didn't talk anymore of it (at the time).

[Oversoul]

Wait. How the fuck does your role even work

[Oversoul]

Oh my god that sounds horrible as a role.

[Oversoul]

I really thought that was a traditional flavor cop... Hmm. This make me question things...

Especially possible fake claims that Vi could have given to the mafia (if they are all as ridiculous as Antagon's)
Definitely do the double universe claim because we get the most bang for the buck

[Oversoul]

I'm going to bed now. My best bet is on Katsuki and I've said my piece about him

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Katsuki

Why wouldn't you offer to self hammer?

[Oversoul]

1. There were two of you and the claims seemed kinda weird with the flavor
2. My secret scum read was on Tammy, I thought she was going to claim a PR and she didn't and then I had suspicions when she messed up the flavor of her claim

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Katsuki

Why wouldn't you offer to self hammer?

Yeah I'll offer to self-hammer at 4 in the morning at L3.

VOTE: OVERSOUL

Why not try to make a lynch possible?

Answer my question from the previous page.

What mislynches was I pushing?

[Oversoul]

I'll get to this tomorrow hopefully

[Oversoul]

I don't have Internet access except for spotty Internet where I am so I won't get to this until tomorrow when I am able to get to a hotspot

[Oversoul]

internet messed up still
tomorrow the internet company checks on things but I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night anyway. Today was my only day off

Enjoy

[Oversoul]

I saw this

@oversoul: And yet you are not voting for poo.

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

All you did was" I need to think about this".

Explain your unvote since you already 'realized' the implications of the wording and you think the correct action was to lynch him.

and realized that Oversoul is probably scum.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Other points about OS on day 1.
Oversoul's 253 ignores everything that is going on at the time. Pjo had started trolling me and SoO, and Whimsy was at L-1/L-2.
In fairness, his vote was on Whimsy, but his vote there in a post where he didn't comment on Whimsy at all.

There's also the post where Oversoul asked Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up. Up until then, he thought Matt was town, but criticized Tierce for pushing a bad argument against Zach, and was suspicious of her for how her interaction with Zach ended. I think asking them to kiss and make-up is something that one would say to town reads that are fighting, not to a town-read and to a someone who's other interactions you have found questionable.

Erm... no.
I unvoted him because I wanted to think about his claim and how he was posting.

The reason I ignored everything else was because of the fact that nothing else was really going on. I made my reasoning and thinking abundantly clear that day. What are you confused about?

Telling Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up has nothing to do with their alignments and more so there hospitality towards one another. I don't like reading fights between people and it was obviously not solving anything. You're reading too much into it. Although people recently across the board have been really skiddish when it comes to posts that are not de facto "I am scumhunting" which is a real shame since this is a game and all and as I have repeated multiple times, people do not play the same as others.

re: your suspicions about me thinking the role was too strong to be scum, my intention was that the role was too weird for it to be a fakeclaim. Normally I consider weird things to come from town more often than scum because scum don't want that kind of attention whereas town just tell it how it is.

it is why I made the reference to Zach's opinions because I remember him thinking roughly the same thing about the claim.

I'm waiting on fery to get back to me on it to see if I'm crazy or not.

Why are you so concerned with fery's read on me?
She is, if anyone, definitely not the authority on Oversoul meta. If you are looking for "please tell me I'm not insane" you should be more concerned about SoO's opinions. He knows my play probably better than anyone on this site.

I could vote Sryana for his weirdness surrounding thinking that Whimsical/Antagon flipped town. I generally think that scum try to feign confusion about obvious things in order to look town. His confusion over that also gives me pause because he was the only other one to state that enomis was the scum kill because of flavor.

It doesn't make sense.

Also, his ffery scum read didn't change at all apparently given the revelation that Antagon flipped scum and not town like he previously assumed.

I don't really think much of his earlier posts. But I'd be lying if I said that I thought he was more scummy than Katsuki.
More Katsuki votes.

[Oversoul]

Amrun scum wins another against me... I shall not let that happen again!

Sword we were supposed to be town bros together!