Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Oversoul]

Why did you all think someone else was a vig when enomis flipped with half the word in his role?

[Syryana]

Syr, earlier you said that sleeping Tierce wins games, yesterday you sheeped Tammy over Tierce. I'm trying to figure out what you were thinking at the time.

Tierce was being weird this game and her reads haven't been so hot. I trusted Tammy over Tierce when sheeping last night for that reason.

Katsuki is one. I'll tell you my second and third at a later time.

Okay, I see more bluntness is required.
WHY
do
you
think
Katsuki
is
scum
?

I still think that ffery is town. Syryana your scum read on ffery is reminding me of in th dinner party when you went after someone day one for not doing something you expected them to do.

There is a world of difference between my read on fery now and my read on MeowMix then. I made a case on MM not responding to a joke I made from a game we'd played shortly before. My case on fery now is a lot more detailed. To be quite honest (sorry fery), if fery is in fact town this is far and away the most blatantly awful game I've ever seen her play. The only thing that even comes close is the popcorn game (in which she was also scum).

Why are you so convinced fery is town?

Why did you all think someone else was a vig when enomis flipped with half the word in his role?

There is even more obvious evidence for Enomis-vig than that. I don't understand why people are still acting like it's some kind of relevant discussion.

[Oversoul]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

[Amrun]

The idea didn't even occur to me because combining the apocalypse role with a vig is even more swingy. Like did not even drop into my mind once.

Huh.

[Oversoul]

I take it you didn't read the flavor associated with the flip either?

[Katsuki]

I am going with my gut on this.
VOTE: Katsuki

Why are you so much more active than in First Time?

Pedit: why did you think I was referring to other games?

Because I had RL stuff going on? I mean, it was hard for me to be active when I had read only about 3 pages out of 18 when I finally got into the game.

Plus, I'm usually very active in games when I have the time to play it (or if I'm not disinterested in it). There is a reason why I was part of the ninja alliance.


Either way, that wagon yesterday was shit. It's either SOO or Oversoul for me right now, and depending on readthrough of syry/ffrey interaction

[Oversoul]

Ninja alliance?
Those weird avatars? Like the one Parama had?

[Zdenek]

Syry, why did you sheep Tammy over Tierce yesterday?

I've been wrestling with that question myself.

Tierce was being weird this game and her reads haven't been so hot. I trusted Tammy over Tierce when sheeping last night for that reason.

This looks like bs to me.

[Syryana]

What does the middle quote have anything to do with it?

[Syryana]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

[Zdenek]

What does the middle quote have anything to do with it?

Literally everything.

[Zdenek]

Oh wait I see. You weren't responding to that.

[Amrun]

I take it you didn't read the flavor associated with the flip either?

No lol. Was it relevant? Guessing yes. >.>

[Syryana]

No lol. Was it relevant? Guessing yes. >.>

Zach was "sublimed". If you click the link in Enomis' flip, the first word you see is "sublimed".

[Amrun]

Ah, well, that's logical... I'm doing almost all of this on my phone which makes link clicking unlikely to occur.

[fferyllt]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

Do you think Katsuki is town?

[Oversoul]

14) Zachrulez - Mallow (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla - Sublimed Night 1.

1) enomis - Infel (from Ar Tonelico), Town Cultilante - Impaled Night 1...

6) hp [leaves] replacing mrbungle D1 - Sheba (from Golden Sun), Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 2.
5) MattP - Rosalina (from the Mario series), Town Vanilla - Impaled Night 2.
3) implosion - Fi (from The Legend of Zelda), Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 3.

Well... I can understand being mildly confused by the word Cultilante because it just looks weird, but not when it implies that the role had some sort of killing power.

I also don't understand how people can confuse that Zach certainly did not kill himself, and neither did Enomis.

And with that swan song, a shooting star could be seen falling through the sky... The satellite Infel Phira.
You feel the removal of an invisible force that permeated the island's presence...

...and then a feeling of vulnerability as waves of foreboding flood over you.


Get ready.

This also pretty much clears the air of any doubt that Infel was the Apocalypse role.
I honestly don't know trains of logic people were on when thinking about the mechanics of the game thus far presented.

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

If you think I'm scum for this then well... good luck.

Overall it is that I don't find Katsuki to be town.

So I guess you can say it is gut.



I hope that explains everything.

[Oversoul]

To actually answer your question Sryana...

I did not like Katsuki being active from the start of the game where in the recent past, all I have known him to be is a lurker who continuely avoids prods to stay in the game without ever really investing himself.

I missed his hey-day where he was active and everything was bliss, so to see him go against his town meta in First Time it set off alarm bells. Especially when he made the post saying that he is active when he likes his scumbuddies and has competent players on his team.

Looking back through my ISO, it should be apparent that there have been some misgivings about Katsuki's play. I ask him questions that don't really jive with what is going on. Some people don't consider that scumhunting but it helps me get a better grasp of the game so that when I think about everything together I can begin to formulate reads based on play.

But... Tierce dying last night has made me question the nightkill choices, which in my opinion lead to Katsuki.

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

In this post, I find Katsuki trying to buddy up with Tierce while also taking her read of Zach for himself. I don't like that because I find Katsuki as town to be the type that doesn't care about other players opinions.

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

This post is probably my biggest problem with Katsuki. He is trying to push the Zach wagon ever so softly by using ambiguous language that seems based on meta.

When I ask him about it he goes on to give me a really large explanation with examples that don't really matter in the specific situation and overall the read on Zach looks fake.

This is Katsuki's explanation:

I found the answer, Katsuki.
Are you really one to use 2 year old meta? Or meta even at all?

I've only ever played one game with him before so.

I use gut-meta heavily. It's how I catch onto players like Kuribo, Faraday, Fate, Mina, DGB, mith, etc. I mix it into what I'm seeing in the current game. Long story short, read primarily based on game and what I'm seeing (+ heavy amounts of gut), and if my gut has not been wrong before then I tie that in.

For example, I am never wrong when it comes to reading Kuribo or Spyspy, my gut is always right. All I have to do is simply skim over their posts, and my gut gives me an instant read.

He states that he is using gut-meta reasoning for his read on Zach. Now there is no problem with this really because everyone has their own way to discern alignment but it also gives Katsuki a very large door to change his reads as he sees fit.

Katsuki tries to pad his reading skills through gut-meta by giving examples of reading some renowned players, but what he doesn't explain is that he has extensive meta with those players. Kuribo and Katsuki were friends before they started to play mafia on Mafiascum. Faraday, Fate, Spyrex, Mina, DGB, and mith are all from that era of activity where Katsuki played often and played actively. Of course he is going to be able to use his gut-meta style to read those players, that isn't a feat unique to Katsuki. Players who play with each other often are going to be able to read each other more effectively just from looking at their posts.

However, Katsuki has only played

1

game with Zach and he thinks that qualifies him to be able to use gut-meta to read him. On top of that, the game was

2

years ago. Does that read and reasoning stand the test of time? I don't think so. I think it was Katsuki over-explaining his methodology in order to look better to the town.

In addition to that, Katsuki's activity has generally gotten worse as this game has progressed. I can't really definitively say that given the Apocalypse mechanic skews things but I don't know who Katsuki's suspicions were yesterday and who he really suspects today. On top of that, he also has been trying to push lynches more quickly than normal without really contributing much to the discussion at hand. Fanning the fires without adding any wood.

Now we get to enter tinfoil territory...

The nightkills have been unconventional to the say the least. I agree that Matt's death is odd but I think there is still analysis to be gained from it.

Katsuki asks Matt in this post where he is in Matt's reads as Matt had previously had him as scum

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

What happened to that scum list that had me in it? ^^

I think this is key as it makes perfect sense for Katsuki to silence Matt now

after

he has posted his reads list and is stating Katsuki. Why? Because the dead townie is calling you town, and it wouldn't make sense for scum to kill their supporters as well as the fact that if Matt was wrong, you are giving the town more

bad

information when they decide to lynch somebody. This reads list is the perfect excuse to get rid of Matt because naturally people will think that Matt was killed for his scumreads and if scum were within his townreads they have the ultimate red herring to use. So far, 3 people on that list have flipped town and if there are scum on that list, why the fuck would they shoot him and confirm his accuracy? Unless he wasn't that accurate to begin with at all. Only 3 more people are left from Matt's original list and I have a feeling that at most only 1 of his scum reads was correct.

Matt is a good player but he was under a lot of pressure. Additionally, he had just supplied a reads list. Why would scum throw away the chance at a mislynch like that especially since the pool of his scumreads was still diluted enough to by some time? They knew he wasn't going to be protected because of his suspicion if there is any protection to begin with. They knew that people would gobble up the reads list as the reasoning he was killed.

In addition to Matt's death, we have Tierce's death too. Tierce was one of the main two people pushing for Katsuki's death at the end of the day. Zdenek is the primary Katsuki pusher. I was on that wagon but I didn't really have much force other than the vote. He can't kill Zdenek without flat out claiming scum. Tierce was widely regarded as town by the end of yesterday so it only makes logical sense that the scum are trying to keep the game away from being a PoE-fest, but there also is the fact that Tierce is a good player when things click for her. So far, things weren't really clicking for her but I think she was finally starting to get into something with her vote on Katsuki. With Tierce's death, the remaining scum could a) get rid of a common town read among a lot of players, b) get rid of a formidable foe, and c) if Katsuki is scum, kill one of his aggressors.

The way Katsuki replied to Tierce's accusations against him were mainly to brush off her suspicions and just say that she was wrong. It makes sense for him to not answer her anymore if in 3 days she is going to bed and there are other plausible reasons for her death. At the end of the day yesterday, Katsuki votes Implosion stating the he was voting him for being a deadline lynch. He never really tried to get his scumspect, Tierce, lynched yesterday but he was more than happy to put Implosion at L-1 without dirtying his hands really.

As for my second scumread, Sryana, well. It is Amrun. I don't really buy that with her activity she would be all over the place with set-up spec and being wrong about so many things.

I don't really like her most recent revelation about Implosion as it looks like scum trying to distance themselves from a bad town mislynch in order to make themselves look good and divert attention to the people on that mislynch. I did not like the buddying that Katsuki and Amrun did early in the game and it ties into my theory about Katsuki being more active because he liked the players on his team especially when he asked if Matt would think playing with Amrun scum would be fun. Additionally, I don't really even know who her scumspects are. She has seemed to be troubled at the idea of Sryana and ffery saying that their interaction was a scum on town interaction but now I think she is even throwing that idea out of the window. She seems more "confused" about the set-up and her posts other than fighting with Tierce and Tammy haven't been the inspective ones I would think of Amrun. She is too wrapped up in the set-up to scumhunt and I think she is playing that way so she doesn't have to scumhunt and can just contribute a vote at deadline if she needs to.

I admit the Amrun read hinges upon Katsuki scum but she is definitely on my watch. I will admit she has done something recently which I feel is probably town, but I won't disclose that reason right now.

My third scumread will remain a mystery until I see it appropriate to reveal.

[Amrun]

No, I'm not throwing anything out the window.

I still think ffery is scum. I just have unvoted and of course you should be wondering why but I have my reasons.

I have thought about it and decided to

VOTE: syryana

Even though he does have more of an excuse for not pushing ffery yesterday than "I had a headache," they are still pretty weird. (She was coming up with a superficial scum read on her BUDDY? What...?). But more importantly, he was pressured yesterday about it, didnt answer, and then today, said "I have a headache" and only later came up with some semblance of a response.

Piecemeal explanations are always more likely to come from scum.

I still prefer ffery for scum out of the pair but REASONS. If both of this pair is town I'll eat my boot.

[Amrun]

And for the record, if I couldn't lynch either of those two, Id want to lynch OS. His posts today haven't been terrible or anything but he's bed very underwhelming, even when finally posting something that can pass for content. Waiting until this point to provide that has been scummy. Especially because it comes after tierces death and I think he was scared of her, or at least that he would be as scum.

[fferyllt]

No, I'm not throwing anything out the window.

I still think ffery is scum. I just have unvoted and of course you should be wondering why but I have my reasons.

I have thought about it and decided to

VOTE: syryana

Even though he does have more of an excuse for not pushing ffery yesterday than "I had a headache," they are still pretty weird. (She was coming up with a superficial scum read on her BUDDY? What...?). But more importantly, he was pressured yesterday about it, didnt answer, and then today, said "I have a headache" and only later came up with some semblance of a response.

Piecemeal explanations are always more likely to come from scum.

I still prefer ffery for scum out of the pair but REASONS. If both of this pair is town I'll eat my boot.

This smells of lining up mislynches. Regardless of Syr's flip, I'm next. And you're blatant about not voting for the one of us who you 'prefer" as scum.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Amrun

[Oversoul]

I'm not afraid of Tierce.

Why is the fact that I provided content at this time scummy?

[Amrun]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

[fferyllt]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.