Death's Diner -Game Over-

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:43 am

In post 1365, roflcopter wrote:
In post 1364, TiphaineDeath wrote:I think he has been doing plenty of things with his posts if not with his vote.
define "plenty of things"

Why have you suddenly shifted to an aggressive town Rofl?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:44 am

*aggressive town meant aggressive tone in my previous posts.

I never read Rofl as aggressive, just trollish.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:46 am

TD - you remember how I said scum were attacking our confalignment? Yeah, this is pretty much it. Don't go along with their scum wagon, they attack.

I hate lynches for information purposes. :S I do them as a last resort.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:52 am

Mod: Can we get a prod on Baezu?

I always suspected Baezu was a scum driven wagon. I think Zoidberg is a much better target.

@Rofl, you've been trying to accomplish lynches

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:54 am

In post 1393, Xiao Long wrote:
In post 1340, roflcopter wrote:
if you flip town it really doesn't change my elvis read because she was independently scummy before i concluded you were scum, but your scum flip will make it easier to shuffle elvis along to join you in the graee
This is a few pages ago, but why wouldn't you vote for Elvis who you think will flip scum regardless of what Bro flips?
I'd actually be okay with an Elvis lynch.

How do you feel on Zoidberg?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:55 am

In post 1395, roflcopter wrote:because i have
secret reasons
to want bro dead first

Now, you're just trolling me :-p

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:57 am

It's not like this hasn't happened before.

512 cookies anyone?

I don't think we'll have the luxury of having our town block vote for our favorites. Rather, we need to gather on someone we agree on is scummy and take them out.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:03 am

In post 1403, BROseidon wrote:rofl's secret reasons are predicated on him being unable to do math, or being scum pretending to be unable to do math.

Explain. What does math get us?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:03 am

In post 1404, Zoidberg wrote:
In post 1403, BROseidon wrote:rofl's secret reasons are predicated on him being unable to do math, or being scum pretending to be unable to do math.
Anyone voting you is scum.

Got it.

If you are not going to contribute beyond snide remarks, shut up please. We don't need 2,000 posts a game day.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:07 am

AJ posted 12-14 hours ago. Derp.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:19 am

In post 1411, Xiao Long wrote:Yeah, but she hasn't posted at all with the shitfest which is mostly what I meant when I said scum was sitting on the sidelines laughing at us.
I don't consider her a lurker, but I do consider her scummy. Elvis is both lurker and scummy.

There are moments in AJ's posts where she brings some refreshing common sense which the other posters lack. It seems like they've been going through Russian Roulette.

Titus ---> Stubbs --> Baezu --->Broseidon, with a little bit of TD discrediting splashed in to try and break the town block.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:37 am

In post 1424, Rift Adrift wrote:
In post 1411, Xiao Long wrote:Yeah, but she hasn't posted at all with the shitfest which is mostly what I meant when I said scum was sitting on the sidelines laughing at us.
I don't consider her a lurker, but I do consider her scummy. Elvis is both lurker and scummy.
The shitfest has been relatively short in duration.

I agree with your earlier post about town tearing itself apart a bit here. That comes down to some disagreements on reads, discounting of play-styles that don't mesh well, and disrespecting people for those disagreements and disconnects. There's a lot of that going around, and I've contributed my bit.

I think town can pull together despite this, but tbh day 1 is usually a shitfest when town polarizes or stays too diffuse. After day 1 a few things happen, including town as a whole figuring out which players look like they are having a good game reads/strategy-wise, or at least not a bad one.

I have some thoughts on BRO meta, though I may not be the player with the most BRO-game experience. I was in the xenoblade game he referenced and it's true. He was generally in position 3 or 4 on nearly every wagon. He sheeped the fuck out of Nachomamma8 in that game and won it. He's not playing that game right now. However, there's nothing like a Nacho in this game to build his game around, so he'd have to come up with a different strategy as scum anyway.

I'm not saying he's scum. He's been a little bit up-and-down town read for most of the game.

Nice long fencesitting post.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:55 am

Zoidberg for town points!!!!

Always wanted to say that.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:27 am

@AA, What are your serious thoughts on Zoidberg, Tiphaine, Baezu and Bro?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:09 pm

I like a whole lot about that post Oriole. It shows that Baezu is thinking about his reads, willing to question people who appear town (Slandaar and rofl) and looking at voting patterns. What is there NOT to like about that post?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:19 pm

@AJ, why not ask the members of the Bazzy train to go to Zoidberg? I am afraid of the Bazzy wagon for the same reasons you don't like the Elvis wagon.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:56 pm

@Oriole, Perhaps I am being dense but the first part is stating an opinion about how his read shifts (natural) and the second part is agreeing with Slandaar about PV being scummy which isn't scummy IMO. The last part to me reads like someone analyzing the vote patterns and interpreting as someone being suspicious due to a rapid vote swing.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:04 pm

In post 1453, oriole wrote:No, she's agreeing with Amrun that PV is scummy. Slandaar was calling PV town.

Ok that is accurate. Still, the rest of my analysis stands and Baezu can still think Amren's scummy and agree with something he's said. The two aren't mutably exclusive.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:22 pm

There's too many pronouns for me to comprehend what you're saying Oriole.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:39 pm

I don't really find it a big deal. :shrug:

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:52 pm

Really, I've been FoSing you hard, and you have no idea who I am? Come on Syr.

If you're going to pretend to have all the answers, at least pay attention.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:57 pm

Oh Circle Jerk meant me... well being a woman I never really considered myself invited to that sort of thing.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:04 pm

I seriously don't get why RA wants to push this lynch AND exclude the three of us. It's almost like "Here's your scum driven mislynch".

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:10 pm

Is this the part where I say Owww! I want my mommy! Make him listen to me!

Well, it ain't gunna happen. Your behavior only leads me to believe you're even scummier and that Baezu is a mislynch.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:09 pm

In post 1487, Rift Adrift wrote:
In post 1486, Amrun wrote:Broseidon, Elvis, can't let Titus go don't make me, aunt jemima, stubbs, pv (maybe -- closer to null)

Some work with others, some don't. Flips will sort it out. You?
I'm thinkin I'm thinkin you're right on Elvis. Me and fery are currently in arguments on Stubbs: she likes him more recently, and I still think he's a scummy little scumfuck. Titus is a VI (though I'll let you keep her if you drop BRO!).

I would cheerfully hang Jemina with you though. After Baezu.

Peregrine needs a huddle. Brb.

PEDIT AND APPARENTLY WE'RE LEANING TOWN ON THE CHIMP

Nice Discredit and tunnelling.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:36 pm

In post 1514, Xiao Long wrote:How do you even have a read on ArcAngel? She has 7 posts, like two of them are RVS, two of them are prod acknowledgments and has said she'd post her thoughts twice without doing so. O_O

Now, to all of us people who actually rely on playstyles rather than meta and the word of people telling us to shut up, a read on AA is still very premature.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:53 pm

This game just has a shit ton of people doing their own thing and getting their own information, whether deliberate or not. This is setting up to be an insane weekend.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:55 pm

@Bro - Why would we want you to start crumbing your role? I'm already annoyed the group knows I had a day action.

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:02 pm

@Bro - I suppose I deserve that.

@TD - Do you still think RA is town?

Titus · Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:17 pm

Baezu (7) - Aunt Jemina, Slandaar, Metal Sonic, Oriole, Bro, RA, Amrun

Official obviously.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:56 am

Can one of my games just have players be sane?

What happens if Bro flips town Slandaar?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:20 am

Umm how OP is the town right now?

We have 5 cops, 2 players knowing each other, and my role, that's at least 7 confirmed town if Slandaar is right. That smells waay too easy.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:27 am

Tiphane, you should volunteer to be checked then. We lynch outside the cops, and then everyone will know the cop sanity.

I still like lynching outside the cops. If that means Baezu, so be it. I would rather have Zoidberg though.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:47 am

Ok. Then you guys should do popcorn results claiming all checking the same target (hopefully Tiphane). Bro goes. Then he popcorns the next one so on. Bro only starts if he lives. If not, start with Sonic.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:53 am

Killing the target would actually be dumb of the mafia. Then there's still speculation regarding the target's alignment.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:30 am

@RA, Who were the inital members of your artifical town bloc again?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:40 am

Amazing how you dodge the question. Your town block is indeed artifical when you have no way of confirming who is town at this stage in the game. Likely town yes. Certain town no.

Your block was TD, Amrun, Rofl, Bro. Amazing how two of the cops are on that wagon.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:43 am

In post 1624, Rift Adrift wrote:
In post 1623, Titus wrote:Amazing how you dodge the question. Your town block is indeed artifical when you have no way of confirming who is town at this stage in the game. Likely town yes. Certain town no.

Your block was TD, Amrun, Rofl, Bro. Amazing how two of the cops are on that wagon.
Amazing how 4 of the cops are probably town.

I'm usually pretty good at putting together town blocs.

It's easy to put together a town block with the cops when your scum partner tells you they are in the deathy in advance.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:52 am

In post 1628, oriole wrote:If Rift Adrift was trying to include cops in the town block, and I'm not sure why, why wouldn't Slandaar be in it?

Too obvious. Slandaar would likely realize it was buddying.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:57 am

@RA, who do you like as scum in the cop deathy?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:37 am

@RA, You ignored my question. Even if we don't lynch within the deathy, I want to know who you find as likely scum within the deathy.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:55 am

@Slandaar, would I be crazy to think that RA doesn't know a "pro-town" response here and is fishing to put the question off?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:52 am

In post 1650, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 1626, Titus wrote:
In post 1624, Rift Adrift wrote:
In post 1623, Titus wrote:Amazing how you dodge the question. Your town block is indeed artifical when you have no way of confirming who is town at this stage in the game. Likely town yes. Certain town no.

Your block was TD, Amrun, Rofl, Bro. Amazing how two of the cops are on that wagon.
Amazing how 4 of the cops are probably town.

I'm usually pretty good at putting together town blocs.
It's easy to put together a town block with the cops when your scum partner tells you they are in the deathy in advance.

Holy confirmation bias, Batman!

Considering that choosing a random set of four players in this game, hitting a cop is one in four, hitting two is entirely possible if a touch difficult.

This is like a psychotic version of gamblers fallacy.

This could be confirmation bias but it's just one more thing that doesn't set right.

I am town. Supposing Stubbs is town, that's two town spots he's voted for. If Baezu flips town, that's two I will know about and a third train I suspect was also town. Then a town block with (what he knew at the time) with two cops.

Yeah, I'm going to be suspicious.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:41 am

I'm not seeing Ghostly as sour AJ. I actually agree with Rift here. That needs some explanation. I'd go for Sonic or Bro first as the scums.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:56 am

Nah, I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic was scum. He's claiming to be a handwriting expert and handwriting can show a lot but I'm pretty sure there's no handwriting test for deception. Sure there's duress and other things but deception, I think not. Plus, he's not really contributing here. I could see the cops making a stronger argument for Town!Sonic because they see his qt chat. I however, do think Scum!Sonic is possible.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:04 am

Zoidy is a good choice for being sour AJ.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:31 pm

In post 1663, oriole wrote:
In post 1659, Titus wrote:Nah, I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic was scum. He's claiming to be a handwriting expert and handwriting can show a lot but I'm pretty sure there's no handwriting test for deception. Sure there's duress and other things but deception, I think not.

I think you're taking things a bit too seriously here.

In post 1659, Titus wrote: Plus, he's not really contributing here. I could see the cops making a stronger argument for Town!Sonic because they see his qt chat. I however, do think Scum!Sonic is possible.
Do you have any reason to distrust the evidence presented by the cops? They've summarized what they found town in the qt.

@Oriole/Slandaar, if it's not obvious, I assume someone's serious. I viewed that as an appeal to credibility/being an expert. I'm surprised y'all said that more than he did. If he meant it as a joke, I'd like to hear it from him. That doesn't really sound like a joke though.

@Slandaar, I don't really trust what I can't see.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:39 pm

In post 1666, Amrun wrote:You don't trust things you can't see, Titus? Is that real? Lmao

If I don't see it in a post, or deduce it myself, I don't 100% know it's true.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:43 pm

In post 1668, Amrun wrote:
In post 1667, Titus wrote:
In post 1666, Amrun wrote:You don't trust things you can't see, Titus? Is that real? Lmao
If I don't see it in a post, or deduce it myself, I don't 100% know it's true.
And yet the things you try to shove down other people's throats... You are really far up your own perspective.

Try to shove... no try to explain, yes. What am I trying to "shove down your throat"?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:53 pm

Yeah, it is pretty much that easy Amrun. There's no posts you're not seeing in order to reach that conclusion. The cops are relying on a qt we cannot see. You don't have to rely on anything to know we're confaligned because all three of us have said we're confaligned. Given how moronic it would be to say that if we were not actually confaligned or scum, it should be obvious. Attempts to throw mud at Tiphane or Xiao will be met with suspicion and hostility.

Knowing anything about my role, THAT I would understand if you had no clues about it because I haven't directly said it.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:06 pm

In post 1676, Amrun wrote:
In post 1673, TiphaineDeath wrote:Can we not rehash this for the millionth time today and just join together to vote zoidberg instead?
Bro or Baezu or bust

P-edit: who first mentioned a framer?

Why not Zoidberg? Several people have noted he's scummy yet you seem to go out of your way to defend him. Why?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:08 pm

In post 1681, Amrun wrote:
In post 1680, Titus wrote:
In post 1676, Amrun wrote:
In post 1673, TiphaineDeath wrote:Can we not rehash this for the millionth time today and just join together to vote zoidberg instead?
Bro or Baezu or bust

P-edit: who first mentioned a framer?
Why not Zoidberg? Several people have noted he's scummy yet you seem to go out of your way to defend him. Why?
Read again. This is wrong.

So you're fine with a Zoidberg lynch?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:42 pm

@Amrun, Aside from the conversation, are you find with a Zoidberg lynch?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:22 pm

Amrun/AJ --- Zoid --- Rofl... discuss?

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:35 pm

In post 1703, TiphaineDeath wrote:That, went over my head, try again X_X.

I'm suggesting an Amrun/AJ --- Rofl --- Zoidberg scum team.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Well, yeah that's why some people don't just give a fuck during the day. There's no day fucks given.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:22 pm

In post 1711, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 1659, Titus wrote:He's claiming to be a handwriting expert and handwriting can show a lot but I'm pretty sure there's no handwriting test for deception.

Are
YOU
a handwriting expert? What do you know?

If you deny my skills and subsequently deny oriole being conftown, you really need to be lynched with fire~

It's not my trade but I know a little bit about everything involved in investigation. The simple solution would be to prove that there's something out there determining deception via handwriting, and put plenty of egg on my face.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:25 pm

In post 1715, Metal Sonic wrote:Oh and if my expression was not "obvious" enough,

you don't know jack shit about handwriting analysis
so stop pulling shit out of

so dont talk about things that you dont know about

Like I said. Call my bluff if you think I know something. Show me something where honesty or deception can be proved via handwriting. I think we both know it can't.

Actually, you're the one claiming to be the expert. In my line of work, experts have to prove they are experts.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:27 pm

In post 1719, TiphaineDeath wrote:Baezu-PV-Zoid-Rofl

I could go this way. Basically the last spot after Rofl and Zoid is where I get stuck.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:09 pm

In post 1734, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 1718, Titus wrote:
In post 1715, Metal Sonic wrote:Oh and if my expression was not "obvious" enough,

you don't know jack shit about handwriting analysis
so stop pulling shit out of

so dont talk about things that you dont know about
Like I said. Call my bluff if you think I know something.

You're the one that is supposed to call my bluff -____-

Failed. You're not an expert at all. By demanding you prove your expert status, rather than having us believe you due to your claim... that's exactly what I am doing.

I could claim to be a rocket scientist. I doubt any of you would believe me. Why? The burden of proof is on the one claiming to be the expert. You cannot appeal to credibility and then not show your credentials.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:23 pm

For the record, the JSTOR link to the actual article would have worked better.

Anyone can use google.

Now, I'm dropping it at the group's request but yeah, I don't think that's ever gaining acceptance in the relevant scientific community if being in a car invalidates the results.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:26 pm

I am fine with lynching Baezu, but I want his claim first.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:29 pm

No egg on my face. You haven't proven that Oriole could be telling the truth or lying. No egg. You're no expert and nothing's been proven. We can talk about this later, because if you are an expert and just dumbing things down for me, you could still have a lot of work in your future. The fact is though, I just don't believe you.

As for the cop deathy, we'll worry about that tomorrow.

Titus · Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:57 pm

Sonic, we can finish that discussion later.

Ghostly, you and I are both on intent to hammer. We are waiting on Baezu to claim.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:16 am

If Baezu doesn't claim in 24 hours, I will hammer. It will be hard to move the train after 24 hours given how mafia scum works.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:32 am

We should just lynch the most likely scum and worry about how many there are later.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:03 am

Baezu, can you give your reads on everyone? I KNOW you are angry but try to give information. It may help you off or function as a last will of sorts.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:28 am

In post 1786, roflcopter wrote:that eery silence is the sound of scum going 'oooh, one of our prime mislynches.....'

To me that slip means nothing. Scum would lack direct access to a qt. To me this seems like protecting/buddying/whiteknighting AJ. I don't know which though.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:37 am

In post 1796, Xiao Long wrote:
In post 1785, roflcopter wrote:no bullshit aj just slipped not knowing what is being discussed in the cop qt which is a townslip if the scum know what is being discussed there (which is the assumption we're under)
Are you implying scum can't feign ignorance?

This.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:41 am

In post 1792, roflcopter wrote:you've been mad at me for the early wagon all game and its giving you confirmation bias. believe me when i tell you that if the scum know what is going on in the qt they know something aj does not know.

And what would that be?Hmm...

That's not confirmation bias to point out what behavior appears to be because town can buddy/whiteknight.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:41 am

In post 1795, Baezu wrote:I actually have to go right now but I will finish my list of reads (if I'm not lynched) when I get back.

I will hold off until you get back.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:08 am

@Slandaar/Stubbs/Baezu, join us on Zoidberg?

@All, Partial Revocation of Intent to Hammer. I'll only hammer if we are down under 1 day and no other train is viable.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:20 am

That last paragraph sounds like an awesome fencesitter RA.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:30 am

@Xiao, would you be ok with Zoidberg?

I figure with you me, TD, Slandaar, Stubbs, Baezu, Ghostly that's 7 with the momentum on our side, so AJ would have to vote with us on Zoidberg (or be outed as scum), then we'd just need one more.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:41 pm

So basically, BRO must be scum, therefore Zoidberg cannot be. Do you have an independent read on Zoidberg?

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:42 pm

The problem is, he doesn't want to lynch Zoidberg but is giving us crap as to why not.

Titus · Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:40 pm

Ghost and I are already there.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:24 am

Slandaar, I much prefer lynching outside the deathy today. I see Bro as much more likely to be town than Zoidberg. I think rofl or sonic are the scum in the deathy.The scum in the deathy must visit the target due to the possibility of being read by a tracker or reverse tracker. We don't need to lynch within the deathy.The risk of hitting a cop is to great and we don't have consensus on the scum cop. Let's take one check with him and see.

Zoidberg however seems to have people defending him without reason. Notice his vanishing act. Zoidberg is the right play here.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:17 am

@Slandaar, Amrun's right. He's the typical example of a Zoidberg defense without a reason. The other is AJ. He's scummy but I won't help turn the train rationale.

Amrun meanwhile has presented no evidence for his rationale that Bro and Zoidberg couldn't be scum together. He just says Bro is scum therefore Zoidberg cannot be. He has no independent read of Zoidberg which should register as fishy. He doesn't want to say Zoidberg is town for fear of being associated with that. Thus, this is a defense without a reason.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:40 am

@Slandaar, I never sheep without a reason. It's not my style. I can see there are things I don't know but I'm not going to just suppose someone is scum and suppose someone else isn't. That makes no sense.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:38 am

I would like Bro as town more and Zoidberg as scum if I had to choose. Giving town a day chat with four private members is way OP. I'd expect scum to have a day chat as well. Then Zoidberg happens to channel his suspicion of Bro when it reaches a boiling point in the cop qt (supposing without seeing) would indicate knowledge. I hate coincidence and I cannot believe Zoidberg did that as town right when it was coming up in the deathy.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:36 am

@Bro, which came first in the QT? Slandaar's scum read on you or Zoidberg's suggestion?

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:08 am

In post 1872, BROseidon wrote:Here is the order of things:

rofl scumreads me in QT. A few days later, Slandaar also scumreads me. Right after Slandaar suggest that I'm scum, Zoidberg attacks me. Then entire QT scumreads me.

This would suggest that the Zoidberg suggesting Bro scum is a manipulation by one of the members in the deathy. Slandaar's statements could have been a trigger but it's more likely the scum gave Zoidberg a cue word.

Mod: Is the scum player allowed to share the link to the deathy QT with the other scums?

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:16 am

@RA I wasn't assuming no scum day talk. If the scums have access to the deathy QT, they can discuss reads as they are forming. That makes Zoidberg's actions look much more suspect. Furthermore, a lack of qt would mean that Zoidberg could impulsively act to try and increase suspicion on Bro without discussing it with his partners. If they do have a mafia QT, then they planned the Bro FoS together. I'm trying to figure out which is which so we can see how many people might have too much information.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:01 pm

Zoidberg has been blatantly lurking when convenient buddying having, sheeping etc. I cannot think of a better candidate for a lynch. The bad timing was the clincher. I wouldn't have pushed the Zoidberg lynch if I didn't believe him to be scum.

I do find Xiao's reason credible because he's always wanted AJ, the others are frankly suspicious as hell with their timing. We were moving and pushing towards L-1 and then we aren't.

Titus · Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:14 pm

I didn't say Zoidberg was the only wagon. I said the timing of this counterwagon was suspicious. If y'all always felt AJ was scummy, why wouldn't you have gotten on an AJ train sooner?

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:08 am

Let's see what happens.

VOTE: Amrun

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:27 am

We need to make a decision. We should pick one member we trust, he picks two people, we vote between them.

VOTE: Zoidberg

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:23 am

Can we, given the deadlines, limit votes to the current major wagons? Those who aren't on a major wagon, get on one, unless that would hammer.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:19 pm

In post 1946, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1571, BROseidon wrote:Rift: He means that scum knows who he is in the group. It's functionally a side-game of Dethy.

And MS pming the mod to ask him isn't much town cred when the first thing I said in the QT was bitching about being in a side-game of Dethy because I hate Dethy.
What is Dethy?

A dethy is where multiple players are in a separate quicktopic and one is scum. In this case, we have 5 "cops" but one is actually a scum.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:27 pm

In post 1949, BROseidon wrote:
In post 1945, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1567, BROseidon wrote:Titus, 4 cops of unknown sanities (ie, one is paranoid and one is naive, which are functionally useless), as scum (sans an SK or multiball shenanigans) start out the game either with one of them knowing who the 4 are or, more likely because having pregame chat is standard, they already know who the cops are.

pedit: An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop once he knows his sanity.
All the cops investigate themselves tonight. That will tell most of them which they are.
This is a horrible idea.

Agreed.

@rolfcopter, how about no... I have a few tricks up my sleeve left.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:37 pm

@TD, People are going to have to start moving if we want to get a lynch off. The lurkers are almost all the voters not on major trains. The problem is I do not like AJ as scum. What should we do here?

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:30 pm

In post 1964, PeregrineV wrote:Elvis and Eddie both being replaced?

ArcAngel at 3 prods?

Not too keen on AuntJ wagon- feel like it's her town play. Anyone want to compare?

Town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26390
Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24130

@Titus- How did that read come out (1224)

Still indecisive. Rofl is not a player of many words but I feel his posts have something more to them here. Given he's in the deathy, I feel confident enough to push that off for a bit.

I agree with each cop investigating each other is bad. If the cops can reach an agreement on one player who must be town (even if it's within the deathy) that player should be investigated. All the cops targeting one player forces the scum to keep that player alive or give information on all the cops alignment. It's a semi-permanent doctor.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:16 pm

@Tiphaine, Agreed. I think given the short time frame, the best manner might be arguing AJ is town, rather than Zoidberg being scum because that's a dead horse.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:28 pm

In post 1977, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1971, Titus wrote:
In post 1964, PeregrineV wrote:Elvis and Eddie both being replaced?

ArcAngel at 3 prods?

Not too keen on AuntJ wagon- feel like it's her town play. Anyone want to compare?

Town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26390
Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24130

@Titus- How did that read come out (1224)
Still indecisive. Rofl is not a player of many words but I feel his posts have something more to them here. Given he's in the deathy, I feel confident enough to push that off for a bit.

I agree with each cop investigating each other is bad. If the cops can reach an agreement on one player who must be town (even if it's within the deathy) that player should be investigated. All the cops targeting one player forces the scum to keep that player alive or give information on all the cops alignment. It's a semi-permanent doctor.
I said self-investigate. And if I didn't, that's what I meant.

You did communicate that. I misspoke. Cops investigating themselves gives us nothing objective. We all know they are cops, they are better off all investigating the same person. They keep doing that until the cop alignments are confirmed. They start with obvtown like myself or TD. That acts as a permanent heal unless the mafia decides to confirm the alignments we have received from the investigations.

Self-investigation just tell the cop involved and make it easier for scum to craft a lie.

Titus · Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:59 pm

@PeregrineV, can you move your vote to Zoidberg or AJ? We need to consolidate on a lynch.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:52 am

In post 1987, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1975, Titus wrote:@Tiphaine, Agreed. I think given the short time frame, the best manner might be arguing AJ is town, rather than Zoidberg being scum because that's a dead horse.
Uh, That is a completely different argument. Need to check what you have said about AJ in the past but no time right now. Someone else should though.

It is a completely different argument. Given the timeframe, Zoidberg or AJ will likely be the lynch. If the group likes AJ as town more than Zoidberg, Zoidberg will be lynched.

@Stubbs, why the naked vote?

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:29 am

In post 2006, Amrun wrote:Jesus fuck, this game is annoying.

You needed to post that? I actually LOVE this game. I need to go start cooking now.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:53 pm

Zoidberg isn't here or claiming. The weekend is long over. This convinces me that Zoidberg doesn't have a good claim.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:57 pm

In post 2011, Amrun wrote:What does "having a good claim" have to do with anything? That's a super weird way to phrase that.

By having a good claim, I mean one that is consistent with town alignment that would also be flavor consistent. I don't think he has a claim like that because he's scum.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:07 pm

In post 2014, Amrun wrote:
In post 2012, Titus wrote:
In post 2011, Amrun wrote:What does "having a good claim" have to do with anything? That's a super weird way to phrase that.
By having a good claim, I mean one that is consistent with town alignment that would also be flavor consistent. I don't think he has a claim like that because he's scum.
Because as scum he wouldn't have a fakeclaim or anything. Perfectly logical.

People lurk to avoid uncomfortable scenarios.

@Oriole, that's an utterly wrong statement. Zoidberg posted on both Sunday (putting Baezu at L-1 and Monday doing a prod dodge on account of the weekend. Neither applies and he hasn't posted.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:14 pm

In post 2016, Amrun wrote:
In post 2013, oriole wrote:
In post 2010, Titus wrote:Zoidberg isn't here or claiming. The weekend is long over. This convinces me that Zoidberg doesn't have a good claim.
...Or, you could just check his posts/profile and see he hasn't been on the site in 2 days.
Uh, no, his posts on Sunday and Monday have nothing to do with him not being on site for 2 days, Titus. The above is a completely true statement.

I counted the last two days as not posting on Monday or Tuesday, which isn't true because Zoidberg posted on Monday. I don't deal with counting the hours bullshit. The not posting for two days is technically accurate by about an hour.

Titus · Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:48 pm

The technical details, how Oriole meant two days, isn't important. It was just annoying to me. It still doesn't change my theory that Z is not visiting the thread when he needs to.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:20 am

Ok, there are only two possible scenarios here.

1) The killer targeted Xiao.

2) The killer targeted TD AND TD's killer was healed.

1 and 2 could theoretically both exist.

It's time for me to do a partial role claim.

My role is ________________ ___________ with the Gunpowder Cake. I bombed the living crap out of TD day 1. He mistook that as being shot to death. I dropped hints directly by saying things like "Make your head go boom!" I still have another half to my role, which I may or may not disclose at will.

TD got confused and thought he was blown up. To which I just :facepalmed:.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:23 am

I want to know whether the Cop deathy is ongoing. Given the Chatty Waiter died... I would want to know whether the cops have access to their chat. At least the scums don't.

By the way, if you visited Xiao, you should announce that.

My suspect number one is Amrun, given how hard he defended Zoidberg.

VOTE: Zoidberg

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:24 am

VOTE: Amrun Derp.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:25 am

Exactly. That's right. I had eyed TD as town very quickly, so I attached a bomb to him so that the train on me would get turned around by a very protown member.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:26 am

If the scums killed him, they'd wind up killing themselves, so I made sure to highlight TD was town very frequently. I kinda figured he was a mason though and not a lover.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:39 am

I left half of my role out deliberately. I always said I was a bastard role. My role is not in the wiki. I give two abilities. I gave one to TD and the other well, I'll play that close to the vest for now.

Bomb's wiki

It is in the wiki btw.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:43 am

That's probably why TD was indeed confused. That's also why I couldn't say anything.

Oh yeah, I had a bomb and I strapped it onto Tiphane. That would have defeated the purpose of attaching it to Tiphane. So I couldn't answer those questions directly.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:43 am

@Bro, do you still have access to the QT? What are the results from the investigation? Who did y'all target?

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:49 am

I was playing it on the fly Amrun.

My plan to use it was always to attach it to a pro-town player to get a scum flip. Besides, you've never heard of my role (because I'm just that big of a bastard), yet you presume to tell me how to play it? Really?

I'm leery about any consensus reached on a lynch target when scum was in that chat, so I won't go along quite yet.

@RA, there is no more cop deathy. It died with Zoidberg. Mafia's day chat died too presumably, so that's good at least.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:56 am

In post 2067, BROseidon wrote:We lost daychat b/c Zoidberg.

That's in response to me asking Bro about the deathy. It's gone.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:20 am

@RA, I always meant the Deathy Day chat as vanishing.

@Amrun, really, you did that 180 on Zoidberg? Do you still believe Broseidon is scum?

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:43 am

I agree with the Ghostly head. The scum already likely knows your results unless we are in multiball. Given the flips, I'm almost certain we are not in multiball.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:49 am

Err I mean what your results should be.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:54 am

I find it odd that both BRO and Zoidberg want to go last. I'd say, have the person who the deathy trusts most determine the order if you picked such an individual.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:55 am

BRO and ROFL. Damn it. Zoidberg has hijacked my brain.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:58 am

Ok, then there's two ways to go about this. 1) Have all the players post their rankings and create an objective order from that. 2) Have a trusted player dictate the order. Given the fact I'm near confirmed town, I could do that.

I find it odd both you and rofl trust each other the most then, if that's how your lists are made.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:02 pm

What's your answer BRO? Scenario 1 or Scenario 2?

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:39 pm

In post 2104, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
Titus, that weird ability of yours you just claimed, is it one-shot?

Yes. It would be severely OP if I could do that every day/night. I still have the other half of my ability however.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:45 pm

AJ is someone who I'd want to expand more on. Her behavior yesterday suggested town, but it was too perfect. She would have been one of the few to figure out that TD and Xiao were partners. I did, but I asked Varsoon if they were masons and he said yes. Blah.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:49 pm

@Amrun, why does the Zoidberg flip clear Bro? To cover your last minute change of heart?

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:57 pm

Amrun's vote list

Elvis now zMuffin

Random vote doesn't count

Jabarkas

town

Titus

town

Tiphanie (sort of) - Voted me in the same post

1/2 town vote

Titus

town

Baezu

?

Stubbs

Probable town

Bro

Town according to Amrun now

Aunt Jemina

? - Major Anti Zoidberg wagon

Zoid - Sudden Flip Hammer

Suspicious scum vote, given rapid defense

Natirasha - Formerly EddieFenix

Amrun's votes and in fact his total behavior suggests an attempt to break up the town block between Xiao myself and TD. The problem is the joke is on them considering two of the three votes are still in play.

I find it odd that Romeo (TD) is voting Slandaar. I think I am going to review Slandaar's comments at the start of the Zoidberg trigger to see if there is anything there.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:09 pm

It makes no sense to look at your voting history, which has focused nearly exclusively on the three of us until it was clear those wagons weren't going to have legs. You change to Bro, right when the timing was convinent. Then, you join onto the AJ wagon after swearing up and down that Zoidberg as town (I can wall that if you refuse). Then, you suddenly, with little prompting from Zoidberg posts decide that he's scum and lynch him.

The only people I cannot definitively place are zMuffin, who was an RVS vote and doesn't count for vote analysis much; Baezu, who I have as a null read atm; Bro, who you concede is likely town; AJ, who I have as town but Penguin might cause me to revisit that; Natirasha, who is essentially coming into a blank slate; and Stubbs, who is probably town. Either you are craptastic at finding scum, unlikely, or your voting pattern and timing suggests you are indeed scum Amrun.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:47 pm

1) If your vote on jabs wasn't serious, why did you attack me so hard and keep attacking long after the hydra wasn't the lynch?

2) You repeatedly said you didn't trust the "circle jerk of confalignment" and threw suspicion our way. Post 333 looks like a serious vote on Tiphaine and then something changed your mind to get you back onto me.

3) In the span of two hours you go from Zoidberg being probably town to being "probably fucking wrong". That was all of twelve posts. You hammered without knowledge of a claim from someone you were pretty sure was town. There's nothing in your posts about shedding light on bro. Your claim of Zoidberg's bad reaction is pathetic at best considering you missed his claim. This looks like retconning.

4) How did Zoidberg chainsaw on Eddie's behalf? It's hardly a chainsaw if you let it go for 40 pages, presuming Zoidberg attacking Bro is what you meant. Eddie made four posts which had dcent content. I would place it at a null right now and go for the guy whose vote history scream scum.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:50 pm

@Ghostly, look at Amrun's vote history, history of trying to cast aspersions on me, TD nd Jabs, his sudden flip on the hammer spot and tell me if you're looking at a town spot. I am near certain Amrun is scum given his total inability to admit he was overconfident before. Ask me questions and I will explain but do not dismiss me out of hand.

My ever watchful eye knows.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:54 pm

@Ghostly, what additional information bias would I have? Hmm. Go ahead and say it out loud.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:07 pm

1) Ok. Then that's one lie. You said you only voted one out of the three of us seriously. Yet, Jabs is now a serious vote. I almost certainly was. Tiphaine was a serious vote at 333.

2) Your valid reason was merely you didn't like me. You were convinced Tiphaine was town. You were convinced he wasn't lying but you still wanted to break the three of us apart. We all said repeatedly that we went together. My reasons were my day action and Tiphaine's response. That's all you needed to know.

3) You misstate my argument entirely. Your rapid switch from Z!town to Z!scum just isn't believable. You overlooked Zoidberg's claim because you weren't paying attention according to you. Nothing about your post says getting info on Bro was your objective. Now, you claim your objective was obvious despite not being in your post.

4) A chainsaw taking 40 pages is hardly a chainsaw. You are stretching. The motivation was clearly the timing and matching suspicion from the cop qt.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:10 pm

In post 2132, roflcopter wrote:titus if elvisslot flips scum i'll lynch amrun with you tomorrow

Why do you see a link between the two?

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:19 pm

I will look through Amrun's iso to see what I can find there. If I like what I see, I would be willing to go along with the elvis lynch but would prefer Amrun because she's more seasoned and active.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:24 pm

In post 856, Amrun wrote:
In post 851, Baezu wrote:Just reading through the thread everything elvis says is so scummy. Just read her ISO - it's terrible.
Actually.

Fuck.

VOTE: Baezu

Pretty fucking clearly, all he did was pick someone easy to attack off the recent pages, read her ISO, attack her and leave, hoping that would head off his wagon. I got a little blinded because what he was saying about elvis is pretty rational.

And "Aunt Jemina," that's not how you spell that, btw, and you're not on the OP and you're not in the player list, so stop fucking post here or say who you are.

Now, this looks like a proper chainsaw. The timing is reasonably nearby the original Elvis vote.

@Stubbs, I believed you.

Titus · Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:32 pm

In post 2140, Amrun wrote:Sure, if elvisslot flips scum, you would have a viable reason to accuse me of chainsaw defending it. You'd still be wrong, but the reasoning would be okay.

Well it seems like you are capable of ceding points where they need to be ceded. Now the followup, if you had a vote history that voted a whole lot of town, consistently, and then had a suspicious hammer, would you FoS and vote them day 2?

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:22 am

@Romeo/TD - If you are saying Slandaar is scum, vote me. If you are saying Slandaar is probable town vote Oriole. I picked those two because they likely won't turn into a wagon. Then, if you vote Oriole, change your vote to likely scum. Hopefully Amrun.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:35 am

In post 2165, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 2160, Rift Adrift wrote:
We feel like voting Metal Sonic, AJ and Amrun. Will leave MS to the dethy to sort for now.

i see scum

Elaborate please.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:38 am

In post 2157, zMuffinMan wrote:Also, I believe I'm currently L-3. I'd like to at least finish writing my thoughts on the game before a lynch happens. While I'd prefer my lynch not happen at all, at the very least I want to get my analysis of D1 out so that perhaps you derps can look back on it and think about what I'm writing.

Muffin's posts have been squarely town today. I know y'all cops agreed but given Muffin's posts, this has derp written all over it. This is a train of lose as Thor would say.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:39 am

You really think a scum cop would agree to lynch their buddy?

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:08 am

@Everyone, if y'all are giving Slandaar a lot of credit if you think he caught a crumb. The only crumb I left at that point would be what? I hadn't mentioned bomb or explosion yet, so the crumb you are giving credit for must be the other half of my role. If you see that, then both scum and town would want off my wagon. Getting off my wagon is a null tell. I don't traditionally crumb at all.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:14 am

Given the scum had a daychat deathy, if Slandaar had caught my crumb, my train would have likely dissolved quickly with a lot of buddying. I am not seeing that. Therefore, I don't think Slandy's scum. That is supposing he caught a crumb at all.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:27 am

Right. Rephrasing. If Slandaar was scum, he would have told his daychat about the crumb and they would have backed off my train. Given there wasn't a mass exodus from my train either Slandaar isn't scum or he didn't notice the crumb you give him credit for.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:27 am

I probably meant to say daychat + deathy but it may have run together.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:43 am

In post 2185, zMuffinMan wrote:That's a bad assumption, because scum could just as easily have pretended they didn't see your crumb (regardless of whether Slandaar told them).

It's not really important, though.

Right but they would have gotten off the train for bs other reasons. They didn't.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:56 am

Agreed, with everything you said. However, I have the information of my rolecard and I know what the only possible hint was back then and it wouldn't be likely to be caught. If it was, scum would have been stupid to push for my lynch.

Scum don't like obvitown which is why I Fosed a lot of the spots attacking TD and Jabs, once I was sure they were linked.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:40 am

In post 2191, Ghostly Penguin wrote:Tallying up the Dethy votes, I get:

Bro: GP, Metal, Slandaar, rofl, BRO
rofl: GP, Metal, Slandaar, BRO, rofl
GP: BRO, Metal, GP, Slandaar, rofl
Slandaar: GP, Metal, rofl, BRO, Slandaar

And nothing from Metal Sonic that I saw.

At 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, that adds up to:
GP: 18
Metal: 16
BRO: 10
Slandaar: 9
Rofl: 7

So we'll claim results in that order.

We investigated TD and got back innocent.

Metal Sonic, go.

--Penguin

Mental note: I'll be keeping track of alignments possible.

I thought y'all agreed to check the suspicious players.

Naive/Sane/Scum are the possible alignments on GP.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:15 am

:bites tongue:

:@

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:37 am

@Ghostly, you mentioned my case was "disjointed" and was based on "information bias".

What "information bias" could be fueling my opinion that Amrun is scummy?

As for the Amrun case

1) You make the argument said that Amrun's town because Zoidberg wasn't going to get us more information. This is likely the truth. Yet, it goes against Amrun's professed motivation for hammering. Oh my god, Zoidberg's suddenly scummy and the unwritten and fake motivation that Zoidberg's flip was to reveal Bro's alignment. If Amrun thought Zoidberg was scummy (which the post indicated) then you wouldn't need a Zoidberg flip to know that Bro was town. At least one of the three posts is not geunine/retconning. Town can retconn as well but the hammer was all around bad.

2) Bro's reaction to his train probably would have been called terrible (as it was an AtE) if he didn't have the deathy behind him.

3) I'm not sure where you are going with someone had to hammer and you doubted it would be anyone with "skin in that game". What game? *confused*

4) Genuine/insincere is NOT a scum tone argument. It's something that's readily apparent from Amrun's posts.

5) You totally ignore Amrun's vote pattern and her attempts to break up our town block.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:18 am

In post 2201, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 2200, Titus wrote:What "information bias" could be fueling my opinion that Amrun is scummy?

Bluntly, the fact that Zoid flipped scum after Amrun hemmed and hawed about hammering and then hammered quickly when she did.

That's the majority of "Amrun is scum" arguments, and it's pretty lazy.

It's lazy to look at someone's voting history and attempts to attack a townbloxk are lazy. Looking at a suspicious hammer is lazy? Associative tells are just "information bias" by this standard.

Look, no one jumps from probable town to probable scum in ten posts at the end of the day. It doesn't happen. The argument is shit. Given the effort Amrun was putting into defending Zoidberg, how the fuck does Amrun miss Zoidberg's claim if he's legitimately reading the thread?

1 -2 ) I believe it is likely Bro is town, but what I believe is irrelevant to whether or not Amrun is scum. Amrun's so called belief (post hammer) was that lynching Zoidberg would reveal Bro's alignment. You've just indicated the truth that lynching Zoidberg doesn't automatically clear Bro. So how are we supposed to believe Amrun's bullshit claim about lynching Bro for information? When it's also paired with a rapid shift from Zoid town to Zoid scum? Come on.

3) This is irrelevant. I'm not talking about scenarios that didn't happen.

4) Except when it's patently implausible on it's face for the rapid switch.

5) Yeah, it wasn't transparent (especially my role) but hell if one of the players you had as confirmed town said the three were together, then all three were confirmed town. Also, scum wouldn't pull a gabmit where three members outed themselves day freaking one. It's common sense that we were all town. I'm not going after all of my FoSers, I'm going after the guy who spent almost all of day 1 attacking town despite claiming to be a so called expert. For an expert, he struggles a hell of a lot with common sense and understanding reasonable play.

6) Yeah, you don't drop from probable town to probable scum in the span of two hours Amrun.

In post 2022, Amrun wrote:Don't worry -- I'll be around to hammer pretty much no matter what if Zoidberg doesn't show up. I'm not letting that slot get replaced. We're obviously going to tax the replacement list enough as it is, and with so many people suspecting him anyway, that's the last thing I want.
The lynch will be plenty informative, and even if he flips town like I think, that will still tell me some important things.

Added Timestamp: August 7, 9:32 PM

In post 2034, Amrun wrote:I would literally laugh so hard I asphyxiated myself if Reck was AuntJ. I seriously doubt it.

p-edit: Wow, left this post up for awhile.

No claim, Zoid?

No posts after saying, "I had a bunch of catch up posts?"

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit I was probably fucking wrong.

bye bye.

VOTE: zoid

Added Timestamp: August 7, 10:38 PM

This is just bullshit. No one turns around that fast after defending everything Zoidberg did for pages and pages. It's patently ridiculous.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:21 am

In post 2210, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2194, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 2193, Titus wrote:I thought y'all agreed to check the suspicious players.

Random. With TD directing Dethy last night, I thought it would be worth checking, not knowing his, Xiao's and your status; there had been some concern from the Dethy bloc (I think it was ROFL) about his obv town attitude when the only role that he confirmed was yours. So we investigated TD. There were other candidates as well, but we chose a group of players that had done something confusing to confound their status.

I didn't want to push on a player I found obviously scummy, because I don't know that I'm sane or not.
I don't like this reasoning. It might be that your target died, but the fact you choose the same player out of 16 that the scum did to kill rankles me.

Actually, how do you know scum picked TD to kill? They coulda picked Xiao. Picking one of the two guys who died is suspicious, especially when td was the most town.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:53 pm

I agree with rofl, but I'm surprised at how quick amrun/Ghosty were to jump on that. Seeing those two names as the deaths caused me to freak out and PM the host to make sure there wasn't a mistake, because I had attached a bomb to Tiphaine. If TD was the one attacked, then our doctor knows one of the scums (as opposed to knowing one of the town). Of course, those who keep a watchful eye at night might already know who visited Xiao.

@Rofl, the late arrivals sounds like something scum would do. You shouldn't be getting five to unanimously lynch someone if they are scum.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:04 pm

@Nati, no confirmed doctor. I was just giving a heads up to the hypothetical doctor that anyone they healed might actually be scum rather than town. I'd imagine that Xiao would be the more logical to kill from a scum perspective as TD contributed more out of the pair post Varsoon.

What do you think of TD (Romeo) voting Slandaar after death?

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:36 pm

In post 2243, roflcopter wrote:
In post 2239, Titus wrote:@Rofl, the late arrivals sounds like something scum would do. You shouldn't be getting five to unanimously lynch someone if they are scum.
what other option does the dethy scum have than to fall in line, really? if zmuffin is scum and they're the only one who was against the lynch in the dethy, they've just basically outed themselves. the fact that we got broad agreement from all five of us on the lynch doesn't mean its a mislynch.

It doesn't mean it's certain but it should set up alarm bells. Being the only one to resist a lynch doesn't mean scum status, everyone knows that. Basically, the town members decided the slot would have nothing of importance regardless of replacement. That's a fool's errand. Most likely, supposing muffin is scum, they would say his inactivity is suspicious but not directly confirm or deny the vote. I don't like that was an agreed upon lynch without even hearing from the replacement. It makes no sense. I can't see scum NOT highlighting this fact. I'm not certain it's a mislynch but my guard is definitely up.

I'd rather hear from the next cop in line before making a decision but I like my vote on Amrun right now.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:12 pm

And someone reading the thread not understanding my claim of "with the gunpowder cake" would most likely assume that TD was the scum kill. It's possibly a sign of not reading things through. I'm not certain PV is scum, but I don't like how y'all jumped on that soo quickly given how fast you generally are to discredit everything that comes out of my mouth.

Titus · Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:23 pm

I actually am surprised by this. He seemed to be all for the wagon, defending it but when someone he likes comes up, he abandons it. Perhaps he knows what I have been suggesting that zMuffin is town?

Metal Sonic looks to be next to claim.

Then Bro.

Both should be ready, I hope they can claim within the next 24 hours.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:35 am

In post 2293, BROseidon wrote:My turn to claim. I got:

Amrun->Guilty

Why did you check Amrun?

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:06 am

Really Slandaar? You checked me?

Apparently the deathy has a weird definition of suspicious.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:18 am

In post 2301, roflcopter wrote:i'm gonna claim in the qt tonight because my result will not change how we play day two one lick and it hopefully deprives the scum of enough information to accurately pick out the sane/insane cops from the naive/paranoid cops

This smells like bullshit.You put your claim in the deathy, that's the first thing the scum say and they have all the info and half the town does not.

The only way this wouldn't occur is if we lynched within the deathy, which is poor play imo.

@Slandaar... Why?

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:13 am

This exchange is making me really not like rofl again. He's withholding information to push a lynch on a slot. Every cop but bro has done something to alarm me though and the day is just getting started.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:29 am

In post 2325, zMuffinMan wrote:Titus what are your thoughts on Baezu atm?

Null. His play leads scum but Amrun voting him leans town.

I am starting to get paranoid we have a cult.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:46 am

In post 2333, Natirasha wrote:
In post 2332, Rift Adrift wrote:
In post 2331, Natirasha wrote:Why?
Don't feed the trolls.
Okay

You got any sexy meta info on anyone cool, preferably named Ghostly Penguin or Baezu?

Not trolling but just paranoid thinking out loud. It would explain all the behavior I am seeing but I'm seeing no sudden alignment shifts so I might be wrong. Just speculation right now.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:42 pm

Yeah, I think Amrun and Ghostly are pretty much tied at the hip. Amrun seems to be the major wagon right now. Ghostly defends the crap out of Amrun and then says let's not lynch the investigation targets but doesn't say why. He says it's for reasons. Frankly, lynching Amrun would be a huge benefit in terms of finding out Ghostly's alignment IMO.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:11 pm

Your reasons cannot be derived from special knowledge as your role wouldn't have provided that unless you outright lied to the group.

If we don't lynch within the deathy, that's 5 that cannot be lynched. Remove the deathy investigation targets, that's 3 more that cannot be lynched. That's more than half the group (15/2) that cannot be lynched at the outset. Add in oriole, who we won't lynch.
Ghostly - TD (Clean)
Bro - Amrun (Guilty)
Slandaar - Titus (Innocent)
rofl - REFUSED
Metal Sonic - Stubbs (clean)

The list of no lynch is Slandaar, rofl, Ghostly, bro, Metal Sonic, Amrun, Stubbs.

I'm beginning to think the most valuable scum are in the investigation targets if Ghostly is scum. All the more reason to keep my vote where it is.

Your reasons to not lynch anyone are just PLEASE DON'T LYNCH AMRUN!!!! I WILL GIVE A GOOD REASON LATER! The only people added (besides the deathy) were myself and Stubbs. I don't think I am going to be a wagon today. Stubbs has been tried and failed. This is purely about stopping an Amrun train.

How about hell no? You give me reasons or my vote stays right here. I don't sheep people based of ~reasons~. In the rare events I sheep, I find the reasoning sound.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:13 pm

In post 2361, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 2213, Aunt Jemina wrote:
In post 2191, Ghostly Penguin wrote:We investigated TD and got back innocent.
How convenient it is that Deathy is dead and was practically confirmed town when alive (thus probably one of the main reasons that Deathy was nightkilled).
I must re-emphasize how this investigation is about as close to a classic scum investigation as you can get.

Not true mostly because I'd be kind of dumb to make it so easily objective on the dead guy. Also, since I'm not scum or psychic, I couldn't have known TD would of been shot (and in fact, he may have not been, but his more obv Town partner Xiao).

Xiao was not the more obvitown from an objective perspective. This is BS. Even Rift and I, who disagreed for awhile on each other, both had TD as town. Many more waffled on Xiao. Xiao was not the obvitown but hearing this, it makes sense why scum probably targeted Xiao.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:14 pm

In post 2363, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 2355, Titus wrote:Yeah, I think Amrun and Ghostly are pretty much tied at the hip. Amrun seems to be the major wagon right now. Ghostly defends the crap out of Amrun and then says let's not lynch the investigation targets but doesn't say why. He says it's for reasons. Frankly, lynching Amrun would be a huge benefit in terms of finding out Ghostly's alignment IMO.

Not true because of the last vote count. There are plenty of more non-Amrun options. This one's not even subjectively true. (As in, this isn't up for debate the truth of the matter, oriole covers it in his post.)

Your claim about not lynching the investigation targets is more about protecting Amrun than any real statement. We aren't going to lynch me unless I volunteer for it and we aren't going to lynch stubbs. So you're just pleading for Amrun's life again. That's all your "reasons later" posturing is.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:25 pm

Again, this is just more pleading to keep Amrun alive so you can scum vouch for him. Why would you decide who you're checking this early in the day? Shit happens. Maybe someone scummier comes up.

There's also plenty of other people for you to check. Why do you feel wedded to checking Amrun?

That's the one thing I agree on. Rofl needs to share his results, especially if they conflict with someone. If he totally fucked up, he needs to say so. We can deal with that.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:42 pm

Right. There's still plenty of time but you're hellbent on investigating one person already without even talking to your deathy. An innocent result tells us a lot, but it's not all about you. An innocent result says that either you or Bro is NOT a sane cop. There's plenty of other options. I will vote to lynch scum, which is Amrun.

As for TD-Romeo's vote on PV. That tells me TD doesn't think an Amrun vote is the best thing at this time, instead he thinks PV is. I haven't convinced him.

Titus · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:50 pm

@Ghostly, hell if I know. That just tells me I haven't convinced TD that Amrun is a better candidate.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:52 am

@Oriole, you are supposing that based on missing evidence. Rofl has the same picture you did and voted Amrun.

Ghostly investigating Amrun tells us nothing. If Ghostly gets an inno, Ghostly could be either of the three. Without knowing which of the three Ghostly is, we have no evidence on Amrun. If Ghostly gets a guilty, we know he's sane or bussing.

If we decided no to lynch Amrun, the better action is to have Bro check me. If we're worried about paranoid/insane, I would show as guilty.

I cannot see Amrun as protown, Slandaar. Bro found him suspicious. Rofl stopped voting the agreed upon lynch based on the case. It cannot be so easily dismissed.

We have five cops. Supposing sane/insane/paranoid/naive, scum.

Ghostly is not insane. Bro is not naive. If we flip Amrun we will know if Bro is NOT sane/insane.

Then we have Bro as paranoid or sane/insane. We doubt he's scum given day 1. Bro then checks me if Amrun is guilty. His two options after Amrun flips guilty are paranoid and sane. We know which after Bro checks semi-confirmed town. If I register guilty, Bro is paranoid. If I register inno, Bro is sane.

If Amrun flips innocent (unlikely), Bro is paranoid or insane. We should have Bro check as normal then. Checking Zoidberg is a waste of info Imo.

Of course, I am not opposed to the cops checking within the deathy as well, especially if they draw at random who to check. It would help narrow down the possibilites of each cop role.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:16 am

Baezu, cops could investigate dead people (supposing that's legal) but they would lose informatiion on the living.

To settle this,

@Mod, can cops investigate the confirmed dead?

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:12 am

Ugh both Romeo and Juliet are not on the Amrun train.

Perhaps that train needs reevaluation.

@Bro, you see why Rofl shouldn't share his lead. Is there anyway you can explain that to me? I find Rofl's withholding very suspicious IMO.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:13 am

*are not = are now

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:13 am

Nevermind had it right the first time. My brain is leaving me.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:33 am

@BRO, I get your probably town but you are playing suboptimally right now. Town needs the most information it can get. I doubt you are psychic and know what Rofl actually got. If you can tell us why you want to withhold the reason from the rest of the town, I might be more understanding. Yet, reasons is typically a bad excuse.

I know I used ~reasons~ to avoid saying what I did to Tiphaine. That is because I couldn't tell the truth about their being a bomb on Tiphaine. I am not seeing a different rationale there.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:33 am

In post 2407, BROseidon wrote:
In post 2406, Ghostly Penguin wrote:The most rofl could reveal is whether you, BRO, are known paranoid
Or we can WIFOM the fuck out of this point for better long-term results.

@Ghostly, why couldn't Bro be sane?

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:52 am

@Rift, I cannot see the point in withholding though. Yeah, the information won't be lost but still, I'm not a fan of withholding for ~reasons~ unless absolutely necessary.

@Ghostly, again you are supposing that BRO cannot be insane? If you get an innocent response, then Bro's possibilities are insane/paranoid. Yet, you exclude insane. Why?

Your rationale is right on the refusal to claim, that is what worries me.

I do intend to do that reevaluation. It takes some time. I'll tell you when I am done. Patience.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:55 am

In post 2415, BROseidon wrote:
In post 2412, Ghostly Penguin wrote:BRO, what about the part where if you're confirmed to be paranoid we can get a scum result by finding the insane cop who then had to have found scum last night?
You're thinking about this in the short term. I'm thinking about it in the long-term.

My priority is not resolving this as quickly as possible, my priority is milking as much information out of this as possible.

Elaborate please.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:09 pm

In post 2420, Baezu wrote:
In post 2412, Ghostly Penguin wrote:
In post 2409, Titus wrote:
In post 2407, BROseidon wrote:
In post 2406, Ghostly Penguin wrote:The most rofl could reveal is whether you, BRO, are known paranoid
Or we can WIFOM the fuck out of this point for better long-term results.

@Ghostly, why couldn't Bro be sane?
Key word 'whether.' Based on other reads I have, I personally doubt it. It remains possible, as my reads aren't error-proof. However, if rofl reveals an innocent result,
BRO must be paranoid
.

The other thing I don't love about rofl waiting to reveal is that if he's scum, it gives him time to consult with fellow scum overnight and make an optimal claim for his faction's long-term plan. As I tend to doubt that he anticipated us narrowing down our personal sanity to sane or naive if he's scum, and so whatever fake result he might have had would need to be adjusted.

BRO, what about the part where if you're confirmed to be paranoid we can get a scum result by finding the insane cop who then had to have found scum last night?

--Penguin
If BRO is confirmed paranoid, scum would probably not need to kill him since results he gets are all the same. I'm not sure why confirming BRO as paranoid is so troublesome to rofl. The only reason I can see for holding out is scum-motivated, but up until now I haven't seen rofl as scum. In fact, I still don't think he's scum. I'd like to wrap my head around why rofl is waiting and also why BRO is encouraging that.

I cannot understand that Bro/rofl action paradigm. However, Ghostly's statements implying about Bro not being sane suggest to me that Ghostly is trying to position himself as the sane cop.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:16 pm

How about an explanation that explains that the deathy must have naive/paranoid/sane and insane? Why is that a given? I've never played with a deathy before.

Bro may be the only paranoid one, but you're jumping the gun by assuming he is.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:47 pm

Lynching Amrun would do a whole lot as we'd have a confirmed piece of the puzzle. I can also state that Slandaar cannot be insane. Most should eliminate that possibility due to TD saying we are confirmed town.

That leaves Bro/rofl/ms as insane. Let's suppose for a moment that rofl got a guilty on Amrun. In order for Amrun to be innocent, then both Bro/rofl would have to be paranoid AND insane. Lynching Amrun confirms that for the deathy. Yet revealing that might cause scum to abandon their teammate.

If Amrun flips innocent, then Stubbs is guilty.

So let's suppose the other way.

Rofl checked Amrun and got an innocent. Bro is the only guilty and confirmed paranoid.

That leaves MS and Rofl as the possible insane. Remember, Ghostly cannot be insane and I know that Slandaar is not insane. If Rofl and MS are the possible insane, then either Amrun or Stubbs is guilty. Rofl votes Amrun supposing he's insane.

Basically, this analysis confirms that either Stubbs is guilty or Amrun is IMO.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:47 pm

I don't need to know rofl's results, but I need to know whether rofl checked Amrun for the above to apply.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Yes. That seems accurate. Bro/rofl/ms must be insane. If Stubbs is innocent, then ms is not insane. Therefore, Bro or rofl is insane. The other must be paranoid due to process of elimination.

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:22 pm

His vote on you and the lack of announcing suggest he checked you. Setting that aside the analysis is still valid.

I know Ghostly and Slandaar cannot be insane.

This means one of bro/rofl/ms must be insane. If ms is insane, then Stubbs is guilty. Then bro must be paranoid/sane/scum. Rofl can be anything.

If Bro is insane, then rofl must be paranoid (and therefore got a guilty). That leaves ms as naive/scum.

If rofl is insane, that leave Bro as paranoid and ms is naive scum.

ROFL, are you willing to reveal, without mentioning the target, whether you got an innocent or a guilty?

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:23 pm

**MS is naive/sane/scum when I said naive/scum

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:00 pm

Why is that bad?

Titus · Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:14 am

In post 2450, Metal Sonic wrote:ok what is going on now

lets just lynch amrun JUST BECAUSE

muffin is really good btw but just to eliminate scum possibility once we get our dethy working someone needs to check him

Sonic, you should check him, deathy working or not. We can retroactively figure out what the alignment should be if you're usual. If not, it didn't matter who you checked.

Titus · Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:29 am

Checking him helps determine things faster. If you are naive, you should check people until we are certain of all roles in the deathy.

Titus · Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:36 am

@Natirasha, if you feel your arguments are not getting across, try setting them up in terms of premise, premise, conclusion. If you cannot, the argument has a flaw. If you can, people can discuss your premises and have to look at the premises rather than accepting or discounting without understanding.

Titus · Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:53 am

@Stubbs, what do you think of the Amrun case? What is your read on him?

Heck, who are your scum suspects given the flips?

Titus · Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:56 pm

Interesting, why is PV town? PoE?

Titus · Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:00 pm

You do realize you've said the equivalent of "I know you're wrong because I won't vote my scum buddy right?" if rofl is right and you and amrun are scum.

Titus · Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:08 pm

Considering you think Amrun is town, who would you go with as the scums?

Titus · Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:44 pm

The game is moving slow. It's like anyone who isn't in the deathy stopped posting.

@Mod, please prod who needs to be prodded.

Titus · Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:25 pm

I'm seeing people like AJ and Baezu not posting. BRO is V/LA until Monday so yeah that makes sense why he hasn't posted.

I am beginning to think either a) Amrun is scum and people are afraid to chainsaw or b) neither of the trains are scum and scum are happy and feel no need to contribute. I really don't think b but I post it to foreclose anything not certain.

Titus · Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:01 pm

Yeah. Those are the main posts. I didn't wall up Amrun's attempts to break up the TD/myself/Xiao block. I feel that's very important though.

Titus · Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:40 pm

@Stubbs, good thing you mentioned that you need a reread. 1 scum is off.

@Rift Adrift, Biggest nonsense contributor, don't think so. I've been the biggest presenter of the case against Amrun and that it shifted your read isn't nonsense at all.

@Baezu, I'm really not liking that sheep.

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:05 am

@Slandaar, if my memory serves me right A has just been sheeping you. Players that agree with you that much should be pushed to see if they have legitimate thoughts. You should look to see if there's buddying. I have a hard time believing you saw 4 major trains the exact same way.

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:52 am

In post 2566, StubbsKVM wrote:Nati, you're going to have to do some explaining on that Chocolate Zombie claim. What's the flavor that goes with that role?

I missed that. Sounds like someone decided to make a role if this game and walking dead had a baby.

@Amrun, I basically said that first. Yet, you attack Rofl?

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:16 pm

RA, The claim seems consistent with the Bastard Modding. Yet, I still don't know what Chocolate Zombie does. It also halfway sounds like a joke.

Amrun

1) Slandaar read me as scum in the thread before you did. He also backed off first.
2) S says Baezu is scum in 415 and again in 918. A says the Baezu wagon is good in 509 but he's emotionally attached to me.
3) S votes Bro in 1547, A has Bro as scum (without reason in 1486), votes in 1662
4 - 5) Both Slandaar and Amrun both seem to think Zoidberg is town preflip. Slandaar doesn't post his shock at Amrun's hammer, nor any change in Zoidberg's behavior. I find that odd. As for Amrun, I don't believe the Zoidberg turn was genuine.

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Minor edit to 4-5) Slandaar does comment on the Zoidberg post and Amrun's belief is pretty much copied from that.

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:34 pm

I want to hear from YOU why they did it. From YOUR point of view, 3 town and 1 scum now found you scummier than the prior day. If they didn't state why, why aren't you curious as to the why? Was the shift town-led or scum-led?
You are the only Dethy hydra, so I'd expect 2x the opinions on each dethy player.

PV, who are the players you are referring to.

@Amrun, yeah that's pretty logical IMO. You see a town accuse a scum. You jump on. You fight to make sure the train doesn't turn.

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:35 pm

Edit, you see town accuse someone who is NOT a scum.